Guild Wars 2

I simply wanted to post my personal reaction to Chris Whiteside’s announcement (linked below) and encourage others to do the same:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/721451

Thank you Chris Whiteside. As a dedicated play of both Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2, I must say that I am honestly nervous about the availability of these items due to the associated stat increase. If they can be gained from multiple sources without a high degree of grind that is perfectly acceptable and in line with the games philosophy as I understand it. I also think having unique skins in the more difficult challenges is acceptable and consistent. What has me nervous as I said is accessibility. Personally, I am very bad at dungeons and I believe I am not the only one. So the one thing I ask is that these rings and back items be accessible through sources other than the new dungeon. Thank you for your time, Arenanet has truly made a wonderful game.

Moderator Edit: removed CoC infraction from thread title

Quote: Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two.

But, that’s the thing, there wasn’t ANY jump between the two EXCEPT in terms of aesthetics… I’m still unsure why ascended gear was deemed necessary and his post does not explain anything except that there most likely WILL be more tiers of gear coming… just not every 3 months. That doesn’t dispel any worries.

I never doubted that the new gear would be “difficult” to get and I don’t believe that is the concern behind their introduction. The concern is that there will be gear progression from now on and it is an upsetting change in philosophy.

Personally, I’m glad that there is new content so soon, but higher level of stats is not the same as new content. It is quite possible for new content to exist without any change in stats.

What a surprise! They DO care about us players! C’mon, maybe know everyone should rest a bit and just wait for things to happen.

It seems great that ANet is worried about the player base and already releasing such a huge update like this one!

I think we should wait till everything is implemented and we try it out before we raise another stink about the Ascended gear progression issue. Anet have a terrible mentality of announcing new systems in early stages and leaving out other core bits of information.

Yes thank you for adding a gear treadmill to a game that was supposed to be different. And then calling it something else in the hopes people wouldn’t notice.

I love content, I love challenge. Gear checks are neither.

Car.3805:

Quote: Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two.

But, that’s the thing, there wasn’t ANY jump between the two EXCEPT in terms of aesthetics… I’m still unsure why ascended gear was deemed necessary and his post does not explain anything except that there most likely WILL be more tiers of gear coming… just not every 3 months. That doesn’t dispel any worries.

I never doubted that the new gear would be “difficult” to get and I don’t believe that is the concern behind their introduction. The concern is that there will be gear progression from now on and it is an upsetting change in philosophy.

Personally, I’m glad that there is new content so soon, but higher level of stats is not the same as new content. It is quite possible for new content to exist without any change in stats.

I think the gap is more about how easy/hard it is to get vs stats/aesthetics. Most exotics are fairly easy to acquire or don’t take that long to get, where the legendaries (without help) take A LOT of time, materials, and effort to get everything you need to make them. My guess this bridge is more for something that’s generally harder/takes more effort than an exotic while less than what you’d need for a legendary. Some exotic pieces you can get for like 1 or 2 gold a pop and all.

That said, while this post did ease my worries a bit, I’m still a little anxious about the whole thing. I was never flipping tables over the announcements and am willing to see how this plays out, but I am definitely still a little nervous about how things may turn out. It’s too hard to say for certain how things will end up at this point when we don’t have the update live yet.

This is the first time I’m posting on the forums. I’m not a fan of public whining and I have no intention of sticking around just to whine. But I have some serious concerns.

Ascended gear is the beginning of gear grind. It just is, there’s no way around it. Infused slots seem to play into the agony mechanics so it’s logical to assume that, as patches arrive, we will see infused stuff as a necessity to play more and more content. This means, stats aside, you are required to have Ascended gear. This makes crafting absolutely useless because all gear without an infused slot is useless. Or will be soon enough.

Let me just add to this that I actually like the concept of Agony, Ascended gear and Infused slots. They remind me of Guild Wars. It’s nifty, really. It took me a while to figure out it also invalidates the entire premise of Guild Wars 2 game design and stated ideals they’ve been talking about for years. I hope someone, somehow will fix this.

I also have never posted (unless you count the deleted post I just made).
I’d like to state my opinion that I’m all for new content and new items but I hope this doesn’t gate content. One of the design ideals that Dawngreeter refers to is content being open to all. A great example of this is the new dungeon sidekicks you up to level 80 (as WvW already does). This is brilliant and something that I’ve not seen on that scale in other MMORGs.
However I am worried that Agony and Infusions will turn out to be a gate (maybe not straight away).

Wasnt it stated that each elite dungeon would have its own condition to attune to, which you only need in order to farm more, err, go deeper.

Iirc, infusion doesnt block content, you can still run the dungeon, how deep you can go in an endless dungeon is the only “gate”

So, if you aren’t in ascended gear, you can still run Fractals. You just can’t get up to difficulty (insert number). As long as there isn’t some super uber item that you can’t get unless you can go in at difficulty (insert high number) thus requiring ascended armor, it’s not a treadmill.

Plus, the traditional treadmill everyone is worried about is the entire “making all old armor obsolete”. If the previews are anything like the finished product, Fractals is doable in your wimpy blues and greens. :P

Doable isn’t a concern. Ease of acquiring isn’t a concern either. It is not about stat points. You know all gear without an infused slot is going to be worthless 15 minutes after its Ascended counterpart makes an appearance.

People do not go “oh, well, I’m not too concerned that I can’t go so-and-so deep into this fractal dungeon”. People will go “any equipment without an Infused slot is not a worthwhile investment”. As anyone from any game with an auction house will tell you, an item insignificantly weaker than a max stat item is, for all intents and purposes, worthless.

Chackan.2813:

What a surprise! They DO care about us players! C’mon, maybe know everyone should rest a bit and just wait for things to happen.

It seems great that ANet is worried about the player base and already releasing such a huge update like this one!

Get up to speed man. That post from Whiteside was made two days ago and it basically says they are putting in a gear treadmill but not calling it a treadmill. It’s not new and it’s not good news.

It worries me that a designer doesn’t know there is no step up between exotics and legendarys, currently they have the same stats.

Ok, let me share some of my thoughts on all of this.

Yes, it looks like we will get Ascended Gear from sources other than Fractals of the Mist, which is a good thing for those who will want the minor stat increases for Ascended Gear, yet have no desire to play FotM. This is a good thing and fits with the overall game design. So, no forced Dungeon Runs to get Ascended gear.

This initial FotM release only includes Ascended Rings and Back Armor. This greatly dilutes the “gear inflation” factor introduced by the Ascended Gear.

It seems pretty clear, putting all the information released thus far together, that future Ascended Gear items will be released to compliment major content additions to Fractals of the Mist. Fractals of the Mist is slated for ongoing expansion over the “months and years to come”.

I would speculate that we will not see full sets of Ascended gear any sooner than one year from now. It’s possible the interval could be even longer.

This is about as mild and manageable an introduction of purpose driven “gear inflation” as we have ever seen in an MMO and I can’t imagine a more “gentle” method of gear inflation than what we appear to be getting for GW2 via Ascended Gear.

Yes, there is a minor stat boost involved here, but it seems clear that the biggest purpose of Ascended gear will be the introduction of Infusion Slots and direct Agony mitigation, which, at this point, seems will be exclusively relevant to the FotM Dungeon Experience and more specifically relevant to players who will be seeking to push the incremental difficulty/reward boosting system for consecutive FotM runs to the absolute limit.

Some, but not all, non FotM players may eventually wish to acquire basic Ascended Gear for the stat boosts. Some, but not all, FotM players will actively pursue Agony Mitigation in order to push their FotM experience to the absolute limits. (Many players may be perfectly happy to complete one to three waves at a go, with no time/desire to push deeply into the difficulty progression).

By no means is this new, measured “gear inflation” a necessary progression for most players. Most of the future inflation is horizontal, via introduction of new gear slots sporting Ascended Gear options, rather than vertical. We have no idea how Arenanet plans to expand the game through major expansions. Will they raise the level cap? We just don’t know. There could be further vertical progression in the years ahead, but if the inflation between Exotic and Ascended and the slow horizontal build out of Ascended Gear is any indication, any future vertical progression is likely to be very shallow.

@Osprey

Really? Cause the post I read pretty much stated “Hey, we’re not going to be doing the treadmill thing that other games do where each new update provides a new set of armor better than the last that you have to get to even complete any content whatsoever”. They’re implemented a new tier of armor. Once. For going in to the very deepest parts of a dungeon that is completely doable without said armor, just not as far.

When they implement a level above ascended, then start the worry mongering and calling them liars and the treadmill is starting. Cause a single data point does not equal a trend. Until then, chill the heck out and don’t try and rain on someone’s parade who actually likes the update. Not -every- topic has to be about how ascended armor is going to ruin the game.

EndlessDreamer.6780:

@Osprey

Really? Cause the post I read pretty much stated “Hey, we’re not going to be doing the treadmill thing that other games do where each new update provides a new set of armor better than the last that you have to get to even complete any content whatsoever”. They’re implemented a new tier of armor. Once. For going in to the very deepest parts of a dungeon that is completely doable without said armor, just not as far.

When they implement a level above ascended, then start the worry mongering and calling them liars and the treadmill is starting. Cause a single data point does not equal a trend. Until then, chill the heck out and don’t try and rain on someone’s parade who actually likes the update. Not -every- topic has to be about how ascended armor is going to ruin the game.

No, no, Endless….just hand them a paper bag and let them exhaust themselves. It’s rather depressing to have thread after thread after thread about a system that no one seems to trust the devs to do right on. Honestly…y’all have trusted the devs with your $60 to play the game, have obviously sunk a ton of hours into it to get your exotics (or be posting atm), and yet you think that this is the beginning of the frickin’ end.

From what I can tell of legendaries, there is a minute statistical difference between them and exotic weaponry; not enough to be imbalanced, but enough to still let some spreadsheet player to justify their expense. Ascended will allow those gear-monkeys something else to strive for, and from that post it seems that the devs will let those who refuse (for some reason) to run dungeons…to still obtain Ascended gear in other ways.

This is not going back on their promise any more than they already did with exotics; you can’t tell me there isn’t some form of grind to get a full set of exotic gear. Heck, to get exotic jewelry is an incredible expense. So please, to everyone bemoaning Ascended gear, please shutup until it’s in the game. Until then, we can’t be certain of its effect on the game.

Fiontar.4695:

Ok, let me share some of my thoughts on all of this.

Yes, it looks like we will get Ascended Gear from sources other than Fractals of the Mist, which is a good thing for those who will want the minor stat increases for Ascended Gear, yet have no desire to play FotM. This is a good thing and fits with the overall game design. So, no forced Dungeon Runs to get Ascended gear.

This initial FotM release only includes Ascended Rings and Back Armor. This greatly dilutes the “gear inflation” factor introduced by the Ascended Gear.

It seems pretty clear, putting all the information released thus far together, that future Ascended Gear items will be released to compliment major content additions to Fractals of the Mist. Fractals of the Mist is slated for ongoing expansion over the “months and years to come”.

I would speculate that we will not see full sets of Ascended gear any sooner than one year from now. It’s possible the interval could be even longer.

This is about as mild and manageable an introduction of purpose driven “gear inflation” as we have ever seen in an MMO and I can’t imagine a more “gentle” method of gear inflation than what we appear to be getting for GW2 via Ascended Gear.

Yes, there is a minor stat boost involved here, but it seems clear that the biggest purpose of Ascended gear will be the introduction of Infusion Slots and direct Agony mitigation, which, at this point, seems will be exclusively relevant to the FotM Dungeon Experience and more specifically relevant to players who will be seeking to push the incremental difficulty/reward boosting system for consecutive FotM runs to the absolute limit.

Some, but not all, non FotM players may eventually wish to acquire basic Ascended Gear for the stat boosts. Some, but not all, FotM players will actively pursue Agony Mitigation in order to push their FotM experience to the absolute limits. (Many players may be perfectly happy to complete one to three waves at a go, with no time/desire to push deeply into the difficulty progression).

By no means is this new, measured “gear inflation” a necessary progression for most players. Most of the future inflation is horizontal, via introduction of new gear slots sporting Ascended Gear options, rather than vertical. We have no idea how Arenanet plans to expand the game through major expansions. Will they raise the level cap? We just don’t know. There could be further vertical progression in the years ahead, but if the inflation between Exotic and Ascended and the slow horizontal build out of Ascended Gear is any indication, any future vertical progression is likely to be very shallow.

Well put! Not enough well thought out responses around here. This thread seems to be heading towards a reasonable discussion.

I personally hypothesize that exotic gear will remain competitive due to the increased customization. (Baring whatever they do with infusion slots) Remember fellas, they’re introducing 200 new recipes and a new gatherable resource. Could it be that some of these new recipes are for runes, sigils, and gems that would upgrade exotic gear?

I see Ascended gear as being the “slightly higher base stat along with infusion” dungeon gear, while exotic remains a “customize however you wish to take advantage of your play style.”

Just a hypothesis at the moment. But at the moment, I just cant chew on the idea of anet throwing out exotic gear, and their entire upgrade system. I need more info!

Yup. Big two words are “We’ll see”.

They have a good track record so far, so I’m not gonna waste my energy assuming it’ll go badly.

I have to agree with the OP, I’m not so upset with the added armor tier (however it does seem to be in contradiction to the doctrine the game was developed around) as I am the fact that the mechanics of it revolves around dungeons.

I don’t run dungeons much, I don’t like them, I don’t like waiting for a group to start up or standing around in Lion’s Arch looking for one. I want to play when I want to play and log out when I want to log out without feeling guilty about leaving 4 other players a man short.

For me the strongest feature of this game is the Event System that spontaneously brings players together in the open world and this new armor really seems directed to one single play stile, so what’s in it for the rest of us?

Developers said I could keep playing the game I want to play at level cap that I liked to play. They actually said “if you don’t like doing dungeons you don’t have to” and up to now that’s been true, I can find a path to the top end gear through crafting, completing my achievements , open world events or running dungeons.

So how can the rest of us that don’t particularly like running these little repeatable pockets of the game get the top end gear? The main reason I came to this game was because all the good content wasn’t hidden away in instanced game play….. but that seems the way this game is going.

in my opinion GW2 is not good enough to be turned into a gear grind game and its just a mistake for them to try. It does not have the depth of combat that other mmo games have for pve, it does not have the bars full of skills, it does not have large scale raids, and on and on. All they are doing is catering to a vocal minority of bottom feeders who think because they have no life and can play all day every day they are entitled to be better than everyone else through artificial stat boosts on their gear. these players essentially are saying they want better items so their actual player skill is not the deciding factor…. which is quite ludacris considering they already can play more than everyone else and should be better players by default. how bad are these players really…. the bottom of the barrel no lifers with no skill if you ask me.

GW2 however is a great game to keep advancing as a PVP game. The limited skills and equal gear means its much easier to keep balanced for PVP fans. I would rather see them spend that time and effort into expanding the PVP section of the game. I think A-net is messing up and without a monthly fee they may not really notice for a long time.

Draeka.5941:

EndlessDreamer.6780:

@Osprey

Really? Cause the post I read pretty much stated “Hey, we’re not going to be doing the treadmill thing that other games do where each new update provides a new set of armor better than the last that you have to get to even complete any content whatsoever”. They’re implemented a new tier of armor. Once. For going in to the very deepest parts of a dungeon that is completely doable without said armor, just not as far.

When they implement a level above ascended, then start the worry mongering and calling them liars and the treadmill is starting. Cause a single data point does not equal a trend. Until then, chill the heck out and don’t try and rain on someone’s parade who actually likes the update. Not -every- topic has to be about how ascended armor is going to ruin the game.

No, no, Endless….just hand them a paper bag and let them exhaust themselves. It’s rather depressing to have thread after thread after thread about a system that no one seems to trust the devs to do right on. Honestly…y’all have trusted the devs with your $60 to play the game, have obviously sunk a ton of hours into it to get your exotics (or be posting atm), and yet you think that this is the beginning of the frickin’ end.

From what I can tell of legendaries, there is a minute statistical difference between them and exotic weaponry; not enough to be imbalanced, but enough to still let some spreadsheet player to justify their expense. Ascended will allow those gear-monkeys something else to strive for, and from that post it seems that the devs will let those who refuse (for some reason) to run dungeons…to still obtain Ascended gear in other ways.

This is not going back on their promise any more than they already did with exotics; you can’t tell me there isn’t some form of grind to get a full set of exotic gear. Heck, to get exotic jewelry is an incredible expense. So please, to everyone bemoaning Ascended gear, please shutup until it’s in the game. Until then, we can’t be certain of its effect on the game.

http://www.gw2db.com/items/63468-sunrise

Weapon Strength: 1011 – 1117
+182 Power
+130 Toughness
+130 Vitality

http://www.gw2db.com/items/48101-invaders-greatsword

Weapon Strength: 995 – 1100
+179 Power
+128 Toughness
+128 Vitality
(From PVP)

http://www.gw2db.com/items/62818-dark-asuran-greatsword

Weapon Strength: 995 – 1100
+128 Power
+179 Condition Damage
+128 Vitality

(From dungeons)

http://www.gw2db.com/items/56632-clerics-pearl-broadsword

Weapon Strength: 995 – 1100
+128 Power
+179 Healing
+128 Toughness

(From Crafting)

http://www.gw2db.com/items/52739-carrion-forest-greatsword-of-rage

Weapon Strength: 995 – 1100
+128 Power
+179 Condition Damage
+128 Vitality

(Random Drop)

2 stats in the secondary and a might difference of 3 in the primary.

The stat difference between exotic and ascended is far more than that.

Edit: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sunrise
+179 Power
+128 Toughness
+128 Vitality

It’s exactly on par with other end game exotics now.

I’d prefer to be congratulating ANet for sticking to their word, legendaries having the same stats as exotics with sexier skins and exotics be the end for gear quality.

So.

No thanks to the idea of this thread.

EndlessDreamer.6780:

So, if you aren’t in ascended gear, you can still run Fractals. You just can’t get up to difficulty (insert number). As long as there isn’t some super uber item that you can’t get unless you can go in at difficulty (insert high number) thus requiring ascended armor, it’s not a treadmill.

Plus, the traditional treadmill everyone is worried about is the entire “making all old armor obsolete”. If the previews are anything like the finished product, Fractals is doable in your wimpy blues and greens. :P

Endless its a hint at a trend which doesn’t in my opinion fit with the current design goals. As you say yourself Ascended Gear is a gate to very high difficulty fractal dungeons. This isn’t in itself a problem however it sets a precedent. One that could (hopefully not) lead to future expansions that perhaps need Ascended Gear to get in at all.
I love the idea of the Fractal dungeon – its yet again something I’ve not seen before – good work GW2 ! However making dungeons harder by virtue of knocking up the damage tick is something I’m very familiar with – its not new and to be honest it doesn’t work. It encourages game developers to rely on that more and more for the difficulty instead of innovating excellent content like the Fractals themselves. Imagine how cool a Fractal dungeon would be that got harder and harder the further you went without Agony. Wow that would be something – but admittedly much harder to do.