Guild Wars 2

I’ll add to this thread the further I go.

Because I hate myself, apparently, upon hearing the rage and fury from the online contingent (and knowing if there’s anything the online community loves, it’s irrational rage and hyperbole), I decided to put this “horrible”, “terrible”, “worst patch in history” to the test.

1-10

Because I really hate myself, I chose to level another ranger. Okay, in truth it’s because it’s my primary class and I felt it would be the most easy for me to notice not just significant, but also subtle changes as well.

The first thing I noticed was a complete inability to control my pet, as the pet bar didn’t unlock for me until level 5. Basically set to a guard state, but with no call back until it unlocked, potentially running from combat would be troublesome. However, since level 5 unlocked in about 20 minutes, it was a minor bother at best… not to mention I didn’t actually HAVE to run away from anyone.

Many of the things that weren’t visible on the mini-map were still accessible, and I think one source of a TON of misinformation being thrown about by the fanbase. YES, you can dodge roll from level 1. YES, you can still activate vistas and complete heart quests. YES, you can still mine/log/gather. Just for some reason, you can’t see vistas and gathering nodes on the mini-map.

Yes, it’s silly (are new players REALLY getting overwhelmed by all this stuff?), but as a veteran player who knows where the vistas are (let’s be honest, after three times through Queensdale, you don’t need a marker to know where they are), and what the gathering nodes look like, at the very worst, it was a quirky inconvenience. Worth the incendiary rage I’ve been seeing? Not in the slightest.

(Additional note: the simplification of some heart quests was… humorously poor. Were people really having so much trouble with “see cow, grab bundle, feed cow?”)

Skill points cannot be gathered, however, which as I recall is a deviation from before. Now, you’re completely gated from them until you reach level 13, as it sounds. That’s a bother, because being able to get a bit of a “head start” on skill points before you could unlock them was nice. Now… bleh.

One part that WAS a handy improvement was the weapon skill unlocking. Yeah, for all the spite it received, getting to level 10 and having ALL weapon skills unlocked for ALL weapons at that point… I liked that. No more having to grind through every weapon. So yeah… the haters are wrong here. Sorry guys. This way is better.

Finally, key farmers no doubt hate the new patch (to the point where I wonder if a lot of the rage is from the key farmers more than anyone else). While you still get a Black Lion Key from the level 10 personal story chain, you have to wait until level 10 before that clump of instances unlock. It makes what was once a 15 minute key run into something like 45 minutes (I would wager). Yeah, I’m sure they’re royally kittened off.

At the end of the day; 1-10 really… isn’t much different than before. If you didn’t like the low level grind, you aren’t going to like it now. But on the same token, if you didn’t mind it before, I see little that would make you despise it now other than the fact it’s a change.

Coming up soon… 11-20. Does a shift in unlocking utility skills cause me to blow a gasket? We’ll find out!

Looking forward to your continued reports.

How was using a ranger pet from level 5 onward? Another poster said you don’t get access to all the F keys until level 24.

I am a vet player, I guess. I dunno… I don’t know the metric, but my posting history should prove I have been here for a while. However, I got this game just after release played for a while but took a long break. Capped a Thief and Guard before leaving.

I came back like a day or two before this big patch and I feel new all over again. My hero pane, getting gear in PvP, how my bank works, so much has changed. I almost feel overwhelmed, but I like that and you know what… I am having a ton of fun.

I am leveling an Engi right now and about to start leveling a Elementalist and all I can say is I am having fun. Actually, it seems I am having more fun with the game now than I was before. Maybe I’ll be bored again in three weeks, but for now I am having a blast and these changes aren’t a big deal for me.

Keep up the reporting! I’m interested in seeing what someone with a more objective mentality about it has to say about the new experience.

I’m holding off because apparently fixes are on the way. I’ll progress further once those go live.

luckily I’ve reached level 40 before the patch on my final character. However, I have to say that the restriction on getting into higher level zones is ridiculous, you get like 3-4 experience for killing harder to kill mobs, you’re experience for discovery and nodes haven’t been affected but it’s odd that you can’t EARN anymore xp especially since food only affects kills rather than explorations or events. The other thing I hate and this is from the previous patch, is what is required to unlock traits. You basically have to be 80 for some of it which kind of defeats the purpose doesn’kitten So I think that’s the reason why there’s so much outrage, it’s not just one patch it’s 2.

You know I really like this topic ill be checking up on it to get another persons pov on the level experience. Even though we might not think the same id like to see an honest attempt on a review of the full experience . Seems like an honest attempt of a review for the NPE.

(at least for now)

Andred.1087:

Keep up the reporting! I’m interested in seeing what someone with a more objective mentality about it has to say about the new experience.

How do you know he is being objective? Because he is on the opposite side of the rage?

99% of the time people will make things seem different than they really are to make it fit their argument. Not saying that is the case here, but that’s how it usually goes in any argument/discussion.

Not to steal the thunder of the person who started the thread, but I’m a veteran as well, and I decided to start a Ranger and run them through the new leveling process as well. Last night I did the 1-10 run in Queensdale. Here are a few comments I have to add to the mix:

• It was disconcerting at first not being able to buy gathering materials or recycling kits. Apparently you can still gather and recycle, but you can’t buy the tools anywhere in the low level areas. I fixed this by going into Divinity’s Reach and buying what I needed there. It means I will have to go out of my way by about a minute with each character when I run into the nearest city to get the things I need, but it’s not a deal breaker. It did make doing the dailies tough until I figured it out, though.

• Not being able to get the Skill Points seems…dumb. Not only do they help boost the XP you get while leveling, they can be a lot of fun. I can live with it if I have to, but I really hope we get the option to get them at low levels if we want. Why not just remove them from the low level areas altogether if we can’t interact with them? (Also, what happens if someone high level comes along and starts a fight and we join in…do we get the skill point then?)

• Not being able to fight underwater also seems weird, but that’s probably because I’m used to being able to do it. It does take some time for a new player to adjust to, since it’s a whole other skill set, and I feel the whole system needs some revamping anyway. Not a deal breaker, since I’ve noticed a lot of players tend to avoid underwater fights anyway.

• I’ve heard rumors that the diving goggles don’t work at low levels either. That should be changed back immediately. It’s not that hard to figure out, and it’s not like a pop-up box can’t explain it. This was never a requirement for leveling, and it was fun. Changing this was a mistake, i think.

• Unlocking the weapons one step at a time wasn’t nearly as bad as I thought. Even playing a class I knew really well didn’t seem to hamper my ability to get along okay. And it did make things more challenging…and I know a lot of people have wanted that for a long time. I’m okay with this change.

• Getting bonus stuff when leveling up = good. I have no issues with that change (why would anyone).

So, there’s definitely some adjustments that need to be done, both on the part of Anet and with the players. I’d like to think there’s a compromise in there that everyone could agree on.

However, I will say that some of the changes to the Trading Post are terrible. I like the new look and the way we can sort things, but having to click to sell instantly and pull a bar across to sell everything is tedious and counter-productive. So, I hope they work to improve that.

Looking forward to hearing the report of levels 11+.

Scutilla.3072:

Looking forward to your continued reports.

How was using a ranger pet from level 5 onward? Another poster said you don’t get access to all the F keys until level 24.

For the record, I had access to everything except F2 from level 5 on.

chemiclord.3978:

One part that WAS a handy improvement was the weapon skill unlocking. Yeah, for all the spite it received, getting to level 10 and having ALL weapon skills unlocked for ALL weapons at that point… I liked that. No more having to grind through every weapon. So yeah… the haters are wrong here. Sorry guys. This way is better.

^ This. As experienced / vets – weapon skills should be second nature as to what they do (alts should be loving this). This is literally cruise control for the experienced / vet. I really don’t understand why they are heavily against this. It makes less work for the exp / vet players. They should be using it to their advantage.

As another poster stated, the NPE does need some adjustments to make it more palatable for everyone.

chemiclord.3978:

I’ll add to this thread the further I go.

Because I hate myself, apparently, upon hearing the rage and fury from the online contingent (and knowing if there’s anything the online community loves, it’s irrational rage and hyperbole), I decided to put this “horrible”, “terrible”, “worst patch in history” to the test.

1-10

Because I really hate myself, I chose to level another ranger. Okay, in truth it’s because it’s my primary class and I felt it would be the most easy for me to notice not just significant, but also subtle changes as well.

The first thing I noticed was a complete inability to control my pet, as the pet bar didn’t unlock for me until level 5. Basically set to a guard state, but with no call back until it unlocked, potentially running from combat would be troublesome. However, since level 5 unlocked in about 20 minutes, it was a minor bother at best… not to mention I didn’t actually HAVE to run away from anyone.

Coming up soon… 11-20. Does a shift in unlocking utility skills cause me to blow a gasket? We’ll find out!

your analysis is way off.

If your goal or joy in low leveling was getting levels fast, then its essentially the same, if what you enjoyed low levels was the freedoms, options its totally different.
The best people can say about the new system is that its faster and easier. If that wasnt your main goal, its totally different.

Heres how i would play an alt usually before, and you ll see many of the joys are totally different, increasing boredom.

• starter area, try to kill as many enemies as i can without going out of my way on path to finishing zone, you get better skill unlocks faster in this area, so every kill is still uselful to your charachter although the experience to next level isnt the focus.
• When you finish the starter story, pick a different weapon, or a side weapon, unlocking other skills keeps you focused on aquiring new skills, and killing enemies.
  • picking up new weapons matters, for unlocking purposes, every time you get a new weapon you now have something new to try. (notice my focus of play is only slightly on effecient exp earning)
• By level 3 you probably have 1-2 weapon sets completely unlocked, but you still have other weapon sets, you have the option of using your favorite weapons or unlocking basic ones, it gets easier to unlock weapons he higher level you are.
• Your doing personal story now, its pretty easy at first, but the more above level you go the harder it is. If you actually get equipment, you can kill enemies pretty fast, but they can kill you with a single mistake, feels exciting. If you prefer it easy, you can do open world stuff at your leisure, you have options.
  • hit skill points in areas as soon as possible, this gives you options for more heals, and later, more options for utility skills. Gives extra goals you choose, taking the focus off just grinding exp as fast as possible.

Essentially the old system gives you multiple goals, with choices that effect how you level, and gives you different styles for doing it.

Now, killing any monster at all, that isnt in a dynamic event/heart is ineffecient. Event tagging is the name of the game, tag as many events just enough to get credit, and find new ones. Leveling is focused on hearts, which after the first time i played, i generally avoided unless i could do something else at the same time (like unlocking weapon skills, or dynamic events, or it was a fun heart) The entire goal of low level play now, is effeciently grinding exp. And thats why a lot of people hate it, because now they are watching the pot.

That said, is it the end of the world? not really. Does it change the focus of alt play from exploration and doing what you want, to essentially map completion and event tagging? yes. I mean yeah, its always been a fast way to level, but by gating abilities/traits to higher levels, they decrease the chances you are enjoying being lower level, so what you get overall is a less enjoyable leveling process, and a greater feeling that your primary focus should be leveling effeciently

phys.7689:

chemiclord.3978:

I’ll add to this thread the further I go.

Because I hate myself, apparently, upon hearing the rage and fury from the online contingent (and knowing if there’s anything the online community loves, it’s irrational rage and hyperbole), I decided to put this “horrible”, “terrible”, “worst patch in history” to the test.

1-10

Because I really hate myself, I chose to level another ranger. Okay, in truth it’s because it’s my primary class and I felt it would be the most easy for me to notice not just significant, but also subtle changes as well.

The first thing I noticed was a complete inability to control my pet, as the pet bar didn’t unlock for me until level 5. Basically set to a guard state, but with no call back until it unlocked, potentially running from combat would be troublesome. However, since level 5 unlocked in about 20 minutes, it was a minor bother at best… not to mention I didn’t actually HAVE to run away from anyone.

Coming up soon… 11-20. Does a shift in unlocking utility skills cause me to blow a gasket? We’ll find out!

your analysis is way off.

If your goal or joy in low leveling was getting levels fast, then its essentially the same, if what you enjoyed low levels was the freedoms, options its totally different.
The best people can say about the new system is that its faster and easier. If that wasnt your main goal, its totally different.

Heres how i would play an alt usually before, and you ll see many of the joys are totally different, increasing boredom.

• starter area, try to kill as many enemies as i can without going out of my way on path to finishing zone, you get better skill unlocks faster in this area, so every kill is still uselful to your charachter although the experience to next level isnt the focus.
• When you finish the starter story, pick a different weapon, or a side weapon, unlocking other skills keeps you focused on aquiring new skills, and killing enemies.
  • picking up new weapons matters, for unlocking purposes, every time you get a new weapon you now have something new to try. (notice my focus of play is only slightly on effecient exp earning)
• By level 3 you probably have 1-2 weapon sets completely unlocked, but you still have other weapon sets, you have the option of using your favorite weapons or unlocking basic ones, it gets easier to unlock weapons he higher level you are.
• Your doing personal story now, its pretty easy at first, but the more above level you go the harder it is. If you actually get equipment, you can kill enemies pretty fast, but they can kill you with a single mistake, feels exciting. If you prefer it easy, you can do open world stuff at your leisure, you have options.
  • hit skill points in areas as soon as possible, this gives you options for more heals, and later, more options for utility skills. Gives extra goals you choose, taking the focus off just grinding exp as fast as possible.

Essentially the old system gives you multiple goals, with choices that effect how you level, and gives you different styles for doing it.

Now, killing any monster at all, that isnt in a dynamic event/heart is ineffecient. Event tagging is the name of the game, tag as many events just enough to get credit, and find new ones. Leveling is focused on hearts, which after the first time i played, i generally avoided unless i could do something else at the same time (like unlocking weapon skills, or dynamic events, or it was a fun heart) The entire goal of low level play now, is effeciently grinding exp. And thats why a lot of people hate it, because now they are watching the pot.

That said, is it the end of the world? not really. Does it change the focus of alt play from exploration and doing what you want, to essentially map completion and event tagging? yes. I mean yeah, its always been a fast way to level, but by gating abilities/traits to higher levels, they decrease the chances you are enjoying being lower level, so what you get overall is a less enjoyable leveling process, and a greater feeling that your primary focus should be leveling effeciently

If you didnt contradict yourself so much,someone would actually think youre serious. You speak a lot about efficiency for soemone who proclaims doesnt care about efficiency.

Weapon skills:

before: grind mobs, grind mobs and then grind some more mobs for every single skill of every single weapon or NO weapons skills for YOU!
after: do whatever you want (including grinding mobs)

Yeah, limiting freedom my kitten

11-20

Pretty uneventual initially (Personal Story pushed me to level 13 as it was), and really up until 13 it was all the same until finally unlocking utility skills and the ability to access skill points.

Not sure if it’s consistent among classes or races, but for my human ranger, I got Signet of Renewal for free as my first unlocked utility, which is pretty much the worst one that could have been provided for a PvE leveling experience. I had to backtrack to earlier regions to gather up skill points to replace it and Heal as One, a healing skill I normally replaced as soon as I possibly could (seriously, Troll Unguent heals nearly as much per tick, ticks 9 more times, and only has a 5 second longer cooldown).

At level 15, I finally have the ability to swap weapons. Previously having it at level 7 before, it was something that irritated me, even though I really couldn’t think of any one place up until then where I felt, “If only I could weapon swap here…” While it didn’t negatively impact the game itself, any maybe in terms of total time spent it wasn’t much longer, it felt like it took longer, and felt like an annoyance.

I also gained my pet’s F2 skill at about this time… 15 levels to finally feel “complete.” I understand for other classes, it can take longer to unlock the “base” mechanics of your given class. Maybe having that slow unlock process DOES help new characters, but for veterans, it’s an annoyance.

And that’s kinda what these first 15 levels kinda feel like… quick, not painful, but just a little series of annoyances one after the other, stretched out longer than we were used to.

After level 15, the exp curve returns to what a veteran player recognizes as “normal.” At about level 17, I stumbled onto my first trait (that I can’t use for another 13 levels), not that it’s a particularly useful one, and is a reminder of something I am reasonably certain I am going to loathe going forward, trait hunting.

I can’t say I’ve really noticed too much of the “profession compatible” loot adjustment that this Feature Pack provided so far at this point up to level 20. I’ve gotten much more relevant gear from leveling up.

I also noticed that I wasn’t getting skill points at level up after about level 14. I don’t know if that is intended or a bug or what. That’s not a small irritation. (Edit: I got 8 skill points at level 20. Uhh… okay…)

I still really haven’t felt “underpowered” at any point, even with the stats being clumped together rather than a gradual gain… but I still don’t see any compelling reason to clump them together, either. The skill points are a more “visible” thing, so I guess I can get that… but the stat points? Really?

All in all, there seems to be two very different experiences in this level range, pre-15 and post-15. Once you get past that barrier, the game plays much like it did before, as far as I can remember (although if I recall correctly that second utility skill unlocked right at 20).

Will having that second slot delayed 4 levels impact my experience? Will my character’s 20s be as boring as mine was? Stay tuned!

chemiclord.3978:

11-20

Pretty uneventual initially (Personal Story pushed me to level 13 as it was), and really up until 13 it was all the same until finally unlocking utility skills and the ability to access skill points.

Not sure if it’s consistent among classes or races, but for my human ranger, I got Signet of Renewal for free as my first unlocked utility, which is pretty much the worst one that could have been provided for a PvE leveling experience. I had to backtrack to earlier regions to gather up skill points to replace it and Heal as One, a healing skill I normally replaced as soon as I possibly could (seriously, Troll Unguent heals nearly as much per tick, ticks 9 more times, and only has a 5 second longer cooldown).

At level 15, I finally have the ability to swap weapons. Previously having it at level 7 before, it was something that irritated me, even though I really couldn’t think of any one place up until then where I felt, “If only I could weapon swap here…” While it didn’t negatively impact the game itself, any maybe in terms of total time spent it wasn’t much longer, it felt like it took longer, and felt like an annoyance.

I also gained my pet’s F2 skill at about this time… 15 levels to finally feel “complete.” I understand for other classes, it can take longer to unlock the “base” mechanics of your given class. Maybe having that slow unlock process DOES help new characters, but for veterans, it’s an annoyance.

And that’s kinda what these first 15 levels kinda feel like… quick, not painful, but just a little series of annoyances one after the other, stretched out longer than we were used to.

After level 15, the exp curve returns to what a veteran player recognizes as “normal.” At about level 17, I stumbled onto my first trait (that I can’t use for another 13 levels), not that it’s a particularly useful one, and is a reminder of something I am reasonably certain I am going to loathe going forward, trait hunting.

I can’t say I’ve really noticed too much of the “profession compatible” loot adjustment that this Feature Pack provided so far at this point up to level 20. I’ve gotten much more relevant gear from leveling up.

I also noticed that I wasn’t getting skill points at level up after about level 14. I don’t know if that is intended or a bug or what. That’s not a small irritation. (Edit: I got 8 skill points at level 20. Uhh… okay…)

I still really haven’t felt “underpowered” at any point, even with the stats being clumped together rather than a gradual gain… but I still don’t see any compelling reason to clump them together, either. The skill points are a more “visible” thing, so I guess I can get that… but the stat points? Really?

All in all, there seems to be two very different experiences in this level range, pre-15 and post-15. Once you get past that barrier, the game plays much like it did before, as far as I can remember (although if I recall correctly that second utility skill unlocked right at 20).

Will having that second slot delayed 4 levels impact my experience? Will my character’s 20s be as boring as mine was? Stay tuned!

as you level up, the skill restrictions ease up, just as the trait restrictions hit. The bundling of skill points and stats creates odd gaps in power (which you generally will only notice fighting higher level stuff)
Its not really harder, just more boring, less options, and more focused on leveling.

Let us know if you hit an XP bug around level 28-30, where a kill is like 8xp and you need 170k xp per level. Not sure if it was dealt with in fixes. First time I felt overwhelmed. Fortunately, it is apparently a bug. Next time I got overwhelmed was when I realised I had to unlock every single trait by doing a different task for each one, or alternatively paying a hundred odd gold to unlock them up front.

Glad you’re doing this, because if it were me, I’d be biased and a white knight fan boy. Pretty much my experience with it too. The different for me was that I had two characters I tested it on, one I leveled from scratched and a higher level character in my 50s. I really like getting rare gear every few levels and stuff to put on it, because normally I just waited until something dropped. Didn’t feel it was worth buying stuff for stuff I’d change in 5 levels anyway.

With the new drops I actually am more powerful than I used to be without buying or crafting anything. And things aren’t nearly as underleveled as they were for me in the old system.

Naturally I could craft or buy stuff, but I never really worried about a piece unless it was 20 levels under.

All in all, the extra stuff I get from higher levels I like enough to not worry so much about the lower levels.

Vayne.8563:

Glad you’re doing this, because if it were me, I’d be biased and a white knight fan boy. Pretty much my experience with it too. The different for me was that I had two characters I tested it on, one I leveled from scratched and a higher level character in my 50s. I really like getting rare gear every few levels and stuff to put on it, because normally I just waited until something dropped. Didn’t feel it was worth buying stuff for stuff I’d change in 5 levels anyway.

With the new drops I actually am more powerful than I used to be without buying or crafting anything. And things aren’t nearly as underleveled as they were for me in the old system.

Naturally I could craft or buy stuff, but I never really worried about a piece unless it was 20 levels under.

All in all, the extra stuff I get from higher levels I like enough to not worry so much about the lower levels.

uhh you say you had the same experience, but he said it was kind of annoying and a bit tedious, whereas you said it was fun and drove you to level more.

I would say that means yall have fairly different experiences

Vayne.8563:

Glad you’re doing this, because if it were me, I’d be biased and a white knight fan boy.

Don’t think that anyone, even you, would be considered a White Knight for calling the NPE a series of annoyances strung out one after another.

nirvana.8245:

Let us know if you hit an XP bug around level 28-30, where a kill is like 8xp and you need 170k xp per level. Not sure if it was dealt with in fixes. First time I felt overwhelmed. Fortunately, it is apparently a bug. Next time I got overwhelmed was when I realised I had to unlock every single trait by doing a different task for each one, or alternatively paying a hundred odd gold to unlock them up front.

I’m missing something here… You only have to unlock a few of the top traits, right? Did that change too?
I haven’t leveled an alt in quite some time, well besides the one I’m working on right now.

Fernling.1729:

I’m missing something here… You only have to unlock a few of the top traits, right?

You have to unlock every single trait individually, except for Minor traits which still function the same as before.

At this point, through 20 levels, I’m really not sure I’d call one way or the other “better” or “worse” rather than “different.” There have been some things that I think have been improved, some that I think haven’t.

I suspect that opinion will change once I hit 30. I haven’t really attempted the trait hunting system, but I know I loathed the elite skill capping of GW1, and this promises to be even more obnoxious.

But I’ll give it an honest shot coming up. I’ll see…

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Glad you’re doing this, because if it were me, I’d be biased and a white knight fan boy. Pretty much my experience with it too. The different for me was that I had two characters I tested it on, one I leveled from scratched and a higher level character in my 50s. I really like getting rare gear every few levels and stuff to put on it, because normally I just waited until something dropped. Didn’t feel it was worth buying stuff for stuff I’d change in 5 levels anyway.

With the new drops I actually am more powerful than I used to be without buying or crafting anything. And things aren’t nearly as underleveled as they were for me in the old system.

Naturally I could craft or buy stuff, but I never really worried about a piece unless it was 20 levels under.

All in all, the extra stuff I get from higher levels I like enough to not worry so much about the lower levels.

uhh you say you had the same experience, but he said it was kind of annoying and a bit tedious, whereas you said it was fun and drove you to level more.

I would say that means yall have fairly different experiences

Here are quotes from some of my threads on leveling (there are a couple more but this should prove something anyway):

“Arguably, in some ways the game is harder for new players. Even some older players are saying it’s more challenging now, because they have less skills and not a fully working downed state. I won’t look for the threads but I’ve seen it mentioned at least twice.
I know when I’m going through starter zones now, I have to move more. I can’t depend on skills. I have to be more careful because I don’t get those other slots that used to protect me unlocked as early.
Be that as it may, we’ve always had level gated abilities and I’m not so sure the time to unlock most of it is so vastly different, that it’s worthy of the outcry we’ve heard.
There are definitely issues with it. I’m not sure why Anet took away the hints section, even if they took away the achievement. They should put it back. It’s weird not to have access to hints and tips all the time.
I don’t think the choices made with the downed state are right at all, but it has nothing to do with level gating.
And I think it’s problematic that leveling with some professions for the first 15 levels is much harder/longer than leveling with other professions.
But over all, I think it’s a step in the right direction. It was always going to need adjustment.”

“Things have always been gated, even in Guild Wars 2. Your skills have always been gated. you didn’t unlock your first slot skill to level 5, your second till level ten and your third to level 20. If you believed it was wrong to gate, it should have been wrong last week too.
Switching weapons was gated at level 7. No one talked about gating until the gating changed. Now nothing should be gated. Most of it was gated before in some way.
Elite skills were at level 30 before, now they’re at 40 but Anet tells us they unlock at about the same number of hours played.
Is this new method slightly more inconvenient. Sure it is. But if Anet is right and this helps keep people just starting out and from free demo weekends, it’s probably worth it. Having more people in the game benefits everyone.
I don’t think these inconveniences are so bad. They don’t significantly change the game for me. Experienced players often have level 20 scrolls anyway. PvPers have tomes galore.
You can still level in EoTM. You can still PvP from level 2.
There is gating, but there has always been gating.”

Bonus quote:

“QFT. Anet takes a lot of flack for not delivering on things announced. But if Anet came out and said, clearly and front in center, that certain things are delayed or have been moved to the back burner, most reasonable fans would understand.
Anet not saying anything is pretty much Anet asking for trouble. The logic is simple.
If I tell my wife we’re probably going on vacation in June to Europe and I can’t make it, I probably should let her know before September. It would save me a lot of grief in the long run.
She might very well be disappointed if I came and told her I couldn’t get time off, or we couldn’t afford a vacation to Europe but she’s understand.”

chemiclord.3978:

I suspect that opinion will change once I hit 30. I haven’t really attempted the trait hunting system, but I know I loathed the elite skill capping of GW1, and this promises to be even more obnoxious.

I never saw why the GW1 system got so much praise. It was nice having a huge number of skills that created a huge build diversity, even if a lot of those potential builds were bad. But, capping skills was extremely tedious. I usually just went to PvP to earn faction to unlock skills so I can learn them from trainers/tomes, because it was usually faster for me than going out of my way to cap skills, especially if those skills were from a boss in a hard to reach area or mission which could sometimes be a headache to get to.

The idea of capping skills was interesting, I suppose. But, the sheer number of skills in the game made it tedious. Fortunately, quite a few skills could be learned from trainers or quests.

Capping elite skills, or even just capping any sort of skills, was my least favorite part of the first Guild Wars. Once I capped several skills, there was really no sense of adventure or reward for capping more skills. It just felt like busywork that I had to do to try out some skills.

Sokia.3710:

Fernling.1729:

I’m missing something here… You only have to unlock a few of the top traits, right?

You have to unlock every single trait individually, except for Minor traits which still function the same as before.

Hmm, I checked out a guide on dulfy. I definitely missed this update. Was this well received?
It looks like it could be fun. Looks like they tried to bring back the skill capture from GW1. I’m kinda excited to try this out. I’m guessing it will feel more like a hassle than it’s worth though.

Fernling.1729:

I definitely missed this update. Was this well received?

Not by me.

Fernling.1729:

Sokia.3710:

Fernling.1729:

I’m missing something here… You only have to unlock a few of the top traits, right?

You have to unlock every single trait individually, except for Minor traits which still function the same as before.

Hmm, I checked out a guide on dulfy. I definitely missed this update. Was this well received?
It looks like it could be fun. Looks like they tried to bring back the skill capture from GW1. I’m kinda excited to try this out. I’m guessing it will feel more like a hassle than it’s worth though.

the execution isnt done that well, for the system its going for.
But you can try it yourself and get back to us on the implementation.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Glad you’re doing this, because if it were me, I’d be biased and a white knight fan boy. Pretty much my experience with it too. The different for me was that I had two characters I tested it on, one I leveled from scratched and a higher level character in my 50s. I really like getting rare gear every few levels and stuff to put on it, because normally I just waited until something dropped. Didn’t feel it was worth buying stuff for stuff I’d change in 5 levels anyway.

With the new drops I actually am more powerful than I used to be without buying or crafting anything. And things aren’t nearly as underleveled as they were for me in the old system.

Naturally I could craft or buy stuff, but I never really worried about a piece unless it was 20 levels under.

All in all, the extra stuff I get from higher levels I like enough to not worry so much about the lower levels.

uhh you say you had the same experience, but he said it was kind of annoying and a bit tedious, whereas you said it was fun and drove you to level more.

I would say that means yall have fairly different experiences

Here are quotes from some of my threads on leveling (there are a couple more but this should prove something anyway):

“Arguably, in some ways the game is harder for new players. Even some older players are saying it’s more challenging now, because they have less skills and not a fully working downed state. I won’t look for the threads but I’ve seen it mentioned at least twice.
I know when I’m going through starter zones now, I have to move more. I can’t depend on skills. I have to be more careful because I don’t get those other slots that used to protect me unlocked as early.
Be that as it may, we’ve always had level gated abilities and I’m not so sure the time to unlock most of it is so vastly different, that it’s worthy of the outcry we’ve heard.
There are definitely issues with it. I’m not sure why Anet took away the hints section, even if they took away the achievement. They should put it back. It’s weird not to have access to hints and tips all the time.
I don’t think the choices made with the downed state are right at all, but it has nothing to do with level gating.
And I think it’s problematic that leveling with some professions for the first 15 levels is much harder/longer than leveling with other professions.
But over all, I think it’s a step in the right direction. It was always going to need adjustment.”

“Things have always been gated, even in Guild Wars 2. Your skills have always been gated. you didn’t unlock your first slot skill to level 5, your second till level ten and your third to level 20. If you believed it was wrong to gate, it should have been wrong last week too.
Switching weapons was gated at level 7. No one talked about gating until the gating changed. Now nothing should be gated. Most of it was gated before in some way.
Elite skills were at level 30 before, now they’re at 40 but Anet tells us they unlock at about the same number of hours played.
Is this new method slightly more inconvenient. Sure it is. But if Anet is right and this helps keep people just starting out and from free demo weekends, it’s probably worth it. Having more people in the game benefits everyone.
I don’t think these inconveniences are so bad. They don’t significantly change the game for me. Experienced players often have level 20 scrolls anyway. PvPers have tomes galore.
You can still level in EoTM. You can still PvP from level 2.
There is gating, but there has always been gating.”

Bonus quote:

“QFT. Anet takes a lot of flack for not delivering on things announced. But if Anet came out and said, clearly and front in center, that certain things are delayed or have been moved to the back burner, most reasonable fans would understand.
Anet not saying anything is pretty much Anet asking for trouble. The logic is simple.
If I tell my wife we’re probably going on vacation in June to Europe and I can’t make it, I probably should let her know before September. It would save me a lot of grief in the long run.
She might very well be disappointed if I came and told her I couldn’t get time off, or we couldn’t afford a vacation to Europe but she’s understand.”

didnt really see the connection, maybe too much text, but am i to assume you also think that overall the changes make the game a bit more boring and annoying?

Sokia.3710:

Fernling.1729:

I’m missing something here… You only have to unlock a few of the top traits, right?

You have to unlock every single trait individually, except for Minor traits which still function the same as before.

But you don’t have to unlock all of them, just the ones you want to use. You can’t honestly say that you’ve used all the traits in all the trait lines.

phys.7689:

Fernling.1729:

Sokia.3710:

Fernling.1729:

I’m missing something here… You only have to unlock a few of the top traits, right?

You have to unlock every single trait individually, except for Minor traits which still function the same as before.

Hmm, I checked out a guide on dulfy. I definitely missed this update. Was this well received?
It looks like it could be fun. Looks like they tried to bring back the skill capture from GW1. I’m kinda excited to try this out. I’m guessing it will feel more like a hassle than it’s worth though.

the execution isnt done that well, for the system its going for.
But you can try it yourself and get back to us on the implementation.

It probably won’t be for months if ever.. lol
I’m not a big alt guy and typically play for a few weeks a year in gw2. Play for a week or two and get bored and then take a 3-6 month break. I just feel like I come back to the same old thing each time.

Behellagh.1468:

Sokia.3710:

Fernling.1729:

I’m missing something here… You only have to unlock a few of the top traits, right?

You have to unlock every single trait individually, except for Minor traits which still function the same as before.

But you don’t have to unlock all of them, just the ones you want to use. You can’t honestly say that you’ve used all the traits in all the trait lines.

most people arent that sure what they want to use until they try them, id say for most jobs i have tried 90% of traits at some point or another. I probably have tried more than many people, but i would say most people try, or at least are interested in at least 30% of the traits available. (seeing as how you have access to at least 49% of the traits in the game even with only 1 build)

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

snip
All in all, the extra stuff I get from higher levels I like enough to not worry so much about the lower levels.

uhh you say you had the same experience, but he said it was kind of annoying and a bit tedious, whereas you said it was fun and drove you to level more.

I would say that means yall have fairly different experiences

Here are quotes from some of my threads on leveling (there are a couple more but this should prove something anyway):

“Arguably, in some ways the game is harder for new players. Even some older players are saying it’s more challenging now, because they have less skills and not a fully working downed state. I won’t look for the threads but I’ve seen it mentioned at least twice.
I know when I’m going through starter zones now, I have to move more. I can’t depend on skills. I have to be more careful because I don’t get those other slots that used to protect me unlocked as early.

Be that as it may, we’ve always had level gated abilities and I’m not so sure the time to unlock most of it is so vastly different, that it’s worthy of the outcry we’ve heard.
There are definitely issues with it. I’m not sure why Anet took away the hints section, even if they took away the achievement. They should put it back. It’s weird not to have access to hints and tips all the time.
I don’t think the choices made with the downed state are right at all, but it has nothing to do with level gating.
And I think it’s problematic that leveling with some professions for the first 15 levels is much harder/longer than leveling with other professions.
But over all, I think it’s a step in the right direction. It was always going to need adjustment."

“Things have always been gated, even in Guild Wars 2. Your skills have always been gated. you didn’t unlock your first slot skill to level 5, your second till level ten and your third to level 20. If you believed it was wrong to gate, it should have been wrong last week too.
Switching weapons was gated at level 7. No one talked about gating until the gating changed. Now nothing should be gated. Most of it was gated before in some way.
Elite skills were at level 30 before, now they’re at 40 but Anet tells us they unlock at about the same number of hours played.
Is this new method slightly more inconvenient. Sure it is. But if Anet is right and this helps keep people just starting out and from free demo weekends, it’s probably worth it. Having more people in the game benefits everyone.
I don’t think these inconveniences are so bad. They don’t significantly change the game for me. Experienced players often have level 20 scrolls anyway. PvPers have tomes galore.
You can still level in EoTM. You can still PvP from level 2.
There is gating, but there has always been gating.”

snip

didnt really see the connection, maybe too much text, but am i to assume you also think that overall the changes make the game a bit more boring and annoying?

I’m saying, and said from the beginning, I got through the 15 levels so fast, the annoyance barely registered. I specifically didn’t like how downed skills unlocked. I didn’t care about the skill point unlocks (though I understand other people did).

I liked getting the little ding and click on something every level.

So yeah, annoyances, but there were fun bits in it. Obviously, I don’t personally need to have my skills gated and it didn’t make leveling more entertaining for me. But then I didn’t think that patch was meant to make my life better. It was meant to keep new people in the game, which Anet believes it will. I can’t say because I’m not a new player.

My biggest comment was about the fan overreaction. It’s not that it’s not inconvenient. It’s not so horrible that I think I’d call a nationwide boycott, particularly if it does help people stay in the game.

My problems were with the misinformation (quite a bit of that going around), the over-reaction, the threatening, the posturing, the name calling. I said all along it would require adjustment even from the beginning, but I assumed it would be adjusted (and I still believe that).

It’s for new players to get them into the game. It’s more inconvenient but faster those first levels, which was fine by me. And then till 80 I continue to get stuff every level.

So yes, more inconvenient, does not equal (to me anyway), let’s all leave the game and go play that lovely Arch Age (which I understand may have a problem or two of its own and that’s essentially head start).

Behellagh.1468:

Sokia.3710:

Fernling.1729:

I’m missing something here… You only have to unlock a few of the top traits, right?

You have to unlock every single trait individually, except for Minor traits which still function the same as before.

But you don’t have to unlock all of them, just the ones you want to use. You can’t honestly say that you’ve used all the traits in all the trait lines.

I have and I do. I regularly experiment with different traits. I have setups that I prefer depending on whether I am doing WvW, dungeons, open world or bosses. Each build varies quite alot. Im always looking to run optimally. Its kind of wierd. From my knowledge, Anet recently removed the cost gate on unlocking traits. Then they go and add what would equate to months of grinding for an average player just to unlock traits. It doesn’t bother me much as a vet who has experimented with each and knows what is optimal for each task. But if your a new player your not going to know what is what until you have tried it.

Behellagh.1468:

Sokia.3710:

Fernling.1729:

I’m missing something here… You only have to unlock a few of the top traits, right?

You have to unlock every single trait individually, except for Minor traits which still function the same as before.

But you don’t have to unlock all of them, just the ones you want to use. You can’t honestly say that you’ve used all the traits in all the trait lines.

I finally got back to leveling a sub-80 alt. He was made after April but before September. I took him from level 35 to 36 today, got a trait point, and said OK! Time to get my fall damage trait! (That being my first trait choice on every alt ever). He’s a Necro. And apparently the unlock is to do Obsidium Sanctum.

HELL no.

That ain’t happening.

I scanned other traits. The kill-a-single-tough-thing ones were fine for me, the do TA and CM Story look to be simple enough, but 100% map completion of a zone for others? I think my trait selection is going to be dictated by which tasks I can do, not what build I actually want. At least for this alt who mostly exists to test out some PS and systems, not to be a core character.

So while it sounds like levels 1 to 15 aren’t the shambles many claim, later levels may in fact be annoying if I want to test out Necro traits I haven’t used on my two 80 Necros. That’s how I keep alts fresh, I give them different flavors of the profession.

Donari.5237:

Behellagh.1468:

Sokia.3710:

Fernling.1729:

I’m missing something here… You only have to unlock a few of the top traits, right?

You have to unlock every single trait individually, except for Minor traits which still function the same as before.

But you don’t have to unlock all of them, just the ones you want to use. You can’t honestly say that you’ve used all the traits in all the trait lines.

I finally got back to leveling a sub-80 alt. He was made after April but before September. I took him from level 35 to 36 today, got a trait point, and said OK! Time to get my fall damage trait! (That being my first trait choice on every alt ever). He’s a Necro. And apparently the unlock is to do Obsidium Sanctum.

HELL no.

That ain’t happening.

I scanned other traits. The kill-a-single-tough-thing ones were fine for me, the do TA and CM Story look to be simple enough, but 100% map completion of a zone for others? I think my trait selection is going to be dictated by which tasks I can do, not what build I actually want. At least for this alt who mostly exists to test out some PS and systems, not to be a core character.

So while it sounds like levels 1 to 15 aren’t the shambles many claim, later levels may in fact be annoying if I want to test out Necro traits I haven’t used on my two 80 Necros. That’s how I keep alts fresh, I give them different flavors of the profession.

Yep, Anet really dropped the ball on the trait unlocking thing.

@phys

I think the reason you may have thought I had more fun leveling, is because I referred to someone else’s thread and didn’t put the “I Had more Fun Leveling” in quotes. That person who posted, who’s thread I was referring to had more fun leveling. Easy enough to misconstrue if you’re reading fast. I was never something I said.

Vayne.8563:

Yep, Anet really dropped the ball on the trait unlocking thing.

The main issue that I have is that some of the traits need simpler tasks to unlock. Difficult events or events which require a group, and things like mapping are a bit exsessive just to unlock a single trait. And, Obsidian Sanctum? Seriously? Is that really a requirement for one of the traits?

I mean, even capturing elite skills in Guild Wars 1 sounds less tedious, and some of those capture points were way out of the way. But at least there, you only had to kill a single monster and not uncover the entire map.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

Yep, Anet really dropped the ball on the trait unlocking thing.

The main issue that I have is that some of the traits need simpler tasks to unlock. Difficult events or events which require a group, and things like mapping are a bit exsessive just to unlock a single trait. And, Obsidian Sanctum? Seriously? Is that really a requirement for one of the traits?

I mean, even capturing elite skills in Guild Wars 1 sounds less tedious, and some of those capture points were way out of the way. But at least there, you only had to kill a single monster and not uncover the entire map.

I don’t think unlocking any trait should require group content. That is to say no dungeons, no giant grub in WvW, no taking a tower even. Don’t force people to do stuff they hate to get this stuff or overpay.

It doesn’t make the game more fun for anyone.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t think unlocking any trait should require group content. That is to say no dungeons, no giant grub in WvW, no taking a tower even.

I agree. I don’t necessarily mind a challenge to unlock skills and traits. I mean, some of the stuff in the first Guild Wars was pretty annoying to unlock for me. But, having to do things which is basically impossible to solo just to unlock fundamental skills and traits for my profession is very discouraging. Fortunately, you can just buy traits from the trainers.

I can solo a tower, actually. But, that is with all of my traits almost completely unlocked, and hoping that the enemy doesn’t notice me catapulting the wall down before I even get inside the tower. Nobody who isn’t already level 80 with access to a lot of traits and at least exotic gear is going to be able to solo a tower, and even if they did it would be luck that they were able to kill the lord before the opposing server came to defend.

Donari.5237:

Behellagh.1468:

Sokia.3710:

Fernling.1729:

I’m missing something here… You only have to unlock a few of the top traits, right?

You have to unlock every single trait individually, except for Minor traits which still function the same as before.

But you don’t have to unlock all of them, just the ones you want to use. You can’t honestly say that you’ve used all the traits in all the trait lines.

I finally got back to leveling a sub-80 alt. He was made after April but before September. I took him from level 35 to 36 today, got a trait point, and said OK! Time to get my fall damage trait! (That being my first trait choice on every alt ever). He’s a Necro. And apparently the unlock is to do Obsidium Sanctum.

HELL no.

That ain’t happening.

I scanned other traits. The kill-a-single-tough-thing ones were fine for me, the do TA and CM Story look to be simple enough, but 100% map completion of a zone for others? I think my trait selection is going to be dictated by which tasks I can do, not what build I actually want. At least for this alt who mostly exists to test out some PS and systems, not to be a core character.

So while it sounds like levels 1 to 15 aren’t the shambles many claim, later levels may in fact be annoying if I want to test out Necro traits I haven’t used on my two 80 Necros. That’s how I keep alts fresh, I give them different flavors of the profession.

Yeah I know. There are a couple of adept traits for thieves which are similarly heinous. They should have made all the unlocks at the level or below where you can slot that trait. If they thought that trait as too powerful then nerf it or move it to a higher tier. Good thing it’s only 10s and 2 SPs to avoid then. Guess you have to do more SP challenges and not go on a skill buying spree until 80+.

Well some players wanted the game more difficult…

Behellagh.1468:

Yeah I know. There are a couple of adept traits for thieves which are similarly heinous. They should have made all the unlocks at the level or below where you can slot that trait

I have no idea why they would even make it to where you need to go to a higher level area than the level that it takes to get enough trait points to get that trait tier. That is hilariously bad design. How did that even leave the brainstorming room?

Probably they figured that players would single slot a number of trait lines first and by then, if they’ve been playing the whole game would have several of each adept traits unlocked and can switch to those, etc. Rather than slotting an adept trait with their 2nd trait point.

Guys I like dropping caltrops on a dodge.

Sokia.3710:

Behellagh.1468:

Yeah I know. There are a couple of adept traits for thieves which are similarly heinous. They should have made all the unlocks at the level or below where you can slot that trait

I have no idea why they would even make it to where you need to go to a higher level area than the level that it takes to get enough trait points to get that trait tier. That is hilariously bad design. How did that even leave the brainstorming room?

I have a working theory. But it’s just that, a theory. I’d have to do a lot more testing to see if this is what happened. Anet didn’t believe people could make their own builds so they made certain traits they saw as advantageous to leveling very easy to get (like the chest in Kessex which anyone can do), and put the ones that were much less beneficial (on average anyway) behind harder targets…trying to guide people to the easier stuff that might help them right away.

Just a shot in the dark here.

Vayne.8563:

I have a working theory. But it’s just that, a theory. I’d have to do a lot more testing to see if this is what happened. Anet didn’t believe people could make their own builds so they made certain traits they saw as advantageous to leveling very easy to get (like the chest in Kessex which anyone can do), and put the ones that were much less beneficial (on average anyway) behind harder targets…trying to guide people to the easier stuff that might help them right away.

That actually makes a lot of sense.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

I have a working theory. But it’s just that, a theory. I’d have to do a lot more testing to see if this is what happened. Anet didn’t believe people could make their own builds so they made certain traits they saw as advantageous to leveling very easy to get (like the chest in Kessex which anyone can do), and put the ones that were much less beneficial (on average anyway) behind harder targets…trying to guide people to the easier stuff that might help them right away.

That actually makes a lot of sense.

Whenever something happens that makes no sense to me, I think I must have missed something. I figure they didn’t get together in a room and draw straws. I figure they have a reason whether I know it or not (or whether it’s a good reason or not).

I was leveling a character, I honestly don’t remember which profession now, to test the April 15th patch. I got the kessex chest without even realizing it was an unlock but when I looked I was like, okay I can see the value of this one being so easy. But I didn’t follow through and check everything else because I’m lazy as hell. lol

Vayne.8563:

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

I have a working theory. But it’s just that, a theory. I’d have to do a lot more testing to see if this is what happened. Anet didn’t believe people could make their own builds so they made certain traits they saw as advantageous to leveling very easy to get (like the chest in Kessex which anyone can do), and put the ones that were much less beneficial (on average anyway) behind harder targets…trying to guide people to the easier stuff that might help them right away.

That actually makes a lot of sense.

Whenever something happens that makes no sense to me, I think I must have missed something. I figure they didn’t get together in a room and draw straws. I figure they have a reason whether I know it or not (or whether it’s a good reason or not).

I was leveling a character, I honestly don’t remember which profession now, to test the April 15th patch. I got the kessex chest without even realizing it was an unlock but when I looked I was like, okay I can see the value of this one being so easy. But I didn’t follow through and check everything else because I’m lazy as hell. lol

This might explain why my conjured weapons ele has traits I want stuck behind some eye raising things, and one of my more straightforward warriors doesn’t have to do much to get his. Nice find if its right.

Well a jump puzzle with one of the largest potential falls granting you fall protection may also indicate a theory. You get a trait from an event that ties to the trait somehow in concept.

Uncatchable, the caltrop drop on dodge for thieves, is located on the 1st floor in a mini dungeon in a level 58 area. I don’t think I’ve done this mini dungeon before so that would be a new experience. But level 58 for a trait I can slot at 36?

The problem i see with most people who complain about the new systems is 99% of em havent leveled to 80 in the new system. As a vet myself played since beta and my new ranger just reached lvl80 yesterday and even tho the minor inconveniences might put off people the end result was great the rewards just awsome. I had racial skins, dyes, ectos, exotic weapons and armor, master crafting bags full of t6 mats.

As for story quests those mob bags you get in the end have better loot in em aswell than the usual bags dropping from mobs in the last 3 or so levels of the story I played i got about 10 different lodestones out of em.

My advice to people is just play at around 40ish you gonna start asking yourself why did I complain bout this in the first place

chemiclord.3978:

(Additional note: the simplification of some heart quests was… humorously poor. Were people really having so much trouble with “see cow, grab bundle, feed cow?”)

besides the fact that I agree with you on this…
I am SO gonna steal this from you as my new Signature..“see cow, grab bundle, feed cow?” LOL PRICELESS!!
tnx for the effort on the new levelling stuff

JCROY.5730:

chemiclord.3978:

(Additional note: the simplification of some heart quests was… humorously poor. Were people really having so much trouble with “see cow, grab bundle, feed cow?”)

besides the fact that I agree with you on this…
I am SO gonna steal this from you as my new Signature..“see cow, grab bundle, feed cow?” LOL PRICELESS!!
tnx for the effort on the new levelling stuff

You do know why the cow bundle was removed right ? If you don’t then let me tell you. The lazy key farmers used the bundles speedbuff to run to the story quest at the bandit cave and thats why not because it was to hard to do the quest