Guild Wars 2

Evagal.2584:

Haha..wow. All these white knights saying all this grind garbage is okay because “its an mmo.”

You’re right. It IS an MMO. GW2 was SUPPOSE to be the MMO where you didn’t have to actually WORK for endgame gear (stats). Little effort was required: this was the point of the game. Little emphasis on gear..the gear is easy to get. After that, you can simply do whatever you wanted: WvWvW,Spvp, dungeons, or chase that legendary or mini-legendary skin. However,you had no worries of being left behind with tiered gear.

Did any of you play before Ascended gear,or are you all new people?
Ascended gear was introduced which caved the entire game’s base philosophy.
It is now a grind-gearmill like every other MMO.
The OP had the vision of when the game was first released.
Sorry OP,that game is long gone :|

First, everyone that disagrees with something you believe is not automatically a white knight and that type of labeling is couterproductive to any serious discussion. It diminishes your credibility, if you care at all about that sort of thing.

Secondly, ascended gear, ie vertical progression, has been in the game since November. If you’re just finding out about it now, maybe you haven’t played this game.

I’ve been here since beta one and I’m not particularly happy with every change Anet has made…but then, I’m pragmatic. I know most people aren’t self-entertaining. In a theme-park MMO they need “stuff to do”. That’s all most MMORPGs actually are. A bunch of stuff to do.

Some people dungeon and raid, some people do dailies, some people RP, but it’s all just stuff to do. And most people who play themepark MMOs leave when they run out of stuff to do. This is my experience.

So Anet tried it the way they envisioned it and they saw people not logging in and not playing. Big investment, a lot of time and money. So they made changes to secure the game.

I’ve been here since the first beta, and I see why it was done…but it wasn’t done yesterday. If it’s not your type of game, that’s fine.

From my point of view (and according to what Anet has been saying) concurrency numbers are growing.

That means more people are liking this than not liking it.

Everyone isn’t a white knight just because they like a game.

fellyn.5083:

funkylovemonkey.3097:

fellyn.5083:

funkylovemonkey.3097:

fellyn.5083:

Where did they ever say they would never add new armor tiers right from the start?

I followed news of GW2 pretty closely before it came out and I don’t remember them saying anywhere that what the game launched with as far as equipment tiers go would be what we’d have forever.

I think a lot of people assumed that would be the case because of GW1 but assumptions do not equate to broken promises.

They explained why they did what they did and it was 100% needed. All of a sudden we have use for the hundreds of thousands of low to mid level crafting materials that literally served no purpose other than leveling up crafting professions before. They also said they had no plans to add more.

I’m not seeing how it’s a problem if you’re actually interested in playing the game and aren’t impatient.

I don’t think it was an unreasonable expectation.

Colin Johanson’s now infamous quote “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

And: "We just don’t want players to grind.”

And, Mike O’Brien from the Manifesto: "“GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs… and force you onto a grinding treadmill…”

To me, those are broken promises.

Here’s Colin last month: “You won’t see legendary armor any time soon, you will see Ascended Armor in 2013 for sure though, yes.”

Which means that not only are we getting the rest of ascended armor to craft, etc… But they already have a legendary tier in mind after ascended. We just won’t see it “soon.” So, probably not until 2014.

None of that says ‘we are not going to add a new tier of weapons and armor to the game ever, end of story’. You assumed that’s what they meant but that is no ones fault but your own for misinterpreting what they said.

We already know exactly what legendary armor will be so that’s a non issue. It’ll be the same as legendary weapons. Same strength as ascended just with fancy skins and the ability to change stats at will. Legendary gear will always be BiS.

P.S. There is very little grind required to get a set of exotic armor which is and will be more than enough to do any piece of content in the game.

At least… until they revamp more dragons. Which I’m not happy about. But that’s for a different thread.

Saying that level 80s will be able to get the best in game gear almost immediately was absolutely a call back to GW1 and is not what ascended represents. Saying there won’t be a Gear Treadmill is saying there won’t be new tiers added, plain and simple. You can quibble but I honestly don’t see how you can say that isn’t a broken promise. That’s what a Gear Treadmill is; adding more tiers.

I have no problem with exotics, I easily equipped 8 characters over the last year in full exotics. And while it’s true you can do all of the content with exotics right now, with a gear treadmill that will change.

The point is they’ve already caved to the people who want a gear treadmill once. And they’ve already added power creep by increasing the power of champions and increasing the difficulty of dragons. Once the gear-treadmill crowd gets their ascended armor they’re going to start calling for more, and eventually with the power creep in game, Exotic gear just isn’t going to cut it. Even if we’re all still level 80, eventually you’re going to need ascended or whatever tier is after that to compete in the endgame. And if you don’t get on the gear treadmill you won’t be able to participate in whatever content is going to get the Teq. treatment. Next comes the other dragons and the dungeons, then regular champions, and pretty soon all the mobs have to be updated to compensate for the increase in power we’ve experienced in gear.

And then it starts all over again. Which is not the game I signed up for.

One new tier of armor does not a gear treadmill make.

I’m not white knighting anet here. There is a lot of stuff in this game that I have issue with. Not the least of which is the new Tequatl and proposed future super dragon fights.

I just don’t see the ascended gear stuff as that big of an issue. Or an issue at all, really. People mostly completely exaggerate how “bad” it is to make an ascended weapon to make their argument seem more appealing to others.

Tier is red herring.

All they have to do is raise the level cap — which explicitly said they may do — and you have to grind your level 99 Ascendeds all over again.

Face it, by the end of 2013 GW2 will be a full gear grind MMO with Ascended Armor.

I would also like to add that I’ve been playing the game since the first beta.

I played GW1 for the better part of it’s life too. I started playing that game about a month after it was released so I might be what people would consider a gw1 vet as well.

There are a lot of things I dislike about GW2 and on some days those things outnumber the things I actually like but for the most part I’m still enjoying the game.

I’m really not sure how me saying most people are blowing the ascended items issue way out of proportion makes me a white knight. Since the person who said that was likely referring to me.

I reluctantly have to agree with Vayne.

You may not want to grind mindless content but there’s a very large part of this player base that does. Two weeks from now no one will be fighting Tequatl but there will still be over a hundred players at the Wurm.

Thrumdi.9216:

fellyn.5083:

funkylovemonkey.3097:

fellyn.5083:

funkylovemonkey.3097:

fellyn.5083:

Where did they ever say they would never add new armor tiers right from the start?

I followed news of GW2 pretty closely before it came out and I don’t remember them saying anywhere that what the game launched with as far as equipment tiers go would be what we’d have forever.

I think a lot of people assumed that would be the case because of GW1 but assumptions do not equate to broken promises.

They explained why they did what they did and it was 100% needed. All of a sudden we have use for the hundreds of thousands of low to mid level crafting materials that literally served no purpose other than leveling up crafting professions before. They also said they had no plans to add more.

I’m not seeing how it’s a problem if you’re actually interested in playing the game and aren’t impatient.

I don’t think it was an unreasonable expectation.

Colin Johanson’s now infamous quote “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

And: "We just don’t want players to grind.”

And, Mike O’Brien from the Manifesto: "“GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs… and force you onto a grinding treadmill…”

To me, those are broken promises.

Here’s Colin last month: “You won’t see legendary armor any time soon, you will see Ascended Armor in 2013 for sure though, yes.”

Which means that not only are we getting the rest of ascended armor to craft, etc… But they already have a legendary tier in mind after ascended. We just won’t see it “soon.” So, probably not until 2014.

None of that says ‘we are not going to add a new tier of weapons and armor to the game ever, end of story’. You assumed that’s what they meant but that is no ones fault but your own for misinterpreting what they said.

We already know exactly what legendary armor will be so that’s a non issue. It’ll be the same as legendary weapons. Same strength as ascended just with fancy skins and the ability to change stats at will. Legendary gear will always be BiS.

P.S. There is very little grind required to get a set of exotic armor which is and will be more than enough to do any piece of content in the game.

At least… until they revamp more dragons. Which I’m not happy about. But that’s for a different thread.

Saying that level 80s will be able to get the best in game gear almost immediately was absolutely a call back to GW1 and is not what ascended represents. Saying there won’t be a Gear Treadmill is saying there won’t be new tiers added, plain and simple. You can quibble but I honestly don’t see how you can say that isn’t a broken promise. That’s what a Gear Treadmill is; adding more tiers.

I have no problem with exotics, I easily equipped 8 characters over the last year in full exotics. And while it’s true you can do all of the content with exotics right now, with a gear treadmill that will change.

The point is they’ve already caved to the people who want a gear treadmill once. And they’ve already added power creep by increasing the power of champions and increasing the difficulty of dragons. Once the gear-treadmill crowd gets their ascended armor they’re going to start calling for more, and eventually with the power creep in game, Exotic gear just isn’t going to cut it. Even if we’re all still level 80, eventually you’re going to need ascended or whatever tier is after that to compete in the endgame. And if you don’t get on the gear treadmill you won’t be able to participate in whatever content is going to get the Teq. treatment. Next comes the other dragons and the dungeons, then regular champions, and pretty soon all the mobs have to be updated to compensate for the increase in power we’ve experienced in gear.

And then it starts all over again. Which is not the game I signed up for.

One new tier of armor does not a gear treadmill make.

I’m not white knighting anet here. There is a lot of stuff in this game that I have issue with. Not the least of which is the new Tequatl and proposed future super dragon fights.

I just don’t see the ascended gear stuff as that big of an issue. Or an issue at all, really. People mostly completely exaggerate how “bad” it is to make an ascended weapon to make their argument seem more appealing to others.

Tier is red herring.

All they have to do is raise the level cap — which explicitly said they may do — and you have to grind your level 99 Ascendeds all over again.

Face it, by the end of 2013 GW2 will be a full gear grind MMO with Ascended Armor.

Bring it on.

I’ve actually gotten to where I enjoy the dailies (although I don’t fret if I skip a day) but agree with the rest of the OP.

ANet will be very happy to have you around OP — as long as you are content with the content that was in the game at launch, and don’t care too much about the content that was in at launch that has been replaced. If you buy gems, it’s a bonus. If you want more fun things to do, though, don’t expect them to listen. You’re not one of the cool kids.

Galphar.3901:

The biggest complaint those of us that are GW vets have is that the new armor not only has a new LOOK but also better STATS. When Anet released Factions the new armor didn’t have any better stats than the armor we could get in Prophecies, it just required different materials for the new look. The “top” armor in GW all the way through EotN was Obsidian armor. The reason for this was not because if better stats but because it was the hardest to make. You had to farm UW for Ectos and then you had to run FoW to go to the place to craft it. As said before, I never got any Obsidian Armor on any of my Toons and I played all the way through Eotn.

as with weapons, legendary armor will have same stats as ascended. and most likely same function as legendary weapons atm
Hopefully Lgendary Gear will be like the Obsidian Armor in GW; New look same stats as Ascended gear just harder to get the Mats for and to create.

Serophous.9085:

as with weapons, legendary armor will have same stats as ascended. and most likely same function as legendary weapons atm
Hopefully Lgendary Gear will be like the Obsidian Armor in GW; New look same stats as Ascended gear just harder to get the Mats for and to create.

You mean the refining of the mats will be harder in terms of the patience required not to just throw your keyboard out the window and shout “why do i have to wait another day to do this again!!!!”

champ.7021:

Serophous.9085:

as with weapons, legendary armor will have same stats as ascended. and most likely same function as legendary weapons atm
Hopefully Lgendary Gear will be like the Obsidian Armor in GW; New look same stats as Ascended gear just harder to get the Mats for and to create.

You mean the refining of the mats will be harder in terms of the patience required not to just throw your keyboard out the window and shout “why do i have to wait another day to do this again!!!!”

no idea, that is going to depend on how precursors are going to be crafted first.

IndigoSundown.5419:

ANet will be very happy to have you around OP — as long as you are content with the content that was in the game at launch, and don’t care too much about the content that was in at launch that has been replaced. If you buy gems, it’s a bonus. If you want more fun things to do, though, don’t expect them to listen. You’re not one of the cool kids.

So are you saying nothing fun to do has been added to the game? Because I seem to have found some fun things to do. I think Sanctum Sprint is a fun thing to do (and it wasn’t in the game at launch).

And before people launch into a tirade about minigames..minigames were always meant to be a part of the mix. It’s true that it’s different minigames than they originally announced, but surely some people who bought this game were looking forward to those mini games.

I also quite like Southsun Survival. I loved the entire Bazaar of the Four Winds. I don’t love Super Adventure box, but then I don’t feel like I have to love everything.

And a lot of people do like this Tequatl thing, even if it’s not really my cup of tea. Some people like the Scarlet Invasions. Some people like champion farming. They find that fun (don’t ask me why).

Fun things to do doesn’t mean things that any one player thinks is fun. Hell, some people even like the Moa Races.

Few things op.

1. Gear does not outweigh skill in pve or wvw. If you compare Masterwork to exotic or asc, yeah you see the difference but exotic is accessible by almost limitless ways, you aren’t obligated to get the next tier.

2. Asc weapons are hardly any better than exotics. Legendaries following that same statement, because they are skins not stat bonuses. From recent updates, they are also now a QoL item because they take soo much effort to make. I play this game almost daily and I put no work on a legendary, nor do I feel weaker for not having one. You aren’t forced to get them.

3. Laurels are really easy to obtain and acquiring them has not been nerfed at all since they were introduced. In fact they were buffed when achievement points mattered and I’ve actually tossed a couple laurles for unid dyes because I’m sitting just under 100. Also laurles aren’t the only way to obtain the ascended trinkets, there is guild missions and fractals. Even if you may dislike fractals, you get a ton of rings from it and even relics to buy the ring of your choosing (requires 10). You don’t need to be hardcore or an elitist to do low level fractals.

If this “work” is too much I’d suggest going to spvp where you don’t have to work on gear at all. You just get titles and duel it out on an even playing field.

Stacking, and running group builds are far more important than ascended gear in wvw. Just sayin

NinjaEd.3946:

2. Asc weapons are hardly any better than exotics. Legendaries following that same statement, because they are skins not stat bonuses. From recent updates, they are also now a QoL item because they take soo much effort to make. I play this game almost daily and I put no work on a legendary, nor do I feel weaker for not having one. You aren’t forced to get them.

I think the maths been done enough times to show that the stat difference is enough to warrant some effort to try and obtain ascended. Its not that big of a deal because you can do everything in this game in exotic, the problem is just the idea that someone with more gold than you is inherently more powerful especially when it comes to pugs where might stacking is out of your hands.

champ.7021:

NinjaEd.3946:

2. Asc weapons are hardly any better than exotics. Legendaries following that same statement, because they are skins not stat bonuses. From recent updates, they are also now a QoL item because they take soo much effort to make. I play this game almost daily and I put no work on a legendary, nor do I feel weaker for not having one. You aren’t forced to get them.

I think the maths been done enough times to show that the stat difference is enough to warrant some effort to try and obtain ascended. Its not that big of a deal because you can do everything in this game in exotic, the problem is just the idea that someone with more gold than you is inherently more powerful especially when it comes to pugs where might stacking is out of your hands.

They may be better but like you said, this game can be done with exotics. Anet never balanced the dungeons around everyone having full ascended, even with the revamps of some paths I can pull a 40 pug into AC exp mode and do any path. It’s all about player skill, some thing not everyone has yet grasped.

If ascended was drastically stronger than exotics then this would be entirely different. Currently the only place that really calls for high end gear is high level fractals where trash mobs are essentially bosses on their own. But even there after a certain point your gear is meaningless because your utility outweighs your defensive stats (walls, burst healing, blocking, blind, etc). Doesn’t mean run naked, but whether you’re at 3k armor or 2.5k armor, you will get 1 shotted by that hammer dude, and possibly the legendary shaman arrow (if you add the burn). .

NinjaEd.3946:

They may be better but like you said, this game can be done with exotics. Anet never balanced the dungeons around everyone having full ascended, even with the revamps of some paths I can pull a 40 pug into AC exp mode and do any path. It’s all about player skill, some thing not everyone has yet grasped.

If ascended was drastically stronger than exotics then this would be entirely different. Currently the only place that really calls for high end gear is high level fractals where trash mobs are essentially bosses on their own. But even there after a certain point your gear is meaningless because your utility outweighs your defensive stats (walls, burst healing, blocking, blind, etc). Doesn’t mean run naked, but whether you’re at 3k armor or 2.5k armor, you will get 1 shotted by that hammer dude, and possibly the legendary shaman arrow (if you add the burn). .

then why have ascended. Im not saying the problem is in the application of it that one will be at a major disadvantage without ascended weapons im trying to say the idea of them is one that goes against the games philosophy and what players want to see in the game. If they dont add anything they shouldnt be in the game yet for some reason they are and for some reason people are getting them.

champ.7021:

then why have ascended. Im not saying the problem is in the application of it that one will be at a major disadvantage without ascended weapons im trying to say the idea of them is one that goes against the games philosophy and what players want to see in the game. If they dont add anything they shouldnt be in the game yet for some reason they are and for some reason people are getting them.

Well back when ascended was first introduced, a couple topics were made on that exact thinking. There was 1 post that I found to make the most sense justifying it, and that was there was no level 80 armor. You can get exotics at 60, so where was the 80 tier? They didn’t implement it in neatly since it was exclusive to fractals and fractals only but slowly they are making more methods to get them, trying to go back to the “play the way you want to” philosophy. I still wouldn’t say it’s perfect or remotely great but its acceptable to most. Many of my guildies refuse to do anything pve(excluding guild missions) at all yet they have full ascended trinkets. Most of them got the trinkets from laurels, some from guild missions.

Asc weapons can be found or crafted. Although its not exactly worth holding your breathe for that drop, it can happen. Also asc weapons are something for those left task less, something to work on. Aside from living story content, there ain’t much to do at end game(8.6k ap’s, got all the skins I want after looking at galleries). No boarders have been expanded, so something as long and difficult to craft as an ascended weapon and eventually armor atleast gives something to work on. I may statistically be stronger but I wouldn’t try to solo the troll in AC exp mode with full asc. Not because I think its impossible, but because I know I would screw up somewhere along the fight (back to the skill exceeding stats). I can’t justify something I never added, I don’t work for anet. But from someone who has done high end fractals, every dungeon path, and almost all the living story, I can’t say ascended has made me any stronger or made anything noticeable easier. Agony resistance being the only exception because, well, it was made to be that way.

NinjaEd.3946:

champ.7021:

NinjaEd.3946:

2. Asc weapons are hardly any better than exotics. Legendaries following that same statement, because they are skins not stat bonuses. From recent updates, they are also now a QoL item because they take soo much effort to make. I play this game almost daily and I put no work on a legendary, nor do I feel weaker for not having one. You aren’t forced to get them.

I think the maths been done enough times to show that the stat difference is enough to warrant some effort to try and obtain ascended. Its not that big of a deal because you can do everything in this game in exotic, the problem is just the idea that someone with more gold than you is inherently more powerful especially when it comes to pugs where might stacking is out of your hands.

They may be better but like you said, this game can be done with exotics. Anet never balanced the dungeons around everyone having full ascended, even with the revamps of some paths I can pull a 40 pug into AC exp mode and do any path. It’s all about player skill, some thing not everyone has yet grasped.

If ascended was drastically stronger than exotics then this would be entirely different. Currently the only place that really calls for high end gear is high level fractals where trash mobs are essentially bosses on their own. But even there after a certain point your gear is meaningless because your utility outweighs your defensive stats (walls, burst healing, blocking, blind, etc). Doesn’t mean run naked, but whether you’re at 3k armor or 2.5k armor, you will get 1 shotted by that hammer dude, and possibly the legendary shaman arrow (if you add the burn). .

Ascended weapons definitely make a difference in WvW. Everyone I’ve talked to who has one says they can see a noticeable increase in damage.

This is a fundamental change to a PvP mode that launched with what was essentially a level playing field (after a short level up to 80). It will be even worse when Ascended Armor is introduced.

You can agree or disagree, but what we have now is a completely different product.

NinjaEd.3946:

Well back when ascended was first introduced, a couple topics were made on that exact thinking. There was 1 post that I found to make the most sense justifying it, and that was there was no level 80 armor. You can get exotics at 60, so where was the 80 tier? They didn’t implement it in neatly since it was exclusive to fractals and fractals only but slowly they are making more methods to get them, trying to go back to the “play the way you want to” philosophy. I still wouldn’t say it’s perfect or remotely great but its acceptable to most. Many of my guildies refuse to do anything pve(excluding guild missions) at all yet they have full ascended trinkets. Most of them got the trinkets from laurels, some from guild missions.

Asc weapons can be found or crafted. Although its not exactly worth holding your breathe for that drop, it can happen. Also asc weapons are something for those left task less, something to work on. Aside from living story content, there ain’t much to do at end game(8.6k ap’s, got all the skins I want after looking at galleries). No boarders have been expanded, so something as long and difficult to craft as an ascended weapon and eventually armor atleast gives something to work on. I may statistically be stronger but I wouldn’t try to solo the troll in AC exp mode with full asc. Not because I think its impossible, but because I know I would screw up somewhere along the fight.

I was going to hope for a drop till i saw you cant choose your stats which is just so f……
Also what do you mean there was no level 80 armor. I worked for a very long time trying to get the t3 armor my characters walk around in. i also worked for the skins they carry. Why should i work more just because Anet is too lazy to introduce some permanent areas?? I dont get the justification at all especially since ascended weapons arent hard to get (for me) i just dont want to get them because it would mean investing more into just one or two characters like i did with trinkets which i dont like.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

1. I will probably never have a legendary, now that you’ve nerfed karma. I toyed with the idea pre nerf, but imagine my surprise when I started getting karma vials from completing dailies a few days after I spent most of my karma on temple armor. I will not grind 2000+ events and/or dungeons. I left that other MMO precisely because of this type of treadmill/grind.

2. I will never have ascended trinkets. I’m sitting on 62 laurels, but I am loath to spend them because I have multiple characters and I never know what wonderful changes you will implement next. I don’t want to be caught in a situation like I was with karma points, where I spend most of laurels and then you implement some change that makes them more difficult to get or they become necessary to obtain even better items. In addition to this, I only do dailies if they correspond to whatever I’m doing that day. I don’t log in to do chores, ANet.

3. I will never have ascended weapons. That is, unless the required mats build up in my bags through daily activity and leveling crafting isn’t cost prohibitive. As it stands now, leveling that one crafting discipline is cost prohibitive for me.

4. I will never have ascended armor, for reasons stated in point 3.

5. And because of 1-4, I will never participate in WvW because being at a constant disadvantage when playing against other people isn’t fun.

I log in to have fun, ANet. Not to do daily chores, not to grind, not to chase more powerful, and required gear…I log in to have fun. When I bought your game, you led me to the impression that the best gear would be easy to get at level 80, so I could spend my time doing whatever I wanted. Looks like I was wrong.

Has your philosophy regarding the type of player you’d like to retain, changed as well?

OP i think you and i have a lot in common, and i believe we are not the type of Customer Guildwars 2 are aiming this “Game” at, sadly i wish i’d known this before i pre ordered it.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

ANet will be very happy to have you around OP — as long as you are content with the content that was in the game at launch, and don’t care too much about the content that was in at launch that has been replaced. If you buy gems, it’s a bonus. If you want more fun things to do, though, don’t expect them to listen. You’re not one of the cool kids.

So are you saying nothing fun to do has been added to the game? Because I seem to have found some fun things to do. I think Sanctum Sprint is a fun thing to do (and it wasn’t in the game at launch).

And before people launch into a tirade about minigames..minigames were always meant to be a part of the mix. It’s true that it’s different minigames than they originally announced, but surely some people who bought this game were looking forward to those mini games.

I also quite like Southsun Survival. I loved the entire Bazaar of the Four Winds. I don’t love Super Adventure box, but then I don’t feel like I have to love everything.

And a lot of people do like this Tequatl thing, even if it’s not really my cup of tea. Some people like the Scarlet Invasions. Some people like champion farming. They find that fun (don’t ask me why).

Fun things to do doesn’t mean things that any one player thinks is fun. Hell, some people even like the Moa Races.

Did you read the OP? I did.

Mirta.5029:

Coffee.7058:

It doesn’t seem like MMO’s fit you — try another style of game because <<O=grinding something ALWAYS, that’s half the fun for many.

I would disagree. There’s no real need for grind in MMOs and that’s why MMOs now try to minimize that. Speaking about that though GW2 is very not grindy.
I, myself, never thought that I could ever afford a legendary. Saved up some money. Started working towards what I called “a poor man’s legendary”. Took me about 3 months. Because I didn’t buy everything at once I did not even notice how much money I’ve spent. In those 3 months I probably got and spent about 500-600 gold. You CAN get it. Just focus on it and work towards it.
Speaking about that though I do disagree with the karma nerf. For one thing now you get zero karma for running dungeons and that’s the exact activity that I enjoy participating in.

Yep, not for you.

Coffee.7058:

Conncept.7638:

Coffee.7058:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

1. I will probably never have a legendary, now that you’ve nerfed karma. I toyed with the idea pre nerf, but imagine my surprise when I started getting karma vials from completing dailies a few days after I spent most of my karma on temple armor. I will not grind 2000+ events and/or dungeons. I left that other MMO precisely because of this type of treadmill/grind.

2. I will never have ascended trinkets. I’m sitting on 62 laurels, but I am loath to spend them because I have multiple characters and I never know what wonderful changes you will implement next. I don’t want to be caught in a situation like I was with karma points, where I spend most of laurels and then you implement some change that makes them more difficult to get or they become necessary to obtain even better items. In addition to this, I only do dailies if they correspond to whatever I’m doing that day. I don’t log in to do chores, ANet.

3. I will never have ascended weapons. That is, unless the required mats build up in my bags through daily activity and leveling crafting isn’t cost prohibitive. As it stands now, leveling that one crafting discipline is cost prohibitive for me.

4. I will never have ascended armor, for reasons stated in point 3.

5. And because of 1-4, I will never participate in WvW because being at a constant disadvantage when playing against other people isn’t fun.

I log in to have fun, ANet. Not to do daily chores, not to grind, not to chase more powerful, and required gear…I log in to have fun. When I bought your game, you led me to the impression that the best gear would be easy to get at level 80, so I could spend my time doing whatever I wanted. Looks like I was wrong.

Has your philosophy regarding the type of player you’d like to retain, changed as well?

It doesn’t seem like MMO’s fit you — try another style of game because <<O=grinding something ALWAYS, that’s half the fun for many.

Bullcrap, it’s a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. It is an RPG, within a massive world of other RPers, nothing more, there is no requirement for grind or farming for the genre to apply.

mmo
Web definitions
A massively multiplayer online game. A computer game in which a large number of players can simultaneously interact in a persistent world; A massively multiplayer online role-playing game

Lets’s analyze this shall we?

What I said//What the definition said

• ’it’s a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game’ // ‘A massively multiplayer online game’
• ‘within a massive world of other RPers’ // ‘in which a large number of players can simultaneously interact in a persistent world’
• ‘A Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game’ // ‘A massively multiplayer online role-playing game’

Other than using the term Role Playing once more than the definition, and rightfully labeling your post at as bulIcrap, I practically quoted it. And there is not a single word about farm or grind or gated content anywhere, as I said.

Did you even read my post, or the definition of what you were posting, before you posted it? Do you ever bother to read anything before you respond for that matter?

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Odokuro.5049:

What I get from your post is that you DO NOT want to work for anything, because to you working towards gear/items ect. = grind/treadmilling.

Work? This is a game.

I want to spend time getting better at the professions I enjoy playing rather than spending time getting gear so I can compete. Is that so terrible?

Agreed again OP, seems to be a running trend in MMO lately that unless you are doing content that requires a Frustratingly tedious amount of boring grind you aren’t enjoying yourself.. as MMORPG’s are supposedly designed to be..

Which is complete BS obviously but Companies don’t want you enjoying yourself, they want you to hang around long enough to throw money at them.

You guys say you just want to have fun in the game but what exactly is it that you want to do?

None of you guys have said what your idea of fun is you’ve just kittened that the game is to grindy and that you don’t want to do anything but you should be rewarding for doing it.

fellyn.5083:

You guys say you just want to have fun in the game but what exactly is it that you want to do?

None of you guys have said what your idea of fun is you’ve just kittened that the game is to grindy and that you don’t want to do anything but you should be rewarding for doing it.

Here it is:

new dungeons that are fun and some new dungeons on par with Arah
New areas like Crystal Desert and Cantha
Continuation of Personal Storyline which intertwines with LS and is actually intricate so you have to follow along.
New weapons and skills
New Races
New classes

These are the things i would like to do. ATM all i do is dungeons but i want gw2 to expand out from just being a singular world. I feel like Anet lost alot of the ambition they had in gw1 (oh no i mentioned gw1 crucify me now)

champ.7021:

fellyn.5083:

You guys say you just want to have fun in the game but what exactly is it that you want to do?

None of you guys have said what your idea of fun is you’ve just kittened that the game is to grindy and that you don’t want to do anything but you should be rewarding for doing it.

Here it is:

new dungeons that are fun and some new dungeons on par with Arah
New areas like Crystal Desert and Cantha
Continuation of Personal Storyline which intertwines with LS and is actually intricate so you have to follow along.
New weapons and skills
New Races
New classes

These are the things i would like to do. ATM all i do is dungeons but i want gw2 to expand out from just being a singular world. I feel like Anet lost alot of the ambition they had in gw1 (oh no i mentioned gw1 crucify me now)

That doesn’t really answer my question though. We all want those things but what people are complaining about in this thread are completely different issues, if you want to call it that.

Maybe people are upset at the idea that after putting in work already to get gear they have to do it again to be bis, Even though they would rather be out actually playing and having fun. Also maybe there upset because Anet is focussing on these weapons and soon the armor rather than trying to implement the things i listed out. You asked what you want to do and what i want to do is to experience all the things i listed and i want to see those things extended. Right now i have given up on new classes because i already have 4 and thats too much to handle with ascended weapon/ trinkets and good looking skins. I have given up on LS because it just isnt interesting because its in the same old world i know and it doesnt extend much farther than that. Im sorry if i misunderstood your point but at least i didnt assume that people who are against grinds want something for nothing

Vayne.8563:

snippet
So are you saying nothing fun to do has been added to the game?

For me, I wouldn’t say so. I came into GW2 with the hopes of highly customizable and hopefully challenging content. These were facets I enjoyed greatly when I was into GW1, and although it wasn’t too difficult there was still loads of ways to play it. GW2 hasn’t been anywhere near as challenging as GW1, and it certainly lacks the variety it had as well.

This is not to say I consider the price I bought it at to be wasted. It was fun, the dungeons were fun, the quests were fun, exploring through areas was fun, some of the updates were fun (sans the ones I missed, yay temp content), there is loads of fun to be had. I just don’t think any of it holds any replay value. While this is usually the case with PvE, there’ve been many other games that I’ve found fulfilling for a much longer period of time.

So in regards to the OP, I’m in a very similar situation: The mountain of tasks I’d have to do is not encouraging in the slightest, as such I’m fairly positive I’ll never get any of this new gear. Won’t be an issue if I’m not enjoying the game anymore, of course, but it was nice having those sixteen pieces of gear be BiS while it lasted. And should they add something that does pique my interest, I won’t have to go through any ‘resubscribing’ process.

champ.7021:

Maybe people are upset at the idea that after putting in work already to get gear they have to do it again to be bis, Even though they would rather be out actually playing and having fun. Also maybe there upset because Anet is focussing on these weapons and soon the armor rather than trying to implement the things i listed out. You asked what you want to do and what i want to do is to experience all the things i listed and i want to see those things extended. Right now i have given up on new classes because i already have 4 and thats too much to handle with ascended weapon/ trinkets and good looking skins. I have given up on LS because it just isnt interesting because its in the same old world i know and it doesnt extend much farther than that. Im sorry if i misunderstood your point but at least i didnt assume that people who are against grinds want something for nothing

Except for it didn’t take that much effort to get into a full set of exotics.

I’ve been playing since day -3 and it took me less than 2 weeks of play to get to 80 and into a full set of exotic gear.

That was before there was millions of of crafting materials on the market or people were as efficient at running dungeons as they are now. And the dungeon token rewards were buffed massively.

The last character I made last month took the same two weeks to get to get to 80 and in a full set of exotics with a full set of ascended accessories. But actual play time was much much less. Less than half the amount of time it took for my first character.

I’m just not buying the claims that the game is all that grindy outside of legendary stuff.

" Even though they would rather be out actually playing and having fun. "

This is the part I’m questioning. What are these people doing to “have fun” that is not rewarding them with any sort of materials to make ascended weapons or ascended trinkets?

Ascended materials were put into literally every part of the game except for spvp. You have to go out of your way at this point to not get ascended materials. I just don’t understand.

fellyn.5083:

champ.7021:

Maybe people are upset at the idea that after putting in work already to get gear they have to do it again to be bis, Even though they would rather be out actually playing and having fun. Also maybe there upset because Anet is focussing on these weapons and soon the armor rather than trying to implement the things i listed out. You asked what you want to do and what i want to do is to experience all the things i listed and i want to see those things extended. Right now i have given up on new classes because i already have 4 and thats too much to handle with ascended weapon/ trinkets and good looking skins. I have given up on LS because it just isnt interesting because its in the same old world i know and it doesnt extend much farther than that. Im sorry if i misunderstood your point but at least i didnt assume that people who are against grinds want something for nothing

Except for it didn’t take that much effort to get into a full set of exotics.

I’ve been playing since day -3 and it took me less than 2 weeks of play to get to 80 and into a full set of exotic gear.

That was before there was millions of of crafting materials on the market or people were as efficient at running dungeons as they are now. And the dungeon token rewards were buffed massively.

The last character I made last month took the same two weeks to get to get to 80 and in a full set of exotics with a full set of ascended accessories. But actual play time was much much less. Less than half the amount of time it took for my first character.

I’m just not buying the claims that the game is all that grindy outside of legendary stuff.

" Even though they would rather be out actually playing and having fun. "

This is the part I’m questioning. What are these people doing to “have fun” that is not rewarding them with any sort of materials to make ascended weapons or ascended trinkets?

Ascended materials were put into literally every part of the game except for spvp. You have to go out of your way at this point to not get ascended materials. I just don’t understand.

Its pretty simple. Its been a year into the game. Exotics are easy to get i grant you that (good looking ones however are not that easy) but its been a year and this is no time to make people get new gear. I also dont see what you dont understand about wanting to have fun instead of getting ascended. I dont like doing wold bosses or temples but i would have to to get enough dragonite ore. Also i would have to farm them like crazy to get enough mats to get ascended for all the characters i play (many still dont have full ascended trinkets). The problem is more is it necessary and should it be in the game rather than is it manageable.

I understand what you are saying but for me i will not make ascended weapons until its the last thing i have to do in the game because i dont think it should be there and i dont think people should be making them in the first place.

fellyn.5083:

champ.7021:

fellyn.5083:

You guys say you just want to have fun in the game but what exactly is it that you want to do?

None of you guys have said what your idea of fun is you’ve just kittened that the game is to grindy and that you don’t want to do anything but you should be rewarding for doing it.

Here it is:

new dungeons that are fun and some new dungeons on par with Arah
New areas like Crystal Desert and Cantha
Continuation of Personal Storyline which intertwines with LS and is actually intricate so you have to follow along.
New weapons and skills
New Races
New classes

These are the things i would like to do. ATM all i do is dungeons but i want gw2 to expand out from just being a singular world. I feel like Anet lost alot of the ambition they had in gw1 (oh no i mentioned gw1 crucify me now)

That doesn’t really answer my question though. We all want those things but what people are complaining about in this thread are completely different issues, if you want to call it that.

That does answer your question though. We’re upset that Anet is putting resources into temporary content revolving around farming, grinding and the introduction of new tiers. It’s why so many of us are upset at the idea that there won’t be any expansions for Guild Wars 2. Because expansions add new areas, new stories, new quests. They add new skills and new professions and races. This is a replacement for that. A cheap way to keep us busy doing the same thing over and over again, killing the same bosses and farming the same champions, and giving us the illusion of content while actually only increasing a few numbers.

I want story. I want to explore new skills and weapons, continents and cities, new races and new builds.

What I don’t want to do is farm for a month so I can get a 15% increase in damage so Anet can then increase the armor of the mobs 15% to compensate and then increase my armor 15% so the damage output of monsters can then be increased 15% on and on for the next several years.

Well this is interesting.

I used to see these exact arguments in other MMOs, in which just about every single one of them in my opinion is a far steeper grind than this game.

But that is again my opinion, so instead of going down that route I should instead ask everyone here one question:

What do you play Guild Wars 2 for?

The gear? The minigames? Dungeons? WvW? SPvP? Roleplaying? Simple Interaction with guildmates and friends or exploration? Perhaps you are here to just see what Arenanet might throw out in two weeks, a rather impressive way to go about making the world slightly more different every few weeks or so. But I digress, the simple matter is that we all play and continue to play this game for many reasons.

And there really is NOT a need to feel pressure at all, from doing any aspect in this game. OP I am rather unsure where you get the idea that you need ascended gear to succeed in WvW, anyone seriously pushing for that is rather naive, since success in WvW comes from good communication, tactics and fighting. In fact one could say there is far TOO much to do in any single day, I have played many MMOs yet while I consider myself a hard-core player I can’t do everything I want to do in this game in a single day, week, or even month! All of it is enjoyable yet I have to make choices each day on what I want to do!

‘Southsun Survival is today?! Woot I can do that for a few hours- wait Shatterer is up I should go over there- Guild missions right now?! Nooooo!’

It has been a very long time since I was so refreshed playing an MMO, it doesn’t matter really people what you or your friends want to invest in this game, it is quite apparent Arenanet is at least trying to put effort hitting all the potential audiences to get them to play.

You can tell simply by the amount of work they do for Super Adventure Box, an open-world minigame WITHIN a game, with its own mechanics and reliance on puzzle-solving! Its deviation from how the GW2 real game is so profoundly different yet they put that much work into it because they actually care for the various things involved in this game. They care enough for the fans of Super Adventure Box to keep going forward with it, they cared enough about the World Boss difficulty, about the former stagnation of certain bosses from a simple auto-attack spam to a bit more engagement…to change things around. (It is an entirely different discussion with concern to World Boss difficulty…)

My point being, rather than asking Arenanet ‘Am I the type of player you want?’ you should be asking ‘What other players haven’t you covered yet?’.

Because I am pretty kitten sure they are trying to hit all the bases, and based on their success thus far they are doing a kitten good job considering! Sure, we can talk about issues all we want, but for now I can definitely say you are one of the types of players Arenanet wants to keep.

- Jornosh, Suicidal Warrior of [One].

No it doesn’t answer the question. You guys keep giving a wishlist of things you want to see in the future. Not saying what you’re doing in the game now that you consider fun.

So here is my question again and I’ll make it easier for you to read:

WHAT ARE YOU WANTING TO DO THAT YOU CONSIDER FUN IN THE GAME RIGHT THIS VERY MINUTE?

I’m not asking for your wishlist of things you’d like to do or things you want to see put into the game. I’m asking what you’re doing right this very moment that you consider fun.

I play the game to have fun too. I don’t farm. I haven’t farmed a single thing in the entire last year the game has been out. I gather when I run by something that can be gathered. I do dungeons when I feel like it. I do open world events when I feel like it. I do wvw when I feel like it. I repeat, I haven’t grinded once and coincidentally I had fun the entire fun.

I should also add that I’ve made 2 ascended weapons and have enough materials to make a third.

What I’m confused about is how you can play this game and not stumble into a piece of content that doesn’t reward you with something that can be used to make an ascended weapon.

If you’re playing the game purely for fun and not avoiding dungeons, wvw, jumping puzzles, open world bosses, orr temples, and world exploration eventually you’re going to get enough materials to make a weapon. Eventually you’ll have enough laurels to get some accessories or pristine relics to get a ring that you want.

You guys are avoiding the answer to the question just like you’re somehow magically avoiding every source of ascended materials in the game to come to the conclusion that getting ascended stuff is grindy.

If you force yourself to do it then yes it can be grindy. If you just be patient and have fun while playing the game and don’t go out of your way to do it then it’s not.

fellyn.5083:

Ascended materials were put into literally every part of the game except for spvp. You have to go out of your way at this point to not get ascended materials. I just don’t understand.

Is there any new content I’d have to experience once through to acquire said materials? Or would I have to replay content that I’ve exhausted months ago? If “no” and “yes” I can definitely understand why people can feel as if they’re running into “grind”.

Might be worth mentioning that I’m not a huge fan of WvW either.

fellyn.5083:

Except for it didn’t take that much effort to get into a full set of exotics.

I’ve been playing since day -3 and it took me less than 2 weeks of play to get to 80 and into a full set of exotic gear.

2 weeks is easy for the average gamer, right?

fellyn.5083:

What this guy says is true. I’m 85% give or take map completion with full CoF set + greatsword + axe/sword and I have around 280 hours played (sad).

Dated 18/09/2012, equating to about 11 hours per day.

fellyn.5083:

So 30+ hours and around 100 runs in a dungeon wasn’t enough of an investment in a dungeon to get gear before? They want it to take longer and be more tedious?
…
Good thing I already farmed everything I needed from CoF.

Hmm…..

Sykper.6583:

It has been a very long time since I was so refreshed playing an MMO, it doesn’t matter really people what you or your friends want to invest in this game, it is quite apparent Arenanet is at least trying to put effort hitting all the potential audiences to get them to play.

- Jornosh, Suicidal Warrior of [One].

And that’s where the failure is.

You aren’t ever going to please everyone. Ever. It doesn’t happen. When I played GW1 back in 06/07, EVERYONE I knew, besides my dad who gave me his account, told me GW1 was crap, was garbage, was the worst MMO ever. Of course. That was Gw1. But my point should be more than obvious.

Look at WoW. Most popular MMO right now, still strong after a decade and.. Not everyone likes it. Hell, the playerbase doesn’t like many aspects of it. Agreed to be the most successful, yes. By numbers, the most popular. But not necessarily by positive opinion. If arena net intends to succeed, they need to niche-market. Or they can enjoy sinking like a stone. That works too.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Sykper.6583:

It has been a very long time since I was so refreshed playing an MMO, it doesn’t matter really people what you or your friends want to invest in this game, it is quite apparent Arenanet is at least trying to put effort hitting all the potential audiences to get them to play.

- Jornosh, Suicidal Warrior of [One].

And that’s where the failure is.

You aren’t ever going to please everyone. Ever. It doesn’t happen. When I played GW1 back in 06/07, EVERYONE I knew, besides my dad who gave me his account, told me GW1 was crap, was garbage, was the worst MMO ever. Of course. That was Gw1. But my point should be more than obvious.

Look at WoW. Most popular MMO right now, still strong after a decade and.. Not everyone likes it. Hell, the playerbase doesn’t like many aspects of it. Agreed to be the most successful, yes. By numbers, the most popular. But not necessarily by positive opinion. If arena net intends to succeed, they need to niche-market. Or they can enjoy sinking like a stone. That works too.

I don’t know where you get your information from. Most niche MMOs fail too. Very few MMOs success at all, in the big sense of the word.

Guild Wars 1 was more niche than Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 probably has more players than Guild Wars 1 had in its heyday. I’m relatively sure Guild Wars 2 is more successful than Guild Wars 1.

I think there are plenty of people who like enough of the game to keep it going strong indefinitely. That’s not because the game is great mind you, but because they did find a niche audience. A niche audience of achievement hunters. As long as they continue to give those people more achievements, those people will keep playing.

Me, I don’t need or want all those achievements. I do most of them anyway, because that’s what the game has become, but it’s not my preferred play style.

But saying the game will go about of business because it’s doing what it’s doing is probably not true.

BlueZone.4236:

fellyn.5083:

Except for it didn’t take that much effort to get into a full set of exotics.

I’ve been playing since day -3 and it took me less than 2 weeks of play to get to 80 and into a full set of exotic gear.

2 weeks is easy for the average gamer, right?

fellyn.5083:

What this guy says is true. I’m 85% give or take map completion with full CoF set + greatsword + axe/sword and I have around 280 hours played (sad).

Dated 18/09/2012, equating to about 11 hours per day.

fellyn.5083:

So 30+ hours and around 100 runs in a dungeon wasn’t enough of an investment in a dungeon to get gear before? They want it to take longer and be more tedious?
…
Good thing I already farmed everything I needed from CoF.

Hmm…..

Hey! Those are things I said a year ago. Wow!

Game has changed quite drastically since then and so has the time I’m able to invest in playing the game. Not sure how it’s relevant.

fellyn.5083:

BlueZone.4236:

fellyn.5083:

Except for it didn’t take that much effort to get into a full set of exotics.

I’ve been playing since day -3 and it took me less than 2 weeks of play to get to 80 and into a full set of exotic gear.

2 weeks is easy for the average gamer, right?

fellyn.5083:

What this guy says is true. I’m 85% give or take map completion with full CoF set + greatsword + axe/sword and I have around 280 hours played (sad).

Dated 18/09/2012, equating to about 11 hours per day.

fellyn.5083:

So 30+ hours and around 100 runs in a dungeon wasn’t enough of an investment in a dungeon to get gear before? They want it to take longer and be more tedious?
…
Good thing I already farmed everything I needed from CoF.

Hmm…..

Hey! Those are things I said a year ago. Wow!

Game has changed quite drastically since then and so has the time I’m able to invest in playing the game. Not sure how it’s relevant.

It’s relevant to the first quote. You claimed it’s not much effort, so I’m putting perspective for any readers just how much effort that 2 weeks really was.

This kind of “effort” is exactly why you’re finding everything so effortless now:
“Good thing I already farmed everything I needed”

If anything, all this grind (or “grind”), loot nerfs, time gating, etc, are targeted specifically for players such as yourself, only anet, in their infinite wisdom, only “fix” these issues after players like yourself took advantage of the situation, rendering their solution useless.

I’m pretty sure anet said they were going to make ascended weapons a really long while ago, and a lot of people kept asking for ascended weapons, a really lot of people, why the sudden change of mind?

BlueZone.4236:

fellyn.5083:

BlueZone.4236:

fellyn.5083:

Except for it didn’t take that much effort to get into a full set of exotics.

I’ve been playing since day -3 and it took me less than 2 weeks of play to get to 80 and into a full set of exotic gear.

2 weeks is easy for the average gamer, right?

fellyn.5083:

What this guy says is true. I’m 85% give or take map completion with full CoF set + greatsword + axe/sword and I have around 280 hours played (sad).

Dated 18/09/2012, equating to about 11 hours per day.

fellyn.5083:

So 30+ hours and around 100 runs in a dungeon wasn’t enough of an investment in a dungeon to get gear before? They want it to take longer and be more tedious?
…
Good thing I already farmed everything I needed from CoF.

Hmm…..

Hey! Those are things I said a year ago. Wow!

Game has changed quite drastically since then and so has the time I’m able to invest in playing the game. Not sure how it’s relevant.

It’s relevant to the first quote. You claimed it’s not much effort, so I’m putting perspective for any readers just how much effort that 2 weeks really was.

This kind of “effort” is exactly why you’re finding everything so effortless now:
“Good thing I already farmed everything I needed”

If anything, all this grind (or “grind”), loot nerfs, time gating, etc, are targeted specifically for players such as yourself, only anet, in their infinite wisdom, only “fix” these issues after players like yourself took advantage of the situation, rendering their solution useless.

So sorry that I didn’t put the word now at the end of the sentence.

Did you play the game back then? And if you were playing did you do dungeons? Because not only were they much harder and people weren’t as efficient at running them but they were extremely less rewarding than they are now. And not only did we die more back then than the average run does now even with inexperienced people in the group but we weren’t making nearly as much gold either.

Back then it took anywhere from 9 to 19 runs of a dungeon path just for one piece of armor or weapon. Now you can get a piece of armor in 3 runs. The effort to get all of that was massive compared to what it is now.

You might be able to make a point that I did farm CoF back then but I didn’t look at it that way. I had a dedicated group for most of it and I was having fun the entire time so I didn’t see it as a big deal.

And I wasn’t even talking about dungeon armor.

fellyn.5083:

None of that says ‘we are not going to add a new tier of weapons and armor to the game ever, end of story’. You assumed that’s what they meant but that is no ones fault but your own for misinterpreting what they said.

Its not an assumption nor a misinterpretation. If Anet said that by 80 we would have max stat gear then any higher tier of gear introduced would need to be given to all level 80 characters as soon as the tier is introduced for the statement to remain true. Otherwise you would have level 80 characters without max stat gear, which contradicts the statement.

Level up a character right now and tell me that they have max stat gear by level 80.

As to whether or not one can get ascended gear just by playing the game…not completely accurate unless you project the time required out, potentially, into the realm of multiple years.

Crafting is not play for me (and others) this means that the only option for me (and others) to get an ascended weapon is to hope for a drop. Then hope that the drop fits our character/build. If ascended weapons could be traded I might agree with you, but as is it could take years to upgrade my weapon sets on one character.

fellyn.5083:

No it doesn’t answer the question. You guys keep giving a wishlist of things you want to see in the future. Not saying what you’re doing in the game now that you consider fun.

So here is my question again and I’ll make it easier for you to read:

WHAT ARE YOU WANTING TO DO THAT YOU CONSIDER FUN IN THE GAME RIGHT THIS VERY MINUTE?

I’m not asking for your wishlist of things you’d like to do or things you want to see put into the game. I’m asking what you’re doing right this very moment that you consider fun.

I really have no idea what you’re asking. What do I want to do that is already in the game? We’re talking about recent and future updates, not about what I enjoy doing right now.

But what am I doing right now in the game that I think is fun? Nothing. I log in, I do my dailies, I collect my ore, and I log out. It’s a chore, not fun at all, but I do it because I’m hoping that down the road things will change, there will be some sort of more substantial update or expansion that will reward my work. But that’s what it has become; work. When I’m trying to see how fast I can get all those things done and hoping I can log out in less than an hour so I can do something else, that’s a problem and doesn’t bode will for my long term commitment to this game.

The problem isn’t that there aren’t fun things already in the game. The problem is that the fun things are a year old and I’ve killed Maw and Jormag and Shatterer so many times in the last year I honestly couldn’t even begin to estimate. I’ve done world completion five times, with a sixth at 92%. I’ve leveled 8 characters to level 80. I’ve experienced all three paths of the Norn, two of the human paths, and also leveled up a char, asura and sylvari. I’ve tried every profession in the game and leveled up one of each.

And I would be throwing my money at ANET if they released an expansion like they did with Factions or Nightfall or even EOTN.

It’s not a wishlist I would like to see in the future. It’s a wishlist of what I wish Anet had been working on for the last year instead of weapon and armor tiers and temporary content and celebrations. At the one year mark in GW1, Factions was released. With a considerably smaller team working on the game back then as well. Six months after that we had the release of Nightfall. Two full continents, four new professions, thousands of skills, missions and quests. Do you think we’re going to have close to that with GW2 in six months? And that’s despite the fact that GW2 is quite a bit more popular then GW1 was, with a far more extensive gem shop.

My problem is that in the last year of updates, they’ve invested a lot of time on temporary content, a rather threadbare living story, and vertical progression. And it appears the philosophy of Anet has changed from what it was in GW1 and now is like every other MMO on the market; a focus on cheap tricks of vertical progression and an insistence on grinding.

Having ascended weapon seriously does like 1025 dmg instead of 1000 for exotic

I think u can live with it

fellyn.5083:

BlueZone.4236:

fellyn.5083:

BlueZone.4236:

fellyn.5083:

Except for it didn’t take that much effort to get into a full set of exotics.

I’ve been playing since day -3 and it took me less than 2 weeks of play to get to 80 and into a full set of exotic gear.

2 weeks is easy for the average gamer, right?

fellyn.5083:

What this guy says is true. I’m 85% give or take map completion with full CoF set + greatsword + axe/sword and I have around 280 hours played (sad).

Dated 18/09/2012, equating to about 11 hours per day.

fellyn.5083:

So 30+ hours and around 100 runs in a dungeon wasn’t enough of an investment in a dungeon to get gear before? They want it to take longer and be more tedious?
…
Good thing I already farmed everything I needed from CoF.

Hmm…..

Hey! Those are things I said a year ago. Wow!

Game has changed quite drastically since then and so has the time I’m able to invest in playing the game. Not sure how it’s relevant.

It’s relevant to the first quote. You claimed it’s not much effort, so I’m putting perspective for any readers just how much effort that 2 weeks really was.

This kind of “effort” is exactly why you’re finding everything so effortless now:
“Good thing I already farmed everything I needed”

If anything, all this grind (or “grind”), loot nerfs, time gating, etc, are targeted specifically for players such as yourself, only anet, in their infinite wisdom, only “fix” these issues after players like yourself took advantage of the situation, rendering their solution useless.

So sorry that I didn’t put the word now at the end of the sentence.

Did you play the game back then? And if you were playing did you do dungeons? Because not only were they much harder and people weren’t as efficient at running them but they were extremely less rewarding than they are now.

Back then it took anywhere from 9 to 19 runs of a dungeon path just for one piece of armor or weapon. Now you can get a piece of armor in 3 runs. The effort to get all of that was massive compared to what it is now.

And I wasn’t even talking about dungeon armor.

I played the game back then. I was still exploring the outside world in those 2 weeks (can’t remember if I was level 80 by that point or not, most likely not).
Once I hit level 80, I was nowhere near a single exotic.
I’m pretty sure half my equipment was still in greens. Open world loot was terrible back in the day.
I have zero idea on what went on with the dungeons and its rewards. The only thing I do know is the worth of the rewards have been all flipping back and forth because the devs could not make up their minds (and they still can’t at this point in time).

In any case, this is starting to get off topic. I was trying to place into perspective into any readers why you claim it’s all near effortless work by showing them your type of game play style.

FYI, I have farmed a lot these past few patches (pav, scarlet invasion) to the point of mindless grinding so yes, I, too, found it easier to get an ascended weapon because of that.
Guess which one hadn’t been nerfed after it’s first appearance? Answer: None.
I won’t claim it’s little effort, just because I managed to take advantage of these events despite how boring/mindless they all ended up becoming.
Without all that mindless farming, I would not have my ascended weapon today. Also, it wasn’t a satisfying experience or achievement.

I should also say world exploration isn’t very rewarding in terms of loot either (unless there’s been a massive revamp in the past few months), unless you actively go out of your way to collect every mine/tree/event on the way…multiple times.

Funny enough, I still don’t have enough tier 6 mats for a legendary, despite all that farming and roaming! (yes, I’m aware of the TP…)
Not enough hours put in, I guess?

Bismuth.3165:

I’m pretty sure anet said they were going to make ascended weapons a really long while ago, and a lot of people kept asking for ascended weapons, a really lot of people, why the sudden change of mind?

Yeah anet said they wanted it in the game since the beginning. But i dont remember people asking for it. If they did than thats……..

BlueZone.4236:

fellyn.5083:

Except for it didn’t take that much effort to get into a full set of exotics.

I’ve been playing since day -3 and it took me less than 2 weeks of play to get to 80 and into a full set of exotic gear.

2 weeks is easy for the average gamer, right?

fellyn.5083:

What this guy says is true. I’m 85% give or take map completion with full CoF set + greatsword + axe/sword and I have around 280 hours played (sad).

Dated 18/09/2012, equating to about 11 hours per day.

fellyn.5083:

So 30+ hours and around 100 runs in a dungeon wasn’t enough of an investment in a dungeon to get gear before? They want it to take longer and be more tedious?
…
Good thing I already farmed everything I needed from CoF.

Hmm…..

Quoting For Justice!!!

Coffee.7058:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

1. I will probably never have a legendary, now that you’ve nerfed karma. I toyed with the idea pre nerf, but imagine my surprise when I started getting karma vials from completing dailies a few days after I spent most of my karma on temple armor. I will not grind 2000+ events and/or dungeons. I left that other MMO precisely because of this type of treadmill/grind.

2. I will never have ascended trinkets. I’m sitting on 62 laurels, but I am loath to spend them because I have multiple characters and I never know what wonderful changes you will implement next. I don’t want to be caught in a situation like I was with karma points, where I spend most of laurels and then you implement some change that makes them more difficult to get or they become necessary to obtain even better items. In addition to this, I only do dailies if they correspond to whatever I’m doing that day. I don’t log in to do chores, ANet.

3. I will never have ascended weapons. That is, unless the required mats build up in my bags through daily activity and leveling crafting isn’t cost prohibitive. As it stands now, leveling that one crafting discipline is cost prohibitive for me.

4. I will never have ascended armor, for reasons stated in point 3.

5. And because of 1-4, I will never participate in WvW because being at a constant disadvantage when playing against other people isn’t fun.

I log in to have fun, ANet. Not to do daily chores, not to grind, not to chase more powerful, and required gear…I log in to have fun. When I bought your game, you led me to the impression that the best gear would be easy to get at level 80, so I could spend my time doing whatever I wanted. Looks like I was wrong.

Has your philosophy regarding the type of player you’d like to retain, changed as well?

It doesn’t seem like MMO’s fit you — try another style of game because <<O=grinding something ALWAYS, that’s half the fun for many.

Yes, this attitude is why MMOs excel and never lose players…..ROFL

You nailed EXACTLY whats WRONG with MMOs. And they ask themselves why it is so when answer is right in front of their noses.

Oh, and no, its NOT the players fault, its developers fault MMO as a genre loses players. Somehow they think that cloning WoW or making their game more like WoW will produce….something. You really start to wonder, after so many failed MMOs…where all stupidity comes from?

1/ you’ll get your Karma eventually, take your time

2/ I’m extremely casual and yet I’ve got 150 laurels left after decking out 2 characters and buying some t6 mats. This 150 is to deck out any other character I want.

3/ Legendaries are supposed to take time. Karma isn’t going to be the issue. By the time you have the money to get a legendary, you’ll have the karma too.

4/ Ascended weapons … kinda agree. Ascended armor, not so much.

Vayne.8563:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Sykper.6583:

It has been a very long time since I was so refreshed playing an MMO, it doesn’t matter really people what you or your friends want to invest in this game, it is quite apparent Arenanet is at least trying to put effort hitting all the potential audiences to get them to play.

- Jornosh, Suicidal Warrior of [One].

And that’s where the failure is.

You aren’t ever going to please everyone. Ever. It doesn’t happen. When I played GW1 back in 06/07, EVERYONE I knew, besides my dad who gave me his account, told me GW1 was crap, was garbage, was the worst MMO ever. Of course. That was Gw1. But my point should be more than obvious.

Look at WoW. Most popular MMO right now, still strong after a decade and.. Not everyone likes it. Hell, the playerbase doesn’t like many aspects of it. Agreed to be the most successful, yes. By numbers, the most popular. But not necessarily by positive opinion. If arena net intends to succeed, they need to niche-market. Or they can enjoy sinking like a stone. That works too.

I don’t know where you get your information from. Most niche MMOs fail too. Very few MMOs success at all, in the big sense of the word.

Guild Wars 1 was more niche than Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 probably has more players than Guild Wars 1 had in its heyday. I’m relatively sure Guild Wars 2 is more successful than Guild Wars 1.

I think there are plenty of people who like enough of the game to keep it going strong indefinitely. That’s not because the game is great mind you, but because they did find a niche audience. A niche audience of achievement hunters. As long as they continue to give those people more achievements, those people will keep playing.

Me, I don’t need or want all those achievements. I do most of them anyway, because that’s what the game has become, but it’s not my preferred play style.

But saying the game will go about of business because it’s doing what it’s doing is probably not true.

You don’t need to know 8D it’s not of your business in the slightest!

And for the record, I can’t see where you’ve conflicted with me to really try and rule me out in any way or shape or form, to that end. GW1 was niche, yes. GW2 is more successful.. Discussable, but yes. People like the game? Yes. People don’t like the game? Yes. ANet has a niche? A few, yes. You have your own playstyle? Okay I guess. Last line makes no sense.

All I said was they shouldn’t go around opening doors to everyone. Because they’re better of focusing on 100 people who actually love and care about the game, than 1000 people who are just playing till the next big MMO becomes their new candle flame to fly over to. Which. Always. Happens. People did it with Gw2 (they left the MMO they played) – some stayed, some returned, and some did both, or neither. I honestly don’t know what you’re trying to contest.