Guild Wars 2

…if most of the bosses have very painfull attacks reserved for punishing of the cowardly ranged toons?

You can use ranged weapon at melee range.

Anet needs to take a look at dungeons, every dungeon path there is, and adjust every little boss fight according to feedback. PvE needs changes. Silver Mobs, Bosses, AI (would be the biggest and maybe the most needed change) and when dungeons aren’t SKIP TO BOSS, KILL BOSS, LOOT CHEST, fix the balance in PvE. This is hard because they try to keep PvE, PvP and WvW all balanced at the same time.. I hope they realize that’s an impossible task (unless they’re fine with build diversity being futile in one area (it already is in PvE but they’re nerfing Berserker so let’s see what happens..)).

force = mass x acceleration (speed over a distance) -(resisting forces)
a big sword swung at a short distance means if its swung fast enough it will deal alot of damage – no resistance force slowing it down.

a small arrow/bullet fired from a gun although moing faster travels a longer distance and has to take into accound, gravity and wind changing its direction and slowing it down.
scientifically speaking they should be weapker

Risk vs reward. Melee are rewarded with higher dps because they are in direct range of enemy attacks and are taking hits as well. Vs the range who can sit at 1200 and stand still firing away without a care in the world

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Risk vs reward. Melee are rewarded with higher dps because they are in direct range of enemy attacks and are taking hits as well. Vs the range who can sit at 1200 and stand still firing away without a care in the world

Maybe if PvE was designed more carefully but it hasn’t been touched in forever.

Who would ever run melee if they could have the same burst potential and dps at a range? It makes sense. As the poster above said, risk versus reward.

Pew pew can’t ever be as powerful as slash slash if the game was actually going to be balanced…

Ranged weapons aren’t necessarily worse. Elementalist staff and engineer grenades are both the highest DPS option available.

I use my greatsword as much as possible, then at 10% health or when i’m in trouble i dodge backwards and change to bow, firing a lot of arrows while my heal skills recover.

As said above: being melee is a risk, being ranged is usually safer. Swapping to ranged in mid-combat and going melee again once recovered it’s something that most PvE players do while soloing champions/veterans.

less risk while using ranged weapon in most cases, doh

Knaifhogg.5964:

Anet needs to take a look at dungeons, every dungeon path there is, and adjust every little boss fight according to feedback. PvE needs changes. Silver Mobs, Bosses, AI (would be the biggest and maybe the most needed change) and when dungeons aren’t SKIP TO BOSS, KILL BOSS, LOOT CHEST, fix the balance in PvE. This is hard because they try to keep PvE, PvP and WvW all balanced at the same time.. I hope they realize that’s an impossible task (unless they’re fine with build diversity being futile in one area (it already is in PvE but they’re nerfing Berserker so let’s see what happens..)).

Nonsense! Just nerf all the classes. Take away utilities and armor. All classes can only use sticks! That will make it fun and exciting! It’s the new meta. Nerfway ftw!

Arc DLad.2194:

force = mass x acceleration (speed over a distance) -(resisting forces)
a big sword swung at a short distance means if its swung fast enough it will deal alot of damage – no resistance force slowing it down.

a small arrow/bullet fired from a gun although moing faster travels a longer distance and has to take into accound, gravity and wind changing its direction and slowing it down.
scientifically speaking they should be weapker

All wrong, mate. The air drag is a factor, but really not very significant.
If you want to talk real world, the effect of a weapon on human body (called terminal ballistic for firearm) is what is interesting.

A sword / knife slash results in a major blood loss and the wounded fighter will lose consciousnes fast enough. Also with a proper sword cut you can maim or even decapitate (meisterhau zwerch in german swordfighting school).

OTOH arrow / slow bullet or stabbing wounds will more likely kill the wounded person, but it will take time. The important factor here is a hit to vitals and depth of penetration. Internal bleeding will most likely occur.

From combat point of view it is just harder to hit a human sized target with arrow or even firearm at distance (namely if the target is moving) than with a melee weapon.
Melee attack can be parried or blocked, or even evaded (even the fast stabbing attack, like in sport fencing) but this apply mostly for one to one duels. In a skirmish situation with more combatants on each side it’s a different matter.

So if you want to differentiate melee and ranged combat and want to keep it close to real world, it should look like that:

Ranged attack can easily miss, unless you are very skilled, and can be blocked with shields, and the slower the projectile the harder to hit a moving target.

Melee attack can be blocked or parried, sometimes evaded, but seldom miss, and you are almost guaranteed to hit a flanked or unsuspecting target, however shield blocks your field of vision and an adversary with a longer blade can attack yout legs, also an axe or battle hammer can destroy the shield if you just block and not deflect (see duel descriptions in Icelandic sagas – 10th century, or Morte d’Arthur – 15th century).

Any wound causes immediate bleeding, but cuting or crushing melee damage can do more structural damage. Stabs are about the same as ranged wounds.

Skilled meleer can do significantly more damage than newbie swordsman, because he knows how to cut straight. Ranged attack works the same for master or newbie.

And one most important difference – ranged weapons have a limited ammo supply. Arrows can be recovered, but not all of them. This is the main disadvantage of a ranged weapon, which makes a melee backup weapon viable even in modern times (combat knives, bayonettes). A medieval archer carried 42 arrows into a battle… together with sword, hatchet, knife or a big maul used originally for hammering of protective stakes, but it also worked nicely in combat.

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Risk vs reward.

Not really. Try do to alpha or AC spider or any other boss at a distance and you will see the risk vs. reward. As said earlier, almost every boss have a special punishment for ranged guys… so no, your risk is about the same.
Only advantage you have at range is the overview of battlefield, you can see what is happening better and it allows you to evade easier, than if stacked. Also if you keep moving and kite the mob, you are more likely to escape slow aoes.

I think that the proper way how to “balance” melee and ranged is to make it more “real” – and use ammo for ranged weapons. And the damage should be the same.

Firearms should do higher damage with 100% ammo loss, bows shall do less damage (about as much as stabbing attacks) with some chance to recover arrows from body or battlefield.

Wethospu.6437:

You can use ranged weapon at melee range.

That’s right. And it should make you more vulnerable. Just imagine a swordsman and an archer face to face. Bows are pretty fragile, namely the good bows, and the most fragile part is so called back, the side which is facing away from archer and to the potential threat. A single scratch on bows back can result in a break. So the first cut goes through the bow and the bow arm, the other finishes the archer. Before he manages to touch an arrow.

Using a ranged weapon in melee should destroy or heavily damage the ranged weapon, and make the ranged fighter a very soft target.

Fext.3614:

Wethospu.6437:

You can use ranged weapon at melee range.

That’s right. And it should make you more vulnerable. Just imagine a swordsman and an archer face to face. Bows are pretty fragile, namely the good bows, and the most fragile part is so called back, the side which is facing away from archer and to the potential threat. A single scratch on bows back can result in a break. So the first cut goes through the bow and the bow arm, the other finishes the archer. Before he manages to touch an arrow.

Using a ranged weapon in melee should destroy or heavily damage the ranged weapon, and make the ranged fighter a very soft target.

They should apply that mechanic to the game, that way we would stop seeing rangers using longbow when the group is stacking, or mesmers using greatsword in the same situation.

Fext.3614:

Not really. Try do to alpha or AC spider or any other boss at a distance and you will see the risk vs. reward. As said earlier, almost every boss have a special punishment for ranged guys… so no, your risk is about the same.
Only advantage you have at range is the overview of battlefield, you can see what is happening better and it allows you to evade easier, than if stacked. Also if you keep moving and kite the mob, you are more likely to escape slow aoes.

I think that the proper way how to “balance” melee and ranged is to make it more “real” – and use ammo for ranged weapons. And the damage should be the same.

Firearms should do higher damage with 100% ammo loss, bows shall do less damage (about as much as stabbing attacks) with some chance to recover arrows from body or battlefield.

Spider queen is faceroll at distance and a bit harder in melee.

Arc DLad.2194:

force = mass x acceleration (speed over a distance) -(resisting forces)
a big sword swung at a short distance means if its swung fast enough it will deal alot of damage – no resistance force slowing it down.

a small arrow/bullet fired from a gun although moing faster travels a longer distance and has to take into accound, gravity and wind changing its direction and slowing it down.
scientifically speaking they should be weapker

Actually they wouldn’t be weaker since you have to factor in the amount of force that is being applied to push that projectile at say 900fps. An example is an arrow which would be the same type of attack as say a dagger or sword being thrust forward. There is no way a human will thrust a sword forward at 900fps. Downward even with gravity and the weight of the weapon working in the humans favor, I still dont see a 900fps. Now this for edged weapons or projectiles.

Now if you look at a bullet, those do most of their dmg from shock and fragmenting or tumbling within a body. Since adult humans are made up of about 50-60% water, a heavy grained bullet would create a huge shock to the body(think of a rock dropped in a lake) with all the ripples and then factor in if that bullet is a hollowpoint which mushrooms on hitting thuse creating even more surface area and the copper jacket fragmenting and with all the sharp edges cutting blood vessels, a bullet can actually do more dmg than a smaller sharp dagger or sword assuming you aren’t aiming for a specific body part like the heart or brain with said dagger or sword.

And finally swinging a sword at short distance actually would yield less penetration than if you got hit with it towards the end of its stroke when it has built up the most momentum and force.

And to sum it up, in the end, would you rather be hit with a small rock traveling at 1000fps or a boulder traveling at 500fps? Both will kill you.

And they can’t apply the mechanics/physics of ranged projectiles to accuracy in a game because if they did, you could 1 shot kill people from 100+ yards easily without them even knowing if you were hiding or even if they saw you out that far, they could not dodge a small hard to see projectile traveling and 900+fps. By the time you heard the crack of the gun, that bullet has already reached you.

very true, hmm ok let me make a senario.
2 fighters identical in all ways except 1 has a rifle other has a great sword and the both attack tequatel ( or any boss) at the same time. which attack would make him go ouch.

Arc DLad.2194:

very true, hmm ok let me make a senario.
2 fighters identical in all ways except 1 has a rifle other has a great sword and the both attack tequatel ( or any boss) at the same time. which attack would make him go ouch.

neither

Fext.3614:

…if most of the bosses have very painfull attacks reserved for punishing of the cowardly ranged toons?

Ranged weapons are weaker than melee in this weapons because ArenaNet has not figured out another method of keeping both weapons balanced in a PvP environment. This game’s balance mostly revolves around PvP, while the game’s content mostly builds on PvE. I find it a somewhat odd arrangement.

TheKillerAngel.3596:

Fext.3614:

…if most of the bosses have very painfull attacks reserved for punishing of the cowardly ranged toons?

Ranged weapons are weaker than melee in this weapons because ArenaNet has not figured out another method of keeping both weapons balanced in a PvP environment. This game’s balance mostly revolves around PvP, while the game’s content mostly builds on PvE. I find it a somewhat odd arrangement.

It’s actually for both pve and pvp. They decided that given the choice between two equal options players would choose the ranged option due to safety and constant dps rather than the more dangerous melee and needing to close distance (resulting in dps loss). Perhaps they overtuned it towards melee, but I don’t really think so. Once you know the mechanics of the fight melee is the superior option in pve, but in fresh content that you don’t know the mechanics of many people choose to range.

guanlongwucaii.3162:

Arc DLad.2194:

very true, hmm ok let me make a senario.
2 fighters identical in all ways except 1 has a rifle other has a great sword and the both attack tequatel ( or any boss) at the same time. which attack would make him go ouch.

neither

I don’t know why this reply made me spit tea out of my nose.

ranged weapons aren’t necessarily weaker, but there if they are i believe the reason is:
you can use ranged weapons in melee
you cant use melee weapons at range.

roachsrealm.9284:

ranged weapons aren’t necessarily weaker, but there if they are i believe the reason is:
you can use ranged weapons in melee
you cant use melee weapons at range.

They are 100 percent confirmed as weaker.
Thus your first statement is wrong.
And your third statement is sometimes wrong (guardian sword 3 is a ranged attack as an expample).
Your second statement is merely inefficient.