Guild Wars 2

Lue.6538:

Yargesh.4965:

Several people have lost their jobs in Iceland, being open to the whims of the players is no guarantee you will be able to pay your rent.

Oh really? You mean the WoD department, which was scrapped because CCP utterly failed to form a coherent plan for the game and what approach it would be taking?
Or do you mean the simple fact that countless of developers at CCP has left for other companies..

The Eve players aren’t making unreasonable requests either, nor are they to blame for the various individuals who lost their jobs at CCP or elsewhere on Iceland.. But I’m sure you know something I don’t.

There are two separate rounds of layoffs being discussed here (both of them centered around their GA office actually). The recent one (related to WoD MMO) was longer-term fallout of the DUST product not working out well as an income stream. Yargesh is probably referencing the first round; that was fallout from the introduction of their cash shop, and the (valid) ‘concern’ that the game was being positioned to become PtW. The short-term result was a massive falloff in active subscriptions.

[The PtW discussion has not come up as much here, which I consider one of GW2’s better decisions/strengths. Some of their decisions related to Gems are certainly annoying at times, but I cannot call any of it PtW (go look at Travian for an extreme example to compare with).]

And to clarify my definition of hardcore, reference the statement in my sig. I’m talking about methods that boil down to ‘social engineering’ – and usually are not in-game (i.e. other private websites like Kugu, EveWho, other metadata scanning etc). Most of it is legal within Eve, and even IRL if done correctly (though it does get overzealous at times). I’ve seen some of these same methods (and their counters) used with the upper tier WvW servers – which is why I’m not at all interested in the Tournaments.

The train had all kinds of people. I know my one friends got cussed out for killing one of the champs and he didn’t even know the QD train existed till I mentioned they removed it.

With the easiest dungeon runs, today itself, in about 4 hours I’ve gotten 30g, and made about 10 more golds by selling the materials and items gotten from these.
What is so harder in dungeons? That Spider Queen is more comfortable to be killed normal way, despite it can be still killed in the stack?
That breeder has to be killed manually in p2?
That you need to dodge here and there to kill troll in HotW p1?
For the rest, I’ve not seen much changes actually, unless it bugs you the fact that the WP in Arah p1 finally spawns in the right moment and doesn’t force you to return to starter wp every time in case you fail skipping part.

Dusty Moon.4382:

tigirius.9014:

Sunshine.4680:

Jornophelanthas.1475:

If you want free loot with no effort, then interactive games like Guild Wars 2 are not for you. In fact, there is a classic MMO that should suit your purposes just fine: Progress Quest. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_Quest)

How does asking for rewards that match the difficulty mean people just want something for nothing?

It doesn’t they just like to marginalize people who are actually making valid points but instead of directing their attacks at the points people make about historically how this system is flawed and destroyed whole gaming companies they’d rather attack the people call them lazy and tell them to go elsewhere.

Well guess what we’re not going anywhere. Either argue against our points or don’t post it’s simple, isn’t there some clause about not attacking other players? Well I personally feel that their statements that somehow people are lazy and want something for nothing is in fact an attack and they shouldn’t be allowed to post such arguments. If we eliminate the fluff maybe we can get some real suggestions going on how to improve the game.

I’ve also read recently an interview talking with economist who is in charge of the economy we have. He left out alot when he was explaining some things to the interviewers, like how there were loot bugs, DR bugs, the ability to login on multiple accounts for the same queen chest on the Island launch day that gave certain lucky people an enormous advantage with not one but multiple precursors to sell which adversely affected the economy because it created this games very own 1%. It allowed people an exploit which was never addressed. Since then the costs for anything that is functional or effective in combat or crafting has steadily increased on top of many items increasing in price over a few months of having that island event make these people very rich in game.

Other more recent articles have left out this history as well as the most recent of nerfs to open world nerfs to loot. Might I point out that one of the selling points of this game was that players could play how they wished and that no one should be forced to play only in certain ways. That means no one should have to WVW, Eotm, Train, or Run dungeons endlessly in order progress if they prefer the open world.

How can we expect honesty when we’re not getting the full picture of what’s really happening for the sake of the shareholders?*

We don’t need to know that information. Also, A.net does not have shareholders, NCSoft does. Since they are a Korean company they work under Korean laws not ours.

Besides, it is arrogant of players to think they are the same as shareholders.

I don’t train and I am progressing fine. Just because you think Trains are needed for progression, doesn’t mean it is the truth. The players that do trains are just lazy.

Thanks for proving my point entirely in one reply post about how players don’t actually attack the problem or debate they simply attack the posters and players.

Anyone who has an ounce of awareness can see that trains are a symptom of a larger problem with the game’s economic design.

Here’s an example of how alike the D3 economy was to the current model GW2 is using, D3 had an equivalent to trains did you know that? They have players that were posting online to form groups to farm certain areas/dungeons that were known to drop certain legendaries. The only reason why this wasn’t frowned upon like it is here is due to the fact that D3 isn’t an mmo but it in no way makes the design any less similar in the economics that were being used. Whole groups of people got together to “farm” events in the game in only certain high loot areas because all of the other loot anywhere else was nerfed due to the economic model of the RMTAH.

But keep on blaming the players instead of actually directing your disappointment at the design of the economy in the game because that’ll help. >.>

As a new GW2 player, I thank Anet for disrupting the Queensdale train. I don’t mind about the existence of a train like that, but it being on a starter zone, especially of the most played race, causes a very bad impression for the people that are just joining GW2.

As a new GW2 player, I thank Anet for doing their best at disrupting speedrun gimmicks in dungeons. I mean, when I enter a explorable mode, I’m expected to know my profession and how to work in group in dungeons. Sorry, but I’m NOT expected to know that I need to stack on corner X, or run pass a corridor full of enemies and jump on a specific place to reset them, because they are not intended to do mechanics! Sure, I’ll do if they kindly tell me how to, but being honest, this scenario of kindness almost never happens.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

Huge snip

Replying to your unrelated statement regarding your style of gameplay within the old Queensdale champ train, of course I know you used skills, revived other players, and used your healing skill. You missed the entire point completely.

All one would have to do to participate and receive a champ bag in the Queensdale train was /join a random party, spam auto attack, pick up the drops and move on. When you’re in a party the damage requirement to get tagged in for item drops reduces significantly. That was not a personal insult to how you play the combat of this game, but remains correct on how easy it was, and is, to profit from a champ train.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

And I like how you ignore the part that specifically states how the nicect people to me in Guildwars2, save my guildmates from GW1 were; Train-Running Motherkitteners. The nicest people, who helped me way more that asking the “pro” gamers like yourself in High-End areas.

The people who do QD/Train were the perfect people to introduce me into this game. Sorry that wasn’t the same more others. Maybe it’s because I played on the German server, who knows. Even then, it never kittened them off that I barely know the language. They still helped.

Not a single reason is stated here on why the Queensdale champ train should have stayed beyond; “muh feelingssss.” You even acknowledge the fact that others fell victim to the abuse and online harassment of these farmers, is this not elitism? You’re defending these people dude. The only shred of text that mentioned the “nicect people” of your Queensdale train was, " But players would just thank me and be on their way to fight it. This made me feel useful." As well as, “..and I have NEVER been raged at by players for kittening up the train.”

So as long as it’s not you, it’s justified? The Queensdale train lashed out at newcomers who attempted to fight the champions, that is not a community aspect that will be missed.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

Ok explain how I’m personally holding back the game by participating in trains?

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

Also let me end with I never said the changes were bad/whatever for the game, just that -I- did not like them, and MY style of gameplay.

Don’t you love it when people answer their own questions? When you argue and make statements, you better be prepared to defend them instead of throwing your feelings out like they hold any merit. You trying to defend the champ train, this whole thread’s topic with the OP crying about content getting hard, that does not push the game forward, content-wise and economically.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

Buying Twilight from TP is not exciting.
Buying skins is not exciting. (my opinion)

I agree with you 100% on this. You proved me wrong on what I said about you and dungeons, guild missions, and world bosses. I’m glad you liked them, with the quote above I believe we want the same thing. Horizontal progression that is rewarded to those who earn them instead of those who have the in-game coin/real world cash to buy them. Such additions would greatly improve the longevity of this game.

P.S – I never kick people out of dungeon/fractal groups for their builds or gear. I’ve carried and been carried in instanced content and try to help competent players in my parties instead of kicking them. The only people I kick are those who do not listen/rage at other party members and do not chill out. I would also refrain from attacking players you do not agree with by calling them names, instead of their arguments. It does not make you look good nor does it help your side of the argument look good. I joked about this on my last reply in italics, thought you’d catch on.

“Is GW2 trying to lose players?”

I really doubt it.

Jovel.5706:

When you’re in a party the damage requirement to get tagged in for item drops reduces significantly.

This has never been confirmed, as far as I’m aware. The wiki doesn’t mention it.

The updates pretty much removed the notable “one spot farms”, like queensdale champ train, since the players who did only this, since playing the game is some sort of difficulty, very likely left the game since it was their “only way to play the game”.

Playing the game includes that players move around the game world, not just run circle in 1 map and repeat same thing over and over for easy gold, while others do move around Tyria and do stuff around Tyria.

Anyone familiar with Griffon farm near Augury Rock in GW1? Made it hard for new players to progress their story, when nearly the only thing players did there, was farm griffons for easy gold.
It was nerfed too, eventually.

they are trying to mimic the WoW grind path, other then that it’s fine…./sarcasm

Anet doesn’t NEED to try and lose players, Players are already leaving in droves because this game has hit a brick wall in terms of direction.

The devs are out of ideas, The content is stale and leaves you with a feeling of Deja-vu.

WvW which was advertised as being “Epic” has left a sour taste in the mouth’s of most die hard WvW’ers and TBH i cannot see this game recovering from the downward slide that it is in.

Sungak Alkandenes.1369:

There are two separate rounds of layoffs being discussed here (both of them centered around their GA office actually). The recent one (related to WoD MMO) was longer-term fallout of the DUST product not working out well as an income stream. Yargesh is probably referencing the first round; that was fallout from the introduction of their cash shop, and the (valid) ‘concern’ that the game was being positioned to become PtW. The short-term result was a massive falloff in active subscriptions.

[The PtW discussion has not come up as much here, which I consider one of GW2’s better decisions/strengths. Some of their decisions related to Gems are certainly annoying at times, but I cannot call any of it PtW (go look at Travian for an extreme example to compare with).]

And to clarify my definition of hardcore, reference the statement in my sig. I’m talking about methods that boil down to ‘social engineering’ – and usually are not in-game (i.e. other private websites like Kugu, EveWho, other metadata scanning etc). Most of it is legal within Eve, and even IRL if done correctly (though it does get overzealous at times). I’ve seen some of these same methods (and their counters) used with the upper tier WvW servers – which is why I’m not at all interested in the Tournaments.

Ah yes, but the way Mr. Yargesh phrased it it would appear as if the players within the Eve community were to blame for these layoffs; whereas the way I recall it was that quite abit of the stirr after ‘Monoclegate’ was due to the phony apology letter that CCP presented..

You’re absolutely correct about P2W and the lack of it in gw2.. but personally I do find some of their decisions regarding the gemshop highly questionable.

I do understand your view on hardcore and while I absolutely do agree, I find that things such as the Eves communitys sheer dedication to “goodfites” in the name of bob is far more hardcore, the game may not have rules, but if the players consider something you do crude or just not within the “spirit of the community” they will judge you harshly and swiftly.. Unless you’re a newcommer, in which case they’ll beat you into a bloody pulp, mop said pulp up and shower you with gifts and tips on how to prevent it from occuring again. I’d like to see more of that in games like GW2.

Some content had ‘key’ design objectives. For example, with the spider, you were supposed to addapt to crowds and heavy yet slow ranged AoEs. Once you learn to avoid the spit and the poison, the fight is very easy, even for melee.

Then someone finds out some faults in the design and the AI. And exploit them to make things easier.

Some of these methods can be quite boring for some people, and a few of them even require specific build philosophies.

The problem with that is that if you don’t do it that way, you may get kicked from parties that specifically exploit that for speed.

But it’s not like you have to join those parties. So that’s fine, right?

That’s their prerrogative. But they must keep something in mind. When one exploits faults in the design, one must be aware that those faults may get eventually fixed.
That is the downside of speedclears. You get too used to few bits of content, and to do them very fast, and when they change, the more you specilize, the harder it may get to adapt. And you will often lose speed.

If you are an skilled player, you probably were doing it the intended way. And faster than using the gimmicks, to boot.
If you are just grinding gold, you may do it slower. Less gold from the fastest grinders means higher value for the gold slower grinders have. So it isn’t all bad.

People get to use to mindlessly repeating single spots. So what we could really use is things lie:

• Making the Dungeon Master achievement a repeatable one with no extra AP. And each time its completed, instead more AP, you get a bag with 2 stacks of a generic token that do not go in the Wallet that you can exchange for specific tokens by talking to the respective vendors.
  Can’t make the same 4 paths as fast as before? Do them all, and then get +500 generic tokens you can exchange for tokens of any of the paths. Use the tokens you don’t want for exotics to mystic forge and salvage, use the extra tokens for the stuff you want.
• And in PvE, bounties for doing different things all over the world. Kind of a mix between Zaishen bounties, Diablo III’s bountiy and PvP’s reward tracks.

In all honesty, I do actually hope GW2 gets hit with a wake up call of falling profits and player counts.

SWTOR got hit by that, had to go F2P but it meant the devs had to improve and innovate, making TOR a much better game than it was at launch.

FF14:ARR was the relaunch of a complete failure of a MMO. It’s the only MMO released in recent years that managed to stay P2P.

ESO was a flop, no doubts about that. However, since then you can see how much effort the developers are putting into expanding and improving the game. Monthly balance patches, what I wouldn’t give for that.

So if I think if GW2 can survive through a turmoil, it’ll come out golden.

This is an interesting thread with a lot of well constructed arguments, and it’s definitely a subject I think about often. Obviously, the answer to this question is highly subjective, and I don’t believe there is a single right answer. I like reading everyone’s opinion on the matter, though, and I hope this discussion goes on.

Xae Isareth.1364:

In all honesty, I do actually hope GW2 gets hit with a wake up call of falling profits and player counts.

SWTOR got hit by that, had to go F2P but it meant the devs had to improve and innovate, making TOR a much better game than it was at launch.

FF14:ARR was the relaunch of a complete failure of a MMO. It’s the only MMO released in recent years that managed to stay P2P.

ESO was a flop, no doubts about that. However, since then you can see how much effort the developers are putting into expanding and improving the game. Monthly balance patches, what I wouldn’t give for that.

So if I think if GW2 can survive through a turmoil, it’ll come out golden.

The eastern players are completely different than western so what I predict is this. I predict, that the new players in the east being completely used to the grind won’t blink an eyelash. I believe they’ll grind out everything they want or pay for. I think that Anet’s profits won’t drop due to this and I believe that because of that move to China at this point in time, they’ll continue on as if nothing’s actually wrong here in the west because they will be making a profit in the east to support both. I.E. I don’t think anything’s going to change. I’m starting to look elsewhere again because of the lack of communication, the sheer ignorance of the population, and the continuous problems this style of game design produces. What’s sad is the people arguing against us are not being honest, they aren’t attacking the issues, they deny they exist, they attack people who post about them, or they marginalize it because so many people are noticing it more and more now.

Jovel.5706:

Also huge snippet, since I thin we’re the only ones reading these

Sorry I made assumptions about you.
Never witnessed a blip of abuse, ever while playing this game one me or others, again maybe it’s cause I’m on Dzagonur. That’s why I’m like “wtf, what abuse”.

Anyway, potaato potato potaato…

i am not to farm, but yesterday i had 49silver….i did the easy lvl55 dungeon about 4times and had 4gold by the end of it……what do u people want? i mean seriously? LMAO

Adry.7512:

i am not to farm, but yesterday i had 49silver….i did the easy lvl55 dungeon about 4times and had 4gold by the end of it……what do u people want? i mean seriously? LMAO

Some people do not like dungeons. Some people Like Playing " any way they want." which was part of the gw2 manifesto.

If for these people to earn a lot more gold means going into dungeons, they are not Playing " anyway they want."

Gw2 seems to have turned it’s back On it’s manifesto.

Nerelith.7360:

Adry.7512:

i am not to farm, but yesterday i had 49silver….i did the easy lvl55 dungeon about 4times and had 4gold by the end of it……what do u people want? i mean seriously? LMAO

Some people do not like dungeons. Some people Like Playing " any way they want." which was part of the gw2 manifesto.

If for these people to earn a lot more gold means going into dungeons, they are not Playing " anyway they want."

Gw2 seems to have turned it’s back On it’s manifesto.

Bait and switch, working as intended.

Nerelith.7360:

Adry.7512:

i am not to farm, but yesterday i had 49silver….i did the easy lvl55 dungeon about 4times and had 4gold by the end of it……what do u people want? i mean seriously? LMAO

Some people do not like dungeons. Some people Like Playing " any way they want." which was part of the gw2 manifesto.

If for these people to earn a lot more gold means going into dungeons, they are not Playing " anyway they want."

Gw2 seems to have turned it’s back On it’s manifesto.

I’m sorry but that’s just ridiculous. Playing the way I want means dressing my character up in LA. Where’s my 10g per hour?

Nerelith.7360:

Adry.7512:

i am not to farm, but yesterday i had 49silver….i did the easy lvl55 dungeon about 4times and had 4gold by the end of it……what do u people want? i mean seriously? LMAO

Some people do not like dungeons. Some people Like Playing " any way they want." which was part of the gw2 manifesto.

If for these people to earn a lot more gold means going into dungeons, they are not Playing " anyway they want."

Gw2 seems to have turned it’s back On it’s manifesto.

Should people earn 10g/hour out of thin air for role playing in Divinity’s Reach?

thaooo.5320:

Nerelith.7360:

Adry.7512:

i am not to farm, but yesterday i had 49silver….i did the easy lvl55 dungeon about 4times and had 4gold by the end of it……what do u people want? i mean seriously? LMAO

Some people do not like dungeons. Some people Like Playing " any way they want." which was part of the gw2 manifesto.

If for these people to earn a lot more gold means going into dungeons, they are not Playing " anyway they want."

Gw2 seems to have turned it’s back On it’s manifesto.

Should people earn 10g/hour out of thin air for role playing in Divinity’s Reach?

There is a difference between standing in a tavern pretending to get drunk, and whatever it is roleplayers do…that causes Nothing other than words being typed..In sometimes very bad archaic english, and playing in the open world… doing events..taking on champions,…. Btw, i was against the champion trains in QD..so that isn’t about the champ train.

If what you do is stand around and type…. because you like roleplaying that is Not " Playing" that is typing. And all the " but this is How i like to Play"…. doesn’t make it Playing.

So saying " this is how i like to play" does Not apply to roleplaying.

Omars new nickname is Kitten-Kat lol
GW2 feels alot like EQ2 now. If it wasnt for the sub, being behind several years, having to buy the new expansion, i’d go back to Eq2.

Nerelith.7360:

thaooo.5320:

Should people earn 10g/hour out of thin air for role playing in Divinity’s Reach?

There is a difference between standing in a tavern pretending to get drunk, and whatever it is roleplayers do…that causes Nothing other than words being typed..In sometimes very bad archaic english, and playing in the open world… doing events..taking on champions,…. Btw, i was against the champion trains in QD..so that isn’t about the champ train.

If what you do is stand around and type…. because you like roleplaying that is Not " Playing" that is typing. And all the " but this is How i like to Play"…. doesn’t make it Playing.

So saying " this is how i like to play" does Not apply to roleplaying.

Sorry I’ll explain my words.

I picked an activity that some people like doing, that is also easy to do in terms of skill required, and is of low challenge, and put a decent price tag on it.

I think this topic was originally about “ANet removing money making”, which was mainly referring to champion trains.

And when you said “some people don’t like dungeons, they should be able to make money playing how they want to”, I thought you were referring to the champ train, which is super easy, requires no skill, is not challenging, etc, but made a heap of money.

So I came up with an extreme example of “playing how I want” to get good money.

But back on the topic of this thread:
The rewards structure in any MMO should be based off difficulty. The more difficult something is to do, the better it should reward players. Simple things should not be the most rewarding.

Finding Sanity.1283:

If it wasnt for the sub

EQ2 is free-to-play now, bro. Has been for a while, along with EQ1.

Xae Isareth.1364:

In all honesty, I do actually hope GW2 gets hit with a wake up call of falling profits and player counts.

http://oi59.tinypic.com/r6zkgn.jpg

I left the game as well, completely uninstalled it.
Why? Because there was nothing for me to do that I found enjoyable any longer.

Before you start with the anti train nonsense, no, I do NOT mean the trains. I did do the trains once in awhile, but not for the loot. I did them as an easy way to get the dailies out of the way, and for the fun of it. Yup, you heard that right, FUN. Playing and chatting with your fellow players is fun and that is the reason I play multiplayer games.

When I would log on, I would check the dailies required and gear my play time to getting them done as well as doing world events. World events where fun and if I could get dailies done that way, great!

After the megaservers and the time changes, I was rarely able to do any world events at all. The world bosses became nothing more then huge zergs with so much going on the screen, it was impossible to even see the boss. Then there where the “bosses” that died in seconds, LOL!

Farming? I gathered pretty much everything I saw and salvaged anything that would give me magic find. I had a very nice collection of rares sitting in inventory, massive amounts of almost all materials, and gold, I needed nothing.

I had full ascended armor, weapons and trinkets. The only thing I did not have was a legendary, but there was not a single one I would want to use, so that was not a goal.

So what was there for me to do?

Skins? I have been using the same armor and weapon skins since launch, I like the way I look.

Wvw/Pvp? No. Been there, done that and not willing to deal with the toxic community.

Dungeons? Again, been there, done that.

World events? See above.

Living story? Yes, there was that. Unfortunately much of it was so incredibly bug ridden it was not enjoyable to play and what was enjoyable, was removed too quickly.

Titles? Yeah! I like titles! I spent YEARS getting titles in GW1. Sounds good, until you realize just how incredibly BORING killing 1000 of any single creature is or clicking on something 10s of thousands of times until your fingers bleed.

I loved the GW franchise. I have multiple copies of all GW1 chapters and collectors editions of all and the collectors edition of GW2. GW2 is not Guild Wars. It’s fast becoming a poor WoW clone with better graphics. I watch. I hope. But I seriously doubt there will ever be anything to make me want to reinstall it again.

^ I was kind of enjoying your post until the last part about GW2 being a WoW clone. I’m not even going to say anything other than: have you actually played WoW before?

honestly i think they should just change gw2 into a third person shooter and give us all guns so that there is no unfair advtage between range and melee. Personally I train all the time even after the patch and I find the melee and range barrior disruptive

thaooo.5320:

Nerelith.7360:

thaooo.5320:

Should people earn 10g/hour out of thin air for role playing in Divinity’s Reach?

There is a difference between standing in a tavern pretending to get drunk, and whatever it is roleplayers do…that causes Nothing other than words being typed..In sometimes very bad archaic english, and playing in the open world… doing events..taking on champions,…. Btw, i was against the champion trains in QD..so that isn’t about the champ train.

If what you do is stand around and type…. because you like roleplaying that is Not " Playing" that is typing. And all the " but this is How i like to Play"…. doesn’t make it Playing.

So saying " this is how i like to play" does Not apply to roleplaying.

Sorry I’ll explain my words.

I picked an activity that some people like doing, that is also easy to do in terms of skill required, and is of low challenge, and put a decent price tag on it.

I think this topic was originally about “ANet removing money making”, which was mainly referring to champion trains.

And when you said “some people don’t like dungeons, they should be able to make money playing how they want to”, I thought you were referring to the champ train, which is super easy, requires no skill, is not challenging, etc, but made a heap of money.

So I came up with an extreme example of “playing how I want” to get good money.

But back on the topic of this thread:
The rewards structure in any MMO should be based off difficulty. The more difficult something is to do, the better it should reward players. Simple things should not be the most rewarding.

I never liked the Champion Train. It rewards players disproportionately to effort , skill or time Invested.

I was talking more about finding an area with a large spawn.. managing agro… pulling judiciously… running the risk of an over-pull, or pulling when wandering patrols just happened to walk up to you… How to avoid or deal with the accompanying snafu….

This deserves to have some consistent, repeatable gold accrue. This isn’t …..w..w…w…dodge…1,1,1,1,1. On the Champion train yes, we agree.

But as I said…. Why do I have to go into a dungeon for reliable gold acquisition? Isn’t that Anet making me play the game their way??

Whatever happened to their manifesto? The reason I Bought the game before Open beta?

Nerelith.7360:

thaooo.5320:

Nerelith.7360:

thaooo.5320:

Should people earn 10g/hour out of thin air for role playing in Divinity’s Reach?

There is a difference between standing in a tavern pretending to get drunk, and whatever it is roleplayers do…that causes Nothing other than words being typed..In sometimes very bad archaic english, and playing in the open world… doing events..taking on champions,…. Btw, i was against the champion trains in QD..so that isn’t about the champ train.

If what you do is stand around and type…. because you like roleplaying that is Not " Playing" that is typing. And all the " but this is How i like to Play"…. doesn’t make it Playing.

So saying " this is how i like to play" does Not apply to roleplaying.

Sorry I’ll explain my words.

I picked an activity that some people like doing, that is also easy to do in terms of skill required, and is of low challenge, and put a decent price tag on it.

I think this topic was originally about “ANet removing money making”, which was mainly referring to champion trains.

And when you said “some people don’t like dungeons, they should be able to make money playing how they want to”, I thought you were referring to the champ train, which is super easy, requires no skill, is not challenging, etc, but made a heap of money.

So I came up with an extreme example of “playing how I want” to get good money.

But back on the topic of this thread:
The rewards structure in any MMO should be based off difficulty. The more difficult something is to do, the better it should reward players. Simple things should not be the most rewarding.

I never liked the Champion Train. It rewards players disproportionately to effort , skill or time Invested.

I was talking more about finding an area with a large spawn.. managing agro… pulling judiciously… running the risk of an over-pull, or pulling when wandering patrols just happened to walk up to you… How to avoid or deal with the accompanying snafu….

This deserves to have some consistent, repeatable gold accrue. This isn’t …..w..w…w…dodge…1,1,1,1,1. On the Champion train yes, we agree.

But as I said…. Why do I have to go into a dungeon for reliable gold acquisition? Isn’t that Anet making me play the game their way??

Whatever happened to their manifesto? The reason I Bought the game before Open beta?

Manifesto = EPIC bait and switch!

Xae Isareth.1364:

^ I was kind of enjoying your post until the last part about GW2 being a WoW clone. I’m not even going to say anything other than: have you actually played WoW before?

You are right. I am playing it now. Gw2 isn’t as good. Jus’ sayin.

Making things harder is not better when dungeons and bosses are always the same, doing the same thing, add some randomness Anet!!!

My opinion is… Anet is afraid to give players any skill that matters that is not damage based. They don’t like Conditions, or Classes that are based on them.

On Guild Wars Necromancer was FUN to play.

They also seem to hate pet management classes. Look at Ranger, and Minionmancer.

They hate the idea that players can go out in the open world and gold farm, if you want to acquire Gold….go in a dungeon.

One gets the impression they really wanted to make a 3rd person shooting dungeon delver, and NCSoft said " Guild wars fan want a Guild wars 2."

So Anet said.." How about we make it anyway..Ok, change a few names, Give it a tyrian skin… and call it Guild wars 2?" " But Third person shooting dungeon delvers don’t have necromancers. " " Then we give them Necromancers, and make sure they aren’t as effective." " Sounds good. "

It really does feel to me that tyria is Just a skin they slapped Onto the game they REALLY wanted to make…but NCSoft said." make it look Like Guild Wars."

chronus.1326:

Finding Sanity.1283:

If it wasnt for the sub

EQ2 is free-to-play now, bro. Has been for a while, along with EQ1.

Xae Isareth.1364:

In all honesty, I do actually hope GW2 gets hit with a wake up call of falling profits and player counts.

http://oi59.tinypic.com/r6zkgn.jpg

I know that eq2x came out but it reminded me of wows supposed f2p. I played for a few days and didnt feel it was worth investing time into a new character. Aparently they rolled that into the full live servers now. But “Players who subscribed to EverQuest II prior to the Free-to-play transition and have continued to keep their subscription active have transitioned to All Access members.” Unfortunately I wasnt a sub at that time. So i’d be kitten. Might be fun to log in and mess around though.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

I left the game as well, completely uninstalled it.
Why? Because there was nothing for me to do that I found enjoyable any longer.

Before you start with the anti train nonsense, no, I do NOT mean the trains. I did do the trains once in awhile, but not for the loot. I did them as an easy way to get the dailies out of the way, and for the fun of it. Yup, you heard that right, FUN. Playing and chatting with your fellow players is fun and that is the reason I play multiplayer games.

When I would log on, I would check the dailies required and gear my play time to getting them done as well as doing world events. World events where fun and if I could get dailies done that way, great!

After the megaservers and the time changes, I was rarely able to do any world events at all. The world bosses became nothing more then huge zergs with so much going on the screen, it was impossible to even see the boss. Then there where the “bosses” that died in seconds, LOL!

Farming? I gathered pretty much everything I saw and salvaged anything that would give me magic find. I had a very nice collection of rares sitting in inventory, massive amounts of almost all materials, and gold, I needed nothing.

I had full ascended armor, weapons and trinkets. The only thing I did not have was a legendary, but there was not a single one I would want to use, so that was not a goal.

So what was there for me to do?

Skins? I have been using the same armor and weapon skins since launch, I like the way I look.

Wvw/Pvp? No. Been there, done that and not willing to deal with the toxic community.

Dungeons? Again, been there, done that.

World events? See above.

Living story? Yes, there was that. Unfortunately much of it was so incredibly bug ridden it was not enjoyable to play and what was enjoyable, was removed too quickly.

Titles? Yeah! I like titles! I spent YEARS getting titles in GW1. Sounds good, until you realize just how incredibly BORING killing 1000 of any single creature is or clicking on something 10s of thousands of times until your fingers bleed.

I loved the GW franchise. I have multiple copies of all GW1 chapters and collectors editions of all and the collectors edition of GW2. GW2 is not Guild Wars. It’s fast becoming a poor WoW clone with better graphics. I watch. I hope. But I seriously doubt there will ever be anything to make me want to reinstall it again.

I miss you Shining Squirrel (fellow former guildie of yours) I can understand why you left, but don’t understand why I’m still here LOL. I guess I just keep holding out hope for something new as in content. ::sigh::
Still I do miss you and wish you well – Beetey

This is an interesting thread with a lot of well constructed arguments, and it’s definitely a subject I think about often. Obviously, the answer to this question is highly subjective, and I don’t believe there is a single right answer. I like reading everyone’s opinion on the matter, though, and I hope this discussion goes on.

darkace.8925:

…he’s complaining that earning gold – and by extension, the ability to purchase items – has been made more difficult.

…changes have been made to make it harder to earn gold…

I just don’t believe people when they say things like this. I’ve never had more gold in this game. It’s never been easier to me to get gold. Have you actually tried running dungeons recently? You used to get next to nothing, now they shower you in rewards. You can get 10-20 gold a day running a few of the easy paths.

Xenon.4537:

darkace.8925:

…he’s complaining that earning gold – and by extension, the ability to purchase items – has been made more difficult.

…changes have been made to make it harder to earn gold…

I just don’t believe people when they say things like this. I’ve never had more gold in this game. It’s never been easier to me to get gold. Have you actually tried running dungeons recently? You used to get next to nothing, now they shower you in rewards. You can get 10-20 gold a day running a few of the easy paths.

While I agree that money is much easier to come by these days, I would urge you not to imply someone can make 10-20g/day running “a few of the easy paths”.

To make 10g/day running dungeons you would need to run 7 dungeons or so. For 20g/day, well obviously we’re talking more than that. A few of the easy paths will net you an easy 5g/day.

I agree with most of your point but I feel that part misrepresented the reality.

So, for those of you who want some easy money. Here’s what you can do to get a regular income for relatively little work, although some initial investment is required.

Get 500 armor smith (initial investment—you will make back this money), craft bolts of damask, sell bolts of damask. You can only do 1/day because of the daily cap, but even when you buy all the mats on the TP, you are netting almost 4g per transaction. Do that in conjunction with a few dungeon runs a day (AC, CoF, HoTW easy paths) and a few world bosses (pretty much every rare that drops sells for ~35s, most bosses drop 2 guaranteed and are super easy to kill).

You will be making 10g+/day profit easy playing ~1-2hrs total (depending on the efficiency of your dungeon group). You can skip the dungeon part and just do craft and focus on world bosses only and get the same results, you may just have to play a little longer is all.

I don’t think a lot of people realize how well Rare gear sells. You should pretty much TP all rare items you get versus trying for the random ecto. The way I look at it, selling the rares is guaranteed 35s, versus salvaging and hoping for the chance at an ecto worth what: 37-40s? If you are trying to gather ectos, then just think of each Rare as an ecto, sell the rare and buy an ecto for like 3s out of pocket.

They really did make money super easy to get, even after the train is gone.

chronus.1326:

Finding Sanity.1283:

If it wasnt for the sub

EQ2 is free-to-play now, bro. Has been for a while, along with EQ1.

Only that it has the worst F2P system ever, and you directly have to pay if you don’t want to play with naked characters.

Draknar.5748:

Get 500 armor smith (initial investment—you will make back this money), craft bolts of damask, sell bolts of damask. You can only do 1/day because of the daily cap, but even when you buy all the mats on the TP, you are netting almost 4g per transaction.

Actually its 1g17s .. and it seldem was much higher if you don’t use buy-orders.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/46741

@Draknar

I typically run AC (1, 2, 3), CoF (1, 2), and CoE (1, 2, 3) and come out with at least 15g. That includes the end rewards and the money from selling the loot. Ideally this circuit should take maybe 1.5 hours. If you get a real dungeon running group, you can do that in less than an hour and move on to SE, HotW, TA, and even Arah to end up with twice as much money in less than 3 hours.

And I daresay dungeons aren’t the only way to make money. Guild missions, world bosses, WvW, and even PvP are much more rewarding now than they were in the past.

Beldin.5498:

chronus.1326:

EQ2 is free-to-play now, bro. Has been for a while, along with EQ1.

Only that it has the worst F2P system ever, and you directly have to pay if you don’t want to play with naked characters.

Some people like naked characters, someone should inform the guys in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-would-really-like-some-sexy-gear-skins/first

They’d uninstall GW2 in a second.

Xenon.4537:

And I daresay dungeons aren’t the only way to make money. Guild missions, world bosses, WvW, and even PvP are much more rewarding now than they were in the past.

WvW isn’t a good way to make money, EotM champ train is, but that’s a PvE map.

thaooo.5320:

WvW isn’t a good way to make money, EotM champ train is, but that’s a PvE map.

No, it’s PvP. If the enemy players wouldn’t cap outposts etc. we couldn’t kill the champs. Also, you have to kill the Zergs from time to time which is – in my opinion – pretty fun.

thaooo.5320:

Beldin.5498:

chronus.1326:

EQ2 is free-to-play now, bro. Has been for a while, along with EQ1.

Only that it has the worst F2P system ever, and you directly have to pay if you don’t want to play with naked characters.

Some people like naked characters, someone should inform the guys in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-would-really-like-some-sexy-gear-skins/first

They’d uninstall GW2 in a second.

What i meant with “naked” was, that you can’t wear legendary/fabled armor in EQ2 F2P until you pay to unlock each piece.

Thats like if you can’t wear your exotics or ascended stuff here and have to spent $$ for each single item to wear it first.

Xenon.4537:

@Draknar

I typically run AC (1, 2, 3), CoF (1, 2), and CoE (1, 2, 3) and come out with at least 15g. That includes the end rewards and the money from selling the loot. Ideally this circuit should take maybe 1.5 hours. If you get a real dungeon running group, you can do that in less than an hour and move on to SE, HotW, TA, and even Arah to end up with twice as much money in less than 3 hours.

And I daresay dungeons aren’t the only way to make money. Guild missions, world bosses, WvW, and even PvP are much more rewarding now than they were in the past.

I question the length of time it takes you…
COF 1 and 2 alone might run 35 minutes combined…
AC 1,2,3 an hour combined if youre fantastically good.
COE 1,2,3 about 1.5 hours.

Unless you have some god group that knows all the tricks and ins and outs, which do not apply to most pugs…you cant run all of those paths in 1.5 hours or less. More like 3 or 4.

cesmode.4257:

Xenon.4537:

@Draknar

I typically run AC (1, 2, 3), CoF (1, 2), and CoE (1, 2, 3) and come out with at least 15g. That includes the end rewards and the money from selling the loot. Ideally this circuit should take maybe 1.5 hours. If you get a real dungeon running group, you can do that in less than an hour and move on to SE, HotW, TA, and even Arah to end up with twice as much money in less than 3 hours.

And I daresay dungeons aren’t the only way to make money. Guild missions, world bosses, WvW, and even PvP are much more rewarding now than they were in the past.

I question the length of time it takes you…
COF 1 and 2 alone might run 35 minutes combined…
AC 1,2,3 an hour combined if youre fantastically good.
COE 1,2,3 about 1.5 hours.

Unless you have some god group that knows all the tricks and ins and outs, which do not apply to most pugs…you cant run all of those paths in 1.5 hours or less. More like 3 or 4.

3-4 hours? Maybe if they just installed the game for the first time.

I’ve never been in a full CoE clear that went over an hour with pugs, even in the ultra bad pug groups.

Beldin.5498:

chronus.1326:

Finding Sanity.1283:

If it wasnt for the sub

EQ2 is free-to-play now, bro. Has been for a while, along with EQ1.

Only that it has the worst F2P system ever, and you directly have to pay if you don’t want to play with naked characters.

Draknar.5748:

Get 500 armor smith (initial investment—you will make back this money), craft bolts of damask, sell bolts of damask. You can only do 1/day because of the daily cap, but even when you buy all the mats on the TP, you are netting almost 4g per transaction.

Actually its 1g17s .. and it seldem was much higher if you don’t use buy-orders.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/46741

If you aren’t using buy orders you are doing yourself a disservice. You can easily save 3g from buy orders, especially on the silk scraps and linen/wool/cotton. Match highest buy order. For silk scrap you should NEVER pay over 2s/piece. If you match highest your buy order will be filled within 5min. The other scraps take longer with buy orders because less supply, but we’re still talking within a couple of hours. I typically put buy orders in before I go to bed, then when I get home from work before the daily reset, I collect all of my items, do my craft, and sell my items.

I’ve done the calculation on the costs. I even included ecto cost even though I have 500+ in bank and so I don’t actually need to have that come out of pocket. Profit is like 3g96s on average for me buying everything with buy orders—(and technically +37s, so 4g33s, because I don’t buy ectos, but that’s specific to me).

Also worth noting. Prices for damask can vary on the market. Some days you can get 14g25s for them, others 15g+. Never just match lowest seller. Always assume the market will fluctuate and eventually yours will come up for sale. Happens 100% of the time. If the lowest seller is 14g25s, I put it up for 14g75s. Won’t sell immediately, but typically in 1-2 days its gone. Anything over 14g75s I match lowest seller. It’s stupid to lose 50s because you want it sold sooner rather than later. You don’t make any interest on your gold so let it sit longer, it will mean more money in the long run.

EDIT: took a look at my spreadsheet after work: 3g17s is my profit based on average buy order prices (and this figure assumes I paid for ectos on TP, which I don’t have to, so my actual profit is closer to 3g50s—). Basically always use buy-orders.

I care that players are leaving the game and I try not to leave too. The game was well made with good blueprint to success. They blew it and are trying to recover. I think it was after summer 2013 it nose dived and is heading for a collision.
I really enjoyed the game before that and the game itself is really good. It’s spoilt by brats who just trample over all content for shinies. That champ train and EotM/WvW karma train is the most boring kitten I ever done in a game.
Pavilion is better cos it needs us to work together but again it takes massive resources to try pull it off. If there is no tag at a boss no one will even try. Then there’s the one’s who spoil it on purpose to stop you doing it. Really? What is this crap?
Ok a few times I been there and like minded players have got together and done it perfect without tags but that been rare and can be hard.

I go to FG Sound and tag up so my guildies can find me for complete guild mission. I at the bottom of the map in the caves. Why do I need abuse from PvE cos of that. I get abuse cos these players got no brain? What, there a tag away from your train and what? I spoilt your train? It can’t function no more? Really?

iirc before spring 2013 I never saw a tag outside LA or WvW on my server. We always got things done. It was never an issue. We co operated, got it done, worked out the mechanic, talked to each other and helped each other. Rarely see that now. Worse thing ever having commander tags in PvE. It should be viewable to your guild only. That will make us all have to work together.

My hunch is that the game is going to improve over the rest of 2014 and in 2015 it will come alive again. At least for PvE anyway. I reckon we are getting a treat before the year is out. I think they are going to excite us again but wheather it stays toxic, well that’s up to us, the players.

More than 6 months ago, people were also claiming gw2 is gonna loose people because of this and that. At that point, I had to quit not because of the game, but work, real life stuff. Recently I tried playing. And from the numbers I see in dungeons or wvw, it seems it hasn’t gone down much tbh. These “gw2 is gonna loose players if they don’t do A, or B, or C” serve as a poor attempt for suggesting what could be better done for the game. It’s more of a whine really, when their suggestions aren’t done/haven’t happened.

It’s “lose.”

Sorry if it’s been said, I just don’t know how much longer I can see the title of this thread before I go insane.