Guild Wars 2

attended one of those ‘training’ raid things that are apparently a thing. since i wanted to just try out a raid and see what the big deal was.

Upon joining they asked me which class i was playing…i said warrior. And then they were all on about how they probably have too many warriors (3-4 ttl), and that they needed tempests. I asked them why it mattered and they harped on about how they wanted to get to show everyone the final part of the raid. Then they suddenly said "ty "name"" and kicked me.

So…….just kinda flabberghasted by that. Supposed to be training…for fun and learning and kicks. Regardless of how good a player I am though i’m not allowed to join cause I’m a warrior…? isn’t the goal of raids to do as much damage as possible within a timelimit? warriors don’t do damage? tehy don’t provide daamge for the team? they don’t tank? they don’t have condi? like….screw ur meta its training and i want to play. As long as I’m a good player and running a fully geared char I should be allowed to play in a training session….no? i feel i got kicked cause other players are inadequate at fighting…and they need supports and the proper meta so everyone can get away with pressing ‘1’ to win.

I mean is that really good design to create a game where to play in the different modes you have to have multiple chars and classes? thought the point of hot was to expand on each class so they each fill enough roles that they can be relevant in any part of the game.

tldr: Mentors are lame if that’s how this has got to go down.

If you could get away with just pressing 1 with the proper support there wouldn’t be as many people complaining about raids being too hard for “casuals”.

Anet has stated that composition does matter in raids and the group you tried to join probably wanted to have a chance at killing the boss, even if it was a training run. Warriors are actually in a good position right now for raids since you want to have 2 PS to buff your party. However, they are also very limited to the 2 due to not doing the most damage so you need to expand your character pool if you want to fit in groups more consistently. Eles, druids and chronotanks are all in high demand.

Mentors teaching you how to complete the raid, you ignore them and want 9 other players to fail. You’re a real victim.

As a 23 year old male who just finished university, I’ve never been more worried about the state of our world when the smallest of things constantly offend people.

Because raids are just bad designed other forms of “dungeons” with just this time 10 instead of 5 people….

You follow just a trail and have to beat on the trail 3 bosses to get the reward..its exactly like a dungeon..nothing new.
When people asked for raids, they wanted something NEW and not warmed up old coffee with just increased number of players that can play it together.

Thats mainly the problem, why people complain about raids and especially because the raids are in that regard bad designed, because they favor specific class builds to the point, that they and just only they become so mandatory, that you need them, otherwise you will fail because of the lack of DPS and this braindead stupid timer in the background that forces you and your party to go for full DPS, otherwise you will fail because of the bosses becoming quickly too powerful so that they can one hit kill you….

Thats imo far far faaaar away from good game design in my opinion and absolutely not what I understand under a Raid.

For me is a Raid Game Content in an ever with each instance changing environment (Dungeon Crawler Style) that you play with like 20-50 people together so that you form a real Squad and not just only a larger groop, so that there is absolutely more than space enough, that you can take people from every class with you who wants to join your Raid Squad for the run that is then organized in like 2-10 Groups max
(2×10, or 4×5 or 10×5 or 5×10 people in regard how many peiople are maximum allowed to come into the Raid Section you want to play (part of the difficulty setting, so higher the difficulty, so lesser people may come with you, but so bigger are the rewards for everyone)

In a Raid you don’t fight just threee bosses and be done with it… in a raid you fight unendless hordes of monsters and bosses, that become very slowly tougher to beat, so deeper you get into dungeon. Goal of a Raid is it sinply to show who can get the deepest exploration of dungeon to even reach its end and beatign the final boss after countless of enemies, riddles, traps ,other bosses and so on on your way that are just there to make your way to the end harder.

Raids in my opinion should work also in GW2 like a combination of Dungeons and Fractals, where you have every now and theren in parts of the raids to handel some kind of negative room effects that make overcoming these parts of the raid challenging, not static negative effects that are everytime the same, but as of the nature of a randomized dungeon craweler, so shoudl be also these negative room effects everytime different.

Enemies you have to fight against, evrytiem different, as that will help the point, that raids won’t become too quick too boring, because its everytime the same….
Doing a raid hould feel to each participating player in the Raid Sqard, as if it would be everytime a completely new and different challenge, thats what i understand under a raid and not warmed up old coffee-dungeons with just static ways where you do everytime the same by beating 3 bosses to get your rewards
BOOOORING!!! and absolutely not creative, not what we really asked for, because I can’t remember myself that anyone here suggested by talking about Raids, that we want to have Dungeons 2.0

Another different form of how they coud have done Raids into GW2 is with a gameplay mechanic that includes also PvP elements, by adding again Factions by aaddign Faction Raids, where Raid Squads of different Factions fight agaisnt each other in a kind of WvW similar environment for the goal of “who kills more bosses and who loots more treasure chests over time x to declare, which faction won the raid” instead of this classical dungeon raid thing that they unneccessarely needed to link to the PvE lore/story… so that people find now in LW3 npcs which talk about persons and things, about which players have absolutely no clue about, as logn they haven’t played the raids – great job anet and alienating your player base by this dumb decision that makes your LW3 partwise now immersion breaking, despite yiu sayign, that peopel dont need to have to play the raids, to understand the LW3 story – yes thats right, but this doesn’t include all your npcs and what they are talking …/doh !!!

Whoudl I have been responsibl for Raids, I would completely redesign that stuff from scratch as it absolutely doesn’t fit to GW2, the stuff thats already there woudl i recycle and integrate into the lousy tiny start of LW3’s first episode to make it alot longer and in every aspect completed, instead of lettign it be such a switzer cheese full of design and lore holes that lets player which haven’t played the raids yet stand there sometimes with only ?‘s in their face, because sometims your’ missing the conections from what a npc is talking to the current LW3 episode, as logn you have not played the raids to understand about what the npc is talkign right now or referrign too..or you talk about things, as if you would have been there within the raid, despite you haven’t really done it ….and thats whats immersion breaking, when npc’s start to talk about unlayed eggs and assume you have done something in the past, when you haven’t done yet at all what the NPC is talking about… as if they would be some kind of backward-fortuneteller, who can read the past from just talking with you despite you seeign these npcs for your first time, and they talk with you, as if you woudl know them already your whole life!!! >.>

Nope, you can turn it as yiou want, raids were terribly implemenmted into this game and as a result of this, suffers now the living world content massively in its quality.
great job.

Anymore than 2 warriors and you’re sort of wasting a spot. They’ve got unique buffs which you want in a party composition. However, with 2 you’ve got enough to cover the whole group. It’s best to add a class with more dps or utility. I’ve seen some crazy raids with like 8 tempest or all necros, but those were experienced raiders. A decently balanced group is best for learning runs if you even want a chance at reaching later boss phases.

Short answer? Raids discriminate classes because the whole idea behind them is to discriminate.

Raids are having the same problem now as dungeons did when the game originally launched. People have found a method that works, that method has become the meta, and absolutely nobody is willing to experiment otherwise because people would rather not waste time on something that will likely fail.

That said, you’ll notice now that dungeons have basically become a “All welcome” game feature. What changed? Power creep and HoT builds, basically. The average level of DPS+survivability has gone up quite a lot with the arrival of Ascended gear and elite specializations. It means that just one or two good players can easily carry the rest of the party, and so the need for meta team builds is now almost non-existent.

Now, I’d argue that this is actually a GOOD change for dungeons, because it opens up more game content to players who previously weren’t able to experience it for themselves, prolonging game longevity. I’d like to see raids receive the same sort of treatment, probably by introducing an “Easy mode” for raids where things like the Enrage timer are disabled (the standard “Hard mode” can be buffed to give additional rewards so that players who can do the higher difficulty setting can earn more in a shorter period of time. See Fractals for how this worked INCREDIBLY well.)

I find it ironic that GW2 doesn’t have a holy trinity when the reason for not having specific roles was to avoid pretty much this type of situation. Warriors are quite common I guess just like the DPS role in other MMOs so the end result is the same, just different names…Instead of tanks or healers, people are just looking for specific classes/builds with different names but the bottom line is the same I guess.

Discrimination sometimes forces player to select an uncomforable-to-play profession. Even a team has a good composition, it’s a silent disaster.

Raid doesnt discriminate classes , the game designers do by making some classes way superior to others and then designing content around the superior classes teams

this is my biggest turn off of the game so far, raid pvp or wvw i have to play specific professions just to be able to play on equal footing as everyone else

if there is one thing that frustrates me about raids is that i have to use some kind of alien translator just to know WTF they want.
just look at the LFT window, i see more 2 letter words that makes no sense then i see 2 year olds scratching on walls.
is it really so hard to use proper english, is it really so hard to simply type what you want?

It’s not about “discrimination”, it’s about having an optimum party composition. It’s been like this since forever. You don’t pick a class just because it can hit things, you pick them for a reason.

Why don’t you just have 10 full magi healers? Or 2 magi healers? Because it’s stupid and wastes X spots for something better. If you can only play Warrior, then sucks to be you. A lot of people have at least 4+ classes fully geared. Personally I have 9 classes fully geared, full ascended, food, ready to go. If a group needs a certain class, I’ll go on that class because I don’t get easily offended like the OP.

the issue is actually about having manners and respect, especially in a training run which certainly does not have to be optimal and by its nature has new players who don’t understand things in the mix. There’s a way of doing things, such as apologizing and explaining why they cannot attend, rather than the ‘1 comment then boot’ which you often see. Its not discrimination though, every raid composition can take only so much variance before becoming nonviable.

vesica tempestas.1563:

the issue is actually about having manners and respect, especially in a training run which certainly does not have to be optimal and by its nature has new players who don’t understand things in the mix. There’s a way of doing things, such as apologizing and explaining why they cannot attend, rather than the ‘1 comment then boot’ which you often see. Its not discrimination though, every raid composition can take only so much variance before becoming nonviable.

Except that in this case the OP states that the players running the event did attempt to explain the matter to him and then thanked him (followed by a kick) when he opted to not cooperate.

fair comment

As long as Anet insists on including enrage timers and other “kill fast” mechanics in 90%+ of the fights, this problem will exist.

The reality, that I hope Anet is starting to see, is that there are a lot of people who would like to experience the raids without having to completely alter how they have been playing the guild for the past 3 and a half years.

This is the single biggest issues with raids at the moment, imo. Even if it doesn’t give the same reward as the current strictures, they need to look at ways to fix it and expand the experience to more people.

this is the exact problem we have with dungeons, the only difference is that there is more room in one team.

we need a difficulty bar for both of them, new players can play the easy version while the veterans can play the hard one.
example:
easy-normal enemies, veteran boss, elite end boss (not scaled)
normal-the way it is now
hard-only veterans and elites, champion boss, legendary end boss

it’s one thing to respect players, it’s another to completely ignore a part of the player base.
i have this all the time, regardless of how well i play as a necro they never want me even if i outdo the whole team.
this whole (play this or F off) should stop, every single prof should be able to play.
better yet, player skill makes a huge difference, you can have 10 beserker warriors who suck or have 1 necro who survives regardless of situation, choose wisely.

Blaeys.3102:

As long as Anet insists on including enrage timers and other “kill fast” mechanics in 90%+ of the fights, this problem will exist.

You really think that without completely irrelevant enrage timers people will be fine with slow kills because some pugs decided that they are too good to be part of a team?

sorudo.9054:

new players can play the easy version while the veterans can play the hard one.

What. Everyone is new to the raids, why suddenly demand an “easy” version?

Seems pretty stupid to dumb down the content because people can’t be bothered to learn how to use their class beyond open-world zerging. Either learn to play (happily go into fractals/dungeons/DPS golem and learn rotations etc.), or don’t try and dumb down raids into something so worthless, that your average player can easily do.

domness.6719:

sorudo.9054:

new players can play the easy version while the veterans can play the hard one.

What. Everyone is new to the raids, why suddenly demand an “easy” version?

Seems pretty stupid to dumb down the content because people can’t be bothered to learn how to use their class beyond open-world zerging. Either learn to play (happily go into fractals/dungeons/DPS golem and learn rotations etc.), or don’t try and dumb down raids into something so worthless, that your average player can easily do.

I don’t think the answer is to tone down the existing level of difficulty – nor do I think it should be comparable in difficulty to open world (or even fractals), but rather to add interim levels that deal with this issue directly – and probably help more get into raiding at all levels.

domness.6719:

sorudo.9054:

new players can play the easy version while the veterans can play the hard one.

What. Everyone is new to the raids, why suddenly demand an “easy” version?

Seems pretty stupid to dumb down the content because people can’t be bothered to learn how to use their class beyond open-world zerging. Either learn to play (happily go into fractals/dungeons/DPS golem and learn rotations etc.), or don’t try and dumb down raids into something so worthless, that your average player can easily do.

i am above average in terms of skill yet i have no interest in “l33t max g33r bro” players, i like to play by doing it at my pace.
better yet, i frikin hate zergs, i also frikin hate dungeons because it’s made for characters higher then what it was meant for. (lvl 80 or scram is not my idea of a lvl 35 dungeon)

if i have to be completely honest, i love to play dungeons on my own, i love to get dungeon armor without the need of changing everything i like just because a group wants the perfect run. (and i see a run as elite rush crap, play normal or buzz off)
i see ppl complaining X is to easy and Y is to easy while saying it has to be harder yet when ppl ask to make it easier there are ppl like you who want to point out that “play something else then zerg” as if ppl who don’t like the difficulty are always the zergers.

It’s more complicated than people are making it seem, because there are several simple dynamics interacting.

First, the mechanics are less forgiving. Small mistakes by a single player can cause a wipe for the other 9.

• Team composition matters more in raids than it does anywhere else in PvE.
• The composition matters more for new groups than it does for experienced groups — the more new people, the more it matters.

Given that, raid teachers have different approaches to guiding people:

• Ask for an initial team that is as best-suited to succeed as possible, including team comp, builds, gear, foods.
• Start with all comers and show how unforgiving the mechanics are and thus why comp, build, gear, food matters more.

Hopefully, it’s obvious why most people will presume that the first strategy is faster (which it probably is, for most people).

The OP ran into a training group decided it only wanted to accept people who accepted that philosophy; it didn’t want to spend extra time explaining it to everyone when it wouldn’t be difficult to find a replacement.

I think that’s a reasonable point of view, even if I might not adopt that myself.

tl;dr if you are joining a training run, find out how the group intends to roll and decide with them whether you are a good fit. It’s okay if you’re not; there will be another group that is. (Although, no one can promise that it’s easy to find a group flexible enough for those who want to be less flexible themselves.)

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Blaeys.3102:

As long as Anet insists on including enrage timers and other “kill fast” mechanics in 90%+ of the fights, this problem will exist.

You really think that without completely irrelevant enrage timers people will be fine with slow kills because some pugs decided that they are too good to be part of a team?

It worked in dungeons. It was much easier to find and fill all-inclusive LFGs than highly restrictive ones. And both groups were as likely to finish the content succesfully.

Raids should not be about killing as fast as possible. It should require you to perform in a way that benefits the members of the raid. i’d say the key word is synergy.

As of now the raid wings require synergy, but is on a kitten timer, which makes it so bad I want to puke.

The timer is just a bad excuse for ArenaNet’s laziness. They should improve creating difficult content without something like adding a timer that requires the raid to have maximized dps.

IF the raid had a stage which the dps in the raid needed to do something specifically that only dps can do, then that would be fine. THOUGH, the whole raid (boss) fight should not be defined by how fast the dps can decrease the boss’s HP bar through the whole fight.

Zoid.2568:

Raids should not be about killing as fast as possible. It should require you to perform in a way that benefits the members of the raid. i’d say the key word is synergy.

As of now the raid wings require synergy, but is on a kitten timer, which makes it so bad I want to puke.

The timer is just a bad excuse for ArenaNet’s laziness. They should improve creating difficult content without something like adding a timer that requires the raid to have maximized dps.

IF the raid had a stage which the dps in the raid needed to do something specifically that only dps can do, then that would be fine. THOUGH, the whole raid (boss) fight should not be defined by how fast the dps can decrease the boss’s HP bar through the whole fight.

I wouldn’t say quite as harshly as this, but I agree – this is the number one issue with raids right now.

I wish Anet would use the same level of creativity in raids that they did when the game launched. Break away from the norm or lazy model used by other raiding games and give us something truly unique that fits with the rest of the game. It can still offer eye bleeding difficulty, but not at the cost of build or playstyle diversity.

Astralporing.1957:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Blaeys.3102:

As long as Anet insists on including enrage timers and other “kill fast” mechanics in 90%+ of the fights, this problem will exist.

You really think that without completely irrelevant enrage timers people will be fine with slow kills because some pugs decided that they are too good to be part of a team?

It worked in dungeons. It was much easier to find and fill all-inclusive LFGs than highly restrictive ones. And both groups were as likely to finish the content succesfully.

That’s because dungeons were made to be complete-able by the lowest common denominator. When you read the articles from before the game released dungeons were supposed to be insanely hard, but since any group was supposed to be able to beat them it made them easy with well tuned groups. Raids on the other hand were made to not be beaten by the lowest common denominator so they turned out harder than dungeons ever were.

And enrage timers are only there so you can’t nomad your way through all the fights and very rarely do people, that complain about the timer, fail because of the timer and not because of the actual mechanics in the fights. If they removed the timer all together the same people would still be failing the fights and would lose their easy to blame scapegoat.

@OP, I don’t know how the pve version of the build works, but currently condi warrior is overpowered as kitten in wvw and most parties are looking for 3-4 to fill out the condi team.

Zaxares.5419:

That said, you’ll notice now that dungeons have basically become a “All welcome” game feature. What changed? Power creep and HoT builds, basically. The average level of DPS+survivability has gone up quite a lot with the arrival of Ascended gear and elite specializations. It means that just one or two good players can easily carry the rest of the party, and so the need for meta team builds is now almost non-existent.

People do dungeons? It took me days to grind out the 5 runs I needed for currency to make my legendary because the LFG was deserted and my parties took forever to fill. Even then the loot was terrible for the time investment vs. HoT maps.

I’m not saying dungeons are deserted, but they’re pretty close.

Hesacon.8735:

People do dungeons? It took me days to grind out the 5 runs I needed for currency to make my legendary because the LFG was deserted and my parties took forever to fill. Even then the loot was terrible for the time investment vs. HoT maps.

I’m not saying dungeons are deserted, but they’re pretty close.

Yeah, they’re largely deserted because as you pointed out, the time>reward ratio they offer is woefully small compared to what the AB multimap or SW runs can get you. But if you try doing a particular dungeon on the day when it’s the daily, you’ll usually get lots of groups, and the vast majority of those groups don’t bother with any requirements, yet they still complete it in a reasonable amount of time.

Azoqu.8917:

And enrage timers are only there so you can’t nomad your way through all the fights

Actually, you can (well, you can for some bosses, not so much for others). You just have to build specifically for it.

Azoqu.8917:

and very rarely do people, that complain about the timer, fail because of the timer and not because of the actual mechanics in the fights.

Oh, but they do. The timer causes them to concentrate on dps instead of on the mechanics, and that is the major cause of wipes.

Azoqu.8917:

If they removed the timer all together the same people would still be failing the fights and would lose their easy to blame scapegoat.

If that’s true, then there’s no point to the timer at all, and it can be safely removed without changing anything.

Holy kitten, guys get a kittening grip. This constant complaining on every front about raids is just kittening ridiculous. Either do it or don’t. It’s not such a big deal to learn and complete raids and getting kicked isn’t a very nice thing, but you can’t just postulate your opinion be cause of some guys kicking you once. My god, if everyone would react like this all the time: ‘People made fun of me be cause I had a My Little Pony shirt and now all those people are kittens and need to get arrested’.

Learn to get up after you fall down.

Blaeys.3102:

Zoid.2568:

Raids should not be about killing as fast as possible. It should require you to perform in a way that benefits the members of the raid. i’d say the key word is synergy.

As of now the raid wings require synergy, but is on a kitten timer, which makes it so bad I want to puke.

The timer is just a bad excuse for ArenaNet’s laziness. They should improve creating difficult content without something like adding a timer that requires the raid to have maximized dps.

IF the raid had a stage which the dps in the raid needed to do something specifically that only dps can do, then that would be fine. THOUGH, the whole raid (boss) fight should not be defined by how fast the dps can decrease the boss’s HP bar through the whole fight.

I wouldn’t say quite as harshly as this, but I agree – this is the number one issue with raids right now.

I wish Anet would use the same level of creativity in raids that they did when the game launched. Break away from the norm or lazy model used by other raiding games and give us something truly unique that fits with the rest of the game. It can still offer eye bleeding difficulty, but not at the cost of build or playstyle diversity.

It’s also untrue for most fights. Your group can choose to play it safe and risk the enrage timer. The enrage timer will not wipe you, except in gorseval.

I’m not sure that the easy-moders should make their stand here.

The commander chose to teach the encounter to a random group of people.

The commander wanted to have a shot of completing the encounter.

The group already had a bunch of warriors.

The commander wanted another class to fill out the group. (Ironically, some easy-moders complain about class diversity in raids).

OP comes and complains in the forums. He does not offer anything constructive. He does not join another run (note, he wasted almost 0 time in his attempt), he does not seek out training guilds, he does not form his own group.

I am one of those people who actually like the trinity of heal, dps and tank in group content and I do understand the point of enrage timers.

The reality is that for raids it’s simply part of the program. Sure, GW2 doesn’t have these roles but as I mentioned before it’s just taken a different form in GW2. The enrage timers are there as part of the challenge. Raid content is about showing that as a group you can coordinate and use your classes to their strengths. If you cannot beat the boss within a certain time frame, you basically fail the challenge, so why would you then be allowed to carry on for ages till finally you kill the boss.

The challenge isn’t just to kill the boss but also to do it within a reasonable time.

one thing they could do, less enemies, more puzzles.
that way the so called “OP” professions are just as much as any other, we need something that is challenging yet makes the whole DPS rush useless.

People didn’t buy GW 2 for raids, and adding it in to satisfy a minority of people has just caused the majority to question if investing in GW 2 is a good idea or not.

They should have added the raids at the same time as LS 3, so everyone had something to do not just sitting around whilst one group was doing something new and exciting.

If you ask any “serious” raider about their opinion of “holy trinity”, most likely they will say: Thank God Anet decided to do without it.
Then they go LFG looking for it

Blaeys.3102:

As long as Anet insists on including enrage timers and other “kill fast” mechanics in 90%+ of the fights, this problem will exist.

The reality, that I hope Anet is starting to see, is that there are a lot of people who would like to experience the raids without having to completely alter how they have been playing the guild for the past 3 and a half years.

This is the single biggest issues with raids at the moment, imo. Even if it doesn’t give the same reward as the current strictures, they need to look at ways to fix it and expand the experience to more people.

Yeah some games have selectable difficulties like normal, hard, and elite which give varying levels of rewards. This opens the door for more players and gives a much better learning experience.

Cerby.1069:

-snip-
tldr: Mentors are lame if that’s how this has got to go down.

Well, I can honestly say not all raid training runs are like that. Been on quite a few myself with my guild both learning and teaching. There’s a list of guilds and groups on Reddit who teach raids (not sure if that’s where you got the group you went with from or not) so if one group doesn’t work out, try another.

I don’t want to be that girl but because we’re only hearing your side, I don’t want to get into the who should have said/done what. I can understand why you were asked to re-roll if the group already had 2 warriors. I main Necro and sometimes we have people wanting to learn on a Necro or experience the raid for the first time and can only bring a Necro. As I currently don’t feel competent with another class in raids (gearing isn’t an issue as I know I can wear exotics and be fine), I generally drop from the group as there’s always people wanting to join the runs. I can always go another time and I’d rather someone new got to experience the raid than myself.

The thing is, a training run that succeeds always feels better for teachers and students than one which fails. Sadly party composition is a factor in that, particularly when you’re learning. Yes, some groups can do all tempest/reaper runs in greens while standing on their heads (exaggeration slightly but you catch my drift), but they were exactly where you were at one point. Some people forget that, some people don’t like to admit they were anything less than perfect and some people just phrase the need for composition in less than pleasant words.

Quite honestly the only advice I can give is find a guild/group with set out “rules” for raids: what they expect from you and what they will do in return. This is something much more easily laid out by a guild for a guild to follow and enforce, however. That way if you feel that the person hosting the run isn’t sticking to their end of the agreement, you can always escalate it to a guild leader with screenshots etc. If you don’t want to join a guild that teaches raids, then you’re probably going to continue to have negative experiences with pugs. You could always give the Reddit list a try though and see what the non-guild teachers are like if you’ve not dipped in that pool already though.

domness.6719:

It’s not about “discrimination”, it’s about having an optimum party composition. It’s been like this since forever. You don’t pick a class just because it can hit things, you pick them for a reason.

Why don’t you just have 10 full magi healers? Or 2 magi healers? Because it’s stupid and wastes X spots for something better. If you can only play Warrior, then sucks to be you. A lot of people have at least 4+ classes fully geared. Personally I have 9 classes fully geared, full ascended, food, ready to go. If a group needs a certain class, I’ll go on that class because I don’t get easily offended like the OP.

Here you go. 10 healers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9CKhI_g7ng

Whethers its full magi’s i dont know, but they are in fact running heal/support builds.

FrostDraco.8306:

domness.6719:

It’s not about “discrimination”, it’s about having an optimum party composition. It’s been like this since forever. You don’t pick a class just because it can hit things, you pick them for a reason.

Why don’t you just have 10 full magi healers? Or 2 magi healers? Because it’s stupid and wastes X spots for something better. If you can only play Warrior, then sucks to be you. A lot of people have at least 4+ classes fully geared. Personally I have 9 classes fully geared, full ascended, food, ready to go. If a group needs a certain class, I’ll go on that class because I don’t get easily offended like the OP.

Here you go. 10 healers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9CKhI_g7ng

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl_IUQuZuCg

Whethers its full magi’s i dont know, but they are in fact running heal/support builds.

Unfortunately, you have missed or ignored the point that domness was making.

You don’t run 10 healers because there are much better things to run; literally any other class/role is better for a group of 9 healers than adding a 10th healer to the group. And that’s true for 8 healers, 7 healers, 6 healers, 5 healers, and even 4 healers. I suppose 3 healers could be justified in extremely conservative groups, but even that is a hard sell.

Of course, nothing prevents people running extremely suboptimal compositions like 10 healers “for the lulz”, but unfortunately that has nothing to do with the goals of the average raid group, or even the goals of a raid training group. In groups that have specific goals (i.e. teach people the fight, or clear the fight in a time-efficient manner), it doesn’t make sense to make choices that hinder those goals.

I don’t get why people still complain about timers when every boss can be beaten with 4+ minutes left on it smh…

perry.9645:

I don’t get why people still complain about timers when every boss can be beaten with 4+ minutes left on it smh…

Can be… with experienced, optimized parties that know exactly what they’re doing, how to play their class, etc.

Training groups and other PUGs… are not those groups.

perry.9645:

I don’t get why people still complain about timers when every boss can be beaten with 4+ minutes left on it smh…

That something can be done doesn’t mean it is an expected result, or that anyone can do the same.

To persist on the claim that timers are a real issues for players when it isn’t in wide over 90% of the runs isn’t helpful either. Also given the fact that bosses deal percental damages with their attacks this argument becomes weaker and weaker.

People complain about build not doing enough damage to be used in raid.
Then someone post a video of 10 tempest on the worst gear ( come one they are hitting like 180 – 300 damage lol ) clearing the hardest boss by far ( Matthias ), then suddenly its “well not everyone can do it”, well of course not everyone can do it, but it just show that A-Net nailed the design as you can bring anything, so its just a player problem stop claiming that raids doesnt allow it, player skill doesnt allow it and thats how it should be.

sorry OP, but its not class discrimination, its class diversity

only because you were able to do all the other content somehow, it does not mean you did it GOOD.

you maybe did for example arah path 3 in 30min+ (maybe with 5 warriors^^), while a good team takes 6-8min in a casual run (mes-thief-war-ele-ele, usually)

raids are supposed to be content where you NEED to be good

they even open new tables, with the enrage timer you can even make a fun of playing usually really bad builds (full nomads) in order to “withstand” the phase after the enrage timer is over.

so you can play it with with any composition you want, if you play it GOOD.
dont even need to be that good, they are really really forgiving.
and being good can be trained, some may take a bit longer, some maybe get it faster.

Astralporing.1957:

perry.9645:

I don’t get why people still complain about timers when every boss can be beaten with 4+ minutes left on it smh…

That something can be done doesn’t mean it is an expected result, or that anyone can do the same.

And that prooves that you don’t need Meta teams to beat the content before enrage

Drakz.7051:

People didn’t buy GW 2 for raids, and adding it in to satisfy a minority of people has just caused the majority to question if investing in GW 2 is a good idea or not.

They should have added the raids at the same time as LS 3, so everyone had something to do not just sitting around whilst one group was doing something new and exciting.

You miss something. When HoT released all the casual ppl got the content they like. While ppl who enjoied instanced content like dung/frac had to wait

Orpheal.8263:

Because raids are just bad designed other forms of “dungeons” with just this time 10 instead of 5 people….

You follow just a trail and have to beat on the trail 3 bosses to get the reward..its exactly like a dungeon..nothing new.
When people asked for raids, they wanted something NEW and not warmed up old coffee with just increased number of players that can play it together.

Thats mainly the problem, why people complain about raids and especially because the raids are in that regard bad designed, because they favor specific class builds to the point, that they and just only they become so mandatory, that you need them, otherwise you will fail because of the lack of DPS and this braindead stupid timer in the background that forces you and your party to go for full DPS, otherwise you will fail because of the bosses becoming quickly too powerful so that they can one hit kill you….

Thats imo far far faaaar away from good game design in my opinion and absolutely not what I understand under a Raid.

For me is a Raid Game Content in an ever with each instance changing environment (Dungeon Crawler Style) that you play with like 20-50 people together so that you form a real Squad and not just only a larger groop, so that there is absolutely more than space enough, that you can take people from every class with you who wants to join your Raid Squad for the run that is then organized in like 2-10 Groups max
(2×10, or 4×5 or 10×5 or 5×10 people in regard how many peiople are maximum allowed to come into the Raid Section you want to play (part of the difficulty setting, so higher the difficulty, so lesser people may come with you, but so bigger are the rewards for everyone)

In a Raid you don’t fight just threee bosses and be done with it… in a raid you fight unendless hordes of monsters and bosses, that become very slowly tougher to beat, so deeper you get into dungeon. Goal of a Raid is it sinply to show who can get the deepest exploration of dungeon to even reach its end and beatign the final boss after countless of enemies, riddles, traps ,other bosses and so on on your way that are just there to make your way to the end harder.

Raids in my opinion should work also in GW2 like a combination of Dungeons and Fractals, where you have every now and theren in parts of the raids to handel some kind of negative room effects that make overcoming these parts of the raid challenging, not static negative effects that are everytime the same, but as of the nature of a randomized dungeon craweler, so shoudl be also these negative room effects everytime different.

Enemies you have to fight against, evrytiem different, as that will help the point, that raids won’t become too quick too boring, because its everytime the same….
Doing a raid hould feel to each participating player in the Raid Sqard, as if it would be everytime a completely new and different challenge, thats what i understand under a raid and not warmed up old coffee-dungeons with just static ways where you do everytime the same by beating 3 bosses to get your rewards
BOOOORING!!! and absolutely not creative, not what we really asked for, because I can’t remember myself that anyone here suggested by talking about Raids, that we want to have Dungeons 2.0

Another different form of how they coud have done Raids into GW2 is with a gameplay mechanic that includes also PvP elements, by adding again Factions by aaddign Faction Raids, where Raid Squads of different Factions fight agaisnt each other in a kind of WvW similar environment for the goal of “who kills more bosses and who loots more treasure chests over time x to declare, which faction won the raid” instead of this classical dungeon raid thing that they unneccessarely needed to link to the PvE lore/story… so that people find now in LW3 npcs which talk about persons and things, about which players have absolutely no clue about, as logn they haven’t played the raids – great job anet and alienating your player base by this dumb decision that makes your LW3 partwise now immersion breaking, despite yiu sayign, that peopel dont need to have to play the raids, to understand the LW3 story – yes thats right, but this doesn’t include all your npcs and what they are talking …/doh !!!

Whoudl I have been responsibl for Raids, I would completely redesign that stuff from scratch as it absolutely doesn’t fit to GW2, the stuff thats already there woudl i recycle and integrate into the lousy tiny start of LW3’s first episode to make it alot longer and in every aspect completed, instead of lettign it be such a switzer cheese full of design and lore holes that lets player which haven’t played the raids yet stand there sometimes with only ?‘s in their face, because sometims your’ missing the conections from what a npc is talking to the current LW3 episode, as logn you have not played the raids to understand about what the npc is talkign right now or referrign too..or you talk about things, as if you would have been there within the raid, despite you haven’t really done it ….and thats whats immersion breaking, when npc’s start to talk about unlayed eggs and assume you have done something in the past, when you haven’t done yet at all what the NPC is talking about… as if they would be some kind of backward-fortuneteller, who can read the past from just talking with you despite you seeign these npcs for your first time, and they talk with you, as if you woudl know them already your whole life!!! >.>

Nope, you can turn it as yiou want, raids were terribly implemenmted into this game and as a result of this, suffers now the living world content massively in its quality.
great job.

No thanks, that sounds horrible.