Guild Wars 2

That’s ridiculous.
It takes me about 20 mins max (because of loading screens) to farm 1 key on a warrior and complete that level 10 personal story at level 6.
8.3 hours for 25 keys.
Making 119 gold takes forever unless you’re playing the market.
Items in black lion chests are mostly useless unless you’re still leveling crafting, still leveling alts, and actually like the skins you get with scraps. When you can use 119 gold to get a far better looking weapon.
With 8.3 hours of farming keys you could farm dungeons for all kinds of useful drops.
The chance of getting a permanent type item from the chest is less than a 0.00%.

Why are keys still so expensive a year into the game?

Because they want you to use real money, but in the end the results are lackluster.

RNG boxes need to go, its getting insulting.

katniss.6735:

Items in black lion chests are mostly useless

So the problem is that you can’t afford to pay real money for items that are mostly useless.

AntiGw.9367:

katniss.6735:

Items in black lion chests are mostly useless

So the problem is that you can’t afford to pay real money for items that are mostly useless.

Maybe the real problem is that people perceive the chests as useless.

AntiGw.9367:

katniss.6735:

Items in black lion chests are mostly useless

So the problem is that you can’t afford to pay real money for items that are mostly useless.

^ This
The sale isn’t for Gold>Gem players, it’s for Gem Buyers. In fact, all sales are for Gem Buyers. If you think you’re going to score using gem conversions, then you really need reevaluate how the Gem Store works.

I buy my gems with real money and I still wouldn’t buy a single BL key with them. I understand the allure of gambling to some people, and if you’re paying to play the gamble boxes, then by all means, but I prefer to pay money for something I know I will get. To show ANet that, I bought a couple of those F&F skins they put up. Hopefully they do it more often so I can continue to speak with my wallet about what they should and should not do.

Sorry but Gold for Gems never was meant to be the primary means to buy Gems. They want you to spend cash, they need you to spend cash. This is how a cash shop game stays open.

The gold to gem conversion will continue to cost more gold as more gold gets put into the economy. They’ve increased rewards significantly over the last year but haven’t changed the gold sinks.

Karizee.8076:

The gold to gem conversion will continue to cost more gold as more gold gets put into the economy. They’ve increased rewards significantly over the last year but haven’t changed the gold sinks.

Don’t forget crafting to 500, ascended weapons, and the karma nerf. But you are right, people (mostly hardcore people) grind for gold too fast compared to the current sinks.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Karizee.8076:

The gold to gem conversion will continue to cost more gold as more gold gets put into the economy. They’ve increased rewards significantly over the last year but haven’t changed the gold sinks.

Don’t forget crafting to 500, ascended weapons, and the karma nerf. But you are right, people (mostly hardcore people) grind for gold too fast compared to the current sinks.

The crafting to 500 was merely exchanging gold between players but you’re right about a small sink for ascended weapons (the bloodstone bricks reagent). Even still, that’s more of a one time cost and not an ongoing sink compared to the ongoing stream of gold into the system.

Charak.9761:

Because they want you to use real money, but in the end the results are lackluster.

RNG boxes need to go, its getting insulting.

I think u are right on the money part :P

And seriously it will only get more expensive as the supply of gold out stripe the demand of gems.

If any Anet economist is reading this, you know u need to introduce more gold sink to balance supply and demand of gold vs gems. Something ridiculously expensive like players housing. Maybe your own castle in WvW for a million gold?

Karizee.8076:

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Karizee.8076:

The gold to gem conversion will continue to cost more gold as more gold gets put into the economy. They’ve increased rewards significantly over the last year but haven’t changed the gold sinks.

Don’t forget crafting to 500, ascended weapons, and the karma nerf. But you are right, people (mostly hardcore people) grind for gold too fast compared to the current sinks.

The crafting to 500 was merely exchanging gold between players but you’re right about a small sink for ascended weapons (the bloodstone bricks reagent). Even still, that’s more of a one time cost and not an ongoing sink compared to the ongoing stream of gold into the system.

Karma never generated gold from the game, only from trading with other players.

Every time you exchange gold with another player 15% leaves the economy. It all adds up.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Karizee.8076:

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Karizee.8076:

The gold to gem conversion will continue to cost more gold as more gold gets put into the economy. They’ve increased rewards significantly over the last year but haven’t changed the gold sinks.

Don’t forget crafting to 500, ascended weapons, and the karma nerf. But you are right, people (mostly hardcore people) grind for gold too fast compared to the current sinks.

The crafting to 500 was merely exchanging gold between players but you’re right about a small sink for ascended weapons (the bloodstone bricks reagent). Even still, that’s more of a one time cost and not an ongoing sink compared to the ongoing stream of gold into the system.

Karma never generated gold from the game, only from trading with other players.

Every time you exchange gold with another player 15% leaves the economy. It all adds up.

Yes, but the trading post tax was not increased (not that I think it should be). I guess it would matter if trading increased significantly over the life of the game vs. a one time flurry of activity.

Karizee.8076:

(…)
Karma never generated gold from the game, only from trading with other players.

I don’t know about you, but when I bought the jewelery boxes for karma … that was pretty straight forward cash from the game for me.

If that made a dent in the overall picture might be debatable, but since karma has been changed I would guess it was noticeable.

Charak.9761:

Because they want you to use real money, but in the end the results are lackluster.

RNG boxes need to go, its getting insulting.

MAYBE you find it insulting because you can see through the concept. There’s people who can’t, who are paying kittenloads of money on the gamble.
It IS insulting, and rightfully so. There are people walking this earth whose stupidity you couldn’t grasp in one lifetime.
I’m torn between finding it sad and finding it funny as hell.

Bit off topic but could someone explain why stuff is always so expensive in in-game shops? Buying everything can easily cost thousand euros (especially ftp games).

At least I would spend much more if I got more in return. Now I rarely bother.

Game isn’t subscription based, it’s cash shop based. So they need to replace a $15 a month subscription from all with items bought by few. Therefore the price.

Wethospu.6437:

Bit off topic but could someone explain why stuff is always so expensive in in-game shops? Buying everything can easily cost thousand euros (especially ftp games).

At least I would spend much more if I got more in return. Now I rarely bother.

My theory:
At one point it was established amongst game creators that it’s more profitable to go for ‘whales’ and regular buyers than target a wider audience. Apparently a lower price isn’t compensated for by a higher number of buyers, so they are trying to get as much money out of the relatively ‘unflexible’ (can’t remember the correct term right now) amount of transactions they get.

I could see myself buying inventory slots and the like for real money, but i sure as hell won’t do it for the current price, so yeah.

Wethospu.6437:

Bit off topic but could someone explain why stuff is always so expensive in in-game shops? Buying everything can easily cost thousand euros (especially ftp games).

At least I would spend much more if I got more in return. Now I rarely bother.

Because it costs money do develop and maintain a game.

Let me get this right OP…..

You are angry that they are having a sale in a cash shop you don’t use, and the sale item in question is for something you see no value in anyway, and you are aware of a better way of getting said sale item in the first place?

My deepest sympathies for you dealing with this heinous act.

lordkrall.7241:

Wethospu.6437:

Bit off topic but could someone explain why stuff is always so expensive in in-game shops? Buying everything can easily cost thousand euros (especially ftp games).

At least I would spend much more if I got more in return. Now I rarely bother.

Because it costs money do develop and maintain a game.

So instead of offering stuff cheaper and making me spend much more they keep higher prices and barely get anything?

This happens in pretty much any game. I feel like spending 10-20 euros to support a game. I enter their cash shop and look what I get. Maybe 2 hats or RNG stuff. Yeah, not going to happen.

I’m upset about the exchange rate because I’ve been waiting for keys to go on sale for a long time, but the conversion is atrocious now.

Behellagh.1468:

Game isn’t subscription based, it’s cash shop based. So they need to replace a $15 a month subscription from all with items bought by few. Therefore the price.

Guild Wars 2 is basically pay to play after you want new armor. “Oh, you want new armor? Buy the armor skins from the gem store or buy the transmutation stones for your armor. Oh, and the transmutation stones come in increments of 5 or 10. Have fun spending money on transmutation stones you don’t need!”

They already replaced the $15 a month subscription fee with the insane amount of RNG they place in the gemstore every few weeks, and then some. They could lower the prices by 90% and they would still have a steady income due to all the people giving in to the RNG.

Wethospu.6437:

So instead of offering stuff cheaper and making me spend much more they keep higher prices and barely get anything?

This happens in pretty much any game. I feel like spending 10-20 euros to support a game. I enter their cash shop and look what I get. Maybe 2 hats or RNG stuff. Yeah, not going to happen.

Do you really think they would have the higher price if they would earn more with a lower price?
I would assume that they have a rather good understanding about which would earn them the most (they do have an economist on their staff after all, and one can assume that he would have way better knowledge and/or understanding about stuff like these than random people on the forums).

Clearly they earn enough money to be satisfied with the current model, so why would they change?

Had the skins been in the gem shop, I’d have purchased a few of them… They look great, but gambling to get them is just silly.

Galtrix.7369:

Behellagh.1468:

Game isn’t subscription based, it’s cash shop based. So they need to replace a $15 a month subscription from all with items bought by few. Therefore the price.

Guild Wars 2 is basically pay to play after you want new armor. “Oh, you want new armor? Buy the armor skins from the gem store or buy the transmutation stones for your armor. Oh, and the transmutation stones come in increments of 5 or 10. Have fun spending money on transmutation stones you don’t need!”

They already replaced the $15 a month subscription fee with the insane amount of RNG they place in the gemstore every few weeks, and then some. They could lower the prices by 90% and they would still have a steady income due to all the people giving in to the RNG.

So you are going to go with the whole buns come in six packs but hot dogs in 10 argument? Sorry things coming in 5 or 10 has more to do with the number of fingers on our hands then any “ebil conspiracy” notion that crystals come in five packs so you are forced to by two packs so you can skin an entire set.

I grant you the RNG with ticket and ticket scraps. As I’ve said before that if you are able to figure out the average cost to get enough tickets to trade for a skin that it would make the cost of a monocle in EVE, which caused a big uproar over cash shop costs for purely cosmetic item, look down right affordable. And this is where they’ve fallen down. But it must still be a big money maker because this wouldn’t have become status quo with every 3rd living world update if buying keys dried up. So instead they throw us a bone, making sets only 1 ticket so we buy now while it’s “affordable” before the price goes through the roof.

But they have to hit their sale goals and as long as whales are buying keys, equating them to the cost of their habits like their morning Starbucks or carton of cigs or 24 pack of beer for the weekend, no reason for ANet to change.

So far, I have bought about 50 keys by gems and gather enough tickets for two lovely Halloween weapon skins. I must say that I love the skins and I commit to buy it with real money because I barely have any time at all to farm golds. Farming keys by repeating the story multiple times is boring work. If, let’s say, Anet put the individual skin on sale, each skin would stagger around (10 scraps/25% drop rate) x (1680 gem/25 keys)= 2688 gems. I doubt any of us would be happy. Lower than that price, the weapon would not be as rare and less coveted.

Maybe I have payed more than for what it’s worth of the two weapons, I’m happy with all the extra thrown to me from the chests. The boosters are nice for alts, and occasional dungeon/fractals runs. The hair change packs ensure myself always up to date with any new hair styles and color. The dyes give me some gold and the minis are to collect or forge. No biggie. I enjoy them all.

If you think that 119 golds are too much for 25 keys for the purpose of obtaining a weapon skin then you are right. Each skin costs only about 75 golds on the TP. The extra golds are payed for the other extra from the chest as well, and depending on your luck, you can profit more.

TL,DR; people like me do pay for the convenient service they enjoy. Just because you don’t afford the service, you condemn Anet as greedy; I personally find it ridiculous.

I would buy things for real money if there was any value. Many (most?) items in the Gem store are a complete rip-off. Keys are a good example.

It’s sort of funny to me.

If the stuff you get out of the black lion chest was required, people would be screaming pay to win. It’s useless fluff stuff for a reason.

And if it’s useless, people don’t need this keys, so there’s nothing to complain about.

I’m at work, so I’m not aware of the current sales. But if keys are indeed on sale, time to break out Mr. Creditcard! I’m willing to sacrifice a couple of days of venti lattes for Gems.

FYI – BL Keys make great gifts to people you RP with. My in-game GF will be most pleased.

Remember when keys used to drop in the BWEs and early life of the game? Those were the days. I have 3 full stack of BLC that i will never use. Good old bait and switch.

My bank : half of it came from boxes. Forget to use em, don’t wanna destroy em. Let alone pay for more lol. Except the karma boosters I use those and lose even more bank space for the flasks. Argh!

The problems of modern man…how do i cope?

This game doesn’t require you to buy things from Gem Store, nor does it affect much in your gameplay

There is a difference between NEED and WANT.

Frye.4608:

My bank : half of it came from boxes. Forget to use em, don’t wanna destroy em. Let alone pay for more lol. Except the karma boosters I use those and lose even more bank space for the flasks. Argh!

The problems of modern man…how do i cope?

Use you flasks. Karma boosters don’t work on them anymore.

I think the known record is 22 minute, probably even closer to 23.

So it probably take a bit longer than 20.

Why are keys so expensive? Because not everyone want to do boring key farms for hours and hours for a single black lion weapon. If they can use real cash, they would.

The real question is why are black lion weapon so cheap. Why would anyone spend 16 hours farming for a single weapon when they can get it for 50-60 gold on the trading post. My guess is some people just play regularly and saved a bunch of keys, or gold sellers which dont’ have lvl80 account just keep farming keys for money.

Hey thanks /fifteen

katniss.6735:

That’s ridiculous.
It takes me about 20 mins max (because of loading screens) to farm 1 key on a warrior and complete that level 10 personal story at level 6.
8.3 hours for 25 keys.
Making 119 gold takes forever unless you’re playing the market.
Items in black lion chests are mostly useless unless you’re still leveling crafting, still leveling alts, and actually like the skins you get with scraps. When you can use 119 gold to get a far better looking weapon.
With 8.3 hours of farming keys you could farm dungeons for all kinds of useful drops.
The chance of getting a permanent type item from the chest is less than a 0.00%.

Why are keys still so expensive a year into the game?

NO ONE, NOT ONE PERSON SHOULD EVER BUYS KEYS! (unless you want the Endless tonic)

Do the math, $20 bucks would give you 80 gold… what do you think you’ll get from 25 chest?

Most likely not a ticket, perhaps a few scraps but most likely not 10 scraps… and the contracts are like a 1 in 10,000 chance. There is NOTHING worthwhile or worth a gamble in these chest PERIOD. You are better off trading your cash or gems for GOLD and buying anything you want, with the exception of the Endless Tonic.

This applies to many things… Mini Packs… really… cmon guys, do the MATH. 800 gems = $10/40 gold, 800 gems almost gives you 3 packs with a 1 in 3 chance to get a yellow. 3 packs of mini would give you less than 15-20g worth of minis on AVERAGE.

People need to think about it before they waste money. I feel soooo bad for the countless fools that bought keys and got half of what they could have if they just exchanged it for gold……. 2,000+ rare minis on the trading post tells me they sold well over 100,000 keys to fools.

^ ya I felt the same way about dye pack. I was foolish enough to spend 500+ gold to buy a bunch of flame and frost dye pack, when I can buy it for a fraction of the price directly from the TP.

The sollution imo is to remove the rng part from the cashshop,its a big ripoff,Also i am pretty sure if a-net change the fact to get weapens true rng (ticket’s) they even whould have more cashshop sales because people whould rather buy a guaranteed item.

For example:
People, if, let’s say all of the weapens now ya can get with ticket’s ya can buy now for 800 gem’s par piece,are you gonna buy them or not for that price?

Imo if i could get guaranteed weapen’s for that price i whould probably invest more into the cashshop than now atm, i don’t do it much cause of the rng.

kind regard’s

sry for the bad english not my main lang.

lordkrall.7241:

Wethospu.6437:

So instead of offering stuff cheaper and making me spend much more they keep higher prices and barely get anything?

This happens in pretty much any game. I feel like spending 10-20 euros to support a game. I enter their cash shop and look what I get. Maybe 2 hats or RNG stuff. Yeah, not going to happen.

Do you really think they would have the higher price if they would earn more with a lower price?
I would assume that they have a rather good understanding about which would earn them the most (they do have an economist on their staff after all, and one can assume that he would have way better knowledge and/or understanding about stuff like these than random people on the forums).

Clearly they earn enough money to be satisfied with the current model, so why would they change?

People make bad decisions and you really can’t assume they know their stuff. Have you seen builds some developers use in PvE?

Personally I would spend much more with reasonable prices. So naturally it would make sense for me that they lowered their prices. Only way to change my mind is to show some hard evidence that their model actually gives the most profit.

The other thing is this game is about horizontal cosmetic progression, instead of a vertical gear stat progression.

So, how does that work when they introduce no new cosmetics outside of gem store?

Wethospu.6437:

People make bad decisions and you really can’t assume they know their stuff. Have you seen builds some developers use in PvE?

Personally I would spend much more with reasonable prices. So naturally it would make sense for me that they lowered their prices. Only way to change my mind is to show some hard evidence that their model actually gives the most profit.

Of course they do.
But I would say it is safe to assume that an expert in the field is less likely to make bad decisions than a random forum user without any numbers.
Just because someone is a dev doesn’t mean they are the best players in the world. They are primarily developing the game, not playing it.

Maybe you personally would, but would enough people do that so that they earned as much or more?
Quite clearly Anet doesnt think so, and I would say they are right.
Most people not buying stuff in the Gemstore now would most likely no do it if it goes cheaper either, just on principle.

Charak.9761:

Because they want you to use real money, but in the end the results are lackluster.

RNG boxes need to go, its getting insulting.

The reason that RNG boxes are still here is cause people ARE buying the keys. The law of supply and demand work here as well as with other things. People buy keys, so there is obviously a demand, so why stop selling??

What is insulting bout selling something people are buying. If nobody would buy them they would have been long gone from the shop. I don’t buy them, but I also dont envy the people who do nor the things that drop.

Wethospu.6437:

Personally I would spend much more with reasonable prices. So naturally it would make sense for me that they lowered their prices. Only way to change my mind is to show some hard evidence that their model actually gives the most profit.

But there is no hard evidence your right too. You should google “supply and demand equilibrium”.

I’m not sure why you naturaly think your price is the perfect price just because that’s the price you’ll pay.

lordkrall.7241:

Of course they do.
But I would say it is safe to assume that an expert in the field is less likely to make bad decisions than a random forum user without any numbers.
Just because someone is a dev doesn’t mean they are the best players in the world. They are primarily developing the game, not playing it.

Maybe you personally would, but would enough people do that so that they earned as much or more?
Quite clearly Anet doesnt think so, and I would say they are right.
Most people not buying stuff in the Gemstore now would most likely no do it if it goes cheaper either, just on principle.

Not exactly sure what you are trying to say. I have my opinion, you have yours. Neither of us have any facts for meaningful discussion.
Actually I was only asking if someone had any facts or evidence about pricing. Why are you so defensive about it?

laokoko.7403:

But there is no hard evidence your right too. You should google “supply and demand equilibrium”.

I’m not sure why you naturaly think your price is the perfect price just because that’s the price you’ll pay.

Opinions don’t need hard evidence and I have never said my pricing would be the best. How do you know that current pricing is the equilibrium? That’s right, you don’t. So googling that term makes no sense.

You are not sure why I think my price would be perfect for me? What else should I pick then?