Guild Wars 2

Imagine a zone where there are some elements of PvE with elements if PvP. Some of the logistics might be tricky, but if pulled off correctly, could make for an interesting zone.

Key points:
1. No cannons, arrowcarts, trebuchets, or other strange WvW buildables — this is exactly what I’m trying to avoid.
2. A starting safe area for all coming to the zone
3. Bosses/champs or series of bosses with lucrative loot. Loot can also be stolen by others, say if they do more damage (or Nifhlel style of last hit wins)
4. Players can be killed by other players in unsafe zones
5. A way to form teams/squads, or perhaps teams of 5 is enough? Was thinking perhaps an LFG tab only visible while inside the zone.

I think ANet should try this. Ofc more details need to be worked out, but yeah, had to get it out of my system.

icy`

Considering PvP and PvE are completely separate worlds/platforms in the coding system, an entirely new platform would have to be built into the programming. I don’t know if it’s logistically possible

Anet has enough trouble maintaining three game modes, why would they add an “almost WvW?” And some of that goes against their philosophy, like loot stealing, so why would they do that?

Have you tried a borderlands map in WvW? Or Edge of the Mists?

A new zone with PvP? I would make sure to never go there.

LOL, another post trying to get PvP into PvE. —-—-NOOOOOO.

I’ll go with no thanks, if I want a mix of PvP and pve, I’ll go to wvw.

PvP people already have 2 of the 3 game types. How about sticking with that and leaving PvE to PvE.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

PvP people already have 2 of the 3 game types. How about sticking with that and leaving PvE to PvE.

?

Open world
Fractal/dungeons
LS
Raids

Not that I support his idea that would just be EotM without walls.

Justine.6351:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

PvP people already have 2 of the 3 game types. How about sticking with that and leaving PvE to PvE.

?

Open world
Fractal/dungeons
LS
Raids

Not that I support his idea that would just be EotM without walls.

The 3 games types are sPvP, WvW and PvE.

Unless they’ve really changed things up, raids, open world, fractals/dungeons, LS are all part of PvE.

icy.9250:

Imagine a zone where there are some elements of PvE with elements if PvP. Some of the logistics might be tricky, but if pulled off correctly, could make for an interesting zone.

…I think ANet should try this. Ofc more details need to be worked out, but yeah, had to get it out of my system.

Interesting for whom? You seem to be asking for a different game other than the one offered by ANet. There’s already a mixed PvP/PvE mode (WvW & EotM), although it includes objectives and tools to defend/assault (which you don’t want).

One of the reasons people love this game is that PvE is ‘pure’ — everything is versus environment. Rewards are earned together, not shared; there’s no chance of getting ganked; and there’s no competition (except when ANet has left a mechanics gap and they have been fixing those over time).

In short, I’m sure there’s a fun game out there that offers GW2-like combat in a mixed environment. But there’s no benefit to forcing that onto GW2.

nope this would be such a very bad idea me and a whole lot of people would leave this

game faster then you can say john cena with you cant see me waves . this is just as bad

idea as the dueling mounts kitten junk !!!

OP maybe you should try black desert it seem to have what you want.

We don’t need another game mode, we already have 3. Not signed.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Justine.6351:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

PvP people already have 2 of the 3 game types. How about sticking with that and leaving PvE to PvE.

?

Open world
Fractal/dungeons
LS
Raids

Not that I support his idea that would just be EotM without walls.

The 3 games types are sPvP, WvW and PvE.

Unless they’ve really changed things up, raids, open world, fractals/dungeons, LS are all part of PvE.

spvp and wvw are both pvp by that line of thinking making the game as a whole pve or pvp.

Justine.6351:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Justine.6351:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

PvP people already have 2 of the 3 game types. How about sticking with that and leaving PvE to PvE.

?

Open world
Fractal/dungeons
LS
Raids

Not that I support his idea that would just be EotM without walls.

The 3 games types are sPvP, WvW and PvE.

Unless they’ve really changed things up, raids, open world, fractals/dungeons, LS are all part of PvE.

spvp and wvw are both pvp by that line of thinking making the game as a whole pve or pvp.

Can you opt out of PvP in either sPvP or WvW and be neutral? Can you do PvE only in and not be red to other players in either game mode? No, you can’t. PvP in both of those areas is ‘mandatory’ as there is no neutral or opt out option for either. If it’s not possible to opt out of PvP in an area and there is no PvE that has no possibility of PvP then that area is primarily PvP. This means that PvP players have 2 of the 3 game modes.

I wonder what PvP players would say if PvE players asked for a neutral PvE option in either sPvP or WvW? I bet they would say no PvE in PvP areas. Well, putting PvP in PvE is like adding a neutral PvE option to PvP. It would drastically alter both game types.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Justine.6351:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Justine.6351:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

PvP people already have 2 of the 3 game types. How about sticking with that and leaving PvE to PvE.

?

Open world
Fractal/dungeons
LS
Raids

Not that I support his idea that would just be EotM without walls.

The 3 games types are sPvP, WvW and PvE.

Unless they’ve really changed things up, raids, open world, fractals/dungeons, LS are all part of PvE.

spvp and wvw are both pvp by that line of thinking making the game as a whole pve or pvp.

Can you opt out of PvP in either sPvP or WvW and be neutral? Can you do PvE only in and not be red to other players in either game mode? No, you can’t. PvP in both of those areas is ‘mandatory’ as there is no neutral or opt out option for either. If it’s not possible to opt out of PvP in an area and there is no PvE that has no possibility of PvP then that area is primarily PvP. This means that PvP players have 2 of the 3 game modes.

I wonder what PvP players would say if PvE players asked for a neutral PvE option? I bet they would say no PvE in PvP areas. Well, putting PvP in PvE is like adding a neutral PvE option to PvP. It would drastically alter both game types.

?

raids,
fractals/dungeons,
open world pve
LS

Are all 4 different modes. You cannot move from one mode to another without some kind of shift in play.

Its silly to split spvp and wvw and say they represent 66% of the game and then claim the 4 facets of pve (organized, group, personal story, open world) only represent the remaining 33%.

Justine.6351:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Justine.6351:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Justine.6351:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

PvP people already have 2 of the 3 game types. How about sticking with that and leaving PvE to PvE.

?

Open world
Fractal/dungeons
LS
Raids

Not that I support his idea that would just be EotM without walls.

The 3 games types are sPvP, WvW and PvE.

Unless they’ve really changed things up, raids, open world, fractals/dungeons, LS are all part of PvE.

spvp and wvw are both pvp by that line of thinking making the game as a whole pve or pvp.

Can you opt out of PvP in either sPvP or WvW and be neutral? Can you do PvE only in and not be red to other players in either game mode? No, you can’t. PvP in both of those areas is ‘mandatory’ as there is no neutral or opt out option for either. If it’s not possible to opt out of PvP in an area and there is no PvE that has no possibility of PvP then that area is primarily PvP. This means that PvP players have 2 of the 3 game modes.

I wonder what PvP players would say if PvE players asked for a neutral PvE option? I bet they would say no PvE in PvP areas. Well, putting PvP in PvE is like adding a neutral PvE option to PvP. It would drastically alter both game types.

?

raids,
fractals/dungeons,
open world pve
LS

Are all 4 different modes. You cannot move from one mode to another without some kind of shift in play.

Its silly to split spvp and wvw and say they represent 66% of the game and then claim the 4 facets of pve (organized, group, personal story, open world) only represent the remaining 33%.

game modes, not percent of the whole game. 2 of the 3 game modes are PvP and one of the 3 is PvE.

The 3 game types
1) sPvP: structured PvP in formal arenas
2) WvW: PvP which is non structured open world PvP.
4) PvE: which has no PvP in it.

raids, fractals/dungeons, open world pve, LS: all part of the PvE game mode.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with the OP suggestion so let’s keep to that shall we?

I fail to see what problem this suggestion poses to solve.
Proposal denied.

Well, you guys are forgetting that WvW also groups people by region, whereas my idea is to involve small dynamic parties (perhaps they can only be changed from the safe zone).
I don’t think it’d be as disruptive as some of you make it out to be, just an experimental zone the size of Bitterfrost. There might be some sacrifices, sure, like no gliding, but just imagine many dungeon-style encounters with an extra competitive element.
Different mini-dungeon champs could even be gated off by doors and keys dropped by gatekeepers — a second party trying to steal the kill would need to wait for the key holder to respawn.

icy.9250:

Imagine a zone where there are some elements of PvE with elements if PvP. Some of the logistics might be tricky, but if pulled off correctly, could make for an interesting zone.

Key points:
1. No cannons, arrowcarts, trebuchets, or other strange WvW buildables — this is exactly what I’m trying to avoid.
2. A starting safe area for all coming to the zone
3. Bosses/champs or series of bosses with lucrative loot. Loot can also be stolen by others, say if they do more damage (or Nifhlel style of last hit wins)
4. Players can be killed by other players in unsafe zones
5. A way to form teams/squads, or perhaps teams of 5 is enough? Was thinking perhaps an LFG tab only visible while inside the zone.

I think ANet should try this. Ofc more details need to be worked out, but yeah, had to get it out of my system.

icy`

This sounds like an idea for a whole new game! Good luck with it.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

icy.9250:

Imagine a zone where there are some elements of PvE with elements if PvP. Some of the logistics might be tricky, but if pulled off correctly, could make for an interesting zone.

…I think ANet should try this. Ofc more details need to be worked out, but yeah, had to get it out of my system.

Interesting for whom? You seem to be asking for a different game other than the one offered by ANet. There’s already a mixed PvP/PvE mode (WvW & EotM), although it includes objectives and tools to defend/assault (which you don’t want).

One of the reasons people love this game is that PvE is ‘pure’ — everything is versus environment. Rewards are earned together, not shared; there’s no chance of getting ganked; and there’s no competition (except when ANet has left a mechanics gap and they have been fixing those over time).

In short, I’m sure there’s a fun game out there that offers GW2-like combat in a mixed environment. But there’s no benefit to forcing that onto GW2.

Do you really think it’d be so bad for the GW2 community? All I’m asking for is an experimental zone, in the same way that Bloodstone Fen has its glider skills that are not seen anywhere else. Fen was a test, more or less self-contained in its one area, and in the same way I think we could test this idea out without hugely impacting the ideals of GW2.

Black Iris Flowers.3418:

Considering PvP and PvE are completely separate worlds/platforms in the coding system, an entirely new platform would have to be built into the programming. I don’t know if it’s logistically possible

Completely and utterly false statement.

Anet enabled PvP in Plains of Ashford (ie PvE) during the Shatterer invasion event in the beta of GW2. Players where corrupted by the Shatterer and could engage in combat with regular players (and get instakilled by level 80 Eir and Rytlock NPCs when every player was downscaled to normal PvE level in the zone, lol).

They have never repeated anything close to that event but it most definetly possible.

Plus, Anet says it themselves, on official record – WvW is PvE.

No thanks. I play PvE, PvP and WvW in GW2. I like all of them. BUT NOT AT THE SAME TIME! When I want to PvE I just want to relax, I don’t want to deal with angry PvP freaks. This is why I always avoid open world PvP MMOs.

Keep the PvP out of PvE maps.

I would never touch a mixed map.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Justine.6351:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

PvP people already have 2 of the 3 game types. How about sticking with that and leaving PvE to PvE.

?

Open world
Fractal/dungeons
LS
Raids

Not that I support his idea that would just be EotM without walls.

The 3 games types are sPvP, WvW and PvE.

Unless they’ve really changed things up, raids, open world, fractals/dungeons, LS are all part of PvE.

WvW is a largely PvE game mode in which PvP may occur.

In a pure open pvp zone you will find ganks being the main pvp fights or the out number. Open pvp in a lot of games are not like wvw or even gvg where you have some what even fights and often are able to know when these fights are going to happen. What it would bolid down into is mostly ppl running on stealth thf eng and maybe mez ganking big groups of ppl who are farming the pvp zone.

I think EotM should be made into something like this but with side and objectives to keep the map flowing. Where you are fighting for the 1hr match to get rewards at the end of that match.

Dawdler.8521:

Black Iris Flowers.3418:

Considering PvP and PvE are completely separate worlds/platforms in the coding system, an entirely new platform would have to be built into the programming. I don’t know if it’s logistically possible

Completely and utterly false statement.

Anet enabled PvP in Plains of Ashford (ie PvE) during the Shatterer invasion event in the beta of GW2. Players where corrupted by the Shatterer and could engage in combat with regular players (and get instakilled by level 80 Eir and Rytlock NPCs when every player was downscaled to normal PvE level in the zone, lol).

They have never repeated anything close to that event but it most definetly possible.

Something like this event is possible. Specifically, you can flag players as monsters. In which case, they are attackable by players, and friendly to monsters. Anything more granular (like OP’s suggestion) is a problem and creates bugs (see the SW bandits cave case, it took them months to patch it up).

Besides, one of the core concepts of PvE is that it’s cooperative, not competitive. Anet wanted to avoid any situation where you might see the presence of another player as something negative. So, you are talking about a new, separate gamemode. A PvP one. In which case, we already have two of those. Don’t really need more.

Not to hijack this thread or anything…

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

…faster then you can say john cena with you cant see me waves…

…but this should definitely be an emote that is in-game.

Dawdler.8521:

Black Iris Flowers.3418:

Considering PvP and PvE are completely separate worlds/platforms in the coding system, an entirely new platform would have to be built into the programming. I don’t know if it’s logistically possible

Completely and utterly false statement.

Anet enabled PvP in Plains of Ashford (ie PvE) during the Shatterer invasion event in the beta of GW2. Players where corrupted by the Shatterer and could engage in combat with regular players (and get instakilled by level 80 Eir and Rytlock NPCs when every player was downscaled to normal PvE level in the zone, lol).

They have never repeated anything close to that event but it most definetly possible.

Plus, Anet says it themselves, on official record – WvW is PvE.

How do you know ANet didn’t replace a PvE map with a map with WvW coding for that beta event?

Maybe an arena where guilds could fight it out…… wait for it

icy.9250:

Imagine a zone where there are some elements of PvE with elements if PvP. Some of the logistics might be tricky, but if pulled off correctly, could make for an interesting zone.

…I think ANet should try this. Ofc more details need to be worked out, but yeah, had to get it out of my system.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Interesting for whom? You seem to be asking for a different game other than the one offered by ANet. There’s already a mixed PvP/PvE mode (WvW & EotM), although it includes objectives and tools to defend/assault (which you don’t want).

One of the reasons people love this game is that PvE is ‘pure’ — everything is versus environment. Rewards are earned together, not shared; there’s no chance of getting ganked; and there’s no competition (except when ANet has left a mechanics gap and they have been fixing those over time).

In short, I’m sure there’s a fun game out there that offers GW2-like combat in a mixed environment. But there’s no benefit to forcing that onto GW2.

icy.9250:

Do you really think it’d be so bad for the GW2 community? All I’m asking for is an experimental zone, in the same way that Bloodstone Fen has its glider skills that are not seen anywhere else. Fen was a test, more or less self-contained in its one area, and in the same way I think we could test this idea out without hugely impacting the ideals of GW2.

“All I’m asking for” — what you’re asking for is a huge commitment of resources — it’s not a small thing like adding a few gliding skills. And it’s in the name of trying out something that would make sense for a different type of game.

So yes, I think it would be a mistake for ANet and GW2.

A “test map” where you could flag your toon on or off (maybe with a background story of some different factions to choose from) for pvp wouldn’t hurt anyone.
It’s ridicoulous to say NO without even trying if it could be fun or not. People passed YEARS blaming GW2 for having pve/spvp/wvw all disconnected from themselves like they were 3 different games with no interactions between them. Now everyone is against even trying a different game mode? Games need to evolve to maintain their player base. And please, stop saying ANET said this and that. Many of the original “manifesto” ideas died years ago, no one wanted raids, Anet never wanted to include them in the game in the beginning, for example, but now basically everyone is doing them. So wow! Things that you said were unwanted by the community are now played daily. And people wants more of them.

niea.7504:

Not to hijack this thread or anything…

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

…faster then you can say john cena with you cant see me waves…

…but this should definitely be an emote that is in-game.

even tho i do not like the use of emote at all in this game and keep them turned off

umm i can get that fully but got to wonder if anet could afford that one LOL

Dawdler.8521:

Black Iris Flowers.3418:

Considering PvP and PvE are completely separate worlds/platforms in the coding system, an entirely new platform would have to be built into the programming. I don’t know if it’s logistically possible

Completely and utterly false statement.

Anet enabled PvP in Plains of Ashford (ie PvE) during the Shatterer invasion event in the beta of GW2. Players where corrupted by the Shatterer and could engage in combat with regular players (and get instakilled by level 80 Eir and Rytlock NPCs when every player was downscaled to normal PvE level in the zone, lol).

They have never repeated anything close to that event but it most definetly possible.

Plus, Anet says it themselves, on official record – WvW is PvE.

I must have misunderstood the posts I’ve read about it thus far, thank you for clarifying

icy.9250:

Do you really think it’d be so bad for the GW2 community? All I’m asking for is an experimental zone, in the same way that Bloodstone Fen has its glider skills that are not seen anywhere else. Fen was a test, more or less self-contained in its one area, and in the same way I think we could test this idea out without hugely impacting the ideals of GW2.

The biggest contradiction to GW2 ideals is the loot stealing. Would create a rather unpleasant environment. I could see say, a thief, waiting for someone to do most of the damage on a difficult mob then bursting the player down and stealing the loot. As well as other scenarios

Just a flesh wound.3589:

How do you know ANet didn’t replace a PvE map with a map with WvW coding for that beta event?

Because it’s the same kitten code? There’s no such thing as a “PvE” map. It’s just a map.

The basic PvP of WvW is just a ruleset that set some people as friendlies (ie those on your server) and others as enemies (ie those on other servers). I bet Anet could probably flip it on in any map in a second, even dynamically as the game is running. Would it be an entire gameplay mode with server sides and capture functionality like in WvW? Of course not. That would require alot of coding to fit the map. But it can still be done.

The funniest times in GW2 is when the artificial gameplay limitations break down, ha. WvW went belly up once and created a megaserver abomination. Everyone joined on random servers across all tiers. You could be in T1 and joined T5 EB. It didnt matter which server you where on. Confusing and funny as hell, the short time it lasted lol.

Yet people would probably argue that you cant possible play WvW on another server than the one you are currently on, that’s not in the code…

Gw2 players like everything on a silver platter.

Dawdler.8521:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

How do you know ANet didn’t replace a PvE map with a map with WvW coding for that beta event?

Because it’s the same kitten code? There’s no such thing as a “PvE” map. It’s just a map.

The basic PvP of WvW is just a ruleset that set some people as friendlies (ie those on your server) and others as enemies (ie those on other servers). I bet Anet could probably flip it on in any map in a second, even dynamically as the game is running. Would it be an entire gameplay mode with server sides and capture functionality like in WvW? Of course not. That would require alot of coding to fit the map. But it can still be done.

The funniest times in GW2 is when the artificial gameplay limitations break down, ha. WvW went belly up once and created a megaserver abomination. Everyone joined on random servers across all tiers. You could be in T1 and joined T5 EB. It didnt matter which server you where on. Confusing and funny as hell, the short time it lasted lol.

Yet people would probably argue that you cant possible play WvW on another server than the one you are currently on, that’s not in the code…

If it was so easy to make a PvE map have open world PvP then this quote would not be true.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/TemperHoof/072012/23486_Guild-Wars-2-Redefines-Open-World-PVP
“The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible. World versus world is our version of open world PvP, and while it isn’t ‘true’ open world PvP for more PvP purists, it does contain many of the elements that make world PvP so exciting. Hopefully it will mostly satisfy people that want open world PvP.” — Mike Ferguson

Black Iris Flowers.3418:

icy.9250:

Do you really think it’d be so bad for the GW2 community? All I’m asking for is an experimental zone, in the same way that Bloodstone Fen has its glider skills that are not seen anywhere else. Fen was a test, more or less self-contained in its one area, and in the same way I think we could test this idea out without hugely impacting the ideals of GW2.

The biggest contradiction to GW2 ideals is the loot stealing. Would create a rather unpleasant environment. I could see say, a thief, waiting for someone to do most of the damage on a difficult mob then bursting the player down and stealing the loot. As well as other scenarios

Yeah, the loot stealing might be a bit controversial, but I would argue that it’d add a new level of excitement. Hopefully there’d be ways to have your party temporarily control an area (e.g. after defeating a gatekeeper in a boss antechamber) and thus make it difficult for cherry-pickers to sneak in. But part of the strategy (and fun!) should be to check for hiders before committing to one of these dungeon-like bosses.
Another idea: on boss reset of area in question, everyone gets kicked out to nearest safe area. Thus no-one could possibly be hiding for a long time near boss itself (and logouts would return you to nearest safe area).

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If it was so easy to make a PvE map have open world PvP then this quote would not be true.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/TemperHoof/072012/23486_Guild-Wars-2-Redefines-Open-World-PVP
“The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible. World versus world is our version of open world PvP, and while it isn’t ‘true’ open world PvP for more PvP purists, it does contain many of the elements that make world PvP so exciting. Hopefully it will mostly satisfy people that want open world PvP.” — Mike Ferguson

First, your quote is from 2012. You know, before the time many things that we actually got in GW2 as QoL features was brushed aside as impossible?

Secondly, of course it doesnt support fully open world PvP because there is nothing in GW2 that’s fully open world. WvW instances is PvE instances that’s been stripped for speed. Of course by now we also know he’s absolutely right – more complex PvE events combined with active PvP would be highly likely to completely choke the servers. Anet has proven that with DBL – they couldnt get the oasis event proper so they had to remove it. And that was just one event, a PvE map has many such events. So transplanting PvP on top of current PvE maps might not be ideal, no. But I have little doubt it’s possible if you design the map for it… Because that’s what WvW is. Whether you call it PvE or WvW based on how many NPCs populate it is rather irrelevant.

Just another open world PVP thread.

The answer is still the same.

No.

Dawdler.8521:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If it was so easy to make a PvE map have open world PvP then this quote would not be true.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/TemperHoof/072012/23486_Guild-Wars-2-Redefines-Open-World-PVP
“The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible. World versus world is our version of open world PvP, and while it isn’t ‘true’ open world PvP for more PvP purists, it does contain many of the elements that make world PvP so exciting. Hopefully it will mostly satisfy people that want open world PvP.” — Mike Ferguson

First, your quote is from 2012. You know, before the time many things that we actually got in GW2 as QoL features was brushed aside as impossible?

Secondly, of course it doesnt support fully open world PvP because there is nothing in GW2 that’s fully open world. WvW instances is PvE instances that’s been stripped for speed. Of course by now we also know he’s absolutely right – more complex PvE events combined with active PvP would be highly likely to completely choke the servers. Anet has proven that with DBL – they couldnt get the oasis event proper so they had to remove it. And that was just one event, a PvE map has many such events. So transplanting PvP on top of current PvE maps might not be ideal, no. But I have little doubt it’s possible if you design the map for it… Because that’s what WvW is. Whether you call it PvE or WvW based on how many NPCs populate it is rather irrelevant.

First, your quote is from 2012. You know, before the time many things that we actually got in GW2 as QoL features was brushed aside as impossible?

Soooo, you’re saying the cooperative nature of PvE maps has changed so much that this quote isn’t relevant? Or maybe you’re saying the aging, finicky engine that they’re afraid to touch on core coding because of fear of multiple bugs springing up is no longer that aging or finicky?

So transplanting PvP on top of current PvE maps might not be ideal, no. But I have little doubt it’s possible if you design the map for it… Because that’s what WvW is

Yep. That’s what I’m saying. Transplanting PvP on top of current PvE maps won’t be ideal, unless you design the map for it like WvW was.