Guild Wars 2

So, people are often complaining how Zerker gear is the only gear needed for fractals and such and that it creates a lack of diversity.

By adding a fourth stat to gear, while one may argue it upsets the balance of things, it could instead create a higher diversity while making the other sets more meaningful. Some could argue it makes things more complicated, but I disagree that this is a bad thing.

These stats could only be active in fractals (or maybe solo PvE as well) as not to upset the balance in PvP. Obviously mobs would have their health raised or adjusted so they aren’t burnt through so quickly due to the change.

In this example, it would add different stats to different gear but perhaps making it less desirable on berserker’s and more attractive on others. An example, with numbers that would obviously be tweaked

Berserker’s :- Power, Precision, Ferocity

+ [Insert fancy name here, let’s call it dedication] + x% weapon skill reduction.
So on Helms, shoulders, chest etc at level 80 exotic we could have 1% with rings being 0.5% and 1 hands being 2% while 2 handers 4%. Totaling up to around 10-15% (I haven’t done the maths as said, numbers can be tweaked

Obviously this wouldn’t affect auto attack and just skill 2-5.

Rampagers :- Precision, power, condition damage.

+ [Aggression] Each piece of gear can add an extra stack for bleeds so with this gear you would raise the cap to say 35-40.

Sinister :- Condition, power, precision.

+ [Hatred] Gear can add a percentage to increase the speed of stacking. So let’s assume with zero gear you’d stack a bleed every hit, with half gear you’d have a 50% chance to stack 2 bleeds per hit, and with full gear 100% chance. (Or if suited the stats could be swapped onto rampagers and visa versa)

Soldiers :- Power, toughness, vitality.

+[brutality] Every piece can add a percentage of extra power for the amount of toughness you have and precision for vitality. While nothing fancy, nor quick, it would allow for massive slow hits.

I won’t go through the whole list but obviously there’s numerous things that could be implemented from standard haste, weapon speed or even utility skills. Healing gear could perhaps add a HoT or even a new damage type DoT that reflects the healing you do to yourself as damage to the enemy.

Numbers tweaked so that other gear types are just as powerful as berserker’s and gives a reason to use something else, while not breaking zerker for those who like it.

Thoughts?

Honestly if I’m going to go with Zerker gear, if I had a 4th stat i’d want either toughness or vit honestly.

Vegeta.2563:

Honestly if I’m going to go with Zerker gear, if I had a 4th stat i’d want either toughness or vit honestly.

Yeah, I agree.

I think what would be cool is a 4th stat based on how much of your set consists of that archetype. Similar to runes.

All 6 Berserker equipment? Add 1 stack of Vulnerability (3s) every 3rd hit, but conditions have increased duration. All 6 Soldier’s equipment? Gain Protection(1s) every 15s, but decrease crit damage by 5%. All 6 Valkyrie equipment? Increase crit damage by 20%, but decrease crit rate by 5%. All 6 Dire equipment? Increase Condition damage by 5% of toughness, but decrease condition duration by 5%

Those examples are more like a bonus for having a set, but I think it’d add a whole new dynamic to the way people play. Like at that point, is it worth running full sets of something, or is it better to mix and match to experiment?

Like i think of it in WVW, and it would really make Hammer warriors think about whether or not they wanna run full Berserk armor, and rely heavy on self healing, because now they take a lot more damage. Or Full Dire Condi Thieves who have great escaping abilities, but is it worth hiding all the time if your bleed which usually lasts 5s, now only lasts 2s per stack?

I think this would be fun because then it’d add a new level of challenge in the way players play.

Izziee.8392:

By adding a fourth stat to gear, while one may argue it upsets the balance of things, it could instead create a higher diversity while making the other sets more meaningful. Some could argue it makes things more complicated, but I disagree that this is a bad thing.

No it would not. People would again go for the maximum amount of damage and a new set of Zerker gear would emerge.

The fact that Zerker (assassins) gear is picked as main endgame gear has nothing to do with its stats. It has to due with game mechanics and the ability to avoid, dodge, mitigate most/all damage thrown at the group. Adding more stats does not change this. Hence adding another layer of stats would just convolute things even more and end up in people picking max damage once again.

Cyninja.2954:

Izziee.8392:

By adding a fourth stat to gear, while one may argue it upsets the balance of things, it could instead create a higher diversity while making the other sets more meaningful. Some could argue it makes things more complicated, but I disagree that this is a bad thing.

No it would not. People would again go for the maximum amount of damage and a new set of Zerker gear would emerge.

The fact that Zerker (assassins) gear is picked as main endgame gear has nothing to do with its stats. It has to due with game mechanics and the ability to avoid, dodge, mitigate most/all damage thrown at the group. Adding more stats does not change this. Hence adding another layer of stats would just convolute things even more and end up in people picking max damage once again.

You pretty much contradicted yourself. It has everything to do with it’s stats. That’s the whole point. Zerker gear means you’re pumping out the most damage, because of it’s stats. If the gear didn’t have the stats to do the most damage, people wouldn’t pick it.

So explaining it in a more simple terms – adding a 4th stat would mean you’d be able to increase the damage of the other sets without ruining their role. As said, by increasing power per toughness and precision per vitality on soilders gear, then it would do a lot more damage, but it would be slow but hard hitting. The same goes with the other sets but I won’t repeat the examples. It would increase the damage to all of them (and as I already said, the mobs health could be adjusted to compensate). Having an extra stat means you can tweak the gear much easier to balance them out to do more equal damage while filling different roles.

Yay .. power, precision, ferocity and condition damage .. to be ready for the
upped condition cap in HoT .. lol

Vegeta.2563:

Honestly if I’m going to go with Zerker gear, if I had a 4th stat i’d want either toughness or vit honestly.

But the point was to distance zerker gear away from it being picked the majority of the time, while still keeping it viable so that those who want to use it, can, without feeling forced to use something else.

Balgus.3468:

I think what would be cool is a 4th stat based on how much of your set consists of that archetype. Similar to runes.

All 6 Berserker equipment? Add 1 stack of Vulnerability (3s) every 3rd hit, but conditions have increased duration. All 6 Soldier’s equipment? Gain Protection(1s) every 15s, but decrease crit damage by 5%. All 6 Valkyrie equipment? Increase crit damage by 20%, but decrease crit rate by 5%. All 6 Dire equipment? Increase Condition damage by 5% of toughness, but decrease condition duration by 5%

Those examples are more like a bonus for having a set, but I think it’d add a whole new dynamic to the way people play. Like at that point, is it worth running full sets of something, or is it better to mix and match to experiment?

Like i think of it in WVW, and it would really make Hammer warriors think about whether or not they wanna run full Berserk armor, and rely heavy on self healing, because now they take a lot more damage. Or Full Dire Condi Thieves who have great escaping abilities, but is it worth hiding all the time if your bleed which usually lasts 5s, now only lasts 2s per stack?

I think this would be fun because then it’d add a new level of challenge in the way players play.

I quite like this idea, I guess it follows the same sort of role that warcraft does where using the same armour type gives you a strength / agility / whatever bonus as to stop people minimaxing gear and taking other classes gear.

Though I do like the idea of mixing gear. Take the examples I gave, one set giving 50% chance to stack 2 bleeds instead of one if you only have half of it, or 100% if you have a full set and the other set of gear increasing the amount of stacks of conditions you could have. If you could mix that you’d have, rather than 100% chance to add 2 bleeds per swing, or a max stat of 50 bleeds (random number) you could have 50% chance to stack 2, with a max stack of say 30.

I do like your idea but I do feel it forces players into a certain set up without much experimenting.

Beldin.5498:

Yay .. power, precision, ferocity and condition damage .. to be ready for the
upped condition cap in HoT .. lol

No. That isn’t what I was stating at all. That’s just adding a 4th stat that’s already there.

Power, precision, ferocity, attack speed

If they ever add new stats I’d want them to be Profession specific attributes that DO NOT stack with the trait line.

So for example, an Elementalist will be able to get reduced attunement swap cooldowns without investing any points in arcana. But, the points in the trait line WILL NOT stack with the gear for obvious balance reasons. Maximum attunement cooldown reduction is at 6 Arcana points and can’t go faster. Same for all other professions, steal recharge for Thieves, Virtue recharge for Guardians etc

This new stat will allow the devs to create profession specific skins (that can be transmuted to other professions of course, like starting gear), profession specific storylines, quests specific to a profession, used to ulock new skills and even Specializations.

I would like to see 4 stat celestial style upgrade, that are just without healing power/condition damage for example to begin with and have therefore that HP, FE and CD get no boosts increased stats for P/V/T/Pr.

Name it instead of Celestial then for example the Heroic-Upgrade and I’d so go for it for my main Character ^^

Currently Ascended Celestial for exampl as Amulet gives 57 Points per Stat. If 3 Stats get removed for a 4 Stat Celestial type of Upgrade like my suggested “Heroic” Upgrade, that would be then 171 Points to add to the other four stats in an equal way. Due to 171not beign dividable through 4, the number would have to be increase to 172 to be dividable through 4. That would be then a plus of exactly 43 points.

So a Heroic Upgrade would give to all the 4 Main Stats then a boost of + 100 Points exactly with an ascended Amulet in this case..

Doesn’t that sound nice and good? To me absolutely yes ^^

Rampager or sinister with those new buffs wouldnt equal the damage of zerker unless they were ridiculously OP (and the rampager one is useless since the condi cap is increasing in the expansion) and then people would drop zerker and run only the new sets and youd have a new meta and nothing would change

I guess if they somehow balanced them to be equal dps it could work, but adding an overly complex stat to gear (look how confusing leveling used to be, new players would go crazy with this!) seems like the wrong way to buff condi builds

My main question is if there is a fourth stat on gear what about those people with celestial armor? Would it suddenly be pointless as everything else gets more stats and celest gets worse compared?

In this regard if they started adding more stats I personally think it would lead to the question. Why not just remove stats/ or why not just give everyone all stats always so there is no complaining?

players would just take condition damage as fourth stat and there you go new meta.

Personally, I’d like to see gear that isn’t just major, minor, minor. Gear that actually has interesting effects like a chance to daze when struck or something. Just something to make me care about my gear beyond asthetics.

Izziee.8392:

Cyninja.2954:

Izziee.8392:

By adding a fourth stat to gear, while one may argue it upsets the balance of things, it could instead create a higher diversity while making the other sets more meaningful. Some could argue it makes things more complicated, but I disagree that this is a bad thing.

No it would not. People would again go for the maximum amount of damage and a new set of Zerker gear would emerge.

The fact that Zerker (assassins) gear is picked as main endgame gear has nothing to do with its stats. It has to due with game mechanics and the ability to avoid, dodge, mitigate most/all damage thrown at the group. Adding more stats does not change this. Hence adding another layer of stats would just convolute things even more and end up in people picking max damage once again.

You pretty much contradicted yourself. It has everything to do with it’s stats. That’s the whole point. Zerker gear means you’re pumping out the most damage, because of it’s stats. If the gear didn’t have the stats to do the most damage, people wouldn’t pick it.

So explaining it in a more simple terms – adding a 4th stat would mean you’d be able to increase the damage of the other sets without ruining their role. As said, by increasing power per toughness and precision per vitality on soilders gear, then it would do a lot more damage, but it would be slow but hard hitting. The same goes with the other sets but I won’t repeat the examples. It would increase the damage to all of them (and as I already said, the mobs health could be adjusted to compensate). Having an extra stat means you can tweak the gear much easier to balance them out to do more equal damage while filling different roles.

They didn’t contradict themselves and you missed their point which has been brought up numerous times in all of these anti-zerker (meta) threads that have been popping up frequently as of late.

i play this game in part because there is very little power creep do not try to take that from me.

Ayrilana.1396:

Izziee.8392:

Cyninja.2954:

Izziee.8392:

By adding a fourth stat to gear, while one may argue it upsets the balance of things, it could instead create a higher diversity while making the other sets more meaningful. Some could argue it makes things more complicated, but I disagree that this is a bad thing.

No it would not. People would again go for the maximum amount of damage and a new set of Zerker gear would emerge.

The fact that Zerker (assassins) gear is picked as main endgame gear has nothing to do with its stats. It has to due with game mechanics and the ability to avoid, dodge, mitigate most/all damage thrown at the group. Adding more stats does not change this. Hence adding another layer of stats would just convolute things even more and end up in people picking max damage once again.

You pretty much contradicted yourself. It has everything to do with it’s stats. That’s the whole point. Zerker gear means you’re pumping out the most damage, because of it’s stats. If the gear didn’t have the stats to do the most damage, people wouldn’t pick it.

So explaining it in a more simple terms – adding a 4th stat would mean you’d be able to increase the damage of the other sets without ruining their role. As said, by increasing power per toughness and precision per vitality on soilders gear, then it would do a lot more damage, but it would be slow but hard hitting. The same goes with the other sets but I won’t repeat the examples. It would increase the damage to all of them (and as I already said, the mobs health could be adjusted to compensate). Having an extra stat means you can tweak the gear much easier to balance them out to do more equal damage while filling different roles.

They didn’t contradict themselves and you missed their point which has been brought up numerous times in all of these anti-zerker (meta) threads that have been popping up frequently as of late.

Exactly. I was not contradicting myself. I was stating, without going into to much detail, that the reason why zerker gear is dominant now is that it’s the most useful and potent damage stat combination.

You could overpower condition damage and the new meta would again be maximum condition damage making zerker undesired.

A fourth stat would do nothing to change that. It would end in exactly 1 thing:

→ which stat combo is now best for most damage?
→ pick that stat combo
→ new meta with way more convoluted stats

The reason for Zerker meta is multifold, two of the main ones being:

→ defensive stats are not needed for pve (major reason to go all damage)
→ direct damage is superior to condition damage (pick direkt damage over condition damage stats)

A fourth stat does not change this. How is this so hard to understand?

This thread addresses a symptom, not the core issue. To “fix” the zerker meta issue it isnt about flip flopping a few numbers.

To be honest the people who have issues with the zerker meta actually have issues with the game mechanics of gw2.

If 4th stat would be added the meta would be
power – precision – ferocity – [whatever increase DPS]

Some of the ascended trinkets have 4 stats. Maybe they will add those combos into armour and weapons at some point

Randulf.7614:

Some of the ascended trinkets have 4 stats. Maybe they will add those combos into armour and weapons at some point

Not exactly.
Ascended with 4 stats is the equivalent of an exotic trinket with Zerker stats (ruby) + Valk jewel (beryl) for example, what OP wants is the full set bonus + extra stat

Belzebu.3912:

Randulf.7614:

Some of the ascended trinkets have 4 stats. Maybe they will add those combos into armour and weapons at some point

Not exactly.
Ascended with 4 stats is the equivalent of an exotic trinket with Zerker stats (ruby) + Valk jewel (beryl) for example, what OP wants is the full set bonus + extra stat

Vertical stat progression is against what anet has outlined.

eithinan.9841:

Vertical stat progression is against what anet has outlined.

Which they already somewhat have. Mainly with Masterwork/Rare/Exotic, then adding in ascended gear with a mix of infusions to add limitations to high end fracs.

I never understood Anets mindset on somethings. They seem against things simply because “that other game” does it, or its mainstream in MMOs.

They are game dev hipsters.

BrooksP.4318:

eithinan.9841:

Vertical stat progression is against what anet has outlined.

Which they already somewhat have. Mainly with Masterwork/Rare/Exotic, then adding in ascended gear with a mix of infusions to add limitations to high end fracs.

I never understood Anets mindset on somethings. They seem against things simply because “that other game” does it, or its mainstream in MMOs.

They are game dev hipsters.

Vertical stat progression is a stupid treadmill that “other mmo’s” with a monthly sub need to keep people paying. By far gw2 is superior in this respect.

Izziee.8392:

So explaining it in a more simple terms – adding a 4th stat would mean you’d be able to increase the damage of the other sets without ruining their role.

One of that sets would still emerge as the one with the best DPS. That set would simply take the place of zerker.

The core of the problem lies not in the specific stat combinations, but in the fact that anet tried to mix passive stat bonus armor system, with an active combat that utilizes only some of the stats, completely bypassing others. They’d have done better if they dropped the first part completely and went with the armor system similar to the GW1 one (armor value + situational bonuses).

eithinan.9841:

Vertical stat progression is a stupid treadmill that “other mmo’s” with a monthly sub need to keep people paying. By far gw2 is superior in this respect.

Wouldn’t really call it stupid nor is GW2 any better. The difference is GW2 promotes fluff items to keep players paying, and grinds for cosmetic items to keep others playing. While I do enjoy GW2, I would rather have a “sub based treadmill” then a “barbie mode endgame”.

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Izziee.8392:

Cyninja.2954:

Izziee.8392:

By adding a fourth stat to gear, while one may argue it upsets the balance of things, it could instead create a higher diversity while making the other sets more meaningful. Some could argue it makes things more complicated, but I disagree that this is a bad thing.

No it would not. People would again go for the maximum amount of damage and a new set of Zerker gear would emerge.

The fact that Zerker (assassins) gear is picked as main endgame gear has nothing to do with its stats. It has to due with game mechanics and the ability to avoid, dodge, mitigate most/all damage thrown at the group. Adding more stats does not change this. Hence adding another layer of stats would just convolute things even more and end up in people picking max damage once again.

You pretty much contradicted yourself. It has everything to do with it’s stats. That’s the whole point. Zerker gear means you’re pumping out the most damage, because of it’s stats. If the gear didn’t have the stats to do the most damage, people wouldn’t pick it.

So explaining it in a more simple terms – adding a 4th stat would mean you’d be able to increase the damage of the other sets without ruining their role. As said, by increasing power per toughness and precision per vitality on soilders gear, then it would do a lot more damage, but it would be slow but hard hitting. The same goes with the other sets but I won’t repeat the examples. It would increase the damage to all of them (and as I already said, the mobs health could be adjusted to compensate). Having an extra stat means you can tweak the gear much easier to balance them out to do more equal damage while filling different roles.

They didn’t contradict themselves and you missed their point which has been brought up numerous times in all of these anti-zerker (meta) threads that have been popping up frequently as of late.

Exactly. I was not contradicting myself. I was stating, without going into to much detail, that the reason why zerker gear is dominant now is that it’s the most useful and potent damage stat combination.

You could overpower condition damage and the new meta would again be maximum condition damage making zerker undesired.

A fourth stat would do nothing to change that. It would end in exactly 1 thing:

-> which stat combo is now best for most damage?
-> pick that stat combo
-> new meta with way more convoluted stats

The reason for Zerker meta is multifold, two of the main ones being:

-> defensive stats are not needed for pve (major reason to go all damage)
-> direct damage is superior to condition damage (pick direkt damage over condition damage stats)

A fourth stat does not change this. How is this so hard to understand?

People struggle to comprehend this because there are so many different stat combos available, particularly in pve. I mean why put them there if they have no purpose? They must have a purpose!

One can only assume that anet did not understand their own core mechanics when they were developing the game, specifically that stats on gear is not required.

All it really does is confuses people and makes them think that different stat combos have value (which they don’t).

Characters already seem to have so much in the way of stats that the game is considered by many to be extremely easy. Why is making characters more powerful with no trade-offs a good idea?

I dont see a point in adding a fourth stat – if there’s a problem (not saying there is one here) with stat itemisation they should simply adress it directly.

At any rate, should more stats be added I hope Anet would be smart enough to not introduce any combination that is purely dps.

Beldin.5498:

Yay .. power, precision, ferocity and condition damage .. to be ready for the
upped condition cap in HoT .. lol

Sube Dai.8496:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Izziee.8392:

Cyninja.2954:

Izziee.8392:

By adding a fourth stat to gear, while one may argue it upsets the balance of things, it could instead create a higher diversity while making the other sets more meaningful. Some could argue it makes things more complicated, but I disagree that this is a bad thing.

No it would not. People would again go for the maximum amount of damage and a new set of Zerker gear would emerge.

The fact that Zerker (assassins) gear is picked as main endgame gear has nothing to do with its stats. It has to due with game mechanics and the ability to avoid, dodge, mitigate most/all damage thrown at the group. Adding more stats does not change this. Hence adding another layer of stats would just convolute things even more and end up in people picking max damage once again.

You pretty much contradicted yourself. It has everything to do with it’s stats. That’s the whole point. Zerker gear means you’re pumping out the most damage, because of it’s stats. If the gear didn’t have the stats to do the most damage, people wouldn’t pick it.

So explaining it in a more simple terms – adding a 4th stat would mean you’d be able to increase the damage of the other sets without ruining their role. As said, by increasing power per toughness and precision per vitality on soilders gear, then it would do a lot more damage, but it would be slow but hard hitting. The same goes with the other sets but I won’t repeat the examples. It would increase the damage to all of them (and as I already said, the mobs health could be adjusted to compensate). Having an extra stat means you can tweak the gear much easier to balance them out to do more equal damage while filling different roles.

They didn’t contradict themselves and you missed their point which has been brought up numerous times in all of these anti-zerker (meta) threads that have been popping up frequently as of late.

Exactly. I was not contradicting myself. I was stating, without going into to much detail, that the reason why zerker gear is dominant now is that it’s the most useful and potent damage stat combination.

You could overpower condition damage and the new meta would again be maximum condition damage making zerker undesired.

A fourth stat would do nothing to change that. It would end in exactly 1 thing:

-> which stat combo is now best for most damage?
-> pick that stat combo
-> new meta with way more convoluted stats

The reason for Zerker meta is multifold, two of the main ones being:

-> defensive stats are not needed for pve (major reason to go all damage)
-> direct damage is superior to condition damage (pick direkt damage over condition damage stats)

A fourth stat does not change this. How is this so hard to understand?

People struggle to comprehend this because there are so many different stat combos available, particularly in pve. I mean why put them there if they have no purpose? They must have a purpose!

One can only assume that anet did not understand their own core mechanics when they were developing the game, specifically that stats on gear is not required.

All it really does is confuses people and makes them think that different stat combos have value (which they don’t).

To give players choice in what stat combinations that they want to use. All of these can be used based on the players’ preferences. Not every player has to follow the meta and go with that stat combination that is most optimal. They can go with whatever suits them as they are all viable. They just have to make sure to read the LFG comments to determine there are no player set restrictions for that particular posting. If that doesn’t work, they can create their own LFG.

Power , precision , Ferocity and Elitism

best combo ever!

Power, Precision, Ferocity, Autopilot Melee.

We sword rangers already have this though.