Guild Wars 2

joanisa.5768:

All the last patch/update of gw2 have made the game harder. Trains are gone (queensdale and old frostforge) and dungeons are getting harder (some of the old tactics dont work anymore).

The irony of course being that there’s a lot (and I mean a lot) of complaining in this very forum about how casual and easy GW2 is. The irony then being that if they make things a bit more difficult that’s also a bad thing. Catch-22. But I guess you can’t make everyone happy.

joanisa.5768:

People are quitting the game because best itens are almost impossible to buy and the best ways to make gold are being destroyed by gw2.

GW2 has some very bad inflation. I don’t really agree with how ANet is doing, but I do think that managing the gold in circulation is important for the very issue you’re mentioning. TP is very much beyond us poor peoples ability to do anything with, because there’s such a large disparity between the casual player and the grinders / tp flippers.
Luckily though this doesn’t really become a major issue until ANet starts implementing gold sinks around the richest players (i.e. items and stuff) and as such leaving people like me out.

Queensdale train was bad, Frostgorge was not.
My overall champtrin time is 1 hour since i found it extremely boring.

But they helped economy keeping T6 and ecto prices in check.
And i suspect this is the issue.

Gw2 is seeing some manouvers that seems to be addressed at changing game economy.

They first push grinding into the game (that is also a huge goldsink), then nerfs farming that ORIGINAL development team said many times it was a good thing, decreassing supply (you get more materials than raw gold).

They are destroying this game economy in every possible way.

I am only curious to know if its part of a plan or its just due to mistakes over mistakes.

Without the insane grinding, people would actually even enjoy pugging arah p4.

@LordByron:
It is not just about economy, but also about enjoyment.

Champion trains in starter areas were removed, because it was unwelcoming to new players. This is (rightly!) deemed more important than any contribution it may have to the game economy’s health.

Also, ArenaNet is not actively regulating the game economy. Their actions are limited to placing gold sinks (and item sinks, like ascended crafting) and managing loot drop tables. The prices of items on the tradepost are not controlled by them, only by supply and demand. ArenaNet’s resident economist, John Smith, appears to be monitoring the game economy more than anything else; all market interventions are indirect (for example, by compiling reward tables for festival events).

When circumstances change (either through players behaving differently or outside influences, such as e.g. Crown Pavilion opening), the possibilities for making profit shift. When this happens, economic agents (i.e. many players) will likely adapt their behaviour, in order to maximize their return on (time) investment. And in response to this, prices may shift and other players may start changing their behaviours, and so on.

You complain about this, yet it is only normal, healthy economic behaviour. An economy in which nothing ever changes and all prices are fixed is not a healthy one, and ArenaNet is not actively trying to do this. If one avenue for making profit closes, you have to go looking for another one. This is not punishment, this is market dynamics.

What happened to the Frostgorge train? I’ve been mapping the area on and off over the last week or so and there’s always a train there. It doesn’t seem to be as many people as there were in Queensdale but I put them down to “players” who want to mindlessly farm champions being split between there, Orr and the Pavillion.

Danikat.8537:

What happened to the Frostgorge train? I’ve been mapping the area on and off over the last week or so and there’s always a train there. It doesn’t seem to be as many people as there were in Queensdale but I put them down to “players” who want to mindlessly farm champions being split between there, Orr and the Pavillion.

Nothing happened to the Frostgorge train. You need to actually get there first though and finding your way around a map if you only did queensdale is hard.

Danikat.8537:

What happened to the Frostgorge train? I’ve been mapping the area on and off over the last week or so and there’s always a train there. It doesn’t seem to be as many people as there were in Queensdale but I put them down to “players” who want to mindlessly farm champions being split between there, Orr and the Pavillion.

The train was disturbed because the 3 champs on the northwest corner became the “trio” and shared one timer.

Also, aside from the Pavillion, there also seems to be some changes with CS that came along with the Megaserver and the recent patch. Scaling events now spawned more mobs and events themselves happen more frequently, almost like the old CS timers (two years ago) when CS was lucrative for farming.

Not to mention that EotM not only has its own champ train, but also gives you badges, empyreal frags and dragonite ore, WvW experience, and bags from player kills.

Truth is, there are more (fun) ways to farm now.

Sunshine.4680:

I’m confused as to why people want the ETOM train gone, it hurts nothing.. if you want to wvwvw go play a real map. I find it funny that there is always a group within this game that wants to force people to play it their way. You’re all the same, bunch of self entitled whiners who think your way is right. GW2 community is terrible, even WoW didn’t have this level of angst and people trying to force everyone to march in a line.

But alas, trains are bad, people should have to be forced to do harder content for lesser rewards and it’s all for the greater good. Why don’t you people take that in and think about a certain type of people you sound like.

Anet are you reading this? Don’t let the toxic weirdos ruin your game. They are a small, vocal group that seems to be driven to force other people to do what they want.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

ArenaNet could have solved the “Queensdale train” issue in two possible ways to bring effort and reward back in line:

1. Increase the difficulty of the champions.
2. Decrease the reward.

Option 1 was not desirable, because starter areas are not a suitable place to put greatly difficult encounters.
So they went with option 2; decreasing the rewards. (Although the demotion of champions to veterans also made the encounters easier.)

No to 1 (as you said) – because the champs in Queensdale were for new players to understand mechanics not 50 – lvl 80’s to zerg the champ into oblivion.

2. was done but did not stop the champ train. So, the made the champs veterans. If you want the champ train now all you need do is go to the EotM – that is where the mindless zergs are now. The thing is in EotM, all you need is 15 people who play WvW and are organized to smash the little champ train zerglings into the dust – because an organized group will always smash mindlessness.

projectcedric.6951

Truth is, there are more (fun) ways to farm now.

And this is a bad thing?

They are not trying to loose players if they are improving the quality of life for new players.

What you consider something wrong, its an amazing improvement for new players.

I recently brought 3 friends to start playing GW2 and you know how hard is to explain why they are seeing a huge raid of lvl 80s running in circles in a lvl 10 map in a way that doesn’t make the game look bad? Or doing their first dungeon… “now we run and stack, smash, run and stack, smash, etc…” yeah dungeons are fun!.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

projectcedric.6951

Truth is, there are more (fun) ways to farm now.

And this is a bad thing?

No, its a good thing. I especially like the way CS has become active again. And even in CS alone, there are two crowds of farmers -champ trains, and event farmers.

Well, obviously, they are not trying to lose them on purpose, but due to poor execution of Season 1 out of close to 4 mln players that bought the game, probably around 1.5-2 mln still log in into the game from time to time.

Just look at the stats that has been released only recently to see that the earnings from Europe alone dropped by around 50%, if I remember correctly.

I do hope they release an expansion-worthy piece of content via Season 2 this year, e.g. new explorable zones, races, classes, weapons, skills ( plethora, not just 2 or 3 for each class ). If at least half of these is introduced this Season, I’m going to log back in into the game for sure until some other game releases are out in 2014/15.

nexxe.7081:

rincewind.9528:

nexxe.7081:

Defend.9678:

I’m not disregarding what you say about Guildwars 2 being a more relaxing experience for an mmo overall but there comes a point when people just want more of a challenge something to work towards like a wall to get over not only alone but with friends and guild mates. The whole game is currently built around casual players but there becomes a point where people want/need more progression. Before anyone says go play <mmo> here if you want a challenge I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t love this game for what it is.

I agree. There should be more challenging open-world content, but for smaller groups, since the bigger groups already have Wurm and Tequatl.

Champ trains are so ridiculous, and they need to be stopped, whether it’s in Queensdale, or in Frostgorge, or anywhere. It’s just a big zerg, running from champ to champ, with no challenge or strategy, at all.

Anet needs to kill them once and for all, and stop encouraging it.

The easiest solution is to just put them on random timers. They could’ve also made them available as guild missions.

Once champ trains are gone, then players will start doing other content again, such as temples, dungeons, etc.

As it is currently, endgame for gw2, is seeing 50+ people running in circles from champ to champ, because it’s currently the fastest way to get loot. This doesn’t happen in other MMOs, and it just feels like amateur game-design.

Quick solution: Random timers & Zone-wide announcement that a champ spawned.

So, if players don’t play the way you like they’re wrong and must be corrected.
Nice.

It’s not about what i like. It’s about bad game design. Is it really intended for the world of Tyria, to see hundreds of people running around in circles, killing the same mobs over and over, in a short amount of time, multiple times a day?

Have you ever played Diablo 2 ? Made 100s of Mephisto or Pindle runs at one day ?
Okay you haven’t done it with 100s of other players, but that was totally common in a really really successful game.

So who cares if its bad design in your eyes, when masses of player like it.

It depends who “you” are. If you are one among the many players, you are right. If you happen to be the owner or chief developer of the game, you may have legitimate concerns.

However, one mistake many people make is that they exaggerate their own numbers, until they believe “everybody” agrees with them. If one million players like doing X, but two million players are bothered by all those people doing X, then something probably needs to change.

Cryhards… It’s never been easier to get gold in this game. Back at launch you were frickin loaded if you had 50g to rub together. Now I earn over 100 a week playing only a couple hours a day.

Beldin.5498:

Have you ever played Diablo 2 ? Made 100s of Mephisto or Pindle runs at one day ?
Okay you haven’t done it with 100s of other players, but that was totally common in a really really successful game.

So who cares if its bad design in your eyes, when masses of player like it.

Lol oh those were the days. 500 nightmare mephistos for a stone of jordan.

Beldin.5498:

Have you ever played Diablo 2 ? Made 100s of Mephisto or Pindle runs at one day ?
Okay you haven’t done it with 100s of other players, but that was totally common in a really really successful game.

Apples and oranges.

D2 is a hack and slash. GW2 is a MMO.

There are a few unannounced dungeon changes. What players really hate are re-learning things they thought they already mastered. Players do not hate learning new things but not re-learning things.

It isn’t a big deal to old regular player like myself since these changes, in my perspective, are minor. However, to the newer players who might have learn how to do dungeons yesterday, or a few days or maybe a week ago, might be confused about the sudden change. To the returning players, these changes will make them feel the game is completely different and will be at a lost, then decided not to play again.

thaooo.5320:

Beldin.5498:

Have you ever played Diablo 2 ? Made 100s of Mephisto or Pindle runs at one day ?
Okay you haven’t done it with 100s of other players, but that was totally common in a really really successful game.

Apples and oranges.

D2 is a hack and slash. GW2 is a MMO.

Not really a big difference, in the end in both you mostly kill mobs for loot.

Too bad, I liked killing a champion “out of order” in queensdale, upsetting some players stuck in their daily routine.

Now just to fix the glaring issues with cheesing through dungeons. It’s hilarious to see people “stack” while no one is using any combo fields what so ever and wonder why they die.

This “mastering the game” is really just learning the way of least resistance, making the game stale and boring grind. It’s no more than stack in this corner, here the boss can’t hit you, or use stealth here and ignore this boss. I mean, if mastering the game is learning to avoid half of the encounters, sure. But as far as I know, none of those tactics actually make you a better player.

It’s funny that people are flailing their arms around and screaming in terror when they have to use their brain and actual skill. That all the while the content isn’t even that complicated in a 5 man.

“People are quitting the game because best itens are almost impossible to buy and the best ways to make gold are being destroyed by gw2. "

people are joining the game because best items can rarely be purchased anymore and the lack of trains is adding more diversity for gold making in gw2.

No facts behind the first claim…so the second claim is equally valid.

Beldin.5498:

thaooo.5320:

Beldin.5498:

Have you ever played Diablo 2 ? Made 100s of Mephisto or Pindle runs at one day ?
Okay you haven’t done it with 100s of other players, but that was totally common in a really really successful game.

Apples and oranges.

D2 is a hack and slash. GW2 is a MMO.

Not really a big difference, in the end in both you mostly kill mobs for loot.

I’ll admit the D2 story and how it is told is better than GW2. Something new gen story writers don’t seem to understand is that both good and evil wouldn’t stand around chatting about the weather and discussing their plans, they’d get down to business. Obviously D3 failed at this as well. My god D3 was terrible in almost every single aspect.

But, D2 is constantly about rolling new characters and builds, and gearing them up. Example, on new servers, on the same server, and if your character is deleted on official realms. And there’s no economy.

In GW2 most people only roll one of each class since you can respec at any time. And the characters are designed to last for infinity years, so if all loot was too easy very soon it would all be vendor trash. There’s a giant economy which everyone is forced to use, and the game and its drops are based around the entire player base using the Trading Post, so drops are lower, and easy ways (skill-less ways) to make money are nerfed.

In an MMO harder content should be better rewarded, not the easier content.

I wouldn’t mind GW2 making me loose every now and then when I’m feeling too tight.

Uruz Six.6594:

I wouldn’t mind GW2 making me loose every now and then when I’m feeling too tight.

‘Shake it off’ is pretty loose.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Azrael.4960:

er, is making a game more challenging a bad thing? Is encouraging people to play other content a bad thing?
If all you do is train farm in the hopes of getting that shiny, that’s addiction.

THW went from being difficult, yet reliable to run, to a total crapshoot. Guardian’s WoR, SoA, Ele’s Swirling Winds, and Mesmer’s Feedback no longer reflect the Wurm’s eggs. AFAIK, TTS is still working out the kinks on how to reflect crap now.

Swirling Winds doesn’t reflect projectiles.

nolij.4327:

making the game harder and nerfing gold farming methods accomplishes two things

1. people who are dedicated players who like to farm for stuff will quite, making server load lighter

Or, you know, people who like to farm will have to look for a different place to farm. Like, you know, maybe the frostgorge champ train which was already more profitable than the queensdale one. The only champ trains that were destroyed were the ones in the lvl 1-15 zones. And besides, champtrain farming of any kind never was the fastest way to farm gold. Doing dungeons is far better for that.

2. people who aren’t so dedicated but still want gold will end up spending even more money on buying gold because it’s now impossible to make gold by playing the game

Or, people will have to find a different way to make money in the game. They still exist, they’re just slightly less mindnumbing.

it’s very easy to understand these kind of situations once you face the fact that it’s all about the money

You’re right that it is about the money, but you’re wrong about it being so easy to understand since you got it wrong about how it’s about the money.
They didn’t destroy the champtrain in queensdale to prevent players from making money (since there are still plenty of other ways to make money that made more than the champtrain in queensdale before the changes), they did it to adjust the experience of the game for new players and they’ve said as much. When a new player loads up the game and sets off into queensdale for the first time, their initial encounters with the champtrain can have a few negative affects. For one, players who mostly ignore the train and just go around doing what they encounter would often stumble upon one of the champs in the train and start trying to kill it. Then, when some one from the train noticed or show up to find their champ already dead, the new player gets accosted with all sorts of insults and negativity because their train was “ruined”. This leads to a very negative experience with the game and could make the player think that all this awful negativity is indicative of the community at large and lead them to quit. Secondly, a new player may stumble upon the champ train early on and become informed on how the champtrain works and being told that it’s a good way to level and make money and get caught up in doing it. They might end up leveling a great deal in just queensdale and make it a considerable way to 80 without ever really learning how to play the game or seeing what the game’s about. Then once they try other content, the state of their gear/traits/skill will leave them unequipped and everything will seem far too complicated and difficult because they’ve just been champ training for so long already. With the train killed, they likely won’t see or even hear about a champtrain until they are much higher level and have things more figured out.

nolij.4327:

inb4 “omg how dare anet try to make money blah blah blah”

yes, anet deserves money for content. however, taking present content and making it harder is not content, and therefore not deserving of money.

it’s sad to say that i’m thinking about leaving too, for wildstar

This most recent couple of patches weren’t even pretending to be new content. The bazaar was intended to fill 3 primary purposes:
Give players who missed the bazaar and pavillion before a chance to do it.
Give players at least a little something to bridge the gap till Living Story Season 2 starts.
Give players who missed various meta-achievement rewards another chance to earn them.

The “real content” starts coming out again July 1.
(inb4 Living Story isn’t content because it isn’t all permanent. Just because it isn’t content that you personally like and just because all of it isn’t permanent doesn’t mean it’s not content. Do people even know what the word content means??)

Shufflepants.9785:

nolij.4327:

making the game harder and nerfing gold farming methods accomplishes two things

1. people who are dedicated players who like to farm for stuff will quite, making server load lighter

Or, you know, people who like to farm will have to look for a different place to farm. Like, you know, maybe the frostgorge champ train which was already more profitable than the queensdale one. The only champ trains that were destroyed were the ones in the lvl 1-15 zones. And besides, champtrain farming of any kind never was the fastest way to farm gold. Doing dungeons is far better for that.

2. people who aren’t so dedicated but still want gold will end up spending even more money on buying gold because it’s now impossible to make gold by playing the game

Or, people will have to find a different way to make money in the game. They still exist, they’re just slightly less mindnumbing.

it’s very easy to understand these kind of situations once you face the fact that it’s all about the money

You’re right that it is about the money, but you’re wrong about it being so easy to understand since you got it wrong about how it’s about the money.
They didn’t destroy the champtrain in queensdale to prevent players from making money (since there are still plenty of other ways to make money that made more than the champtrain in queensdale before the changes), they did it to adjust the experience of the game for new players and they’ve said as much. When a new player loads up the game and sets off into queensdale for the first time, their initial encounters with the champtrain can have a few negative affects. For one, players who mostly ignore the train and just go around doing what they encounter would often stumble upon one of the champs in the train and start trying to kill it. Then, when some one from the train noticed or show up to find their champ already dead, the new player gets accosted with all sorts of insults and negativity because their train was “ruined”. This leads to a very negative experience with the game and could make the player think that all this awful negativity is indicative of the community at large and lead them to quit. Secondly, a new player may stumble upon the champ train early on and become informed on how the champtrain works and being told that it’s a good way to level and make money and get caught up in doing it. They might end up leveling a great deal in just queensdale and make it a considerable way to 80 without ever really learning how to play the game or seeing what the game’s about. Then once they try other content, the state of their gear/traits/skill will leave them unequipped and everything will seem far too complicated and difficult because they’ve just been champ training for so long already. With the train killed, they likely won’t see or even hear about a champtrain until they are much higher level and have things more figured out.

nolij.4327:

inb4 “omg how dare anet try to make money blah blah blah”

yes, anet deserves money for content. however, taking present content and making it harder is not content, and therefore not deserving of money.

it’s sad to say that i’m thinking about leaving too, for wildstar

This most recent couple of patches weren’t even pretending to be new content. The bazaar was intended to fill 3 primary purposes:
Give players who missed the bazaar and pavillion before a chance to do it.
Give players at least a little something to bridge the gap till Living Story Season 2 starts.
Give players who missed various meta-achievement rewards another chance to earn them.

The “real content” starts coming out again July 1.
(inb4 Living Story isn’t content because it isn’t all permanent. Just because it isn’t content that you personally like and just because all of it isn’t permanent doesn’t mean it’s not content. Do people even know what the word content means??)

That’s why people say “permanent content”, not just “content”.

Probably losing players is only a collateral result of making more money.
In my opinion this could be what is happening:
(Excluding TP)
Dungeons = best income
Easy dungeons = inflation, but pugs do them too, so the wealth gap between poor and rich is a bit mitigated
Hard dungeons = still easy for guilds, pugs avoid them
Less pugs runs = less gold for them
Pugs ~ Casual

3 possible outcomes for casual/pugs:

• Ignoring new items on the black lion trading company/ascended for alts
• Leaving
• Buying gems with real money

If a few non-paying user (the ones that are more inclined to leave) leave, they will be replaced by a single new player and his entry fee (box).

WingLegacy.7159:

joanisa.5768:

All the last patch/update of gw2 have made the game harder. Trains are gone (queensdale and old frostforge) and dungeons are getting harder (some of the old tactics dont work anymore). People are quitting the game because best itens are almost impossible to buy and the best ways to make gold are being destroyed by gw2. From my usual group of friends to create a party (about 13 people), only 3 of them keep playing everyday since the last update. Im getting frustraded too and i just dont get what is the point of this.

thanks.

People were crying to remove champ train in Queensdale and FG. And now they got their wish people are complaining why is it remove….just amazing.

Different people…..just amazing.

“Is gw2 trying to lose players?”

I’m guessing thats rhetorical, but they are without a doubt. Excluding China, the numbers are going down. Facts or facts.

shawn.1298:

“Is gw2 trying to lose players?”

I’m guessing thats rhetorical, but they are without a doubt. Excluding China, the numbers are going down. Facts or facts.

I don’t know if it’s going up or down or sideways. But if you’re gonna claim ‘facts’, you should show the evidence.

Sunshine.4680:

I’m confused as to why people want the ETOM train gone, it hurts nothing.. if you want to wvwvw go play a real map. I find it funny that there is always a group within this game that wants to force people to play it their way. You’re all the same, bunch of self entitled whiners who think your way is right. GW2 community is terrible, even WoW didn’t have this level of angst and people trying to force everyone to march in a line.

But alas, trains are bad, people should have to be forced to do harder content for lesser rewards and it’s all for the greater good. Why don’t you people take that in and think about a certain type of people you sound like.

People want the EotM farm gone because it’s not what EotM was supposed to be. It’s supposed to be a less serious WvW where players can do what they like in WvW without the pressure of failure. A bastion for open world PvPers to experiment, hone their skills or have mock battles in a more relaxed atmosphere.
Then someone found out you could do a loot train and all that ideal was thrown out the window. The place that was a resort for open world pvpers, was turned into just another mindless farm route where PvP is even discouraged.

shawn.1298:

“Is gw2 trying to lose players?”

I’m guessing thats rhetorical, but they are without a doubt. Excluding China, the numbers are going down. Facts or facts.

All games lose players over time asymptotically. It is to be expected. The way they get the number of players to spike back up is by putting the game on sale and releasing new content. What I’m saying is it’s not necessarily a bad thing that GW2 is losing players. It’s only natural. It gains some players back every time there’s a sale, and it will gain significant numbers if they ever release an expansion.

Dual.8953:

People want the EotM farm gone because it’s not what EotM was supposed to be. It’s supposed to be a less serious WvW where players can do what they like in WvW without the pressure of failure. A bastion for open world PvPers to experiment, hone their skills or have mock battles in a more relaxed atmosphere.
Then someone found out you could do a loot train and all that ideal was thrown out the window. The place that was a resort for open world pvpers, was turned into just another mindless farm route where PvP is even discouraged.

Is that ANet’s official position, or is this something you inferred from the release notes that came out with the EotM update.

That phrase ‘supposed to be (x)’ gets tossed around a lot regarding content, but usually without any evidence. I’m not trying to be a kitten about this, just genuinely curious.

And Re: the topic at hand, GW2 seems to be trying to maximize profits (consistent monetization) with minimal effort (sparse content and updates). Standard practice for any business, but it sucks for us as consumers.

joanisa.5768:

All the last patch/update of gw2 have made the game harder. Trains are gone (queensdale and old frostforge) and dungeons are getting harder (some of the old tactics dont work anymore). People are quitting the game because best itens are almost impossible to buy and the best ways to make gold are being destroyed by gw2. From my usual group of friends to create a party (about 13 people), only 3 of them keep playing everyday since the last update. Im getting frustraded too and i just dont get what is the point of this.

thanks.

Guild Wars 2 is still a game trying to define itself and it’s going to be like that for some time. One of their design philosophies is based on the idea that they are not afraid to change things. That is something a lot on games are unwilling to do so in a way it is kind of nice having Anet do it. However, it does cause a lot of difficulty for the community and economy. I’ve seen several players leave the game, come back, and leave again because their is so little depth.

But no, Anet is not trying to lose players. I think they do have a long way to go before the community is stable though. Remember the game doesn’t have a sub fee. So people can come and go and come back again. That seems to be the one consistent thing about GW2.

Losing players seems to be the most logical answer I suppose. Even as upset as their fan-base is they just keep rolling out these greed patches. You can pay for the living story you missed with cash soon!

LordEnki.9283:

Losing players seems to be the most logical answer I suppose. Even as upset as their fan-base is they just keep rolling out these greed patches. You can pay for the living story you missed with cash soon!

Only if you don’t log onto the first 2 weeks it is open (LS2) – the older LS1 story is free the first 2 weeks – please give ‘the A.Net greed’ cry a break. It is fair.

Would rather them lock things away forever?

@OP: Adding challenge and difficulty to the game is more than welcome, its desired. I’m not saddened by the loss of a few trains, as not all trains are gone. Nor am I disappointed at speed-running dungeons becoming a little less speedy. Farming has, whether you believe it or not, gotten out of hand over the last year. The inflation on everything is killing the market. If you can’t see how making 15g/hour is a bad thing, then nobody will ever be able to convince you otherwise.

Why do we farm anyways? I mean think about it. Aren’t we all just farming to increase our personal stockpiles of gold, materials, and precious items for when the game does actually become a good game again? Isn’t new content and increased difficulty something we should welcome with open arms? Otherwise I ask what the point of collecting and farming is…. Beyond just a hamster wheel.

A lot of people in this thread seem to be (willingly) missing the point. Or perhaps I am. TC isn’t complaining that the game has been made more difficult, he’s complaining that earning gold – and by extension, the ability to purchase items – has been made more difficult.

It’s not like these changes have been made so that the skilled among us must accomplish X, Y, and Z to earn the cool new armor just added to the game, because new armor and weapons are rarely added to the game as rewards. Instead they’re slapped in the gem shop to be obtained with cash or gold. And changes have been made to make it harder to earn gold. Ergo it’s harder to get new items without the game actually being more difficult.

This thread isn’t about the game difficulty, it’s about “wallet fishing”.

Dusty Moon.4382:

LordEnki.9283:

Losing players seems to be the most logical answer I suppose. Even as upset as their fan-base is they just keep rolling out these greed patches. You can pay for the living story you missed with cash soon!

Only if you don’t log onto the first 2 weeks it is open (LS2) – the older LS1 story is free the first 2 weeks – please give ‘the A.Net greed’ cry a break. It is fair.

Would rather them lock things away forever?

We’d rather have perm contents that doesn’t cost a thing except “Expansion”. No one wanting for temp contents in the first place.

Gold Boss farm in the Pavilion will give you 150+ champ box per hr so I would say champ farm is buffed if anything

Killface.1896:

Gold Boss farm in the Pavilion will give you 150+ champ box per hr so I would say champ farm is buffed if anything

It is temp content lol.

darkace.8925:

A lot of people in this thread seem to be (willingly) missing the point. Or perhaps I am. TC isn’t complaining that the game has been made more difficult, he’s complaining that earning gold – and by extension, the ability to purchase items – has been made more difficult.

It’s not like these changes have been made so that the skilled among us must accomplish X, Y, and Z to earn the cool new armor just added to the game, because new armor and weapons are rarely added to the game as rewards. Instead they’re slapped in the gem shop to be obtained with cash or gold. And changes have been made to make it harder to earn gold. Ergo it’s harder to get new items without the game actually being more difficult.

This thread isn’t about the game difficulty, it’s about “wallet fishing”.

Its becoming increasingly difficult to buy items because of constant inflation. With gold flooding the market, the value of that gold lowers, making items more expensive over time. It is not the gem store that has done this. Its over farming. How is ArenaNet supposed to solve this problem?

Nerf farming/loot or increase farming options/loot gain? Which do you really think is better. If we were to go with the latter option, or even stay current with the same model we have been running with for the last year, just imagine how much items would cost in another 2 years. DUSK may end up costing more than Twilight is today, t6 mats will be 1g+ each, etc etc. It would be an ever increasing nightmare.

The reason some feel pressured into buying gems and converting into gold is also our fault, not ArenaNet’s. We’re so used to getting 10g/h, 15g/h, and so on and so on – We’ve gotten carried away. Now that its slowing down, people are panicking. Let deflation happen.

Inflation is a kitten. Look what its done to us.

Flash.6912:

Dusty Moon.4382:

LordEnki.9283:

Losing players seems to be the most logical answer I suppose. Even as upset as their fan-base is they just keep rolling out these greed patches. You can pay for the living story you missed with cash soon!

Only if you don’t log onto the first 2 weeks it is open (LS2) – the older LS1 story is free the first 2 weeks – please give ‘the A.Net greed’ cry a break. It is fair.

Would rather them lock things away forever?

We’d rather have perm contents that doesn’t cost a thing except “Expansion”. No one wanting for temp contents in the first place.

Well – people wanted a ‘LIVING WORLD’ and so A.Net tried something. To me, it was fine. Since you aren’t talking for anyone but yourself – your ‘NO ONE’ comment is false (since you weren’t talking for me unless you are saying I am a NO ONE (don’t tell) – demonstrative Yes or no answers are more than likely wrong.

Also in GW1 -Prophecies, Factions and Nightfall were separate games, separate books of a trilogy, but games since you could play any of them without the other (like reading the separate books in a trilogy). There were 2 expansions in GW1 – EotN and the Historians.

>>>The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.<<<<

And these folks aren’t the reason things keep getting nerfed. The reason things keep getting nerfed is because of the other end of the spectrum – the folks who play to win and use every exploit they can find to do so. All of the players who aren’t exploiting the game are scrubs by the definition given, everyone who plays “fair”. The book that quote comes from goes on to say “The scrubs will play for fun and not explore the extremities of the game. They won’t find the most effective tactics and abuse them mercilessly”. The good players “found the cheap stuff and abused it”. These are the players who are the reasoning behind nerfs, they found something cheap and abused it until Anet changed it then they cry their exploit is gone.

It stinks but that’s how it is.

Anet should have never promised anything to the casual players to begin with. MMO’s are, by design, not meant to have the challenge of a casual fps shooter (which is what GW2 felt like). The challenge of MMO’s is what used to make the genre so appealing. You made one character (for the most part) and stuck with it because developing, leveling, enhancing, molding, spending countless hours upgrading (etc etc) that toon made it yours.

Now, in comes GW2 and 15-18 80s later you’re left wondering what in the world to do. Your 15 80s mean nothing to you, you have no investment in them, you don’t cherish any of them. Why? Because getting them to 80, maxing out their gear and getting them to look how you want consisted of not very much effort. So the player gets bored, the player moves on, the game looses population, the company looses money and so the story goes. This is one of the problems Anet faces.

Console games and the companies that make them benefit the most from casuals. However, an MMO company would be best advised to chase casuals and their yearnings far from their game. They usually wreck havoc on a community and are never around long enough for the company to generate a slow but steady income from them. By catering to them, you, inevitably, take from the experience enjoyed by a loyal “dedicated” MMO player. And this is something I’m not sure is a good route for the MMO genre.

I believe this is where Anet went horribly wrong. In trying to cater to the casual, they totally ignored the endearing “trappings” of the MMO game; a well developed story, engaging/explanatory lore, memorable npcs, interesting/fun and challenging encounters. In short, it is not embellished and or lacks substance.

In particular, I would like to refer you, again, to the festival of the four winds, as a microcosm of the GW2 world and experience. The map/area is great looking, the scenes and views are awesome. However, that’s all there is to it. SO much space and area…for nothing. What do you do there exactly? There are no npc’s in four winds you engage with that truly take/bring you into what this area is really about, what it’s story is. There are no “quests” or activities that introduce you to this realm; apart from talking to the Kiel lady (sp). And why is this? Because the casual player doesn’t care about these types of things. And so the festival of the four winds is really more a pretty place and less a reason to log in. And with that I will leave you with this wise and wonderful quote:

“Pro money is slow money but its sho’ money.”

I’m glad the trains are gone- too often my guild would recruit & 70% of the players had only experienced GW2 through the champ trains so therefore had no clue how to do jack except follow a train.
If you know how to actually play your class, changing an aspect of a dungeon to make 1 part abit harder should not be a problem.

I played every dungeon that had a stealth nerf after patch. Our completion time and difficulty to complete did not change.

I think bad players are upset they can’t cheese content anymore, whereas good players will hardly notice the difference. Just an opinion.

Azrael.4960:

er, is making a game more challenging a bad thing? Is encouraging people to play other content a bad thing?
If all you do is train farm in the hopes of getting that shiny, that’s addiction.

But you can only nerf so much. After a while the entire game will be nerfed into oblivion and people will be cheering for the guy who got a blue to drop.

I dont’ know what you mean good players or bad players.

If you mean players that want to log and play anytime they want are bad players, sure. Since they’ll most likely have to join pug.