Guild Wars 2

Since the dawn of the announcement of Guild Wars 2, I have never expected such a delicate and artistic style of the game’s AI. Such remarkable feats by professional programmers, drawn to the hardcore testing and rewiring, sharpening and optimizing its efficiency, and enhancing and upgrading its way of thought from the ground up by the creators of the heavy lore game that is Guild Wars 1. Filled with such personality and distinctive features, every mob is remarkably different!

Not so, unfortunately. So far, compared to other games that I have played, they’ve been quite shallow and lacking depth to a game that adds so much combat variety. Maybe this AI is acceptable on a game like World of Warcraft, but with a combat that’s as deep as below the ice berg, the game absolutely cannot reach its full enjoyment potential when 70% of the time I’m engaging with some kind of AI in the game. They’re literally moving punching bags.

So I will have a list (with details and such) for suggestions for the AI. Anybody with an idea that believes it helps the AI is welcomed.

1. Have different behavior for different types of mobs
When the games of TERA and other combat/adventure games came, they had a handful of variety of different kinds of monsters. Charging unicorns, fleeing fairies, and fish that eats your cash when you drop it in the water. While some of these things are subtle to the game world, they add life and encourage explorers to investigate and give light to their friends perhaps a mysterious creature in a underwater cave, slaughtering the Krait mindlessly for a reason hidden in lore (of course, this personally isn’t a great example itself).

Moas having a choice whether to flee from its attacker or maybe a charge, it wouldn’t be so repetitive if I see a refreshing breath of a unique attack from a particular mob. That is, if I don’t see a wild boar trying to act like a horse, that’s a bit off. The 2 minute animations does well, but is only fluff and does no significant impact to the player.

2. Attacks of a handful of variety brings different strategies
I hoped when I finally reached Orr, I would see the Risen attracting attention of its own kind. Perhaps when a Risen mob says “Everybody… Come!” it broadcasts a signal that even alerts the Risen from the other side of the island, creating its own zerg of zombies with teamwork. I also would love to see a mob attack while moving for once, I pity their handicapped skills.

Having strengths and weaknesses in all the creatures of Tyria, much like the Dredge will bring in more variety of combat while having players experiment with potions and traits that help them during their journeys (but not so much as to switch to a different set of traits every time I go to a different map). The Dredge as they are is a wonderful example of how Tyria’s monsters should work. Their underground attack and immunizations/strengths brings different strategies and encourages players to play with different strengths/weaknesses/tactics than the average mindless zerg player.

However, not all mobs should have strengths/weaknesses, because this actually messes up a player’s sense of organization by having to switch to a different set of traits and potions every single time he/she goes to a different map. Attack variety of mobs should be dynamic, a giant jumping and slamming the ground, harpies flying in the air and shooting down projectiles, or the Shatterer actually moving for once, destroying turrents and damaging Charr bases and it wreaks everything in its way.

Maybe one battle I see the Shatterer staying in put because we’re successfully surrounding it, or maybe another battle the Shatterer decides to ram into our defenses, having us to setup layers of turrets and traps and drag the Shatterer to where we need it to go. Giant mid-boss battles should bring a great risk of danger if not completed, not the result of a mighty dragon feeling bored and deciding to fly away.

3. Dynamic locations for monster groups and others
This was a feature I actually expected when GW2 was going to release, that I will never see a bunch of centaurs standing around in a field, and my Dailies say “Kill 10 monsters that look like a centaur”, that makes no different than the traditional MMO.

While the dynamic events add some depth to the world of Tyria, it doesn’t give much of an impact as it should have been when on paper. Dynamic events repeat too often and has little known variety for an area, as I roam around a village I get the captain saying “Help! My friends are stuck in web cocoons! You have to save them!” for the 4th time in the same hour. It’s insane. This repetition makes the player feel weary and gives emotions much similar to a grind. This also leaves the world is very little actual impact, why should players care for the captain’s friends if they have a constant habit of getting stuck in web cocoons?

While we’re not talking about dynamic events in this thread, it is a great problem to the game’s core and makes it personally worse for me when the AI is a bunch of brain dead people. A key step is having animals and mobs migrate place to place around the map depending how the situation goes for meta events and dynamic events. I’d love Skyrim random mob spawning, seeing all kinds of mobs as I explore the map, it gives an enhanced feeling that it isn’t Tuesday every time I go to Queensdale. While these things will most likely go into random stages of cycles, and gives more of an illusion of dynamic events, this is a great start to go with.

TL;DR:
- Mobs and mob groups should have a random location to spawn depending on the dynamic event/meta event situation. They should also have migrations (watching an army of deer moving up north, away from a village for example), and see the beauty of it while on top of a roof. Since the megaserver is kicking in, this feature should be randomized when a map opens. If you love keeping track of animals whereabouts, that really sucks, because I’m not aware of any solution for this.

- Boss battles (champions included) should be different for each battle, having some kind of significant change. So far any significant change I’m aware of is the different kinds of moves a mob could make, being randomized each battle.

- Mobs should be attacking while moving, healing other allies when needed, dodging more, and predict how the player will approach and attack them (example: A player using melee, bandit switches to range and takes a step back). Other various attacks should also be added of different kinds of mobs should be added, too. Horses don’t exist in Tyria, but I’ll still use them as an example. (example: horse has a flee or fight option which will most likely be random. Earth elementals has a self destruct move that spawns tinier elementals which may execute depending on the player’s melee/range and health)

- Mobs should have some kind of awareness to do different strategies and tactics depending on the player’s melee/range, hp, their hp, and what’s going on with their allies and enemies.

- Bosses shouldn’t have large health pools all the time. I solo range them and walk in circles, never got hit. (though that’s an AI issue).

- In dungeons, mobs shouldn’t return back to their position if a player is too far.

- Stacking should be fixed, seriously. No more, please. I occasionally hear the excuse “But it’s quick!”, either because completing them gives little rewards (which is the most plausible) so you have to farm them repeatedly to the most efficient way possible, or people are just lazy. Using sneak and clever ways to skip mobs that doesn’t make the AI look like a blind guy is fine, but stacking is another thing (position exploit).

- I don’t want the captain yelling at me for the 4th time saying his friends got trapped in web cocoons in the same hour

- I don’t want to bash a stick against the Shatterer’s leg to death while this dragon fires its attacks at nothing.

While these suggestions will take many months and probably years to implement, starting on them is better than nothing at all.

Thanks for your time.

I just want mobs to not have the ability to walk away and regenerate all their health while they’re still suffering from my conditions… then turn around and attack me at full health while I still haven’t regenerated because I was still in battle with that exact mob.

I just want mobs to actually have powers. Not “sometimes” “one power” that they “might” pull out if they feel threatened enough in the few seconds before they die.

If you face some of the mobs with lots of skills, they are actually semi-challenging, and that’s all it should be something designed to be ground into dust.

Bosses are the same problem, repeated… too many one shots, no real powers. There’s no creativity at all besides “lol CC and one shot the player” or “lol mass CC and one shot all nearby players”. That’s pretty much it, really.

That said, I agree with many of your points, although I do not feel they are high priorities as they would drain significant resources from bigger problems.

Most of the issue simply lies with mob/boss skill sets/mechanics.

By the way, the Shatterer doesn’t turn because almost all world bosses are immobile. Only a few of them (like the Risen High Wizard) are mobile, the rest are Champions. This seems an intentional design decision by ANet; the mistake is making it so that players can surround and immobile object (no walls, etc.).

I was really hoping this thread would be about “Weird Al” Yankovic. But, I see I was wrong.

Hannelore.8153:

I just want mobs to actually have powers. Not “sometimes” “one power” that they “might” pull out if they feel threatened enough in the few seconds before they die.

If you face some of the mobs with lots of skills, they are actually semi-challenging, and that’s all it should be something designed to be ground into dust.

Bosses are the same problem, repeated… too many one shots, no real powers. There’s no creativity at all besides “lol CC and one shot the player” or “lol mass CC and one shot all nearby players”. That’s pretty much it, really.

That said, I agree with many of your points, although I do not feel they are high priorities as they would drain significant resources from bigger problems.

Most of the issue simply lies with mob/boss skill sets/mechanics.

By the way, the Shatterer doesn’t turn because almost all world bosses are immobile. Only a few of them (like the Risen High Wizard) are mobile, the rest are Champions. This seems an intentional design decision by ANet; the mistake is making it so that players can surround and immobile object (no walls, etc.).

The mechanics and mob movesets would need to be reworked, but I gave some kind of solution to counter this problem. While it does take significant resources to redesign the mobs of Tyria, it would just be a pinch to take some baby steps on stopping this whole issue, at least.

Raine.1394:

I was really hoping this thread would be about “Weird Al” Yankovic. But, I see I was wrong.

Are you saying you want him to produce music for GW2? :v

Interesting post indeed, although shouldn’t this be on the dungeons section? I agree that the ai on gw2 mobs are very limited and unfortunately can be infinitely abused.

Aden Celeste.3650:

Interesting post indeed, although shouldn’t this be on the dungeons section? I agree that the ai on gw2 mobs are very limited and unfortunately can be infinitely abused.

I don’t think it belongs to the dungeon section, but the whole general AI of GW2, which most of it is open world.

- Mobs should be attacking while moving, healing other allies when needed, dodging more, and predict how the player will approach and attack them (example: A player using melee, bandit switches to range and takes a step back). Other various attacks should also be added of different kinds of mobs should be added, too. Horses don’t exist in Tyria, but I’ll still use them as an example. (example: horse has a flee or fight option which will most likely be random. Earth elementals has a self destruct move that spawns tinier elementals which may execute depending on the player’s melee/range and health)

I am against this because it will make movement insignificant. If mobs can attack while moving, what is the point of moving at all?

I want the AI of guild wars 1. Everything had skills and some things you actually had to work as a team to do it, one slip up and it was a wipe condition – this part is tough with an open world ‘there is no team in I’ kinda game like this though.

I want ALL npc’s to be able to res every other npc and players, why can some but others can’t? It’s not like it’s a skill now, it’s default behavior for the majority of the population of Tyria…

I want NPC’s to prioritise MOBS instead of objects first. Nothing like a team you’re escorting beating an object while mobs with skills are beating them…

I want my MINIONS TO DO WHAT I TELL THEM! (I know it’s not an AI thing but still) If my necro had a useful elite I would scrap minions all together and never use them again, but at the moment I’m forced to use minions (trait gives me one I don’t want today) and the other traits aren’t super useful to me in pve.

I want EVERYTHING in the game that should be able to to be able to dodge and otherwise avoid what I’m doing to it – even though I hate it sooooooo much when something moves out of my AOE, it’s stupid that it just stands in it in the first place.

I understand the technical requirements for the AI requests but something needs to be improved in this area.

Point 1 and 2 do exist in the game right now. I guess the lesson from your post is they aren’t noticeable enough?

Point 3, very much agree. The Dynamic Event system provided a starting point for this, but it just needs to expand, it needs to do more to really work in the long term.

Aden Celeste.3650:

Interesting post indeed, although shouldn’t this be on the dungeons section? I agree that the ai on gw2 mobs are very limited and unfortunately can be infinitely abused.

It would probably make sense to balance the mobs in the open world diferently from dungeon mobs, but the basic sentiment is the same for both.

Naqaj.6219:

Point 1 and 2 do exist in the game right now. I guess the lesson from your post is they aren’t noticeable enough?

Point 3, very much agree. The Dynamic Event system provided a starting point for this, but it just needs to expand, it needs to do more to really work in the long term.

Aden Celeste.3650:

Interesting post indeed, although shouldn’t this be on the dungeons section? I agree that the ai on gw2 mobs are very limited and unfortunately can be infinitely abused.

It would probably make sense to balance the mobs in the open world diferently from dungeon mobs, but the basic sentiment is the same for both.

Point 1 and 2 are in the game, just not noticeable enough, yes. Although when it comes to overhauling mobs and creating new mobs, I don’t see much variety so much that I’d have to change my strategy. Only mob type I know of that makes me change my tactics is the Molten Alliance/Flame Legion with their buffs and flamethrowers. My point is that I’d like more variety because most of the time every mob acts the same, this also applies to the current mobs we have.

They all basically sit there on a field, and go back to their spawn post when they get too far. However I do suppose that 2-minute idle animations is something that gives players a more immersive experience, something I do appreciate and enjoy.

runeblade.7514:

- Mobs should be attacking while moving, healing other allies when needed, dodging more, and predict how the player will approach and attack them (example: A player using melee, bandit switches to range and takes a step back). Other various attacks should also be added of different kinds of mobs should be added, too. Horses don’t exist in Tyria, but I’ll still use them as an example. (example: horse has a flee or fight option which will most likely be random. Earth elementals has a self destruct move that spawns tinier elementals which may execute depending on the player’s melee/range and health)

I am against this because it will make movement insignificant. If mobs can attack while moving, what is the point of moving at all?

It actually encourages moving with the idea of using the environment to. Not to mention that people will have to work in order to keep at melee range.