Guild Wars 2

I had an idea to streamline the trait learning experience. What if, instead of doing specific content to unlock specific traits, doing those various activities instead gave you Trait tomes (which can be split into Adept/Master/Grandmaster Tomes)? These trait tomes can then be spent to learn whatever traits you have your eye on.

So, say you want Cleansing Ire as a Warrior, which is a Master trait in the Toughness line. Ordinarily you’d need to kill the Vidius Flame Tribune in Fireheart Rise to get this, or purchase it for 50s + 5 skill points. Under this new system, you could instead do a number of different activities to earn a Master trait tome, which could include:

1. Killing one of a number of powerful Champions in the level 30 – 40 zone range.

2. Doing a Jumping Puzzle in the level 30 – 40 zone range.

3. Getting map completion for a level 30 – 40 map.

4. Capturing a specific Tower in WvW/EotM.

And just to cater for those who want quick unlocks, the gold+SP acquisition method remains too.

You can’t get multiple tomes for repeating the same action, so for a player who wanted to learn every single trait, they’d need to go out and experience a variety of content (or spend money+SP). However, in my experience only a handful of traits actually get used at all; most players will just settle into a build they’re comfortable with and then never deviate from it for the rest of their game life. With that in mind, it’s quite possible that players might only need to earn a couple of these Tomes to use whatever build they are working towards.

Osculim.2983:

JCROY.5730:

chemiclord.3978:

(Additional note: the simplification of some heart quests was… humorously poor. Were people really having so much trouble with “see cow, grab bundle, feed cow?”)

besides the fact that I agree with you on this…
I am SO gonna steal this from you as my new Signature..“see cow, grab bundle, feed cow?” LOL PRICELESS!!
tnx for the effort on the new levelling stuff

You do know why the cow bundle was removed right ? If you don’t then let me tell you. The lazy key farmers used the bundles speedbuff to run to the story quest at the bandit cave and thats why not because it was to hard to do the quest

Not sure that this is the case. In Plains of Ashford the removed the cattle prods from the cow event as well.

I think they want to leave the skill bar unchanged, and let people get used to that. I think it’s silly.

Yeah. Especially so for Thieves (Steal) and Engineers (Kits), since their skill bars will change very frequently if they make use of their class mechanics.

Zaxares.5419:

Yeah. Especially so for Thieves (Steal) and Engineers (Kits), since their skill bars will change very frequently if they make use of their class mechanics.

Also eles with conjured weapons, necros with death shroud, warriors with banner, though I think only the thief unlocks that skill early enough in the game for this to be of major concern.

Vayne.8563:

Osculim.2983:

JCROY.5730:

chemiclord.3978:

(Additional note: the simplification of some heart quests was… humorously poor. Were people really having so much trouble with “see cow, grab bundle, feed cow?”)

besides the fact that I agree with you on this…
I am SO gonna steal this from you as my new Signature..“see cow, grab bundle, feed cow?” LOL PRICELESS!!
tnx for the effort on the new levelling stuff

You do know why the cow bundle was removed right ? If you don’t then let me tell you. The lazy key farmers used the bundles speedbuff to run to the story quest at the bandit cave and thats why not because it was to hard to do the quest

Not sure that this is the case. In Plains of Ashford the removed the cattle prods from the cow event as well.

The cattle prods were removed because keyfarmers were using the cattle prods to get to the Tela Range story instance. You didn’t think only humans could keyfarm, right?

(and, just in case it wasn’t clear: sarcasm)

Osculim.2983:

JCROY.5730:

chemiclord.3978:

(Additional note: the simplification of some heart quests was… humorously poor. Were people really having so much trouble with “see cow, grab bundle, feed cow?”)

besides the fact that I agree with you on this…
I am SO gonna steal this from you as my new Signature..“see cow, grab bundle, feed cow?” LOL PRICELESS!!
tnx for the effort on the new levelling stuff

You do know why the cow bundle was removed right ? If you don’t then let me tell you. The lazy key farmers used the bundles speedbuff to run to the story quest at the bandit cave and thats why not because it was to hard to do the quest

Mostly, I loved the quote :P I do not feel I am missing out of something. Maybe I do not take the game as seriously as a lot of other people do

Sokia.3710:

Behellagh.1468:

Yeah I know. There are a couple of adept traits for thieves which are similarly heinous. They should have made all the unlocks at the level or below where you can slot that trait

I have no idea why they would even make it to where you need to go to a higher level area than the level that it takes to get enough trait points to get that trait tier. That is hilariously bad design. How did that even leave the brainstorming room?

not that i agree with the reason, but they did it because

adept traits are content for people level 30-60 now.
so, most of the content is in that range, this essentially means some traits that were once available as level 15 traits, are now seen as obtainable at 60

also, they did not assign them based on difficulty, usefulness, or what they think people should try to get first, they assign them arbitrarily based on what number trait they are. the VI trait on every job is in the same place.

they didnt have enough high level zones, so some they just sprinkled in anywhere. Some of those have been rescinded, like the frostgorge adept trait.

overall id say the system was pretty poorly implemented/designed.

It’s nice to finally see some level headed thinking and trying, versus the seriously out of control rage from people who hadn’t even tried it yet!

I look forward to seeing this more as it you go. I am already at level 40 with my new trial and so far I have loved it (this is my first new toon since the trait changes).

CalamityO.2890:

chemiclord.3978:

One part that WAS a handy improvement was the weapon skill unlocking. Yeah, for all the spite it received, getting to level 10 and having ALL weapon skills unlocked for ALL weapons at that point… I liked that. No more having to grind through every weapon. So yeah… the haters are wrong here. Sorry guys. This way is better.

^ This. As experienced / vets – weapon skills should be second nature as to what they do (alts should be loving this). This is literally cruise control for the experienced / vet. I really don’t understand why they are heavily against this. It makes less work for the exp / vet players. They should be using it to their advantage.

As another poster stated, the NPE does need some adjustments to make it more palatable for everyone.

Eh, they just changed it to how other MMOs do it already by tying skill unlocks to levels. The difference is that other MMOs give you at least 2-4 skills immediately, while we’re stuck spamming 1 through the intro… bleh. That’s 10 minutes just running around letting the autoattack kill things for you, 20 (ish? dunno how long it takes a completely new person to hit level 4) with essentially 1 button to press, then however long with 2 buttons to press… that seems really, really boring.

As a vet I have no problems with the changes, but a new player gets dropped in a blank map with no idea what everything does, and the intro literally gives zero direction as to what to do next. Are new players supposed to just wander the map aimlessly for 10 levels? How 1999.

Holding off the second chapter of the living story until level 10 makes absolutely no sense, ESPECIALLY since the next couple chapters also doubled as tutorials. Early game is all about introducing players to key concepts and mechanics. The living story is supposed to be one of the major features in this game… but ANet is making new players wander around for at least an hour before they see chapter 2. I can’t see any logical reasons for a complete lack of goals in the early game when most other single player and multiplayer games are designed with a more guided early experience, including THIS one before these changes.

If the reasons for gating the story are because of key farmers, then they should’ve gated the story chapter that awards the key to level 10, since it was several chapters in… problem solved.

Silentsins.3726:

Eh, they just changed it to how other MMOs do it already by tying skill unlocks to levels. The difference is that other MMOs give you at least 2-4 skills immediately, while we’re stuck spamming 1 through the intro… bleh. That’s 10 minutes just running around letting the autoattack kill things for you, 20 (ish? dunno how long it takes a completely new person to hit level 4) with essentially 1 button to press, then however long with 2 buttons to press… that seems really, really boring.

I think that’s one of my main issues. Guild Wars 2 has so few skills to begin with, and now our skills our gated. You can go play any FTP MMO and start with at least one or two skills, and get a new skill every five levels, with at least as many if not more skills than are in Guild Wars 2 and no limited action bar.

MikaHR.1978:

before: grind mobs, grind mobs and then grind some more mobs for every single skill of every single weapon or NO weapons skills for YOU!

That’s not how it worked for at least half a year now. There was a change sometimes ago, that made it so each new skill required less grind the higher your level – at ~15-20 you needed one-two hits to unlock any, even the last one.

Vayne.8563:

I have a working theory. But it’s just that, a theory. I’d have to do a lot more testing to see if this is what happened. Anet didn’t believe people could make their own builds so they made certain traits they saw as advantageous to leveling very easy to get (like the chest in Kessex which anyone can do), and put the ones that were much less beneficial (on average anyway) behind harder targets…trying to guide people to the easier stuff that might help them right away.

That might have been sensible, except for one small point. The unlocks are the same for every class, while the trait spreads for reasonable builds for every class are different. What works for a warrior would be a terrible build for a guardian or ele.

chemiclord.3978:

One part that WAS a handy improvement was the weapon skill unlocking. Yeah, for all the spite it received, getting to level 10 and having ALL weapon skills unlocked for ALL weapons at that point… I liked that. No more having to grind through every weapon. So yeah… the haters are wrong here. Sorry guys. This way is better.

Agh… Sorry friend, but this is your subjective opinion. It means that you like it, that’s all. And if you like it, it doesn’t mean that this change is better.

:p

Astralporing.1957:

MikaHR.1978:

before: grind mobs, grind mobs and then grind some more mobs for every single skill of every single weapon or NO weapons skills for YOU!

That’s not how it worked for at least half a year now. There was a change sometimes ago, that made it so each new skill required less grind the higher your level – at ~15-20 you needed one-two hits to unlock any, even the last one.

The discussion is what happens for 1st few levels (up to 10) which would be 6ish in old xp curve.

Now at level 10 you have ALL weapon skills unlocked whether you depopulated lvl1 boars or not. What happened in lvl15+ in old leveling curve is irrelevant.

Kreslin.6832:

Agh… Sorry friend, but this is your subjective opinion. It means that you like it, that’s all. And if you like it, it doesn’t mean that this change is better.

:p

Im sorry, but giving freedom on how to play is much better than having only 1 way.

And now you can do what you want and youll get weapon skills early on, opposed to before when you literally had to depopulate lvl1 boars for that.

MikaHR.1978:

Astralporing.1957:

MikaHR.1978:

before: grind mobs, grind mobs and then grind some more mobs for every single skill of every single weapon or NO weapons skills for YOU!

That’s not how it worked for at least half a year now. There was a change sometimes ago, that made it so each new skill required less grind the higher your level – at ~15-20 you needed one-two hits to unlock any, even the last one.

The discussion is what happens for 1st few levels (up to 10) which would be 6ish in old xp curve.

Now at level 10 you have ALL weapon skills unlocked whether you depopulated lvl1 boars or not. What happened in lvl15+ in old leveling curve is irrelevant.

actually this is a discussion of leveling in general, the npe doesnt stop at 10, in fact traits is actually the first part of the npe, i guess they didnt have that ready for US in time.
regardless, this patches npe stretches skills you out to 40, so if your going to discuss the changes, it isnt just about what happens from 1-10

and btw, skills unlocked super fast at 10 as well.

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

Astralporing.1957:

MikaHR.1978:

before: grind mobs, grind mobs and then grind some more mobs for every single skill of every single weapon or NO weapons skills for YOU!

That’s not how it worked for at least half a year now. There was a change sometimes ago, that made it so each new skill required less grind the higher your level – at ~15-20 you needed one-two hits to unlock any, even the last one.

The discussion is what happens for 1st few levels (up to 10) which would be 6ish in old xp curve.

Now at level 10 you have ALL weapon skills unlocked whether you depopulated lvl1 boars or not. What happened in lvl15+ in old leveling curve is irrelevant.

actually this is a discussion of leveling in general, the npe doesnt stop at 10, in fact traits is actually the first part of the npe, i guess they didnt have that ready for US in time.
regardless, this patches npe stretches skills you out to 40, so if your going to discuss the changes, it isnt just about what happens from 1-10

and btw, skills unlocked super fast at 10 as well.

Its very helpful to read what youre responding to so your answer makes sense.

Hint: its about weapon skills SPECIFICALLY

Please, elsborate what bothers you the most about weapon skills in lvl 10+.

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

Astralporing.1957:

MikaHR.1978:

before: grind mobs, grind mobs and then grind some more mobs for every single skill of every single weapon or NO weapons skills for YOU!

That’s not how it worked for at least half a year now. There was a change sometimes ago, that made it so each new skill required less grind the higher your level – at ~15-20 you needed one-two hits to unlock any, even the last one.

The discussion is what happens for 1st few levels (up to 10) which would be 6ish in old xp curve.

Now at level 10 you have ALL weapon skills unlocked whether you depopulated lvl1 boars or not. What happened in lvl15+ in old leveling curve is irrelevant.

actually this is a discussion of leveling in general, the npe doesnt stop at 10, in fact traits is actually the first part of the npe, i guess they didnt have that ready for US in time.
regardless, this patches npe stretches skills you out to 40, so if your going to discuss the changes, it isnt just about what happens from 1-10

and btw, skills unlocked super fast at 10 as well.

Its very helpful to read what youre responding to so your answer makes sense.

Hint: its about weapon skills SPECIFICALLY

Please, elsborate what bothers you the most about weapon skills in lvl 10+.

and btw, skills unlocked super fast at level 10 as well.

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

Astralporing.1957:

MikaHR.1978:

before: grind mobs, grind mobs and then grind some more mobs for every single skill of every single weapon or NO weapons skills for YOU!

That’s not how it worked for at least half a year now. There was a change sometimes ago, that made it so each new skill required less grind the higher your level – at ~15-20 you needed one-two hits to unlock any, even the last one.

The discussion is what happens for 1st few levels (up to 10) which would be 6ish in old xp curve.

Now at level 10 you have ALL weapon skills unlocked whether you depopulated lvl1 boars or not. What happened in lvl15+ in old leveling curve is irrelevant.

actually this is a discussion of leveling in general, the npe doesnt stop at 10, in fact traits is actually the first part of the npe, i guess they didnt have that ready for US in time.
regardless, this patches npe stretches skills you out to 40, so if your going to discuss the changes, it isnt just about what happens from 1-10

and btw, skills unlocked super fast at 10 as well.

Its very helpful to read what youre responding to so your answer makes sense.

Hint: its about weapon skills SPECIFICALLY

Please, elsborate what bothers you the most about weapon skills in lvl 10+.

and btw, skills unlocked super fast at level 10 as well.

No they didnt.

And lvl10 NOW is lvl 6ish BEFORE.

Apples to apples (unless you have some sort of agenda which you seem to have)

Astralporing.1957:

MikaHR.1978:

before: grind mobs, grind mobs and then grind some more mobs for every single skill of every single weapon or NO weapons skills for YOU!

That’s not how it worked for at least half a year now. There was a change sometimes ago, that made it so each new skill required less grind the higher your level – at ~15-20 you needed one-two hits to unlock any, even the last one.

Vayne.8563:

I have a working theory. But it’s just that, a theory. I’d have to do a lot more testing to see if this is what happened. Anet didn’t believe people could make their own builds so they made certain traits they saw as advantageous to leveling very easy to get (like the chest in Kessex which anyone can do), and put the ones that were much less beneficial (on average anyway) behind harder targets…trying to guide people to the easier stuff that might help them right away.

That might have been sensible, except for one small point. The unlocks are the same for every class, while the trait spreads for reasonable builds for every class are different. What works for a warrior would be a terrible build for a guardian or ele.

Sure but each build as different traits. So the idea that they could simple look at the what trait we want to be decent and put that trait for each profession at kessex, so it unlocks early. A trait like the falling trait for each class they gate, because they don’t consider that something useful for low level characters trying to survive.

Vayne.8563:

A trait like the falling trait for each class they gate, because they don’t consider that something useful for low level characters trying to survive.

But, what if someone wants to do jumping puzzles, and they are really bad at jumping.

Actually, I almost never use the falling trait. The only time I remember equipping that was to drop off ledges in the Borderlands maps to survive a fall that would be fatal without the trait. It can also be fun to troll people sometimes by using the trait and falling off a ledge, and seeing if they will chase you and die because they don’t have the trait equipped.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

A trait like the falling trait for each class they gate, because they don’t consider that something useful for low level characters trying to survive.

But, what if someone wants to do jumping puzzles, and they are really bad at jumping.

Actually, I almost never use the falling trait. The only time I remember equipping that was to drop off ledges in the Borderlands maps to survive a fall that would be fatal without the trait. It can also be fun to troll people sometimes by using the trait and falling off a ledge, and seeing if they will chase you and die because they don’t have the trait equipped.

The point is they’re assuming a first time character is going through the game and needs survival help not JP help. If you’re really bad at JPs particularly why would you stop all progress to do them. The trait CAN be bought but they want to, I think, take the guess work out of it for the early stuff. Stuff like the falling damage trait is the perfect trait to lock behind a harder thing, because it’s of less general use.

Second or third characters could easily buy it.

Oh, nice thread. I hadn’t seen it when I tried to put together a similar kind of reflection of the leveling process. I agree with you that it’s not as "bad" as it first appears, with many things not blocked but just not mentioned or shown to new players until later levels. I still find that illogical, and I maintain that there are other ways to introduce new players to the game mechanics that would be less frustrating for everyone else involved.

It sounds like you were more forgiving of these things.

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

MikaHR.1978:

before: grind mobs, grind mobs and then grind some more mobs for every single skill of every single weapon or NO weapons skills for YOU!

That’s not how it worked for at least half a year now. There was a change sometimes ago, that made it so each new skill required less grind the higher your level – at ~15-20 you needed one-two hits to unlock any, even the last one.

Vayne.8563:

I have a working theory. But it’s just that, a theory. I’d have to do a lot more testing to see if this is what happened. Anet didn’t believe people could make their own builds so they made certain traits they saw as advantageous to leveling very easy to get (like the chest in Kessex which anyone can do), and put the ones that were much less beneficial (on average anyway) behind harder targets…trying to guide people to the easier stuff that might help them right away.

That might have been sensible, except for one small point. The unlocks are the same for every class, while the trait spreads for reasonable builds for every class are different. What works for a warrior would be a terrible build for a guardian or ele.

Sure but each build as different traits. So the idea that they could simple look at the what trait we want to be decent and put that trait for each profession at kessex, so it unlocks early. A trait like the falling trait for each class they gate, because they don’t consider that something useful for low level characters trying to survive.

but they didnt do it that way, they just place the traits by their numerical position, except for falling damage which is always obsidian sanctum.

so trait iii on the power(1st) line, will always be gendarren field, regardless how useful or not useful it is, or what it does

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

MikaHR.1978:

before: grind mobs, grind mobs and then grind some more mobs for every single skill of every single weapon or NO weapons skills for YOU!

That’s not how it worked for at least half a year now. There was a change sometimes ago, that made it so each new skill required less grind the higher your level – at ~15-20 you needed one-two hits to unlock any, even the last one.

Vayne.8563:

I have a working theory. But it’s just that, a theory. I’d have to do a lot more testing to see if this is what happened. Anet didn’t believe people could make their own builds so they made certain traits they saw as advantageous to leveling very easy to get (like the chest in Kessex which anyone can do), and put the ones that were much less beneficial (on average anyway) behind harder targets…trying to guide people to the easier stuff that might help them right away.

That might have been sensible, except for one small point. The unlocks are the same for every class, while the trait spreads for reasonable builds for every class are different. What works for a warrior would be a terrible build for a guardian or ele.

Sure but each build as different traits. So the idea that they could simple look at the what trait we want to be decent and put that trait for each profession at kessex, so it unlocks early. A trait like the falling trait for each class they gate, because they don’t consider that something useful for low level characters trying to survive.

but they didnt do it that way, they just place the traits by their numerical position, except for falling damage which is always obsidian sanctum.

so trait iii on the power(1st) line, will always be gendarren field, regardless how useful or not useful it is, or what it does

I’m going to look at it. They did move some traits around for that patch. I’ll just see how generally useful that trait is across all professions and work from there. It’s something to test, that’s all. I have no idea if it’s right or not.

Astralporing.1957:

MikaHR.1978:

before: grind mobs, grind mobs and then grind some more mobs for every single skill of every single weapon or NO weapons skills for YOU!

That’s not how it worked for at least half a year now. There was a change sometimes ago, that made it so each new skill required less grind the higher your level – at ~15-20 you needed one-two hits to unlock any, even the last one.

Ever tried unlocking all skills for all weapons on a level 2-5 Elementalist ? You could
nearly level to 10 only with that grind i think .. and especially it was just awfull to
grind masses of mobs in water attunement.

MikaHR.1978:

The discussion is what happens for 1st few levels (up to 10) which would be 6ish in old xp curve.

Now at level 10 you have ALL weapon skills unlocked whether you depopulated lvl1 boars or not. What happened in lvl15+ in old leveling curve is irrelevant.

Well, last time i have levelled a char, i had all skills unlocked at about level 5. I didn’t need to grind for that at all, it was way, way easier than it was originally – even at level 1 unlocking was visibly faster than at launch.
…granted, it was an engi, but still.

Beldin.5498:

Ever tried unlocking all skills for all weapons on a level 2-5 Elementalist ? You could nearly level to 10 only with that grind i think .. and especially it was just awfull to grind masses of mobs in water attunement.

Yeah, i did, and it was bad… but that was before they made the changes that speeded that process up (i believe it happened around the same time as the china launch – maybe in the previous feature pack)

Astralporing.1957:

MikaHR.1978:

The discussion is what happens for 1st few levels (up to 10) which would be 6ish in old xp curve.

Now at level 10 you have ALL weapon skills unlocked whether you depopulated lvl1 boars or not. What happened in lvl15+ in old leveling curve is irrelevant.

Well, last time i have levelled a char, i had all skills unlocked at about level 5. I didn’t need to grind for that at all, it was way, way easier than it was originally – even at level 1 unlocking was visibly faster than at launch.
…granted, it was an engi, but still.

Beldin.5498:

Ever tried unlocking all skills for all weapons on a level 2-5 Elementalist ? You could nearly level to 10 only with that grind i think .. and especially it was just awfull to grind masses of mobs in water attunement.

Yeah, i did, and it was bad… but that was before they made the changes that speeded that process up (i believe it happened around the same time as the china launch – maybe in the previous feature pack)

I think people may be confusing grinding with gating. There’s no grind at all to unlock these weapons, because as you level they unlock automatically. The old method had grinding because you had to kill to unlock. But it was very minimal and not noticable grinding.

I’m only clarifying this so we’re all on the same page. You’re leveling no matter what and it’s unlocking no matter what. The real issue here is gating, not grinding.

And the reason I say this is clarity. If we don’t want more gating than we had before, that’s the term we should all use to get the message across more clearly.

I’d not be sad if there was less gating on alts.

Thanks for this great write-up. I’ve taken a new character to 20 so far and found that it’s not really that painful.

A few small complaints:

• Guardians could use a different starting weapon. Mace is slow and very low damage.
• It would be really nice to have a weapon and salvage vendor near the starting hearts.
• 13 is a little late for skills to unlock. Maybe they could start at 10? (above comparison of previous level 6:current level 10 is very helpful, thank you! Waiting for the next set of fixes before I comment more on this)
• It would be great to be able to interact with skill challenges before level 13. You only have to backtrack on your first map, but it’s still annoying.
• Earning skill points in bundles instead of one every level is not my favorite choice.

Can someone else comment, is our first automatic skill at 13 a condition cleanse?

felessan.9587:

Thanks for this great write-up. I’ve taken a new character to 20 so far and found that it’s not really that painful.

A few small complaints:

• Guardians could use a different starting weapon. Mace is slow and very low damage.
• It would be really nice to have a weapon and salvage vendor near the starting hearts.
  *13 is a little late for skills to unlock. Maybe they could start at 10? (above comparison of previous level 6:current level 10 is very helpful, thank you! Waiting for the next set of fixes before I comment more on this)
• It would be great to be able to interact with skill challenges before level 13. You only have to backtrack on your first map, but it’s still annoying.
• Earning skill points in bundles instead of one every level is not my favorite choice.

Can someone else comment, is our first automatic skill at 13 a condition cleanse?

All starting cities have vendors that sell white low level weapons very cheaply. You can go into the city and buy whatever weapon you want. A bit of an inconvenience, but probably better than running around with a mace. lol

felessan.9587:

Can someone else comment, is our first automatic skill at 13 a condition cleanse?

It appears that way, yes.

Most “level” headed review on the subject I’ve seen yet. Thanks for this report.

21-30

Completing this personal story chunk got me to level 21… and also earned me the skin for a T1 chestpiece. I’m sure there are some collectors who won’t like that little development.

Shortly having finished said personal story, the rules changed on me. Now I have all three utility skills. Okay… I guess that’s how it goes when you are doing something in the middle of a revision process.

It is during this period where I really start to see the improvements in the leveling system. With the utility traits unlocking more or less as normal, the tweak to gear dropping (as well as the occasional toy from leveling), has really helped prevent me from being underpowered for level relevant content without having to resort to crafting (which is an element I’ve never particularly liked in any MMO).

These levels also seem to be going by faster than I remember… though granted, I could just be fooling myself.

Really, there’s not much else to say on this particular clump, as by the time I got here, there was nothing particularly new to unlock, and as such there’s not much I can say about how it felt before.

But now I take a deep breath, for I have now unlocked the new trait mechanic. I already know I’m going to hate it. The question is how much? We shall see!

chemiclord.3978:

But now I take a deep breath, for I have now unlocked the new trait mechanic. I already know I’m going to hate it. The question is how much? We shall see!

Or those of us that have been trying it for ourselves can tell you. But really, where’s the fun in that? ::evil laugh::

chemiclord.3978:

21-30

Completing this personal story chunk got me to level 21… and also earned me the skin for a T1 chestpiece. I’m sure there are some collectors who won’t like that little development.

Shortly having finished said personal story, the rules changed on me. Now I have all three utility skills. Okay… I guess that’s how it goes when you are doing something in the middle of a revision process.

It is during this period where I really start to see the improvements in the leveling system. With the utility traits unlocking more or less as normal, the tweak to gear dropping (as well as the occasional toy from leveling), has really helped prevent me from being underpowered for level relevant content without having to resort to crafting (which is an element I’ve never particularly liked in any MMO).

These levels also seem to be going by faster than I remember… though granted, I could just be fooling myself.

Really, there’s not much else to say on this particular clump, as by the time I got here, there was nothing particularly new to unlock, and as such there’s not much I can say about how it felt before.

But now I take a deep breath, for I have now unlocked the new trait mechanic. I already know I’m going to hate it. The question is how much? We shall see!

ahh, for me personally 22-30 was super boring and i just had to grind it out. I EOTMed, i did some hearts, hunted down dynamic events.
Its odd because i like personal story, up to this point (tends to go downhill for me when i join an order) but i really hate the no drops in personal story thing now, so i come away feeling like i am wasting my time slightly.

phys.7689:

chemiclord.3978:

21-30

Completing this personal story chunk got me to level 21… and also earned me the skin for a T1 chestpiece. I’m sure there are some collectors who won’t like that little development.

Shortly having finished said personal story, the rules changed on me. Now I have all three utility skills. Okay… I guess that’s how it goes when you are doing something in the middle of a revision process.

It is during this period where I really start to see the improvements in the leveling system. With the utility traits unlocking more or less as normal, the tweak to gear dropping (as well as the occasional toy from leveling), has really helped prevent me from being underpowered for level relevant content without having to resort to crafting (which is an element I’ve never particularly liked in any MMO).

These levels also seem to be going by faster than I remember… though granted, I could just be fooling myself.

Really, there’s not much else to say on this particular clump, as by the time I got here, there was nothing particularly new to unlock, and as such there’s not much I can say about how it felt before.

But now I take a deep breath, for I have now unlocked the new trait mechanic. I already know I’m going to hate it. The question is how much? We shall see!

ahh, for me personally 22-30 was super boring and i just had to grind it out. I EOTMed, i did some hearts, hunted down dynamic events.
Its odd because i like personal story, up to this point (tends to go downhill for me when i join an order) but i really hate the no drops in personal story thing now, so i come away feeling like i am wasting my time slightly.

Did you do it after or before teh experience point 20-30 fix?

As for the personal story the rewards you get at the end are better, to me anyway, than the stuff you used to get during.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

chemiclord.3978:

21-30

Completing this personal story chunk got me to level 21… and also earned me the skin for a T1 chestpiece. I’m sure there are some collectors who won’t like that little development.

Shortly having finished said personal story, the rules changed on me. Now I have all three utility skills. Okay… I guess that’s how it goes when you are doing something in the middle of a revision process.

It is during this period where I really start to see the improvements in the leveling system. With the utility traits unlocking more or less as normal, the tweak to gear dropping (as well as the occasional toy from leveling), has really helped prevent me from being underpowered for level relevant content without having to resort to crafting (which is an element I’ve never particularly liked in any MMO).

These levels also seem to be going by faster than I remember… though granted, I could just be fooling myself.

Really, there’s not much else to say on this particular clump, as by the time I got here, there was nothing particularly new to unlock, and as such there’s not much I can say about how it felt before.

But now I take a deep breath, for I have now unlocked the new trait mechanic. I already know I’m going to hate it. The question is how much? We shall see!

ahh, for me personally 22-30 was super boring and i just had to grind it out. I EOTMed, i did some hearts, hunted down dynamic events.
Its odd because i like personal story, up to this point (tends to go downhill for me when i join an order) but i really hate the no drops in personal story thing now, so i come away feeling like i am wasting my time slightly.

Did you do it after or before teh experience point 20-30 fix?

As for the personal story the rewards you get at the end are better, to me anyway, than the stuff you used to get during.

after.

i think perhaps it has to do with me generally really never liking map completion, and now thats pretty much the focus for 10 levels at a time.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

chemiclord.3978:

21-30

Completing this personal story chunk got me to level 21… and also earned me the skin for a T1 chestpiece. I’m sure there are some collectors who won’t like that little development.

Shortly having finished said personal story, the rules changed on me. Now I have all three utility skills. Okay… I guess that’s how it goes when you are doing something in the middle of a revision process.

It is during this period where I really start to see the improvements in the leveling system. With the utility traits unlocking more or less as normal, the tweak to gear dropping (as well as the occasional toy from leveling), has really helped prevent me from being underpowered for level relevant content without having to resort to crafting (which is an element I’ve never particularly liked in any MMO).

These levels also seem to be going by faster than I remember… though granted, I could just be fooling myself.

Really, there’s not much else to say on this particular clump, as by the time I got here, there was nothing particularly new to unlock, and as such there’s not much I can say about how it felt before.

But now I take a deep breath, for I have now unlocked the new trait mechanic. I already know I’m going to hate it. The question is how much? We shall see!

ahh, for me personally 22-30 was super boring and i just had to grind it out. I EOTMed, i did some hearts, hunted down dynamic events.
Its odd because i like personal story, up to this point (tends to go downhill for me when i join an order) but i really hate the no drops in personal story thing now, so i come away feeling like i am wasting my time slightly.

Did you do it after or before teh experience point 20-30 fix?

As for the personal story the rewards you get at the end are better, to me anyway, than the stuff you used to get during.

after.

i think perhaps it has to do with me generally really never liking map completion, and now thats pretty much the focus for 10 levels at a time.

See, I don’t map complete. Sometimes I even turn off all the map markers. I just run around and act as if my character is actually in the zone. See what they see, hear what they hear. I’m always always finding something I either haven’t seen or don’t remember seeing.

Vayne.8563:

See, I don’t map complete. Sometimes I even turn off all the map markers. I just run around and act as if my character is actually in the zone. See what they see, hear what they hear. I’m always always finding something I either haven’t seen or don’t remember seeing.

Trust me, the older you get the more likely the latter is the case.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

See, I don’t map complete. Sometimes I even turn off all the map markers. I just run around and act as if my character is actually in the zone. See what they see, hear what they hear. I’m always always finding something I either haven’t seen or don’t remember seeing.

Trust me, the older you get the more likely the latter is the case.

That’s the truth. Just the other day I was saying to my wife…“who are you again?”

But yeah, it’s a fair point. Not remembering stuff makes reexploring zones more entertaining.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

chemiclord.3978:

21-30

Completing this personal story chunk got me to level 21… and also earned me the skin for a T1 chestpiece. I’m sure there are some collectors who won’t like that little development.

Shortly having finished said personal story, the rules changed on me. Now I have all three utility skills. Okay… I guess that’s how it goes when you are doing something in the middle of a revision process.

It is during this period where I really start to see the improvements in the leveling system. With the utility traits unlocking more or less as normal, the tweak to gear dropping (as well as the occasional toy from leveling), has really helped prevent me from being underpowered for level relevant content without having to resort to crafting (which is an element I’ve never particularly liked in any MMO).

These levels also seem to be going by faster than I remember… though granted, I could just be fooling myself.

Really, there’s not much else to say on this particular clump, as by the time I got here, there was nothing particularly new to unlock, and as such there’s not much I can say about how it felt before.

But now I take a deep breath, for I have now unlocked the new trait mechanic. I already know I’m going to hate it. The question is how much? We shall see!

ahh, for me personally 22-30 was super boring and i just had to grind it out. I EOTMed, i did some hearts, hunted down dynamic events.
Its odd because i like personal story, up to this point (tends to go downhill for me when i join an order) but i really hate the no drops in personal story thing now, so i come away feeling like i am wasting my time slightly.

Did you do it after or before teh experience point 20-30 fix?

As for the personal story the rewards you get at the end are better, to me anyway, than the stuff you used to get during.

after.

i think perhaps it has to do with me generally really never liking map completion, and now thats pretty much the focus for 10 levels at a time.

See, I don’t map complete. Sometimes I even turn off all the map markers. I just run around and act as if my character is actually in the zone. See what they see, hear what they hear. I’m always always finding something I either haven’t seen or don’t remember seeing.

i kind of do that, i just dont end up leveling very fast, or I do most of the stuff i actually want to do in the zone before i am high level enough to leave it. Then im usually left with a bunch of stuff im trying to avoid left, or i have to go to a different zone in the same leveling range.

Sometimes i catch a lot of dynamic events and it works out, some times the dynamic events seem rather barren.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

chemiclord.3978:

21-30

Completing this personal story chunk got me to level 21… and also earned me the skin for a T1 chestpiece. I’m sure there are some collectors who won’t like that little development.

Shortly having finished said personal story, the rules changed on me. Now I have all three utility skills. Okay… I guess that’s how it goes when you are doing something in the middle of a revision process.

It is during this period where I really start to see the improvements in the leveling system. With the utility traits unlocking more or less as normal, the tweak to gear dropping (as well as the occasional toy from leveling), has really helped prevent me from being underpowered for level relevant content without having to resort to crafting (which is an element I’ve never particularly liked in any MMO).

These levels also seem to be going by faster than I remember… though granted, I could just be fooling myself.

Really, there’s not much else to say on this particular clump, as by the time I got here, there was nothing particularly new to unlock, and as such there’s not much I can say about how it felt before.

But now I take a deep breath, for I have now unlocked the new trait mechanic. I already know I’m going to hate it. The question is how much? We shall see!

ahh, for me personally 22-30 was super boring and i just had to grind it out. I EOTMed, i did some hearts, hunted down dynamic events.
Its odd because i like personal story, up to this point (tends to go downhill for me when i join an order) but i really hate the no drops in personal story thing now, so i come away feeling like i am wasting my time slightly.

Did you do it after or before teh experience point 20-30 fix?

As for the personal story the rewards you get at the end are better, to me anyway, than the stuff you used to get during.

after.

i think perhaps it has to do with me generally really never liking map completion, and now thats pretty much the focus for 10 levels at a time.

See, I don’t map complete. Sometimes I even turn off all the map markers. I just run around and act as if my character is actually in the zone. See what they see, hear what they hear. I’m always always finding something I either haven’t seen or don’t remember seeing.

i kind of do that, i just dont end up leveling very fast, or I do most of the stuff i actually want to do in the zone before i am high level enough to leave it. Then im usually left with a bunch of stuff im trying to avoid left, or i have to go to a different zone in the same leveling range.

Sometimes i catch a lot of dynamic events and it works out, some times the dynamic events seem rather barren.

If I really think about it, I’m led around by gathering nodes, since I gather absolutely everything. Particularly once you get into the 20-30 area, softwood, iron are required items that I never get enough of.

I just follow my nodes (pun intended).

And you know whatever’s on the way, in the way. I pass through a heart, get a couple of hits on something move on. I’ll be back to finish the heart another time. It’s not that important.

But you’re right, I don’t level fast unless I’m focused on leveling fast. The point is, if you don’t really enjoy leveling, nothing is going to make it a whole lot better. If you enjoy leveling, leveling slower isn’t really that much of an issue.

It’s likely that EotM is always going to be better for you, no matter what you do. Or SPvP for level up tomes.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

chemiclord.3978:

21-30

Completing this personal story chunk got me to level 21… and also earned me the skin for a T1 chestpiece. I’m sure there are some collectors who won’t like that little development.

Shortly having finished said personal story, the rules changed on me. Now I have all three utility skills. Okay… I guess that’s how it goes when you are doing something in the middle of a revision process.

It is during this period where I really start to see the improvements in the leveling system. With the utility traits unlocking more or less as normal, the tweak to gear dropping (as well as the occasional toy from leveling), has really helped prevent me from being underpowered for level relevant content without having to resort to crafting (which is an element I’ve never particularly liked in any MMO).

These levels also seem to be going by faster than I remember… though granted, I could just be fooling myself.

Really, there’s not much else to say on this particular clump, as by the time I got here, there was nothing particularly new to unlock, and as such there’s not much I can say about how it felt before.

But now I take a deep breath, for I have now unlocked the new trait mechanic. I already know I’m going to hate it. The question is how much? We shall see!

ahh, for me personally 22-30 was super boring and i just had to grind it out. I EOTMed, i did some hearts, hunted down dynamic events.
Its odd because i like personal story, up to this point (tends to go downhill for me when i join an order) but i really hate the no drops in personal story thing now, so i come away feeling like i am wasting my time slightly.

Did you do it after or before teh experience point 20-30 fix?

As for the personal story the rewards you get at the end are better, to me anyway, than the stuff you used to get during.

after.

i think perhaps it has to do with me generally really never liking map completion, and now thats pretty much the focus for 10 levels at a time.

See, I don’t map complete. Sometimes I even turn off all the map markers. I just run around and act as if my character is actually in the zone. See what they see, hear what they hear. I’m always always finding something I either haven’t seen or don’t remember seeing.

i kind of do that, i just dont end up leveling very fast, or I do most of the stuff i actually want to do in the zone before i am high level enough to leave it. Then im usually left with a bunch of stuff im trying to avoid left, or i have to go to a different zone in the same leveling range.

Sometimes i catch a lot of dynamic events and it works out, some times the dynamic events seem rather barren.

If I really think about it, I’m led around by gathering nodes, since I gather absolutely everything. Particularly once you get into the 20-30 area, softwood, iron are required items that I never get enough of.

I just follow my nodes (pun intended).

And you know whatever’s on the way, in the way. I pass through a heart, get a couple of hits on something move on. I’ll be back to finish the heart another time. It’s not that important.

But you’re right, I don’t level fast unless I’m focused on leveling fast. The point is, if you don’t really enjoy leveling, nothing is going to make it a whole lot better. If you enjoy leveling, leveling slower isn’t really that much of an issue.

It’s likely that EotM is always going to be better for you, no matter what you do. Or SPvP for level up tomes.

eotm is good for small bursts, but to be honest a low level is a complete leech, you melt instantaneously when battles happen, and barely get enough dmg to claim mobs.

Spvp is good for spvping, but for getting levels? its pretty bad, its more like if you want to spvp, you get some cool side stuff.

I still enjoy pve, somewhat. I mostly enjoy dynamic events, cool chains, and mini dungeons when people are doing them. I generally hate hearts(well any heart i cant get while doing something more entertaining, and ignore vistas/pois unless they are around and easy. I also dont gather consistently, its fairly random if i feel like it.

@chemiclord:

No discussion points on the loot drop changes?

I’ve started up an engi and at lvl 16 i’ve picked up only 4 bits of gear relevant to my class. The rest came through the parts of the leveling process (like underwater breathing gear and a harpoon) and one or two personal story missions, but drops-wise, it feels like nothing has changed on that front.

I even did Maw a few times and still kept getting stuff like swords and even a bow!

It’s only something I’ve observed in aggregate, honestly. That, combined with the new level and PS awards, have allowed to me to pretty much stay on the gear curve without having to resort to crafting.

As I’m leveling, it honestly isn’t something I notice.

nethykins.7986:

@chemiclord:

No discussion points on the loot drop changes?

I’ve started up an engi and at lvl 16 i’ve picked up only 4 bits of gear relevant to my class. The rest came through the parts of the leveling process (like underwater breathing gear and a harpoon) and one or two personal story missions, but drops-wise, it feels like nothing has changed on that front.

I even did Maw a few times and still kept getting stuff like swords and even a bow!

Chests aren’t affected I think, only drops from creatures.

Vayne.8563:

nethykins.7986:

@chemiclord:

No discussion points on the loot drop changes?

I’ve started up an engi and at lvl 16 i’ve picked up only 4 bits of gear relevant to my class. The rest came through the parts of the leveling process (like underwater breathing gear and a harpoon) and one or two personal story missions, but drops-wise, it feels like nothing has changed on that front.

I even did Maw a few times and still kept getting stuff like swords and even a bow!

Chests aren’t affected I think, only drops from creatures.

Bummer…well then it’s doubly bad…looks like loot isn’t working in my favour at all. Again been playing on my engi and got more swords, and boots I couldn’t use, (these were drops)

Anyone else getting the same thing for Engi’s or for any other classes?

nethykins.7986:

Vayne.8563:

nethykins.7986:

@chemiclord:

No discussion points on the loot drop changes?

I’ve started up an engi and at lvl 16 i’ve picked up only 4 bits of gear relevant to my class. The rest came through the parts of the leveling process (like underwater breathing gear and a harpoon) and one or two personal story missions, but drops-wise, it feels like nothing has changed on that front.

I even did Maw a few times and still kept getting stuff like swords and even a bow!

Chests aren’t affected I think, only drops from creatures.

Bummer…well then it’s doubly bad…looks like loot isn’t working in my favour at all. Again been playing on my engi and got more swords, and boots I couldn’t use, (these were drops)

Anyone else getting the same thing for Engi’s or for any other classes?

It was supposed to be a small change, not a huge one….but RNG is still RNG. I’ve only leveled a ranger so far, and an ele since the patch and in both cases I got more drops than I used to. but obviously not all drops.

On the other hand, level up rewards, which didn’t use to exist now including gear as well.

31-40

Ya know, I kinda like how the Personal Story is clumped together. I find I don’t have to think, “Who is [x] character again?” because it was several levels between visits.

I do like how the rewards have improved as well (many of the items allow you to choose what stats you want rather than pre-determined (and usually pretty poor). And of top of that, finishing this PS segment earned me an Order related weapon skin. Not too shabby.

I also conveniently earned another clump of skill points just in time to grab my elite skill just as they unlocked (Rampage as One, obviously). I guess it kinda worked out… but I’m skill not completely sold on this entire “get everything in clumps” strategy. I mean, I kinda get the logic behind it (I can see how players could kinda “forget” getting 1 trait point and 1 skill point when each step requires multiple points), but it’s still kinda meh.

Meanwhile, as far as trait hunting goes, I immediately found one absurd one that was fairly fundamental for the Ranger build (Vigorous Spirits), which required exploring all of Harathi Hinterlands to unlock.

Eff.

That.

I mean, I kinda get how it could work, as additional incentive for new players to do things they wouldn’t normally think of doing. But for someone who has already explored Harathi three times?

Eff.

That.

So I cheated, and had my other ranger (the level 80 with a bajillion skill points) buy the guides and drop them in my bank. Sorry. I guess it’s nice that you can do it that way… but it’s still pretty stupid that something that was perfectly fine to begin with is now something so poorly implemented.

Other traits weren’t particularly time consuming, and often were a surprise to stumble on, like earning one through kill Kol in Harathi. If more were like that (having to go off the more beaten path) rather than something merely time consuming (like zone exploration), it’d be more bearable.

I’ll admit to bias, I’m not a fan of “hunting” things for trivial reasons. I despised the elite skill capping of GW1. I came into this having already decided I was going to hate the trait capping of GW2. So take that in mind when I say I pretty much entirely loathe what Arena.net did to the trait system.

Revert it back to the way it was, please. I want all my traits without having to do stupid stuff to get them. Thank you.

So, I’m now at level 40, where the NPE was supposed to really come to an “end” initially, and my personal judgment of the matter is “eh.” It’s not nearly as terrible as the vocal forum presence wants to claim… but it’s not a particularly impressive improvement on what existed before.

Some things are better. Some things are more annoying. I guess if you had never played the game before, you wouldn’t be bothered, and would probably like it. For a veteran, I really think the best Arena.net can hope for is that you find it more different than worse.

For me, that’s how I’ve decided to view it.

Except for trait capping.

That can die in a fire.

chemiclord.3978:

31-40

Ya know, I kinda like how the Personal Story is clumped together.

Wait for the last two chapters. Clumping of the story itself is okay, it’s the changes to the last parts that are highly questionable.

Astralporing.1957:

chemiclord.3978:

31-40

Ya know, I kinda like how the Personal Story is clumped together.

Wait for the last two chapters. Clumping of the story itself is okay, it’s the changes to the last parts that are highly questionable.

Which Anet acknowledged and is working to fix.

chemiclord.3978:

31-40

Ya know, I kinda like how the Personal Story is clumped together. I find I don’t have to think, “Who is [x] character again?” because it was several levels between visits.

I do like how the rewards have improved as well (many of the items allow you to choose what stats you want rather than pre-determined (and usually pretty poor). And of top of that, finishing this PS segment earned me an Order related weapon skin. Not too shabby.

I also conveniently earned another clump of skill points just in time to grab my elite skill just as they unlocked (Rampage as One, obviously). I guess it kinda worked out… but I’m skill not completely sold on this entire “get everything in clumps” strategy. I mean, I kinda get the logic behind it (I can see how players could kinda “forget” getting 1 trait point and 1 skill point when each step requires multiple points), but it’s still kinda meh.

Meanwhile, as far as trait hunting goes, I immediately found one absurd one that was fairly fundamental for the Ranger build (Vigorous Spirits), which required exploring all of Harathi Hinterlands to unlock.

Eff.

That.

I mean, I kinda get how it could work, as additional incentive for new players to do things they wouldn’t normally think of doing. But for someone who has already explored Harathi three times?

Eff.

That.

So I cheated, and had my other ranger (the level 80 with a bajillion skill points) buy the guides and drop them in my bank. Sorry. I guess it’s nice that you can do it that way… but it’s still pretty stupid that something that was perfectly fine to begin with is now something so poorly implemented.

Other traits weren’t particularly time consuming, and often were a surprise to stumble on, like earning one through kill Kol in Harathi. If more were like that (having to go off the more beaten path) rather than something merely time consuming (like zone exploration), it’d be more bearable.

I’ll admit to bias, I’m not a fan of “hunting” things for trivial reasons. I despised the elite skill capping of GW1. I came into this having already decided I was going to hate the trait capping of GW2. So take that in mind when I say I pretty much entirely loathe what Arena.net did to the trait system.

Revert it back to the way it was, please. I want all my traits without having to do stupid stuff to get them. Thank you.

So, I’m now at level 40, where the NPE was supposed to really come to an “end” initially, and my personal judgment of the matter is “eh.” It’s not nearly as terrible as the vocal forum presence wants to claim… but it’s not a particularly impressive improvement on what existed before.

Some things are better. Some things are more annoying. I guess if you had never played the game before, you wouldn’t be bothered, and would probably like it. For a veteran, I really think the best Arena.net can hope for is that you find it more different than worse.

For me, that’s how I’ve decided to view it.

Except for trait capping.

That can die in a fire.

the npe, is the entire package, they broke it up here, but in china it was released together.
New player is going from 1-80 the first time.
the trait system totally changes the balance of skillpoint, aka traits versus utilities. It dramatically increases the time to getting a max skill/trait/level charachter. Now, you use the same resource to obtain your traits, and your utilities, or you do tasks that most people take quite some time doing.