Guild Wars 2

Sirendor.1394:

GW2 economy sucks big-time. people who don’t even play the game are making it harder for everyone to get items they like.

Also, in GW1 you could buy everything from shops and the prices of everything were regulated by Anet themselves, not by some random kitten who likes to create inflation.

The only people “Creating Inflation” are those bringing in money from nowhere… then again, this is offset by people also bringing in goods from nowhere… maybe.

Inflation is the result of more money to barter with being thrown after a largely static set of goods – in this case, I think people are griping about exotics/precursors/legendaries/rare materials, which are entering the game at a far lower rate than gold is.

Behellagh.1468:

Inflation is ONLY when currency loses it’s value. Everything becomes more expensive, not just luxury items and especially basic items.

No. Market speculation can happen on all type of goods. Monetary devaluation can cause inflation but not necessarily.

Saylu.8271:

No. Market speculation can happen on all type of goods. Monetary devaluation can cause inflation but not necessarily.

Describe an example of what describe as market speculation. To me market speculation is buying up a supply of an item I expect to shoot up in price due to some future event. Like players buying unidentified dyes because of rumors of dye changes in the Chinese version of the game and cashing in when word came about dye changes in our version.

What’s been going on with some precursors isn’t speculation. It’s buying all supply and setting a new higher price. That’s straight forward manipulation. Unless they have an unlimited amount of gold they can’t control supply for long and prices will drop until rate of supply is balanced with those who can afford that price.

1. I agree that events need better rewards. There are some events I just don’t even bother to do since it isn’t worth the effort.

2. I have no problem with people who play the TP, that is up to them. What I do have a problem with is precursor prices, and that falls directly on Anet. Either increase the drop rates or make them craftable.

3. I don’t have an issue with runners either. If they can solo a run and sell it then good for them. Droks runs were in GW1 as well as other dungeons and missions in that game and Anet didn’t have an issue.

The idea that playing the TP is more fun then playing the game is purely a matter of opinion.

I didn’t say it was more fun I said it was more rewarding. The patches that are released are not rewarding. There is always more money and therefore more reward to playing the TP and speculating about the patch then actually doing to meta and playing the game. The richest players in this game did not become so by playing the content in the LS or seasonal patches.

The only major issue I see in this area is the amount of black lion weapons locked behind RNG tickets. That should be done away with, and the skins becoming pure gem shop purchases, or even allowing them to be purchased as sets ala the gem store armors.

The argument here is that they are gem store purchasable. Buy gems, convert to gold, buy from the TP. Everything revolves around it. Maybe less items should be able to be sold on the TP.

It’s not more rewarding to play the TP than the game when you consider everyone doing it at the same time.

It is still more rewarding, most players are simply bad at that part of the game. In WOW for example, raiding is the most rewarding part. (ie: best gear) But not everyone has the best gear because they are simply not good enough to obtain it.

Behellagh.1468:

Saylu.8271:

No. Market speculation can happen on all type of goods. Monetary devaluation can cause inflation but not necessarily.

Describe an example of what describe as market speculation. To me market speculation is buying up a supply of an item I expect to shoot up in price due to some future event. Like players buying unidentified dyes because of rumors of dye changes in the Chinese version of the game and cashing in when word came about dye changes in our version.

What’s been going on with some precursors isn’t speculation. It’s buying all supply and setting a new higher price. That’s straight forward manipulation. Unless they have an unlimited amount of gold they can’t control supply for long and prices will drop until rate of supply is balanced with those who can afford that price.

Whether there are people trying to monopolize the market, I do not know. I just want to point out that a small group of people can monopolize the market with limited supply of gold. Nobody has unlimited supply of money. When their goods are sold, the gold can be used to produce or repurchase new goods, maintaining a float.

But that kind of activity isn’t market speculation. Market speculation doesn’t affect price unless huge amounts of supply is removed in anticipation like the mats you can trade for event boxes removes all the lower cost supply.

Behellagh.1468:

But that kind of activity isn’t market speculation. Market speculation doesn’t affect price unless huge amounts of supply is removed in anticipation like the mats you can trade for event boxes removes all the lower cost supply.

Monopolizing the market isn’t market speculation, it is much worse. Market speculation affect prices. Just because the price increase isn’t a huge amount, it doesn’t mean isn’t inflation.

But you haven’t explained how market speculation affects price!

Saylu.8271:

Behellagh.1468:

But that kind of activity isn’t market speculation. Market speculation doesn’t affect price unless huge amounts of supply is removed in anticipation like the mats you can trade for event boxes removes all the lower cost supply.

Monopolizing the market isn’t market speculation, it is much worse. Market speculation affect prices. Just because the price increase isn’t a huge amount, it doesn’t mean isn’t inflation.

Its not inflation man. Its a rise in price because of the offer and demand, but its not inflation. In both situation its end up in a rise in price, but they don’t come from the same source and don’t have the same impact.

Speculation will rise price on a particular item and usually item that are linked to it (if cooper ore increase in price, then with a certain lag, item that you can salvage cooper ore from will increase and usually cooper ingots will also increase. Why? Only because the offer/demand ratio changed. People buy large quantity of cooper ore because they are sure the price will increase in a incoming path. The price indeed go up but only because the sudden increase in demand (a false demand). Then the path hit, but there is no new use for cooper, so now we have a large increase in offer, but the demand get back to normal, decreasing the price. That’s speculation. In a real world economy, it can be dangerous because a lot of people will end with less money, so less people buying stuff, so less item produce, so less jobs, so less money, etc. But in the game, this concept of moving money around for an healthy economy just don’t exist (and player don’t need to eat so having zero gold is not a big deal).

Inflation on the other hand is money devaluation. Your money have a certain value, if you poor too much new money (printing it in real life, dungeon and loots in the game), then the value of each of your dollar will become less and less important. It not limited to certain items, its increase the prices of ALL items. From the cooper ore to the legendary.

Increased volatility mainly due to bubbles.

People feel they HAVE to have the high end items (like legendaries and precursors) so people buying them (READ DEMAND) pushes up the prices. Also, TP speculators are setting the prices high to see if they can get that price. If you don’t pay the price it will eventually go down but it seems as it every player has to have a legendary or they are nothing the prices will remain high.

A.Net nerfing drops has more to do with players exploiting the beginner areas, like Queensdale (the train err zerg). It is the players who own the fault and the result the nerf of those champs into Veterans except for SB. Don’t blame A.Net, blame yourselves.

The drops are decent in other areas – with SB, this morning, I got 3 rares, so that was fine. I have no issue with raising money but I am not planning to make a Legendary since they are not unique any more (a dime a dozen).

You can’t compare GW1 to GW2 since there was no TP in it. All the economy was run by players and gougers. When A.Net tried to fix the GW1 economy, the players then went to Ecto as the form of payment. Players always try to exploit, it is what they do.

Now, I am not a fanboi. I feel that there are many areas that the game can and should be improved on (more weapons), etc. But, I think a little bit of reality has to be injected in this thread, which basically says ’ It is ALL A.Net’s fault’. Sorry no – they only react to what players do.

Behellagh.1468:

Inflation is ONLY when currency loses it’s value. Everything becomes more expensive, not just luxury items and especially basic items.

uhmmm……………….. this is simply and plain not true.
Inflation is a sustained increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time.
What is true that it reflects a reduction in the purchasing power per unit of money.
But this is the outcome not the reason.

As example…. a monopoly also leads to inflation.
Take the Mithrill Lumps. A-net put a 24h cap on to produce them.
Since a lot of people need them the prices raising for just a virtual reason.
When you could buy Deldrimor Steel for 2 gold before you pay now 3.5 gold.
If you assume now you have the same amount of Gold you get less Deldrimor Steel for that for absolute no reason despite the Gold have the same value than before.

Pure inflation without currency losing value.

Behellagh.1468:

But you haven’t explained how market speculation affects price!

Same as reality……………..
If 10.000 people assume cured leather will raise in price they buy or send a value raising signal. That leads to them or other people buying leather that leads to more demands which leads to raising prices.
Same works the other way…..
If you lower the demands and raise the amount of goods the prices will fall.

All that can happen by pure speculations based on nothing.

There are many terms for inflation that get interchanged frequently. Inflation, price-inflation, demand inflation, e.t.c.

Vol.7601:

There are many terms for inflation that get interchanged frequently. Inflation, price-inflation, demand inflation, e.t.c.

And often interchanged incorrectly too. Inflating demand is not market inflation, it’s a rise in demand that occurs quickly enough that it’s not merely a “rise” in demand. Most of the other terms are similar.

Kurrilino.2706:

Behellagh.1468:

But you haven’t explained how market speculation affects price!

Same as reality……………..
If 10.000 people assume cured leather will raise in price they buy or send a value raising signal. That leads to them or other people buying leather that leads to more demands which leads to raising prices.
Same works the other way…..
If you lower the demands and raise the amount of goods the prices will fall.

All that can happen by pure speculations based on nothing.

Exactly – think the commodities market in the US. That is how the TP works in this game.

Completely agree with all three. But there are two other major issues with the TP. First they made it the center of the games experience. There is no farming to be had, you go out you manage to get a few items from the drops that do occur and you sell those for gold to buy what you do need, that’s not farming the items you need yourself, that’s farming gold to be able to buy these things. That’s a terrible system and it goes right along with your first item.

Second is too much RNG seriously why are bags from the laurel vendor a random item drop when you open them? If you’re going to spend laurels you should be able to buy a quantity of the exact T6 item you need for crafting, there should be no mystery, no gamblingto this. There’s also the issue of gambling in the farming of bags. You have an RNG roll to get a bag, that’s modified by DR, and an RNG roll to see what comes out of it, also modified by DR.

DR has gotten so bad that I’ve personally witnessed getting Unidentifiable Objects from boss bags this past week alone! I mean cmon you can’t even let the bags be free of DR? Bug or not it’s ridiculous and it’s NOT the first time we’ve seen this behavior, remember all of the boxes disappearing from champions and dungeons? Yeah that was DR too. And this is aside from the fact that DR has done exactly 0 to get rid of gold sellers.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Kurrilino.2706:

Behellagh.1468:

But you haven’t explained how market speculation affects price!

Same as reality……………..
If 10.000 people assume cured leather will raise in price they buy or send a value raising signal. That leads to them or other people buying leather that leads to more demands which leads to raising prices.
Same works the other way…..
If you lower the demands and raise the amount of goods the prices will fall.

All that can happen by pure speculations based on nothing.

Exactly – think the commodities market in the US. That is how the TP works in this game.

Except you’re forgetting something. People can exploit in this game still. 7 accounts, the early release of not just one but multiple lucky accounts getting precursors from the island event and others, precursors not being craftable, the nerfing of loot from the mystic toilet the consistant nerfs to open world PVE farming, DR malfunctions, double RNG on craft bags, all of these things contribute to certain prices raising as well and all of these things have been allowed to continue unhindered by the developers and all of these things have affected the market. History shows that when games have economies like this one they don’t last very long because players get tired of not being rewarded for their game play and eventually will permanently leave it also shows that players who leave will forever boycott those games made by said developers in the future because loyalty will have been destroyed. It’s just a matter of time before the hype wears off.

tigirius.9014:

Completely agree with all three. But there are two other major issues with the TP. First they made it the center of the games experience. There is no farming to be had, you go out you manage to get a few items from the drops that do occur and you sell those for gold to buy what you do need, that’s not farming the items you need yourself, that’s farming gold to be able to buy these things. That’s a terrible system and it goes right along with your first item.

Second is too much RNG seriously why are bags from the laurel vendor a random item drop when you open them? If you’re going to spend laurels you should be able to buy a quantity of the exact T6 item you need for crafting, there should be no mystery, no gamblingto this. There’s also the issue of gambling in the farming of bags. You have an RNG roll to get a bag, that’s modified by DR, and an RNG roll to see what comes out of it, also modified by DR.

DR has gotten so bad that I’ve personally witnessed getting Unidentifiable Objects from boss bags this past week alone! I mean cmon you can’t even let the bags be free of DR? Bug or not it’s ridiculous and it’s NOT the first time we’ve seen this behavior, remember all of the boxes disappearing from champions and dungeons? Yeah that was DR too. And this is aside from the fact that DR has done exactly 0 to get rid of gold sellers.

I don’t think it is the center of the game experience. I mean this is not a P2W game with the TP. If you want to use it, fine, if you don’t, fine too. This is the point. Nothing in the TP is needed and everything you get there (except for the armor skins which are EXTRA).

What makes the TP front and center?

If you look at the Gold Sellers, they are stealing accounts – as many of the accounts do not have 0 achievement points (as they did before) – many have 400 or more (meaning stolen accounts). If people would not buy gold, they wouldn’t be in game but people do so it makes the rewards out way the risks.

Lishtenbird.2814:

(Or, well, warriors need no silk.)

Seems someone isn’t so informed. They most certainly do if they want ascended armor.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_armor

Lothirieth.3408:

Lishtenbird.2814:

(Or, well, warriors need no silk.)

Seems someone isn’t so informed. They most certainly do if they want ascended armor.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_armor

YUP…..

Skugga.5298:

There is only 1 big economy problem in this game and that is the gem store !

As long as they have their gem store , they will nerf every farming spot, you’ll keep getting meaningless loot, and every new update will be behind the gem store.

Might aswell login open the gem store and just play that game instead because that’s what they want. “We made a game for the players!”, Lol ! During that manifesto they should have phrased it "We made a store for the stupid :`) ! ".

One of the real offenders is Not so Much The Gem Store. It is The Gold In the gem store.

Gems can be exchanged for gold, and this unfortunately places the devs where they have a conflict of interest. If they allow Players to " Gold farm" then you have 2 new issues.

1. No one Buys Gems with cash to buy Gold.
2. No one buys Gems with cash to buy gem store items, since they can trade Gold for gems.

So for Anet to make a profit, the temptation is there, to nerf any gold farms to the ground. That way Players cannot earn enough Gold consistently… and repeatedly. That leads to Players using Gold to Buy gems, which doesn’t Put a dime Into Anet’s pockets.

Now…if that is done judiciously… and carefully… then most people will Not care. Maybe Most people do Not care, and this is a Tempest in a teapot. But…

If the devs lean TOO far into nerfing Gold farming, it begins to feel Like " Use Gems to buy Gold." begins to feel like Pay2win. using some gems to buy Gold cause you want that outfit today…but you know you can always farm the gems at any time..is one thing…

If the players ever get to where they feel the only consistent, repeatable way to earn Gold is by swiping a credit card…. that’s somehting else entirely.

The purpose of the Gem to Gold aspect of the exchange is to provide players with an approved way to buy gold with cash. There are always players who want to do that and it’s better to provide them with a safe way to do this than have them deal with someone who likely used questionable means to collect that much gold.

It’s financed by the Gold to Gem side of the exchange. This way any gold paid out was first gold that was paid in, gold that only came from game activities. This doesn’t sink the gold permanently but does lock it up in kind of a gold permafrost. It’s part of the economy, just not active at this time. Like gold in inactive player’s accounts.

I don’t think ANet is shutting down sources of rewards to promote Cash to Gem to Gold. I think they know exactly how much gold is entering the game daily/weekly/monthly and know exactly how much is permanently removed in the same time period and they try to keep that reasonably balanced. They also track how much is currently on active players as well as how much is tied up in escrow on the TP.

Now if the average rate of acquisition is higher than normal, and this extra isn’t being removed by one of the gold sinks, something has to be done and reward drops adjusted. Just as item drops are adjusted and new uses introduced to remove excess supply.

Biggest problem with the economy is that you can make money out of nothing (relatively speaking, you put effort and time into but the system doesn’t have a fix amount of currency, new currency enters the system from nothing). It leads to massive inflation, and thus that rewards seem unrewarding. For example if we increase activities / event rewards the inflation would increase and the rewards would become useless again. TP works as a mild gold sink, but unless we’re able to have money leave the system as quickly as it comes in we’ll always have inflation. Now that I think about it Gold → Gems is also a decent gold sink, although stock wise there’s only so many things to buy.

anyways what i mean is this:
you should be able to make gold to get anything you want by playing the game itself like: events. world bosses,dungeon.LS stuff, wvw and pvp etc
i did sold some dungeon paths with my cousin and we shared profit which some time went up to 100g a day. i made my kudzu in 25 days with selling( 3 hours a day average)
well that is ridiculous, the dungeon sellers making more money than people who are playing the game, and no soloing is not something special, it is possible in this game thanks to design flows and skipping or standing in safe place and hit the boss.
dungeon must not be solo able to begin with, it is a MULTI player game after all.
tp playing is all about placing order for stuff then sell them higher even a bit or wait for price to raise up. involving luck and speculation therefore the guy with 7 accounts place ton of orders and get stuff cheaper and sell it higher, the sum of all little profit he makes is gonna be like 200g a day which makes him way more richer than you who is playing the game.THANKS TO NO TP REGULATIONS.
if you are wvw player or pvp or dungeon runner in a legit way you are at disadvantage in compare with them.
the economy which is basically all about gold==farming/grind and all about use and abuse the poor system will eventually result in broken economy and heaven for grinders which gw2 is a heaven for them already.((all 3rd class asian mmos are heaven for grinders as well))
those grinders and tp players have zero value for any game since they do not need the cash shop at all.
this game must change into game for legit and honest players and stop being heaven for grinders/farmers.

saye.9304:

2:: TP players, i have seen you tube videos on somebody who has 7 accounts but all he does is to play TP rather than playing the game, yes that is true ,7 accounts and he is not playing the game and he and his kind are richest people in game, owning the games economy.

State your qualifications or achievements (real achievements like work/experience/masters degree/success with TP (5 digits min)/etc, not pathetic achievement points) that give your opinion any form of authority on TP being a problem for the economy.

Lothirieth.3408:

Lishtenbird.2814:

(Or, well, warriors need no silk.)

Seems someone isn’t so informed. They most certainly do if they want ascended armor.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_armor

My mistake here, I acknowledge it. I really believed in metal armor requiring, ugh, 90-100% metal and not 60% cloth.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Lothirieth.3408:

Lishtenbird.2814:

(Or, well, warriors need no silk.)

Seems someone isn’t so informed. They most certainly do if they want ascended armor.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_armor

My mistake here, I acknowledge it. I really believed in metal armor requiring, ugh, 90-100% metal and not 60% cloth.

Even if it is heavy armor, cloth is still used in it’s production, as well as actually wearing it. Not only is it padding due to the weight, it also hampers heat transfer (you’ve seen how hot a car’s interior gets in the summer sun), and acts as an additional layer of protection when thick enough if the metal itself is punctured (no need to give yourself lacerations every time you move).

That being said, leather would make more sense than cloth for the production of it.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Even if it is heavy armor, cloth is still used in it’s production, as well as actually wearing it. Not only is it padding due to the weight, it also hampers heat transfer (you’ve seen how hot a car’s interior gets in the summer sun), and acts as an additional layer of protection when thick enough if the metal itself is punctured (no need to give yourself lacerations every time you move).

That being said, leather would make more sense than cloth for the production of it.

Yes, having some cloth (or rather leather) for padding and such made sense for me, but it didn’t go beyond 10% (ok, 20% max). The things I have in mind when speaking about heavy armour are usually the stereotype empty metal shells from movies with castles, and googling “knight armour” didn’t make it any better.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Even if it is heavy armor, cloth is still used in it’s production, as well as actually wearing it. Not only is it padding due to the weight, it also hampers heat transfer (you’ve seen how hot a car’s interior gets in the summer sun), and acts as an additional layer of protection when thick enough if the metal itself is punctured (no need to give yourself lacerations every time you move).

That being said, leather would make more sense than cloth for the production of it.

Yes, having some cloth (or rather leather) for padding and such made sense for me, but it didn’t go beyond 10% (ok, 20% max). The things I have in mind when speaking about heavy armour are usually the stereotype empty metal shells from movies with castles, and googling “knight armour” didn’t make it any better.

Well, you’re searches are simply returning the armor itself. The armor itself is basically all metal, if you disregard the leather used to facilitate joints (like the fingers) and closure straps. Wearing it, however, does require cloth, though such use of the cloth is not for armor itself. Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HwRqJwXXcQ You’ll notice that the person putting the armor on is wearing padded cloth (the reddish/pink) and is wearing chainmail over it.

There’s basically 3 layers to the armor:

• Plate armor, the atypical “armor” people talk about. Helps defend against stabbing and slicing attacks which could cut through the other two layers individually.
• Chainmail (hauberk), a shirt made from metal rings (think frodo’s magic shirt) that provides defense against arrows, which treat plate armor as if it was paper. Individual rings are too small to allow an arrow to pass through very far. Also acts as secondary armor if plate armor is beyond repair, though by this point you’re probably a dead man anyways.
• Cloth. Simple as a shirt, as complicated as what amounts to wearing a stuffed quilt. Offsets the weight of the armor on the body, prevents chafing, and provides some protection against blunt weapons.

Think of each component as a different safety component in a car. Sure an airbag, seatbelts, and brakes can each keep you from being injured individually when the circumstances are right. But, since this is reality, a seatbelt wont keep your head from splitting open like watermelon against the steering wheel without an airbag to buffer the impact and brakes to slow down the vehicle in an attempt to reduce the impact force.

saye.9304:

well that is ridiculous, the dungeon sellers making more money than people who are playing the game, and no soloing is not something special, it is possible in this game thanks to design flows and skipping or standing in safe place and hit the boss.
dungeon must not be solo able to begin with, it is a MULTI player game after all.

Yet I sell legit dungeon runs, making a whooping 30+g for an hour of work. I believe I’m playing the game, just adding the difficulty it lacks by soloing content without making use of blatant exploits.

And yes it’s a multi-player game, which is nice. I wouldn’t get buyers otherwise :>

saye.9304:

if you are wvw player or pvp or dungeon runner in a legit way you are at disadvantage in compare with them.

Running dungeons in a “normal way” gets me almost the same profit and as I do them with friends I have the fun added.

saye.9304:

the economy which is basically all about gold==farming/grind and all about use and abuse the poor system will eventually result in broken economy and heaven for grinders which gw2 is a heaven for them already.((all 3rd class asian mmos are heaven for grinders as well))
those grinders and tp players have zero value for any game since they do not need the cash shop at all.

You can enjoy the game with 0 gold. Heck, you can play at a competitive level in the game with zero gold ! Don’t complain that you aren’t rich when you obviously aren’t up to actually making money and just spit on those working for their shinies.

And I strongly believe that I have value for the game. I bought accounts, gifted the game to friends, helped in building a healthy community that keeps growing…

What did you do ? Apart from exploiting paths to sell them and complaining on the forums for not being the richest player in the game, I mean…

CureForLiving.5360:

Biggest problem with the economy is that you can make money out of nothing (relatively speaking, you put effort and time into but the system doesn’t have a fix amount of currency, new currency enters the system from nothing). It leads to massive inflation, and thus that rewards seem unrewarding. For example if we increase activities / event rewards the inflation would increase and the rewards would become useless again. TP works as a mild gold sink, but unless we’re able to have money leave the system as quickly as it comes in we’ll always have inflation. Now that I think about it Gold -> Gems is also a decent gold sink, although stock wise there’s only so many things to buy.

You are looking at things at the wrong angle. You have to look at the concept of scarcity of resources and unlimited wants. When goods are limited and there is competition for goods, the goods goes to people who will pay the most for them. Doesn’t matter how much gold is in the economy, they goes to the people with most gold. Doesn’t matter if a item double in price, people with lots of gold can still afford it. Doesn’t matter if a item reduce by half, people with no gold still can’t afford it.

Our economy is all about exchanging goods and service for money, or theoretically nothing.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Well, you’re searches are simply returning the armor itself. The armor itself is basically all metal, if you disregard the leather used to facilitate joints (like the fingers) and closure straps. Wearing it, however, does require cloth, though such use of the cloth is not for armor itself.

That’s pretty much the perception problem here, I think. While it’s obvious one has to wear some clothes underneath the metal parts (unless you’re a charr maybe), the cloth parts are not perceived as “armour” as I believe those are to a large extent independent from the other parts, and in a video game it feels like you’re crafting the metal look itself and the cloth parts come for free just as underwear or town clothes.

TL;DR: I agree that having cloth in a full “armor set” is required IRL, but when crafting it in a video game, it feels like the cloth is not part of it but a free universal asset.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Well, you’re searches are simply returning the armor itself. The armor itself is basically all metal, if you disregard the leather used to facilitate joints (like the fingers) and closure straps. Wearing it, however, does require cloth, though such use of the cloth is not for armor itself.

That’s pretty much the perception problem here, I think. While it’s obvious one has to wear some clothes underneath the metal parts (unless you’re a charr maybe), the cloth parts are not perceived as “armour” as I believe those are to a large extent independent from the other parts, and in a video game it feels like you’re crafting the metal look itself and the cloth parts come for free just as underwear or town clothes.

TL;DR: I agree that having cloth in a full “armor set” is required IRL, but when crafting it in a video game, it feels like the cloth is not part of it but a free universal asset.

God, imagine the complaints if you had to use a light or medium armor piece in the crafting of heavy armor.

Aidan Savage.2078:

God, imagine the complaints if you had to use a light or medium armor piece in the crafting of heavy armor.

Hm… I actually like that idea Especially after having to craft light ascended with tons of damask and leveling leatherworking just for the backpiece. After all, metal can be bot-harvested to bring it to market, while cloth mats cannot.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Aidan Savage.2078:

God, imagine the complaints if you had to use a light or medium armor piece in the crafting of heavy armor.

Hm… I actually like that idea Especially after having to craft light ascended with tons of damask and leveling leatherworking just for the backpiece.

Unfortunately it’d add an undue cost to heavy armor, especially considering medium armor only takes 1 less BoD, but requires 18 elonian leather. Not to mention the extra 18 BoD required for the insignia.

Dusty Moon.4382:

tigirius.9014:

Completely agree with all three. But there are two other major issues with the TP. First they made it the center of the games experience. There is no farming to be had, you go out you manage to get a few items from the drops that do occur and you sell those for gold to buy what you do need, that’s not farming the items you need yourself, that’s farming gold to be able to buy these things. That’s a terrible system and it goes right along with your first item.

Second is too much RNG seriously why are bags from the laurel vendor a random item drop when you open them? If you’re going to spend laurels you should be able to buy a quantity of the exact T6 item you need for crafting, there should be no mystery, no gamblingto this. There’s also the issue of gambling in the farming of bags. You have an RNG roll to get a bag, that’s modified by DR, and an RNG roll to see what comes out of it, also modified by DR.

DR has gotten so bad that I’ve personally witnessed getting Unidentifiable Objects from boss bags this past week alone! I mean cmon you can’t even let the bags be free of DR? Bug or not it’s ridiculous and it’s NOT the first time we’ve seen this behavior, remember all of the boxes disappearing from champions and dungeons? Yeah that was DR too. And this is aside from the fact that DR has done exactly 0 to get rid of gold sellers.

I don’t think it is the center of the game experience. I mean this is not a P2W game with the TP. If you want to use it, fine, if you don’t, fine too. This is the point. Nothing in the TP is needed and everything you get there (except for the armor skins which are EXTRA).

What makes the TP front and center?

If you look at the Gold Sellers, they are stealing accounts – as many of the accounts do not have 0 achievement points (as they did before) – many have 400 or more (meaning stolen accounts). If people would not buy gold, they wouldn’t be in game but people do so it makes the rewards out way the risks.

What makes it front and center? Hmmm let’s see the double RNG gambling on T6 materials comes to mind, the fact that rares don’t always drop from open world or bosses, the fact that Unidentifiable Object has become the newest in a long line of continual bugs with DR comes to mind.

When you can’t farm adequately without spending an entire month or more on a single item ( Dontain, a game reviewer on youtube, I think spent like several months trying to get up enough of the materials he needed for his legendary) needed to fulfill a 250 item requirement for crafting, that’s a problem. When skins sell for 540 gold a piece that’s a problem. When runes/sigils sell for 12-15 gold a pop and are only available from the gambling style drops that’s a problem. Unless you’re looking from the point of view of one of those lucky accounts that never seems to fail at getting loot no matter what happens in a patch.

tigirius.9014:

Dusty Moon.4382:

tigirius.9014:

Completely agree with all three. But there are two other major issues with the TP. First they made it the center of the games experience. There is no farming to be had, you go out you manage to get a few items from the drops that do occur and you sell those for gold to buy what you do need, that’s not farming the items you need yourself, that’s farming gold to be able to buy these things. That’s a terrible system and it goes right along with your first item.

Second is too much RNG seriously why are bags from the laurel vendor a random item drop when you open them? If you’re going to spend laurels you should be able to buy a quantity of the exact T6 item you need for crafting, there should be no mystery, no gamblingto this. There’s also the issue of gambling in the farming of bags. You have an RNG roll to get a bag, that’s modified by DR, and an RNG roll to see what comes out of it, also modified by DR.

DR has gotten so bad that I’ve personally witnessed getting Unidentifiable Objects from boss bags this past week alone! I mean cmon you can’t even let the bags be free of DR? Bug or not it’s ridiculous and it’s NOT the first time we’ve seen this behavior, remember all of the boxes disappearing from champions and dungeons? Yeah that was DR too. And this is aside from the fact that DR has done exactly 0 to get rid of gold sellers.

I don’t think it is the center of the game experience. I mean this is not a P2W game with the TP. If you want to use it, fine, if you don’t, fine too. This is the point. Nothing in the TP is needed and everything you get there (except for the armor skins which are EXTRA).

What makes the TP front and center?

If you look at the Gold Sellers, they are stealing accounts – as many of the accounts do not have 0 achievement points (as they did before) – many have 400 or more (meaning stolen accounts). If people would not buy gold, they wouldn’t be in game but people do so it makes the rewards out way the risks.

What makes it front and center? Hmmm let’s see the double RNG gambling on T6 materials comes to mind, the fact that rares don’t always drop from open world or bosses, the fact that Unidentifiable Object has become the newest in a long line of continual bugs with DR comes to mind.

When you can’t farm adequately without spending an entire month or more on a single item ( Dontain, a game reviewer on youtube, I think spent like several months trying to get up enough of the materials he needed for his legendary) needed to fulfill a 250 item requirement for crafting, that’s a problem. When skins sell for 540 gold a piece that’s a problem. When runes/sigils sell for 12-15 gold a pop and are only available from the gambling style drops that’s a problem. Unless you’re looking from the point of view of one of those lucky accounts that never seems to fail at getting loot no matter what happens in a patch.

Every TP I have seen there has been gambling by players. You cannot avoid that.

Every game has the same issue – it is not a unique problem to this game. If the drop rate was the same for all items, y’all would complain also. That is why there are Rare – ultra-rare – OMG rare :-) items.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Every TP I have seen there has been gambling by players. You cannot avoid that.

Every game has the same issue – it is not a unique problem to this game. If the drop rate was the same for all items, y’all would complain also. That is why there are Rare – ultra-rare – OMG rare :-) items.

I agree with the first bit. Flippers are in every game and there’s nothing wrong with that.

But the second bit I don’t completely agree with. Other games I’ve played have made it where you earn best in slot gear through completing raids or dungeons and not randomly farming gold to then buy stuff off the TP. In other games I was completely self sufficient. I could farm any mat I needed and raided for all my gear. It was rare I bought stuff off any auction house. This is so very not possible in GW2. I’d rather GW2 was more like Rift regarding a cash shop. Still have it where people can buy store currency with in game gold or real life money, so there’s still that exchange, but keep best in slot armor only obtainable through challenging gameplay. I think that would go farther towards satisfying more people. Flippers could still have their fun, people could go to the TP/AH if they didn’t feel like farming, and those who wish to be self sufficient could be.

Lothirieth.3408:

Other games I’ve played have made it where you earn best in slot gear through completing raids or dungeons and not randomly farming gold to then buy stuff off the TP.

That is a perception problem and the other side of the “play how you want” medal.

Just imagine if all exotics could be received only from dungeons and were not available on TP (and path selling was forbidden)… Don’t you already see the amount of ragequit threads from Queensdale train casuals claiming that their “play-how-I-wants” are now gated into difficult content which requires getting proper builds and coordinating with other people’s “play-how-I-wants”?

That’s a casual game, so farming something else and buying is a good option. It’s actually freedom of choice which replaces depending on other people and grinding unenjoyable content for being on par with everyone else, and that’s good.

Why would making precursor drop rate make the game better? It’s suppose to be a challenge and effort to make a legendary, if you handed the precursor why make the thing. If you farm the gold for the legendary or the money to make the weapon or even farm the gold to buy the rares to forge your working for it. Why should they be made easier to obtain it’s a legendary they should be hard to get not easily obtainable. The legendaries in this game are to easy to get and make, there needs to be stuff added to making a legendary to make it harder to obtain. The term legendary in Guild Wars is a laugh when you can make one in a short period of time since you can buy pretty much all the stuff for them.

Lothirieth.3408:

But the second bit I don’t completely agree with. Other games I’ve played have made it where you earn best in slot gear through completing raids or dungeons and not randomly farming gold to then buy stuff off the TP.

Run Fractals. Once you’re PR is high enough, you start earning chances at ascended gear.

Behellagh.1468:

But you haven’t explained how market speculation affects price!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

Wanderer.3248:

Behellagh.1468:

But you haven’t explained how market speculation affects price!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

I was asking Saylu specifically to explain relating to our TP. I was curious if he was just parroting a phrase he heard as a cause or if he was mislabeling one type of activity as another. Since he hadn’t replied to that question, I’ll finally elaborate.

In general an individual speculating should have no impact. If I price all my sell orders for mithal at 1s it has no bearing on the current price. Same is true if I start to accumulate, gradually, well below it’s supply rate, an item whose price I think will skyrocket at a later date.

The problem comes when it’s en masse. Your wiki link, which I referenced myself in a post months ago about the dye balloon, is an example of players in a market chasing a price up. It’s a “Look, the Dukes are trying to corner the market on frozen orange juice, they must know something” moment. That’s when it’s bad. When supply drops within an hour to 1/10th of it’s previous levels, which causes a price jump and makes it a self fulfilling prophesy.

The “real” speculators were buying dyes during the month before that with little movement on the price. They sold within the first day after supply plummeted and prices shot up. All of those players who bought on patch day weren’t speculators and what they were doing wasn’t speculating in any sense of the word. Mass hysteria may be a better term.

“A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. " That describes the TP to a T.

Realist.5812:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Nothing about selling dungeon paths is an exploit, and if Arah wasn’t such a gigantic poorly-balanced pain in the kitten there wouldn’t be a market for it.

Arah > noobs.

So just because some terrible players are used to faceroll 1 mashing the rest of PvE, they shouldn’t have to learn how to actually play better? Ever?

Dat logik dough.

Well, noobs generally don’t get to sell Arah paths…

I don’t see why path selling offends you. It’s not so different if four good players decide to bring a fifth friend who’s a noob and let him AFK through Arah.

Would you demand that they kick their fifth useless friend? What goes on in their dungeon run is not your business.

Behellagh.1468:

Wanderer.3248:

Behellagh.1468:

But you haven’t explained how market speculation affects price!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

I was asking Saylu specifically to explain relating to our TP. I was curious if he was just parroting a phrase he heard as a cause or if he was mislabeling one type of activity as another. Since he hadn’t replied to that question, I’ll finally elaborate.

In general an individual speculating should have no impact. If I price all my sell orders for mithal at 1s it has no bearing on the current price. Same is true if I start to accumulate, gradually, well below it’s supply rate, an item whose price I think will skyrocket at a later date.

The problem comes when it’s en masse. Your wiki link, which I referenced myself in a post months ago about the dye balloon, is an example of players in a market chasing a price up. It’s a “Look, the Dukes are trying to corner the market on frozen orange juice, they must know something” moment. That’s when it’s bad. When supply drops within an hour to 1/10th of it’s previous levels, which causes a price jump and makes it a self fulfilling prophesy.

The “real” speculators were buying dyes during the month before that with little movement on the price. They sold within the first day after supply plummeted and prices shot up. All of those players who bought on patch day weren’t speculators and what they were doing wasn’t speculating in any sense of the word. Mass hysteria may be a better term.

“A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. " That describes the TP to a T.

I did say “Market speculation isn’t necessarily bad, excessive speculation is.” Someone already explain how market speculation affect price so I don’t think there is a need for me to.

I don’t think you answered correctly when I ask about inflation. Someone pointed out "Inflation is a sustained increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. " which I think is more accurate.

An individual speculating have “little” market impact. An individual farming gold have little impact. When lot of people are farming gold, you will see a substantial impact. It is the same with speculating. Saying there is none is incorrect.

Saylu.8271:

Behellagh.1468:

Wanderer.3248:

Behellagh.1468:

But you haven’t explained how market speculation affects price!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

I was asking Saylu specifically to explain relating to our TP. I was curious if he was just parroting a phrase he heard as a cause or if he was mislabeling one type of activity as another. Since he hadn’t replied to that question, I’ll finally elaborate.

In general an individual speculating should have no impact. If I price all my sell orders for mithal at 1s it has no bearing on the current price. Same is true if I start to accumulate, gradually, well below it’s supply rate, an item whose price I think will skyrocket at a later date.

The problem comes when it’s en masse. Your wiki link, which I referenced myself in a post months ago about the dye balloon, is an example of players in a market chasing a price up. It’s a “Look, the Dukes are trying to corner the market on frozen orange juice, they must know something” moment. That’s when it’s bad. When supply drops within an hour to 1/10th of it’s previous levels, which causes a price jump and makes it a self fulfilling prophesy.

The “real” speculators were buying dyes during the month before that with little movement on the price. They sold within the first day after supply plummeted and prices shot up. All of those players who bought on patch day weren’t speculators and what they were doing wasn’t speculating in any sense of the word. Mass hysteria may be a better term.

“A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. " That describes the TP to a T.

I did say “Market speculation isn’t necessarily bad, excessive speculation is.” Someone already explain how market speculation affect price so I don’t think there is a need for me to.

I don’t think you answered correctly when I ask about inflation. Someone pointed out "Inflation is a sustained increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. " which I think is more accurate.

An individual speculating have “little” market impact. An individual farming gold have little impact. When lot of people are farming gold, you will see a substantial impact. It is the same with speculating. Saying there is none is incorrect.

I’ll say it again
WHo tried to explain how speculation works are people abusing the economy.

But we have a clear proof they are wrong.

People farm more gold, prices increase.
Gold farming is extremely nerfed, prices increase anyway.

That alone proves we have an economy with something affecting pricers more than a huge amount of players farming gold.

And you know what it is?
Market manipulation.

(Before someone tells JS said only few monoply were successfull…already proved that manipulation is not monopoly and even failed monopoly attempt, pushed the price and almost Always got huge returns for manipulators).

///new page forum bug fix///

LordByron.8369:

That alone proves we have an economy with something affecting pricers more than a huge amount of players farming gold.

Like players converting gems to gold and bringing tons of gold out of thin air while bypassing the natural time barrier designed to exist in farming?