Guild Wars 2

I am just listing 10 things that I feel Guild Wars 2 did better than World of Warcraft. They are not listed in any specific order; it’s not a top ten. By no means am I trying to say that Guild Wars 2 is a better game but there are definitely improvements ArenaNet has introduced to the genre.

1. Monsters do not get tagged in GW2. When you hit a monster, any other player that is there can also hit the same monster and still benefit from helping you fight this monster. It encourages cooperation between players and keeps things flowing. In WoW, once you hit the monster it gets tagged by you. It appears grey to other players and they do not benefit from attacking this monster. Such a system, while not by design, discourages cooperation and only encourages selfish behaviours amongst players. You might argue that this encourages people forming parties. I’ll concede on that point; however, it breaks the flow of the game. It’s just not spontaneous like it is in GW2.

2. Everyone has the ability to revive other players. While this is a blessing in dungeons it is also amazing for the open world. There is rarely a time when players passing by would not revive a downed player. You are rewarded experience for reviving other players too so there’s really no reason not to unless it puts you at risk. Even level 80s that have very little to gain will revive you because they have been conditioned to right from the start. WoW’s resurrection system requires that you have the right class. There are nice people that will resurrect you every now and then but a lot of people will just run past your corpse because it reduces their leveling/grinding efficiency.

3. Everything you do rewards you with experience. You get experience for crafting, for exploring, for WvW, gathering, getting achievements, and all the other things that normally reward experience in most MMORPGs. Yes, WoW does reward you for revealing the map but not to the same extent that GW2 does. You don’t have to check every nook and cranny in WoW and you definitely don’t have to do some crazy jumping puzzles, which by the way are a lot of fun and add a whole new dimension to world exploration.

4. Most damage is avoidable. Room wide AOE (area of effect) attacks, DOT (damage over time) spells, and enemies hitting you with melee attacks from 10 feet away are a thing of the past in GW2. When I say most damage is avoidable I mean that there are some attacks that you can’t avoid once you’ve used up your energy doing rolls and what not. There is a lot more skill involved when you can actually avoid damage altogether and whether you lived or died depended less on a healer and more on your own reflexes.

5. You don’t need a target selected in order to perform an attack. This was one of the more annoying things about WoW that I got used to but never really enjoyed. If you use any melee attack it will hit the closest enemy if your target is out of range. You can swing your sword, axe, daggers, etc, and cast spells whenever you want. The satisfaction of being able to do so like in any action game goes a long way to adding enjoyment to the game. Target runs out of LOS? The spell will still complete but it will miss. True, you just wasted your spell but you get the satisfaction of being able to fire it off.

6. There is no holy trinity. The first problem with this setup is putting a group together for a dungeon or raid. You just have to have a certain number of tanks and healers in the group. It’s great for tanks and healers because they’ll always be needed unless there are too many of them which is rarely the case. The DPS (damage per second) classes end up suffering because they become expendable. Getting into groups as a result is a lot more difficult because DPS are a dime a dozen. The second problem is over reliance on both the tanks and healers. As mentioned above, most damage in GW2 is avoidable. In any MMORPG like WoW, making this so would take away the need for the holy trinity. It is based on the outdated perception that without roles you would have no cooperation and only chaos. Why do I say it is outdated? Games have had co-op play in them for a great number of years and most don’t have tanks and healers. They work perfectly fine. Hell, the Diablo series (a Blizzard franchise) is a perfect example of this. If anything, the holy trinity limits creative freedom for the designers of any game. GW2 isn’t just doing something truly revolutionary, it is doing what should’ve been done from the very start.

7. Structured PvP is actually based on skill rather than gear. It’s true that a lot of players are complaining about profession imbalances and such but you have to wonder about that. Unlike in WoW where there is a gear progression in their arena system, GW2’s structured PvP system puts everyone on a level playing field in terms of gear. Yes, WoW does have tournaments where everyone gets the same gear but why can’t that be for regular arena play? Why does someone have to have an advantage, even a very small one, over anyone else? The only advantages you should have over your opponent is your experience in PvP, your skill as a player, and your cunning as a tactician.

8. Level scaling makes it so that low level content does not become obsolete. If you have a friend that has just started playing the game you can help them level in the low level zones without feeling like you’ve totally wasted your time. Killing monsters, doing hearts, discovering waypoints/points of interests/vistas, and doing events will still net you rewards even when you’re max level. Lower level dungeons will also feel challenging when you set foot in them in your higher levels. There’s no need for a heroic mode. Because if GW2’s level cap was raised to 90 or something like that then those “heroic mode” 80 dungeons will become obsolete. I dare say Arena Net has solved the problem with content becoming obsolete. Yes, your gear stays the same so you’re still godly. But hey, in any RPG you should feel stronger against monsters you’ve killed before.

9. Everyone gets their own loot. Why was loot shared in the first place? Well, it was a system devised to artificially extend the life of a game. If gear was harder to attain, you would be playing it longer in order to attain that gear. A system where other players had a chance to take from you what you want/need only exacerbates this. The problem is that loot can become a major issue between members of a guild or just players in general. You don’t need this drama in a game; it doesn’t serve any purpose. Blizzard made it so that in Diablo 3 has an independent loot system but they won’t do the same for WoW because it would fundamentally change the game. It’s too late for WoW but that’s why we’ve got GW2.

10. Gear is rewarded for hard work instead of good luck. While the game does have random loot, the best loot can only be attained through effort. It may take a really long time to get that legendary weapon in GW2 but at least you’ll know that you can attain it eventually. In WoW, with a random number generator you may not ever attain a legendary in the course of your life time. You may be lucky enough to see one drop for your raid group but chances are it will be going to someone else.

This is by no means an exhaustive list. I can name many more things but I’ll leave it at that. What are things that you feel that GW2 does better than WoW or any other MMORPG? What are things you think WoW does better than GW2? I know max level raiding will come to mind for many people.

I disagree with 4 and 8, but the others are spot on.

I thought it was a fanboy rule to not compare GW2 with other games because it is SO revolutionary

I honestly hate lvl scaling. I am 80 and I still don’t find a reason to go to low lvl areas other than to maybe to dungeon, even then I just sit at its entrance.

I only disagree with 8, this is because underleveling is incredibly unrewarding and insignificant, especially at lower leveled areas. It is not worth spending time grinding in lower zones, unless you are going for 100% world completion.

Everything else is spot on.

I like doing lower level content because I value variation over what I call RPS (Reward Per Second). What I mean with that is that I don’t need maximum rewards for everything I do. I just like to move around and do different things instead of grinding the same 3 events for karma because I think I need to.

So I agree with point 8 from my point of view.

1) Yes, I agree with this completely. The game is starting to show it’s age. Trying to compete with people in the new Pandaria zones is ridiculous on my server.
2) Level 25 guild, everybody can rez. Never saw this as a big deal. Release and run back in a raid, it’s rude to wait for healers to rez you after a wipe.
3) The games don’t treat experience the same way. WoW gives a ton more XP for quests and killing mobs, so it probably averages out.
4) Most damage in WoW is avoidable too. You’re not supposed to stand in fires, remember!
6) As a tank I miss not being able to in this game.
8) I don’t care for the level scaling.

WoW and GW2 are completely different games and have different kind of audiences. I really wish people would stop comparing them to each other. A person can enjoy both games and play both games. It isn’t healthy to fixate solely on one game.

1. Mob tagging – I like it but this is not unique to gw2.
2. Reviving -Works great for gw2. Needed for non holy trinity.
3. Rewards – Not unique to gw2 but im pretty sure wow has started this too…
4. Avoid – Needed for non holy trinity.
5. meh…
6. Holy Trinity – still exists somewhat. People actually like healing and tank roles still and they still do them in this game. Groups still ask for them. I’ve seen it quite a bit in chat actually.
7. Pvp gear vs skill – I wouldnt say one is better than the other. It completely depends on the players playstyle. Some players like that other aspect of character growth. Also I’ve played both types of pvp but I’ve never cried that someone with better gear “had no skill” even if it was true….it just made me want to down em all the more.
8. Scaling – broken. No reason to do it.
9. Opinion.
10. Wow and gw2 have very similar gear grinds. Its token and mat based pretty much. The major difference is the diff the gear stats have on game play. It has a larger impact.

I’m getting tired of hearing GW2 being compared to WoW, regardless if positively or negatively.
Just because GW2 is now an MMO it doesn’t meant it compares to WoW, it’s a completely different game based on other things.

Taking WoW or any other traditional MMO in a discussion about GW2 means not having understood GW2 to begin with.

Red Falcon.8257:

I’m getting tired of hearing GW2 being compared to WoW, regardless if positively or negatively.
Just because GW2 is now an MMO it doesn’t meant it compares to WoW, it’s a completely different game based on other things.

Taking WoW or any other traditional MMO in a discussion about GW2 means not having understood GW2 to begin with.

I respect your opinion but I wouldn’t venture so far as to say they’re completely different games. Just like how WoW took the best aspects of Everquest and made a more streamlined game, GW2 also takes some of WoW’s best features and improves on them. I know, my post was really long but I’m hoping you didn’t just judge it by the title.

Zeromius, most of these posts have tried to shoehorn one game into the other, and I think people are tired of it. Not that games can’t learn from each other but I think the underlying philosophy of both games are different.

WoW is about gear, raiding, perfecting specs and min/maxing.
GW2 is about exploration and socialization.

These two don’t seem to have much overlap.

zeromius.1604:

I respect your opinion but I wouldn’t venture so far as to say they’re completely different games. Just like how WoW took the best aspects of Everquest and made a more streamlined game, GW2 also takes some of WoW’s best features and improves on them. I know, my post was really long but I’m hoping you didn’t just judge it by the title.

I read your post and I agree with your points, but it’s detrimental to continually make comparisons between GW2 and traditional MMOs or their features.
Comparisons imply both parties have some values, GW2 stands out by itself without needing to compare this game to theme park slavery camps.

There will be always people think those are flaws and those who think they are improvements.
Infact you got a post above from a wow fanboy doing exactly this.

Just forget the outdated, stale theme parks who enslave players into repetitional content for illusionary rewards, they are like the lottery; it’s not a game but an addiction system to draw people in and milk sub money out of them regardless of the consequences on the person.

People are just back at gaming and doing away with working and being enslaved, it’s time to stop looking back and sail forward, looking at the future.

robot.9134:

1. Mob tagging – I like it but this is not unique to gw2.
2. Reviving -Works great for gw2. Needed for non holy trinity.
3. Rewards – Not unique to gw2 but im pretty sure wow has started this too…
4. Avoid – Needed for non holy trinity.
5. meh…
6. Holy Trinity – still exists somewhat. People actually like healing and tank roles still and they still do them in this game. Groups still ask for them. I’ve seen it quite a bit in chat actually.
7. Pvp gear vs skill – I wouldnt say one is better than the other. It completely depends on the players playstyle. Some players like that other aspect of character growth. Also I’ve played both types of pvp but I’ve never cried that someone with better gear “had no skill” even if it was true….it just made me want to down em all the more.
8. Scaling – broken. No reason to do it.
9. Opinion.
10. Wow and gw2 have very similar gear grinds. Its token and mat based pretty much. The major difference is the diff the gear stats have on game play. It has a larger impact.

1. This is not a “what is unique about GW2” thread, this is a “10 things that GW2 did better than WoW” thread. So it being unique is irrelevant.

2. Yes, but it provides more variety for all players involved. Making it so everyone can rez ultimately makes the game a little more interesting for everyone.

3. The uniqueness is completely irrelevant, it does not matter in the slightest. And no, WoW does not reward you for everything. Virtually every task you complete in GW2 will give you exp and other rewards. GW2 is the first game that I’ve played, that you can safely level up in different ways (WvW, progressing through PvE the normal way, grinding events etc.).

4. It still makes gameplay more enjoyable.

6. This does not mean there is a holy trinity. A holy trinity forces you to be a part of it, you don’t have to. You can choose to specialize, and become a decent tank, a decent healer and so on, and more power to you if you wish. The difference is, you’re not restricted to those. This makes all classes welcome, no class is really shunned (generally speaking).

8. It’s not as useful as it could be, correct. However, you can still get valuable things at 80 in level 10 zones, it’s just less likely. Thus, while no working perfectly, it still provides a significant increase to the fun factor (by making mobs a slight challenge), and making it so you can get moderately valuable things in the process. It’s still an upside, even if it’s not perfect.

9. How could anyone disagree with this? Sure it’s opinion, it’s also opinion that Mass Effect 3 looks better than Chrono Trigger. Some people like antique feel. The system itself is, by any system of measurement, better.

Overall, to me, it seemed you weren’t interested in the truth of the matter, but were instead interested in defending WoW. That’s fine, I respect that you may like it more. But there’s no reason to be dishonest. It being unique or not is irrelevant, the things mentioned are better in GW2 than they are in WoW, for the most part.

I disagree with quite a few things you say, but I’m only gonna comment on 2.

6. I think people blew the whole trinity “issue” way out of proportion to begin with, it actually has a place and serves a purpose, not to mention some people enjoy playing that way. and even if it were a problem the way GW2 handles it is poor, they handle it by limiting your ability to build your character the way you want, you don’t have the option of building a proper tank or healer no matter how much you might want to, it’s a poor solution to a non-issue.

9. I think shared loot is a much better way to do it, I like sorting through the loot and dividing it up between the group because it feels more social, it also can make gear easier to obtain by eliminating the possibility that useless things drop for people, and the only things you are likely to get are things you need, you’ll get less overall loot but most of it will be relevant to you in some way.

1. Is a great system in GW2, I agree.

2. Is tied to the whole “downed” system borrowed from Borderlands (if it was in another game previous to that I missed it). It’s not comparable to WoW because WoW doesn’t work that way. I have no preference between straight dying in WoW or being downed with a chance to come back in GW2.

3. I disagree with this. I don’t think the vast pools of XP gained from crafting are a good thing at all. People getting to max level without actually playing the game is never good.

4. No, damage is not always avoidable in this game. In fact lots of dungeons and events have unavoidable damage. Lots of damage in WoW is avoidable too. The ability to dodge is cool, but that doesn’t mean you can avoid everything.

5. I don’t see how this matters at all. As far as targeting and LoS goes in GW2, they’re both awful, buggy and vastly inferior to WoW.

6. I’m not convinced no trinity is a good thing. It would make getting groups faster, but Arena Net is against pugging for some reason so that’s irrelevant. Dungeons feel like an unorganized mess and the overall group gameplay is sloppy.

7. PvP and standardized gear in GW2 is better. Now if only the controls, targeting, cameras, variety of options (like profession colored name plates, pet controls, etc) were as good. Since the controls are terrible, PvP is terrible. Controls make the game.

8. Level scaling is the biggest waste of time in GW2. Challenging low level content for the same low level rewards. Even when you (seldom) do get a piece of gear close to your level, it’s below you and vendor trash. Awful system and one of the reasons I’m not playing GW2 hardly at all anymore.

9. I’ve never had a problem with loot systems in WoW and don’t have a preference between the two. But the GW2 loot system is decent.

10. This one makes me think you’ve never even played WoW, or at least not in years and years. There are several currencies and ways to get/buy loot. You get what you earn. Ya, some stuff you’ll have to wait for a drop, but how is that different than any other game? In GW2 you have to fight with the DR system to get drops to craft your gear. You’ll get full raid gear before you can farm up mats in GW2 with the DR.

All that said, there are many things GW2 does well. Some things it even does better than WoW. In the end, however, WoW does more better than GW2 and the first thing, one that affects everyone, is the controls. Controls are VASTLY superior to this game. If you make the best game in the world and then put terrible controls in it so it’s a pain to play, you just made a bad game. All else becomes irrelevant. Other systems, like the lack of a DR when farming, currency systems (to buy gear) are better in WoW, social systems and guild systems are better. GW2 is pretty, has a unique way of questing (no, it’s no dynamic) and enjoyable combat (or it would if the cameras and other controls were better).

robot.9134:

6. Holy Trinity – still exists somewhat. People actually like healing and tank roles still and they still do them in this game. Groups still ask for them. I’ve seen it quite a bit in chat actually.

I love seeing this in chat. They might as well say “Group of baddies LF1M baddie to zerg/deathrun a dungeon.”

I’ll leave this here:

Zoridium JackL.7463:

6. I think people blew the whole trinity “issue” way out of proportion to begin with, it actually has a place and serves a purpose, not to mention some people enjoy playing that way. and even if it were a problem the way GW2 handles it is poor, they handle it by limiting your ability to build your character the way you want, you don’t have the option of building a proper tank or healer no matter how much you might want to, it’s a poor solution to a non-issue.

While there are great comments being made here I wanted to respond to yours. I think the most contentious is the holy trinity. I don’t think it’s necessarily a broken system but some people may find it to be. It’s not so much an issue itself but it does limit the design choices the developers have available to them. Having dedicated tanks and healers would force designers to design content specifically with the holy trinity group make ups in mind. When you move away from this you create the potential for a larger variety of content that can be tackled in many creative ways. Notice I said potential rather than saying that this is true right now in the game’s current state. I think there are some balance issues but like any new MMORPG it will get ironed out as time goes by.

I think that when you mention limitations on how you want to play your character you are speaking on limitations of what your character can do. No, I agree that the game doesn’t let you play a dedicated healer or tank even if you want to. The game’s dungeons simply weren’t designed with them in mind because if they were then healers and tanks will become mandatory. Allow me to elaborate. If you have a build that lets you absorb a great deal of damage and draw all enemy attacks on you alone (a tank) but the dungeon is designed in such a way that this particular build is unnecessary then you trivialize the dungeon. It’s all about balance.

Once again, I don’t think the holy trinity system is broken. It’s just very limiting in terms of game design potential. I’m a former WoW player. I never hated the game for it’s holy trinity system. I loved the instant queues I got as a tank and the almost instant ones as a healer. As a tank, I can As a DPS, aside from long queue times, I found that my role was not as important as the tank or healer. Yes, I know things don’t die without DPS. It’s a matter of how much control you had and not whether you were needed at all, CC not included. Maybe it’s just me but in GW2 I found that everyone had equal responsibility and all players were vital to the success of the group.

zeromius.1604:

Zoridium JackL.7463:

6. I think people blew the whole trinity “issue” way out of proportion to begin with, it actually has a place and serves a purpose, not to mention some people enjoy playing that way. and even if it were a problem the way GW2 handles it is poor, they handle it by limiting your ability to build your character the way you want, you don’t have the option of building a proper tank or healer no matter how much you might want to, it’s a poor solution to a non-issue.

While there are great comments being made here I wanted to respond to yours. I think the most contentious is the holy trinity. I don’t think it’s necessarily a broken system but some people may find it to be. It’s not so much an issue itself but it does limit the design choices the developers have available to them. Having dedicated tanks and healers would force designers to design content specifically with the holy trinity group make ups in mind. When you move away from this you create the potential for a larger variety of content that can be tackled in many creative ways. Notice I said potential rather than saying that this is true right now in the game’s current state. I think there are some balance issues but like any new MMORPG it will get ironed out as time goes by.

I think that when you mention limitations on how you want to play your character you are speaking on limitations of what your character can do. No, I agree that the game doesn’t let you play a dedicated healer or tank even if you want to. The game’s dungeons simply weren’t designed with them in mind because if they were then healers and tanks will become mandatory. Allow me to elaborate. If you have a build that lets you absorb a great deal of damage and draw all enemy attacks on you alone (a tank) but the dungeon is designed in such a way that this particular build is unnecessary then you trivialize the dungeon. It’s all about balance.

Once again, I don’t think the holy trinity system is broken. It’s just very limiting in terms of game design potential. I’m a former WoW player. I never hated the game for it’s holy trinity system. I loved the instant queues I got as a tank and the almost instant ones as a healer. As a tank, I can As a DPS, aside from long queue times, I found that my role was not as important as the tank or healer. Yes, I know things don’t die without DPS. It’s a matter of how much control you had and not whether you were needed at all, CC not included. Maybe it’s just me but in GW2 I found that everyone had equal responsibility and all players were vital to the success of the group.

I disagree, it’s very easy to not design content that requires the use of the trinity, in fact it’s better to design content without the forced use of the trinity than it is to just remove the trinity. and I can play without the trinity in other MMOs, I frequently do in TSW, despite a majority of players using the trinity it isn’t required by any means, it’s just the easiest way to do it.

the problem with WoW is that it forces you to use the trinity if you want to use their group tool because of its auto grouping, but a fair few if its dungeons can be run without the trinity if you can find people who want to run it that way, it just takes more communication and a little more hard work.

again, I would think it’s a much better idea to open up your dungeons to alternate styles of play rather than limit your players ability to play how they want. just because the trinity is the easiest way to do things doesn’t make it mandatory, and that’s really the major misconception amongst players. people will always run with the trinity where they can, not only is it the path of least resistance but some people also find it the most enjoyable way to play, removing it was a bad move. rather than actually addressing the issue (the issue being how player perceive how dungeons “must” be run) they put a band-aid over it and made it look like they’d fixed the problem.

this is why I enjoy TSW, I can run without the trinity if I can find 4 other people, it’s not the easiest way to run the dungeons, but It most certainly can be done, in GW2 I don’t have a choice either way, I am forced to run the dungeons without the trinity, which is the exact issue you are complaining about but instead of being forced to use the trinity I’m being forced to not use it.

again, it’s a poor mans solution to a non-issue.

Light.8253:

6) As a tank I miss not being able to in this game.

You certainly can tank in this game; dungeons go far more smoothly with one.

Zoridium JackL, for some reason it won’t let me quote. But anyway, I think we can both agree that WoW makes the trinity a necessity. It’s not absolutely necessary to run dungeons with because there are always skilled players looking for a challenge that go with unique builds and have strange group make ups. For the most part, the trinity is standard fare.

I don’t think Arena Net has taken anything away. It’s like saying that I am forced to not use a railgun in Modern Warfare 3 when such a weapon isn’t available in the game. The holy trinity was not removed from the game; it simply wasn’t made available to begin with. I’m not trying to be a smart kitten or anything but that was simply how Arena Net decided to look at it when building their game from the ground up.

Then again, we both could be wrong as some people say you can have tanks and healers; they’re just played differently than you would traditionally. Tanks (guardians) aren’t really damage sponges but they do have support skills that protect the group. Elementalists and rangers have AOE heals but they’re not super powerful heals. That’s where the roll mechanic comes into play. You avoid or mitigate damage so that uber heals aren’t necessary.

It’s a fairly new design philosophy and it will take time for players to adjust to. The philosophy behind it is sound but the execution could use some work. I personally don’t think GW 2 is revolutionary so much as evolutionary.

put out 6 and 8 from that list and u re fine..
about 6 )a)Think about a trinity system that giving u the right to changing builds whenever u are b) all classes can use tanky heal and dps builds with kinda differences between classes.
about im not feeling rewarded about reaching the cap lvl(except the gear skins) and more..

@ Red Falcon. Agree’d on the WoW comparison.

Only thing on the list I don’t like is 10. Random loot is fun for me…token grinds feel more tedious.

And regarding 8, I’m surprised to see complaints about the level scaling. I ran a level 35 dungeon and a level 60 dungeon today on my level 80 character, and it was still fun, relatively challenging, and rewarding. Great system, imo.

(Barely played WoW, so ignoring that comparison)

I think a LOT of people are kinda missing the point on #8.
This IS an MMO. The level scaling is awesome because you may be 70, but what if one of your friends picks up the game and is say level 20. This allows you to group together and do content together without the level 70 person 1 shotting everything and obliterating the XP curve.

On a lighter note I find PLENTY of reason (cough copper cough) to go back to low level zones and run around.

This game.
This game.
It does do a LOT of things right.

Lymain rewarding like?

won’t let me quote either, ANet needs to get on that.

“Zoridium JackL, for some reason it won’t let me quote. But anyway, I think we can both agree that WoW makes the trinity a necessity. It’s not absolutely necessary to run dungeons with because there are always skilled players looking for a challenge that go with unique builds and have strange group make ups. For the most part, the trinity is standard fare.

I don’t think Arena Net has taken anything away. It’s like saying that I am forced to not use a railgun in Modern Warfare 3 when such a weapon isn’t available in the game. The holy trinity was not removed from the game; it simply wasn’t made available to begin with. I’m not trying to be a smart kitten or anything but that was simply how Arena Net decided to look at it when building their game from the ground up.

Then again, we both could be wrong as some people say you can have tanks and healers; they’re just played differently than you would traditionally. Tanks (guardians) aren’t really damage sponges but they do have support skills that protect the group. Elementalists and rangers have AOE heals but they’re not super powerful heals. That’s where the roll mechanic comes into play. You avoid or mitigate damage so that uber heals aren’t necessary.

It’s a fairly new design philosophy and it will take time for players to adjust to. The philosophy behind it is sound but the execution could use some work. I personally don’t think GW 2 is revolutionary so much as evolutionary."

WoW didn’t force it originally, it’s the way the game has adapted to teh player base, everyone was using the trinity, so what started as Blizz supporting the trinity turned into Blizzard designing around the trinity, I haven’t played in a while but last time I was there it was still possible to run without the trinity, it was just difficult and you had to try and butcher your ay around the mechanics.

that being said the “evolution” (I wouldn’t call GW2 anything more than another MMO personally) shouldn’t be removing the players ability to build tanks/healers, the evolution (or more appropriately de-evolution) should be opening the dungeons up to alternate group compositions, don’t you agree that giving the players the ability to play the way they want is better than making them play the way you want them to? I don’t like the way ANet handles the trinity anymore than the way Blizz handles it, but I certainly wouldn’t call ANets way a step forward.

again I’m gonna talk TSW (I try not to fanboy to hard) and the way they handle it, the skill wheel is open to building well outside the trinity if you want and the dungeons, while easier with the trinity (task delegation and all that) they are all for the most part do-able without it, even then I fear they may go awry because the new LFG tool heavily supports the trinity and not much else, but I’m waiting to see how they handle the community feedback on adding a more detailed comment to the LFG tool.

either way I think it’s a much better approach than simply restricting peoples ability to play how they want with regards to the trinity, something WoW and GW2 have in common, they are just at different ends of the spectrum.

I’ll say it again, the “solution” they use doesn’t actually address the real issue and if anything makes it worse than it was, and what’s worse is that they get praised for doing it because people don’t understand the issue in the first place (which funnily enough IS the issue in the first place)

the reason this is a fun topic is seeing everyone’s response to 8 and the use of the word grind. i noticed today that i completely stopped looking at levels which is AWESOME!

i am becoming less able to understand why some people need a tangible reward for everything they do than i was the day before.

You forgot the most important thing. A friendly community

@brickforlife huh? Wow community is pretty friendly

Diaboligue.8795:

@brickforlife huh? Wow community is pretty friendly

I’ve played WoW for a few months and it seems that most of the encountered community are elitists and trolls. Rest of it is pretty nice though.

Heres my top 10.
1: This
2: Isnt
3: WoW
4: Stop
5: Comparing
6: it to WoW.
7:Who
8:Cares
9:About
10: WoW?

Seriously, i see more Talk about WoW, rather than the game itself. If WoW’s to talk-worthy go play it then Dont complain that WoW is better. if its so much Better, why are you on GW? o-o

brickforlife.1364:

Diaboligue.8795:

@brickforlife huh? Wow community is pretty friendly

I’ve played WoW for a few months and it seems that most of the encountered community are elitists and trolls. Rest of it is pretty nice though.

that’s only because they have a higher total number of subs, so their are more people who are like that, but believe it or not once you get past the outer layers of trolls and elitists you can find a really great group of people who just want to play and have a good time, funnily enough most of them are on the RP servers, the people that trolls and elitists often kitten on, it’s like the bad rep that some RPers get is an anti-troll spray and goldshire is the magnet that keeps invading trolls away from the nice places.

@brikforlife I don’t know why but I have encountered more elitists in gw2 than in wow. But well i have only played spvp and tpvp in gw2 so I really don’t know about pve. It is so annoying to play tpvp with people who want lead everything and only he is right.wow forums compared to gw2 are pretty bad but in game community is pretty nice.
Edit: just checked gw2 pvp forums and there is a lot people tellinng how many tpvp games they have won (and that why they are right in everything) and full of l2p comments and so on

Kimhyuna.1035:

I only disagree with 8, this is because underleveling is incredibly unrewarding and insignificant, especially at lower leveled areas. It is not worth spending time grinding …

I love downleveling, it am a huge explorer and completionist and I hated outleveling missions in other games and never getting any credit for following up on them. You might be right that the payoff for grinding isn’t worth it in lower levels … but I don’t think the point of down leveling is to facilitate grind anyway – the GW team has mentioned that they want to downplay grind. For me it’s fantastic and, I feel, one of their best ideas in a game full of great ideas.

Jack of Tears.9458:

Kimhyuna.1035:

I only disagree with 8, this is because underleveling is incredibly unrewarding and insignificant, especially at lower leveled areas. It is not worth spending time grinding …

I love downleveling, it am a huge explorer and completionist and I hated outleveling missions in other games and never getting any credit for following up on them. You might be right that the payoff for grinding isn’t worth it in lower levels … but I don’t think the point of down leveling is to facilitate grind anyway – the GW team has mentioned that they want to downplay grind. For me it’s fantastic and, I feel, one of their best ideas in a game full of great ideas.

at least it is somewhat rewarding/fun, in a traditional scenario, those areas would be completely lost on a max level character.

Diaboligue.8795:

@brickforlife huh? Wow community is pretty friendly

LOL no it’s not. I used to think the GW community was great, but the community starts with the company and seeing how Anet has behaved since the launch of GW2, my opinion of the GW community has soured also.

Believe it or not, EVE has one of the best communities in gaming.

Removing the Holy Trinity was a mistake. Dungeons are zerg fest. Spvp matches are zerg fest. WvW is a huge zerg fest. Why? Because there are no real healers to counter the zergs. So the only counter in Gw2 to a zerg is with another zerg. Also, removing the Holy Trinity has caused every profession in Gw2 to be overly normalized to make up for not having real healers and tanks…

I never intended for this thread to be about which game is better. It isn’t top 10 things that make WoW suck or even top 10 reasons why GW2 is better. I think some people may have misunderstood and it’s probably my fault for using this title. It can be easily misread. It was meant as a mostly objective observation of each game’s mechanics/systems. By mostly objective I mean that it can’t be totally free of bias because different people have different preferences. While the idea that when you died you would actually lose experience would seem abhorrent to many there are those that would welcome such a penalty system.

WoW is a better established game and that no doubt gives it a huge advantage over any of its competitors. I played it from Vanilla up to Cataclysm before I stopped. What kept me playing wasn’t the game so much as it was the people. There was a thriving community in the game and within my own guild.

The game itself was pretty fun up until you did all there was to do or at least until you couldn’t make any more progress. I left my original post with a question about what everyone else thought that WoW did better than GW2 in. No one has brought up their own top 10 list of WoW over GW2. It’s been a while since I’ve played WoW so it’s hard to say from my own experiences what WoW does better. Both games are continuing to evolve and they both have theirs ups and downs.

With all that being said though, I think even Blizzard is aware of WoW’s aging mechanics like monster tagging, corpse running, shared loot, etc. They do believe in giving players their own loot as was demonstrated in Diablo 3. It’s simply not feasible to make such drastic changes to WoW as it would fundamentally change the game itself and in the eyes of dedicated players, undermine its integrity.

By the losing experience system I wasn’t referring to WoW by the way. WoW really shook things up when the penalty for death was a repair bill. I was referring to WoW’s predecessors like Everquest and even some its contemporaries like Final Fantasy XI.

I think that the so called “removal” of the holy trinity is similar to how the Fallout series went from turn based to real time with Fallout 3. Many people hated it and said Fallout 3 wasn’t really Fallout. I haven’t played Fallout 3 myself but I don’t see how the change could’ve made it a bad game. I want to drive a lambourghini (holy trinity) in Battlefield 3 but I can’t because they removed it and now I’m stuck with tanks and jets. They’re forcing me to play the game how they want. The holy trinity wasn’t removed from the game; it was never in the game to begin with.