Guild Wars 2

Something I have noticed that I find a bit odd.

If I or most people I know see someone in game call another by a racist name we report it and Anet responds with a ban.

and this is the way it should be.

But GW2 is FULL of racism and nobody is bothered by it infact most people laugh at it.
examples.

Take the Asurans for example

“Bookah” is a large, loud, bellowing, and dumb imaginary creature that the Asura used to frighten their children. Since their surfacing, they use the term to refer to those they view as inferior beings, which to them is almost everyone who is not an Asura.

This is a derogatory term that they assign to the races they deem beneath them.

also several people in the game seem to have adopted and accepted calling Sylvari “Salad Heads”

Even members of the lionguard in this latest living story use it.

“You think salad boy can make good on his threat?”

The char and norn both have been known to make other racist comments against humans and other races

I Still have difficulty on how to react to this. On one hand I tend to wish to say its a game and its their culture. but on the other it was created by humans and is thereby an extension of ours. If I was “magically” transported to Tyria I would no sooner call a sylvari a Salad head than I would call a ….. and this is my point I even refuse to pick a race and term to use in an example here. but yet I fear the day when I watch my own toon call someone a name in some cut scene.

They aren’t even races they’re different species. Of course that doesn’t excuse derogatory language but as long as Anet is careful to make sure our characters don’t use it then ignore it and move on. Not much you can do.

You forgot to mention the most racist person in game….. Mad King Thorn

So, an Asura calling a human “bookah” or a Sylvari being called “salad boy” is racist?

What’s next? Complains about killing pretty much everything in-game? Should I call the cops whenever someone jump into a centaurs camp and kill everyone inside?

Or what about complaining about certain attires? Should we start a protest because the skirt of some females is too short?

But wait, we have alcohol in-game too! Oh god Anet, what the kitten is wrong with you?

Somebody please think of the children!

Report all the NPCs making racists remarks so that ANet can ban them from the game. It might make the world a trifle empty once it’s emptied out of all it’s racists NPCs, but my goodness, think how happy all Salad Heads, Bookahs, and Meats will be.

Best thread i’ve read in a while

zenleto.6179:

They aren’t even races they’re different species.

actually it does say races on the creation screen.

http://clip2net.com/clip/m68899/1370154044-clip-52kb.jpg

cesmode.4257:

You are insanely over reacting. This is a video game. There are no real asurans, sylvari, etc. If they make a “bad salad” joke, it is a video game making fun of racism itself. Noone is saying anything about any real race, creed, or color that is in the real world.

Step back, and see this is a video game.

I do believe that in my first post I did in fact say that on one hand there is the thought that it is simply a game and it should not be taken seriously. As far as it being an attempt to “make fun of racism” I don’t buy that. You do not mock something by mimicking it exactly. When you reproduce something exactly it is nothing more than another version of the same thing.

daimasei.4091:

So, an Asura calling a human “bookah” or a Sylvari being called “salad boy” is racist?

Yes that is what I said.

What’s next? Complains about killing pretty much everything in-game? Should I call the cops whenever someone jump into a centaurs camp and kill everyone inside?

If you notice there ARE limits on what you can kill. that camp of centaurs is going to attack you if you get close to it and therefor you can kill them. BUT you cannot for no reason simply walk into a city and start killing non agressive NPCs.

Or what about complaining about certain attires? Should we start a protest because the skirt of some females is too short?

Sure why not. In fact lots of people do all over the place about lots of games…. but in this case it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic I mentioned so there was no reason whatsoever to bring it up…. Lets keep it that way.

But wait, we have alcohol in-game too! Oh god Anet, what the kitten is wrong with you?

Whats wrong with alcohol? I don’t see it being passed out to underage minors or anything suggesting that it should be

I do know this is a game I do know the toons in it have their own fictitious culture. I also know that in this fictional world racism not only exists. but is quite rampant. and nobody in their world seems to care, not even the members of their world controlled by those of us from our REAL world.

Look at it this way if in game I tell someone I think they are a stupid N-word I will most likely see a ban and have lots of people mad at me but I can mean exactly the same thing and instead call them a stupid bookah and everyone laughs even tho everyone in game KNOWS it is a derogatory term to mean that I feel I am talking to someone obviously inferior to myself and want them to know it. But its a game so we don’t care.

We don’t tend to like comments about the way a person looks. We know that calling someone thin “Stick boy” or fat “fat boy” is rude and can be hurtful. but we laugh when “salad boy” is used for the same exact purpose and effect.

I know its a game and we shouldn’t be bothered by it … but are we sure we shouldn’t?

This thread makes me so sad. Kitten people

Darkorical.9213:

zenleto.6179:

They aren’t even races they’re different species.

actually it does say races on the creation screen.

Yeah, no joke.

The children, for God’s sake, please think of all the children…

“I know its a game and we shouldn’t be bothered by it … but are we sure we shouldn’t?”
See, you know what the problem is I think? It’s that foul language is foul language. Look, I’m not saying I’m above anything. I totally get offended when someone is a jerk to me, but I think that is the issue. Why do people get so offended over words? They literally have no power other than what we give them…. A word cannot hurt you unless you let it. So, stop making a big deal out of nothing and that would cure all racism.

Regardless, I think the fact that there is racism in the game makes it more immersive. It’s like a real world, and it adds to the lore.
If you think it’s a big deal and that someone needs to say something, start a guild based around it. You can stand in the city and protest for the rights of the “salad heads” or something.

Some day we will all be playing with stick men on nothing but a white screen

... and people will still complain about the color of the stick men.

Maybe if other races weren’t so dumb, we wouldn’t have to be so racist.

…sigh… Bookahs.

You should read some of the “salad” jokes on reddit. I think that’s the only reason it ever made its way into the game. It’s for comedy purposes, nothing more.

Bookah is the only arguably racist word, but even our characters in GW1 took it in stride when we were called that by Vekk (and other asurans? memory isn’t too good…).

Since this is a game, I’d have to say it’s only offensive if you let it be. In the real world, things are much more complicated.

I am sticking with this is a game and if yer that soft that a few made up racist remarks hurt yer feelings then maybe playing a game with a rating that specifically says Teens and up then maybe find a game that is for everyone. Racism is a everyday thing yes I hate it too but it can no more be changed in the real world as it will be changed in the game. I find it quite funny when I hear it. If a game with it in it stirs you then I suppose you never watch moves either with a little racism in it? And for a game to say some racism remarks is RP its in the game for someone to be all out cruel to a person outside the game its just rude I don’t report people I just block them and let them talk to themselves cause ummmm I can take a shot or two and not whine like a little girl lol.

Wizards and Pirates 101 might be looking for some players!

eisberg.2379:

You know a game is getting better when people have to resort to complain about “nothing” =D

Bingo! I look at this thread as a good thing =D

Silly Bookahs we dont call you that to be racist; we call you that because you are large, dumb, and smell funny.
This is why I’m in an all Asura guild with an alt guild named Fragrant Bookahs. Imagine if the gods left you a bunch of man-apes, kittens, vegetables, and half-ogres for you to save. You might want to call them a funny name or two also.
Don’t compare it to Real World racial issues. Its more like Real World pet issues. I mean you wouldn’t get angry at someone yelling “Stupid Animal” at his dog or cat would you?

Sentient beings have free will, and part of free will is the ability to like or dislike something or someone for any reason or lack of reason.

If John Doe over here doesnt like someone based solely on the ethnicity of that person, thats ok, He is allowed to.
The day when we can no longer have a personal opinion about others is the day we lose our free will.

OP please get a life

Racism and fantasy games go hand in hand, but I think this is actually a weird good thing, since we as players generally find it silly in the long run. Charr and Humans hate eachother, Dunmer and Nords hate eachother, Dwarves and Elves hate eachother, etc, but we as real people see how silly it is. If these worlds were reality, yeah, would be messed up, and Id be fighting agaisnt the bigotry there as I do here, but its a game, and most normal gamers can differentiate games from reality, despite what the media says.

Not sure if troll…

Sounds like you need to relax a little OP. Sticks and Stones and all that, names never hurt anybody.

At one level this allows the player to see that there is “friction” between the races, an uneasy alliance against a greater foe without getting bogged down in a cutscene narrative. Same can be said with the various “rebel” factions within each race with their comments.

I’m sure slashing, stabbing, burning and shooting innocent creatures and sentient beings just to get their loots is a far worse offense than name calling. Yet you don’t seem shocked by these

It’s because Racism is funny when used the correct way.

IE; stand up comedy, the boondocks, and so on.

The word racism itself has been given a negative connotation. People feel the need to be too politically correct/sensitive these days. If I made a joke about a minority and my best friend was the same ethnicity am I really a bigot and bad person? No, I just have a generally different sense of humor.

I like how each race has names for others they find inferior, or different. It adds more flavor to them and gives their culture more of an identity. Because as much as we want to believe it, Tyria and Irl isn’t a magical paradise where we all get to ride fluttershy soaring over rainbow sprinkled ice cream cones singing whatever the latest pop craze is.

I’d like to sing call me maybe btw. Just sayin’.

Can you explain, in three sentences or less, the reasons that certain real world people go to war? No, you can’t (and if you think you can then you’re a fool), but in fantasy games you can. Racism is shorthand for other things. Rather than explaining every little detail that has gone into one group being suspicious of another, it’s simpler just to use racism.

As much as many people don’t want to hear it, “racism” is a natural thing, and is especially prevalent when conflict is involved. Just ask any veteran of Vietnam or WWII: they didn’t spend decades of their lives loathing the Vietnamese and Japanese because of cartoons of bucktoothed apes waving a rising sun flag, they hated them because they were brutally slaughtering each other. Look at how many people perceive Muslims in the West. The actions of the some (whether few or many) are attributed to the entirety of an ethnic group.

As an aside, I’ve spent the last couple of days playing a fantastic indie game (with an awful title) called Expeditions Conquistador. It’s an RPG that starts in 1518 and you are leading a group of Conquistadors to conquer the New World. You can follow Cortes’ path and brutally conquer with the aid of allies, you can choose to go it alone and slaughter everyone in your path or you can make your way peacefully through Mexico. Among the character traits that some of your people may have is Racist. Racist characters consider the natives as inferiors to be slaughtered and being nice to the Aztecs displeases them a lot. There’s also a skill called Sexist, and not only can you choose to have slaves (and treat them as kindly or harshly as you wish), you also participate in a rebellion on Hispaniola which is partly (allegedly) about freeing the slaves. It’s quite a dark game, and very well written, but if people were afraid of racism, sexism and slavery, you know, historical accuracy, things like this would never get made.

Fear of racism is just as bad as racism itself.

Darkorical.9213:

snip.

I hear what you’re saying and I fully expected these kinds of responses. I mean seriously, look where we are.

I bet in the world of NPC Tyria, thick skinned-ness is a common trait.

LOL…thanks for the laugh

I don’t even know how to respond to such a statement. Guess I better have all those evil bigoted npc’s take sensitivity classes as to not offend anyone in any way.

I know when I’m on my human and get called bookah, I just… oh wait it’s a game so I don’t care. Even if I was in Tyria in real life I wouldn’t get so worked up over it.

There is a world of difference between the reality that most cultures in the world are rooted in racism against their minority-empowered (disempowered) populations, and the actual expression of this racism by an empowered privileged person against a minority / unempowered person.

There is a further world of difference between ackowledging these things in fiction by making fictional races that have bias against each other – and putting real world racist norms into a game.

If for example… this game were to make people who chose avatars of certain skin shades have a max level lower than others, or weaker stats, or not allowed to join guilds… that would be real world racism. But if you made a game set in say… the 1800s, and it showed the genocide against First Nation Native Americans – that would not be racist, but historical. ON THE OTHER HAND, if it had you committing those atrocities; it would be racist. OR, if it presented some reality that ignored those atrocities, that would be racist (holocaust denial).

Having an Asura be biased against a human is not an expression of racism. Making humans have say… a lower ‘Intelligence Score’ would be ‘racialism’ (upholding the false idea that racism is based on factual differences, by promoting it in fiction).

Far be it from racist, the game often shows that it is the biases that the different races have had against each other that have let the dragons and other forces wreck such havoc in the world. It is the biases the races have against each other that have kept them all down – humans and charr for example, have both been lessoned by fighting each other for so long.

This is expressing how racist norms weaken us. And overcoming them, moving into unity, makes us stronger.

Kichwas.7152:

If for example… this game were to make people who chose avatars of certain skin shades have a max level lower than others, or weaker stats, or not allowed to join guilds… that would be real world racism.

By that definition, playing Dungeons & Dragons, which has all of the things you listed and more, is real world racism.

I am going to make it my mission to now go around in game and let me character be racist to plants and humans by calling them salad bowls and meat and bookah and I can’t get banned because its only game racism.

ShinraGuardian.8053:

I am going to make it my mission to now go around in game and let me character be racist to plants and humans by calling them salad bowls and meat and bookah and I can’t get banned because its only game racism.

Pretty sure 0 people would be offended :P I tend to call norns/charrs fatties personally.

Darkorical.9213:

Something I have noticed that I find a bit odd.

If I or most people I know see someone in game call another by a racist name we report it and Anet responds with a ban.

and this is the way it should be.

But GW2 is FULL of racism and nobody is bothered by it infact most people laugh at it.
examples.

Take the Asurans for example

“Bookah” is a large, loud, bellowing, and dumb imaginary creature that the Asura used to frighten their children. Since their surfacing, they use the term to refer to those they view as inferior beings, which to them is almost everyone who is not an Asura.

This is a derogatory term that they assign to the races they deem beneath them.

also several people in the game seem to have adopted and accepted calling Sylvari “Salad Heads”

Even members of the lionguard in this latest living story use it.

“You think salad boy can make good on his threat?”

The char and norn both have been known to make other racist comments against humans and other races

I Still have difficulty on how to react to this. On one hand I tend to wish to say its a game and its their culture. but on the other it was created by humans and is thereby an extension of ours. If I was “magically” transported to Tyria I would no sooner call a sylvari a Salad head than I would call a ….. and this is my point I even refuse to pick a race and term to use in an example here. but yet I fear the day when I watch my own toon call someone a name in some cut scene.

Well, do you think if it was absent in Tyria the world would be believable? We all know it’s not a happy happy joy joy world and all races do not get along.. So do you think they are going to withhold their racism? No… they aren’t.. Well some will, the ones with more compassion for others will not participate in it.. When you have a world that is full of different races and are force to interact with each other there will be some form of racism. You can not expect racism not be there. Not everyone in a given race will accept all other races. There will be conflicts. Even though it is wrong, it is just something that happens.

ShinraGuardian.8053:

I am going to make it my mission to now go around in game and let me character be racist to plants and humans by calling them salad bowls and meat and bookah and I can’t get banned because its only game racism.

You wont be banned. Mainly because nobody would care, why should they?

Darkorical.9213:

zenleto.6179:

They aren’t even races they’re different species.

actually it does say races on the creation screen.

http://clip2net.com/clip/m68899/1370154044-clip-52kb.jpg

Wow, I seriously think we should petition the devs to change that then.

It’s obviously wrong.

While I can see what the OP is saying, I’m not sure it’s something to really be concerned about. It’s when those words turn into actions against players, however, that I have a problem. For example, there was definite “racism”, or discrimination, against Norns and Charrs during the Mad King Tower Jumping Puzzle… But that was the fault of players, not ANet.

lol I’m going to link this to my guild to read. brill just brill.

ShinraGuardian.8053:

I am going to make it my mission to now go around in game and let me character be racist to plants and humans by calling them salad bowls and meat and bookah and I can’t get banned because its only game racism.

Oh noooooes. My Sylvari Mesmer will be sobbing in the corner if she was insulted in such a vile manner. How dare you talk to her like that you…. you…..BOOKAH.

:DDDDDDDDD

wait srs?

Astral Projections.7320:

ShinraGuardian.8053:

I am going to make it my mission to now go around in game and let me character be racist to plants and humans by calling them salad bowls and meat and bookah and I can’t get banned because its only game racism.

Oh noooooes. My Sylvari Mesmer will be sobbing in the corner if she was insulted in such a vile manner. How dare you talk to her like that you…. you…..BOOKAH.

Please don’t use that offensive word. I ask that from now on you call it “The B word”.

Tolmos.8395:

Astral Projections.7320:

ShinraGuardian.8053:

I am going to make it my mission to now go around in game and let me character be racist to plants and humans by calling them salad bowls and meat and bookah and I can’t get banned because its only game racism.

Oh noooooes. My Sylvari Mesmer will be sobbing in the corner if she was insulted in such a vile manner. How dare you talk to her like that you…. you…..BOOKAH.

Please don’t use that offensive word. I ask that from now on you call it “The B word”.

I don’t like when people use “The S Word” on me, even though ranch dressing is delicious and all. I’m a tree, not a vegetable. But it’s all in good fun.

Doggie.3184:

Tolmos.8395:

Astral Projections.7320:

ShinraGuardian.8053:

I am going to make it my mission to now go around in game and let me character be racist to plants and humans by calling them salad bowls and meat and bookah and I can’t get banned because its only game racism.

Oh noooooes. My Sylvari Mesmer will be sobbing in the corner if she was insulted in such a vile manner. How dare you talk to her like that you…. you…..BOOKAH.

Please don’t use that offensive word. I ask that from now on you call it “The B word”.

I don’t like when people use “The S Word” on me, even though ranch dressing is delicious and all. I’m a tree, not a vegetable. But it’s all in good fun.

Typical Salad person. Trying to make the best of their situation.

Why is this topic still open?

The latest State of the game the devs called Charrs “Cats with Horns” oh the humanity, umm Charrmanity?

You’re taking life waaaaaaay too seriously