Guild Wars 2

WingLegacy.7159:

Supremelo.8437:

According to the wiki, these were the features that Arenanet intended to add in the second half of 2013:

Professions and balance
-There will be new unlockable skills and traits.
Precursors, and legendaries
-New legendary weapons.
-New types of legendary equipment (possibly a trinket).
-New precursor acquisition methods (I am aware that Arenanet later announced that this would be postponed)
sPvP
-New map types.
-It will be possible to gain legendary weapon skins in sPvP.
-Additional rewards and growth will be added to the major competitive sPvP tournaments.

Do you guys think that Arenanet adequately implemented these features?

EDIT: Here is a link to the primary source of these announcements.

The things that you post here are the ones which is pending you didnt post the ones that the already done. Ex. Ascended weapons/armor, new dungeon aka TA new path, pvp changes and etc.. they’ve already stated that precusor crafting (which is a stupid idea)will not make it in 2013 so it was cleared.

This!

Vol.7601:

Do I have to keep posting the disclaimer or are you guys going to conveniently ignore it?

•“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.” *

That doesn’t really make it okay.

Why can’t THIS be the issue we have? It’s the face that they say all these things are coming, but then say they might, and they don’t. What’s the point of discussing them, when more often then not, it doesn’t happen.

Although my post was removed, I made some valid points about the overall feel the company gives off through posts, actions, and comments made which just makes the playerbase/customer feel let down. This whole “Here are a bunch of things we’re going to do in 2013” that don’t happen feels like just another item on the list. Not to mention the players repeatedly defending them with “Well, they didn’t give an actual deadline, and they said it was subject to change” is just sad.

Ethics.4519:

Vol.7601:

Do I have to keep posting the disclaimer or are you guys going to conveniently ignore it?

•“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.” *

That doesn’t really make it okay.

Why can’t THIS be the issue we have? It’s the face that they say all these things are coming, but then say they might, and they don’t. What’s the point of discussing them, when more often then not, it doesn’t happen.

Although my post was removed, I made some valid points about the overall feel the company gives off through posts, actions, and comments made which just makes the playerbase/customer feel let down. This whole “Here are a bunch of things we’re going to do in 2013” that don’t happen feels like just another item on the list. Not to mention the players repeatedly defending them with “Well, they didn’t give an actual deadline, and they said it was subject to change” is just sad.

> Something gets pushed it back to refine it and make sure it works properly, people complain about how promises weren’t kept.
> It gets rushed out of the door in order to meet the deadline so people don’t complain about how promises weren’t kept, people complain it’s been poorly implemented.

Not to mention that if they mention things might be pushed back, than people should accept that as a possibility, and not come with the torches and pitchforks about how they didn’t keep their ‘promises’ about implementing X, Y and Z.

You know, things can go wrong, or other ideas can pop up on how to improve something.

No, not even close to keeping their promises. But I don’t intend to hold the failures in year 2013 against them in the coming year. Keep your head up.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Ethics.4519:

Vol.7601:

Do I have to keep posting the disclaimer or are you guys going to conveniently ignore it?

•“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.” *

That doesn’t really make it okay.

Why can’t THIS be the issue we have? It’s the face that they say all these things are coming, but then say they might, and they don’t. What’s the point of discussing them, when more often then not, it doesn’t happen.

Although my post was removed, I made some valid points about the overall feel the company gives off through posts, actions, and comments made which just makes the playerbase/customer feel let down. This whole “Here are a bunch of things we’re going to do in 2013” that don’t happen feels like just another item on the list. Not to mention the players repeatedly defending them with “Well, they didn’t give an actual deadline, and they said it was subject to change” is just sad.

> Something gets pushed it back to refine it and make sure it works properly, people complain about how promises weren’t kept.
> It gets rushed out of the door in order to meet the deadline so people don’t complain about how promises weren’t kept, people complain it’s been poorly implemented.

Not to mention that if they mention things might be pushed back, than people should accept that as a possibility, and not come with the torches and pitchforks about how they didn’t keep their ‘promises’ about implementing X, Y and Z.

You know, things can go wrong, or other ideas can pop up on how to improve something.

>An idea is created, shared, and implemented well, on time.

Interesting this was missing form your list =)

Imagine that! A programming job that took longer than expected. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that happen before. I mean every building project comes in on time and under budget.

They made a list of stuff they intended to get out before the end of the year, some of the stuff got pushed back.

The funny bit is, if they rushed the stuff out,. then people would scream it was rushed. If they take their time and move it back people say they’ve been lied too.

It is entirely possible to miss a deadline without lying. I once told a publisher I could have a draft of a story back to them in a week…it took three. Did I lie? Did I break a promise? No.

I underestimated the time it would take, partly due to the project itself and partly due to other influences that delayed my ability to work on it.

The stuff that’s been moved back has missed a deadline, nothing more. It’s business as usual, as most programmers would tell you.

Ethics.4519:

>An idea is created, shared, and implemented well, on time.

Interesting this was missing form your list =)

As I mentioned in my last post, things go wrong, or maybe someone thought of a better way of doing it. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t seem to realise this.

Not to mention they actually told us before the year was up that the precursor crafting would be pushed back.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Ethics.4519:

>An idea is created, shared, and implemented well, on time.

Interesting this was missing form your list =)

As I mentioned in my last post, things go wrong, or maybe someone thought of a better way of doing it. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t seem to realise this.

Not to mention they actually told us before the year was up that the precursor crafting would be pushed back.

And they did notify us in time, like 4-6 weeks before the end of the year, not 2 days.

On that, I really appreciate how they improved regarding communication. Now if they could improve on giving feedback about the fractured update, I’d be very grateful as well!

Ethics.4519:

Vol.7601:

Do I have to keep posting the disclaimer or are you guys going to conveniently ignore it?

•“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.” *

That doesn’t really make it okay.

Why can’t THIS be the issue we have? It’s the face that they say all these things are coming, but then say they might, and they don’t. What’s the point of discussing them, when more often then not, it doesn’t happen.

Although my post was removed, I made some valid points about the overall feel the company gives off through posts, actions, and comments made which just makes the playerbase/customer feel let down. This whole “Here are a bunch of things we’re going to do in 2013” that don’t happen feels like just another item on the list. Not to mention the players repeatedly defending them with “Well, they didn’t give an actual deadline, and they said it was subject to change” is just sad.

No, it makes it okay.

The problem is, again, people didn’t bother to read it. People got their hopes high – people were sure it will be implemented regardless of what happens – because they did not finish reading it.
Did ANet miss the disclaimer? No. Did the people miss the disclaimer? Probably. Someone did not get the memo, and it’s not ANet…

What Anet posted: “Here’s our plan for 2013. This are the things, might happen, may not – depending on various factors”.

What people read: “Here’s our plan for 2013. This are the things….”

What people understood: “Here’s what’s going to happen on 2013”

How the people reacted: “Yay! New stuff coming this 2013!!!!”

See what’s wrong?

I am not saying ANet is not wrong, but come on people… We have the intellect to buy and register and actually play the game, don’t tell me we lack the intellect to actually read and understand to the end…

Maybe next time ANet should plaster the word “tentative” around…

Fror.2163:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Ethics.4519:

>An idea is created, shared, and implemented well, on time.

Interesting this was missing form your list =)

As I mentioned in my last post, things go wrong, or maybe someone thought of a better way of doing it. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t seem to realise this.

Not to mention they actually told us before the year was up that the precursor crafting would be pushed back.

And they did notify us in time, like 4-6 weeks before the end of the year, not 2 days.

On that, I really appreciate how they improved regarding communication. Now if they could improve on giving feedback about the fractured update, I’d be very grateful as well!

Unfortunately, ANet ‘promised’ that it would be in before the end of 2013. I mean, it wasn’t like the blog was a statement of intention, and it’s not like they said that things might be pushed back.

I think they could do a feedback thread after every update. Would be more useful that 10 different threads about the exact same thing.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Fror.2163:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Ethics.4519:

>An idea is created, shared, and implemented well, on time.

Interesting this was missing form your list =)

As I mentioned in my last post, things go wrong, or maybe someone thought of a better way of doing it. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t seem to realise this.

Not to mention they actually told us before the year was up that the precursor crafting would be pushed back.

And they did notify us in time, like 4-6 weeks before the end of the year, not 2 days.

On that, I really appreciate how they improved regarding communication. Now if they could improve on giving feedback about the fractured update, I’d be very grateful as well!

Unfortunately, ANet ‘promised’ that it would be in before the end of 2013. I mean, it wasn’t like the blog was a statement of intention, and it’s not like they said that things might be pushed back.

I think they could do a feedback thread after every update. Would be more useful that 10 different threads about the exact same thing.

No, they promised if all goes well. But you didn’t read/understood that. Not their fault you read only what you want!

Ethics.4519:

Vol.7601:

Do I have to keep posting the disclaimer or are you guys going to conveniently ignore it?

•“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.” *

That doesn’t really make it okay.

Why can’t THIS be the issue we have? It’s the face that they say all these things are coming, but then say they might, and they don’t. What’s the point of discussing them, when more often then not, it doesn’t happen.

Although my post was removed, I made some valid points about the overall feel the company gives off through posts, actions, and comments made which just makes the playerbase/customer feel let down. This whole “Here are a bunch of things we’re going to do in 2013” that don’t happen feels like just another item on the list. Not to mention the players repeatedly defending them with “Well, they didn’t give an actual deadline, and they said it was subject to change” is just sad.

I actually think it makes it perfectly OK. As a take on what TheDaiBish.9735 said, if they don’t share what they have planned people complain that they are not letting their customers know what is coming. If they do share what they have planned and it doesn’t happen as individuals interpret it, then they are lying and not keeping promises.

You propose that they just say nothing instead of “not keeping promises”. Yet others would complain because they say nothing? I think it may not be sinking in that they are in a huge Catch 22 situation. D’mnd if they do, D’mnd if they don’t.

So they try to be forthcoming and yet also quantify it with the statement, “As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”

You seriously cannot please everyone. What bothers me is that there seems to be too much of taking statements too literally and in an overly rigid manner. I don’t understand the unnecessary vitriol.

So again, yes, I think it is perfectly fine that they make such a statement. They are trying (successfully IMO) to mitigate people claiming they did not “keep their word” when they actually did. They said it might not happen. They kept their word.

I see it as people wanting to hold them to one thing they say (as in what they said they wanted to do in 2013) and yet disregarding other things they also say (it may not happen). That is unfair to the people making the statements and hypocritical of those calling them out IMO.

ok, negativity or positivity aside. No the did not hit all of their public targets for 2013. These were not promises, but they were plans. It means they are still behind on these ideas. These things happen in development, however what each user decides is whether the overall product is valuable to them including not only the plans they didnt execute but the plans they did.

Personally i ll say GW2 is still a pretty good game, and a pretty good game service. However, i think it needs more new content. New stories, new adventures, new skills, mechanics, bosses, professions. While the living story hasnt really hit its stride yet. Up to now, i see very little that comes close to what one might get in an expansion. Even though we have had some fairly beefy upgrades, guild stuff, fractals, wvw progression, None of these have come anywhere close to the revitilization one feels when stepping into cantha, elona, or the eye of the north expansions.

Feels like anet is creating a bunch of features, but not the world/story/implementations that go with it and truely make it interesting. They need to integrate it better so that these things occur while exploring/fighting/uncovering story, progressing your character.

Oh yeah. It makes it okay? Well, next time I have a project at work that isn’t done. I’ll just go in a week before hand and say “Hey, sometimes stuff gets pushed back”. I’m sure my manager would be perfectly happy about that.

Just as an FYI, it’s okay to like the game and still see fault in actions of the company.

Ethics.4519:

Oh yeah. It makes it okay? Well, next time I have a project at work that isn’t done. I’ll just go in a week before hand and say “Hey, sometimes stuff gets pushed back”. I’m sure my manager would be perfectly happy about that.

Just as an FYI, it’s okay to like the game and still see fault in actions of the company.

Unless it was a hard-deadline, it’s okay. Unless there is a promise that you will actually do it in a set timeframe, it’s okay.

Jesus. People really need to understand things.

Fror.2163:

No, they promised if all goes well. But you didn’t read/understood that. Not their fault you read only what you want!

I should have included a sarcasm tag. My apologies.

I personally understand that. Some in this thread doesn’t.

Ethics.4519:

Oh yeah. It makes it okay? Well, next time I have a project at work that isn’t done. I’ll just go in a week before hand and say “Hey, sometimes stuff gets pushed back”. I’m sure my manager would be perfectly happy about that.

Just as an FYI, it’s okay to like the game and still see fault in actions of the company.

I’d say it’s more like a client requests something, you give an estimate on how long it takes, and you let them know if certain things are going to take longer.

And yes, it’s ok to critisise and like. However, I feel most people in this thread are blowing things way, way out of proportion, to the point they ignore the fact that we were told certain bits wouldn’t make it in before the end of 2013.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Fror.2163:

No, they promised if all goes well. But you didn’t read/understood that. Not their fault you read only what you want!

I should have included a sarcasm tag. My apologies.

I personally understand that. Some in this thread doesn’t.

Ethics.4519:

Oh yeah. It makes it okay? Well, next time I have a project at work that isn’t done. I’ll just go in a week before hand and say “Hey, sometimes stuff gets pushed back”. I’m sure my manager would be perfectly happy about that.

Just as an FYI, it’s okay to like the game and still see fault in actions of the company.

I’d say it’s more like a client requests something, you give an estimate on how long it takes, and you let them know if certain things are going to take longer.

And yes, it’s ok to critisise and like. However, I feel most people in this thread are blowing things way, way out of proportion, to the point they ignore the fact that we were told certain bits wouldn’t make it in before the end of 2013.

Yes, I agree people in this thread are blowing things way, way out of proportion. I think the amount of blowing is equal on both sides.

Ethics.4519:

Oh yeah. It makes it okay? Well, next time I have a project at work that isn’t done. I’ll just go in a week before hand and say “Hey, sometimes stuff gets pushed back”. I’m sure my manager would be perfectly happy about that.

Just as an FYI, it’s okay to like the game and still see fault in actions of the company.

Absolutely it is OK to like the game and find fault in the actions of the company. I just believe that people are finding fault where there is none. You still seem to be ignoring the fact that they clearly stated that not everything may make it to game when they thought it would.

As a person who has 40+ employees who report to me, if one of them came to me and told me (which often happens) that something is not going to be done when we thought it would, I find out why. If there is a legitimate reason, we work it out. I am not mad at the employee. Sometimes things happen. I get that as a manager. I don’t automatically start blaming the employee and burn into him/her for the delay. There is no reason for that other than neglect. Also, if an employee gives me an estimate of when a project may be done, I do not construe that estimate as a set date or a promise. It is simply a goal. If it is done by then or sooner, awesome. If not, I was warned and we work to get it done as soon as possible. See any similarities?

Since we will never know why things Anet wanted to do in 2013 did not happen. There is no reason to believe that they are not working on those things. Because they did not happen when some people thought they should is perfectly OK. There is no fault here because no promises were made.

Ethics.4519:

Yes, I agree people in this thread are blowing things way, way out of proportion. I think the amount of blowing is equal on both sides.

Pray tell how the people trying to explain how everything wasn’t guaranteed are blowing anything out of proportion?

Ethics.4519:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Fror.2163:

No, they promised if all goes well. But you didn’t read/understood that. Not their fault you read only what you want!

I should have included a sarcasm tag. My apologies.

I personally understand that. Some in this thread doesn’t.

Ethics.4519:

Oh yeah. It makes it okay? Well, next time I have a project at work that isn’t done. I’ll just go in a week before hand and say “Hey, sometimes stuff gets pushed back”. I’m sure my manager would be perfectly happy about that.

Just as an FYI, it’s okay to like the game and still see fault in actions of the company.

I’d say it’s more like a client requests something, you give an estimate on how long it takes, and you let them know if certain things are going to take longer.

And yes, it’s ok to critisise and like. However, I feel most people in this thread are blowing things way, way out of proportion, to the point they ignore the fact that we were told certain bits wouldn’t make it in before the end of 2013.

Yes, I agree people in this thread are blowing things way, way out of proportion. I think the amount of blowing is equal on both sides.

I respectfully disagree.

This time, only the complaining side is blowing it out of proportion for taking a context out of the entire post and completely disregarding that one sentence that answers the allegations on this thread.

So, if I understand well people saying that it’s fine have met long term projects and people saying that it’s not fine have not met such projects ?

Vayne.8563:

Imagine that! A programming job that took longer than expected. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that happen before. I mean every building project comes in on time and under budget.

They made a list of stuff they intended to get out before the end of the year, some of the stuff got pushed back.

The funny bit is, if they rushed the stuff out,. then people would scream it was rushed. If they take their time and move it back people say they’ve been lied too.

It is entirely possible to miss a deadline without lying. I once told a publisher I could have a draft of a story back to them in a week…it took three. Did I lie? Did I break a promise? No.

I underestimated the time it would take, partly due to the project itself and partly due to other influences that delayed my ability to work on it.

The stuff that’s been moved back has missed a deadline, nothing more. It’s business as usual, as most programmers would tell you.

Yeah, you’d be right if the blogpost wasn’t their usual “we can’t hear you over the sound of our awesomeness”, full of “awesome” here, “epic” there and crap like that…
And of course if they didn’t broke promises, taken 180° turns on their original plans and so on…

Valanga.5942:

Yeah, you’d be right if the blogpost wasn’t their usual “we can’t hear you over the sound of our awesomeness”, full of “awesome” here, “epic” there and crap like that…
And of course if they didn’t broke promises, taken 180° turns on their original plans and so on…

Thank you. My biggest issue is that this is just another tick against them in there string of 180 degree turns, stealth nerfs, bad PR, etc.

I don’t really care that much that some of these weren’t in 2013 (well, the precursor one I did really want to happen) it’s just that it’s the same old story.

Anet promotes something flashy and cool. The majority buy into it. Anet fails and it’s not as good or doesn’t happen. Some people are upset, and other people argue that humans make mistakes.

Ethics.4519:

Valanga.5942:

Yeah, you’d be right if the blogpost wasn’t their usual “we can’t hear you over the sound of our awesomeness”, full of “awesome” here, “epic” there and crap like that…
And of course if they didn’t broke promises, taken 180° turns on their original plans and so on…

Thank you. My biggest issue is that this is just another tick against them in there string of 180 degree turns, stealth nerfs, bad PR, etc.

I don’t really care that much that some of these weren’t in 2013 (well, the precursor one I did really want to happen) it’s just that it’s the same old story.

Anet promotes something flashy and cool. The majority buy into it. Anet fails and it’s not as good or doesn’t happen. Some people are upset, and other people argue that humans make mistakes.

Point is, a certain amount of players (not gonna say “all” “most” “a lot”, because, you know, inb4 “you’re not speaking for the community! we love it!”), wants actual content, bugs solved, classes balanced, and ways to acquire Legendary Weapons that are not tied either to lucking the hell out of a chest or the Mystic Toilet, or grinding your guts out of your mouth to get enough money and pay some dude who did it before you.
What we get was Ascendant grinding… Well done Anet.

Valanga.5942:

Ethics.4519:

Valanga.5942:

Yeah, you’d be right if the blogpost wasn’t their usual “we can’t hear you over the sound of our awesomeness”, full of “awesome” here, “epic” there and crap like that…
And of course if they didn’t broke promises, taken 180° turns on their original plans and so on…

Thank you. My biggest issue is that this is just another tick against them in there string of 180 degree turns, stealth nerfs, bad PR, etc.

I don’t really care that much that some of these weren’t in 2013 (well, the precursor one I did really want to happen) it’s just that it’s the same old story.

Anet promotes something flashy and cool. The majority buy into it. Anet fails and it’s not as good or doesn’t happen. Some people are upset, and other people argue that humans make mistakes.

Point is, a certain amount of players (not gonna say “all” “most” “a lot”, because, you know, inb4 “you’re not speaking for the community! we love it!”), wants actual content, bugs solved, classes balanced, and ways to acquire Legendary Weapons that are not tied either to lucking the hell out of a chest or the Mystic Toilet, or grinding your guts out of your mouth to get enough money and pay some dude who did it before you.
What we get was Ascendant grinding… Well done Anet.

+1. Please listen this year Anet!

Simply put, no.

I promise that every single person who posts in this thread will have a Legendary weapon drop by the end of next week.

(This offer is subject to change without notice; and RNG, of course.)

Ethics.4519:

Oh yeah. It makes it okay? Well, next time I have a project at work that isn’t done. I’ll just go in a week before hand and say “Hey, sometimes stuff gets pushed back”. I’m sure my manager would be perfectly happy about that.

Just as an FYI, it’s okay to like the game and still see fault in actions of the company.

I get projects that get pushed back all the time. Right now all my projects are being pushed back. My engineers are all busy on earlier projects, so my projects are getting pushed back. It’s quite common in this field.

DarcShriek.5829:

Ethics.4519:

Oh yeah. It makes it okay? Well, next time I have a project at work that isn’t done. I’ll just go in a week before hand and say “Hey, sometimes stuff gets pushed back”. I’m sure my manager would be perfectly happy about that.

Just as an FYI, it’s okay to like the game and still see fault in actions of the company.

I get projects that get pushed back all the time. Right now all my projects are being pushed back. My engineers are all busy on earlier projects, so my projects are getting pushed back. It’s quite common in this field.

I’m an engineer as well. I have had projects also pushed back. However my manager didn’t say “oh yeah, things are subject to change, no problem”. He wants to know what the issue is and what I’m planning on doing about it. An excuse like “well, some stuff came up” doesn’t really cut it.

Also, even though I know I brought the example (as others have), there are still differences in the relationship between customers/company and employee/boss.

Why does there even need to be any discussion of Anet’s integrity or commitment to their said design philosophies after the whole manifesto fiasco? They can declare, promise, commit, plan, intend, proclaim anything and at best you have absolutely no idea if they actually mean any of it or not. I don’t feel that way when WoW or LoL devs discuss things, they actually have some proven reliability or merit behind what they say. With GW2 it all just feels like PR doublespeak or hype with little follow through. I’ve never seen a company kitten all over a good reputation as quickly as Anet has done this last year with how they’ve handled GW2.

Sweetbread.2679:

Why does there even need to be any discussion of Anet’s integrity or commitment to their said design philosophies after the whole manifesto fiasco? They can declare, promise, commit, plan, intend, proclaim anything and at best you have absolutely no idea if they actually mean any of it or not. I don’t feel that way when WoW or LoL devs discuss things, they actually have some proven reliability or merit behind what they say. With GW2 it all just feels like PR doublespeak or hype with little follow through. I’ve never seen a company kitten all over a good reputation as quickly as Anet has done this last year with how they’ve handled GW2.

Nailed it.
This right here is the problem.
The problem isn’t that they didn’t deliver so much as that their PR skills ruin every little bit of good they do.
You’re allowed to make mistakes, we all do, but have the balls to admit when you’ve made them and give yourselves a better rep by fixing your mistakes and not making the same ones in the future.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Ethics.4519:

Yes, I agree people in this thread are blowing things way, way out of proportion. I think the amount of blowing is equal on both sides.

Pray tell how the people trying to explain how everything wasn’t guaranteed are blowing anything out of proportion?

because while it certainly isnt the end of the world, it is in fact failing to meet projections/expectations, and does need to be dealt with/planned for. It isnt simply a non issue. The fact that it isnt done, effects resources, new developments, time tables, etc.
Of course they didnt promise it, and development is liquid, but that doesnt just mean no one should comment/question/wonder about the things that fall behind.

Ethics.4519:

DarcShriek.5829:

Ethics.4519:

Oh yeah. It makes it okay? Well, next time I have a project at work that isn’t done. I’ll just go in a week before hand and say “Hey, sometimes stuff gets pushed back”. I’m sure my manager would be perfectly happy about that.

Just as an FYI, it’s okay to like the game and still see fault in actions of the company.

I get projects that get pushed back all the time. Right now all my projects are being pushed back. My engineers are all busy on earlier projects, so my projects are getting pushed back. It’s quite common in this field.

I’m an engineer as well. I have had projects also pushed back. However my manager didn’t say “oh yeah, things are subject to change, no problem”. He wants to know what the issue is and what I’m planning on doing about it. An excuse like “well, some stuff came up” doesn’t really cut it.

Also, even though I know I brought the example (as others have), there are still differences in the relationship between customers/company and employee/boss.

Last time I checked neither you nor I were managers at Anet. They don’t owe us detailed explanations. It makes me sad that someone that claims to understand that projects do get pushed back takes such a hard line position on this issue. They don’t owe you anything, stop acting like they do.

For me its pretty simple:

I like being told their plans so I have stuff to hype about. If they can’t make it in time, that’s fine as long as they let us know. They should also refrain from talking on the line of technicalities so we don’t suffer the same misunderstandings as with the fractal weapons or the new skills and traits.

DarcShriek.5829:

Ethics.4519:

DarcShriek.5829:

Ethics.4519:

Oh yeah. It makes it okay? Well, next time I have a project at work that isn’t done. I’ll just go in a week before hand and say “Hey, sometimes stuff gets pushed back”. I’m sure my manager would be perfectly happy about that.

Just as an FYI, it’s okay to like the game and still see fault in actions of the company.

I get projects that get pushed back all the time. Right now all my projects are being pushed back. My engineers are all busy on earlier projects, so my projects are getting pushed back. It’s quite common in this field.

I’m an engineer as well. I have had projects also pushed back. However my manager didn’t say “oh yeah, things are subject to change, no problem”. He wants to know what the issue is and what I’m planning on doing about it. An excuse like “well, some stuff came up” doesn’t really cut it.

Also, even though I know I brought the example (as others have), there are still differences in the relationship between customers/company and employee/boss.

Last time I checked neither you nor I were managers at Anet. They don’t owe us detailed explanations. It makes me sad that someone that claims to understand that projects do get pushed back takes such a hard line position on this issue. They don’t owe you anything, stop acting like they do.

Engineers need to learn to not get pushed back then, i tough they have learned that on univ, it is a mater of know what to do in first place also known as organization and method.

PS. another Engineer with a large to do list.

DarcShriek.5829:

Ethics.4519:

DarcShriek.5829:

Ethics.4519:

Oh yeah. It makes it okay? Well, next time I have a project at work that isn’t done. I’ll just go in a week before hand and say “Hey, sometimes stuff gets pushed back”. I’m sure my manager would be perfectly happy about that.

Just as an FYI, it’s okay to like the game and still see fault in actions of the company.

I get projects that get pushed back all the time. Right now all my projects are being pushed back. My engineers are all busy on earlier projects, so my projects are getting pushed back. It’s quite common in this field.

I’m an engineer as well. I have had projects also pushed back. However my manager didn’t say “oh yeah, things are subject to change, no problem”. He wants to know what the issue is and what I’m planning on doing about it. An excuse like “well, some stuff came up” doesn’t really cut it.

Also, even though I know I brought the example (as others have), there are still differences in the relationship between customers/company and employee/boss.

Last time I checked neither you nor I were managers at Anet. They don’t owe us detailed explanations. It makes me sad that someone that claims to understand that projects do get pushed back takes such a hard line position on this issue. They don’t owe you anything, stop acting like they do.

They don’t owe me anything? I’m a customer. You’re a fool if you think a company doesn’t owe a customer anything.

With your logic, Arenanet could completely stop all production and work on updates and that would be fine, because they don’t owe you anything.

They could completely shut down servers so you can’t play anymore, and that’s fine because they don’t owe you anything.

Oh and last time I checked, I never claimed that you or I were managers there.

DarcShriek.5829:

Ethics.4519:

DarcShriek.5829:

Ethics.4519:

Oh yeah. It makes it okay? Well, next time I have a project at work that isn’t done. I’ll just go in a week before hand and say “Hey, sometimes stuff gets pushed back”. I’m sure my manager would be perfectly happy about that.

Just as an FYI, it’s okay to like the game and still see fault in actions of the company.

I get projects that get pushed back all the time. Right now all my projects are being pushed back. My engineers are all busy on earlier projects, so my projects are getting pushed back. It’s quite common in this field.

I’m an engineer as well. I have had projects also pushed back. However my manager didn’t say “oh yeah, things are subject to change, no problem”. He wants to know what the issue is and what I’m planning on doing about it. An excuse like “well, some stuff came up” doesn’t really cut it.

Also, even though I know I brought the example (as others have), there are still differences in the relationship between customers/company and employee/boss.

Last time I checked neither you nor I were managers at Anet. They don’t owe us detailed explanations. It makes me sad that someone that claims to understand that projects do get pushed back takes such a hard line position on this issue. They don’t owe you anything, stop acting like they do.

As a paying customer, you should be first in line to question chronic setbacks. You have more money to give and they should be held accountable for their marketing team running way ahead of their development team.

Sweetbread.2679:

Why does there even need to be any discussion of Anet’s integrity or commitment to their said design philosophies after the whole manifesto fiasco? They can declare, promise, commit, plan, intend, proclaim anything and at best you have absolutely no idea if they actually mean any of it or not. I don’t feel that way when WoW or LoL devs discuss things, they actually have some proven reliability or merit behind what they say. With GW2 it all just feels like PR doublespeak or hype with little follow through. I’ve never seen a company kitten all over a good reputation as quickly as Anet has done this last year with how they’ve handled GW2.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Sweetbread.2679:

Why does there even need to be any discussion of Anet’s integrity or commitment to their said design philosophies after the whole manifesto fiasco? They can declare, promise, commit, plan, intend, proclaim anything and at best you have absolutely no idea if they actually mean any of it or not. I don’t feel that way when WoW or LoL devs discuss things, they actually have some proven reliability or merit behind what they say. With GW2 it all just feels like PR doublespeak or hype with little follow through. I’ve never seen a company kitten all over a good reputation as quickly as Anet has done this last year with how they’ve handled GW2.

+1, good post.

Ethics.4519:

They don’t owe me anything? I’m a customer. You’re a fool if you think a company doesn’t owe a customer anything.

Of course they, as the producer of consumer goods, owe you, the consumer, something. They owe you what you paid for.

How much did you pay for the elements being discussed here ?

Ashen.2907:

Of course they, as the producer of consumer goods, owe you, the consumer, something. They owe you what you paid for.

How much did you pay for the elements being discussed here ?

Oh, but didn’t you know that every single thing ever released in the game will have been paid for with those $60 people spent over a year ago!

lordkrall.7241:

Ashen.2907:

Of course they, as the producer of consumer goods, owe you, the consumer, something. They owe you what you paid for.

How much did you pay for the elements being discussed here ?

Oh, but didn’t you know that every single thing ever released in the game will have been paid for with those $60 people spent over a year ago!

It was. That is the premise behind a buy to play monetization scheme.

killcannon.2576:

lordkrall.7241:

Ashen.2907:

Of course they, as the producer of consumer goods, owe you, the consumer, something. They owe you what you paid for.

How much did you pay for the elements being discussed here ?

Oh, but didn’t you know that every single thing ever released in the game will have been paid for with those $60 people spent over a year ago!

It was. That is the premise behind a buy to play monetization scheme.

Anet, from as early on in the discussions of a GW2 as I can recall, always spoke of at least the possibility of charging for content after the initial B2P. It was specifically mentioned as a counter to the idea of a sub fee. In addition to such early commentary the game has always, continuing to this day, included actual examples of requiring additional monetary expenditure for elements not included in the initial box purchase price.

So no, I am sorry but you are mistaken, “everything ever released in the game,” is not included in that $60 spent over a year ago.

Ashen.2907:

killcannon.2576:

lordkrall.7241:

Ashen.2907:

Of course they, as the producer of consumer goods, owe you, the consumer, something. They owe you what you paid for.

How much did you pay for the elements being discussed here ?

Oh, but didn’t you know that every single thing ever released in the game will have been paid for with those $60 people spent over a year ago!

It was. That is the premise behind a buy to play monetization scheme.

Anet, from as early on in the discussions of a GW2 as I can recall, always spoke of at least the possibility of charging for content after the initial B2P. It was specifically mentioned as a counter to the idea of a sub fee. In addition to such early commentary the game has always, continuing to this day, included actual examples of requiring additional monetary expenditure for elements not included in the initial box purchase price.

So no, I am sorry but you are mistaken, “everything ever released in the game,” is not included in that $60 spent over a year ago.

You are incorrect. Many have not spent any money other than purchase price…….and guess what? They get everything for the purchase price. Hence Buy to Play.

If they change the monetization and put basic gameplay mechanics, new areas besides convenience zones, or new skills behind a pay wall, then they jump into the f2p market zone…with an additional up front cost.

If Anet wants to monetize through the gem shop, then it is their job to make enticing content available to the players to buy. It is not the players responsibility to fund the game. It is Anets job to make me want to buy things.

All part of the buy to play scheme.

edit: In other words, Anet can put convenience and cosmetic items behind a paywall from now till doomsday and it’s fine. They can sell gold, name changes, server transfers, auto max levels, what have you.

But if they start selling extra Fractals, parts of the LS, new weapon sets, new viable skill sets, any actual real content besides an expansion, then it will no longer be a buy to play game.

killcannon.2576:

You are incorrect. Many have not spent any money other than purchase price…….and guess what? They get everything for the purchase price. Hence Buy to Play.

Hmm, I must be misunderstanding your point. When I look at the gem store I see plenty of things that are not included in the purchase price of the game box. I have purchased things that one of my friends has not. We have both paid the box price and yet I have access to those things in game while my friend does not.

Ashen.2907:

killcannon.2576:

You are incorrect. Many have not spent any money other than purchase price…….and guess what? They get everything for the purchase price. Hence Buy to Play.

Hmm, I must be misunderstanding your point. When I look at the gem store I see plenty of things that are not included in the purchase price of the game box. I have purchased things that one of my friends has not. We have both paid the box price and yet I have access to those things in game while my friend does not.

I meant like actual gameplay stuff. Like Fractal levels, parts of the LS, weapon sets, etc etc.

Apologies, I was not very clear with my post.

Yes you can play for free after you bought the box.

But people are buying gems to keep the game running. If no one bought gems the game would shut down quite fast and thus it is those of us that buy gems that are paying for the content. Not those people that paid $60 over a year ago.

lordkrall.7241:

Yes you can play for free after you bought the box.

But people are buying gems to keep the game running. If no one bought gems the game would shut down quite fast and thus it is those of us that buy gems that are paying for the content. Not those people that paid $60 over a year ago.

If you enjoy the game, there is no reason why you shouldn’t buy gems to give the developers some more operating capital. I’m sure they appreciate it, and I’m sure some of it goes to developing the game. But people should never feel obligated or forced to buy gems.

People should buy gems because they like/enjoy/want what they are getting with those gems. Be it QoL improvements like unlimited harvesting tools, cosmetic improvements like Town clothes, convenience items like boosts or gold or the Royal Terrace, fun items like the brooms or the musical instruments or the minis.

Ideally gems should be used as a type of feedback that the developers can use to decide what type of content to make available in the gem store.

At the end of the day, a person who buys 20000 gems is no more important than a person who buys none. In an MMO the most important players are the ones who actually play. Everyday.

And you are not playing for “free”. You bought the game, and that’s is all that is required for anyone.

killcannon.2576:

At the end of the day, a person who buys 20000 gems is no more important than a person who buys none. In an MMO the most important players are the ones who actually play. Everyday.

Agreed with all except, possibly, this part. An MMO is a for profit business and a customer that is supporting the business financially on an ongoing basis is of more import to that purpose.

Assume MMO A has 100k players each spending $50 dollars per year on the game. MMO B has the same number of players, half paying $50 per year on the game with the other half paying $0 per year on the game. All other things being equal which game will have more resources to spend on continuing development, growing the game, expanding content, etc ?

Ashen.2907:

killcannon.2576:

At the end of the day, a person who buys 20000 gems is no more important than a person who buys none. In an MMO the most important players are the ones who actually play. Everyday.

Agreed with all except, possibly, this part. An MMO is a for profit business and a customer that is supporting the business financially on an ongoing basis is of more import to that purpose.

Assume MMO A has 100k players each spending $50 dollars per year on the game. MMO B has the same number of players, half paying $50 per year on the game with the other half paying $0 per year on the game. All other things being equal which game will have more resources to spend on continuing development, growing the game, expanding content, etc ?

MMO A, of course. But it’s not so simple.

Same type of question back to you. Same companies.

MMO A has 100k players total, 50k log in only on weekends for about 4 to 8 hours total. 25k log in maybe 3 or 4 times a week, about 12 to 20 hours total. 25k log in everyday for about 2 to 4 hours.

MMO B has 50k players who log in everyday for about 2 to 4 hours. 25k who log in everyday for 4 or more hours. 20k players who log in 3 to 4 times a week for about 20 hours. And 5k or so of weekenders.

Now we know MMO A is making more money currently, but what happens when those people who are paying the money aren’t actually logging in?

Population is the single largest determining factor for the success or failure of any MMO. A living, breathing, populated MMO will succeed even if only a small percentage is actually paying for extra bits (only applicable in the buy to play and f2p monetization schemes), and a buy to play that is doing well doesn’t even need those people, they will generate more than enough revenue through box sales.

People don’t want to play a deserted MMO. The more people who play, the more money that IP will make, regardless of who does or does not buy gems. The single best thing an MMO player can do to help their favorite game to succeed is to play.

I could go on and tell people why “I Quit” threads are important, why the complaint threads are more valuable than the appreciation threads, or why there is no such thing as horizontal “progression”. But this is already way off topic, so…. done with this tangent.