A return to GW1 mentality
I don’t think that’s a fair question. If you want a game just like GW1, you play GW1.
A better question is: How can we apply the lessons learned from GW1 and GW2 to make GW2 better?
1. I’m not sure how to do this, given the gear problems in GW2. It’s just not easy to say “I want to try a new build, let me go get a entirely new set of gear for it right quick.” Especially when the build may not be what you want, and you don’t need that gear any more. Newer characters with locked traits have even worse problems.
2. Let’s NOT add huge challenges to Living Story, nor anything requiring a team. That’s a good way to lock people out of the story, and they want that as accessible as possible to as many players as possible. I have no problem with adding such things into side missions that the plot doesn’t require, though.
And to prevent speed clearing? You need a reason for people to slow down and do things differently, or a different way to get those rewards so there’s less desire to grind them endlessly and as quickly as possible.
3. “Challenging teamwork heavy content is fun, but the community won’t play it if there’s a mindless easy way that gives faster loot.” Then don’t build it for the community. Put more challenging things into instances where a small, well honed team can face it, and let them do it for fun. The rewards may not be that great, but if you keep the costs of failure from being too high, then it’s still something those looking for a challenge can do.
4. I can’t really speak on this one, as I don’t PvP. But, maybe take a page from Legend of Zelda? Make a map or two where manipulating something in one area changes things in another. Then, getting to control point A isn’t just getting you point A, it’s also allowing you to gain an advantage at point C.
Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
I’ll start. Return the build template saving/loading system. Make an extra tab for a full second or even third equipment set. So that you can switch builds easily.
More instances like Aetherpath with loot that makes World Bosses that aren’t Tequatl/Wurm worthless. Living world instances that require a party of 5 and are challenging. Challenging instances should give more progress towards ascended gear than can be gotten otherwise.
More PvP maps without capture point. A mode with no down state, to promote survivability.
I’ll start. Return the build template saving/loading system. Make an extra tab for a full second or even third equipment set. So that you can switch builds easily.
More instances like Aetherpath with loot that makes World Bosses that aren’t Tequatl/Wurm worthless. Living world instances that require a party of 5 and are challenging. Challenging instances should give more progress towards ascended gear than can be gotten otherwise.
More PvP maps without capture point. A mode with no down state, to promote survivability.
All good suggestions, but I would add some more:
Way, way more skills, traits, and weapons.
Rare, map exclusive and dungeon-exclusive skins for every location.
A _______, the Traveler character who rewards players for bringing him certain junk items, chosen at random.
A small-scale WvW map reminiscient of the old Alliance Battles. Overflows like EotM and throws 5 players from each server against each other in a battle that does not require siege equipment. Control points guarded by veterans.
More instances like Aetherpath with loot that makes World Bosses that aren’t Tequatl/Wurm worthless. Living world instances that require a party of 5 and are challenging. Challenging instances should give more progress towards ascended gear than can be gotten otherwise.
Sounds like what you want here is really just a way to get rewards/loot faster than most of the players.
I think this would be a Very Bad Idea. Not only does it create a growing imbalance between the skilled and not-so skilled as the more skilled also get better gear faster, it also makes other content easier faster. There’s also the fact that with bigger rewards on the line, people will feel more pressure to win no matter the cost. The instance/event/whatever itself needs to be the real reward, done for fun and not for prizes.
Otherwise, you’ll just have people work out the new “best way” to do it, and then that will become the required way, 24/7.
Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
My opinions:
1) Continued skill balance will aid in allowing more builds to work and therefore increase build diversity. This is already happening. Not only that, Anet devs have said they are interested in adding new skills, utilities and weapons. They’ve added new healing skills already. The pace can be argued about ‘til we are blue in the face but it is happening eventually. The armor cost issue is a limiting factor I’ll agree, but without it, players would lose another item to work towards. Beyond that, I can’t speak with any authority on the choice behind tying essential combat stats to gear.
2) You are going to hit a wall with trying to find an ideal level of “challenge” in PVE content. Challenging to you may be impossible to someone else or trivial to someone better than you. Consider that we have players who find it difficult simply to maneuver around Dry Top using the aspect crystals. You have to think about your audience when addressing this and it sounds like you want to alienate a part of the GW2 user base. I think Anet is doing the reasonable thing by breaking up the difficulty into different activities to satisfy a diverse audience. Your mileage on that subject may vary. In GW1, everything was instanced so you could seek out the harder content without necessarily imposing it on others. This is kind of happening with the design philosophy in GW2 already. You may just want more of that kind of content. They are probably working on it already. For some players, they are already facing nightmarish difficulty trying to solo the living story instance bosses.
3) You are going to catch a lot of heat for saying that the “meta” requires no coordination. And this is partly because I assume you are referring to the dungeon meta. PVP meta is very different than what you described. Dungeons require coordination but not in the way you are probably asking for. The PVE dungeon “meta” will change eventually through continued class balance, new mob designs, and better instance designs. Again on difficulty, GW2 launched with a design ethos that moved away from some of the trappings of trinity based combat (which included GW1). This meant that a lot of the responsibility for the success of the group in instanced combat was spread across all individuals. What you are asking for, sounds like a reversal of that stance. Good luck making that case. “GW1 had it” doesn’t sound like it will pass the test.
4) Again, you use teamwork in a way that sounds like it’s moving back towards a trinity oriented game. PVP teams in Guild Wars 2 that use coordination have a much greater chance of success than teams that don’t. Even so, you want an unspecified greater degree of teamwork? Idunno. You already said that it will get better as new modes are added and I agree. Coupled with better class balance you will see new strategies open up and new team compositions.
I’ve said it before but I think you are better off not comparing GW2 to GW1. It’s a whole different ball game for so many reasons. What I hear you saying is you want GW2 to be better, not to be more like GW1. There are a ton of ways to do that. If you truly want GW2 to be more like GW1, you will realize eventually that GW2 is intentionally not like Guild Wars 1 for a number of reasons. Some are good and some are not depending on what type of game you are looking for.
Hard mode dungeons.
A small-scale WvW map reminiscient of the old Alliance Battles. Overflows like EotM and throws 5 players from each server against each other in a battle that does not require siege equipment. Control points guarded by veterans.
I like this idea, but I would rather have it closer to GW1 style, 5 person groups and each side has 3 of those group. Would make it a 15v15v15, with a couple different maps that could be selected at random.
Edit: Thought about this a little after I posted, and I would love for this to be a PvP addition so that it would use the PvP build and would not be balanced on the Rare/Exotic/Ascended of someone armor/weapons. Would also be better so you can change builds quickly before going back in just like in GW1.
Pinnacle of Responsibility[Mom]-Yaks Bend
Unstable Shield, Unstable Light
Unstable Shield, Unstable Light
(edited by sirflamesword.3896)
No need to go to a GW1 mentality. GW1 is a better game for me so I still go there for some fun. I keep holding out hope that this game turns the corner (stop the boring LS releases and make an expansion).
SBI
No need to go to a GW1 mentality. GW1 is a better game for me so I still go there for some fun. I keep holding out hope that this game turns the corner (stop the boring LS releases and make an expansion).
Having tried it recently to work on HOM stuff I found it to be terrible in comparison to this game by a long shot. The pvp was a little more fun but that was about it.
More instances like Aetherpath with loot that makes World Bosses that aren’t Tequatl/Wurm worthless. Living world instances that require a party of 5 and are challenging. Challenging instances should give more progress towards ascended gear than can be gotten otherwise.
Sounds like what you want here is really just a way to get rewards/loot faster than most of the players.
I think this would be a Very Bad Idea. Not only does it create a growing imbalance between the skilled and not-so skilled as the more skilled also get better gear faster, it also makes other content easier faster. There’s also the fact that with bigger rewards on the line, people will feel more pressure to win no matter the cost. The instance/event/whatever itself needs to be the real reward, done for fun and not for prizes.
Otherwise, you’ll just have people work out the new “best way” to do it, and then that will become the required way, 24/7.
See, the GW1 way, was for gear to be completely equivalent. Appearance was the only difference. Ascended should be easier to get, appearance should be earned. This makes loot not impact gameplay, and releases people to play what is fun. I will tell you, that there are a number of players who feel compelled to do world bosses for loot, despite the fact that they are mind numbingly easy and boring.
Right now the only challenging content is Aether path, fractals, and a handful of explorable dungeons. Seriously, all it would take to refresh this game, would be one challenging instance per living story update. That and returning the build swappability of GW1, but that’s much harder. So start with the challenging instances.
I will give Anet credit though, Dry Top is very well done. Having a map wide score that drives everyone’s loot, with lots of simultaneous events promotes smaller teams using a divide and conquer strategy. If we must have persistent world, I suppose Dry Top is acceptable.
GW1 was very different, so it’s unfair to really compare the two, based on mechanics.
GW1 was designed for Instanced Groups.
GW2 was designed for Open-World Cooperative gameplay.
In GW2, skills are designed for action-combat, which requires frequent mobility, and quicker reaction skills with dodging, retaliation, etc.
Even random arenas required more teamwork than the current GW2 PvP.
Given that RA in GW1 can largely be boiled down to “the team with the monk wins”, I’m not really sure how you can derive this conclusion.
I’m not sure it would be possible, or at least without much difficulty, to bring your CO mentality into an MMO game.
The mechanics of the two are very different. Besides, once Heroes were introduced, it became basically a single-player game for many. I don’t think the Devs’ vision for the game is to be like GW1, especially since they expressly stated it wasn’t.
I’m not sure it would be possible, or at least without much difficulty, to bring your CO mentality into an MMO game.
The mechanics of the two are very different. Besides, once Heroes were introduced, it became basically a single-player game for many. I don’t think the Devs’ vision for the game is to be like GW1, especially since they expressly stated it wasn’t.
IMO, GW2 is more geared towards single player being your character can now do EVERYTHING(i.e. heal, cc, dps etc…) without even remotely needing any help there is no longer the need for designated roles(i.e. 1 healer, 1 cc, 1 dps etc…) creating teamwork, try doing ANYTHING in GW1 with your character alone(depending on class) and see how fast you die. Hero/henchy-all hero is more co-op play.
Mud Bone – Sylvari Ranger
GW2 isn’t quite holding up to its predecessor.
A bit subjective since it seems to imply GW1 was a better game…
A better question is: How can we apply the lessons learned from GW1 and GW2 to make GW2 better?
I guess that makes for a slightly more interesting conversation, which I can’t partake in since I played GW1 for a few days and I haven’t actually felt like investing anymore time or effort into it…
Sounds like what you want here is really just a way to get rewards/loot faster than most of the players.
This is what most people want it seems. There’s just subtle competition in MMOs, not an outright one but more of a bragging-rights thing (who has the newest best armour, or legendary weapons or what not).
Hard mode dungeons.
Although the question would be, what’s the goal? To add challenging content? Well challenging content is only fun until you’ve beaten it. Most likely what will happen is that players will ask for better loot in hard mode dungeons, then choice the easiest of the hard mode dungeons and then turn it into another mindless loot grind through pure rote.
But that said I do believe adding a hardmode would (theoretically) be easier than say adding new dungeons (since you could reuse a lot of the art assets). All that would be required is mob ability tuning and perhaps adding a few more.
No need to go to a GW1 mentality. GW1 is a better game for me so I still go there for some fun. I keep holding out hope that this game turns the corner (stop the boring LS releases and make an expansion).
Different strokes…
No need to go to a GW1 mentality. GW1 is a better game for me so I still go there for some fun. I keep holding out hope that this game turns the corner (stop the boring LS releases and make an expansion).
Having tried it recently to work on HOM stuff I found it to be terrible in comparison to this game by a long shot. The pvp was a little more fun but that was about it.
Yeah me too. I guess it’s like old movies. Honestly most old movies (with a handful of exception of course) are horrible, bad acting, bad script writing, bad effects but people love them for some reason.
But hey different strokes for different folks.
Right now the only challenging content is Aether path, fractals, and a handful of explorable dungeons. Seriously, all it would take to refresh this game, would be one challenging instance per living story update. That and returning the build swappability of GW1, but that’s much harder. So start with the challenging instances.
Too bad no one does aether or those handful of explorable dungeons. Challenge will always only cater to the minority I’m afraid. Still I’m all for ANet adding hardmode to dungeons if only because it seems like relatively little effort in correlation to the small number of people it would cater to.
I will give Anet credit though, Dry Top is very well done. Having a map wide score that drives everyone’s loot, with lots of simultaneous events promotes smaller teams using a divide and conquer strategy. If we must have persistent world, I suppose Dry Top is acceptable.
Indirect cooperation and dispersal seems to be the best means of getting the zerg to cooperate.
GW2 isn’t quite holding up to its predecessor.
A bit subjective since it seems to imply GW1 was a better game…
A better question is: How can we apply the lessons learned from GW1 and GW2 to make GW2 better?
I guess that makes for a slightly more interesting conversation, which I can’t partake in since I played GW1 for a few days and I haven’t actually felt like investing anymore time or effort into it…
Let me clear this up. Yes, I think GW1 is inherently more fun. Someone who played it for a few days to attempt to get HoM points, only to realize that would require years of playing, obviously is going to abandon that goal. Or maybe you truly don’t like instances. To each his own.
GW2 is different than GW1. However, since it is the sequel and likely the only sequel for a good while, it, of course, can be compared to its predecessor. GW1 had a system where players reached maximum level quickly, obtained maximum level gear quickly, and then spent the rest of the game unlocking new skills in an ever expanding toolbox. Players would have templates for many builds (I had at least 80 builds saved) and would change between them freely between instances. The meta at any given time would include at least 20 builds per profession. Appearance was the only difference between loot, thus keeping everyone on equal footing, and making grinding completely optional. GW1 also had reasonably challenging content dispersed through the majority of the game including the main story. There were hundreds of instances that I happily played more than once.
When GW2 came out, it seemed like it was going to preserve some of this, at least in part. Classes were extremely versatile, you could reach lvl 80 RELATIVELY quickly, and exotic gear could be obtained RELATIVELY quickly also. Any given class had at least two viable stat spreads that could be used. Dynamic events seemed to try to preserve the impact one could have on the world that used to be delivered through instances.
Fast forward to now, ascended gear turns the game into a giant grind fest. The fun content is spread thin over an ocean of mind numbingly easy, and thus boring, content. The community sticks to the content that gets them loot the fastest, no matter how boring. It’s painful to watch. If the new content is completed successfully the first time, regardless of build, by yourself, then I guarantee you, I will play it exactly one time. To see what happens next, and that’s it. Maybe a second time for achievements…maybe. If you want content that people will WANT to play again, it should be challenging.
And if we think GW2 cannot be fixed, that’s fine. Any entrepreneurs out there? Make another instance only MMORPG, with active combat, challenging content, easy to reach level cap, easily obtainable max level gear, appearance only loot, high build diversity, freedom to swap builds easily, and several PvP modes. Make an original story and set it in an original world. There is currently no game out there right now fitting this description. I guarantee you would sell at least 6.5 million copies (what GW1 sold). I’d do it myself except I don’t feel like founding my own gaming company right now.
The problem is that GW1 set unbelivable high quality standards.
Gw2 is not bad in any meaning, it just looks like a) it’s not the same staff like GW1 and they never looked at GW1 or b) they simply didn’t have time or focus or whatever to details what made GW1 so successfull
well it’s not that there are not easy solutions for fast fixes….. and then make it epic.
Short term fixes
1. Reactivate “death Penalty” / that keeps player from zerk only gear and build
2. Take reviving away from all but Guardian and Necro
3. Give people changeable skills to even have the chance to make different builds.
Five fixed skills where 4 are totally ignored isn’t really cutting it.
4. De connect PvE and PvE skills. Having same base skills just balance them different for PvP. This worked awesome for GW1
5. Bring back Race title skills
medium Term goals
1. Match the map with GW1 original map. Too many great places missing
2. Bring back Elona and Cantha. Again, A-Net robbed too many people from their favorite places.
3. DO NOT connect a map to an event like LS. Dry top is just there because the Zeyphire Ship went down there. That takes any motivation to go there when not interested in LS back piece or weapons.
That would make the whole community incredible happy PvE same as PvE.
And if we go from there A-Net creates an epic game without any contenders for years to come…… let’s do it.
………….. only problem that goes against everything A-Net is doing right now.
Or even better idea for Anet. Release GW1 expansion: “The Founding of Ebonhawke”. Bridge the story from GW1.5 to GW2.