Guild Wars 2

Player A: LF3M FOTM LEVEL 12
Player B: LFG for Fractals of the Mist (level 1).
Player C: glf2m fractals stage 6
Player D: LF2M FRACTURE 8 THEN G2G
Player E: FRAC 5!
Player E: FRAC 5!
Player E: FRAC 5!
Player A: LF3M FOTM LEVEL 12
Player F: LF3M Fractals L9
Player G: LF1M FotM L17, guardian or no reply
Player H: LFM frac level 2 80 only
Player A: LF3M FOTM LEVEL 12
Player I: LFG Fractals 3!
Player J: Necro LFG for FotM L17.
Player E: FRAC 5!
Player B: LFG for Fractals of the Mist (level 1).
Player I: LFG Fractals 3!!
Player K: L78 Guardian LFG for Fractals stage 2.
Player L: LFG for anything except FotM. Group up in Timberline Falls, anyone?
Player M: Player L, you’re such a dehrp! Gear in FotM is much better.
Player H: LFM frac level 2 80 only
Player D: LF3M FRACTURE 8 THEN G2G
Player C: glf2m fractals stage 6
Player F: LF2M Fractals L9
Player K: L78 Guardian LFG for Fractals stage 2.
Player H: LFM frac level 2 80 only
Player E: FRAC 5!
Player E: FRAC 5!
Player I: LFG Fractals 3!!!
Player D: LF2M FRACTURE 8 THEN G2G
…
Player Y: Do you remember when people played games to have fun, not just to see some number increase?
Player Z: Shut up, noob! I bet you don’t even have any ascended gear.

“So much of traditional MMO combat is rote and repetitive. You execute the same strategy over and over again, just augmented over time with better and better gear. After a while it starts to feel like you’re playing a spreadsheet.”

“We have no intention of creating a lobby game.”

“Putting the RPG back in MMORPG.”

Yeah. Congratulations.

You’d expect anything more or anything less from current generation of players?
I know i don’t.

No Fractal 7 groups yet… dang, hopefully I’ll find one this evening.

I think you made up the player Y and Z part.

ostracize.8316:

Someone said “shut up noob” in correct grammar and with punctuation?

I considered using “chat grammer”, but I realised that, if I did that, someone would post here telling me that I couldn’t write properly, so I decided to save us all that extra bandwidth.

Last week a day in LA was largely:

LF1M CoF path 1 & 2
LFG TA any path
LFg CoF
lvl 80 full exo LFG AC
LF2M Arah no noobs
LFG TA
LF2M CoF speed run 80 only
LFG arah

Not really much difference. It’s just what happens when you lack a decent dungeon finder.

You don’t need to make up a fake conversation and chat log to make your point.

Kana.6793:

Not really much difference.

Actually, quite a bit of difference (i.e., people doing all the dungeons available in the game, instead of the same one over and over and over again – at least when WoW releases a new patch, people brainlessly repeat three new dungeons, not just one).

Plus there was nowhere near the same volume of spam in the chat channel (there were often several discussions going on), and people who were looking for dungeon X could find someone reasonably quickly.

Now they have to worry about being at the right “fractal level” – because they couldn’t possibly join a group below their “level”, which would be embarrassing and cut down on their “phat lewtz”. And they can’t join a group above their level, either, because Arena Net decided that someone who hasn’t done “level 5” couldn’t possibly be allowed to join a “level 6” group. Better just keep them all spamming city chat for 40 minutes until the number matches.

The number is our Lord. The number must match. Must be the right number to get gear with higher number so we can advance to the next number.

OP, you have managed to encapsulate the LA of today perfectly.

i tried to start a conversation in LA just to cut through the LFG spam,
i managed to get one them to break character momentarily for some interaction,
which caused another to break character to insult me,
which in turn caused two to become white knights who galloped all over the troll,
then we danced…

so even though they all seem like mindless automatons typing

LFG Fractal lvl"x" 80 only,

there are most certainly a few real people hiding amongst them.

This also happens in other games, it is not a problem of the latest patch.

The problem is mostly the players.

Sad thing is, this is pretty much exactly how it is now in LA all day long. Although I did see a few people wanting groups for other dungeons and I was able to get a group for AC Exp. – the majority are spamming for FoTM groups and/or arguing & kitten comparing.

The way fractal access by lowest difficulty level makes it a pretty antisocial feature.

It pushes people towards only being prepared to progress it at their current level and nothing else.

I think it’s a problem that will need to be addressed because it’s going to get absurd quite soon.

samathana.1254:

This also happens in other games, it is not a problem of the latest patch.

The problem is mostly the players.

No, the problem is (some) designers backtracking on all their “principles” and trying to change GW2 to be more like those “other games”. And failing to realize that the majority of GW2 players chose GW2 precisely because it wasn’t.

Valtameri.2075:

You’d expect anything more or anything less from current generation of players?
I know i don’t.

I’d expect something different from a game company that set out (and has partially succeeded) to eliminate game features that prevent people from teaming up.

judgung by that snipit of dialogue, they gave the people what they want.

they gave us countless things to do to make a game where you don’t really have to grind gear in dungeons…but all anyone wants to do is grind gear in dungeons. So they gave us that too.

Can’t blame anet for that.

Yes, the product shapes the culture. If you make quests and resource nodes competitive, for instance, your own faction becomes your worst enemy, it’s just the way MMO’s (especially) work. GW had some good ideas and some are still in-game. Sadly, with the introduction of a gear-grind and gated content we are seeing the worst of those “other” MMO’s show up on our doorstep. The decline is inevitable.

Edited by moderator: quoted removed as it does not exist in the thread any more

this is what you call “failure by design” it is not supposed to succeed, there are many clues in the new content to point to the reason why.

Y and Z might be fake but the rest of that is exactly what I see in map chat now too.

Dungeon finder is SO NOT the problem with this.

If you think Dungeon Finder is the issue in this guys post you are not able to see the entire picture.

LOL they so didn’t give us what they want they took it away.

Drops are almost nil thanks to DR/MF/no promised drop quality increase in Vets and Champs, glaring problems for every class that have yet to be fixed, we already had a gear grind they didn’t need to make it vertical, vertical so does NOT equal better, no crafted versions of this tier so balance the game back to the horizontal progression we were told we’d have in the manifesto, not enough people to do the Orr events anymore because everyone is doing this single dungeon now.

See the problems, it’s definitely not an exaggeration nor is it as simple as adding a new tier of armor. It affects everything.

Rehashed Jibe Tube.7102:

judgung by that snipit of dialogue, they gave the people what they want.

If you assume the entire server population is those 15 players, and don’t count the ones who log in, stare at that depressing spectacle for 5 minutes, and then just close the game and go do something more productive with their lives.

You probably also think that WoW’s player base was exclusively composed of people who treated others like disposable “assistants” even before the Dungeon Finder was introduced.

It wasn’t. But, nowadays, it pretty much is. As I wrote above, make a product jerk-friendly and soon your entire user base will be jerks. Game design shapes its community, because it determines who stays and who leaves.

The EDIT and addicted number-grinders will put up with the spam – or indeed with anything else you put between them and the next number. And I can even understand tailoring WoW to them (after all, they’re paying a monthly subscription). But that is not the demographic that buys stuff from the cash shop, and it’s not the demographic that recruits new players into the game.

Edit by Moderator: Removed questionable term

Edit by poster: How is a term used in psychology, with a pretty well-defined meaning, “questionable”…? Definition: “A neural pattern characterized by impaired social interaction and communication, and by restricted and repetitive behavior”.

Rehashed Jibe Tube.7102:

…but all anyone wants to do is grind gear in dungeons.

i dont.

not interested, all the dungeon gear is fugly.

Rehashed Jibe Tube.7102:

judgung by that snipit of dialogue, they gave the people what they want.

They gave some people what they want. Even if “some” is a substantial amount (which it probably is), it’s starting to become obvious that one game can not cater to both of those vastly different types of players: one that will do almost anything to get the carrot on the end of the stick (WoW-style) and derives a sense of accomplishment from having higher stat gear, and then repeat that process, – and another type of player that doesn’t care so much about the carrot but just wants to have fun playing together with other people, and for whom the gear is a means to an end and the fun is the accomplishment.

Account.9832:

Rehashed Jibe Tube.7102:

judgung by that snipit of dialogue, they gave the people what they want.

If you assume the entire server population is those 15 players, and don’t count the ones who log in, stare at that depressing spectacle for 5 minutes, and then just close the game and go do something more productive with their lives.

You probably also think that WoW’s player base was exclusively composed of people who treated others like disposable “assistants” even before the Dungeon Finder was introduced.

I made absolutely zero claims about or referances to wow or wow players in my post. I also prefixed it with “judging by that snipit of dialogue”.

Rehashed Jibe Tube.7102:

I made absolutely zero claims about or referances to wow or wow players in my post.

Thanks for quoting an entire message to point out that obvious fact.

I included two paragraphs about WoW to give another example of how a change in game design can affect a game’s community, and how you can’t judge a game’s original community (ie, what made it successful in the first place) simply based on the few that jump on the new “feature” (which will ultimately kill that community).

Does that make the “referance” clearer?

ok. i cleaned up my quote to only the relevent parts….does that make my referance clearer?

tigirius.9014:

Y and Z might be fake but the rest of that is exactly what I see in map chat now too.

Actually, no, Y and Z are not fake. Y was me, and Z is a very polite rephrasing of the reply I got (which included the words “QQ”, “kitten”, “kitten”, and “go earn your gear like everybody else”).

Account.9832:

at least when WoW releases a new patch, people brainlessly repeat three new dungeons, not just one

Or 2 rehashed dungeons for 8 months. Zul’Aman, Zul’Gurub anyone?

Of COURSE everyone is running the new dungeon. It’s our first new dungeon since the game launched. Do you really expect people to run the same dungeons we had at launch forever?

Plus it’s wonderfully fun, epic and a downright revolutionary concept in dungeon running. 9 mini-dungeons in one with a world boss, escalating difficulty. Good stuff

God, this. So many times this. I used to go to LA to see what people were talking about, maybe see if that dude was doing his Sunday evening “find me to get an ecto” game, now I keep map chat off permanently. Also, I’m going to want to get my TA set over winter break, here’s hoping it’s not impossible to find any groups by then.

Karizee.8076:

Or 2 rehashed dungeons for 8 months. Zul’Aman, Zul’Gurub anyone?

You do realize I was being sarcastic, right? I was in no way suggesting that WoW’s system (of making previous content obsolete through stat inflation – or simply by not fixing its bugs) was good. 3 or 2 makes no difference. The problem is the philosophy behind that kind of design (which GW2 was supposedly trying to avoid by making all dungeons and all areas of the world equally “desirable” for players – and then failing miserably because some of the designers only seem to understand the concept of vertical progression).

And FotM’s player base fragmentation (both through the “fractal level” mechanic and the difference in gear drops) is a step in the WoW direction. And one that they shouldn’t have taken, and should undo ASAP, but instead we’re going to see some half-baked attempt to save face and keep the new system with a ton of modifications that water it down while still being worse than simply reverting to a horizontal system (and making legendaries feel like a real achievement, rather than a painful grind – which is the real problem).

Similar to the FoV debacle. One month it’s “our current FoV is essential for gameplay reasons and will never be changed” (which was nonsense, since people with multiple monitors already had a different FoV), the next month it’s “we’ve changed the FoV”. But there’s still no FoV slider, which is what every 3D game actually needs so that players can adjust the FoV to the distance they sit from the screen (ex., the “new” FoV is slightly better on my PC screen – though still not wide enough – and it’s far too wide when I’m playing on my HTPC). But adding a FoV slider would be admitting that the players (and beta testers) had been right all along, so we get this weird incomplete “solution” that is different enough to avoid admitting that, but results in a product that is worse than it could and should be.

This just underlines the severe need for a proper LFG tool. At the very least it will lessen the spamming on LA.

krookie.6378:

This just underlines the severe need for a proper LFG tool.

That’s like stabbing yourself and then saying it underlines the need for tourniquets.

While the LFG tool in GW2 does need some improvements (namely, it needs to be world-wide or at least server-wide, and needs to let players list which dungeons or zones they are interested in grouping for), a WoW-style dungeon finder (which is what a lot of people tend to think of) will only destroy any sense of community and make players treat each other like disposable “assistants”, like it did in WoW.

I’m not saying that’s your idea of “a proper LFG tool”, but I know it’s some people’s (because that’s how they see multi-player games – a single player game where you occasionally need to use other people to get what you want).

And, either way, that’s not the issue here. The issue here is the gear grind / number grind / player base fragmentation. The chat spam is just a symptom. A better dungeon finder would just make it less visible in chat, it wouldn’t actually solve the gameplay problem.

OP is not exageratting here, this is exactly how it is in Lion’s Arch now. Sure, last week, there were people shouting for parties too, but not at the frequency and at the obnoxiousness of today.

Darn didnt take long to go bad.
What a shame – soon now as the gear is attained it is going to get nasty very nasty.
I wish you all luck.
There is no issue and everything is fine.

why put the dungeon in the main city? now the entire population is in 1 area…
Every other zone is dead. LA is continuous overflows. Nobody even talks any more. The game is just no fun now.

Karizee.8076:

Account.9832:

at least when WoW releases a new patch, people brainlessly repeat three new dungeons, not just one

Or 2 rehashed dungeons for 8 months. Zul’Aman, Zul’Gurub anyone?

Of COURSE everyone is running the new dungeon. It’s our first new dungeon since the game launched. Do you really expect people to run the same dungeons we had at launch forever?

Plus it’s wonderfully fun, epic and a downright revolutionary concept in dungeon running. 9 mini-dungeons in one with a world boss, escalating difficulty. Good stuff

Not sure about it being all that revolutionary. All Vindictus dungeon runs are essentially a random chain of 6-7 instanced mini levels followed by a boss with a higher elite drop chance. Vindictus being a Nexon game of course. Besides aren’t fractals the same as infinite dungeons in action rpgs like torchlight 1 except the maps are smaller and the topology isn’t generated randomly?

Plus each mini dungeon has been pretty much the same every single time for me so far so it does feel pretty repetitive already.

LA chat seems perfectly normal to me…. well as normal as it gets on my server anyway =p

Yes and it’s kinda annoying to filter that stuff and find folks for different dungeons. Anyway, LFG FRACTALS LVL 17 NO NOOBS PLEASE

Things seem to have calmed down a lot on Tarnished Coast, I see a lot more ads for “old” dungeons now. This is a good thing since I want to run TA all through winter break.

Yeah, it’s annoying. People actually use to talk in LA, now map chat is just filled with people looking for FotM groups (and occasionally other dungeons). They need to introduced a proper group finder.