Guild Wars 2

Traditional MMOs are so addicting because they are constantly rewarding. When a reward is obtained, dopamine is released and a pleasurable sensation occurs. Dopamine has such a powerful effect that people are even willing to participate in monotony to keep it going.

This is what Guild Wars 2 is lacking that has so many people upset. Players are wondering why they should struggle in explorable dungeons for gear that only looks cool, grind for legendary weapons that can’t even be shown in the Heart of the Mists, acquire titles not shown on name plates, or obtain achievements that cannot be inspected.

ArenaNet constantly stated that Guild Wars 2 would revolve around playing for fun and not rewards. Fine, great, but how is it fun to kill the Claw of Jormag when it is literally impossible for the dragon to win? How is it fun to crawl through such poorly designed dungeons like Honor of the Waves? How is it fun to engage in “dynamic events” that are either laughably easy or have laughable consequences? How is it fun to participate in WvW rampant with server imbalances and invisible armies? Hell, how is it fun to enjoy the personal story when it has a donkey named Traeherne?

For many players, acquiring rewards of substance is the fun. If ArenaNet is going to revolve its game design around fun and not rewards, they should at least make it that way – or otherwise – include better options for those yearning for dopamine.

PS: I still love the game and particularly enjoy structured PvP. Just playing devil’s advocate.

at one point a game cant or shouldnt give more “power”. its disbalencing.

the dopamine factor will probably be pvp and most importantly epic wvwvw battles.
once anet nailed the wvwvw, gw2 can be almost infinite.

an big dragon never winning; that is obviously. well.. not great.
but on the other hand so difficult to balance.
thats why dungeons exist.
and they will probably tweak them amazingly, and pump out new epic ones, with big dragons! and also adjust the reward.
dynamic pve event are mostly a 1 shot deal, more akin to a single player/ coop action game.

I agree 100%. Gw2 is failing to create a sense of accomplishment for players. Players love to showcase their toons and showcase their skills. Another major aspect Gw2 is lacking is rivalry between players…

kittenido.8436:

Turtlemilk.1064:

Traditional MMOs are so addicting because they are constantly rewarding. When a reward is obtained, dopamine is released and a pleasurable sensation occurs. Dopamine has such a powerful effect that people are even willing to participate in monotony to keep it going.

This is what Guild Wars 2 is lacking that has so many people upset. Players are wondering why they should struggle in explorable dungeons for gear that only looks cool, grind for legendary weapons that can’t even be shown in the Heart of the Mists, acquire titles not shown on name plates, or obtain achievements that cannot be inspected.

ArenaNet constantly stated that Guild Wars 2 would revolve around playing for fun and not rewards. Fine, great, but how is it fun to kill the Claw of Jormag when it is literally impossible for the dragon to win? How is it fun to crawl through such poorly designed dungeons like Honor of the Waves? How is it fun to engage in “dynamic events” that are either laughably easy or have laughable consequences? How is it fun to participate in WvW rampant with server imbalances and invisible armies? Hell, how is it fun to enjoy the personal story when it has a donkey named Traeherne?

For many players, acquiring rewards of substance is the fun. If ArenaNet is going to revolve its game design around fun and not rewards, they should at least make it that way – or otherwise – include better options for those yearning for dopamine.

PS: I still love the game and particularly enjoy structured PvP. Just playing devil’s advocate.

This coming from a person who goes by the name Turtlemilk !?!

Because something that can be phonetically pronounced as “dic-ky doo” is miles ahead on the reputation charts?

Dude, yeah the dungeons are not fun at all. They are hard as in hard to suffer through. They have the worst mechanics for making them difficult, and it involves dying and zerging a lot of the times. I got to say I almost feel like if I get one shotted or CCed till dead again I will chuck my monitor acorss the room. That is NOT fun.

Hard does not have to be not fun. Challenging and fun often go together quite well….but in any case the main thing is it be fun to do, not so much hardcore. Lay off the hardcore and make sure its fun to do.

I rather enjoy the fact that, when I eventually hit 80 on my ranger, I’ll deck him out in a great set. Then, when I level up another character to see the story and gameplay of, say, my elementalist, I don’t have to worry about my ranger falling behind the new gear curve that every other traditional MMO has out there. I can do the story and have tons of dopamine that way.

I tried to keep FOUR toons in World of Warcraft raid ready: Druid, Paladin, Hunter, Priest…. and it sucked.

SUUUUPER glad that greatness in this game isn’t a product of how much time you have to grind on heroics/raids so that your gear can win you fights.

THAT is the underlying arguement of progression whines.

I’m having fun with the game my self tho likely to hit lvl 80 be for I get all the map clears then I well have to find all the puzzles. As for the group complain how the dungeons are nothing but death zergs suggestion find out where you are making mistakes and learn from them and try out a different idea until you get it so you DON’T die in them but then I all ready know I’m talking to a brick wall. As for the dopamine argument I sorry but I’ve seen air that is harder to see threw all you want is some item you can wave around that you can use to lord over other players to try and inflate you’r ego as for dopamine and the lack you are getting try taking up skydiving or base jumping that might work better for ya.

Great post OP, but GW1 only had aesthetic rewards and that was great fun.

GW2 tries so hard to make sure that everyone is the same and that everyone wins that it becomes a bland, paint by numbers experience. Having the shallowest classes in the genre doesn’t help either.

Just here to say I agree.

Not enough satisfaction in some of your achievements.

Moonthrower.1406:

THAT is the underlying arguement of progression whines.

And yet we loved GW1.

GW2 is just a very shallow game. That’s it.

I like the WvW, everything else annoys me after awhile. I had way more fun before dopamine was a factor, before launch, during beta weekends when I was running around taking screenshots and going, ‘oooo, pretty!’ every five seconds. When progression entered the picture I started getting bored of PVE real quick.

Of course, with the exception of beta weekend 3 leveling speed, I found leveling way too slow anyway, even during the lower, faster levels. As soon as it mattered as far as character progression (launch day), it went from meh to tedious.

Geemo.6018:

I agree 100%. Gw2 is failing to create a sense of accomplishment for players. Players love to showcase their toons and showcase their skills. Another major aspect Gw2 is lacking is rivalry between players…

This maybe true. In GW after I got my titles people would be like “Wow you got **** title how’d you do it?” etc. “Can someone help me with the Crystal Desert!” etc. etc. if I join your Guild will you guys help me…….

In GW2 things are obtainable by the average Joe (does the game even have titles?). Removing the need to join Guilds (after which the game is named), team up, ask for help etc. etc. Why would people ask for help or need it when the game has been dumbed down so much?

Sure people join our guild in game but most I bet join because the games name is Guild Wars 2 and think they should be in one. Then they’ll go off and solo the world like the rest of us.

The game is constant reward, you’re just looking for the wrong ones. You constantly get achievements, money is easy to get but still rewarding (and worth real currency), and leveling is accessible, plentiful, and never stops.

And what’s this about not being able to show off your gear? Last time I checked, you don’t DO that in other games. In other games, you use what has the best numbers. In GW2, you use whatever you like using and showing off.

Sorry, I’m just not seeing valid arguments.

I agree with the OP’s hypothesis about dopamine involved in MMO’s- indeed dopamine plays a role in all RPG’s. Since I’m new to GW2 (I’ve only played a little), I feel disappointed that according to his post, and the follow up posts, I won’t be getting my “fix” with GW2. I kinda of suspected as much by my early game play. I suppose I’ll continue with it for a while and see how it goes.

Fozee I can’t speak for everyone but my point is that you could drag someone off the street and let them play GW2, they’ll pick it up in minutes. Maybe that was Anets goal? But the flipside is you have skillhungry GW veterans that are almost going canniballistic for more skills

Paul.4081:

Fozee I can’t speak for everyone but my point is that you could drag someone off the street and let them play GW2, they’ll pick it up in minutes. Maybe that was Anets goal? But the flipside is you have skillhungry GW veterans that are almost going canniballistic for skills

Number of spells doesn’t mean much. It’s something to collect, but eventually it just got annoying and was unfair to new players regardless of their skill level. I very highly doubt anyone rated highly in tournaments would agree with the number of skills being relevant.

Fozee.1083:

Paul.4081:

Fozee I can’t speak for everyone but my point is that you could drag someone off the street and let them play GW2, they’ll pick it up in minutes. Maybe that was Anets goal? But the flipside is you have skillhungry GW veterans that are almost going canniballistic for skills

Number of spells doesn’t mean much. It’s something to collect, but eventually it just got annoying and was unfair to new players regardless of their skill level. I very highly doubt anyone rated highly in tournaments would agree with the number of skills being relevant.

Are we both talking about GW1?

If you preferred GW1, then it’s best advised that you go and play that. They made GW2 for a reason. They wanted it to be fundamentally different from GW1, they didn’t want to make the same game. They ended up detesting that skill system, which is part of the reason GW2 was born in the first place.

Don’t care about the mists and I hardly need a gear grind, titles or any of the other ‘fluff’ that companies use to make you ‘addicted’. I’m just not in the % of people that respond to those mechanics.

I have to tell you, I am thoroughly enjoying GW2! I migrated from an 89.9% dead korean “grinder” published in the US as a “FTP” which translates to “PTW”, where you had to GRIND and GRIND and GRIND and GRIND and did I mention GRIND just to get 20% EXP or MAYBE get a weapon or armor that is worth doing, literally you had to kill the same mob over and over again 200,000 times to make a level in some cases.
For me and I suspect a great many others, GW2 is a “breath of fresh air”. It is playable and enjoyable by anyone, and it offers, in my opinion, significant challenges and goals that when over come or achieved are rewarding in themselves not to mention the trip there. The world is HUGE! and I am constantly finding new things on the maps.
I think what the problem is, is that there is a “type” of gamer that needs to exude power, and need to display achievement to find enjoyment, these are the same kinds of people that in the old game I played would spend over $300 a month to ensure they could “2hit” anyone in PvP.
Bottom line is this, GW2 is leaps and bounds above anything else out there, it is an improvement everywhere, and it is extremely enjoyable to play, that being said….. you cannot please everyone so all you can do is try to make the majority happy….. I am pretty sure there are more people that enjoy this game as opposed to thinking it needs to be more “materialistic”

Thanks ArenaNet

Fozee.1083:

If you preferred GW1, then it’s best advised that you go and play that. They made GW2 for a reason. They wanted it to be fundamentally different from GW1, they didn’t want to make the same game. They ended up detesting that skill system, which is part of the reason GW2 was born in the first place.

Are you speaking for them or yourself?

While I agree they probably made it to appeal to the widest audience possible, they risk alienating their biggest fans, risky business.

Whats next? premium BF…I mean premium GW2?

Sorry Fozee, it’s not you I’m having a go at

The classic modern psychological theory of happiness is: set a goal that’s only just within your limits, possibly even slightly beyond (once you get good); make sure that success is measurable (so there’s no doubt whether you succeeded or not); act to achieve the goal (break down the steps into sub-goals if you need to).

That’s it, that’s basically the formula of human happiness. It’s incredibly simple and effective.

Videogames are this in miniature. It’s the little chains of success that releases the feel good chemicals.

The way this would connect to the OP is if you finish something expecting a financial reward as part of the payoff, or something like that, and don’t get it, then that’s thwarting the process somewhat.

But you will still get a feelgood factor if you just adjust your expectations: financial reward isn’t that big, but the achievement, the stretching yourself, the measurable success, is still there.

Big rewards are analogous to sugar with diet: our bodies innately go for sweet things. If we have “essence of sweet” on offer, we’ll blindly go for that (like a dumb animal in a scientist’s experiment); but it’s not necessarily good for us. WoW and other games train us to “crave sugar” (in order to keep people paying monthly subs). GW2 dials that down a bit (perhaps a wee bit too much, there’s probably a sweet spot that they’ll adjust towards that’s a bit higher reward than at present).

Guild Wars 2 lacks a similar rewarding system for leveling up. We get basically all our weapon abilities within like the first 10 levels. Skill points don’t really feel like progression and trait points feel so minor.

My thoughts exactly. ArenaNet and the people who defend them say we shouldn’t play the game for rewards, but for fun. But if you were to play for fun, with no thought to rewards, you’d get bored pretty fast. Dynamic events in Orr get boring really fast (where’s the fun in 30-40 people spamming AoE skills for 5 minutes?), dungeons, as you said, are horribly designed and not fun, while also being unprofitable due to dying a lot.

The truth is that, as it stands right now, doing almost anything at level 80 is unrewarding and not fun. Unless they change it to make DEs, killing mobs, dungeons more rewarding, I believe many people will simply leave after a couple of weeks at level 80.

who said that GW2 is not a grind game? just look at the cost of karma gears and dungeon gears. now of course you don’t have to grind but it’s a mind game. trust me nobody runs the dungeon for fun. they all aiming for certain items that they like.

datheway.8364:

who said that GW2 is not a grind game? just look at the cost of karma gears and dungeon gears. now of course you don’t have to grind but it’s a mind game. trust me nobody runs the dungeon for fun. they all aiming for certain items that they like.

Of course. The people who are saying we should do the dungeons for fun are probably not even level 80 and they’re probably unaware of the insane cost of the dungeon pieces.

who cares about the dungeon pieces? theyre a nice bonus, but their stats are not required for anything…it’s all in your mind son.

arcaneclarity.5283:

Guild Wars 2 lacks a similar rewarding system for leveling up. We get basically all our weapon abilities within like the first 10 levels. Skill points don’t really feel like progression and trait points feel so minor.

SP is your reward for exploring the world, and traits make all the difference, depending on what kinda build u wanna go for. my guardian has 6 vastly different builds that are all viable in pve and spvp. i achieve this by fiddling with a thing called “traits”.