Guild Wars 2

SyZ.7920:

People say farm for a legendary … so my two options as a ranger are a bow that shoots flowers or a different bow that shoots unicorns … really?

I’m really into collectibles, and it seems like there are just miniatures or skins. I haven’t seen one miniature in 2 months of playing this game and don’t even know where to get them

I’ve spent none of my karma or laurels, because the gear I bought for 3g the moment I hit 80 is better

I’ve done a few fractals, they’re fun but don’t seem to have any story or rhyme or reason to them

Done a few dungeons, they’re fun as well but I don’t think I want to grind them 75 times farming materials

My gear sucks for PvP, I don’t understand the point of WvW, and as far as I can tell there are no raids or anything to work towards

Should I just quit?

Rangers have lots of awesome legendaries, there’s always twilight, sunrise, eternity or bolt, though there are lots of people with those too. Personally also like the axe, warhorn, and dagger, so there’s plenty of options. If you’re looking for an awesome bow I recommend Aether. love it on my thief… There’s other cool bows too check the tp. There’s a lot of great skins out there that a lot of people like just as much or more than some legendaries.

Factions are fun if you like a nice challenge. And while frustrating at first once you build agony resistance it actually gets easier for a bit till the real high levels. And like most bosses a lot of it is just knowing “what” to dodge, so the repetition actually helps a lot here only needing to learn a few dungeons compared to say dungeon master and learning every path of every dungeon.

There’s no “raids” like wow, say 10man or the older now expired 25 or 50man ones. But some think that’s a good thing. Less hand holding and more individual skill counts more. Raids have grinds too. And one can do dungeons without the need to feel like they are grinding. Some people just do it once a day and only a few if that. I farmed cof 1-2, coe 1 (sometimes 2 and 3 too) some arah, ac, hotw1, and the dredge one everyday and got my legendary dagger (the incinerator) in almost no time. That may sound like a lot to some people and hardly any to others. Many of those could be done super fast though. And even if you just do say 1-3 paths of any of the above if you make a few gold one can still slowly save up its not that hard for a precursor. If you haven’t spent your laurels even better for t6 or to save for the next expansion.

WvW is nice for entry level pvp if you have a nice big zerg helping too. It has its advance tactics too but if its not your thing its fine. PvP is hard at first for new 80s but its actually a lot of fun and just like any game just requires some skill and practice.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

…

Behellagh.1468:

There is nothing wrong carving out a unique experience in the MMO space. They don’t all have to be virtually identical in terms of mechanics, only differing in story. It’s not for everybody.

And I don’t disagree with that. But that doesn’t mean Anet shouldn’t try to add more interesting stuff to their endgame and give players more stuff to do. I know you really want GW2 to be an open-ended sandbox game but that’s not what GW2 is. But GW2 isn’t a traditional themepark MMO (e.g. EverQuest and WoW) either. GW2 is an attempt at trying to bring both together in a new mix. In some aspects GW2 is really successful in bringing both worlds together and in other aspects it completely fails. The lack of any real tangible endgame content is one of GW2’s failings in my opinion.

There is nothing wrong with requesting Anet to take a look at games like WoW and see if they can bring some of the good stuff of that game over to GW2.

Here I disagree with you, vehemently. There is little to gain in feeding the traditional MMO player wishes who are coming from other MMOs. It will cause GW2 to lose it’s uniqueness in a world where planting and face tanking while another just heals while a third does the bulk of damage is considered the “right way” to do MMO combat with raids for BIS being to sole end game. 10 years of exposing players new to MMOs (after all why not try the biggest, the one that RLF may be already playing), WoW has created a generation of MMO players who know no other mechanic and are far too easy in rejecting anything different, or in our case ask repeatedly for similar mechanics to be inserted into a game that actively tried to break out of the WoW mold.

Edit: Found the article I wanted to link to, it’s on Engadget now.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/14/working-as-intended-endgame-is-the-worst-thing-that-ever-happen/

Alot of people hit the nail on the head, I’ll just reiterate it in a short form. Do what you want, do what makes you happy. Don’t seek for reason to validate your choice. Look not to be lead by an exterior entity, lead yourself.

here is another idea of new pre curses an recipes for new weapons. such as the l long bow or short bow? how about a great bear shooting out of the bow that would be interesting sight eh lol

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Teon.5168:

SyZ.7920:

I spent 2 hours in the Silverwastes

Pretty fun, I earned 5g, and a ton of crests, and then I just kind of thought ‘ok, now what’ and went back to my 100% completion goal

I don’t have anything to buy with the money, I have literally zero interest in either bow legendary and I didn’t pick this character to use a greatsword

My guild is nice enough, but with no > 5 man content it’s kind of like, why am I in a guild exactly? I can do a dungeon or fractal or content solo or in a pug, so other than having the same people to talk to, I don’t get it

The 100% completion will keep me busy, but other than that I don’t see a reason to log on

It’s kind of an analog really: 1 -> 80 is a single player JRPG or WRPG storyline, and then you beat the game. Now you just have a bunch of side quests and 100% achievements to get for your PSN or XBL score, but there’s really nothing beyond that and there’s no point to any of it because you don’t have anything to do with any gear you get

The big, open world 200 man pug dailies and events I can basically right click and tab out and look at stuff then tab in 3 minutes later and get a chest

There’s no DPS logs, I have no idea how my damage compares to others, and there doesn’t seem to be any reason to try to improve because, again, there’s no end game or goal in sight

You pretty much answered your own questions in the above post. It really doesn’t sound like this game is for you, especially with the ‘get to 80, beat the game’ attitude. That is not what this mmorpg is about, and you’ll obviously be seriously disappointed with the game if you approach it that way.

I suggest, as others have, that you look for a more linear mmorpg. Or maybe even just a single player fps game with online abilities to group with a few of your friends.

Best of luck finding a game that is better suited to your playstyle!

I think you misunderstood his post. He didn’t answer his own question. He wasn’t saying that he was looking for a game that’s “get to 80, beat the game”, he was saying that GW2 seems to be just “get to 80, beat the game” and that he doesn’t like that. Because that’s what GW2 really is. You get to 80, buy exotics gear, beat the Personal Story and Living Story and after that there really isn’t much meaningful stuff to do in GW2 unless grinding for skins or doing WvW/PvP is your thing.

I took it that he meant since he got to 80, he had beat the game, and there wasn’t anything else that interested him, after that.

And I still find lots of stuff to do with my 80s. But then again, I am not looking for any sort of ‘endgame’ when I play mmorpgs. I am a casual player that can’t play the game for hours every day and I am in no hurry to ‘beat’ this game. I do fps games if I want to actually ‘beat’ a game.

There is so much more to this game…….the social aspect with friends……my wife and I helping each other and adventuring together in the game……the silliness of pvp…….the fun of wvw…….becoming involved with the story…….just enjoying the fun of it all.

And I don’t think I have ever grinded for a skin. GASP!

SyZ.7920:

80 a week, no idea what to do

Well seeing you only finished your “intro” so to say, I guess you ignored the advice to check dungeons, wvw crafting and so on. It clearly didn’t make you wiser, The NPE (new player editorial) seems to have completely missed you or vice versa.

SyZ.7920:

People say farm for a legendary … so my two options as a ranger are a bow that shoots flowers or a different bow that shoots unicorns … really?

Well I have the flower shooting bow for my plantling, eh sylvari. And TBH, you could get 2 GS’s, dagger, axe, sword, warhorn, torch as well…. It is about the skin, not about stats, as they are equal to ascended gear. No gear grind. Oh and I forgot: a harpoon gun and spear…

SyZ.7920:

I’m really into collectibles, and it seems like there are just miniatures or skins. I haven’t seen one miniature in 2 months of playing this game and don’t even know where to get them,

Miniatures you buy on the trading post or get then from events, skins can be found anywhere from basic to extravagant. In achievements there is a collections list whcih can be added on by random drops, forgetting the collections, there is also dyes, gear, just plain money (200 gold will earn you a title) world completion and on and on.

SyZ.7920:

I’ve spent none of my karma or laurels, because the gear I bought for 3g the moment I hit 80 is better

Doubt so. depending on gear, you could buy very nice exotics for karma, or dungeon tokens. but you still need runes, decent weapon sigils and unlock your build. I do not think you have an ascended zerk armor, with full offensive and omni power agony infusions accompanied by 3 or 4 dungeon longbows. dunegon sowrds and duengon axes, with full sigils, full infused ascended rings and backpack and ascended accesoires
with either strength or scholar runes. If you do make another ascneded sinister with runes of the krait for your condi trapper/pet build, with corresponding weapons and jewelry.

SyZ.7920:

I’ve done a few fractals, they’re fun but don’t seem to have any story or rhyme or reason to them

Well fractals are shards of the past. and you can do them and they are glimpses into events… most of them quite a while back. there ar e quite afew and they’ll get more and more dificult starting with rank 10 upwards to 50. 1-9 is the training, the intro so to say.

SyZ.7920:

Done a few dungeons, they’re fun as well but I don’t think I want to grind them 75 times farming materials

75 times? I ran AC about 2500 times now (counting paths combined) if not more, it is a source of income. It has generated me about 4000 gold… not considering drops. (99% of that cash is gone and vanished into 2 legendaries, and my skins/dyes and vanity items)

SyZ.7920:

My gear sucks for PvP, I don’t understand the point of WvW, and as far as I can tell there are no raids or anything to work towards

Gear in PvP is free and can be changed to anything based on exotic stats, it’s only exotics and it will stay exotics, due to balancing. you will not have stats on you gear but just on 1 big jewel. in effect you only change sigils and runes and the jewel if you want to make another build

SyZ.7920:

Should I just quit?

If you cannot do anything with the information 40+ ppl tried to give you I think I’d advise you to take a breather, retry once more and if you still fail to see what could be fun, I gues you should pass to the next game… Like I said you just started.

Ill make this easy- if grinding is what you came for, its time to leave. (points to WoW).

People play this game for how fun it is, not because they’re forced to do a raid 50 times a week. No one is telling you there is something you should be doing. I guess choosing your own destiny is too hard for some people.

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

If all you want is raids and gear grind, yes, you should just quit. That’s because you’ve bought into the rhetoric of an industry that has brainwashed people to make everything about upgrading stats.

This is an experiential game. A lot of stuff to do is in the open world, in jumping puzzles, in minigames.

Stats in PvP have nothing to do with your PvE gear. You’re on an even footing as soon as you start, so you don’t have to gear up for PvP.

But if you must have a game dictate what you should do at 80, you’ve come to the wrong game. Different people have different end game goals, whether it’s achievement point hunting, or collecting skins, or collecting minis, or finishing the story.

If you just want a raid with gear, there are lots of choices out there for you. But if you can overcome that mindset, there’s a lot of choices here for you too.

This is so unbelievably condescending and a perfect example of why I left these forums a year ago.
Its one thing to (still) have GW2 on a pedestal and defend it, make suggestions of things to do or even suggest to go to another game. Its another to imply that simply because a person has different tastes, they have been brainwashed, must overcome their lesser from of thought to embrace GW2 and are pretty well just plain stupid for even thinking of wanting some set end goals. All said in the nicest way possible, of course.

Right games don’t brainwash people. It never happens. People don’t get used to an idea or think that’s the only way things can be. That never happens. WoW didn’t have dozens (hundreds?) of clones that all work pretty much the same way. That didn’t happen.

From the way the OP is phrasing responses in this thread, this game isn’t compatible with what he wants, which means the game may not be for him.

But we’ve seen more than one person, quite a few people, who came to this game and tried it and didn’t like it and then came back and tried it with a different mindset and loved it.

They didn’t like it because they didn’t know what to expect.

Where do you think those expectations came from?

Excellent posts, Pax & Invoker!

Let’s just re-examine where I’m coming from:

There are only FIVE races in this game, and I can’t name all 5. I don’t know how many classes there are, and the ones I do know, I don’t know what they do. (What the heck does an Engineer do?)

There’s no desire to learn about them, because there’s no reason to. All grouping via a dungeon ends up with somebody tanking while I sit in the back hitting 2 and 5. People say that WoW conditioned players to just heal, dps, or tank, how is this any different?

I was a Gladiator in that game. I had to know stats, how to enchant, how to gem, how to itemize, what skills every class did, how to properly time abilities – none of that is required here.

I had actual goals laid out – you log in, you do your dailies that actually lead to gear, and that helps you in a larger raid with a large number of people, with a clear goal and progression. Dailies in this game are: log in, do 3 things, get some karma and gold.

My guild has about 100 people, and nobody is ever on. And the only reason I’m in it was I had nobody to actually talk to at 80 because there is no grouping in this game so where exactly would I find people? A guild, in my mind, is a group of players who have the same goals in mind (endgame content) and want to work together. Here, it’s just people with a tag. There’s no 10, 15, 25, 40 man content, and everything I can do with my guild I can just do in LFG or solo. What’s the point?

For an mmo, there seems to be very little structure. It’s like, instead of having 10 or 25 maximum players for content, and having lots of it, there’s just random world bosses that any number of people can do, and then 5 man dungeons. So I’m supposed to go to a timer website, then every 15 minutes go to the next world boss with 300 people and get a chest of yellow items that I sell for 20-25s on the trading post and just gather more ascended materials I don’t need and can’t sell?

And that’s it? Just do that?

-Find a new guild. You complain that nobody in your guild is ever on. There’s quite an easy solution to finding a new one. Look on the guild recruiting boards of the forums, on gw2community.com or even just announce “LF large active guild” in LA or DR.

-Learn how to play Fractals. There is a lot more structure there. High level fractals are challenging- they require you to know your build inside-out. You can’t just “sit in the back and hit 2 and 5” there. Depending on your other team-mates, you might have to run a different class than your main. High level fractals require AR and Ascended Gear- something that is a relatively long-term goal. Low level fractals give you rewards that can progress you towards higher level fractals.

-There are a few things that are designed for more than 5 people. Guild Missions, Teq/Tri Wurm, WvW. Try them out. If you like some of them a lot, work towards buying a commander tag and learn how to command them.

-OR you could just disappear, considering you don’t seem to like the game as it currently stands. You could pop back in at HoT and ask what new features have been released and decide if you want to get the expansion or not.

Here’s my opinion on what you’re going through:
To me, it sounds like you have yet to explore the game thoroughly to find out the things you could do and could learn. But you simply don’t want to explore to find the new things- they’re not handed to you on a plate like you want them to be. If you don’t want to play it, find another game. Not everyone is going to like GW2.

just not your kind of game OP, goodbye

You are the bane of a healthy gaming industry…pls quit

Everything you listed exists in game, you are just too ignorant to see it.

OP, you seem like you’re trying really hard not to like it so save yourself the trouble and exit stage right. You’ll be happier for it. I mean, it sounds like you were really happy with the other MMO you were playing… so why not just go back to it?

SyZ.7920:

People say farm for a legendary … so my two options as a ranger are a bow that shoots flowers or a different bow that shoots unicorns … really?

Lol, Rangers are one of the prof with the biggest pool of weapons to choose from.

SyZ.7920:

Let’s just re-examine where I’m coming from:

There are only FIVE races in this game, and I can’t name all 5. I don’t know how many classes there are, and the ones I do know, I don’t know what they do. (What the heck does an Engineer do?)

Race: Human, Norn Sylvari, Charr and Asura.
Proffesions: warrior, guardian, elementalist, mesmer, necromancer, thief , ranger and engineer. I do not like engineerrs myself if you want to know make one and find out.

SyZ.7920:

There’s no desire to learn about them, because there’s no reason to. All grouping via a dungeon ends up with somebody tanking while I sit in the back hitting 2 and 5. People say that WoW conditioned players to just heal, dps, or tank, how is this any different?

Then you haven’t played a dungeon. There are no tanks, there are no healers. ther is no trinity, this is GW2, not “fill in rest of industry here” you do not need tanks, if you do not want to cointribute and just stand there doing rapidfire and thinking you are it… well…. you are not looking for a challenge.

SyZ.7920:

I was a Gladiator in that game. I had to know stats, how to enchant, how to gem, how to itemize, what skills every class did, how to properly time abilities – none of that is required here.

Who cares. I know all classes that’s why I can do paths in 10 minutes while basic groups take 25. if you time wrong on such a run you wipe. so you are not looking to be challenged

SyZ.7920:

I had actual goals laid out – you log in, you do your dailies that actually lead to gear, and that helps you in a larger raid with a large number of people, with a clear goal and progression. Dailies in this game are: log in, do 3 things, get some karma and gold.

Nobody cares for the dailies. the dailies are not important, you set your own goals. and the gold yes it’s nice. it buys skins.

SyZ.7920:

My guild has about 100 people, and nobody is ever on. And the only reason I’m in it was I had nobody to actually talk to at 80 because there is no grouping in this game so where exactly would I find people? A guild, in my mind, is a group of players who have the same goals in mind (endgame content) and want to work together. Here, it’s just people with a tag. There’s no 10, 15, 25, 40 man content, and everything I can do with my guild I can just do in LFG or solo. What’s the point?

I had a guild and it had 200 ppl so we warned everybody of impeding changes and kicked everybody except for the leader and 5 offi. and reivited all that wished to come back now we have 85 and they are all active. It’s a matter of “cleaning the house”
We retained the social ppl in our guild something with communiications and all. I pug all my dungeons/fractals and so on, all story I solo, I just like to share things sometimes, so I have guilds. not A guild, but guildS. 2 for WvW, 1 for PvE with friends I have known since gw1, and 1 free slot for tryouts or temprary joins, and my bank guild which is purely utility.

SyZ.7920:

For an mmo, there seems to be very little structure. It’s like, instead of having 10 or 25 maximum players for content, and having lots of it, there’s just random world bosses that any number of people can do, and then 5 man dungeons. So I’m supposed to go to a timer website, then every 15 minutes go to the next world boss with 300 people and get a chest of yellow items that I sell for 20-25s on the trading post and just gather more ascended materials I don’t need and can’t sell?

No you should find something you like and stop being sad it’s not WoW or just head back, It is an MMO it is a world you can roam around in . You do not need to do anything specific… so it doesn’t need structure. If you do not like World bosses do something else.

O and it is only the main box you’re playing not the 7th or 8th boxed add-on. so do not expect 10 years of content from a game. which was launched 2.5 yrs ago.

SyZ.7920:

And that’s it? Just do that?

You have misssed a whole thread of constructive responses and you show no signs of improvement whatsoever. If you think so pls throw in the towel.,

Invoker.5462:

Ill make this easy- if grinding is what you came for, its time to leave. (points to WoW).

People play this game for how fun it is, not because they’re forced to do a raid 50 times a week. No one is telling you there is something you should be doing. I guess choosing your own destiny is too hard for some people.

What a load of nonsense. Grinding in GW2 is much worse than in WoW if you want anything worthwhile in this game (legendaries, ascended weapons/armor, desirable skins).

In WoW you can “choose your own destiny” as well, if by “choose your own destiny” you mean doing trivial activities that gives you nothing worthwhile. WoW has its fair share of those kind of activities as well. But they ALSO have the hardcore raids, something that GW2 is severely lacking (aside from high-level Fractals, which really don’t even come close to WoW’s raids). You’re not forced to do those raids though, just like you’re not forced to do high-level Fractals in GW2. But if you want worthwhile rewards in WoW, only then are you gonna have to do those raids. But at least those raids are challenging and fun. In GW2, if you want a legendary weapon or ascended gear you’re gonna have to grind the same super easy trivial content over and over and over again ad nauseaum, or do the most boring and mundane farms. How is that better than doing a bunch of challenging raids over and over again?

problem seems you want everything instant, I bought my 1st pre 3 months into the game put it in my bank and crafted it 11 moths later, I had enough of almost everything… (except obsidian shards, which were karma mainly if not only att….)

People play zerker cause they want a challenge. I have tankier builds as well, I could run a nomad/cleric guardian trhough any dungeon and stay up…and it would be slow and effortless…when I play my full glass ele I have a somewhat different experience…. 2 ele, 1guard, 1 warior and 1 thief plays different. And fast.

This game let’s ou set your own goals, you will never need hardcore raids as you would only gain skins…. lvl 80 = endgame, but due to the dowscaling your level 80 being downscaledto lvl 18 in a lvl 16 or 17 area is able to perform “normally…”

SyZ.7920:

Let’s just re-examine where I’m coming from:

There are only FIVE races in this game, and I can’t name all 5. I don’t know how many classes there are, and the ones I do know, I don’t know what they do. (What the heck does an Engineer do?)

There’s no desire to learn about them, because there’s no reason to. All grouping via a dungeon ends up with somebody tanking while I sit in the back hitting 2 and 5. People say that WoW conditioned players to just heal, dps, or tank, how is this any different?

I was a Gladiator in that game. I had to know stats, how to enchant, how to gem, how to itemize, what skills every class did, how to properly time abilities – none of that is required here.

I had actual goals laid out – you log in, you do your dailies that actually lead to gear, and that helps you in a larger raid with a large number of people, with a clear goal and progression. Dailies in this game are: log in, do 3 things, get some karma and gold.

My guild has about 100 people, and nobody is ever on. And the only reason I’m in it was I had nobody to actually talk to at 80 because there is no grouping in this game so where exactly would I find people? A guild, in my mind, is a group of players who have the same goals in mind (endgame content) and want to work together. Here, it’s just people with a tag. There’s no 10, 15, 25, 40 man content, and everything I can do with my guild I can just do in LFG or solo. What’s the point?

For an mmo, there seems to be very little structure. It’s like, instead of having 10 or 25 maximum players for content, and having lots of it, there’s just random world bosses that any number of people can do, and then 5 man dungeons. So I’m supposed to go to a timer website, then every 15 minutes go to the next world boss with 300 people and get a chest of yellow items that I sell for 20-25s on the trading post and just gather more ascended materials I don’t need and can’t sell?

And that’s it? Just do that?

After all the constructive responses in this thread that you obviously chose to ignore…….quit wasting your time with this game. All of your responses have indicated that you’ll never enjoy this game.

PvP ftw. It’s super challenging and skill based. (Mostly) WvW is also super awesome, especially when you get into massive battles with siege weapons and counter attacks and stuff. The PvE side can get stale really easily, once you finish the map completion and have done all the dungeons a bunch of times it’s kinda meh. The only reason I really see to do it would be socially since it is an mmo after all. PvE has been known to be lacking in GW2 for a while, but the map completion and random events that crop up are really awesome, especially at the higher levels where they actually become challenging.

SyZ.7920:

Let’s just re-examine where I’m coming from:

There are only FIVE races in this game, and I can’t name all 5. I don’t know how many classes there are, and the ones I do know, I don’t know what they do. (What the heck does an Engineer do?)

There’s no desire to learn about them, because there’s no reason to. All grouping via a dungeon ends up with somebody tanking while I sit in the back hitting 2 and 5. People say that WoW conditioned players to just heal, dps, or tank, how is this any different?

I was a Gladiator in that game. I had to know stats, how to enchant, how to gem, how to itemize, what skills every class did, how to properly time abilities – none of that is required here.

I had actual goals laid out – you log in, you do your dailies that actually lead to gear, and that helps you in a larger raid with a large number of people, with a clear goal and progression. Dailies in this game are: log in, do 3 things, get some karma and gold.

My guild has about 100 people, and nobody is ever on. And the only reason I’m in it was I had nobody to actually talk to at 80 because there is no grouping in this game so where exactly would I find people? A guild, in my mind, is a group of players who have the same goals in mind (endgame content) and want to work together. Here, it’s just people with a tag. There’s no 10, 15, 25, 40 man content, and everything I can do with my guild I can just do in LFG or solo. What’s the point?

For an mmo, there seems to be very little structure. It’s like, instead of having 10 or 25 maximum players for content, and having lots of it, there’s just random world bosses that any number of people can do, and then 5 man dungeons. So I’m supposed to go to a timer website, then every 15 minutes go to the next world boss with 300 people and get a chest of yellow items that I sell for 20-25s on the trading post and just gather more ascended materials I don’t need and can’t sell?

And that’s it? Just do that?

Why is there no desire to learn classes? How do you not know what each class more or less does when there are descriptions right when you pick them at character select? If you don’t know what they do, why don’t you find out?

To me it seems like two things:
1. You are too lazy to actually learn about the game and anything that seems to complicated you ignore. I mean, you can do all that stuff in WoW but you can’t be bothered to remember race names or play/learn other classes?
2. You need to have something laid out for you. That is not this game. You do whatever you want. You need to figure out what you want. If you don’t know, then think for a bit. If you can’t figure it out then the game isn’t for you.

SyZ.7920:

Let’s just re-examine where I’m coming from:

There are only FIVE races in this game, and I can’t name all 5. I don’t know how many classes there are, and the ones I do know, I don’t know what they do. (What the heck does an Engineer do?)

There’s no desire to learn about them, because there’s no reason to. All grouping via a dungeon ends up with somebody tanking while I sit in the back hitting 2 and 5. People say that WoW conditioned players to just heal, dps, or tank, how is this any different?

I was a Gladiator in that game. I had to know stats, how to enchant, how to gem, how to itemize, what skills every class did, how to properly time abilities – none of that is required here.

I had actual goals laid out – you log in, you do your dailies that actually lead to gear, and that helps you in a larger raid with a large number of people, with a clear goal and progression. Dailies in this game are: log in, do 3 things, get some karma and gold.

My guild has about 100 people, and nobody is ever on. And the only reason I’m in it was I had nobody to actually talk to at 80 because there is no grouping in this game so where exactly would I find people? A guild, in my mind, is a group of players who have the same goals in mind (endgame content) and want to work together. Here, it’s just people with a tag. There’s no 10, 15, 25, 40 man content, and everything I can do with my guild I can just do in LFG or solo. What’s the point?

For an mmo, there seems to be very little structure. It’s like, instead of having 10 or 25 maximum players for content, and having lots of it, there’s just random world bosses that any number of people can do, and then 5 man dungeons. So I’m supposed to go to a timer website, then every 15 minutes go to the next world boss with 300 people and get a chest of yellow items that I sell for 20-25s on the trading post and just gather more ascended materials I don’t need and can’t sell?

And that’s it? Just do that?

You selected the wrong game. This game is aimed at the casual player. You seem very terse for a casual player. You actually lost the game by leveling to 80 in a week. IMHO, you are not looking for a game like this.

SyZ.7920:

Let’s just re-examine where I’m coming from:

1. There are only FIVE races in this game, and I can’t name all 5.

2. I don’t know how many classes there are, and the ones I do know, I don’t know what they do. (What the heck does an Engineer do?)

There’s no desire to learn about them, because there’s no reason to. All grouping via a dungeon ends up with somebody tanking while I sit in the back hitting 2 and 5. People say that WoW conditioned players to just heal, dps, or tank, how is this any different?

3. I was a Gladiator in that game. I had to know stats, how to enchant, how to gem, how to itemize, what skills every class did, how to properly time abilities – none of that is required here.

4. I had actual goals laid out – you log in, you do your dailies that actually lead to gear, and that helps you in a larger raid with a large number of people, with a clear goal and progression. Dailies in this game are: log in, do 3 things, get some karma and gold.

5. My guild has about 100 people, and nobody is ever on. And the only reason I’m in it was I had nobody to actually talk to at 80 because there is no grouping in this game so where exactly would I find people? A guild, in my mind, is a group of players who have the same goals in mind (endgame content) and want to work together. Here, it’s just people with a tag. There’s no 10, 15, 25, 40 man content, and everything I can do with my guild I can just do in LFG or solo. What’s the point?

6. For an mmo, there seems to be very little structure. It’s like, instead of having 10 or 25 maximum players for content, and having lots of it, there’s just random world bosses that any number of people can do, and then 5 man dungeons. So I’m supposed to go to a timer website, then every 15 minutes go to the next world boss with 300 people and get a chest of yellow items that I sell for 20-25s on the trading post and just gather more ascended materials I don’t need and can’t sell?

7. And that’s it? Just do that?

1. Races are cosmetic so you don’t even need to know their names. I’m sure even you would know that you have: Plant, Molemidget, Kittycow, Generic, and Generic XL. Given time if you like the game you’ll probably learn the names. In wow I still don’t know the names of the wolves even though I played them when I played alliance to prank gank my mates.

2. In wow I played all the classes to try them out before choosing one. It was very time consuming. In gw2 I played all the classes in the mists to get a feel for the one I liked, it took considerably less time. If you are absolutely incapable of experimenting, looking at the skills and traits to figure out what a class can do, you can youtube it.

If you are “sitting in the back” in a dungeon you are being a dead weight and are getting carried. You have 17 skills at your disposable in combat as a ranger and can switch them between combat. You have buff skills to help your allies (which you can’t reach if you are sitting in the back). The person “tanking” the boss isn’t tanking it, he is soloing it with the dead weights only making the fight go quicker. The fact you haven’t figured out that you could be doing so much more to contribute to a fight is what people are talking about with the trinity conditioning.

3. Mindless button mashers get destroyed in both games. If you are spamming your interrupt whenever it is up, you are doing something wrong. If you are using your burst without the proper build up, you are doing something wrong. If you are using your heal randomly, you are doing something wrong. If you are putting down a water field when your leap/blast finishers are on cooldown, you are doing something wrong. If you are dodging auto attacks instead of real threats, you are doing something wrong.

If you are doing these kind of things wrong, then anyone who is doing these things right will steamroll you. You don’t even know how to access pvp builds, so I doubt you spent enough time in PvP to actually meet someone with good timing. Join the unranked queue once and die a few times if you need proof. [PvPers will hate me for even suggesting this]

4. Different progression system. If you like it better, that is ok. I hear Rift is free. The progression in this game is either personal skill or collecting things (achieves, skins, etc). This isn’t as common, if you don’t like it than you probably shouldn’t have bought this game as this was a major selling point.

5. WoW guilds only served to pay my subscription because I could tank. If you don’t like your current guild experience, get a new guild. Or just fill out your guild slots (you can join multiple guilds) so if one is slow at certain times you can play with another. As said before, guilds are more social than gameplay at this time (perhaps the expansion will change that, but I wouldn’t hold my breathe)

6. Ah good, I can agree with something. However the timers and such were changes to cater to people like you who needed more structure, ruining it for many others. I too would like to see more instanced content and challenge. But…

7. There are so many other options (see thread). Instead of being told how to play (the whole NPE caters to people who need to be told how to play while making things meh for those who don’t) go play and if its not fun try something different, perhaps a different game.

There are tons of issues with GW2, but for some of us it is as close as we can get to what we want in a game. If its not your style, ok. But coming at the game with the attitude that you don’t like it (come on, you didn’t even try half of it) then complaining on the forums is pretty trollish.

(PS going with the wow example, what you are doing is somewhat similar to taking a healer spec in the dps slot and wondering why it ineffective and you never get to use all your fancy heals when the real healer is doing his job)

Behellagh.1468:

There is little to gain in feeding the traditional MMO player wishes who are coming from other MMOs.

But Guild Wars 2 is already a themepark MMO like WoW with some sandbox elements like Ultima Online.

Between GW1 and GW2 it’s obvious that Anet took a lot of inspiration from WoW already. GW2 is not as unique as you think it is, it’s just another themepark MMO but without a proper trinity and without a real endgame. GW2 is not the sandbox MMO that you want it to be. It has elements from a sandbox MMO, yes, but it also took just as many elements from the themepark MMO genre.

Behellagh.1468:

It will cause GW2 to lose it’s uniqueness in a world where planting and face tanking while another just heals while a third does the bulk of damage is considered the “right way” to do MMO combat with raids for BIS being to sole end game.

What uniqueness? Not having a trinity? You’re right, GW2 doesn’t have a tank, healer and DPSer, instead GW2 has a DPSer, DPSer and a DPSer. It’s even more monotone and straight-forward than the holy trinity you complain about. At leats WoW’s raids are properly balanced and can’t be rushed to the end in mere 10 minutes. The fact that speedrunning dungeons in full DPS gear is the meta in GW2 already shows how trivial and unbalanced the PvE content of GW2 is. How is that better than well-designed and well-balanced raids?

Behellagh.1468:

10 years of exposing players new to MMOs (after all why not try the biggest, the one that RLF may be already playing), WoW has created a generation of MMO players who know no other mechanic and are far too easy in rejecting anything different, or in our case ask repeatedly for similar mechanics to be inserted into a game that actively tried to break out of the WoW mold.

GW2 tried to break the WoW mold and failed at it. That’s why people are asking for the holy trinity or similar mechanics to be inserted in GW2, because that mechanic actually worked!

Behellagh.1468:

Edit: Found the article I wanted to link to, it’s on Engadget now.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/14/working-as-intended-endgame-is-the-worst-thing-that-ever-happen/

You and the article seem to think endgame is a bad thing. I disagree. Endgame gives people a purpose after they reach the level cap and finished their personal story. Else you’ll have nothing to do in a themepark MMO like WoW or GW2.

You and the article compare modern MMOs such as EverQuest and later games to Ultima Online. And there lies the problem. UO is a completely different game. It was 100% a sandbox game. UO didn’t even have leveling or content gating.

It seems you want GW2 to be like UO, but it isn’t and will never be. GW2 isn’t a sandbox MMO, it’s a themepark MMO with some sandbox elements. A themepark MMO needs an endgame to stay fun and relevant. GW2, which is a themepark MMO, doesn’t really have much of an endgame and that’s why players feel lost and bored once they reach lvl 80 and finished the personal story and explored every nook and cranny of the world. Because that that point there is no way to progress your character in any meaningful way. A lot of people will then start to work on their first legendary weapon, which is a fun goal to work towards too for many players. Sadly, the road to that goal is tedious, repetitive, trivial and boring. There are no challenging raids in this game so instead you’re doing the same trivial world bosses over and over, farm the same Silverwastes map over and over, do the same trivial dungeons over and over or do high-level Fractals (the only challenging PvE content in GW2).

With Fractals being the only challenging PvE endgame content in GW2, I can safely say that GW2’s endgame is severely lacking and seriously needs more stuff added to it, while at the same time revamping the endgame content we already have.

SyZ.7920:

Let’s just re-examine where I’m coming from:

There are only FIVE races in this game, and I can’t name all 5. I don’t know how many classes there are, and the ones I do know, I don’t know what they do. (What the heck does an Engineer do?)

There’s no desire to learn about them, because there’s no reason to. All grouping via a dungeon ends up with somebody tanking while I sit in the back hitting 2 and 5. People say that WoW conditioned players to just heal, dps, or tank, how is this any different?

I was a Gladiator in that game. I had to know stats, how to enchant, how to gem, how to itemize, what skills every class did, how to properly time abilities – none of that is required here.

I had actual goals laid out – you log in, you do your dailies that actually lead to gear, and that helps you in a larger raid with a large number of people, with a clear goal and progression. Dailies in this game are: log in, do 3 things, get some karma and gold.

My guild has about 100 people, and nobody is ever on. And the only reason I’m in it was I had nobody to actually talk to at 80 because there is no grouping in this game so where exactly would I find people? A guild, in my mind, is a group of players who have the same goals in mind (endgame content) and want to work together. Here, it’s just people with a tag. There’s no 10, 15, 25, 40 man content, and everything I can do with my guild I can just do in LFG or solo. What’s the point?

For an mmo, there seems to be very little structure. It’s like, instead of having 10 or 25 maximum players for content, and having lots of it, there’s just random world bosses that any number of people can do, and then 5 man dungeons. So I’m supposed to go to a timer website, then every 15 minutes go to the next world boss with 300 people and get a chest of yellow items that I sell for 20-25s on the trading post and just gather more ascended materials I don’t need and can’t sell?

And that’s it? Just do that?

You’re limiting yourself here, it’s not the game’s fault. If you think all a ranger has is a longbow, you are sadly mistaken. Sword is one of my favorite weapons in the game (and it’s great across all 5 professions that use it) so that’s the reason I chose to make bolt (legendary sword). You should really try different classes out and expand your knowledge base.

You can start any profession and go straight to spvp. There are no levels (everyone set to 80) and everyone has the same access to gear (both amulets and runes/sigils). You can create characters and go try each of them out and maybe you’ll find something you find fun. Try using the “condi survival” build for ranger in my signature in pvp, it’s really strong and a lot of fun.

Again, don’t limit yourself.

Lucos, you are confusing trinity with good design.

You don’t need a trinity to have a good fight design, it just gives you a set of rules so you can force situations, calling for less creative thinking on the part of the designer in engaging players to perform different tasks. I would argue that forcing players into set roles instead of making a situation the forces the players to think for themselves and define roles is not good design either, just an easier one to work with. When it is easier to work with, you can get a good basis faster.

Easier to design with does not make it better designed by default, it just makes it easier to achieve a base level of difficulty.

The gw2 “raids” have many flaws but lack of the trinity is not one of them. People have been asking for trinity before this game came out, it’s not a sudden group of people who saw the light, it is all the people who are used to a trinity wanting it without switching games. The dungeons are being speedrun in full dps armor because it has been run hundreds of times before and everyone knows or can look up how to do it.
The problem is not that there is no trinity, it is that the design needs to be better.

Trinity design can fail too against the test of time. In WoW I could solo the dungeons until level 60 with an underleveled tankadin. Trinity didn’t do much anymore in the outdated content. Even once you got to the point you were forced into it, trinity isn’t amazing fun either. Tank and spank may have 3 flavors, but it doesn’t stop it from being tedious. There is a shortage of healers because of how boring it is for many people. Heal flavor is wack-a-moling health bars, tank flavor is using tank skill rotation, dps flavor is using dps rotation. Don’t think, don’t react, learn your rotation. You know your rotation? Good, let’s add moving out of harm’s way while doing rotation, or memorizing patrol routes.

My fondest memory of WoW was when my tankadin accidentally got mind controlled for what felt like minutes, which is good because I was laughing so hard I couldn’t play while I watched my character wipe my entire team. After I regained control of my character, I preceeded to solo the boss thingy that did it, then rez everyone. Hilarious, but questionable design if what was meant to be a total party wipe just meant that the tank could yawn and solo it if it was the right class.

Snow.2048:

Lucos, you are confusing trinity with good design.

No I’m not. The trinity is a good design that has proven to work well in many MMOs. Anet tried to step outside of the trinity design and I can nothing but praise Anet for doing that, but sadly they failed with their experiment and now we’re stuck with a zergfest in open-world PvE/WvW and a zerker-fest in instanced dungeons. People either play full Berserker in dungeons or they’re a burden to the team. How is that good design?

Snow.2048:

You don’t need a trinity to have a good fight design.

It doesn’t matter what you think is good design, the majority of gamers think the trinity is a good design and it works well in both offline RPGs and online MMORPGs, therefor it’s factually a good design.

Basically it comes down to not trying to fix something that isn’t broken. Anet could have come up with a ton of different ways to encourage build variety and build flexibility while keeping the trinity. A good example would be Wildstar Online, where every class can take on every role of the trinity (a Warrior in Wildstar can either be specced as a tank, or as a DPSer, or as a healer, just like every other class in Wildstar). You still need a tank, a healer and a DPSer in Wildstar’s raids, but you’re no longer stuck with certain classes filling certain roles.

There are things to be said about Wildstar, but one thing everyone who played the game agrees on: the raids are well-designed and the way the trinity is implemented in that game is new, refreshing and works well.

What Anet did wrong is that they got rid of the trinity without thinking through the consequences of getting rid of the trinity. They took away the trinity but didn’t replace it with another system. The only thing they kept in mind is that they wanted the content in GW2 to be beatable by every type of build. Because of that we’re now stuck with the zerker meta. If can choose between this zerker meta we have now or the good old holy trinity, I’d choose the trinity over this zerker mess every time every day of the week.

Snow.2048:

Easier to design with does not make it better designed by default, it just makes it easier to achieve a base level of difficulty.

Which makes it automatically better. Because right now with the system we have in GW2 (or lack of a system tbh) everything must be designed around the idea that every type of build and every type of group composition should be able to beat the content, which automatically always makes an all-DPS group the best choice (because more DPS = killing the mobs faster = beating the content faster and more easily).

Snow.2048:

The gw2 “raids” have many flaws but lack of the trinity is not one of them.

What raids? We don’t even have raids, lol.

Snow.2048:

The dungeons are being speedrun in full dps armor because it has been run hundreds of times before and everyone knows or can look up how to do it.
The problem is not that there is no trinity, it is that the design needs to be better.

That is an automatic result when you design content with the premise that everything should be beatable with every type of build and every type of group composition. To avoid the zerker meta, we need some sort of trinity, there is no way around it.

Snow.2048:

Trinity design can fail too against the test of time. In WoW I could solo the dungeons until level 60 with an underleveled tankadin. Trinity didn’t do much anymore in the outdated content. Even once you got to the point you were forced into it, trinity isn’t amazing fun either. Tank and spank may have 3 flavors, but it doesn’t stop it from being tedious. There is a shortage of healers because of how boring it is for many people. Heal flavor is wack-a-moling health bars, tank flavor is using tank skill rotation, dps flavor is using dps rotation. Don’t think, don’t react, learn your rotation. You know your rotation? Good, let’s add moving out of harm’s way while doing rotation, or memorizing patrol routes.

Sure, if you describe it like that you can make everything sound boring. At least in WoW you can choose if you want to be a tank, DPSer or healer. In GW2 it’s just DPS DPS DPS while the guardian provides the only protection you need and the elementalists or warrior provides you with boons for even more DPS. It’s all about the DPS in GW2.

So basically GW2 suffers from the same issues you just mentioned (being able to solo content, content being too easy once you know how the content works, etc.) while being more monotone (DPS or GTFO) and having even more issues because of the way the GW2 content is designed.

Outdated content in WoW might not survive the test of time, but that doesn’t have anything to do with the trinity at all.

SyZ.7920:

Let’s just re-examine where I’m coming from:

There are only FIVE races in this game, and I can’t name all 5. I don’t know how many classes there are, and the ones I do know, I don’t know what they do. (What the heck does an Engineer do?)

At character selection it tells you what each race is called. It also tells you which classes you can pick from, I guess you missed the giant icons you can click on to pick a class? You must also have missed the text that appears when clicking one of the icons that tells you what each class does.

There’s no desire to learn about them, because there’s no reason to. All grouping via a dungeon ends up with somebody tanking while I sit in the back hitting 2 and 5. People say that WoW conditioned players to just heal, dps, or tank, how is this any different?

Uhm you must be confusing this with WoW? Nobody is a tank so I have no idea what you’re talking about?

Dailies in this game are: log in, do 3 things, get some karma and gold.

Yes. So you can do things that are actually fun after finishing said dailies.

My guild has about 100 people, and nobody is ever on. And the only reason I’m in it was I had nobody to actually talk to at 80 because there is no grouping in this game so where exactly would I find people? A guild, in my mind, is a group of players who have the same goals in mind (endgame content) and want to work together. Here, it’s just people with a tag. There’s no 10, 15, 25, 40 man content, and everything I can do with my guild I can just do in LFG or solo. What’s the point?

Guild missions for ascended stuff and other stuff and creating a community to play with.

For an mmo, there seems to be very little structure. It’s like, instead of having 10 or 25 maximum players for content, and having lots of it, there’s just random world bosses that any number of people can do, and then 5 man dungeons. So I’m supposed to go to a timer website, then every 15 minutes go to the next world boss with 300 people and get a chest of yellow items that I sell for 20-25s on the trading post and just gather more ascended materials I don’t need and can’t sell?

No. If you don’t like world bosses, don’t do them. Do something you actually enjoy like WvW, sPvP, dungeons, Fractals, making alts, finishing achievements, collections, getting minis and skins, doing guild missions, finishing world completion, get ascended gear, get a legendary…

No any class that can heal are forced to so miss my enhancement shaman