Guild Wars 2

Its been a year and I still feel like there is a great lack of storytelling content in this game. Mainly because a lot of lore saturated content is found in dungeons or the living story. Thats really about it. Besides that the entire game seem to be grinding to get certain items or doing dynamic events. I think this is still my biggest beef with GW2. Especially when I heard about how we’d obtain the Precursors. Months ago when we learned about a scavenger hunt for precursors, I imagined this long chain of quests that would be rather lore heavy which would each be unique to each precursor you sought to obtain. A chain of instanced stories or what not with difficult tasks that would may help reveal info onto the legendary you seek to get. Instead, Anet took the easy way out and did the predictable thing by throwing in what sounds like gated grinding content, i.e., doing certain tasks already in game that will help you receive certain materials which will eventually lead you to crafting the precursor.

You may have noticed but outside the Living Story Instances in game, the once per patch ones, the only way Anet has sought to communicate a compelling story to the players is through outside the game, in blogposts, which is kind of sad imo. Im pretty sure they also know DE’s still can’t tell stories, because you can’t have a DE tell a unique story since they repeat about every 5 minutes to an hour or more. We all still sense this conflict but I think its been brushed over. WoodenPotatoes made this criticism back a few months ago and its still a valid criticism. The only way I can think of making this work is if Anet wanted to incorporate more instances that tie together the lore of certain zones or stories they want to tell by using the Fractals of the Mists.

This way it actually makes sense for everyone to go into a certain instance because it is actually locked in time at a certain place in the Mists where everyone can access it. You don’t get that weird feeling like you may in WOW when you complete a long epic, unique quest line and then see someone completing the exact same thing like 10 minutes later. Anyway I think its actually an interested idea, because FOTM could be a very useful tool for anet to incorporate a lot of lore through one time like events that happened in the past.

The thing Dynamic Events cant do is be lore specific. For example, we all know champion events. You can only ever have a Generic name for the Champion of a DE. You can’t have something like “kittenin the Last Centaur” who has some long history behind him, because then it doesnt make sense for him to spawn every 10 minutes. The fact that he has to be named “Champion Centaur” makes everything so blan, you can attach no unique lore to him either cuz then youd end up with the same problem.

HOWEVER, again, if you used FOTM, it would fix the problem. Please discuss this guys. Its an area of GW2 that could greatly be improved.

What? There’s a story in Guild Wars 2? Where?

In all seriousness though, I don’t even feel like there’s any lore in GW2 anymore. A game that was supposed to be lore-heavy and follow in the footsteps of GW1 turned out to be a collection of mini-games and mini-content updates that take me half an hour to do.

There is the living story which I like, but beyond that, a lot of the content seems really dry in terms of lore. Im just trying to demonstrate that Anet can’t take this DE route forever unless they make some big changes to it. Its not that they are bad, they worked really well with invasions events and I like those. But there are plenty of things they cant do that I listed on my OP.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Im pretty sure they also know DE’s still can’t tell stories, because you can’t have a DE tell a unique story since they repeat about every 5 minutes to an hour or more.

DEs can tell a story, a few of them do that.

I think ArenaNet gave up, though, after learning that most players are more interested in grinding than playing through a story. It’s not that DEs can’t be improved, rather that ArenaNet sees no point in doing so.

Dev 1 – “So DE’S are all the same, boring and unrewarding and the players don’t seem to like them, what shall we do?”

Dev 2 – “LETS ADD MORE OF THEM!!!”

~players still don’t do DE’S~

Devs – “Well we might as well abandon them!”

Anet logic.

Erasculio.2914:

DEs can tell a story, a few of them do that.

I think ArenaNet gave up, though, after learning that most players are more interested in grinding than playing through a story. It’s not that DEs can’t be improved, rather that ArenaNet sees no point in doing so.

They ditched DE (along with most of the manifesto) at the first sign of trouble, and turned toward the grind/farm model that worked for e.g. WoW. Can’t blame them for taking the safer path, but they now have 0 respect from me.

byjiang.1260:

Erasculio.2914:

DEs can tell a story, a few of them do that.

I think ArenaNet gave up, though, after learning that most players are more interested in grinding than playing through a story. It’s not that DEs can’t be improved, rather that ArenaNet sees no point in doing so.

They ditched DE (along with most of the manifesto) at the first sign of trouble, and turned toward the grind/farm model that worked for e.g. WoW. Can’t blame them for taking the safer path, but they now have 0 respect from me.

They should’ve (and still can) just fix what they have, but for some reason they can’t see it, or atleast shown they can’t see it.

Seriously just make the rewards actually good for WINNING events and reward teamwork instead of mob tagging, and then make the events a little more interesting more diverse, rather than just “spawn a wave of mobs, then do it agian”.

ArenaNet’s way of storytelling has always been very open ended. They will provide subtle hints and allude to something more than what you see but they never quite get to that point where everything is revealed. I would imagine this is done on purpose so that things remain open to interpretation and it is up to your imagination to fill in the gaps.

As for dynamic events telling stories, it’s actually surprising how many people don’t realize there are strong story elements tied into dynamic events. The thing is when you get right into a dynamic event as it starts you’ve already missed a great deal of dialogue that occurs between the NPCs. Most players will wander into a dynamic event without knowing what the context behind it is. Most players will also leave right after completing a dynamic event and miss out on what happens with the NPCs afterwards.

I don’t see what you guys are talking about. They havent ditched DE’s at all. The invasion events were an enormous stepforward for DE’s. They event said this was only the beginning and they have ambitious plans for the DE system in 2014. The point is that the very core of the game echoes because of the emptiness that DE’s can’t fill.

I think periodically releasing mission packs in updates that target lore from different parts of the world would be amazing. I don’t mean ones that you can buy if the gemstore if Anet could manage doing that xD But some time of system where you go into FOTM and play through a series of interesting storylines that tie into different parts of the world.

The easiest way to fix DE is to reward them without risking a isolated farm.

I do Dynamic events only once for the experience, I don’t need to do it twice for the experience. If I was going to do it twice, I would do it for the reward.

The problem with the Living story is the concept is brilliant, except the actual execution sucks hard. Which is sad because ANet could really have made this the crux of their game.

If you think there is no storytelling in DE’s, I’m afraid you haven’t been paying much attention.

Some DEs are pretty straight forward and don’t have any lore background, it’s true. Sometimes, it’s just a random attack on a city, like in Harathi Hinterlands for example. However, in most cases, DEs and most specifically chains of DEs have a little background story. In Frostgorge Sound I think, or one of the other snowy northern zones, there are events that feature the influence of Jormag, its minions spreading its corruption and the player stopping it by killing a veteran or a boss. The story is related through the dialogue, which you should pay attention to.

In pretty much every single DE, there is at least a small piece of dialogue. Granted, it’s no genuine scenario but it is present and it definitely tells a story – the “thickness” of that story varies depending on DEs, but the concept exists nonetheless and is widely featured in almost every zone.

What I wish would have happened is for LS to have more of an impact on the DEs of the existing zones. For example, a unique reaction to Scarlet’s invasions from each DE of each zone involved, instead of DEs overlapping as if nothing was happening. It feels out of place, and I think it would greatly improve LS and its impact, although I love Scarlet’s invasions.

Harathi Hinterlands is almost a precursor to Straits of Devastation. They’re both war zones and both have DE chains which rely on one side taking territory, holding it, then pushing forward. The story there is simple, and the NPCs have a good feel to them, especially the mercenaries in the SE corner pushing to the center of the map (Overwatch Camp). The spot in the SW corner on the beaches is fun as it’s a quick hit-and-fade against the centaur siege weapons to leave bombs behind and destroy the position then taking the nearby camp to support further pressure. There’s the Kol Skullcrusher event too . . .

Harathi is a lot of DEs done pretty well. It’s a shame there’s so few places in the game with a lot of similar “feel” to them. A zone-wide effort to really DO something, with multiple sections at work. Northern Kessex Hills is also pretty good, and so is Frozen Maw.

Malchor’s Leap and Cursed Shore are on the other edge of the coin. They’re a whole lot worse off since it’s much harder to push through alone than it is in Harathi and Northern Kessex Hills.

I don’t think that dynamic events are suffering in isolation. End game players have picked gold as the only currency they want and select their end game content accordingly. Each patch changes the gold farm and the farmers move with it. The designers need to look at their other broken currencies, such a karma, and find a better rewards system across the whole game and get balance across dungeons, fractals, events, and everything else. Orrian events should be rewarding enough for end game players to keep a high population across those zones.

Sps.7862:

If you think there is no storytelling in DE’s, I’m afraid you haven’t been paying much attention.

Some DEs are pretty straight forward and don’t have any lore background, it’s true. Sometimes, it’s just a random attack on a city, like in Harathi Hinterlands for example. However, in most cases, DEs and most specifically chains of DEs have a little background story. In Frostgorge Sound I think, or one of the other snowy northern zones, there are events that feature the influence of Jormag, its minions spreading its corruption and the player stopping it by killing a veteran or a boss. The story is related through the dialogue, which you should pay attention to.

In pretty much every single DE, there is at least a small piece of dialogue. Granted, it’s no genuine scenario but it is present and it definitely tells a story – the “thickness” of that story varies depending on DEs, but the concept exists nonetheless and is widely featured in almost every zone.

What I wish would have happened is for LS to have more of an impact on the DEs of the existing zones. For example, a unique reaction to Scarlet’s invasions from each DE of each zone involved, instead of DEs overlapping as if nothing was happening. It feels out of place, and I think it would greatly improve LS and its impact, although I love Scarlet’s invasions.

But they still have there limitations. Look at Meta-Event DE’s. Those are chains and the closest things to chain quests. But again, they have there limitations. Because of the fact that they are on a cycle and the story behind the DE has to make sense so it can be completed frequently every 10 minutes or so. Like the Gates of Arah.
The entire Meta-Event makes sense because it demonstrates the back and forth(trench like) warfare between the vigil and the risen.

YOU CAN NEVER have a DE be used for a story that is one-time only. Like the death of a specific NPC. It just wouldnt make sense for that specific DE to be locked in time, on a loop, while the rest of the world progresses. THIS IS EXACTLY what the devs are doing with the Living Story Dungeons. They didn’t make sense to be stick around as an instance locked in time. Therefore they are adding them to the fractals of the mist.

This is exactly what this entire post is about. They can bring back missions/quests and implement them through the FOTM system because DE’s cant do them.

SkylightMoon.1980:

But they still have there limitations. Look at Meta-Event DE’s. Those are chains and the closest things to chain quests. But again, they have there limitations. Because of the fact that they are on a cycle and the story behind the DE has to make sense so it can be completed frequently every 10 minutes or so. Like the Gates of Arah.
The entire Meta-Event makes sense because it demonstrates the back and forth(trench like) warfare between the vigil and the risen.

YOU CAN NEVER have a DE be used for a story that is one-time only. Like the death of a specific NPC. It just wouldnt make sense for that specific DE to be locked in time, on a loop, while the rest of the world progresses. THIS IS EXACTLY what the devs are doing with the Living Story Dungeons. They didn’t make sense to be stick around as an instance locked in time. Therefore they are adding them to the fractals of the mist.

This is exactly what this entire post is about. They can bring back missions/quests and implement them through the FOTM system because DE’s cant do them.

Well, I hate it when people say “you can never X” because that never sits right with me. Especially when we’re talking about something which hasn’t been tried yet, is a design issue, and not merely an issue of “the math don’t work”.

I mean, I don’t hate it when people go “you can never stand still for a minute AFK at Jormag under his permafrost and live”. I do hate it when people make statements like “ANet can never make an interesting part of the Living Story.” or “ANet can’t ever make permanent changes to the world.”

I’m pretty sure you can do one-shot DEs. They did it with the Ancient Karka, and probably wisely decided not to try it in that way ever again.

They are going to fix this stuff. Players are starting to get tired of the grind model. Right now the LS has a huge part in keeping this game alive. I’ve got players getting a bit bored in my guild because they feel like there hasn’t been any real good content updates (not just new content, but fixing current content) in a long time. The invasions are cool, but its another run around and auto attack thing. I’m hoping we see some fixes to stuff, especially in the open world, soon.

This is me doing a DE:
Hey look that asura is saying something funny.
[Stays to listen]

This is me doing quests:
[Click click click click]
All ready! Oh wait, no there’s an important quest hiding in a corner.
[Click click click click]
Wait, why do they want me to go back into town again?

Anet mentioned that they want to go back from instanced content and open up such things for all players. Recently seen in the Queens Arenas where players fought in non-instanced domes where other people could watch above a huge zergfest of the farming-community.

As for the new invasion-events: I don’t feel that these are a big step forward in the story-telling department. They feel more like a big zergfest. It’s nice that they are trying to break up zergs into smaller groups, but somehow players don’t see the point in splitting up since the bigger the zerg – the more champions spawn. Losing the event has no real consequences and is not much different from winning the game.

1. It’s really awesome that Anet listened to us players in giving us a permanent event which is here to stay.
2. it’s nice that it directs all players to specific non 80, non 1-25 lv. zones because those zones are rather empty otherwise
3. I feel a bit stressed that those events are on a timer, it’s more like: rush with zerg from A to B to C and ignoring the world around you.
4. I don’t like the visibility of events on the map. Why did they do this when clearly they stated that it isn’t good to have players see events happening far away. Travelling without the use of waypoints can lead to the experience that the event is over once you’re there.

I also miss quests from other games. Not the kill 10 boars quests but some with heavy storytelling. Some DEs already have nice chains which tell stories (like the dwarven artifact chain in Lornars Pass) but these are only limited to very little background lore, short dialogues and sometimes feel a bit unfinished. (what about the secret order of whispers message “31 254 13 56”)?

please more of storytelling-events

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Anet mentioned that they want to go back from instanced content and open up such things for all players. Recently seen in the Queens Arenas where players fought in non-instanced domes where other people could watch above a huge zergfest of the farming-community.

As for the new invasion-events: I don’t feel that these are a big step forward in the story-telling department. They feel more like a big zergfest. It’s nice that they are trying to break up zergs into smaller groups, but somehow players don’t see the point in splitting up since the bigger the zerg – the more champions spawn. Losing the event has no real consequences and is not much different from winning the game.

1. It’s really awesome that Anet listened to us players in giving us a permanent event which is here to stay.
2. it’s nice that it directs all players to specific non 80, non 1-25 lv. zones because those zones are rather empty otherwise
3. I feel a bit stressed that those events are on a timer, it’s more like: rush with zerg from A to B to C and ignoring the world around you.
4. I don’t like the visibility of events on the map. Why did they do this when clearly they stated that it isn’t good to have players see events happening far away. Travelling without the use of waypoints can lead to the experience that the event is over once you’re there.

I also miss quests from other games. Not the kill 10 boars quests but some with heavy storytelling. Some DEs already have nice chains which tell stories (like the dwarven artifact chain in Lornars Pass) but these are only limited to very little background lore, short dialogues and sometimes feel a bit unfinished. (what about the secret order of whispers message “31 254 13 56”)?

please more of storytelling-events

When exactly did Anet say they wanted to do more instanced content? Cuz id really like that.

SkylightMoon.1980:

When exactly did Anet say they wanted to do more instanced content? Cuz id really like that.

read it again, I said quite the opposite

Deified.7520:

Players are starting to get tired of the grind model. Right now the LS has a huge part in keeping this game alive

I´d say that is quite a contradiction right there.

The problem with lack of lore is not only because of quests. Just look at most of the mechanics and items that are introduced. There exists this awesome legendary gear, but what’s the lore behind it? Nearly zero. There has been added this ascended gear, but what’s the lore behind it? Mostly taken from GW1’s lore. There are these new villains coming up, where’s the lore behind them? In three pieces of dialogue and side-stories posted in the blog page. Let’s add new rewards to the game. What’s the lore behind them? There isn’t any lore behind them. Events are just yet another example where all it matters is the mechanics, the numbers, the mathematical side of the game. (And let’s not even mention the immersion-breaking costumes that don’t fit GW2’s world, or the abuse on particle effects).

The lack of lore, and the lack of mechanics and infrastructure to incentivate teamplay and social behaviour, are the two biggest factors that make it hard for a player to feel immersed in the world of Tyria.

Just go try GW1 again, and to Lion’s Arch. Look at the consistency in art style. Go to Cantha, go to Elona. Look at the costumes, look at the lore, look at the player’s equipment, look at the lore behind enemies. Then come back to GW2’s Lion Arch, and watch the colorful and flashy land of particles and laser wings. GW2’s Lion Arch is not a town. It’s an experimental marketingground, with any artistic integrity buried deep into its architecture and nothing else.

DarkWasp.7291:

This is me doing a DE:
Hey look that asura is saying something funny.
[Stays to listen]

This is me doing quests:
[Click click click click]
All ready! Oh wait, no there’s an important quest hiding in a corner.
[Click click click click]
Wait, why do they want me to go back into town again?

This is me doing a DE :
Hey look these npc’s are talking about something I don’t care about
[Runs away and does a different event]

This is me doing quests:
[Clicks, and reads the quest and learns the backstory of what’s happening]
Oh well this is interesting

Yeah, the bias works both ways.

Realistically this is me doing pretty much EVERY DE in the game :

Kills the wave of 5 boring mobs.

[More spawn]

Kills the new wave of 5 boring mobs.

Repeat x5

Collects crappy reward and moves on.

No different than rushing through a boring quest lol.

I saw a post on reddit about a newcomer to gw2 who was somewhat confused about the lack of lore. Again, when I first came to the game I felt the same way. I think this is because DE’s cannot communicate in depth lore. But the truth is that the guidl wars universe has a ton of lore. Its just a matter of implementing it better through the content that needs to take place. I’ll give them a chance on their ambitious plans for DE’s next year but im pretty skeptical on how they can do it.