I would like to first introduce myself and then I will talk about my cause.
I have been a huge MMO fan since the early days back in 2004 when WoW came out ever since then the only games I played were MMO’s. Guild wars was brilliant ! Played it quite a lot and I couldn’t wait for GW2 to come out, and it finally did. Almost 2 years have passed since the release date and I myself am starting to look around for other MMO’s, whats on the market now and how GW2 compares to the new kids on the block. So recently I tried Wildstar which had a lot of promise for competitive PVE and to be a hard game in general with a unique combat system. Well…. the combat system has nothing unique about it, it’s basically GW2’s combat system with worse animation. When I saw that this started me thinking, I don’t want a new MMO, I love GW2 and since Arenanet has always listened to their users I decided to make this post with a few suggestions from a hardcore PVE fan.
Lately I log in and wonder what to do online … Dungeons got quite boring after the bazilion run. World bosses you say ? Well after the merger of the servers they get melted on the spot and it really doesn’t bring a lot of challenge. Well yeah there are some tactics to them and some phases but when you are 300 people doing it there is a very slim chance to mess up. As a very competitive player I need a goal in a game I need to know that there is an item out there that only few can acquire only by being constantly good in their PVE mechanics. A legendary item some may say ? And I would disagree, you can get that with just a few months constant farm which has nothing to do with your individual PVE skills. So my suggestion is quite simple. I know you love adding content and expanding the game, the living story has been excellent so far but its not a real challenge for players like me. I do the quests in a day and then just wait for the next part. I would love to really see competitive raids being created. Something of the sort 20-30 players enter the dungeon (after all its a MMO, 5 mans just doesn’t cut it any more). Where individual skill matters and where working as a group really shows results because like I mentioned earlier on the worlds bosses I see people only standing there and getting loot with out doing any real damage and really contributing to the kill. So what I am trying to say is, I want to see raids! Where I have to learn tactics to bosses to bang my head against the screen for months before I get the drop I need and to be challenged from bizzare creatures from the GW2 universe. And I think I am not the only one, a lot of people love this game but some of us find it too easy. Make us suffer for gear and kills.
The raiding portion of any gaming population is traditionally one of the smallest (if loudest segments) of the community. Anet, in my opinion, can’t spare the time to make challenging raids like the kind you’re asking for…unless I guess they included very easy modes for people who want to try the content. However, Anet has said all along they want their population in the open world. They want a living breathing world. I’m not sure how that can happen in a series of instances.
I’m pretty sure you’re not going to see instanced raids in this game.
The raiding portion of any gaming population is traditionally one of the smallest (if loudest segments) of the community. Anet, in my opinion, can’t spare the time to make challenging raids like the kind you’re asking for…unless I guess they included very easy modes for people who want to try the content. However, Anet has said all along they want their population in the open world. They want a living breathing world. I’m not sure how that can happen in a series of instances.
I’m pretty sure you’re not going to see instanced raids in this game.
I don’t want to burst a bubble for you but a large portion of the last few updates was instances….
Difference between them and raids is that they are easy, soloable and almost unreplayable(not that they can’t be replayed it’s that there is no real reason to replay them).
The raiding portion of any gaming population is traditionally one of the smallest (if loudest segments) of the community. Anet, in my opinion, can’t spare the time to make challenging raids like the kind you’re asking for…unless I guess they included very easy modes for people who want to try the content. However, Anet has said all along they want their population in the open world. They want a living breathing world. I’m not sure how that can happen in a series of instances.
I’m pretty sure you’re not going to see instanced raids in this game.
I don’t want to burst a bubble for you that a large portion of the last few updates was instances….
Difference between them and raids is that they are easy, soloable and almost unreplayable(not that they can’t be replayed it’s that there is no real reason to replay them).
You’re not bursting my bubble. Those instances are quick hits. Most people aren’t running them over and over again. They take people out of the world for a tiny amount of time and put them back in. That’s not really what a raid is, traditionally.
The game is centered on the open world. In fact, in the last LS, they actually sent people to open world events, which you had to do to complete the living story. I’m not sure how you can compare those instances to the types of raids the OP is asking for.
I would like to first introduce myself and then I will talk about my cause.
I have been a huge MMO fan since the early days back in 2004 when WoW came out ever since then the only games I played were MMO’s. Guild wars was brilliant ! Played it quite a lot and I couldn’t wait for GW2 to come out, and it finally did. Almost 2 years have passed since the release date and I myself am starting to look around for other MMO’s, whats on the market now and how GW2 compares to the new kids on the block. So recently I tried Wildstar which had a lot of promise for competitive PVE and to be a hard game in general with a unique combat system. Well…. the combat system has nothing unique about it, it’s basically GW2’s combat system with worse animation. When I saw that this started me thinking, I don’t want a new MMO, I love GW2 and since Arenanet has always listened to their users I decided to make this post with a few suggestions from a hardcore PVE fan.
Lately I log in and wonder what to do online … Dungeons got quite boring after the bazilion run. World bosses you say ? Well after the merger of the servers they get melted on the spot and it really doesn’t bring a lot of challenge. Well yeah there are some tactics to them and some phases but when you are 300 people doing it there is a very slim chance to mess up. As a very competitive player I need a goal in a game I need to know that there is an item out there that only few can acquire only by being constantly good in their PVE mechanics. A legendary item some may say ? And I would disagree, you can get that with just a few months constant farm which has nothing to do with your individual PVE skills. So my suggestion is quite simple. I know you love adding content and expanding the game, the living story has been excellent so far but its not a real challenge for players like me. I do the quests in a day and then just wait for the next part. I would love to really see competitive raids being created. Something of the sort 20-30 players enter the dungeon (after all its a MMO, 5 mans just doesn’t cut it any more). Where individual skill matters and where working as a group really shows results because like I mentioned earlier on the worlds bosses I see people only standing there and getting loot with out doing any real damage and really contributing to the kill. So what I am trying to say is, I want to see raids! Where I have to learn tactics to bosses to bang my head against the screen for months before I get the drop I need and to be challenged from bizzare creatures from the GW2 universe. And I think I am not the only one, a lot of people love this game but some of us find it too easy. Make us suffer for gear and kills.
Thank you
20 man raids usually arent about personal skill, They often require organizational skill, and strategy, etc. But thats not really close to the same thing.
Unless you made a 20 man event/dunegon/area where your broke into smaller groups with specific goals, that could be fun.
Individual skill and working as a group and following tactics and having good mechanics. I want events like that to shine and not see people leeching items and exp from world bosses !
EVERY MMO is awesome until it is released then its unfinished. A month after release it just sucks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Anyone who posts on these forums saying “Raids are good, why can’t we have raids?” is going to get some fierce answers eventually, so I’ll just try to clear it up first. No, instanced raids are not good. One of the design goals of the original GW2 design was to create open access events and that goal still stands. Every reason why raids are good actually has a downside to go with it.
- Raids need players to organize, great! No this organization made players in MMOs pull their hair out. Players needed to give time commitments that cut across family time. It was awful. Organization also excludes casual players.
- You get great content with more players! No. It’s in fact harder to make each player’s contribution seem vital without letting each player fail the event for everyone else.
- You get roles and purpose within the team! What happens when you a raid together and people can’t fill those roles? Everyone’s time is wasted, lots of people’s time is wasted.
- You can get great loot! It will only be different skins in GW2. No top tier items will be restricted to content that most players cannot access.
yes we either need hardmode or some real elite areas
even if i cant beat them myself i wouldnt complain…. how could i?
the problem is that i am too bad for it then and not that the content is too hard
i really dont get how so many people can dare to ask for nerfs and make things easier ALL THE TIME
i really dont understand these people where is the fun when there is no challenge????
if they want easy stuff they can go kill trashmobs in queensdale but not ask to destroy the few challenging things for other players
doesnt need to be raids
but hard content
we only have 1 content like this where you actually need skill and get unique rewards for it that cant be bought!! (fractals lvl 40-50)
The raiding portion of any gaming population is traditionally one of the smallest (if loudest segments) of the community. Anet, in my opinion, can’t spare the time to make challenging raids like the kind you’re asking for…unless I guess they included very easy modes for people who want to try the content. However, Anet has said all along they want their population in the open world. They want a living breathing world. I’m not sure how that can happen in a series of instances.
I’m pretty sure you’re not going to see instanced raids in this game.
I don’t want to burst a bubble for you that a large portion of the last few updates was instances….
Difference between them and raids is that they are easy, soloable and almost unreplayable(not that they can’t be replayed it’s that there is no real reason to replay them).
You’re not bursting my bubble. Those instances are quick hits. Most people aren’t running them over and over again. They take people out of the world for a tiny amount of time and put them back in. That’s not really what a raid is, traditionally.
The game is centered on the open world. In fact, in the last LS, they actually sent people to open world events, which you had to do to complete the living story. I’m not sure how you can compare those instances to the types of raids the OP is asking for.
Hmm… I don’t think that after that quick hits there much more to do in the last update. So I really can’t see what your arguments suppose to prove? Almost all (like 95%) of the open world content right now is two years old. How is that testifying in your favor?
I do agree with the intention to keep people in the world… But I can’t see what is AN doing to make that happen.
PS: About the dry top: I’m absolutely sure that there are many more people doing two years old dungeons then spending time in there.
My arguments have nothing to do with what is or isn’t happening in the game. It’s about what traditionally happens in most games. If you make content for 5% of the player base, is that the best use of resources? That’s the real question.
Anyone who posts on these forums saying “Raids are good, why can’t we have raids?” is going to get some fierce answers eventually, so I’ll just try to clear it up first. No, instanced raids are not good. One of the design goals of the original GW2 design was to create open access events and that goal still stands. Every reason why raids are good actually has a downside to go with it.
- Raids need players to organize, great! No this organization made players in MMOs pull their hair out. Players needed to give time commitments that cut across family time. It was awful. Organization also excludes casual players.
- You get great content with more players! No. It’s in fact harder to make each player’s contribution seem vital without letting each player fail the event for everyone else.
- You get roles and purpose within the team! What happens when you a raid together and people can’t fill those roles? Everyone’s time is wasted, lots of people’s time is wasted.
- You can get great loot! It will only be different skins in GW2. No top tier items will be restricted to content that most players cannot access.
I completely agree with this. When I played WoW I would have to make sure I had at least 5-6 hours free if I wanted to do a raid as 95% of the time people would not show up! You’d have to look for people to fill the spaces. Have the gear/exp you wanted/needed. Then normally someone would mess up and wipe the party. The raids I went on fell apart more offer than not, at lest for the first 2-3 months then after that it was easy. And all the Challange had gone and your waiting for the next one. That is the number one resin I stopped playing WoW. I didn’t see the point in paying money for content I couldn’t play because of other people. I know I won’t be paying for it in GW2.
What we all have to remember is that ANet want everyone to be able to play any content they want. They don’t care if not everyone can do festival content like liadri or the mad kings clock tower. It’s that they can do it if they want to. Raid content by nature will have people putting there own restrictions on it from the word go. It’s bad enough that I see people asking for 5-6K AP to do a two year old dungeon. It’s not like havering AP means your skilled at the game. Next peopl will be asking people to ping gear and utility skills etc. I remember how unfriendly raiding can be when it’s your first time. I do like how friendly GW2 is. I feel raid content would bring out the worst in people.
Raids create a game of have and have nots. I’m pretty sure that’s what Anet is trying to avoid.
There’s actually two separate issues at work here. If you make it so that there rewards are better, then you end up with citizens and second class citizens. This happens in most MMOs.
If you make it so the rewards aren’t good enough, then people wont’ do them, because people gravitate to the highest rewards. Why work harder to get the same stuff.
Even in games with better rewards for raids, raids aren’t done by the biggest percentage of the player base. How much less so here? I mean we should learn from experience. TA etherblade path is a much harder path than most dungeons and one of the dungeons people don’t regularly run for that reason.
Well I just went to Claw of Jormag, it was a fail group, we messed up the tactics and still managed to get a kill because we were too many people. Life lesson learned. Even tho you don’t do things right you can still achieve victory. And of course everyone got their loot even tho I saw alot of people just standing there and waiting for the event to be over and did the minimum required to get the loot.
Swift…I agree…leechers are annoying. But making raids, in my opinion, isn’t the way to deal with them. There has to be a way for Anet to see that someone hasn’t participated and deal with them somehow.
Well I just went to Claw of Jormag, it was a fail group, we messed up the tactics and still managed to get a kill because we were too many people. Life lesson learned. Even tho you don’t do things right you can still achieve victory. And of course everyone got their loot even tho I saw alot of people just standing there and waiting for the event to be over and did the minimum required to get the loot.
teq and triple worm are harder than claw of jormag. Why are you complaining about easy world events.
Dungeons, world bosses and group events come in mind.
Since they were designed to be easy for casuals, which was a bad mistake…
Hopefully they do update the PvE group content to be impossible to abuse with stuff like full-berserker-teams, corner-exploits and other unfair practices…
I’m a casual PvE adventurer, I enjoy combat, adventure and helping, but not farming.
I rarely do PvP or Hard PvE, unless it’s organized.
I doubt raids will happen. For one, they’re pretty development heavy for what I’d imagine would be a small portion of this playerbase playing them. Most people already struggle with this game’s dungeons, which are pretty easy, so a raid wouldn’t be touched by a lot of people.
Second, getting people to run raids is another problem. Look at Wildstar, 40 man raids are what everyone wants to do but they’re having huge issues with server pop and 40 man attunements making it almost impossible to get 40 mans cleared.
I’d prefer new dungeons. Easier to make and balance, even if that sense of “raid-scope” is lost.
I hate to say it, but Wildstar is very much an experiment to see if the kind of content Swift asks for is viable as the mainstay for a highly profitable MMO. My guess, based on observations of trends in the MMO industry, is that WS will at best be a modest success. I’m of the opinion that, going forward, people wanting that kind of challenge will not be looking for it in MMO PvE.
As to GW2, while ANet may want to provide something for everyone, their design goal for the game was to feature large persistent world events, I expect more events like Teq and Wurm, but don’t believe they will provide instanced raids, particularly instanced raids with exclusive drops.
