Guild Wars 2

Welp iirc when raids were anounced and we found out that it was gonna be 10 man content ppl suggested that anet should switch the max target cap for buffs to 10 so we dont have t take doubles of ppl and their answer was no coz that would make a super comp and we wouldnt see much variety in comps… needless to say some months later and we now experience one of the most if not the most static comp in raids with multiples of each class taking most of the spots and here i am asking again who would increasing the cap to 10 would hurt the game more? i mean having 1 mesmer to aply quickness to 10 ppl having 1 warr t aply banner buff to the entire group and 1 druid for gotl and spotter wouldnt that leave us with 7 spots to pick and choose what to add or remove? I see that every patch day the need of a raise in the max count for share should increase for the sake of more vialbe comps. This isnt a rant its just a suggestion to the devs and a op topic to start a non toxic discuusion i understand many ppl are quite kittened about the patch but i didnt make this thread for that reason.

On a completely diff note tho why isnt there a public test real for importand patches to go live a week or 2 before the go live so ppl can freely join(raiding guilds/raiders , pvpers who are serious about the game wvwers who care about big changes that afet their gamemode like this one) and give their feedback on the patch make suggestions and improvements on it so the result is close to what is actually is better for the whole game not just 1 game mode of the others. Other companies like blizzard use public test realms for their games and with their community’s feedback they improve on them.Im not telling you to do what ever blizzard does but this is a succesful recipy followed by multiple games :/

p.s (before wvwers start raging about the 10 man cap raise… split the cap to only aply in pve )

Well the more I think about it the more I believe this is a big Flaw in Raiding. A Flaw we either didn’t recognize or well ignored because one Class was enough to give everyone quite a lot of Quickness even with a 5 Man Buff Cap and this allowed for enough Flexibility in the Raid Comps and having a good amount of flexibility is a good Thing.

And well 5 Man Buff Cap for 10 Man Content is restricting. If we stay at the Quickness we can generate now we need the 10 Man Buff Cap. With this, you don’t need 2 PS Warriors, 2 Mesmers and 2 Druids to give everyone the Buffs they need and one of each of them would be enough. Obviously some Balance Changes must be done if we go this Route then but it would free up 3 Slots for other Classes, like giving the Auramancer a Shot as a Second Healer.

havng the 10 man cap would also allow more classes to be helpfull with enough for exmple a bacilisk venom share to 10 ppl could be massive for bar cc and thiefs would be asked mre than just a dps slot well wth changes to the cc dmg or the size of the cc bar also with guard symbols stacking to 10 ppl guards would benefit the group as well there would be the need for further balancing but we would be passed the issue with needing multiple classes. If arenta net is scared of multiclass comps with the 10 man scap being broken they can just make importand skills like grace of the land or what ever else not stack with other’s so overstacking doesnt become an issue

It does make sense, but this will probably lead to: 1 war, 1 chrono, 1 druid, 7 ele…

MrHarses.6801:

It does make sense, but this will probably lead to: 1 war, 1 chrono, 1 druid, 7 ele…

Like I said, some Balance Changes need to be done then if we go this Route but I see this as a good Step in the Right Direction.

And if Anet stops nerfing Classes not called Eles and stops buffing Eles we could see more variety. ( together with more Skill Splitting which also would make Balancing easier )

Walhalla.5473:

MrHarses.6801:

It does make sense, but this will probably lead to: 1 war, 1 chrono, 1 druid, 7 ele…

Like I said, some Balance Changes need to be done then if we go this Route but I see this as a good Step in the Right Direction.

And if Anet stops nerfing Classes not called Eles and stops buffing Eles we could see more variety. ( together with more Skill Splitting which also would make Balancing easier )

The original reason Anet didn’t want to allow 10 man buffs was because it would lead to 1 comp that could stack all buffs in the game with minimal support allowing for far higher than intended dps making the encounters a joke.
They’ve stated before that they didn’t want to have to deal with the idea of one composition that had ~7 dps classes with all buffs since if they balanced the content around that it would mean no other composition would generally work.
As it is, raids are incredibly forgiving, all bosses can be can be completed with as few as 6 people before enrage timer. Beyond this nothing in the raid actually requires people to run with all the buffs that a mirror composition brings, people think that it is needed to clear the content.
The only thing that actually changed with this balance over all is that you can’t get 100% up-time on the strongest boon in the game with only 1 mesmer anymore. And that the unintended affect of jagged horrors was removed.
All of the classes that were optimal or near optimal before are now in basically the same position with the exception of Necromancer. Even then there is no boss that can be cleared, that can’t be cleared with a 10 necro teams so it’s not like it’s a dead class.
People need to take a step back and stop complaining that balance happened because if you ever look at things anet only does minor changes 90% of the time to nudge the meta game.

Xcorpdog.2840:

Walhalla.5473:

MrHarses.6801:

It does make sense, but this will probably lead to: 1 war, 1 chrono, 1 druid, 7 ele…

Like I said, some Balance Changes need to be done then if we go this Route but I see this as a good Step in the Right Direction.

And if Anet stops nerfing Classes not called Eles and stops buffing Eles we could see more variety. ( together with more Skill Splitting which also would make Balancing easier )

The original reason Anet didn’t want to allow 10 man buffs was because it would lead to 1 comp that could stack all buffs in the game with minimal support allowing for far higher than intended dps making the encounters a joke.
They’ve stated before that they didn’t want to have to deal with the idea of one composition that had ~7 dps classes with all buffs since if they balanced the content around that it would mean no other composition would generally work.
As it is, raids are incredibly forgiving, all bosses can be can be completed with as few as 6 people before enrage timer. Beyond this nothing in the raid actually requires people to run with all the buffs that a mirror composition brings, people think that it is needed to clear the content.
The only thing that actually changed with this balance over all is that you can’t get 100% up-time on the strongest boon in the game with only 1 mesmer anymore. And that the unintended affect of jagged horrors was removed.
All of the classes that were optimal or near optimal before are now in basically the same position with the exception of Necromancer. Even then there is no boss that can be cleared, that can’t be cleared with a 10 necro teams so it’s not like it’s a dead class.
People need to take a step back and stop complaining that balance happened because if you ever look at things anet only does minor changes 90% of the time to nudge the meta game.

i see where you are coming from but i still think that with the raids being 10 man and buffs be 5 man still leads to stacking the same classes because its just optimal compaired to have more class varaiety and i really dont like that idea its comon sense to try and give every partyber in the group the buffs that some classes allow
and 10 man.would just free space im not against the idea tho of merfing the buffs so a single mesmer could give perma quickness woth a rev and commanders armor but dont forget that playing chrono effectively aka upkeeping 100 boon dur required a more complex rptaion and skillful play compaired to 90 % of other classes. The part where they are scared of ppl having all the bifs i dont agree with because what we have now imho is in no way better.

Walhalla.5473:

And if Anet stops nerfing Classes not called Eles and stops buffing Eles we could see more variety.

Ele is their main target for nerfs lol

otome.2673:

Walhalla.5473:

And if Anet stops nerfing Classes not called Eles and stops buffing Eles we could see more variety.

Necro is their main target for nerfs lol

Fixed it.

I can’t say much on the first subject, but yea, A PTR is a basic demand that anet hasn’t yet answered to. Maybe we can make a new topic for that

Amaimon.7823:

I can’t say much on the first subject, but yea, A PTR is a basic demand that anet hasn’t yet answered to. Maybe we can make a new topic for that

I do not see the point of a PTR if they do not have enough people to monitor it carefully (yet another thing to monitor!!!).
The so called need for a PTR only comes from a selfish feeling of “I am not the prime tester and want to be”. Most activities on PTR for other games is to provide a common platform for streamers and bloggers to have their article/guide ready for launch. Only a few of the testers are actually helpful for the real testing part. Anet chose to focus on those few players and select them beforehand.
Because it may sound surprising but balance patches are tested. And guess what, the testers are not more or less stupid than other players. They know the Meta in different activities, they have different level of gameplay etc etc
If something you don’t like goes live, it is not because it was not tested, most of the time it was intended. You may not like the shift in the paradigm but still there is a big chance that the devs knew what would happen.

Actually what is funny is that by the alacrity nerf they said they nerf the value instead the duration because the solution would have been to bring 2 chrono. By not nerfing the power but the duration of quickness they must have known the effect would be that players would bring 2 chronos. They just let it happened, contrary to the time they nerfed alacrity.
Why did they let that go through is the actual question, and I must say they failed to answer it with the two lines header in the patch notes.

I must say really the only reason you think that this meta is “stale” because you only have "one real composition of 2druid/2ps/2chrono/4dps…..is because thats the “High DPS safe strat” composition….YOU DONT HAVE TO RUN IT. People are still killing bosses with the old 7/2/1 setup, albeit its a bit more difficult now because not “EVERYONE” gets every buff possible….But it can still be done. Same thing with the old 4/4/2 comp. It has slightly less dps now since obviously quickness was nerfed, but is still useful in doing raid incounters. People just don’t see it because they think they NEED perma-quickness to kill a boss…you don’t. That’s just the “safe” strategy. The only thing that really did hurt was the Necro nerf. That really did hurt our DPS and Necros have no real way to make that up as of yet, but that’s now. Who knows what may change in the future.

This is also the cause for the unrealistic “Rev is useless now”….Rev is not useless. Rev was never really “needed” for the 50% boon duration most of the time, but it helped supply the group with extra might/fury/protection, and is an AMAZING class to bring if you need CC. Having the NR decreased to 33% obviously does hurt a “tad” bit in keeping up with certain boons, but you can still use a rev in plenty of encounters.

The only reason people think its so “one build rules all” is their own mindsets because they want to run the “best of the best” composition. They don’t want to go outside their comfort zones. Maybe this is why Anet is trying to push these changes. With these setups it makes the raid so much easier (aka the “new” 5/5 setup). Who knew if anet really expected players to just go “oh bring 2 chrono now” or if they expected the players to maybe try something new and different.

Ranael.6423:

Amaimon.7823:

I can’t say much on the first subject, but yea, A PTR is a basic demand that anet hasn’t yet answered to. Maybe we can make a new topic for that

I do not see the point of a PTR if they do not have enough people to monitor it carefully (yet another thing to monitor!!!).
The so called need for a PTR only comes from a selfish feeling of “I am not the prime tester and want to be”. Most activities on PTR for other games is to provide a common platform for streamers and bloggers to have their article/guide ready for launch. Only a few of the testers are actually helpful for the real testing part. Anet chose to focus on those few players and select them beforehand.
Because it may sound surprising but balance patches are tested. And guess what, the testers are not more or less stupid than other players. They know the Meta in different activities, they have different level of gameplay etc etc
If something you don’t like goes live, it is not because it was not tested, most of the time it was intended. You may not like the shift in the paradigm but still there is a big chance that the devs knew what would happen.

Actually what is funny is that by the alacrity nerf they said they nerf the value instead the duration because the solution would have been to bring 2 chrono. By not nerfing the power but the duration of quickness they must have known the effect would be that players would bring 2 chronos. They just let it happened, contrary to the time they nerfed alacrity.
Why did they let that go through is the actual question, and I must say they failed to answer it with the two lines header in the patch notes.

my god you are triggering me xDDDDD
the prt’s reason of existance ina game is so that nerfs and changes that greaty affect meta or playstle of classes of raid fractal compotitions pvp builds can be tested freely by everyone before it actually goes live so plp dont lose their kitten when the patches are live.In ptr servers ppl talk give feedback streamers and youtubers present the changes to ppl that cant for reasons join the ptr so they can then suggest feedback saying that its only a tool to make guides is pure ignorance.

zealex.9410:

my god you are triggering me xDDDDD
the prt’s reason of existance ina game is so that nerfs and changes that greaty affect meta or playstle of classes of raid fractal compotitions pvp builds can be tested freely by everyone before it actually goes live so plp dont lose their kitten when the patches are live.In ptr servers ppl talk give feedback streamers and youtubers present the changes to ppl that cant for reasons join the ptr so they can then suggest feedback saying that its only a tool to make guides is pure ignorance.

resuming my post to this sentence is pure laziness

Walhalla.5473:

otome.2673:

Walhalla.5473:

And if Anet stops nerfing Classes not called Eles and stops buffing Eles we could see more variety.

Necro is their main target for nerfs lol

Fixed it.

1 nerf and you start crying lmao.. Ele got nerfed so often over the years

Ranael.6423:

Amaimon.7823:

I can’t say much on the first subject, but yea, A PTR is a basic demand that anet hasn’t yet answered to. Maybe we can make a new topic for that

I do not see the point of a PTR if they do not have enough people to monitor it carefully (yet another thing to monitor!!!).
The so called need for a PTR only comes from a selfish feeling of “I am not the prime tester and want to be”. Most activities on PTR for other games is to provide a common platform for streamers and bloggers to have their article/guide ready for launch. Only a few of the testers are actually helpful for the real testing part. Anet chose to focus on those few players and select them beforehand.
Because it may sound surprising but balance patches are tested. And guess what, the testers are not more or less stupid than other players. They know the Meta in different activities, they have different level of gameplay etc etc
If something you don’t like goes live, it is not because it was not tested, most of the time it was intended. You may not like the shift in the paradigm but still there is a big chance that the devs knew what would happen.

Your claim that PTR exists for the purpose of ‘selfish sensation of being a tester’ is an absolute falacy. Maybe SOME people think like that, but it’s not a common notion. People want to have PTRs and be testers because they want the game to function well, and want to be able to alert the gamemakers when something is NOT working well.
PTRs exist for the purpose of refining content. People can test new content for bugs, gltches, imbalances, exploits. WoW uses them, Diablo uses them. And they really help. Anet does not use them. Result, we’ve had several patches that agitated people so much they quit. And they even now had a bug so big they to roll back the game a day or 2. Had they used a PTR that rollback wouldve never happened

My understanding is they have several dedicated guilds testing content on test servers, so while there is no open PTR, it’s not true to say there is no player testing of content. Whether or not the guilds testing future raids are also testing future balance at the same time is unknown.

People quit MMOs all the time, and they come back all the time. It has nothing to do with whether we have a PTR nor would a PTR stop players from disliking nerfs to popular builds.

Wouldn’t a better goal for raid balance be multiple comps are desirable, not multiple professions are required because each one has a super buff like Spotter or Empower Allies? GW2 doesn’t have the trinity to add depth to its combat so it struggles a bit more to give roles to different players in a raid and diversify combat beyond your DPS rotation, but this also means the balance on DPS and utility has to be a lot tighter (certainly more than it is with elementalists so strong compared to other professions) to create a healthy meta.

Boon meta is a crutch for the real problem – DPS isn’t balanced and GW2’s combat system struggles to create meaningful roles outside of DPS. It becomes even harder to create meaningful roles outside of DPS when a single build was permanently maintaining the most powerful boons for the entire party.

Maybe right now the meta isn’t as diverse as it was when we had the crutch of boonshare, but you have to get rid of the crutches if you’re going to learn to walk without them. It won’t happen right away (just like how balance isn’t a single patch fix, it takes iteration and constant evolution) but the crutches were going to hold us back until we begin to progress without them.

otome.2673:

Walhalla.5473:

otome.2673:

Walhalla.5473:

And if Anet stops nerfing Classes not called Eles and stops buffing Eles we could see more variety.

Necro is their main target for nerfs lol

Fixed it.

1 nerf and you start crying lmao.. Ele got nerfed so often over the years

Probably because of this:

http://qtfy.enjin.com/DPS

Elementalist has been top DPS the entirety of GW2’s life (and in the past it was far higher than it is now). First it was Fiery Greatsword’s rush skill into walls (massive AoE damage stacked on top of itself), then it was Frostbow (very high AoE damage, especially strong against bosses, at the time – the longest stun in the game – and each elementalist was able to spawn two at a time) and now we have not one but two elementalist playstyles topping the DPS rankings. This on top of all the utility baked into the elementalist’s attunement and overload designs, and to a lesser extent their utilities.

Every profession has had nerfs since launch but elementalist is the only profession to remain the top the entire time.

Shiren.9532:

otome.2673:

Walhalla.5473:

otome.2673:

Walhalla.5473:

And if Anet stops nerfing Classes not called Eles and stops buffing Eles we could see more variety.

Necro is their main target for nerfs lol

Fixed it.

1 nerf and you start crying lmao.. Ele got nerfed so often over the years

Probably because of this:

http://qtfy.enjin.com/DPS

Elementalist has been top DPS the entirety of GW2’s life (and in the past it was far higher than it is now). First it was Fiery Greatsword’s rush skill into walls (massive AoE damage stacked on top of itself), then it was Frostbow (very high AoE damage, especially strong against bosses, at the time – the longest stun in the game – and each elementalist was able to spawn two at a time) and now we have not one but two elementalist playstyles topping the DPS rankings. This on top of all the utility baked into the elementalist’s attunement and overload designs, and to a lesser extent their utilities.

Every profession has had nerfs since launch but elementalist is the only profession to remain the top the entire time.

Necro is incredible tanky. That has to be changed if they want to be high dps.