Guild Wars 2

A lot of people talk about what the devs are doing and why they’re so slow. This is a link from a post on Reddit. I didn’t make the post, but it might do some good if people read it, before they complained about how many people work at Anet and how little they do.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2e0uf6/a_different_perspective/

Well yeah, that’s obvious.
Now people can stop trying to falsely raise other people’s hopes about “big” projects cooking in the background being expansions or something equivalent.
Dry Top & EotM is as big as you could possibly expect from ANet.

First of all, EotM was a big project, there’s no question about it. Anyone who doesn’t think it was a big project isn’t someone I’d even bother debating. Because it wouldn’t be worth it. It was a major undertaking. There’s a lot going on there.

Drytop is also a big project and we haven’t seen the whole map yet. Again, if you don’t think its’ a big project, that’s fine. Everyone can make up their own mind.

But you see, EotM has been finished for a long time and so the devs that worked on that would in theory be working on other stuff. Because you know, they don’t just stand there after their big project is done. Same with other big projects, including the wardrobe and megaserver. Those are projects done. Those people move on.

So Anet had said at an interview they had about seven teams working on big projects.

I know you don’t like the game and you want to belittle everything done, but in reality you don’t really know anything more than anyone else about what’s going on in the background.

Anet could have been working towards an expansion for two years, squirreling away stuff the whole time. You really have no idea.

But it means that between those expansions the content we’re getting is pretty kitten ed good, even if some people don’t appreciate it.

Vayne.8563:

First of all, EotM was a big project, there’s no question about it. Anyone who doesn’t think it was a big project isn’t someone I’d even bother debating. Because it wouldn’t be worth it. It was a major undertaking. There’s a lot going on there.

Drytop is also a big project and we haven’t seen the whole map yet. Again, if you don’t think its’ a big project, that’s fine. Everyone can make up their own mind.

But you see, EotM has been finished for a long time and so the devs that worked on that would in theory be working on other stuff. Because you know, they don’t just stand there after their big project is done. Same with other big projects, including the wardrobe and megaserver. Those are projects done. Those people move on.

So Anet had said at an interview they had about seven teams working on big projects.

I know you don’t like the game and you want to belittle everything done, but in reality you don’t really know anything more than anyone else about what’s going on in the background.

Anet could have been working towards an expansion for two years, squirreling away stuff the whole time. You really have no idea.

But it means that between those expansions the content we’re getting is pretty kitten ed good, even if some people don’t appreciate it.

Its good content, and i appreciate every bit of it, but i just don’t like the way they put their focus. I don’t think they’re working ‘too slow’, just that its going into the wrong things. What the game desperately needs in my opinion is new [U]repeatable[/U], end-game content. Things you can keep doing after your character is level 80 and you have a full set of ascended gear. All of their content has either been temporary or do-it-once. If you look at Dry Top, its great content and all, but once you do LS and finish your vine?
What i’m thinking of is things like the Marionette fight, the Prime Hologram. That kind of stuff. You can do it multiple times per day, you can keep doing it as long as you find it fun, and it keeps being rewarding. Tequatl is a reasonable example of this, albeit slightly hard to defeat. But again, its timegated. Its not worth it for me to try and organise more than 1 Tequatl, or any world boss, run because its not rewarding for anyone anymore beyond the first time you do it!
This is why everyone loved SAB, and why so many people want it back. SAB was fun to do, challenging, repeatable as often as you wanted to, and it had fun, unique rewards. Add that to the fact its got things to do besides combat to complete it, and it makes for the best piece of content i’ve seen yet.
This is the kind of content i’d like to see. I don’t care if they would have to focus all of their development on it for half a year (assuming they informed us they’re working on a big project instead of staying deadly silent). If theres something with unique rewards, that pays off to do again, even stays fun, that, i’d love to have. Not content that leaves after two weeks leaving almost nothing to do remaining in the game from the update, or areas you complete once and are done with. SAB would have to be completed countless times to be done with it and have all the rewards.

I can’t find any interviews saying seven teams working on big projects, so you’ll need to link that for me to read.
I know they said they collapsed their story team to a single team and only a couple of big projects at the beginning of the year, which I’m sure we’ve technically seen now.
Are they working on more projects (big and small)? Yes, obviously.
However, the point is that when someone points out “big” project, I say refer to EotM or Dry Top in terms of size and development time.

Please get a reality check. This is ANet working full bore.

BlueZone.4236:

I can’t find any interviews saying seven teams working on big projects, so you’ll need to link that for me to read.
I know they said they collapsed their story team to a single team and only a couple of big projects at the beginning of the year, which I’m sure we’ve technically seen now.
Are they working on more projects (big and small)? Yes, obviously.
However, the point is that when someone points out “big” project, I say refer to EotM or Dry Top in terms of size and development time.

Please get a reality check. This is ANet working full bore.

The Colin interview, before the most recent one, when there were four Living World teams. In that interview, its’ a video not text, he says there are four teams rotating on the living story and other teams working on other content. Now there were a couple of interviews, so I’m not sure which ones are which. I’m pretty sure it was a Pax interview, but you know, I have zero intention of trolling videos for you to find the link. Someone will probably have it.

BlueZone.4236:

Well yeah, that’s obvious.
Now people can stop trying to falsely raise other people’s hopes about “big” projects cooking in the background being expansions or something equivalent.
Dry Top & EotM is as big as you could possibly expect from ANet.

Well lets put it this way. Work on Gw2 started in 2007. They had a ton of work to do at that point 5 years They created and populated 25 big zones with dynamic events and all that good stuff yet you think 2 smaller maps is all they can produce in 2 years with a much bigger team?

Its not like Arenanet made redundant most of the positions after release, they kept everyone + hired more people since release. Their content output didnt shrink so at the very least they’re capable of creating 5 big zones per year (thats assuming they started creating zones from day 1 of development and finished them on the last day prior to release which of course is absurd)

That the living story team is made up of 20 people out of over 350 and they alone did so much stuff is amazing. but they’re still like 1/15 of the whole employees and I dont think the living story team are the only ones doing any work at all.

The more I think about it, expansion is the only thing that makes sense.

So…. why did I fail to read in there that ArenaNet is hiring? Oh right… because they aren’t and the bottom line is all that matters…

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

I can’t find any interviews saying seven teams working on big projects, so you’ll need to link that for me to read.
I know they said they collapsed their story team to a single team and only a couple of big projects at the beginning of the year, which I’m sure we’ve technically seen now.
Are they working on more projects (big and small)? Yes, obviously.
However, the point is that when someone points out “big” project, I say refer to EotM or Dry Top in terms of size and development time.

Please get a reality check. This is ANet working full bore.

The Colin interview, before the most recent one, when there were four Living World teams. In that interview, its’ a video not text, he says there are four teams rotating on the living story and other teams working on other content. Now there were a couple of interviews, so I’m not sure which ones are which. I’m pretty sure it was a Pax interview, but you know, I have zero intention of trolling videos for you to find the link. Someone will probably have it.

How considerate of you.
Anyway, it’s unlikely it was seven big projects, unless you consider living world stuff big, as well.
But based on their history, we’ve got an idea on what they consider big and how we should shape our expectations on those words, so it’s all good.

A nice helpful insight post, sadly this won’t stop very vocal entitlement ranters.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

So…. why did I fail to read in there that ArenaNet is hiring? Oh right… because they aren’t and the bottom line is all that matters…

ohh yes they are:
http://www.arena.net/

Open jobs currently:
ArenaNet Programming Internship 2014
Build Engineer
Data Analyst
Economic Systems Designer
Gameplay Programmer
General Programmer
Marketing Designer
Marketing Production Manager
Motion Graphics Artist
Physics Programmer
Production Internship – Release Management
QA – Software Development Engineer in Test
Senior Animator
Spanish Linguistic QA
Technical Art Internship
Tools Programmer
Web Programmer

and just in case you think its just something they put up there and leave for show, here is a list of jobs they had as of one month ago thanks to the archive.org

ArenaNet Programming Internship 2014
Build Engineer
Data Analyst
Economic Systems Designer
Gameplay Programmer
General Programmer
German Localization Editor
IT Helpdesk Engineer
Motion Graphics Artist
Physics Programmer
QA Manager
Recruiting Coordinator
Systems Engineer
Tools Programmer
Web Programmer

You will notice the job list changes a bit

Galen Grey.4709:

BlueZone.4236:

Well yeah, that’s obvious.
Now people can stop trying to falsely raise other people’s hopes about “big” projects cooking in the background being expansions or something equivalent.
Dry Top & EotM is as big as you could possibly expect from ANet.

Well lets put it this way. Work on Gw2 started in 2007. They had a ton of work to do at that point 5 years They created and populated 25 big zones with dynamic events and all that good stuff yet you think 2 smaller maps is all they can produce in 2 years with a much bigger team?

Its not like Arenanet made redundant most of the positions after release, they kept everyone + hired more people since release. Their content output didnt shrink so at the very least they’re capable of creating 5 big zones per year (thats assuming they started creating zones from day 1 of development and finished them on the last day prior to release which of course is absurd)

That the living story team is made up of 20 people out of over 350 and they alone did so much stuff is amazing. but they’re still like 1/15 of the whole employees and I dont think the living story team are the only ones doing any work at all.

The more I think about it, expansion is the only thing that makes sense.

Well, the point of the link Vayne provides shows how many non technical roles exist in a company. In that case, an expansion doesn’t make sense.

And thanks for the above open jobs list. In fact, it proves they are lacking in the technical department, and funnily enough the marketing roles were snapped up.

BlueZone.4236:

Galen Grey.4709:

BlueZone.4236:

Well yeah, that’s obvious.
Now people can stop trying to falsely raise other people’s hopes about “big” projects cooking in the background being expansions or something equivalent.
Dry Top & EotM is as big as you could possibly expect from ANet.

Well lets put it this way. Work on Gw2 started in 2007. They had a ton of work to do at that point 5 years They created and populated 25 big zones with dynamic events and all that good stuff yet you think 2 smaller maps is all they can produce in 2 years with a much bigger team?

Its not like Arenanet made redundant most of the positions after release, they kept everyone + hired more people since release. Their content output didnt shrink so at the very least they’re capable of creating 5 big zones per year (thats assuming they started creating zones from day 1 of development and finished them on the last day prior to release which of course is absurd)

That the living story team is made up of 20 people out of over 350 and they alone did so much stuff is amazing. but they’re still like 1/15 of the whole employees and I dont think the living story team are the only ones doing any work at all.

The more I think about it, expansion is the only thing that makes sense.

Well, the point of the link Vayne provides shows how many non technical roles exist in a company. In that case, an expansion doesn’t make sense.

And thanks for the above open jobs list. In fact, it proves they are lacking in the technical department, and funnily enough the marketing roles were snapped up.

An expansion makes perfect sense, if you’re working on stuff in the background and if you’re NOT releasing most or all of it. You do that to make an expansion.

Again just because you personally filter everything through a negative filter, doesn’t make everything negative.

Mastermavrick.2439:

A nice helpful insight post, sadly this won’t stop very vocal entitlement ranters.

This post wasn’t supposed to stop that specific demographic. It’s for all the people who read and never post. Those people now have some extra information on which to judge how seriously to take specific rants.

There are some very good critical posts on these forums. And then there are people who just want to either troll, or they’re so convinced their viewpoint is some sort of majority opinion (or even worse better than everyone else’s opinion).

And there are a lot of people out there who do believe what they read without much question. So showing both sides of the story is always a good idea.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Galen Grey.4709:

BlueZone.4236:

Well yeah, that’s obvious.
Now people can stop trying to falsely raise other people’s hopes about “big” projects cooking in the background being expansions or something equivalent.
Dry Top & EotM is as big as you could possibly expect from ANet.

Well lets put it this way. Work on Gw2 started in 2007. They had a ton of work to do at that point 5 years They created and populated 25 big zones with dynamic events and all that good stuff yet you think 2 smaller maps is all they can produce in 2 years with a much bigger team?

Its not like Arenanet made redundant most of the positions after release, they kept everyone + hired more people since release. Their content output didnt shrink so at the very least they’re capable of creating 5 big zones per year (thats assuming they started creating zones from day 1 of development and finished them on the last day prior to release which of course is absurd)

That the living story team is made up of 20 people out of over 350 and they alone did so much stuff is amazing. but they’re still like 1/15 of the whole employees and I dont think the living story team are the only ones doing any work at all.

The more I think about it, expansion is the only thing that makes sense.

Well, the point of the link Vayne provides shows how many non technical roles exist in a company. In that case, an expansion doesn’t make sense.

And thanks for the above open jobs list. In fact, it proves they are lacking in the technical department, and funnily enough the marketing roles were snapped up.

An expansion makes perfect sense, if you’re working on stuff in the background and if you’re NOT releasing most or all of it. You do that to make an expansion.

Again just because you personally filter everything through a negative filter, doesn’t make everything negative.

What? Regardless of your biased view on me, the idea of them holding back most of the stuff is silly. I don’t get why you bother to provide such a link only to do a heel turn on said perspective.

Lol. If they didn’t hold back on things they developed, what would they release in an expansion? Are you saying they would just spend two days working on an expansion, and then release it? Or were you wanting them to announce they would begin work on an expansion, and then spend a year or two working on it, and not release anything else?

I mean, it would have to be one or the other, would it not? I’m sooo confused.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Galen Grey.4709:

BlueZone.4236:

Well yeah, that’s obvious.
Now people can stop trying to falsely raise other people’s hopes about “big” projects cooking in the background being expansions or something equivalent.
Dry Top & EotM is as big as you could possibly expect from ANet.

Well lets put it this way. Work on Gw2 started in 2007. They had a ton of work to do at that point 5 years They created and populated 25 big zones with dynamic events and all that good stuff yet you think 2 smaller maps is all they can produce in 2 years with a much bigger team?

Its not like Arenanet made redundant most of the positions after release, they kept everyone + hired more people since release. Their content output didnt shrink so at the very least they’re capable of creating 5 big zones per year (thats assuming they started creating zones from day 1 of development and finished them on the last day prior to release which of course is absurd)

That the living story team is made up of 20 people out of over 350 and they alone did so much stuff is amazing. but they’re still like 1/15 of the whole employees and I dont think the living story team are the only ones doing any work at all.

The more I think about it, expansion is the only thing that makes sense.

Well, the point of the link Vayne provides shows how many non technical roles exist in a company. In that case, an expansion doesn’t make sense.

And thanks for the above open jobs list. In fact, it proves they are lacking in the technical department, and funnily enough the marketing roles were snapped up.

An expansion makes perfect sense, if you’re working on stuff in the background and if you’re NOT releasing most or all of it. You do that to make an expansion.

Again just because you personally filter everything through a negative filter, doesn’t make everything negative.

What? Regardless of your biased view on me, the idea of them holding back most of the stuff is silly. I don’t get why you bother to provide such a link only to do a heel turn on said perspective.

I’m not doing a heel turn at all. I’m saying I believe that in addition to working on an expansion, there are probably less people working on the content we’re seeing than we think. However, when people say lazy, what is everyone doing? Well…some of the people are working SLOWLY on an expansion (I don’t believe they have a full team working on all of it. I believe they’re working on projects and saving them for the expansion, which is the only way expansions can really be produced anyway), and I believe that the people who are left working are probably doing the best the can with the resources they have.

Maybe if people would stop using words like lazy, I wouldn’t have to post this sort of thing. Maybe if people stopped saying there are so many people Anet there should be MUCH more content.

There’s a steady flow of content to hold us over while an expansion is worked on. That’s my theory.

Just face the facts. This game ain’t doing well,
I’m tired of the problems.
I’ll give it until the new WoW expansion is released.

In sure it’s not the developers fault and may be that they are restricted and controlled by managers or ncsoft.

So why should I suffer with them when I could play a game that’s thriving ?

BlueZone.4236:

Galen Grey.4709:

BlueZone.4236:

Well yeah, that’s obvious.
Now people can stop trying to falsely raise other people’s hopes about “big” projects cooking in the background being expansions or something equivalent.
Dry Top & EotM is as big as you could possibly expect from ANet.

Well lets put it this way. Work on Gw2 started in 2007. They had a ton of work to do at that point 5 years They created and populated 25 big zones with dynamic events and all that good stuff yet you think 2 smaller maps is all they can produce in 2 years with a much bigger team?

Its not like Arenanet made redundant most of the positions after release, they kept everyone + hired more people since release. Their content output didnt shrink so at the very least they’re capable of creating 5 big zones per year (thats assuming they started creating zones from day 1 of development and finished them on the last day prior to release which of course is absurd)

That the living story team is made up of 20 people out of over 350 and they alone did so much stuff is amazing. but they’re still like 1/15 of the whole employees and I dont think the living story team are the only ones doing any work at all.

The more I think about it, expansion is the only thing that makes sense.

Well, the point of the link Vayne provides shows how many non technical roles exist in a company. In that case, an expansion doesn’t make sense.

And thanks for the above open jobs list. In fact, it proves they are lacking in the technical department, and funnily enough the marketing roles were snapped up.

The link Vayne provided is for a company unrelated to Arenanet, not all companies are structure the same way. I also work for an IT company and by far the bulk of the employees work in the technical department.

No it doesnt, not even close.

1. Their technical department was good enough to develop the game itself. That technical department is still there.

2. These are roles sought in addition to the ones already working there. (again Arenanet was 270 people at launch and now its over 350 as of last year) so if anything this says they’re boosting their technical department not that its lacking

3. you’re assuming they just want 1 of each role. Different job applications might be have different requirements for example while they may have needed just 1 marketing guy they may need 10 developers and thus it would be easier to fill marketing then development jobs.

4. I think you may have read my post backworks. The bottom list is the jobs they sought in July. The top list is the jobs they’re seeking right now. Ergo that list shows that they filled the following positions (or decided they dont need one anymore, also a possibility):
German Localization Editor
IT Helpdesk Engineer
QA Manager
Recruiting Coordinator
Systems Engineer

and are now also seeking
Marketing Designer
Marketing Production Manager
Production Internship – Release Management
QA – Software Development Engineer in Test
Spanish Linguistic QA
Technical Art Internship

It may be interesting to note the new positions.. Wouldnt those be positions needed if you’re doing an expansion? Additional marketing, more resources on release management, stronger QA. etc.. but thats just entirely speculation on my part, they could very well need them for the existent core game.

The difference between said post and said issue is.

That company hired people for the wrong task. They should know better.

Anet as a company has only grown in number since they shipped. It’s up to them to get the right people for the right jobs.

WvW updates are a clear example of where this has gone horrifically wrong. Devon and his merry bunch have all but ignored the issues plaguing that. Is that his fault ? No, it’s on Anet management for shifting him to an environment he cannot handle. He did good for open world content, however his WvW content fixes and updates are all but backwards.

Zardul.3952:

Just face the facts. This game ain’t doing well,
I’m tired of the problems.
I’ll give it until the new WoW expansion is released.

In sure it’s not the developers fault and may be that they are restricted and controlled by managers or ncsoft.

So why should I suffer with them when I could play a game that’s thriving ?

Facts? lmao

The fact is, according to the NCsoft quarterly report, the game is doing well. According to both Overwolf and Raptr, the game is doing well. According to logic (since they’re hiring not firing) the game is doing well.

On what do you base your “fact”?

I’m pretty sure I just read that WoW lost 2 million subscribers in a very short period of time. That’s about a loss of 25% of their player base.

Maybe you need to do a bit of research before quoting “facts”.

I remember last year Vayne was saying how great GW2 will become in the future. And now when people complain about lack of content, his saying really 300 employee isn’t that much to create big content.

Or the time marketing talked about the expansion worth of content that the game dev actually come out in the end and apologize about it and blame it back to the marketing…

I actually think GW2 provides lots of content. But unlike other mmorpg, GW2 dont’ try to maximize their content. For example other mmorpg just create a single dungeon or raid and that is enough to keep people busy for a few month to half a year.

Vayne.8563:

I’m pretty sure I just read that WoW lost 2 million subscribers in a very short period of time. That’s about a loss of 25% of their player base.

Maybe you need to do a bit of research before quoting “facts”.

Anet too scared to release actual data dont’ make them any better.

You are pointing your finger at companies who actually release info, compare to a company who is too scared to release any info.

Galen Grey.4709:

BlueZone.4236:

Galen Grey.4709:

BlueZone.4236:

Well yeah, that’s obvious.
Now people can stop trying to falsely raise other people’s hopes about “big” projects cooking in the background being expansions or something equivalent.
Dry Top & EotM is as big as you could possibly expect from ANet.

Well lets put it this way. Work on Gw2 started in 2007. They had a ton of work to do at that point 5 years They created and populated 25 big zones with dynamic events and all that good stuff yet you think 2 smaller maps is all they can produce in 2 years with a much bigger team?

Its not like Arenanet made redundant most of the positions after release, they kept everyone + hired more people since release. Their content output didnt shrink so at the very least they’re capable of creating 5 big zones per year (thats assuming they started creating zones from day 1 of development and finished them on the last day prior to release which of course is absurd)

That the living story team is made up of 20 people out of over 350 and they alone did so much stuff is amazing. but they’re still like 1/15 of the whole employees and I dont think the living story team are the only ones doing any work at all.

The more I think about it, expansion is the only thing that makes sense.

Well, the point of the link Vayne provides shows how many non technical roles exist in a company. In that case, an expansion doesn’t make sense.

And thanks for the above open jobs list. In fact, it proves they are lacking in the technical department, and funnily enough the marketing roles were snapped up.

The link Vayne provided is for a company unrelated to Arenanet, not all companies are structure the same way. I also work for an IT company and by far the bulk of the employees work in the technical department.

No it doesnt, not even close.

1. Their technical department was good enough to develop the game itself. That technical department is still there.

2. These are roles sought in addition to the ones already working there. (again Arenanet was 270 people at launch and now its over 350 as of last year) so if anything this says they’re boosting their technical department not that its lacking

3. you’re assuming they just want 1 of each role. Different job applications might be have different requirements for example while they may have needed just 1 marketing guy they may need 10 developers and thus it would be easier to fill marketing then development jobs.

4. I think you may have read my post backworks. The bottom list is the jobs they sought in July. The top list is the jobs they’re seeking right now. Ergo that list shows that they filled the following positions (or decided they dont need one anymore, also a possibility):
German Localization Editor
IT Helpdesk Engineer
QA Manager
Recruiting Coordinator
Systems Engineer

and are now also seeking
Marketing Designer
Marketing Production Manager
Production Internship – Release Management
QA – Software Development Engineer in Test
Spanish Linguistic QA
Technical Art Internship

It may be interesting to note the new positions.. Wouldnt those be positions needed if you’re doing an expansion? Additional marketing, more resources on release management, stronger QA. etc.. but thats just entirely speculation on my part, they could very well need them for the existent core game.

Yes, I’m aware of Vayne posted. He posted it as a way to invoke sympathy to explain away people’s outrage on the slow timing of the content. However, then he backpedals to imply they’re just holding back content. Huh…

My bad on reading the listing order. However, the additional marketing roles doesn’t have to imply expansion. They’ve been trying to get more sales, as I still don’t believe they’ve hit that 4 million mark in the west.

As for the technical roles, I wasn’t implying lacking in the sense that the old technical roles have left in droves or something like that.
What I was trying to say is the lack of technical roles in order to push content out faster and/or better quality than what they’ve been pushing out currently.
People have been complaining about the poor QA and the lack of expansion worth of content, so they need that regardless of expansion or not. Since they’re still adamant in the Living World structure, I am going to assume they’re just pushing on their core game.

But honestly, I would gladly eat humble pie if they have been working on an expansion in the past two years, however, I truly doubt it.

laokoko.7403:

I remember last year Vayne was saying how great GW2 will become in the future. And now when people complain about lack of content, his saying really 300 employee isn’t that much to create big content.

Or the time marketing talked about the expansion worth of content that the game dev actually come out in the end and apologize about it and blame it back to the marketing…

I actually think GW2 provides lots of content. But unlike other mmorpg, GW2 dont’ try to maximize their content. For example other mmorpg just create a single dungeon or raid and that is enough to keep people busy for a few month to half a year.

I have always said, always no matter how far back you go, that Guild Wars 2 isn’t a great game. It’s a good game. It has the potential to be better. I always knew it was going to take time.

I STILL don’t think it’s a great game. It’s still a good game. There are improvements to the game for my play style. I’m relatively sure if I were a PvPer I’d be unhappy with the game. But as a PvE’er who doesn’t really prefer dungeons and raids, this is the only game out there that provides the content I like.

The game has advanced slower than I thought it would. That’s what happens with predictions sometimes. But now, at the two year mark, it’s starting to move forward in the way I thought it would.

There’s still every chance this can become a great game for me.

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

I’m pretty sure I just read that WoW lost 2 million subscribers in a very short period of time. That’s about a loss of 25% of their player base.

Maybe you need to do a bit of research before quoting “facts”.

Anet too scared to release actual data dont’ make them any better.

You are pointing your finger at companies who actually release info, compare to a company who is too scared to release any info.

As a public company BOTH games release info and I’m surprised you’re not aware of it. But since Anet doesn’t have subscriptions, it can’t release subscriber numbers, which should come as no surprise to anyone.

It releases profit statements. WoW doesn’t release that it lost 2 million subscribers because they’re brave. They have to release that information by law to their subscribers or they can be sued. They have no real choice.

Anet also releases quarterly reports to their investors, so anyone can see how much profit this game makes.

It’s massively entertaining to me that anyone would think that Blizzard releases figures because they’re somehow braver than another company.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Lol. If they didn’t hold back on things they developed, what would they release in an expansion? Are you saying they would just spend two days working on an expansion, and then release it? Or were you wanting them to announce they would begin work on an expansion, and then spend a year or two working on it, and not release anything else?

I mean, it would have to be one or the other, would it not? I’m sooo confused.

Hey there, late response here.
Your confusion lies in your assumption in an expansion.
My assumption is that’s not true and that they’ve been folding their “big” projects (long term projects) in the existing living world content, like they said they might do.

BlueZone.4236:

Yes, I’m aware of Vayne posted. He posted it as a way to invoke sympathy to explain away people’s outrage on the slow timing of the content. However, then he backpedals to imply they’re just holding back content. Huh…

My bad on reading the listing order. However, the additional marketing roles doesn’t have to imply expansion. They’ve been trying to get more sales, as I still don’t believe they’ve hit that 4 million mark in the west.

As for the technical roles, I wasn’t implying lacking in the sense that the old technical roles have left in droves or something like that.
What I was trying to say is the lack of technical roles in order to push content out faster and/or better quality than what they’ve been pushing out currently.
People have been complaining about the poor QA and the lack of expansion worth of content, so they need that regardless of expansion or not. Since they’re still adamant in the Living World structure, I am going to assume they’re just pushing on their core game.

But honestly, I would gladly eat humble pie if they have been working on an expansion in the past two years, however, I truly doubt it.

Cant speak for Vayne but pretty sure he meant it as one of the reason not the only reason. Vayne has been saying that Anet are probably working on an Expansion far longer then I have after all. An expansion will obviously slow the output of the living story as naturally it will eat up most of the resources.

No they dont imply expansion, they just fit the pattern nothing else. As for the 4m copies in the west, its hard to say. Their quarterly income has been quite consistent and that means either player retention is great. New players are coming at the same rate as players leaving. Existent players are increasing money spend exponentially.

Thats one possibility you’re right but its not the only one. Another is it takes a lot of resources to have living story and expansions worked on in parallel. They could simply be bolstering their resources so that they relieve pressure from one or the other.
After all if they do manage to give us living story and expansions it will be a great thing for both us and Arenanet. For US living story would mean no need to endure months of repetitive content to keep us busy while an expansion is in development and for Arenanet its great cause it gives them a good stead income of about $25m per quarter which in itself is pretty good + $120M+ per expansion releases and that not counting china.

BlueZone.4236:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Lol. If they didn’t hold back on things they developed, what would they release in an expansion? Are you saying they would just spend two days working on an expansion, and then release it? Or were you wanting them to announce they would begin work on an expansion, and then spend a year or two working on it, and not release anything else?

I mean, it would have to be one or the other, would it not? I’m sooo confused.

Hey there, late response here.
Your confusion lies in your assumption in an expansion.
My assumption is that’s not true and that they’ve been folding their “big” projects (long term projects) in the existing living world content, like they said they might do.

Sorry for repeating myself but you didnt answer me before either so I guess its a valid question. In 5 years they did 25 full fledge zones, 1500 dynamic events, 8 dungeons all of WvW, etc… how would you explain that with the same team and an extra 20% resources they make much less content? It just doesnt add up, maybe its not an expansion but there has to be something bigger going on that would explain this discrepancy. Its not like its faster to develop content during active development than after release, in fact the opposite is true . It may not be an expansion sure but it has to be something. I am sure they dont pay people to play the game and do nothing else all day at Arenanet (if thats the case please let me know I’d love ajob there )

Galen Grey.4709:

BlueZone.4236:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Lol. If they didn’t hold back on things they developed, what would they release in an expansion? Are you saying they would just spend two days working on an expansion, and then release it? Or were you wanting them to announce they would begin work on an expansion, and then spend a year or two working on it, and not release anything else?

I mean, it would have to be one or the other, would it not? I’m sooo confused.

Hey there, late response here.
Your confusion lies in your assumption in an expansion.
My assumption is that’s not true and that they’ve been folding their “big” projects (long term projects) in the existing living world content, like they said they might do.

Sorry for repeating myself but you didnt answer me before either so I guess its a valid question. In 5 years they did 25 full fledge zones, 1500 dynamic events, 8 dungeons all of WvW, etc… how would you explain that with the same team and an extra 20% resources they make much less content? It just doesnt add up, maybe its not an expansion but there has to be something bigger going on that would explain this discrepancy. Its not like its faster to develop content during active development than after release, in fact the opposite is true . It may not be an expansion sure but it has to be something. I am sure they dont pay people to play the game and do nothing else all day at Arenanet (if thats the case please let me know I’d love ajob there )

Was going answer your previous response, but I’ll answer this first.
Good question. However, be aware they have lost employees leading up to the release of the game (I’m not talking like in droves or something like that). Losing members who have knowledge of their tools (and the quirks to work around the bugs) can be a huge blow to production.
Other possibilities include burn out, “iterative” style process (ie. scrap projects hundreds of times), poor management leading to projects going no where.

BlueZone.4236:

Was going answer your previous response, but I’ll answer this first.
Good question. However, be aware they have lost employees leading up to the release of the game (I’m not talking like in droves or something like that). Losing members who have knowledge of their tools (and the quirks to work around the bugs) can be a huge blow to production.
Other possibilities include burn out, “iterative” style process (ie. scrap projects hundreds of times), poor management leading to projects going no where.

Valid answers all of them not disagreeing there, my only issue is would it account for this much?

Some employees did leave its true but the majority of them didnt and overall we know the team grew. New employees need time to learn and adjust so there will be an impact I just dont see it large enough to account for the discrepancy.

Poor management and scrapped projects is also another possibility. Management as far as I am aware didnt change since development started or well not much. So if this is indeed an issue wouldnt it have existed while the game was developed as well and if thats the case wouldnt the base line of content development speed include that factor as well? now it may have gotten worst after release as some priorities shift around sure but again is it large enough to account for all of it?

Cause even taking both of these factors together I just dont see how productivity could have fallen to like 25% of what it was during development it just doesnt make sense. There has to be something we dont know about thats at the very least twice as big of what we saw so far.

If they’re not working on big stuff in the background, something is seriously wrong. I think the difference between me and a lot of people dissatisfied with the game is that I grew up being taught to make my own entertainment and that’s what I do. I’m sure if you played any game for the hours I played this game, you’d exhaust the content no matter how much content there was. So I have to content myself (pun intended) with the content available and I’ve always pretty much been in that boat…in every game.

My problem is the types of content most games focus on doesn’t interest me that much. I mean yes, I like new classes and skills, but I don’t particularly like dungeons and raids. That’s why Guild Wars 1 appealed to me so much.

So this game is going in the general direction I want, albeit more slowly than I figured.

I’m a pretty saavy guy so if they’re going more slowly than I figured, they must be doing something else (unless of course I’m wrong about how long it would take them to get to this point).

With a crew of their size, they should be further along than they are, UNLESS they really do have those big projects in the background.

Why not talk about it?

Expansions are gold to companies. They are something you announce at a time to garner the absolutely highest interest in them. You do it to compete with other competitor’s releases, or in a lull between them.

For example, Rift stopped all advertising and promotion when SWToR came out. They knew they couldn’t out advertise SWToR, so they just stopped. Period. They figured they’d start advertising again when the honeymoon period ended and get the disgruntled players all MMOs end up with. This is what they did.

MMO expansion annoucements are usually done strategically. If you talk about them beforehand they lose that impact and they let competitor know what you’re doing and what your schedule is.

Anet was able to come out a month before Mists of Pandaria by playing their cards close to their chest. It was a smart move. Coming out after would likely have hurt sales.

Much more interesting in the reddit thread for me is this post btw :

But you’re pretty much spot on, as well as one othher important point: adding developers doesn’t always make development faster or more efficient. When you add developers, they need to familiarize with the systems used, the conventions etc. Also, and more importantly, the more devs you have, the more you have to make sure everyone is up to date with everything that’s going on (which crosses with your point in the OP about the complexity of systems). There’s a size at which it’s pretty much impossible, and that’s usually when things go to kitten because Robert from X systems developed a bit of code that does kitten with Joe’s from Y systems, and when it causes problems none’s the wiser as to why. Which costs time from Jack, the lead dev / experienced senior kick-kitten dev, whose time would be better used developping awesome kitten, but who’s suddenly needed to fix a SUPER DUPER URGENT BLOCKING CRITICAL bug.

Yep, developing software.

Spyritdragon.6048:

. If you look at Dry Top, its great content and all, but once you do LS and finish your vine?
What i’m thinking of is things like the Marionette fight, the Prime Hologram. That kind of stuff. You can do it multiple times per day, you can keep doing it as long as you find it fun, and it keeps being rewarding. Tequatl is a reasonable example of this, albeit slightly hard to defeat.

Personally i can spent much more time in Dry Top then at all those other things.

Tryed Marionette 5-6 times .. not even once have beaten it, and if i had beaten it i
would also never do it again. Prime Hole .. beaten once .. never again.

Teq ? Was there 2-3 times .. was always a wasteland at that time and never even
tried to do it again, since i don’t want to waste my time with camping .. had that
long enough in EQ2.

Galen Grey.4709:

Cant speak for Vayne but pretty sure he meant it as one of the reason not the only reason. Vayne has been saying that Anet are probably working on an Expansion far longer then I have after all. An expansion will obviously slow the output of the living story as naturally it will eat up most of the resources.

No they dont imply expansion, they just fit the pattern nothing else. As for the 4m copies in the west, its hard to say. Their quarterly income has been quite consistent and that means either player retention is great. New players are coming at the same rate as players leaving. Existent players are increasing money spend exponentially.

Thats one possibility you’re right but its not the only one. Another is it takes a lot of resources to have living story and expansions worked on in parallel. They could simply be bolstering their resources so that they relieve pressure from one or the other.
After all if they do manage to give us living story and expansions it will be a great thing for both us and Arenanet. For US living story would mean no need to endure months of repetitive content to keep us busy while an expansion is in development and for Arenanet its great cause it gives them a good stead income of about $25m per quarter which in itself is pretty good + $120M+ per expansion releases and that not counting china.

Yes, they’re doing financially well. No doubt about that.
Where all the money’s coming from, I don’t know. Star Citizen looks like a niche game, yet it has pulled in $50 million in crowd funding.
My thoughts are:
a) Yes, I think player retention is stable.
b) They are definitely retaining those with heavy wallets (or gambling addicts, who knows), however I think the population is small (whatever “small” means to people is irrelevant).

Anyway, here’s my real gripe with people uttering ‘expansion’, however this is a bit of a lose-lose situation.
My opinion is the rage that happened currently is partly caused by this parroting of false hope of some “big” content that’s supposedly cooking for god knows how long (and yes the ragers themselves are to blame, obviously).
People keep saying it and it’ll be a disappointment when it comes.
Don’t say anything and people wonder what’s going on.
Parroting the false hope whilst content is being drip fed…you get to where we are now. People snap. It was inevitable, in my opinion.

Galen Grey.4709:

BlueZone.4236:

Was going answer your previous response, but I’ll answer this first.
Good question. However, be aware they have lost employees leading up to the release of the game (I’m not talking like in droves or something like that). Losing members who have knowledge of their tools (and the quirks to work around the bugs) can be a huge blow to production.
Other possibilities include burn out, “iterative” style process (ie. scrap projects hundreds of times), poor management leading to projects going no where.

Valid answers all of them not disagreeing there, my only issue is would it account for this much?

Some employees did leave its true but the majority of them didnt and overall we know the team grew. New employees need time to learn and adjust so there will be an impact I just dont see it large enough to account for the discrepancy.

Poor management and scrapped projects is also another possibility. Management as far as I am aware didnt change since development started or well not much. So if this is indeed an issue wouldnt it have existed while the game was developed as well and if thats the case wouldnt the base line of content development speed include that factor as well? now it may have gotten worst after release as some priorities shift around sure but again is it large enough to account for all of it?

Cause even taking both of these factors together I just dont see how productivity could have fallen to like 25% of what it was during development it just doesnt make sense. There has to be something we dont know about thats at the very least twice as big of what we saw so far.

What we do know is the teams have been restructured/changed at least 3 times. Sorry, I don’t have links since a lot of it is old info and it’ll take too long to fish them again.
First was shifting from GW2 release to the idea of doing Living Story (monthly content at the time, I think).
2nd was after the whole fence repairing living story backlash (ramped up to 2 week cadence).
3rd was transition from living story season 1 to season 2.

I think the biggest show stoppers occurred around the first two restructure.

Whether it’s big enough to explain the discrepancy, maybe, maybe not.
In a big company, people can fall into the cracks avoiding detection that they’re doing nothing, as well. :P
The only projects that really matter are the ones closest to crunch time and the rest don’t need to be held accountable.

Here is a different perspective for you. Every player has their own likes and dislikes. You will either be happy with how things are in GW2 or you won’t. Anet can never please everyone. The very best they can do is continue the balancing act to try to please as many players as possible so as to increase and maintain profits.

I have my dislikes about the game, and I voice them from time to time, but I also have a lot of admoration for the devs and I do like (no love) various aspects of the game. And it is because of this love for parts of the game that makes it hard to stomach the negatives. But like I say, my negatives will be someone elses positives, and that’s an easy thing to forget most of the time.

BlueZone.4236:

Yes, they’re doing financially well. No doubt about that.
Where all the money’s coming from, I don’t know. Star Citizen looks like a niche game, yet it has pulled in $50 million in crowd funding.

my point isnt that the game is doing financially well its that by doing LS and expansions side by side they can easily boost income by at the very least 33% then if they had to do one or the other.

BlueZone.4236:

My thoughts are:
a) Yes, I think player retention is stable.
b) They are definitely retaining those with heavy wallets (or gambling addicts, who knows), however I think the population is small (whatever “small” means to people is irrelevant).

It cant be small because the quarter income is still in line with the 3rd quarter after release where they said they had 450k concurrent players online. You need a substantial population to achieve 450k concurrent players. Now either people are spending considerably more or the player base is still pretty large.

BlueZone.4236:

Anyway, here’s my real gripe with people uttering ‘expansion’, however this is a bit of a lose-lose situation.
My opinion is the rage that happened currently is partly caused by this parroting of false hope of some “big” content that’s supposedly cooking for god knows how long (and yes the ragers themselves are to blame, obviously).
People keep saying it and it’ll be a disappointment when it comes.
Don’t say anything and people wonder what’s going on.
Parroting the false hope whilst content is being drip fed…you get to where we are now. People snap. It was inevitable, in my opinion.

Well I dont think anyone ever brings up the big content cooking / potentially expansion in development out of the blues, its always in reply to statements arguing how little content Gw2 releases now that it launched. Ergo we’re not building false hope per-se we’re trying to salvage disrepair so to speak.

BlueZone.4236:

What we do know is the teams have been restructured/changed at least 3 times. Sorry, I don’t have links since a lot of it is old info and it’ll take too long to fish them again.
First was shifting from GW2 release to the idea of doing Living Story (monthly content at the time, I think).
2nd was after the whole fence repairing living story backlash (ramped up to 2 week cadence).
3rd was transition from living story season 1 to season 2.

I think the biggest show stoppers occurred around the first two restructure.

Whether it’s big enough to explain the discrepancy, maybe, maybe not.
In a big company, people can fall into the cracks avoiding detection that they’re doing nothing, as well. :P
The only projects that really matter are the ones closest to crunch time and the rest don’t need to be held accountable.

Well as far as we know its just the living story team that restructured 3 times, dont think they ever said anything about anyone else and the living story team is pretty small just 20 people. The restructuring where not negative either I think we’ll both agree that living story kept getting progressively better and its currently pretty good especially when compared to the first few episodes of season 1.

Can some procrastinate and avoid detection. Sure no doubt. But we’re talking about over 75% less productivity here.

5 per year vs 2 zone which have the size of 1 regular zone
about 5 dungeon paths per year vs. 2 or 3
8 jumping puzzles per year vs 2 or 3
300 dynamic events per year vs … well less

I dont know obviously but this cant all be the result of inefficiencies and procrastination, its just way too much.

I think Galen has it right.

Regardless of whether the big features are something that will be released in a living world type style or an expansion that I can’t say.

But to think those projects aren’t happening…it would almost beggar belief. There’s not enough content coming for the amount of people they have working there.

And since Colin has said there are teams working on bigger projects, I’m afraid I’ll have to believe him.

Galen Grey.4709:

BlueZone.4236:

Yes, they’re doing financially well. No doubt about that.
Where all the money’s coming from, I don’t know. Star Citizen looks like a niche game, yet it has pulled in $50 million in crowd funding.

my point isnt that the game is doing financially well its that by doing LS and expansions side by side they can easily boost income by at the very least 33% then if they had to do one or the other.

BlueZone.4236:

My thoughts are:
a) Yes, I think player retention is stable.
b) They are definitely retaining those with heavy wallets (or gambling addicts, who knows), however I think the population is small (whatever “small” means to people is irrelevant).

It cant be small because the quarter income is still in line with the 3rd quarter after release where they said they had 450k concurrent players online. You need a substantial population to achieve 450k concurrent players. Now either people are spending considerably more or the player base is still pretty large.

BlueZone.4236:

Anyway, here’s my real gripe with people uttering ‘expansion’, however this is a bit of a lose-lose situation.
My opinion is the rage that happened currently is partly caused by this parroting of false hope of some “big” content that’s supposedly cooking for god knows how long (and yes the ragers themselves are to blame, obviously).
People keep saying it and it’ll be a disappointment when it comes.
Don’t say anything and people wonder what’s going on.
Parroting the false hope whilst content is being drip fed…you get to where we are now. People snap. It was inevitable, in my opinion.

Well I dont think anyone ever brings up the big content cooking / potentially expansion in development out of the blues, its always in reply to statements arguing how little content Gw2 releases now that it launched. Ergo we’re not building false hope per-se we’re trying to salvage disrepair so to speak.

BlueZone.4236:

What we do know is the teams have been restructured/changed at least 3 times. Sorry, I don’t have links since a lot of it is old info and it’ll take too long to fish them again.
First was shifting from GW2 release to the idea of doing Living Story (monthly content at the time, I think).
2nd was after the whole fence repairing living story backlash (ramped up to 2 week cadence).
3rd was transition from living story season 1 to season 2.

I think the biggest show stoppers occurred around the first two restructure.

Whether it’s big enough to explain the discrepancy, maybe, maybe not.
In a big company, people can fall into the cracks avoiding detection that they’re doing nothing, as well. :P
The only projects that really matter are the ones closest to crunch time and the rest don’t need to be held accountable.

Well as far as we know its just the living story team that restructured 3 times, dont think they ever said anything about anyone else and the living story team is pretty small just 20 people. The restructuring where not negative either I think we’ll both agree that living story kept getting progressively better and its currently pretty good especially when compared to the first few episodes of season 1.

Can some procrastinate and avoid detection. Sure no doubt. But we’re talking about over 75% less productivity here.

5 per year vs 2 zone which have the size of 1 regular zone
about 5 dungeon paths per year vs. 2 or 3
8 jumping puzzles per year vs 2 or 3
300 dynamic events per year vs … well less

I dont know obviously but this cant all be the result of inefficiencies and procrastination, its just way too much.

The affectionately named MMO locusts came and left. That’s my explanation for the initial high concurrency yet same gem store revenue. They weren’t going to pay anyway, but the nonlocust do. As much as I hate the gemstore, it works.

Here’s what you missed regarding the maps.
Eotm, kessex + tower, queen’s pav, lions arch redo, zephyr cliff (can’t remember the name).
I think fractals is there somewhere…
and I think the holiday stuff was counted as a separate team (I remember that was named as a team outside of the living story initially).
FYI, I suspect the maps themselves were developed by the separate team (because it takes longer to develop) then the living story team dumps their story content onto those maps.

Sorry, but I feel they are all accounted for or close enough to not have an expansion working in the background.
I’m sure someone’s gonna say ‘hey that sounds like an expansion worth of content’, but they’re missing other stuff and that’s a different argument anyway (too tired to write anymore).

Vayne.8563:

First of all, EotM was a big project, there’s no question about it. Anyone who doesn’t think it was a big project isn’t someone I’d even bother debating. Because it wouldn’t be worth it. It was a major undertaking. There’s a lot going on there.

Drytop is also a big project and we haven’t seen the whole map yet. Again, if you don’t think its’ a big project, that’s fine. Everyone can make up their own mind.

But you see, EotM has been finished for a long time and so the devs that worked on that would in theory be working on other stuff. Because you know, they don’t just stand there after their big project is done. Same with other big projects, including the wardrobe and megaserver. Those are projects done. Those people move on.

So Anet had said at an interview they had about seven teams working on big projects.

I know you don’t like the game and you want to belittle everything done, but in reality you don’t really know anything more than anyone else about what’s going on in the background.

Anet could have been working towards an expansion for two years, squirreling away stuff the whole time. You really have no idea.

But it means that between those expansions the content we’re getting is pretty kitten ed good, even if some people don’t appreciate it.

I hate saying it, but… I think after 2 years… The basic game is what it is. There may be refinements done, but I sincerely doubt that there will be major changes done to the game.

4/15 QoL patch was a Huge change considering …but i sincerely doubt that if players are looking for things to be taken out, added, or adjusted…. it will be little tweaks, not huge adjustments.

I think that players need to ask themselves." Do I Like the game as it is? Can I play it and enjoy it, if Not a single one of the changes i’d like to see is ever implemented?"

Not saying stop advocating for those changes by any means. But Maybe best if we all start from the premise that those anticipated changes, if they never come, that is as intended, so if they do come..they are an awesome surprise.

Maybe those players that answered “no.” may want to consider that Gw2 is not the game they want to spend their time on, and may never be that game. Nothing wrong with that. I have started playing MMO’s i discovered i could not stand myself. Instead of wasting My time, Playing and making post after post saying " I want this…I want that." even with the best of intentions, i just assumed it would be best to move on.

I don’t know Nerelith.

I think we WILL see major changes. I mean only four months ago, we saw major changes. To think that will never happen again, because it hasn’t happened in four months is a bit odd. Do you think it was a one off?

I suspect there will be big changes…but not on our schedule. On Anet’s schedule.

BlueZone.4236:

The affectionately named MMO locusts came and left. That’s my explanation for the initial high concurrency yet same gem store revenue. They weren’t going to pay anyway, but the nonlocust do. As much as I hate the gemstore, it works.

Yes you’re right there, its very possible there was a decline in the demographic of players who dont use the cash shop.

BlueZone.4236:

Here’s what you missed regarding the maps.
Eotm, kessex + tower, queen’s pav, lions arch redo, zephyr cliff (can’t remember the name).

I did count EOTM and Zephy.. (maps EOTM, Zephyr, Southsun and Dry top) 2, 1/2 sized zones per year
I didnt count the queen pav, forgot about that one you’re right.. then again to be fair thats not even 1/2 a zone but still counts.

Kessex hills and LA are interesting cases. They took a lot of work to do no doubt but no were close to creating a map from scratch. A lot of work,design, topology, map texturing, etc.. was already done. They did have to create a lot of new models, add particle effects and events though so lets say them and pavilion together make 1 full zone effort it would still be 5 zones vs 1.5.. (the 5 zones prior to launch is already pretty conservative because obviously they didnt start creating zones on day 1. They had to design stuff, build tools, work on the engine and then start creating zones)

I think fractals is there somewhere…
and I think the holiday stuff was counted as a separate team (I remember that was named as a team outside of the living story initially).
FYI, I suspect the maps themselves were developed by the separate team (because it takes longer to develop) then the living story team dumps their story content onto those maps.

BlueZone.4236:

Sorry, but I feel they are all accounted for or close enough to not have an expansion working in the background.
I’m sure someone’s gonna say ‘hey that sounds like an expansion worth of content’, but they’re missing other stuff and that’s a different argument anyway (too tired to write anymore).

Well thats pretty natural I’d say. it cannot be they did a lot of work and very little work at the same time.

@Nerelith

Disagree with you there. Anet has repeately shown they dont mind doing big changes when they agree they’re good for the game.

Ascended gear, Wallet, Wardrobe, Mega Server, Living World Journal are just some examples of radical changes to phylosofy and/or game mechanics. And they’ve been happening since the start.

Its also the reason why so many people feel like the game has no direction. That doesnt happen because of a conservative developer that sticks to their original design. It happens because the developer isnt afraid to experiment.

Vayne.8563:

Zardul.3952:

Just face the facts. This game ain’t doing well,
I’m tired of the problems.
I’ll give it until the new WoW expansion is released.

In sure it’s not the developers fault and may be that they are restricted and controlled by managers or ncsoft.

So why should I suffer with them when I could play a game that’s thriving ?

Facts? lmao

The fact is, according to the NCsoft quarterly report, the game is doing well. According to both Overwolf and Raptr, the game is doing well. According to logic (since they’re hiring not firing) the game is doing well.

On what do you base your “fact”?

I’m pretty sure I just read that WoW lost 2 million subscribers in a very short period of time. That’s about a loss of 25% of their player base.

Maybe you need to do a bit of research before quoting “facts”.

Time for us to embrace new definitions. “Not doing well” equals Hiring new employees."Thriving " = losing 25 % of your player-base.

The thing is, they put the whole game out in, what 5-6 years? With 25 Zones and Dungeons and the need to do everthing, from gameplay to graphics and who knows what else..

And now they need a year for a single zone?
…….
Well, maybe they are already working on gw3 or something..

GreenAlien.5623:

The thing is, they put the whole game out in, what 5-6 years? With 25 Zones and Dungeons and the need to do everthing, from gameplay to graphics and who knows what else..

And now they need a year for a single zone?
…….
Well, maybe they are already working on gw3 or something..

Or an expansion, maybe? lol

Personally I think the game is on the right track. I believe the issue isn’t the game, it’s the player-base.

On average the player-base … seems to come across as … for lack of a better word…entitled.

it seems that players feel they are owed something. And if they do not get what they feel they are owed…they complain vociferously.

All we are owed is access to the servers, and we get that. Everything else is frosting. Extra.

I Just wonder why players can’t just enjoy what we have.

Instead it seems to me, we have a LOT of players out there with game design degrees and educations that Know everything about how to make a Game work. Which begs the question. Why are they not out there developing their own game?

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

I’m pretty sure I just read that WoW lost 2 million subscribers in a very short period of time. That’s about a loss of 25% of their player base.

Maybe you need to do a bit of research before quoting “facts”.

Anet too scared to release actual data dont’ make them any better.

You are pointing your finger at companies who actually release info, compare to a company who is too scared to release any info.

As a public company BOTH games release info and I’m surprised you’re not aware of it. But since Anet doesn’t have subscriptions, it can’t release subscriber numbers, which should come as no surprise to anyone.

It releases profit statements. WoW doesn’t release that it lost 2 million subscribers because they’re brave. They have to release that information by law to their subscribers or they can be sued. They have no real choice.

Anet also releases quarterly reports to their investors, so anyone can see how much profit this game makes.

It’s massively entertaining to me that anyone would think that Blizzard releases figures because they’re somehow braver than another company.

It’s not said by me. Colin Johanson says in one of his video, the marketing team don’t want to release those info.

I can’t remember the exact quote. Basically I think it is a video talking about one of the patch. And Colin Johanson says something like the population number is looking great. But the exact population number is something the marking dont’ want to disclose.

I’m not sure why you keep bashing all the game on the market. Quite honestly, I’m not sure if GW2 quarterly sales is better than some of the game you bashed before. Because some of those games have premium and a large percent of people actually subscribe.

Nerelith.7360:

Vayne.8563:

Zardul.3952:

Just face the facts. This game ain’t doing well,
I’m tired of the problems.
I’ll give it until the new WoW expansion is released.

In sure it’s not the developers fault and may be that they are restricted and controlled by managers or ncsoft.

So why should I suffer with them when I could play a game that’s thriving ?

Facts? lmao

The fact is, according to the NCsoft quarterly report, the game is doing well. According to both Overwolf and Raptr, the game is doing well. According to logic (since they’re hiring not firing) the game is doing well.

On what do you base your “fact”?

I’m pretty sure I just read that WoW lost 2 million subscribers in a very short period of time. That’s about a loss of 25% of their player base.

Maybe you need to do a bit of research before quoting “facts”.

Time for us to embrace new definitions. “Not doing well” equals Hiring new employees."Thriving " = losing 25 % of your player-base.

I’m not picking side. But quite honestly judging from the percentage of people who have “very very very low” AP point looking at the AP board. It’s not exactly like GW2 have great retention rate.

Though I understand that is expected, since many people just want to try the game to see if they like, and many actually don’t enjoy GW2 when they tried so they quit the game. But in the long run, I think GW2 retention rate should be decent, because there is no monthly fee.

Vayne.8563:

Zardul.3952:

Just face the facts. This game ain’t doing well,
I’m tired of the problems.
I’ll give it until the new WoW expansion is released.

In sure it’s not the developers fault and may be that they are restricted and controlled by managers or ncsoft.

So why should I suffer with them when I could play a game that’s thriving ?

Facts? lmao

The fact is, according to the NCsoft quarterly report, the game is doing well. According to both Overwolf and Raptr, the game is doing well. According to logic (since they’re hiring not firing) the game is doing well.

On what do you base your “fact”?

I’m pretty sure I just read that WoW lost 2 million subscribers in a very short period of time. That’s about a loss of 25% of their player base.

Maybe you need to do a bit of research before quoting “facts”.

Warcraft lost remotely around 800k last I checked, Not Also making more money than they were with those players. Before also trying to start to do some research, Practice what you preach.

None the less. I agree. Guild Wars is doing fine and thriving just as well. May not make as much money but in terms they’re doing well. Just hope they last for a long time

BlueZone.4236:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Lol. If they didn’t hold back on things they developed, what would they release in an expansion? Are you saying they would just spend two days working on an expansion, and then release it? Or were you wanting them to announce they would begin work on an expansion, and then spend a year or two working on it, and not release anything else?

I mean, it would have to be one or the other, would it not? I’m sooo confused.

Hey there, late response here.
Your confusion lies in your assumption in an expansion.
My assumption is that’s not true and that they’ve been folding their “big” projects (long term projects) in the existing living world content, like they said they might do.

Ha ha. I never said they were making an expansion. I have no idea, nor do I care one way or the other. What I was responding to was the notion that if they were working on an expansion, they would not be holding that content back. If they released expansion content every few days, weeks, months, what would there be left to release on ‘Expansion Day’? So funny.