Guild Wars 2

Im not 1 to moan and i don’t want flaming. Im loving Gw2 its a breath of fresh air. But 5 man instances are a little small.

I know we can do open world events but its not really skilled based its all about the more players the easier it is.

Can we have maybe a hardcore mode of instances that require 10 men. I don’t care about stats maybe a nice econic armor to show off that we did the harder instances. (happy medium) that way no one has an advantage we jus get bragging rights on a cool style. ?

I am in quiet a large guild and i know alot of us would like to take on hard instances together in our own little battle rather than 60+ players zerging a boss

Keep up the good work Anet loving the game

mentalist.3120:

Im not 1 to moan and i don’t want flaming. Im loving Gw2 its a breath of fresh air. But 5 man instances are a little small.

I know we can do open world events but its not really skilled based its all about the more players the easier it is.

Can we have maybe a hardcore mode of instances that require 10 men. I don’t care about stats maybe a nice econic armor to show off that we did the harder instances. (happy medium) that way no one has an advantage we jus get bragging rights on a cool style. ?

I am in quiet a large guild and i know alot of us would like to take on hard instances together in our own little battle rather than 60+ players zerging a boss

Keep up the good work Anet loving the game

God I hope raids never make it into this game. Nothing like 10 people zerging a boss down.

I’d rather see it remain skill based.

It’s okay 2 out of the 8 are still alive so the boss hasn’t reset so just run back…

What I’d rather see is a harder mode added than requires a well organized team of skilled players to complete.

I don’t see why you think a 10 man instance couldn’t be skill based as well. We had large instances in GW1 that were skill and build based and they were fun and engaging.

I would enjoy a higher difficulty level of 5 mans as well.

We can only dream, I know most players would love 10 man dungeons that were a real challenging, it would add so much to the game.

It’s okay 2 out of the 8 are still alive so the boss hasn’t reset so just run back…

Really? That’s a terrible reason as to why there should not be larger instances in the game. Just make it so you cannot run back. Lock the door when the fight starts or make the boss reset when people re-enter.

I’m sure a 10-man version of the same explorable dungeon could work. Anet could place more mobs or tack on some kind of gimmick to a certain boss so it is more difficult to “zerg” it. You can’t just increase the maximum party size and simply get away with it. With that said, I’m sure the accessibility of said raids would allow lower level players to enjoy the content as well. For example, you would have to be level 40 or higher to participate in the raid version of Ascalonian Catacombs versus level 35 for the 5-man Explorable version. That means that your level will be scaled down to 40, just like how you’re scaled to 35 for explorables.

what interesting things could 10 dps do that 5 cant do? the whole reason they didn’t add large group content is the inability to make hard content that isn’t trivialized be retraining or isnt the same handful of gimmicks, that anet has abused so far in exploreables.

ah, discussion of 10 dps tactic isn’t as elite kitten showing off ASIDES, i think having bigger instances would make this game more guild orientated and more fun. Right now dynamic events are kinda impersonal and not exactly an exciting activity to rally your guild around. But 5 man groups are really small, so we fall back into our little statics. A compromise would be nice. Having a larger instance that lets more people in to work together, (but not so insane hard that we have to be elitist against all 10 people.) A instance makes us do a guild call to hop in! (anyone played Atlantica Online? like the guild based dungeons in there. You buy the key to open the instance, and it opens it for the whole guild.)

10 man instances would make this game better than WoW.Word.They could make this and make the game sooo much better.

Another thing they will, thankfully, not do. To limit it to 5man is a conscious design decision that is a main reason why many people – if not the majority – bought this game.

That it is not a raiding game and has no raiding content is a selling point, guys. Sorry for that, but that’s the way it is.

This game won’t become your WoW killer. This is not the point of it. Wanna raid? Go back there. It’s designed around it. GW2 thankfully is not and never will be, which makes it a better game.

ah, discussion of 10 dps tactic isn’t as elite kitten showing off ASIDES, i think having bigger instances would make this game more guild orientated and more fun. Right now dynamic events are kinda impersonal and not exactly an exciting activity to rally your guild around. But 5 man groups are really small, so we fall back into our little statics. A compromise would be nice. Having a larger instance that lets more people in to work together, (but not so insane hard that we have to be elitist against all 10 people.) A instance makes us do a guild call to hop in! (anyone played Atlantica Online? like the guild based dungeons in there. You buy the key to open the instance, and it opens it for the whole guild.)

Hit nail on head im on about guild based things whats point having large guild when all u can do large is open world events ? we need more guild orientated things

Another thing they will, thankfully, not do. To limit it to 5man is a conscious design decision that is a main reason why many people – if not the majority – bought this game.

That it is not a raiding game and has no raiding content is a selling point, guys. Sorry for that, but that’s the way it is.

This game won’t become your WoW killer. This is not the point of it. Wanna raid? Go back there. It’s designed around it. GW2 thankfully is not and never will be, which makes it a better game.

Im not on about raiding im on about more than just 5 man instances. I dont care about stats we have to farm im just putting out there. Bigger instances for group content not jus world events where 500 people can dps a boss.

Hence reason i said just make a nice armour sod the stats jus a armour to show commitment.

IM all for the new era of MMO GW2 it lets every lvl of player in im just saying 5 man is not enough

Zefiris.8297:

Another thing they will, thankfully, not do. To limit it to 5man is a conscious design decision that is a main reason why many people – if not the majority – bought this game.

That it is not a raiding game and has no raiding content is a selling point, guys. Sorry for that, but that’s the way it is.

This game won’t become your WoW killer. This is not the point of it. Wanna raid? Go back there. It’s designed around it. GW2 thankfully is not and never will be, which makes it a better game.

It fits in perfectly with the design. We have small groups in the form of dungeons and large group world events so it makes perfect sense to make a middle ground, medium group sized content. Also GW1 had 12 man dungeons, so why is GW2 not allowed to have more than 5 man?

What this comes down to is you not liking a type of content and then saying it should not be in the game because you don’t want to do it. Most players would love for it to be added and would get a lot of fun from it but as long as you don’t want to do something, others should not be allowed to. Your enjoyment of the game wouldn’t change at all if it was added, but many’s would increase. It saddens me to see this kind of comment, different people enjoy different things and i’ll never understand why some people cannot accept that.

Here’s the deal, if you make 10 man dungeons give out rewards that can’t be obtained in 5 man dungeons you just kitten off the majority of your player base that specifically came here to get away from quest hub and raid centric MMO’s.

If you make a 10 man dungeon give the same rewards given out in 5 man dungeons then you just created a situation where a ton of people will complain because they feel they should be rewarded more for doing 10 man dungeons.

So it’s a lose, lose.

Aside from that one of the things Anet itself promoted was the fact it didn’t have raids, as another poster above stated it’s a selling point in the game.

What it comes down to is the above, you open that door and it’s lose, lose for all.

mentalist.3120:

Here’s the deal, if you make 10 man dungeons give out rewards that can’t be obtained in 5 man dungeons you just kitten off the majority of your player base that specifically came here to get away from quest hub and raid centric MMO’s.

If you make a 10 man dungeon give the same rewards given out in 5 man dungeons then you just created a situation where a ton of people will complain because they feel they should be rewarded more for doing 10 man dungeons.

So it’s a lose, lose.

Aside from that one of the things Anet itself promoted was the fact it didn’t have raids, as another poster above stated it’s a selling point in the game.

What it comes down to is the above, you open that door and it’s lose, lose for all.

How is it loose loose for all

what im putting across is just have the same instances same loot just 10 man some of us like to go in a bigger group.

You all come back with same comment anet said this its not about that its about making the game appealing for everyone i understand they made the game casual im not saying i want elite stuff im saying make it appeal to the larger guild audience.

when you have a guild of 100 people and you wanna do stuff that’s challenging only option is open world where another 100 or so people can join in.

You have 5 man why cant we have 10 man ?

it wont be hard to implement another 5 people instance. We have casual in our guild i don’t want people to be left out i want bigger group content i that we can play as a challenge to our guild all involved
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i don’t think by far that the 5 man dungeons are the ultimate pve situation.

Its clear that they’ll be releasing more content. Else, you can basically finish the whole game in less than 6 months.

@GrayGhost.6857

… And that would be the part needs to be addressed. The philosophies behind GW2 are radically different than conventional MMOs and should be respected somehow. I think most if those philosophies can still be respected even with the inclusion of instanced raid content. I’m currently formulating a heavy posting of my ideas and ways how raids could work in GW2. I don’t believe some of things are ‘etched in stone’ and is subject to change over the course of the life of this game. Stuff like downscaling of levels and easily accessable max-stat gear are here to stay, but I’m sure certain philosophies may evolve over time to accomodate new features and content. If an inclusion of something causes someone to leave, then that’s because of the choice of the player.

I can only speak for myself so I’ll say this— I hate sPVP. But do I already hate GW2 because of it to the point that it makes me want to leave the game? Nope. Similar deal in GW1 where there was a section for other parts of PvP— I rarely ever participated in it but I still played GW1 because I enjoyed doing the missions, vanquishing hard mode challenges, and customizing my heroes. I’m still playing GW2 because I like doing the dungeons, going after most of the achievements, experiencing the personal story, and customizing my characters. If Anet added raids, it wouldn’t change my opinion of the game. I might try the content out, but if I don’t like it, then there are other things that will keep me occupied in Tyria. Likewise, if Anet added more modes in sPVP, it wouldn’t affect me because I don’t play that kind of PvP.

With that said, instanced raiding in GW2 would have to a unique experience compared to most MMOs out there. The encounters should require some form coordination from the leader and would have to rely less on Zerg-like tactics, but it should also be accessible so that more players can experience the challenges that an instance raid can provide over the Group Events that are experienced in the outside world. It should also be uniquely rewarding. If anything, the gear obtained from raids should be aesthetically (not statistically) better than Exotic but lower Legendary. How do you measure “aesthetically better”? More shiny bits with sparkles, spikes, and smoke? Honestly, that would be up to the player to figure out.

I am not sure what the difference would be between 5 man dungeons and 10 man dungeons. In guild wars 2 it would all end up basically the same except hp/dmg values.

Best thing about 10 mans is that you can take more friends. It becomes much more of a guild run with 10 than with 5. What are guilds supposed to do in this game outside of WvW? I think Arenanet had so much trouble with groups forming in GW1 that it went overboard making it convenient in GW2 – no trinity, only 5 needed, easy dungeons, no lockouts etc.

Ari Kagura.9182:

@GrayGhost.6857

If anything, the gear obtained from raids should be aesthetically (not statistically) better than Exotic but lower Legendary. How do you measure “aesthetically better”? More shiny bits with sparkles, spikes, and smoke? Honestly, that would be up to the player to figure out.

And here we have an example to counter what others have said. Some have said it’s fine to have no increased or special reward, I said those wanting the raids are going to want and expect “special” rewards and low and behold…

I enjoy the dungeons, I want more variety and chances for more difficulty. I simply can’t support the raids though. It goes against the games core principles. If you want something like this I’d support open world dungeons with unique DE’s and world bosses that could be initiated by “rituals” or other triggers.

And again if added players that do the raids are going to want and expect better rewards and those that prefer to steer clear of the raids due to preference or due to not belonging to a guild that does them are going to feel shafted.

In one of the developer Q&As/videos, one of the reasons given for having dungeons no larger than 5 man was so that personal contribution is not watered down. The more people participating, the less you as an individual matters, and this is not how they wanted the dungeon experience to be.

I really appreciate that, because my favorite content in MMO games involves difficult small group content. I’ve done and lead 10, 12, 25, 40, 100+ man raids (on a server-first/top guild in several games) and I really just prefer 3-6 man content that requires great teamwork as opposed to having the bulk of difficulty be managing people. The larger the raid, the more you come into the 80/20 rule (20% of the players do 80% of the work) and get people showing up playing half-aware, watching the sports game, not wanting to show up for progression but reap the rewards once it’s on farm, etc. and it gets old.

That said, I really hope that at some point Arenanet will add challenge dungeons for blisteringly hard content that actually requires some thought and planning for team builds and play that won’t allow rez zerging.

Just make some of those rewards Bound on Use. Using GW1 for example, a party of 8 could bust their butt through Domain of Anguish for Anguish Gemstones and trade in those with for an Armbrace of Truth, allowing them to purchase prestigious-looking weapons, and Armor Remnants (for upgrading the look of Heroes) that could be traded to other players. If players were willing to fork over the cash to buy that stuff, then they could have that same look as well without going through all the trouble in busting some big purple Margonite ape just for some fancy-looking weapons. The buyer is a winner because they spent their gold on what they think was “worth it”, while those who ran the content in question are also winners because they gain a profit from selling stuff that they might not be able to use. In GW2’s case, some might be tempted to burn real-world money in the Gem Store just to obtain the gold to buy such items … Not me of course, but just saying in a business standpoint.

With that said, the loot in question should have a high “vendor” value— this would be ANet’s initial suggestion of how much these items should be when placed in the Trading Post. Those who beat the content first could set their prices appropriately and market prices could go high or low from there. Eventually, the price would normalize itself once enough people have cleared the content.

I personally find that the more you increase the number of people in an encounter, the less the contribution of an individual actually matters. In a five man party my contribution matter, when I use a CC ability that has an impact, when I’m one of the few who didn’t get downed, that becomes very important, when I res a downed player that is important. My individual DPS is important (not to mention I use bleeds which will become garbage in bigger groups). I don’t understand how bigger groups = tougher content. My experience with this game so far has been that bigger groups = brain-dead content.

GW1 had an eight member party limit (and a couple 12 man dungeons) and the game was easily run with seven people. I’ve had countless runs when we dropped up to four people and we were able to complete content fine. Hero builds were tested with a player with no skills on their bar at all, just the heroes doing all the work, and most hero builds show no difference between seven heroes alone or working with the player, that’s how trivial individuals become when you increase the numbers of people present. Urgoz’s Warren and the Deep were 12 man dungeons which these days are run by a player and seven heroes.

The only thing I see coming from increasing party caps for some dungeons is to create even more barriers and road blocks to players accessing this content, especially given the problems finding a group for dungeons as it is. The biggest difficulty becomes finding a group for a content, not the content itself, and to me that’s garbage game design. I never want to see that. There are plenty of ways to create difficult content without resorting to making grouping the biggest challenge.

But then, isnt the whole game a little short if you just leave it right here? As I said, what takes you to go through the whole game? 4, 5 months playing a couple hours a day? In november im pretty sure that i’ll have done everything i can except for the legendary that im not interested in because im not a hardcore player, which means i’ll just have sPvP and WvW.

Sirevanac.3178:

But then, isnt the whole game a little short if you just leave it right here? As I said, what takes you to go through the whole game? 4, 5 months playing a couple hours a day? In november im pretty sure that i’ll have done everything i can except for the legendary that im not interested in because im not a hardcore player, which means i’ll just have sPvP and WvW.

Nearly every MMO will have people who blow through “all” (that is, all they care to do) content of any launch or expansion within a week to a month, then you get people with more limited play times who take longer.

For example, a friend of mine who only cares about vertical progression leveled as fast as he could to 80, then chain ran CoF Magg when it was easier than any storymode dungeon to get his gear. Once he had his gear, that was it, he was done with the game and bored. I asked if he ran any other dungeons and he said no, he had his gear. I asked if he even tried Keg Brawl. Nope, no point, there are no rewards for it. He doesn’t PvP at all, ever. Doesn’t play alts or craft unless forced. What was funny was, he was helping a friend of his get some gear by running CoF Magg again after it was modified the first time. He complained to me that the bomb timer event was impossible and broken! I told him to kill the smoke lords first, and he didn’t even know what a smoke lord was or did and he had run that dungeon chain at least 70 times before…

Meanwhile, I have 3 geared 80s, have 2 of them nearly to 100% map completion and do every DE I haven’t seen yet along the way (avoiding getting the star for now for PvP purposes as it’s seen through walls and not replicated on mesmer clones), play both aspects of PvP, actually enjoy doing dungeons when they are NOT being cheesed just for the dungeons themselves, am having fun figuring out MF recipes, all crafts at 400 and I generally don’t like crafting, and seek out cosmetic gear just for kicks. I’m still not bored with the game.

My point being different players will get different amounts of enjoyment and content from the game based on their own playstyle. Even if you only get 4-5 months of play for 2 hours a day, that’s approximately 250 hours which is still a lot of content, without including the never ending PvP aspect.

Remember The Deep or Urgoz? You need 12 people for it and it was justified because the design of the place requires it. Same idea here about having 8 or 10 man teams. If they want to design an instance that requires 8 or 10 people teams, I don’t see the problem.

Perhaps in expansions, kinda like how they added 12 man dungeons in Factions.

Don’t see why people are against this, I mean 10man dungeons would open up plenty of possibilities and dungeon mechanics that were not available before. It will also boost guild interaction because large group of players will be needed for these dungeons, unlike the 5-man dungeons where most people PuG it, except Arah maybe.

Given the mechanics of the classes, instead dungeons should be # of participant scaleable. Bring in any number from 5-25 and the dungeon scales in difficulty based upon the incoming number of players.