Guild Wars 2

Galen Grey.4709:

Well thats pretty natural I’d say. it cannot be they did a lot of work and very little work at the same time.

It depends. As you say, comparing content per year on released content vs what we got, something feels missing.
However, I believe in terms of their teams, they can be accounted for in the Living World development structure (as I said before, I believe the non-Living World stuff are folded into the Living World release). There can be a million reasons why they aren’t producing as much. I also think what’s stopping them from releasing content as much as release is the lack of real direction and redoing things.

The other problem is the fact they spent so much resource/focus on temporary content, hence they don’t have as much to show for returning players. However, they took an awfully long time to realize this. The fact they will have to allocate resources to redevelop season 1 stuff to get it into the replayable/journal format, that’s more time spent looking like they aren’t doing new content to players who already played through that content.

Is the content getting better? Yes, and that’s because taking breaks, ie. status quo remains in place on the quality vs quantity spectrum.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

BlueZone.4236:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Lol. If they didn’t hold back on things they developed, what would they release in an expansion? Are you saying they would just spend two days working on an expansion, and then release it? Or were you wanting them to announce they would begin work on an expansion, and then spend a year or two working on it, and not release anything else?

I mean, it would have to be one or the other, would it not? I’m sooo confused.

Hey there, late response here.
Your confusion lies in your assumption in an expansion.
My assumption is that’s not true and that they’ve been folding their “big” projects (long term projects) in the existing living world content, like they said they might do.

Ha ha. I never said they were making an expansion. I have no idea, nor do I care one way or the other. What I was responding to was the notion that if they were working on an expansion, they would not be holding that content back. If they released expansion content every few days, weeks, months, what would there be left to release on ‘Expansion Day’? So funny.

Oh, my bad for misunderstanding. That’s pretty much my thoughts, as well.

Imperial Thor.5487:

Vayne.8563:

Zardul.3952:

Just face the facts. This game ain’t doing well,
I’m tired of the problems.
I’ll give it until the new WoW expansion is released.

In sure it’s not the developers fault and may be that they are restricted and controlled by managers or ncsoft.

So why should I suffer with them when I could play a game that’s thriving ?

Facts? lmao

The fact is, according to the NCsoft quarterly report, the game is doing well. According to both Overwolf and Raptr, the game is doing well. According to logic (since they’re hiring not firing) the game is doing well.

On what do you base your “fact”?

I’m pretty sure I just read that WoW lost 2 million subscribers in a very short period of time. That’s about a loss of 25% of their player base.

Maybe you need to do a bit of research before quoting “facts”.

Warcraft lost remotely around 800k last I checked, Not Also making more money than they were with those players. Before also trying to start to do some research, Practice what you preach.

None the less. I agree. Guild Wars is doing fine and thriving just as well. May not make as much money but in terms they’re doing well. Just hope they last for a long time

My quote was 2 million players in a relatively short period of time, not the last quarter. Not so long ago, they were at 8.3 million now they’re at 6.4 million. That’s a pretty big drop.

They lost 800 subscribes in three months. You’ll notice I said a relatively short period of time not three months. Instead of accusing me of not doing research, you should read more carefully. A relatively short period of time isn’t referring to one quarter. It’s referring to what has been a consistent downslide.

Vayne.8563:

Imperial Thor.5487:

Vayne.8563:

Zardul.3952:

Just face the facts. This game ain’t doing well,
I’m tired of the problems.
I’ll give it until the new WoW expansion is released.

In sure it’s not the developers fault and may be that they are restricted and controlled by managers or ncsoft.

So why should I suffer with them when I could play a game that’s thriving ?

Facts? lmao

The fact is, according to the NCsoft quarterly report, the game is doing well. According to both Overwolf and Raptr, the game is doing well. According to logic (since they’re hiring not firing) the game is doing well.

On what do you base your “fact”?

I’m pretty sure I just read that WoW lost 2 million subscribers in a very short period of time. That’s about a loss of 25% of their player base.

Maybe you need to do a bit of research before quoting “facts”.

Warcraft lost remotely around 800k last I checked, Not Also making more money than they were with those players. Before also trying to start to do some research, Practice what you preach.

None the less. I agree. Guild Wars is doing fine and thriving just as well. May not make as much money but in terms they’re doing well. Just hope they last for a long time

My quote was 2 million players in a relatively short period of time, not the last quarter. Not so long ago, they were at 8.3 million now they’re at 6.4 million. That’s a pretty big drop.

They lost 800 subscribes in three months. You’ll notice I said a relatively short period of time not three months. Instead of accusing me of not doing research, you should read more carefully. A relatively short period of time isn’t referring to one quarter. It’s referring to what has been a consistent downslide.

I’ll give you that, You did say relatively short time, Doesn’t mean you’re referring to quarter or longer. Could help to be more detailed unless it’s just over my head.

I honesty don’t see what playbase has anything to do with a game thriving or not. Even if a game is making more money with smaller or larger players. They’re thriving. They won’t stop thriving until they’re not longer making a profit from the costs to run the game.

Bringing up it’s declining playerbase was a moot point. However at the same time, I don’t believe Guild Wars is declining. It did, It got more people after awhile and balanced out. It’ll lose more players but it’ll still make profits, And it’ll bring more people in with new content at some point because it’s around.

Regardless. Just to annoy you a little more. Add dueling. Add it. It’s not going to kill you Vayne. : P

Imperial Thor.5487:

Vayne.8563:

Imperial Thor.5487:

Vayne.8563:

Zardul.3952:

Just face the facts. This game ain’t doing well,
I’m tired of the problems.
I’ll give it until the new WoW expansion is released.

In sure it’s not the developers fault and may be that they are restricted and controlled by managers or ncsoft.

So why should I suffer with them when I could play a game that’s thriving ?

Facts? lmao

The fact is, according to the NCsoft quarterly report, the game is doing well. According to both Overwolf and Raptr, the game is doing well. According to logic (since they’re hiring not firing) the game is doing well.

On what do you base your “fact”?

I’m pretty sure I just read that WoW lost 2 million subscribers in a very short period of time. That’s about a loss of 25% of their player base.

Maybe you need to do a bit of research before quoting “facts”.

Warcraft lost remotely around 800k last I checked, Not Also making more money than they were with those players. Before also trying to start to do some research, Practice what you preach.

None the less. I agree. Guild Wars is doing fine and thriving just as well. May not make as much money but in terms they’re doing well. Just hope they last for a long time

My quote was 2 million players in a relatively short period of time, not the last quarter. Not so long ago, they were at 8.3 million now they’re at 6.4 million. That’s a pretty big drop.

They lost 800 subscribes in three months. You’ll notice I said a relatively short period of time not three months. Instead of accusing me of not doing research, you should read more carefully. A relatively short period of time isn’t referring to one quarter. It’s referring to what has been a consistent downslide.

I’ll give you that, You did say relatively short time, Doesn’t mean you’re referring to quarter or longer. Could help to be more detailed unless it’s just over my head.

I honesty don’t see what playbase has anything to do with a game thriving or not. Even if a game is making more money with smaller or larger players. They’re thriving. They won’t stop thriving until they’re not longer making a profit from the costs to run the game.

Bringing up it’s declining playerbase was a moot point. However at the same time, I don’t believe Guild Wars is declining. It did, It got more people after awhile and balanced out. It’ll lose more players but it’ll still make profits, And it’ll bring more people in with new content at some point because it’s around.

Regardless. Just to annoy you a little more. Add dueling. Add it. It’s not going to kill you Vayne. : P

It’s not really a moot point if they’ve lost a quarter of their player base this year. That’s a big thing. Because someone was saying how their new game is going to take all the Guild Wars 2 players away. I was pointing that out as a response.

The reason I didn’t put a number, is because I was too lazy to look up exactly how long it was. That’s why I generalize. This isn’t a thesis. No one is paying me to write it. It’s a causal statement off the top of my head with relevant information.

I don’t need to specific because the point doesn’t change with or without that number. I didn’t say a short period of time, I said a relatively short period of time. Shrugs.

As for dueling, I get plenty of that right here, thanks. lol

Just so people know what “short” means, Q1 2013 which is where 8.3 million comes from.
Q2 2014 is where 6.3 million was stated (EDIT: We’re in the Q3 2014 right now, silly me).

The drop isn’t sharp, it’s following the expected trend of how all games behave in its lifetime (the shape, not the time frame), and is expected tail off slowly or until Blizzard pulls the plug.

Wow is having their 5th expansion soon right?

I think their subscriber always fall off before expansion time.

That being said, I’m not sure how much GW2 is taking Wow’s player in China. Being buy 2 play should be pretty big for country’s with lower income.

Zardul.3952:

Just face the facts. This game ain’t doing well,
I’m tired of the problems.
I’ll give it until the new WoW expansion is released.

In sure it’s not the developers fault and may be that they are restricted and controlled by managers or ncsoft.

So why should I suffer with them when I could play a game that’s thriving ?

Eh, do what you like, man. As for the game not doing well, I beg to differ. So far, it’s doing okay. Nothing spectacular but it’s got the things I wanted in an MMO that other MMOs have failed to give me and I am okay with that.

laokoko.7403:

Wow is having their 5th expansion soon right?

I think their subscriber always fall off before expansion time.

That being said, I’m not sure how much GW2 is taking Wow’s player in China. Being buy 2 play should be pretty big for country’s with lower income.

Cataclysm (expansion 3) is when the subscriptions peaked and started falling.
Subscription was always on the increase prior to that (except maybe during WotLK where there’s a bunch of missing data).
However, it is expected the next expansion will jump them up a bit.

I, too, would be interested to know how China’s fairing. Only thing we’ve heard from them is that number of characters estimate…
I think I remember reading somewhere exploits in WvW is much worst over there, though. I remember seeing an image of a stairway of golems or something like that.

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people know what “short” means, Q1 2013 which is where 8.3 million comes from.
Q2 2014 is where 6.3 million was stated (EDIT: We’re in the Q3 2014 right now, silly me).

The drop isn’t sharp, it’s following the expected trend of how all games behave in its lifetime (the shape, not the time frame), and is expected tail off slowly or until Blizzard pulls the plug.

I guess the stock holders know more than you, because they’re selling. It’s funny that when GW 2 does 25% less in profit, it’s okay for people to say it’s dying because you don’t like where the game is going,. but when it happens to another game, you’re happy to defend it.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people know what “short” means, Q1 2013 which is where 8.3 million comes from.
Q2 2014 is where 6.3 million was stated (EDIT: We’re in the Q3 2014 right now, silly me).

The drop isn’t sharp, it’s following the expected trend of how all games behave in its lifetime (the shape, not the time frame), and is expected tail off slowly or until Blizzard pulls the plug.

I guess the stock holders know more than you, because they’re selling. It’s funny that when GW 2 does 25% less in profit, it’s okay for people to say it’s dying because you don’t like where the game is going,. but when it happens to another game, you’re happy to defend it.

How is stating facts defending them?
Here’s the “attack” on WoW. That game’s dying because it has peaked and still following the expected life trend of a game.
Jesus, so much bias against me.

Honestly I don’t think they’re working on something big . . . yet. I think they want to get people around and prepared before they start a big project. Not that there’s any shortage of minor projects they still have to work on . . . perfect to sic new blood on to get them up to speed on working with the game.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people know what “short” means, Q1 2013 which is where 8.3 million comes from.
Q2 2014 is where 6.3 million was stated (EDIT: We’re in the Q3 2014 right now, silly me).

The drop isn’t sharp, it’s following the expected trend of how all games behave in its lifetime (the shape, not the time frame), and is expected tail off slowly or until Blizzard pulls the plug.

I guess the stock holders know more than you, because they’re selling. It’s funny that when GW 2 does 25% less in profit, it’s okay for people to say it’s dying because you don’t like where the game is going,. but when it happens to another game, you’re happy to defend it.

How is stating facts defending them?
Here’s the “attack” on WoW. That game’s dying because it has peaked and still following the expected life trend of a game.
Jesus, so much bias against me.

It’s not bias. I made a statement that in a relatively short amount of time the game has lost a lot of people. If I’d bothered to look it up, I could have used 800,000 in one quarter, which is a big percentage, even for WoW. The main point of my post is that WoW is bleeding subscribers.

Here’s a link to an article from Time Magazine ( http://time.com/3086189/world-warcraft-subscribers/ )

In the article you’ll find this quote from a WoW executive.

But when Blizzard president Mike Morhaime took his turn on the call, he admitted the company’s juggernaut MMO, World of Warcraft, has continued to hemorrhage subscribers.

If the company’s president can admit WoW is “hemorrhaging” subscribers, why is what I said so unreasonable? Blizzard knows it.

People are moving away from WoW because the game is aging. Because they don’t do frequent content updates. Because the nature of the player base is changing. Because new games are coming out. The bottom line is, my conversation is in response to a poster who thinks WoW is doing great and Guild Wars 2 isn’t.

It’s a perfect legit response, no matter how you try to edit it.

well, have you compare wow revenue compare to gw2?

I’m not sure why you keep bashing a game which make much much more money than gw2.

Regardless on how much less subscriber they have, they are still much much more than gw2.

laokoko.7403:

well, have you compare wow revenue compare to gw2?

I’m not sure why you keep bashing a game which make much much more money than gw2.

Regardless on how much less subscriber they have, they are still much much more than gw2.

I didn’t bash WoW. I made a statement defending Guild Wars 2 against someone who bashed Guild Wars 2 in favor of WoW, on a Guild Wars 2 forum. Now if you didn’t have bias, you’d be admonishing that guy, and not the guy kittenponded to him with now a quote from the president of Blizzard saying they’re bleeding subs.

Now, it’s true that WOW is going to make more money in that time period than Guild Wars 2, just as McDonalds makes more money than the steakhouse around the corner from my old place of business, which was awesome. It’s much better than McDonalds, but it will never make as much money.

The point is that I responded to an unreasonable post, and the people who don’t like this game are perfectly willing to come out against my perfectly normal response, and they’re just as perfectly willing to ignore the post I was responding too, which was, if not demonstrably wrong, at least very very easy to question.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people know what “short” means, Q1 2013 which is where 8.3 million comes from.
Q2 2014 is where 6.3 million was stated (EDIT: We’re in the Q3 2014 right now, silly me).

The drop isn’t sharp, it’s following the expected trend of how all games behave in its lifetime (the shape, not the time frame), and is expected tail off slowly or until Blizzard pulls the plug.

I guess the stock holders know more than you, because they’re selling. It’s funny that when GW 2 does 25% less in profit, it’s okay for people to say it’s dying because you don’t like where the game is going,. but when it happens to another game, you’re happy to defend it.

How is stating facts defending them?
Here’s the “attack” on WoW. That game’s dying because it has peaked and still following the expected life trend of a game.
Jesus, so much bias against me.

It’s not bias. I made a statement that in a relatively short amount of time the game has lost a lot of people. If I’d bothered to look it up, I could have used 800,000 in one quarter, which is a big percentage, even for WoW. The main point of my post is that WoW is bleeding subscribers.

Here’s a link to an article from Time Magazine ( http://time.com/3086189/world-warcraft-subscribers/ )

In the article you’ll find this quote from a WoW executive.

But when Blizzard president Mike Morhaime took his turn on the call, he admitted the company’s juggernaut MMO, World of Warcraft, has continued to hemorrhage subscribers.

If the company’s president can admit WoW is “hemorrhaging” subscribers, why is what I said so unreasonable? Blizzard knows it.

People are moving away from WoW because the game is aging. Because they don’t do frequent content updates. Because the nature of the player base is changing. Because new games are coming out. The bottom line is, my conversation is in response to a poster who thinks WoW is doing great and Guild Wars 2 isn’t.

It’s a perfect legit response, no matter how you try to edit it.

Do you know how to distinguish between subjective words and facts? I was putting “short” into perspective. Funny how you don’t like when others puts your subjective words into perspective. A litte too funny.

I love how you imagine me saying WoW isn’t bleeding, or how I supposedly edited something to mean…I have no idea what, you’ll need to make up more things to tell your fanbase what I did.
Do I really need to quote my UNEDITED posts within this thread to prove you wrong about my so called defense?

FYI, the only edit I made was correcting myself from saying we’re in Q2 2014 to Q3 2014. But you needed to make me look bad in front of your fanbase, so I completely understand.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people know what “short” means, Q1 2013 which is where 8.3 million comes from.
Q2 2014 is where 6.3 million was stated (EDIT: We’re in the Q3 2014 right now, silly me).

The drop isn’t sharp, it’s following the expected trend of how all games behave in its lifetime (the shape, not the time frame), and is expected tail off slowly or until Blizzard pulls the plug.

I guess the stock holders know more than you, because they’re selling. It’s funny that when GW 2 does 25% less in profit, it’s okay for people to say it’s dying because you don’t like where the game is going,. but when it happens to another game, you’re happy to defend it.

How is stating facts defending them?
Here’s the “attack” on WoW. That game’s dying because it has peaked and still following the expected life trend of a game.
Jesus, so much bias against me.

It’s not bias. I made a statement that in a relatively short amount of time the game has lost a lot of people. If I’d bothered to look it up, I could have used 800,000 in one quarter, which is a big percentage, even for WoW. The main point of my post is that WoW is bleeding subscribers.

Here’s a link to an article from Time Magazine ( http://time.com/3086189/world-warcraft-subscribers/ )

In the article you’ll find this quote from a WoW executive.

But when Blizzard president Mike Morhaime took his turn on the call, he admitted the company’s juggernaut MMO, World of Warcraft, has continued to hemorrhage subscribers.

If the company’s president can admit WoW is “hemorrhaging” subscribers, why is what I said so unreasonable? Blizzard knows it.

People are moving away from WoW because the game is aging. Because they don’t do frequent content updates. Because the nature of the player base is changing. Because new games are coming out. The bottom line is, my conversation is in response to a poster who thinks WoW is doing great and Guild Wars 2 isn’t.

It’s a perfect legit response, no matter how you try to edit it.

Do you know how to distinguish between subjective words and facts? I was putting “short” into perspective. Funny how you don’t like when others puts your subjective words into perspective. A litte too funny.

I love how you imagine me saying WoW isn’t bleeding, or how I supposedly edited something to mean…I have no idea what, you’ll need to make up more things to tell your fanbase what I did.
Do I really need to quote my UNEDITED posts within this thread to prove you wrong about my so called defense?

FYI, the only edit I made was correcting myself from saying we’re in Q2 2014 to Q3 2014. But you needed to make me look bad in front of your fanbase, so I completely understand.

Did you bother to contradict the person I was responding to. Because if you did, I didn’t see it. His comments were way off kilter, but you felt you could just let those go. My comments were a bit off kilter and you couldn’t let that go. That’s almost the very definition of bias.

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

well, have you compare wow revenue compare to gw2?

I’m not sure why you keep bashing a game which make much much more money than gw2.

Regardless on how much less subscriber they have, they are still much much more than gw2.

I didn’t bash WoW. I made a statement defending Guild Wars 2 against someone who bashed Guild Wars 2 in favor of WoW, on a Guild Wars 2 forum. Now if you didn’t have bias, you’d be admonishing that guy, and not the guy kittenponded to him with now a quote from the president of Blizzard saying they’re bleeding subs.

Now, it’s true that WOW is going to make more money in that time period than Guild Wars 2, just as McDonalds makes more money than the steakhouse around the corner from my old place of business, which was awesome. It’s much better than McDonalds, but it will never make as much money.

The point is that I responded to an unreasonable post, and the people who don’t like this game are perfectly willing to come out against my perfectly normal response, and they’re just as perfectly willing to ignore the post I was responding too, which was, if not demonstrably wrong, at least very very easy to question.

ya but even if GW2 is having lesser concurrent players each quarter, there is no way to know it.

I dont’ even play wow. If I’m bias, I’d be in favor of GW2.

I’ve seen all kinds of numbers thrown around about ANet staff size back in the GW days. The average of these guesstimates is about 50. Current staff size seems to be between 300-350. Is the current game 6-7 times more complex? It’s surely prettier (except in combats, which are the ugliest I’ve seen in any game I’ve played). It’s surely designed to allow more people to play the same thing.

The GW team pumped out two additional campaigns in about 18 months, and an expansion roughly a year later. Now, maybe the content added to GW2 (some of which was later subtracted) is equivalent to or more than what was added to GW. Since I don’t know what is required now versus what was required then, I’m not prepared to judge. It sure doesn’t feel like it, though.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’ve seen all kinds of numbers thrown around about ANet staff size back in the GW days. The average of these guesstimates is about 50. Current staff size seems to be between 300-350. Is the current game 6-7 times more complex? It’s surely prettier (except in combats, which are the ugliest I’ve seen in any game I’ve played). It’s surely designed to allow more people to play the same thing.

The GW team pumped out two additional campaigns in about 18 months, and an expansion roughly a year later. Now, maybe the content added to GW2 (some of which was later subtracted) is equivalent to or more than what was added to GW. Since I don’t know what is required now versus what was required then, I’m not prepared to judge. It sure doesn’t feel like it, though.

Adding stuff to MMOs is far more complicated than adding stuff to lobby games, for a whole lot of reasons.

Guild Wars 1 didn’t have to deal with stuff like downscaling either, which is an issue. It certainly didn’t have to deal with events interacting with each other. It didn’t have to deal as much with griefers, since you were usually bringing people with you who you wanted to go with you. It didn’t have to deal with balancing the content for one person or fifty, with different party compositions. Repawn rate adjustments. Lag from too many people in one area.

An instanced environment is far easier to control than an open world environment.

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

well, have you compare wow revenue compare to gw2?

I’m not sure why you keep bashing a game which make much much more money than gw2.

Regardless on how much less subscriber they have, they are still much much more than gw2.

I didn’t bash WoW. I made a statement defending Guild Wars 2 against someone who bashed Guild Wars 2 in favor of WoW, on a Guild Wars 2 forum. Now if you didn’t have bias, you’d be admonishing that guy, and not the guy kittenponded to him with now a quote from the president of Blizzard saying they’re bleeding subs.

Now, it’s true that WOW is going to make more money in that time period than Guild Wars 2, just as McDonalds makes more money than the steakhouse around the corner from my old place of business, which was awesome. It’s much better than McDonalds, but it will never make as much money.

The point is that I responded to an unreasonable post, and the people who don’t like this game are perfectly willing to come out against my perfectly normal response, and they’re just as perfectly willing to ignore the post I was responding too, which was, if not demonstrably wrong, at least very very easy to question.

ya but even if GW2 is having lesser concurrent players each quarter, there is no way to know it.

I dont’ even play wow. If I’m bias, I’d be in favor of GW2.

I’m pretty sure if there is bias, it’s not against Guild Wars 2. It’s against me.

Again, I was responding to someone. I didn’t come into this thread and say WoW is bleeding players out of the blue. I never would have done that. I’m retorting to someone who’s claiming it’s very successful and Guild Wars 2 isn’t. No matter what Guild Wars 2 is doing, when company president says it’s bleeding subscribers, that’s not something that said lightly or easily. It’s something you have to say.

Guild Wars 2 can’t be compared directly to WoW because buy to play games are in a different category than subscription games. Completely different story. But saying that would just make the original poster look right.

Guild Wars 2 has it’s challenges and WoW has it’s challenges. I wasn’t knocking WoW.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people know what “short” means, Q1 2013 which is where 8.3 million comes from.
Q2 2014 is where 6.3 million was stated (EDIT: We’re in the Q3 2014 right now, silly me).

The drop isn’t sharp, it’s following the expected trend of how all games behave in its lifetime (the shape, not the time frame), and is expected tail off slowly or until Blizzard pulls the plug.

I guess the stock holders know more than you, because they’re selling. It’s funny that when GW 2 does 25% less in profit, it’s okay for people to say it’s dying because you don’t like where the game is going,. but when it happens to another game, you’re happy to defend it.

How is stating facts defending them?
Here’s the “attack” on WoW. That game’s dying because it has peaked and still following the expected life trend of a game.
Jesus, so much bias against me.

It’s not bias. I made a statement that in a relatively short amount of time the game has lost a lot of people. If I’d bothered to look it up, I could have used 800,000 in one quarter, which is a big percentage, even for WoW. The main point of my post is that WoW is bleeding subscribers.

Here’s a link to an article from Time Magazine ( http://time.com/3086189/world-warcraft-subscribers/ )

In the article you’ll find this quote from a WoW executive.

But when Blizzard president Mike Morhaime took his turn on the call, he admitted the company’s juggernaut MMO, World of Warcraft, has continued to hemorrhage subscribers.

If the company’s president can admit WoW is “hemorrhaging” subscribers, why is what I said so unreasonable? Blizzard knows it.

People are moving away from WoW because the game is aging. Because they don’t do frequent content updates. Because the nature of the player base is changing. Because new games are coming out. The bottom line is, my conversation is in response to a poster who thinks WoW is doing great and Guild Wars 2 isn’t.

It’s a perfect legit response, no matter how you try to edit it.

Do you know how to distinguish between subjective words and facts? I was putting “short” into perspective. Funny how you don’t like when others puts your subjective words into perspective. A litte too funny.

I love how you imagine me saying WoW isn’t bleeding, or how I supposedly edited something to mean…I have no idea what, you’ll need to make up more things to tell your fanbase what I did.
Do I really need to quote my UNEDITED posts within this thread to prove you wrong about my so called defense?

FYI, the only edit I made was correcting myself from saying we’re in Q2 2014 to Q3 2014. But you needed to make me look bad in front of your fanbase, so I completely understand.

Did you bother to contradict the person I was responding to. Because if you did, I didn’t see it. His comments were way off kilter, but you felt you could just let those go. My comments were a bit off kilter and you couldn’t let that go. That’s almost the very definition of bias.

I thought we weren’t into repeating what other people have mentioned? Or was that a lie?

Have you ever rolled an Assassin and played PvP? You seem good at character assassination.

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people know what “short” means, Q1 2013 which is where 8.3 million comes from.
Q2 2014 is where 6.3 million was stated (EDIT: We’re in the Q3 2014 right now, silly me).

The drop isn’t sharp, it’s following the expected trend of how all games behave in its lifetime (the shape, not the time frame), and is expected tail off slowly or until Blizzard pulls the plug.

Actually, reported sub numbers for WoW is about half what it was a few years ago, and that’s even if you don’t believe the claims they use accounting tricks to inflate the numbers.

It’s not unexpected, but with the ever-increasing competition from other MMOs and similar online games, especially the games that dropped their sub requirements or launched without subs. It’s assumed that there will be a percentage of players who move on from these games, and others who unsub and come back for expansions, but there’s writing on the wall – clearly, WoW is losing more players than they can bring in.

tolunart.2095:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people know what “short” means, Q1 2013 which is where 8.3 million comes from.
Q2 2014 is where 6.3 million was stated (EDIT: We’re in the Q3 2014 right now, silly me).

The drop isn’t sharp, it’s following the expected trend of how all games behave in its lifetime (the shape, not the time frame), and is expected tail off slowly or until Blizzard pulls the plug.

Actually, reported sub numbers for WoW is about half what it was a few years ago, and that’s even if you don’t believe the claims they use accounting tricks to inflate the numbers.

It’s not unexpected, but with the ever-increasing competition from other MMOs and similar online games, especially the games that dropped their sub requirements or launched without subs. It’s assumed that there will be a percentage of players who move on from these games, and others who unsub and come back for expansions, but there’s writing on the wall – clearly, WoW is losing more players than they can bring in.

Yeah, I’m aware of that. Q3 & Q4 2010 is where WoW peaked and is now well into its falling phase. Only time will tell how the next expansion affects it and how it’ll tail off.
But it won’t go into a free fall and hit zero (not that you’re saying that or anything).

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people know what “short” means, Q1 2013 which is where 8.3 million comes from.
Q2 2014 is where 6.3 million was stated (EDIT: We’re in the Q3 2014 right now, silly me).

The drop isn’t sharp, it’s following the expected trend of how all games behave in its lifetime (the shape, not the time frame), and is expected tail off slowly or until Blizzard pulls the plug.

I guess the stock holders know more than you, because they’re selling. It’s funny that when GW 2 does 25% less in profit, it’s okay for people to say it’s dying because you don’t like where the game is going,. but when it happens to another game, you’re happy to defend it.

How is stating facts defending them?
Here’s the “attack” on WoW. That game’s dying because it has peaked and still following the expected life trend of a game.
Jesus, so much bias against me.

It’s not bias. I made a statement that in a relatively short amount of time the game has lost a lot of people. If I’d bothered to look it up, I could have used 800,000 in one quarter, which is a big percentage, even for WoW. The main point of my post is that WoW is bleeding subscribers.

Here’s a link to an article from Time Magazine ( http://time.com/3086189/world-warcraft-subscribers/ )

In the article you’ll find this quote from a WoW executive.

But when Blizzard president Mike Morhaime took his turn on the call, he admitted the company’s juggernaut MMO, World of Warcraft, has continued to hemorrhage subscribers.

If the company’s president can admit WoW is “hemorrhaging” subscribers, why is what I said so unreasonable? Blizzard knows it.

People are moving away from WoW because the game is aging. Because they don’t do frequent content updates. Because the nature of the player base is changing. Because new games are coming out. The bottom line is, my conversation is in response to a poster who thinks WoW is doing great and Guild Wars 2 isn’t.

It’s a perfect legit response, no matter how you try to edit it.

Ok, I just read your link, and clearly you have not and I’ve found the transcript of his words.
Mike Morhaime did not use the word “hemorrhaging” or “bleeding”.
His exact words were (and here’s how you quote properly)

http://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/activision-blizzard-q2-2014-financial-results-conference-call-transcript

As we mentioned on the previous call, we anticipated fluctuation in subscribership due to seasonality and the fact that the current game content is at the end of its life cycle. And as expected, we did see a decline in subscribers, which mostly came out of the East. This pattern is right in line, percentage-wise, with the drops that we saw at Cataclysm’s cycle in Q2 2012.

Facts!

BlueZone.4236:

Yeah, I’m aware of that. Q3 & Q4 2010 is where WoW peaked and is now well into its falling phase. Only time will tell how the next expansion affects it and how it’ll tail off.
But it won’t go into a free fall and hit zero (not that you’re saying that or anything).

More likely a slow decline levelling off at 2-3 million players who are so invested in the game they won’t leave until the last server is shut down. Dramatic crashes seem to be rare among these games, though you can’t tell that from the way posters bash games on the forums.

I find it ironic that most of the games proclaimed “dead” are still in existence, and considering the expense of just keeping the game running, let alone developing new content, they are making money. Competition is starting to take a toll, there have been a few games that shut down (or announced they will soon) recently, but overall there are a lot more people playing these games than some posters think.

But WoW’s day definitely has passed, and while it may hold on another 10 years with a small but dedicated player base, it will not be an industry leader much longer.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people know what “short” means, Q1 2013 which is where 8.3 million comes from.
Q2 2014 is where 6.3 million was stated (EDIT: We’re in the Q3 2014 right now, silly me).

The drop isn’t sharp, it’s following the expected trend of how all games behave in its lifetime (the shape, not the time frame), and is expected tail off slowly or until Blizzard pulls the plug.

I guess the stock holders know more than you, because they’re selling. It’s funny that when GW 2 does 25% less in profit, it’s okay for people to say it’s dying because you don’t like where the game is going,. but when it happens to another game, you’re happy to defend it.

How is stating facts defending them?
Here’s the “attack” on WoW. That game’s dying because it has peaked and still following the expected life trend of a game.
Jesus, so much bias against me.

It’s not bias. I made a statement that in a relatively short amount of time the game has lost a lot of people. If I’d bothered to look it up, I could have used 800,000 in one quarter, which is a big percentage, even for WoW. The main point of my post is that WoW is bleeding subscribers.

Here’s a link to an article from Time Magazine ( http://time.com/3086189/world-warcraft-subscribers/ )

In the article you’ll find this quote from a WoW executive.

But when Blizzard president Mike Morhaime took his turn on the call, he admitted the company’s juggernaut MMO, World of Warcraft, has continued to hemorrhage subscribers.

If the company’s president can admit WoW is “hemorrhaging” subscribers, why is what I said so unreasonable? Blizzard knows it.

People are moving away from WoW because the game is aging. Because they don’t do frequent content updates. Because the nature of the player base is changing. Because new games are coming out. The bottom line is, my conversation is in response to a poster who thinks WoW is doing great and Guild Wars 2 isn’t.

It’s a perfect legit response, no matter how you try to edit it.

Do you know how to distinguish between subjective words and facts? I was putting “short” into perspective. Funny how you don’t like when others puts your subjective words into perspective. A litte too funny.

I love how you imagine me saying WoW isn’t bleeding, or how I supposedly edited something to mean…I have no idea what, you’ll need to make up more things to tell your fanbase what I did.
Do I really need to quote my UNEDITED posts within this thread to prove you wrong about my so called defense?

FYI, the only edit I made was correcting myself from saying we’re in Q2 2014 to Q3 2014. But you needed to make me look bad in front of your fanbase, so I completely understand.

Did you bother to contradict the person I was responding to. Because if you did, I didn’t see it. His comments were way off kilter, but you felt you could just let those go. My comments were a bit off kilter and you couldn’t let that go. That’s almost the very definition of bias.

I thought we weren’t into repeating what other people have mentioned? Or was that a lie?

Have you ever rolled an Assassin and played PvP? You seem good at character assassination.

Whatever you think I’m good at or not, your responses to my posts follow a very specific pattern. You’re perfectly willing to correct something I said that was correct in principle, but you completely ignore the post I’m responding to, which is demonstrably untrue.

I don’t see any character assassination here. I’m stating exactly what happened.

Vayne.8563:

Mastermavrick.2439:

A nice helpful insight post, sadly this won’t stop very vocal entitlement ranters.

This post wasn’t supposed to stop that specific demographic. It’s for all the people who read and never post. Those people now have some extra information on which to judge how seriously to take specific rants.

There are some very good critical posts on these forums. And then there are people who just want to either troll, or they’re so convinced their viewpoint is some sort of majority opinion (or even worse better than everyone else’s opinion).

And there are a lot of people out there who do believe what they read without much question. So showing both sides of the story is always a good idea.

A little further explanation: there are people out there that will complain no matter what. They are unreasonable and you should take their opinion with a grain of salt. The other side of they coin are people that will be happy no matter what: take their opinion with even more salt

The best advice I can give to people reading the forums is to close them, search for hard facts and make their decisions based on them

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people know what “short” means, Q1 2013 which is where 8.3 million comes from.
Q2 2014 is where 6.3 million was stated (EDIT: We’re in the Q3 2014 right now, silly me).

The drop isn’t sharp, it’s following the expected trend of how all games behave in its lifetime (the shape, not the time frame), and is expected tail off slowly or until Blizzard pulls the plug.

I guess the stock holders know more than you, because they’re selling. It’s funny that when GW 2 does 25% less in profit, it’s okay for people to say it’s dying because you don’t like where the game is going,. but when it happens to another game, you’re happy to defend it.

How is stating facts defending them?
Here’s the “attack” on WoW. That game’s dying because it has peaked and still following the expected life trend of a game.
Jesus, so much bias against me.

It’s not bias. I made a statement that in a relatively short amount of time the game has lost a lot of people. If I’d bothered to look it up, I could have used 800,000 in one quarter, which is a big percentage, even for WoW. The main point of my post is that WoW is bleeding subscribers.

Here’s a link to an article from Time Magazine ( http://time.com/3086189/world-warcraft-subscribers/ )

In the article you’ll find this quote from a WoW executive.

But when Blizzard president Mike Morhaime took his turn on the call, he admitted the company’s juggernaut MMO, World of Warcraft, has continued to hemorrhage subscribers.

If the company’s president can admit WoW is “hemorrhaging” subscribers, why is what I said so unreasonable? Blizzard knows it.

People are moving away from WoW because the game is aging. Because they don’t do frequent content updates. Because the nature of the player base is changing. Because new games are coming out. The bottom line is, my conversation is in response to a poster who thinks WoW is doing great and Guild Wars 2 isn’t.

It’s a perfect legit response, no matter how you try to edit it.

Do you know how to distinguish between subjective words and facts? I was putting “short” into perspective. Funny how you don’t like when others puts your subjective words into perspective. A litte too funny.

I love how you imagine me saying WoW isn’t bleeding, or how I supposedly edited something to mean…I have no idea what, you’ll need to make up more things to tell your fanbase what I did.
Do I really need to quote my UNEDITED posts within this thread to prove you wrong about my so called defense?

FYI, the only edit I made was correcting myself from saying we’re in Q2 2014 to Q3 2014. But you needed to make me look bad in front of your fanbase, so I completely understand.

Did you bother to contradict the person I was responding to. Because if you did, I didn’t see it. His comments were way off kilter, but you felt you could just let those go. My comments were a bit off kilter and you couldn’t let that go. That’s almost the very definition of bias.

I thought we weren’t into repeating what other people have mentioned? Or was that a lie?

Have you ever rolled an Assassin and played PvP? You seem good at character assassination.

Whatever you think I’m good at or not, your responses to my posts follow a very specific pattern. You’re perfectly willing to correct something I said that was correct in principle, but you completely ignore the post I’m responding to, which is demonstrably untrue.

I don’t see any character assassination here. I’m stating exactly what happened.

Yes, putting out subjective words like “short” into perspective and not parroting someone’s correction is a bad habit of mine. Shame on me, huh?
Funny how when you do it, it’s ok, but when I do it, you’re all up in arms. Double standards much?

Also:
What you tell your fanbase: I made an edit to imply I’m trying to spin something.
What I really did: Corrected the time period I stated we are currently in.

What you tell your fanbase: I’m ignoring a post with some misinformation attacking GW2 because I’m defending WoW.
What I really did: Ignored a post that you already corrected, but posted a clarification/put things into perspective on the state of WoW’s sub numbers.

Pretty shocking attitude, I must say.

This is not true at all. ArenaNet are a group of superhumans. They can deliver an expansion in 3 years after release, while releasing living world etc.

@ Bluezone

Let’s simplify it.

Post 1: WoW is doing really well and Anet is doing really badly. News at 11.
Post 2. Actually WoW as long 2.3 gazillion subs in a short time.
Post 3. Actually It’s quite a while that it took WoW to lose those subs.
Post 4. WoW president – WoW is bleeding subs

Yes, you can argue or debate the word short (which was relatively short not short anyway, but you know, feel free to leave out words that don’t suit you).

However, a less disingenuous poster would have gone in and corrected the first post to which I was replying, instead of trying to make it LOOK like what I was saying was wrong. I could have just as easily used 800 thousand subs in a quarter and that is a factual number and the rest of my post would have been the same.

You tend to look to contradict my posts, because you disagree with me over many threads. You overlooked a post that was MORE wrong than mine, not only in specifics but in actual factual data.

This is what happened.

So you want me to parrot your correction? Don’t be silly. What would that achieve? Nothing.

Buddy, putting things into perspective isn’t a contradiction.

BlueZone.4236:

So you want me to parrot your correction? Don’t be silly. What would that achieve? Nothing.

Buddy, putting things into perspective isn’t a contradiction.

Its like when two cars in in a row, illegally parked and a cop gives one a ticket and leaves the first one. You could have easily said, yep, the guy was wrong but… you chose not to. It’s okay though. I’m used to it.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

So you want me to parrot your correction? Don’t be silly. What would that achieve? Nothing.

Buddy, putting things into perspective isn’t a contradiction.

Its like when two cars in in a row, illegally parked and a cop gives one a ticket and leaves the first one. You could have easily said, yep, the guy was wrong but… you chose not to. It’s okay though. I’m used to it.

No, it’s like two cops seeing the same car. Why would I ticket the same car when I see you doing it?
You’re a big boy now. You don’t need my acknowledgement.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

So you want me to parrot your correction? Don’t be silly. What would that achieve? Nothing.

Buddy, putting things into perspective isn’t a contradiction.

Its like when two cars in in a row, illegally parked and a cop gives one a ticket and leaves the first one. You could have easily said, yep, the guy was wrong but… you chose not to. It’s okay though. I’m used to it.

No, it’s like two cops seeing the same car. Why would I ticket the same car when I see you doing it?
You’re a big boy now. You don’t need my acknowledgement.

When you see a comment and a response, and you only corrrect the response, many would assume (not all but many) that you agree with the first comment. And you know, that’s not completely illogical. If you don’t support the first comment and you don’t say you, you leave it up to people to guess. Which seems like at the very least poor communication.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

So you want me to parrot your correction? Don’t be silly. What would that achieve? Nothing.

Buddy, putting things into perspective isn’t a contradiction.

Its like when two cars in in a row, illegally parked and a cop gives one a ticket and leaves the first one. You could have easily said, yep, the guy was wrong but… you chose not to. It’s okay though. I’m used to it.

No, it’s like two cops seeing the same car. Why would I ticket the same car when I see you doing it?
You’re a big boy now. You don’t need my acknowledgement.

When you see a comment and a response, and you only corrrect the response, many would assume (not all but many) that you agree with the first comment. And you know, that’s not completely illogical. If you don’t support the first comment and you don’t say you, you leave it up to people to guess. Which seems like at the very least poor communication.

Whoa now, Spock is on the scene, and he’s dishing out some logic. (sorry, couldnt resist, Spock has just made the word “illogicaL” a fun toy now)

hope that made someone giggle

Aetheldrake.6395:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

So you want me to parrot your correction? Don’t be silly. What would that achieve? Nothing.

Buddy, putting things into perspective isn’t a contradiction.

Its like when two cars in in a row, illegally parked and a cop gives one a ticket and leaves the first one. You could have easily said, yep, the guy was wrong but… you chose not to. It’s okay though. I’m used to it.

No, it’s like two cops seeing the same car. Why would I ticket the same car when I see you doing it?
You’re a big boy now. You don’t need my acknowledgement.

When you see a comment and a response, and you only corrrect the response, many would assume (not all but many) that you agree with the first comment. And you know, that’s not completely illogical. If you don’t support the first comment and you don’t say you, you leave it up to people to guess. Which seems like at the very least poor communication.

Whoa now, Spock is on the scene, and he’s dishing out some logic. (sorry, couldnt resist, Spock has just made the word “illogicaL” a fun toy now)

hope that made someone giggle

It made me laugh anyway.

Vayne.8563:

Aetheldrake.6395:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

So you want me to parrot your correction? Don’t be silly. What would that achieve? Nothing.

Buddy, putting things into perspective isn’t a contradiction.

Its like when two cars in in a row, illegally parked and a cop gives one a ticket and leaves the first one. You could have easily said, yep, the guy was wrong but… you chose not to. It’s okay though. I’m used to it.

No, it’s like two cops seeing the same car. Why would I ticket the same car when I see you doing it?
You’re a big boy now. You don’t need my acknowledgement.

When you see a comment and a response, and you only corrrect the response, many would assume (not all but many) that you agree with the first comment. And you know, that’s not completely illogical. If you don’t support the first comment and you don’t say you, you leave it up to people to guess. Which seems like at the very least poor communication.

Whoa now, Spock is on the scene, and he’s dishing out some logic. (sorry, couldnt resist, Spock has just made the word “illogicaL” a fun toy now)

hope that made someone giggle

It made me laugh anyway.

woo

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

So you want me to parrot your correction? Don’t be silly. What would that achieve? Nothing.

Buddy, putting things into perspective isn’t a contradiction.

Its like when two cars in in a row, illegally parked and a cop gives one a ticket and leaves the first one. You could have easily said, yep, the guy was wrong but… you chose not to. It’s okay though. I’m used to it.

No, it’s like two cops seeing the same car. Why would I ticket the same car when I see you doing it?
You’re a big boy now. You don’t need my acknowledgement.

When you see a comment and a response, and you only corrrect the response, many would assume (not all but many) that you agree with the first comment. And you know, that’s not completely illogical. If you don’t support the first comment and you don’t say you, you leave it up to people to guess. Which seems like at the very least poor communication.

So people are going to see one posting about a 2 million decrease in a “relatively short” time, then someone else saying “relatively short” means over a year with real numbers dates, they will assume the second person is supporting the original claim of thriving.

What. The.
I can’t even…

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

So you want me to parrot your correction? Don’t be silly. What would that achieve? Nothing.

Buddy, putting things into perspective isn’t a contradiction.

Its like when two cars in in a row, illegally parked and a cop gives one a ticket and leaves the first one. You could have easily said, yep, the guy was wrong but… you chose not to. It’s okay though. I’m used to it.

No, it’s like two cops seeing the same car. Why would I ticket the same car when I see you doing it?
You’re a big boy now. You don’t need my acknowledgement.

When you see a comment and a response, and you only corrrect the response, many would assume (not all but many) that you agree with the first comment. And you know, that’s not completely illogical. If you don’t support the first comment and you don’t say you, you leave it up to people to guess. Which seems like at the very least poor communication.

So people are going to see one posting about a 2 million decrease in a “relatively short” time, then someone else saying “relatively short” means over a year with real numbers dates, they will assume the second person is supporting the original claim of thriving.

What. The.
I can’t even…

hmm I think you’re misunderstanding what Vayne means in your thread… in the interest of hopefully defusing this before we get the thread closed …

When vayne said that 2 million thing he was replying to someone saying that Gw2 is dieing while WoW is triving.

The issue Vayne has unless I missunderstood him also is you felt the need to address the time frame Vayne implied in his 2 million statement (which is fine relatively short can mean different things to different people) but felt no need to challenge the author to whom Vayne was replying and his statement that WoW is triving while Gw2 is not.

Its not about agreeing or disagreeing but rather Vayne felt that The author he was replying to was wrong and that sits fine with you but a little ambiguity in Vayne’s otherwise correct statement you found an issue with.