Guild Wars 2

According to this,

http://www.dragonseason.com/activity/390/

Anet sent them the complete changelog for the upcoming update, and it includes this little tidbit that was never mentioned in all the lead-up:

• The attribute difference between exotic and ascended gear has been changed from 5% to 10%

This is a complete contradiction of Anet’s assertions that there would be no treadmill, no gear-based power creep. I’m sure I don’t need to remind anyone who was around for it of the massive uprising that was caused when Ascended tier equipment was first added into the game. Many people left the game over that mess. I myself stopped playing for many months due to the bad taste it left.This is the exact same thing all over again.

The fact that it is a buff to the existing top-tier gear instead of a new one is nothing but semantics, a sneaky way to force people to get Ascended who were doing just fine without it. The game has been and should’ve continued to be balanced around Exotic-tier power levels.

It seems Anet has, once again, betrayed the spirit of the vaunted Manifesto by forcing players to get on the treadmill and grind for ridiculously expensive Ascended gear if they want to remain competitive. This will also certainly lead to “ascended only” LFGs and other elitist nonsense.

Why have we heard nothing of this until now? Was the plan simply to hope no-one would notice it amongst all the other changes? What possible justification can be made for starting this gear-based power creep all over again?

This is the buff because of the removal of stats from trait lines. We’ve known about it for months now… Sorry you missed the memo I guess…

good. it should of been this way all along. Its not gear treadmill at all, people should work to get ascended gear.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This is the buff because of the removal of stats from trait lines. We’ve known about it for months now… Sorry you missed the memo I guess…

Incorrect. This is changing the ratio of power between Exotic and Ascended. Even including the overall increase from moving trait-based stats to gear, that ratio should not be changing.

Azure.8670:

good. it should of been this way all along. Its not gear treadmill at all, people should work to get ascended gear.

You just completely contradicted yourself, saying that it isn’t a treadmill, then in the same breath demanding that people go “work” to get it.

Just to point out the obvious here: buffing existing gear is the OPPOSITE of a gear treadmill.

not seeing the forced part here. maybe I missed the part in the patch notes where Anet will break into everyone’s homes and hold them hostage until they craft ascended gear.

seriously though, if you don’t want ascended, don’t craft ascended. simple as that.

Are you really taking some random website seriously instead of waiting for the official patch notes?

But if the gap is getting larger that means Ascended is getting even better. The argument was always “pff, not a big deal, only 5%”.

This isn’t about spreading the lost stats to armor, it’s about the performance difference between exotic and ascended.

Personally i never heard of that website, no idea how legit it is so i’ll caution on the side of not at all.

Varezenem.2813:

Are you really taking some random website seriously instead of waiting for the official patch notes?

I certainly am, when they claim they were sent them directly from Anet, and the notes contain everything else that we already knew to be coming. If this change isn’t true, let it be clarified as incorrect, and everything will be fine. However, I suspect no such correction will be coming.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Varezenem.2813:

Are you really taking some random website seriously instead of waiting for the official patch notes?

I certainly am, when they claim they were sent them directly from Anet, and the notes contain everything else that we already knew to be coming. If this change isn’t true, let it be clarified as incorrect, and everything will be fine. However, I suspect no such correction will be coming.

If we knew it was coming how wouldn’t they know it too?

Why does this site get patch notes early, and if this is common, why is there no NDA until the patch?

This seems unusual, to say the least.

Edit: Hmm…just read some of it; there seems to be an awful lot of typos. They use the word skill for Traits, the Mystic Forge explanation is unclear, several other spelling errors.

Are you sure this was sent by ArenaNet?

Lol. Manifesto, treadmill, ascended and power creep in 1 post.

If you pay attention all that we know to be true is a copy paste from anets post even with the same mistakes mistakes while everything else does not follow their pattern.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

This is a complete contradiction of Anet’s assertions that there would be no treadmill, no gear-based power creep. I’m sure I don’t need to remind anyone who was around for it of the massive uprising that was caused when Ascended tier equipment was first added into the game.

No, I really think you do.

omg… this dragonseason crap is already in other posts, too

They are buffing existing armor that has been in the game since the first year of release. You are seriously going to cry “treadmills” and “power creep” for a tier you’ve had years to obtain and has been the de facto top tier? Like seriously?

If they added another tier, sure, we could talk about gear treadmills (although Legendary is a tier, and at some point they will likely have Legendary armor, so I guess start writing about how Anet is starting a treadmill with Legendary armor, save it, and whip it out down the line), but to buff a tier that already exists and has existed for years? Give it a rest…

This change is not a treadmill:
Ascended is still the highest tier, your existing ascended armor is still the best armor.

Ah the gear treadmill that was never going to happen in gw2.

Conski Deshan.2057:

This change is not a treadmill:
Ascended is still the highest tier, your existing ascended armor is still the best armor.

And as far as we know it will be easier to acquire in HoT

Draknar.5748:

They are buffing existing armor that has been in the game since the first year of release. You are seriously going to cry “treadmills” and “power creep” for a tier you’ve had years to obtain and has been the de facto top tier? Like seriously?

If they added another tier, sure, we could talk about gear treadmills (although Legendary is a tier, and at some point they will likely have Legendary armor, so I guess start writing about how Anet is starting a treadmill with Legendary armor, save it, and whip it out down the line), but to buff a tier that already exists and has existed for years? Give it a rest…

Conski Deshan.2057:

This change is not a treadmill:
Ascended is still the highest tier, your existing ascended armor is still the best armor.

I’ve already addressed this. In terms of power creep, this is no different from adding a new tier of gear. It’s simply another way of doing the same thing, making best-in-slot more powerful, and thus more mandatory, than it was before. It doesn’t matter that it already existed. It should not be becoming more powerful than it already was.

They’ve always said that even though they will never add another tier of gear beyond ascended, they are commited to gradual vertical progression. For years, the ascended forum defenders have been trumpeting the first and conveniently ignoring the latter.

As much as defenders are quick to point out that ascended is optional, ArenaNet needs to make sure it isn’t optional for a significant portion of the players. It’s the major carrot they’ve got to keep us coming back and spending money.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Lol. Manifesto, treadmill, ascended and power creep in 1 post.

Bingo!

cuz MLG swag.

Varezenem.2813:

Conski Deshan.2057:

This change is not a treadmill:
Ascended is still the highest tier, your existing ascended armor is still the best armor.

And as far as we know it will be easier to acquire in HoT

And as far as we know it will be harder to acquire in HoT.

Don’t forget, every new zone they’re adding is level 80, no lower level drops to provide the lower tier materials for making new ascended gear. With more players focused in those zones, supplies will go down and costs will go up.

Gibson.4036:

They’ve always said that even though they will never add another tier of gear beyond ascended, they are commited to gradual vertical progression. For years, the ascended forum defenders have been trumpeting the first and conveniently ignoring the latter.

Actually, I recall them saying that they wouldn’t add another tier of gear for now, and that was over a year ago. I think the time limit on that has expired, and when it comes to adding in a new equipment tier “nothing is off the table”.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This is the buff because of the removal of stats from trait lines. We’ve known about it for months now… Sorry you missed the memo I guess…

There was no memo – this change has never previous been announced and is separate in the patch notes from the general armour stat boost – indeed 5% is 5% is 5% so there should have been no change.

Varezenem.2813:

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Varezenem.2813:

Are you really taking some random website seriously instead of waiting for the official patch notes?

I certainly am, when they claim they were sent them directly from Anet, and the notes contain everything else that we already knew to be coming. If this change isn’t true, let it be clarified as incorrect, and everything will be fine. However, I suspect no such correction will be coming.

If we knew it was coming how wouldn’t they know it too?

FYI-
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/June-23-Specialization-Changes/first

Considering most of what’s in there was sited in the other site. It’s not likely they’ve lied about the armor.

Good, the cost vs reward in regards to Ascended vs. Exotic was terrible. The idea of gear normalization was terrible idea anyways, not to mention always existed in the first place.

In regards to “it’s a gear treadmill” is false, the release regularity of more powerful gear boils down to Legendary Weapons and Ascended. For a game that is 4 years old that’s not a treadmill that’s a walker.

So unless Anet removes/normalizes Masterwork, Rare, Exotic, etc. Then there is only the tiers we have now, no treadmill.

They should however complete the set and add legendary armor and be done with it. They can either do the same +buff/changeable stats, or just do a really good skin(not the crap ascended that looks like a filler) and make the stats changeable.

Ascended gear more powerful? Sweet. All that money spent to craft it more justified now and Time

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This is the buff because of the removal of stats from trait lines. We’ve known about it for months now… Sorry you missed the memo I guess…

No if you read the whole patch notes you would note that white to exotic gear is getting about a 30% buff, while ascended gear is getting a 100% buff, this is blatantly creating artificial power creep to force players in to a gear tier that ANet gave their word would always remain optional and never increase.

BrooksP.4318:

They should however complete the set and add legendary armor and be done with it. They can either do the same +buff/changeable stats, or just do a really good skin(not the crap ascended that looks like a filler) and make the stats changeable.

I’d prefer that they make Legendary armor look just like the starting armor, and save the cool skins for armor gained another way. Weapons are enough of a “legendary look”, we don’t need it for armor too.

Azure.8670:

good. it should of been this way all along. Its not gear treadmill at all, people should work to get ascended gear.

So… it’s a gear treadmill? :P

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Draknar.5748:

They are buffing existing armor that has been in the game since the first year of release. You are seriously going to cry “treadmills” and “power creep” for a tier you’ve had years to obtain and has been the de facto top tier? Like seriously?

If they added another tier, sure, we could talk about gear treadmills (although Legendary is a tier, and at some point they will likely have Legendary armor, so I guess start writing about how Anet is starting a treadmill with Legendary armor, save it, and whip it out down the line), but to buff a tier that already exists and has existed for years? Give it a rest…

Conski Deshan.2057:

This change is not a treadmill:
Ascended is still the highest tier, your existing ascended armor is still the best armor.

I’ve already addressed this. In terms of power creep, this is no different from adding a new tier of gear. It’s simply another way of doing the same thing, making best-in-slot more powerful, and thus more mandatory, than it was before. It doesn’t matter that it already existed. It should not be becoming more powerful than it already was.

It’s not power creep either ,its a redistribution of the stats lost from the trait changes… , As long as a person with the highest tier of armor does not have to do any new work it’s nothing like adding a new gear tier. Technically everyone should be working towards ascended anyway as one of the games basic goals. It just wasn’t mandatory (still isn’t)

Carighan.6758:

Azure.8670:

good. it should of been this way all along. Its not gear treadmill at all, people should work to get ascended gear.

So… it’s a gear treadmill? :P

You seem to misunderstand the treadmill part,
If you reach the end of the games armor tiers and get pushed back (I.E a new tier of gear is added) then it functions like a treadmill, if you reach the end and that’s it. Then you’ve just finished developing your character.

What they should have done with ascended is leave the stats alone (eg. straight 5% increase over exotic), but make the stats on it user changeable.

That way, there would be a drive for most players to get the armor and invest in it, and the players that already have it dont have to worry about it not being worth their initial investment.

As it is now, you got 2 types of folks that like this change: the ones that have the gear and will have the advantage in WvW/pve, etc. And the ones that have damask all saved up that will net them a landfall in money. The rich get richer basically.

I’m monitoring this carefully though. Of all the changes, this one has me concerned the most. If the new HoT content requires ascended armor, then i’m out. With 9+ characters that I play equally, theres no way i can gear them all up (not to mention the time sink in there) to play the new content. Again, assuming the difficulty level is balanced around the new ascended stats.

Conski Deshan.2057:

It’s not power creep either ,its a redistribution of the stats lost from the trait changes… , As long as a person with the highest tier of armor does not have to do any new work it’s nothing like adding a new gear tier. Technically everyone should be working towards ascended anyway as one of the games basic goals. It just wasn’t mandatory (still isn’t)

It’s more of an increase than any other tier of gear is getting, so it’s not just a redistribution of the stats lost from the trait changes.

The small amount to be gained by going from exotic to ascended was actually presented as a point in its favor when it was introduced. It made it very optional, easily ignored by people that didn’t want to bother with it. Now it’s less optional, especially given that they’re supposed to be adding “challenging group content” with HoT.

ANet took two steps to do what most MMOs do in one, and it IS the first step on a “gear treadmill”. The important question now is “Will they take another step?” IF they stop here, it’s ugly but survivable.

Varezenem.2813:

Are you really taking some random website seriously instead of waiting for the official patch notes?

The authenticity of the patch notes has been verified by ArenaNet dev Devon Carver (http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3a0xf6/arenanet_sent_us_the_entire_patch_notes_for_next/cs8dtq6).

Conski Deshan.2057:

It’s not power creep either ,its a redistribution of the stats lost from the trait changes… , As long as a person with the highest tier of armor does not have to do any new work it’s nothing like adding a new gear tier. Technically everyone should be working towards ascended anyway as one of the games basic goals. It just wasn’t mandatory (still isn’t)

Redistributing stats that all players had and changing the ratios so exotic tier players end up with less than ascended tier players is unnecessary and unwanted by a lot of players.

There wasn’t a large demand to make ascended better, players who acquired it did so understanding what it was, if they were unhappy it’s their own fault. Players who didn’t acquire it are now in the position where their characters are more meaningfully weaker than other players.

Technically a player should do what they want to do. Ascended was to appease the gear grind crowd who need arbitrary stat increases to feel good about their game time.

When players advised other players “you don’t need ascended, it’s unnecessary and usually not worth the cost” that wasn’t a complaint or criticism, it was a sigh of relief and praise that while GW2 did compromise and introduce ascended, it was restrained. The original introduction of ascended actually drove a lot of players away from the game. Players that GW2 is trying to convince to come back to the game with the expansion.

For over two years now ascended has existed with the current stat balance and players have for the most part been fine with that. Why upset that now? What’s to be gained by making a large number of players feel a little bit worse or unsatisfied with their current gear? Why risk alienating players you want to return to the game by creeping up the stats of an incredibly expensive (that’s what ascended is, it’s an economic achievement not a gameplay one) gear tier? What does this say about the future of GW2 and vertical gear progression?

If ArenaNet wanted to make ascended more valuable, why didn’t they leave the existing stats gap as it was (5% jump from exotic) and instead allow ascended weapons to progress horizontally, rewarding players with additional rune/sigil slots after upgrading it, or adding legendary like stat swapping after unlocking combinations. There are ways to progress gear in GW2 without resorting to stat creep on the top tier.

I REALLY hope this is NOT true! 5% was unfair already because they promised no gear treadmill!! -_- This patch is the best time to lower the difference between Exotic and Ascended to 1 or 2%…

Maybe they want to give an incentive and channel players into farming
more ascended gear.
I couldn’t care less about the armor,it’s too much of a grind and waste of gold
I only use ascended trinkets and weapons with exotic armor,but if the power
creep increases from 5% to 10% then that is a significant difference.
If that is the case,then this is a truly innovative way of adding a gear treadmill
without adding a new set of gear.

Palador.2170:

IF they stop here, it’s ugly but survivable.

That sentiment has become so familiar over the last three years.

And the frog, by and large, keeps sitting in the pot.

Exotic gear will be just as good as it was before, maybe even better since trait stats are now re-balanced onto gear. All I see is a buff to a largely unused tier of armor, which nobody should be complaining about. But alas, you guys will complain about anything…

Safari Tank.6238:

Exotic gear will be just as good as it was before, maybe even better since trait stats are now re-balanced onto gear. All I see is a buff to a largely unused tier of armor, which nobody should be complaining about. But alas, you guys will complain about anything…

Funny, I never once complained that exotic was easy to obtain and BiS. In fact, I used that as a selling point of the game when talking to people who didn’t play.

Here is what I would like to see. If Anet wants to keep being Anet and wish to stick to there policies they had since GW1 about no gear grind for stats.

The perfect middle route, And I say this while being a wvw player with 4 acended armor sets:

Disable the difference between acended/exotic stat in WvW, and ONLY make it have a difference in PvE, The acc-bound bonus should be enough for wvw

This is a poor change. And it’s a big enough one where now you’re going to be forced to craft it.

Safari Tank.6238:

Exotic gear will be just as good as it was before, maybe even better since trait stats are now re-balanced onto gear. All I see is a buff to a largely unused tier of armor, which nobody should be complaining about. But alas, you guys will complain about anything…

It’s not largely unused and after this change anyone not using it will be farming for it because it will be required for pretty much everything aside from sPvP.

Sealreth.1425:

Here is what I would like to see. If Anet wants to keep being Anet and wish to stick to there policies they had since GW1 about no gear grind for stats.

The perfect middle route, And I say this while being a wvw player with 4 acended armor sets:

Disable the difference between acended/exotic stat in WvW, and ONLY make it have a difference in PvE, The acc-bound bonus should be enough for wvw

Please no, I PvE only and I find this offensive. Disable the difference everywhere, problem solved. :P

kash.9213:

Safari Tank.6238:

Exotic gear will be just as good as it was before, maybe even better since trait stats are now re-balanced onto gear. All I see is a buff to a largely unused tier of armor, which nobody should be complaining about. But alas, you guys will complain about anything…

It’s not largely unused and after this change anyone not using it will be farming for it because it will be required for pretty much everything aside from sPvP.

It won’t be required. You will be just as strong as you were before (if not more) in your exotic gear. Ascended armor was simply buffed, so now there is an actual reason to get it when there wasn’t before. Don’t get it if you don’t want it.

jadaniel.4910:

Varezenem.2813:

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Varezenem.2813:

Are you really taking some random website seriously instead of waiting for the official patch notes?

I certainly am, when they claim they were sent them directly from Anet, and the notes contain everything else that we already knew to be coming. If this change isn’t true, let it be clarified as incorrect, and everything will be fine. However, I suspect no such correction will be coming.

If we knew it was coming how wouldn’t they know it too?

FYI-
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/June-23-Specialization-Changes/first

Considering most of what’s in there was sited in the other site. It’s not likely they’ve lied about the armor.

ANET posted this topic yesterday this site posted it today and it is clearly a copy from the forum post.

Sealreth.1425:

Disable the difference between acended/exotic stat in WvW, and ONLY make it have a difference in PvE, The acc-bound bonus should be enough for wvw

Why stop there, just normalize WvW like sPVP.

kash.9213:

It’s not largely unused and after this change anyone not using it will be farming for it because it will be required for pretty much everything aside from sPvP.

Now now. You’re not playing the game right. We’re all supposed to pretend that the vast majority of video game players can happily ignore Best-in-Slot gear because the content can be done in the 10% worse tier below.

Safari Tank.6238:

kash.9213:

Safari Tank.6238:

Exotic gear will be just as good as it was before, maybe even better since trait stats are now re-balanced onto gear. All I see is a buff to a largely unused tier of armor, which nobody should be complaining about. But alas, you guys will complain about anything…

It’s not largely unused and after this change anyone not using it will be farming for it because it will be required for pretty much everything aside from sPvP.

It won’t be required. You will be just as strong (if not more) in your exotic gear. It was simply buffed, so now there is an actual reason to get it when there wasn’t before. Don’t get it if you don’t want it.

This doesn’t make sense. Ascended is now 10% stronger than exotic.