Guild Wars 2

I came from FFXI where getting maximum level, which was 75, though achievable by anyone, it felt like a solid accomplishment. There were a lot of struggles along the way, for example, the limit break quests, where if we didn’t complete, we couldn’t level up beyond that level, even though we continue racking up exp points.

Another obstacle is the Kazham key quest, in order to get to levelling areas level 30+, everyone needs to do this, or else they don’t get access to the zone. You need to get this key, which are located at 3 dungeons strewn across the land, and parties are required.

Another obstacle is the Airship pass, and Chocobo pass, in order to take the main transportation systems. You have to nurture the chocobo and feed it Gyashl green over a time period, or you fail.

Another obstacle is the Artifact armor quests at level 60, where it’s almost mandatory for everyone to excel at parties at level 60+, and to prepare for the final limit break quest at 70. If you don’t complete the limit break at 70, you will never get pass that level.

Another obstacle: that parties were requirements, so we built up friends, and we seek out the same people if they did well in parties. So we rack up reputation of each other, and we knew the names of the best paladins, and the best white mages to seek.

I’m not saying GW2 should be like other games. But in here, getting to 80 doesn’t feel like anything at all, and there were no struggles at all. Does anyone feel this way? I feel like a faceless unknown, and no one knows that I hit 80, and also, mostly because it wasn’t that difficult to get it.

I think games these days should make it harder to get to the top level. Not just by increasing the level caps, but by introducing interesting difficult obstacles along the way, that will make it more about the journey than the destination.

Yes, it’s a different, very moderate approach to progressing your character. There’s a lot lot more than there was in the first Guild Wars. So it’s at least something, and you don’t see people with a full set of 8 80s (yet).

But there’s no gating at all, except for leveling. No keys, no “hell levels,” no exponential increase in xp requirements. In fact, in my experience it speeds up as you get closer to 80.

In other games I played, it was less of a problem that there wasn’t much end-game, cuz it took forever to get to max. (e.g. my first NCSoft game, Lineage 2, would take ~2500-3000 hours of /played to get to max, after which there was sub-class and nobless and …)

Yeah, leveling is easy. And I like it this way.

It means I can spend little time on a game and still not lag behind the power-gamers.

I’m not a part of const-party, have a low online time and don’t log in every day, yet I still can go to any dungeon I want, have access to the best items and I am free to to do whatever I want in my spare time without the feeling that I’m left behind by other players who progress upwards through content.

It is a wonderful game system, really.

In many other games, the “game” is to level up, get better equipment, kill bigger monsters. A bit of RNG to spice things up, repeat until max level/equipment/boss, wait for expansion. That was the game model and it works well. But, it doesn’t mean all games need to be that way. To me, GW2 is about lore, environment, and working with other players to accomplish challenging objectives. I like both style of games.

It’s not meant to be, the game you play at level 1 is the game you play at level 80. If you want a game with more of a grind, this may not be the right one for you.

You can however still find stuff to grind on if that floats your very small boat, like a brick wall at an elementary school.

In GW leveling was not important, what was important was your intelligence and skill. You had a huge pool of skills to chose from and make great builds and work those builds as teams. While this was very challenging and fun, it didnt help selling the game, since most MMO players are not very smart (you wouldnt believe the “builds” people made in GW) and prefer to have more straightforward paths. But, even thought they want straightforward games, they also like the feeling of “achieving” things.

GW2 has a different approach than GW. It was dumbed down so any casual MMO player can be able to complete almost anything. So, the “max level” is still easy and now it is a little important because you need max level to have max equip. But the game is designed for making most casual MMO players happy. Thats why they have hugely reduced the skill pool and customization and thats why they didnt add any real challenge in the game other then grinding.

So the “achievement” you will feel in this game is getting your legendary weapons after a lot of grinding and/or spending cash in cashstore (and world completion, which is repetitive due to the lack of content but also fun).

I got to level 80 when I was crafting something and I was like “Oh, cool level 80” and then I continued crafting. Level maxing isn’t a big deal to me when you can enjoy much of the content without even getting to 80. It would have been nice if one of the legendary weapon components was a token you get by reaching level 80 or something though

That’s because you only got your first one.
1/8 completed.

@Hycinthus.

A completely different leveling experience and yet the end game is almost exactly the same. Weapons and armor that take forever to acquire and are hardly worth the time. Played FFXI myself and honestly the most fun I had in that game was leveling because they actually tried to get people to PLAY TOGETHER in a online game, Insanity I know right. I’ve already got 80 deleted my characters and uninstalled the game there’s no point in enduring the end game in GW2, its not fun.

Considering that you can get to level 80 from level 1 in 4-6 hours if you willing to spend the coin, I doubt hitting max level was ever considered as an achievement

Thanks for making sure I’ll never waste the bandwidth on downloading a FFIV trial.

The game begins at max lvl, just like a good GW game should.

mulch.2586:

Yes, it’s a different, very moderate approach to progressing your character. There’s a lot lot more than there was in the first Guild Wars. So it’s at least something, and you don’t see people with a full set of 8 80s (yet).

But there’s no gating at all, except for leveling. No keys, no “hell levels,” no exponential increase in xp requirements. In fact, in my experience it speeds up as you get closer to 80.

In other games I played, it was less of a problem that there wasn’t much end-game, cuz it took forever to get to max. (e.g. my first NCSoft game, Lineage 2, would take ~2500-3000 hours of /played to get to max, after which there was sub-class and nobless and …)

There’s a high skill ceiling to this game, and if you are very skilled you can exploit the lvling very easily I guess. In a past game like Everquest, it was also gated in a sense because the mobs took a long time to kill regardless of skill. In GW2, it’s a great thing it has such a high skill ceiling and the ability to reward vastly different levels of skill. However, they might have to find ways to fix this as well because like you said it can be exploited too easily due to the lack of gating.

Gating is something artificial however, and it’s ideal to be able to reward players with above-average skill. With new ideas come new obstacles to tackle.

However, I still believe ideals are the way to develop a game, such as the pure horizontal progression ideal that some players have talked about here in the forums.

I am happy with the way it is. Stop trying to make this game a grind fest.

FFXI was fun until they shifted their efforts into FFXIV. Then they gave in to everyone’s demands of FFXI being difficult. Now any pride you took from small things such as, beating OU or the CoP storyline in general can be done by a single person. And now you can become max level by just standing in one place. You only ever have to move twice. One to the Bastok mines area to get to level 30 and then to Abyssea for the rest of the way.

MMOs are changing for the worst unfortunately. Its not really the developers fault either. People’s attention spans are not what they used to be. No one wants to be part of that Fafnir/Nidhogg window anymore. No one wants to spend hours everyday to get a single tank a pair of crimson cruisers so they can kite better. I haven’t played WoW personally, so I can’t speak on that but in the FFXI world – a lot of people have the patient of saints to devote so much time going to a place called Sky for hours/days/weeks for the chance to lot on an item that you might not get.

Now in GW2, I don’t think this game was designed for hardcore MMOers to migrate their lives to. The fact that the game is not pay to play is pretty much proof enough. This game seems to be a great gateway for people who never touched an MMO. I play here with friends who never had interest in mmos and thought “oh one of those evercrack type games? nah im good” It has been a great game to my friends and I and it has only just started.

I understand the feeling of the OP. In this game they added a lot of levels. There’s a reason why a lot of MMOs start with level caps like 50. It’s a long road. I read all about the leveling curve but the truth is that leveling to 80 in this game took me just as long as leveling to 50 in SWTOR or Aion. That may be in part because of how I play but the reality is there.

And so it’s a long road to 80 and the problem is that each zone is done too quickly for completion and therefore there are lots of zones, splintering the player base. So you are leveling along and at around level 50 it gets long. Still 30 levels to go, the story line turns boring and once you get to 80 it feels like you really haven’t done much except running from here to there and back again. And if you do manage to get into Arah for that final confrontation, well, let’s just say it’s a disappointment. Nothing epic about it. It’s a long boring dungeon with a lame boss fight at the end.

The story line is in the background. You forget half the time what the main story line was while hunting for events to level to the next story line quest….whatever it was again.

So either from a point of view of completing the story or simply turning level 80 as max level…..I agree it doesn’t feel like you accomplished anything, because in fact you didn’t.

And this is also because the biggest challenges in the game aren’t difficulty but annoyance (Orr anyone?).

Bottom line, the game isn’t story driven and there are too many levels, making it feel longer than it should. And there’s little real challenge and no real road markers on the way. At least in GW1 you had story missions that weren’t all easy, especially in the beginning that were marked as completed, and bonus objectives. You could see yourself advancing over the map, wondering where it would bring you.

I do miss that feeling. And then vertical progression is added in a way that is just silly. Do it right if you do have to bring it in and also horizontal progression is totally lacking. So you’re level 80……so what?

I personally feel that leveling and vertical progression are a waste. They turn great and potentially reusable content into obsolete data, just because you can’t get the loot you need. I think this should change, but in order to do so, you would have to make the content as challenging and as much work to get loot as other areas; at that point levels would as they are currently, become almost meaningless.

MajesticMofo.4203:

MMOs are changing for the worst unfortunately.

I wouldn’t say they are changing for the worst; more like they are in their awkward adolescent years. They’ve got these weird new ideas and stuff and don’t quite know what to do or how to handle them yet.

Yes, it’s possible that they turn out to be failures later in life, but they could also grow up to be great. It’s all in the paren… I mean deving.

I never played FF, or Everquest. While your experience of GW2 may have lacked an epic feel that you got in FF, for me it lacked things like getting to 33/50 in Tabula Rasa and being unable to progress because they decided medics should not be able to kill battle mechs, or my choices to progress in AoC being to either sit in Aztlan’s Approach for hours looking for groups that rarely materialized, or running the same villa missions in Tarantia over and over and over… Compared to those leveling experiences, GW2’s seems fluid, dynamic, fun, and consisting of positive rather than negative memories.

That said, no game is going to float everyone’s boat.

I like it the way it is- it is fun leveling and alt friendly and sure there are no bells and whistles when you hit 80 and no-one pats you on the back.
I felt more of an achievement when I maxed my first craft.
Rest assured that a new 80 is not the same as having an 80 for a while. When you hit lvl cap is the time to really play with your build, learn to be skilled with your choices etc.

As for ridiculous requirements just so you can progress leveling- urrrgghhh.

80 should not feel like an achievement since its not meant to be.

Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485:

80 should not feel like an achievement since its not meant to be.

Pseudo wisdom on Monday morning. Thanks for that completely meaningless comment. But then it probably wasn’t meant to have any meaning.

The only achievement is to get a legendary skin, after you easily reach 80. If you do not care about the skin and use any other exotic weapon with the same stats then you do not have anything to achieve at all. It is just playing for the sake of it.

Gehenna.3625:

Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485:

80 should not feel like an achievement since its not meant to be.

Pseudo wisdom on Monday morning. Thanks for that completely meaningless comment. But then it probably wasn’t meant to have any meaning.

Someone is snippy this morning. That is not pseudo wisdom, that is just how it is. Don’t like it? I could care less. This is not a game about getting to the highest level.

Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485:

Gehenna.3625:

Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485:

80 should not feel like an achievement since its not meant to be.

Pseudo wisdom on Monday morning. Thanks for that completely meaningless comment. But then it probably wasn’t meant to have any meaning.

Someone is snippy this morning. That is not pseudo wisdom, that is just how it is. Don’t like it? I could care less. This is not a game about getting to the highest level.

You say it isn’t meant to be…based on what? You gave no reason or foundation for your statement. In fact if reaching max level isn’t a big deal then why did they go from 20 (GW1) to 80 levels in GW2?

Gehenna.3625:

Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485:

Gehenna.3625:

Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485:

80 should not feel like an achievement since its not meant to be.

Pseudo wisdom on Monday morning. Thanks for that completely meaningless comment. But then it probably wasn’t meant to have any meaning.

Someone is snippy this morning. That is not pseudo wisdom, that is just how it is. Don’t like it? I could care less. This is not a game about getting to the highest level.

You say it isn’t meant to be…based on what? You gave no reason or foundation for your statement. In fact if reaching max level isn’t a big deal then why did they go from 20 (GW1) to 80 levels in GW2?

Same reason attacks now do 100 times the number they did before.

Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485:

Gehenna.3625:

Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485:

Gehenna.3625:

Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485:

80 should not feel like an achievement since its not meant to be.

Pseudo wisdom on Monday morning. Thanks for that completely meaningless comment. But then it probably wasn’t meant to have any meaning.

Someone is snippy this morning. That is not pseudo wisdom, that is just how it is. Don’t like it? I could care less. This is not a game about getting to the highest level.

You say it isn’t meant to be…based on what? You gave no reason or foundation for your statement. In fact if reaching max level isn’t a big deal then why did they go from 20 (GW1) to 80 levels in GW2?

Same reason attacks now do 100 times the number they did before.

Nope. In times when Anet still communicated regularly with the community, they got as feedback that the leveling experience was too short. They said then they would change that in GW2. I think they went overboard with it.

The damage and HP are a lot more because it feels more epic to a lot of people. Level 80 doesn’t feel epic because it’s a higher number….in fact come to think of it, that’s what this thread is about.

Yes, it’s not an achievement. You have just finished the intro part, now get ready for the real game.

If I remember right they weren’t even going to implement levels initially because they didn’t want the game to be about levels but exploration. Then changed their mind because some people need that kind of progression to enjoy the experience of exploration.

It also meant that a lot of people rushed to 80 because that’s what people are trained to do in MMO’s. Just relax, take your time like I kept telling them they should. That said you can still go anywhere you like at lvl 80 and explore which is the whole point.

If you aren’t into pvp, exploration, collecting cosmetic items or dungeons but rather have focus on levels and grind then this is the wrong game. Sure there’s some optional grind there but that’s the thing it’s optional. You make your own fun in this game using what is there, you aren’t told that you ‘need this or that’.

Fay.2735:

If you aren’t into pvp, exploration, collecting cosmetic items or dungeons but rather have focus on levels and grind then this is the wrong game. Sure there’s some optional grind there but that’s the thing it’s optional. You make your own fun in this game using what is there, you aren’t told that you ‘need this or that’.

The PvP and exploration are so basic though. There is next to no customization for the classes and exploring the world isn’t even exploring. It’s a checklist on a map. It’s not adventurous, it’s like going to a theme park.

MrThebigcheese.2014:

The PvP and exploration are so basic though. There is next to no customization for the classes and exploring the world is about as exciting as exploring a theme park. It’s not exploring, it’s a checklist on a map.

I disagree I think the world is beautiful and I still try to run everywhere I go and play on alts to experience it some more. Sure you collect vistas and hearts but I spend a lot of time just looking around admiring how beautiful the game is and it’s simply a piece of art in terms of game worlds.

As for the PvP I’m not a huge PvPer myself until recently I didn’t like WvW much for example till I actually started tagging along with an organised WvW guild. It actually semi reminds me of raiding at times though I would love to see more variation of tactics available to spice things up a bit.

As for sPvP I like that it’s about your skill as a player and team. Not about gear. I’m not great at sPvP and generally hate PvP in other games this is pretty much the only game I quite enjoy it here and there.

Either way that is my opinion, and you have yours which is fine I just know plenty of people feel like I do and plenty of people feel like you do.

MrThebigcheese.2014:

Fay.2735:

If you aren’t into pvp, exploration, collecting cosmetic items or dungeons but rather have focus on levels and grind then this is the wrong game. Sure there’s some optional grind there but that’s the thing it’s optional. You make your own fun in this game using what is there, you aren’t told that you ‘need this or that’.

The PvP and exploration are so basic though. There is next to no customization for the classes and exploring the world isn’t even exploring. It’s a checklist on a map. It’s not adventurous, it’s like going to a theme park.

If you are under the impression that ticking all the poi, vistas etc on a map to get 100%=exploration sure.
Except it doesn’t- the coolest things in the game can only be found by actual exploration and have no tick box attached to them- look around, forget about your mimi-map and you might be surprised that it is not as basic as you seem to think.

Morrigan.2809:

MrThebigcheese.2014:

Fay.2735:

If you aren’t into pvp, exploration, collecting cosmetic items or dungeons but rather have focus on levels and grind then this is the wrong game. Sure there’s some optional grind there but that’s the thing it’s optional. You make your own fun in this game using what is there, you aren’t told that you ‘need this or that’.

The PvP and exploration are so basic though. There is next to no customization for the classes and exploring the world isn’t even exploring. It’s a checklist on a map. It’s not adventurous, it’s like going to a theme park.

If you are under the impression that ticking all the poi, vistas etc on a map to get 100%=exploration sure.
Except it doesn’t- the coolest things in the game can only be found by actual exploration and have no tick box attached to them- look around, forget about your mimi-map and you might be surprised that it is not as basic as you seem to think.

There is no sense of danger at all though. Exploring just isn’t fun for me when it’s impossible to have any kind of real failure. I mean what’s the point, just to have it done? It’s pretty tedious imo.

I like exploring to be an adventure. GW2 feels more like an introduction to mmos than an actual game.

Astralporing.1957:

Yes, it’s not an achievement. You have just finished the intro part, now get ready for the real game.

The real game…..

ahhhh Fractals.

MrThebigcheese.2014:

Morrigan.2809:

MrThebigcheese.2014:

Fay.2735:

If you aren’t into pvp, exploration, collecting cosmetic items or dungeons but rather have focus on levels and grind then this is the wrong game. Sure there’s some optional grind there but that’s the thing it’s optional. You make your own fun in this game using what is there, you aren’t told that you ‘need this or that’.

The PvP and exploration are so basic though. There is next to no customization for the classes and exploring the world isn’t even exploring. It’s a checklist on a map. It’s not adventurous, it’s like going to a theme park.

If you are under the impression that ticking all the poi, vistas etc on a map to get 100%=exploration sure.
Except it doesn’t- the coolest things in the game can only be found by actual exploration and have no tick box attached to them- look around, forget about your mimi-map and you might be surprised that it is not as basic as you seem to think.

There is no sense of danger at all though. Exploring just isn’t fun for me when it’s impossible to have any kind of real failure. I mean what’s the point, just to have it done? It’s pretty tedious imo.

I like exploring to be an adventure. GW2 feels more like an introduction to mmos than an actual game.

Ahhh I see, while I agree that there is no danger involved other than mobs- I guess you are talking open PvP? I do find it fun
- the point to me is the fact that I get to see really cool things, find hidden things, read lore in weird little journals with clues and sometimes even get a chest for my trouble.

It kind of makes me feel a little bit like Indiana Jones to be honest- I think I’ve poked my nose into almost every cave and nook and cranny on every map I’ve been on in the game.
To me that is the adventure.

MrThebigcheese.2014:

Fay.2735:

If you aren’t into pvp, exploration, collecting cosmetic items or dungeons but rather have focus on levels and grind then this is the wrong game. Sure there’s some optional grind there but that’s the thing it’s optional. You make your own fun in this game using what is there, you aren’t told that you ‘need this or that’.

The PvP and exploration are so basic though. There is next to no customization for the classes and exploring the world isn’t even exploring. It’s a checklist on a map. It’s not adventurous, it’s like going to a theme park.

agreed, i quit for a week after getting 100% because it drained all the enthusiasm out of me, the pain isn’t worth it because PvE is so mind numbingly easy, i will never play PvE in guildwars 2 again even if they release new content (assuming i come back, which i might for my guild), renown hearts should never have been apart of this game imo as well as part of world complete.

to me lv80 was not an achievement, and I suppose wasn’t meant to be so since the very beginning, it’s just when the game starts and I felt that way. Really enjoying my time on Tyria

@OP: GW2 isnt an Asia Grind MMO, so there is a reason why it might feel like its no achievment leveling to 80 if you come from FFXI.

For some people you dont even have to level to do the things you love in this game, like sPvP and such. PvE wasnt the main point of the game either, its a very PvP heavy game, so in order for people to get there, leveling was just a minor part of the game.

FFXI didnt have much except PvE, a big reason I never bothered with it. Well that and being an absolute grindfest.

To me the leveling is just long enough in this game, its entertaining enough and give you a good possibility to level other toons. The only thing I miss in this game is the thrill of WPvP while leveling.

Grinding doesnt equal hard. It just equals boring. Freedom on the other hand is a different thing. This game has so many paths you can take to reach 80, it’s all decided by the player.

If you enjoy Asia Grind MMOs then this isnt the game for you.

SneakyErvin.3056:

@OP: GW2 isnt an Asia Grind MMO, so there is a reason why it might feel like its no achievment leveling to 80 if you come from FFXI.

For some people you dont even have to level to do the things you love in this game, like sPvP and such. PvE wasnt the main point of the game either, its a very PvP heavy game, so in order for people to get there, leveling was just a minor part of the game.

FFXI didnt have much except PvE, a big reason I never bothered with it. Well that and being an absolute grindfest.

To me the leveling is just long enough in this game, its entertaining enough and give you a good possibility to level other toons. The only thing I miss in this game is the thrill of WPvP while leveling.

Grinding doesnt equal hard. It just equals boring. Freedom on the other hand is a different thing. This game has so many paths you can take to reach 80, it’s all decided by the player.

If you enjoy Asia Grind MMOs then this isnt the game for you.

Even though there’s a ton of grind in this game? -_- very contradicting statement, i actually agree about multiple paths you stated, i remember mentioning the same thing myself to a friend, until i realized every mob/zone in this game is exactly the same with a different skin, once you learn the mechanics of the game it becomes a snoozefest.

FaRectification.5678:

mulch.2586:

Yes, it’s a different, very moderate approach to progressing your character. There’s a lot lot more than there was in the first Guild Wars. So it’s at least something, and you don’t see people with a full set of 8 80s (yet).

But there’s no gating at all, except for leveling. No keys, no “hell levels,” no exponential increase in xp requirements. In fact, in my experience it speeds up as you get closer to 80.

In other games I played, it was less of a problem that there wasn’t much end-game, cuz it took forever to get to max. (e.g. my first NCSoft game, Lineage 2, would take ~2500-3000 hours of /played to get to max, after which there was sub-class and nobless and …)

There’s a high skill ceiling to this game, and if you are very skilled you can exploit the lvling very easily I guess. In a past game like Everquest, it was also gated in a sense because the mobs took a long time to kill regardless of skill. In GW2, it’s a great thing it has such a high skill ceiling and the ability to reward vastly different levels of skill. However, they might have to find ways to fix this as well because like you said it can be exploited too easily due to the lack of gating.

Gating is something artificial however, and it’s ideal to be able to reward players with above-average skill. With new ideas come new obstacles to tackle.

However, I still believe ideals are the way to develop a game, such as the pure horizontal progression ideal that some players have talked about here in the forums.

PVE in GW2 doesn’t particularly reward skill in any form. It’s extremely easy to play, not many mobs to kill per level, and there’s no competition between players. The biggest difference in leveling speed is simply the rate of gain of xp — other NCSoft games I’ve played it tookittenerally thousands of mobs per level, even in intermediate levels. GW2, where it tracks how many kills per weapon, you realize you’re mostly to 80 before you get your 500th dagger kill, for example.

Moreover, GW2 most of your xp is gifted for other things. You can level up to max level and equip in a matter of hours without leaving town. I think it’s all great, the only downside is so many people got to 80 in the first couple of weeks and then many felt like they were out of things to do in game.

What aspect of GW2 do you find skillful?

MrThebigcheese.2014:

There is no sense of danger at all though. Exploring just isn’t fun for me when it’s impossible to have any kind of real failure. I mean what’s the point, just to have it done? It’s pretty tedious imo.

I like exploring to be an adventure. GW2 feels more like an introduction to mmos than an actual game.

There are a couple of solutions to these problems I see in this post and others:

- If you want to make your exploration more of an adventure, go to areas higher in level than you are and explore there. It will be an adventure because the chance of failure is higher.

- If you want to level slower overall, go to areas below your level and never level in an area that’s the same level as you. This will actually make it harder and harder to level.

- Alternatively, if you want a real challenge in leveling, go to areas above your level and try to only level that way.

- Consider playing with a perma-death rule of some kind (like only allowing 5 defeats). Then, getting to 80 will be a real accomplishment.

I could probably think of twenty other ways to spice up the game…because the game is what you make of it.

Grind, in this game? Where?

Sure the legendaries are a grind, but no one is forcing it upon you. Some of us dont like the looks even. Besides that there is no grind, sure the doomsayers claim fractals are a grind for ascended gear, but that isnt true. It’s just a short run per day. Gearing up isnt a grind either.

The “grind” parts in this game doesnt even come close to asian games. So I dont see what part was contradicting, since I didnt say there wasnt a “grind” I said this isnt and Asia Grind MMO.

Regular MMOs and Asia Grainds are worlds apart.

ProphetSword.5427:

MrThebigcheese.2014:

There is no sense of danger at all though. Exploring just isn’t fun for me when it’s impossible to have any kind of real failure. I mean what’s the point, just to have it done? It’s pretty tedious imo.

I like exploring to be an adventure. GW2 feels more like an introduction to mmos than an actual game.

There are a couple of solutions to these problems I see in this post and others:

- If you want to make your exploration more of an adventure, go to areas higher in level than you are and explore there. It will be an adventure because the chance of failure is higher.

- If you want to level slower overall, go to areas below your level and never level in an area that’s the same level as you. This will actually make it harder and harder to level.

- Alternatively, if you want a real challenge in leveling, go to areas above your level and try to only level that way.

- Consider playing with a perma-death rule of some kind (like only allowing 5 defeats). Then, getting to 80 will be a real accomplishment.

I could probably think of twenty other ways to spice up the game…because the game is what you make of it.

Aaaaand don’t forget the best one, play with your nose with your hands tied behind your back, it’s a real party pleaser.

Lionaeron.5724:

Aaaaand don’t forget the best one, play with your nose with your hands tied behind your back, it’s a real party pleaser.

I would totally watch a video of a guy playing that way all the way to 80. Talk about an achievement.

Hycinthus.6483:

I came from FFXI where getting maximum level, which was 75, though achievable by anyone, it felt like a solid accomplishment. There were a lot of struggles along the way, for example, the limit break quests, where if we didn’t complete, we couldn’t level up beyond that level, even though we continue racking up exp points.

Another obstacle is the Kazham key quest, in order to get to levelling areas level 30+, everyone needs to do this, or else they don’t get access to the zone. You need to get this key, which are located at 3 dungeons strewn across the land, and parties are required.

Another obstacle is the Airship pass, and Chocobo pass, in order to take the main transportation systems. You have to nurture the chocobo and feed it Gyashl green over a time period, or you fail.

Another obstacle is the Artifact armor quests at level 60, where it’s almost mandatory for everyone to excel at parties at level 60+, and to prepare for the final limit break quest at 70. If you don’t complete the limit break at 70, you will never get pass that level.

Another obstacle: that parties were requirements, so we built up friends, and we seek out the same people if they did well in parties. So we rack up reputation of each other, and we knew the names of the best paladins, and the best white mages to seek.

Any game that forced me to do those kinds of activities would be on my shelf and never installed again. I’d probably quit it to go play another game, one that didn’t force me to do anything that I didn’t want to do.

Hey look! A wild Guild Wars 2 approaches!

ProphetSword.5427:

- If you want to level slower overall, go to areas below your level and never level in an area that’s the same level as you. This will actually make it harder and harder to level

This one actually doesn’t work. They have normalized experience across the board so killing a lvl 3 creature at lvl 70 gives you the same amount of experience as killing a lvl 70 creature at lvl 70.

My ranger did Queensdale, Kessex Hills, Metrica Province, and Caledon Forest only. Having made lvl 80 about 3/4 of the way through Caledon Forest.

Hey, OP, u should use the “In my opinion” in the title.

If u want endless grind, and struggle, feel free to purchase barbablo 3 and lvl through all the super meaningful PANTAGON lvls there.

We like it as it is here. U should not feel like completing the events on every single map as mandatory, u should do it if u like the exploration. Also i dont get why max lvl should be hard to reach? This is the most annoying part of every MMO out there, at least for me – the kitten leveling. I just hate it, with passion.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Grind, in this game? Where?

Sure the legendaries are a grind, but no one is forcing it upon you. Some of us dont like the looks even. Besides that there is no grind, sure the doomsayers claim fractals are a grind for ascended gear, but that isnt true. It’s just a short run per day. Gearing up isnt a grind either.

The “grind” parts in this game doesnt even come close to asian games. So I dont see what part was contradicting, since I didnt say there wasnt a “grind” I said this isnt and Asia Grind MMO.

Regular MMOs and Asia Grainds are worlds apart.

“Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs like Final Fantasy XI, World of Warcraft, Tibia, or Lineage as well as Grind wars 2 in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over again to advance their character level to be able to access newer content. Grinding may be required by some games to unlock additional features.”

I typed up a good essay explaining why there IS grind in this game and then realized what was the point trying to convince a blind drone like yourself (yes i know infracted jiggity jiggity Mod). It’s people like you who stop games evolving into better products for the rest of us to enjoy, your just arrogant and egotistic like the rest of these kittens(yes i wrote kittens) defending this game like the sad little pawns you are. /adios forums my ban will be incoming now so i hope you enjoyed my little jig

ProphetSword.5427:

Lionaeron.5724:

Aaaaand don’t forget the best one, play with your nose with your hands tied behind your back, it’s a real party pleaser.

I would totally watch a video of a guy playing that way all the way to 80. Talk about an achievement.

agreed an actual achievement in a game that has no worthy achievements at all

Leveling is so not the issue.. the issue is not being able to gear your alts at end game. It’s ridiculous. Nothing drops in the one dungeon they wanted us to do endless due to the age old and tired RNG system.

They turned the drops to trash in the open world, i mean really Skritt get better drops then the players do now. Can’t farm for anything thanks to DR, can get any higher drops to drop thanks to the broken mf, can’t get anything good from vets or champs or chests that you have to kill a champion or vet to get to even in orr. There is no longer any reward for playing. Seriously nothing. So why login.

This game should’ve had no levels. If they really wanted the entire game to be end game, levels are pointless. You’re 80 levels in. So what?