Guild Wars 2

Lazaar.9123:

Olvendred.3027:

Lazaar.9123:

Well actually, said people that only play them to have fun get bonus rewards anyway, and that happens anyway once you reach the AP cap for the respective achievement, so that argument is fairly irrelevant.

The point is, last year had the same repeatable achievements, but they wern’t absolutely ridiculous like they are this year.

Did you also notice that last year, when the repeatable achievements were more easily achievable, that far more people attempted them… and then far more people complained about how grindy and difficult they were? This year, most people have taken one look and said “lol, nope. I’m not doing all of them.” And so there’s barely been any complaining.

The bonus rewards are 3 presents, which are a fairly minimal reward. Nothing wrong with accompanying that with a fairly minimal amount of AP, imo. Remember, these are meant to be infinite, meaning you never get to the end of the achievement. The only reason the AP is maxed, is that if it weren’t, some players would try and grind out 10k AP during Wintersday. So they set the AP cap at a point higher than any reasonable player would reach… but they do set a cap.

And if the achievements have an AP cap, does that not mean the AP part of it actually is about the achievement hunters? Your opinion is just parroted off other people, who also don’t really know what they’re talking about and just white knight anything they possibly can.

My opinion is my own, arrived at independently. If I come on the forums and find that other people share it, I don’t have a problem with that. I could easily suggest you were parroting arguments from “haters”, who equally don’t know what they’re talking about and complain about everything instead. Pretty pointless thing to start, really.

If the people that enjoy doing it actually do, then they wouldn’t ask for a bonus reward in the first place as that’s not what they’re playing it for. So, once again, the argument is invalid.

No. Achievement points are perfectly acceptable as a bonus reward. It’s only players who feel the unreasonable compulsion to complete every last one of them, no matter how long it takes, who would even think about doing the infinite achievements so many iterations (note how few posters are complaining about this, compared to the number of people complaining about, say, how difficult Bell Choir is), who think it’s a grind.

Stating an argument is invalid does not make it so.

Bubi.7942:

-also snip-

The flaw with your argument is that it assumes this is all-or-nothing. You think players will either max out the AP, or not do any at all. It’s perfectly plausible for a casual player to complete one or two iterations in one activity. Or maybe one iteration in a couple of activities.

As I said before, the achievements are meant to be infinite. The AP cap is high enough to simulate infinity, for the average player. But there is a cap, because otherwise a tiny segment of the population would attempt to take advantage of it, if there weren’t.

Olvendred.3027:

Bubi.7942:

-also snip-

The flaw with your argument is that it assumes this is all-or-nothing. You think players will either max out the AP, or not do any at all. It’s perfectly plausible for a casual player to complete one or two iterations in one activity. Or maybe one iteration in a couple of activities.

As I said before, the achievements are meant to be infinite. The AP cap is high enough to simulate infinity, for the average player. But there is a cap, because otherwise a tiny segment of the population would attempt to take advantage of it, if there weren’t.

As the numbers show, it is far from simulating infinite. Basicly most of them have 5 tiers and that’s it. As you can see in the my previous post, 3 out of 4 activities are whithin comprehension, 1 is not. Why?

- No one would have a problem with this, if it was truly infinite
- No one would have a problem with this, if it didn’t gave any AP at all
- No one would have a problem with this, if it gave AP only on the first completion

So again, why this awful, careless decision?

Bubi.7942:

Olvendred.3027:

Bubi.7942:

-also snip-

The flaw with your argument is that it assumes this is all-or-nothing. You think players will either max out the AP, or not do any at all. It’s perfectly plausible for a casual player to complete one or two iterations in one activity. Or maybe one iteration in a couple of activities.

As I said before, the achievements are meant to be infinite. The AP cap is high enough to simulate infinity, for the average player. But there is a cap, because otherwise a tiny segment of the population would attempt to take advantage of it, if there weren’t.

As the numbers show, it is far from simulating infinite. Basicly most of them have 5 tiers and that’s it. As you can see in the my previous post, 3 out of 4 activities are whithin comprehension, 1 is not. Why?

- No one would have a problem with this, if it was truly infinite
- No one would have a problem with this, if it didn’t gave any AP at all
- No one would have a problem with this, if it gave AP only on the first completion

So again, why this awful, careless decision?

I honestly hate the current AP design. Why dont’ Anet give AP to everything. Like I should get AP for doing dungeons, fractals, spvp, wvw.

You said no one will have a problem with it. I actually have.

Why can’t people get AP if they actually like the activities. It’s almost like Anet remove a bunch of AP just because the “AP completionist” dont’ like it because they can’t finish every single AP.

There should be 100 activities all give AP everyday. And if the AP completionist can’t complete it all, screw them. It’s almost like ANet caped AP just because some completionist can’t do them all.

My point is if you dotn’ like them, dont’ do them. Why can’t someone actually like doing it get some rewards out of it.

That being said, with all the whining and complaining, Anet should probably listen. I’m just expressing my opinion. I doubt Anet want those AP hunter to give up and quit the game.

laokoko.7403:

I honestly hate the current AP design. Why dont’ Anet give AP to everything. Like I should get AP for doing dungeons, fractals, spvp, wvw.

Uhmm… you do get AP for doing dungeons in form of Hobby dungeon explorer and the collection. There is also a tab dedicated to Fractals. There is also a tab dedicated to PvP. There is also a tab dedicated to WvW (altough those are lol – at the current rate I’m gonna get Yakslapper in 60 more years – note, same bad design as with WD achievments).

laokoko.7403:

You said no one will have a problem with it. I actually have.

Why can’t people get AP if they actually like the activities. It’s almost like Anet remove a bunch of AP just because the “AP completionist” dont’ like it because they can’t finish every single AP.

Not sure what you mean. You mean it should be really infinite to not cap AP,? Cause that’s what I suggested, among others.

laokoko.7403:

There should be 100 activities all give AP everyday. And if the AP completionist can’t complete it all, screw them. It’s almost like ANet caped AP just because some completionist can’t do them all.

The “100 activities a day” is actually the rest of the game. And you can freely choose to do them, cause they are not limited content.

laokoko.7403:

My point is if you dotn’ like them, dont’ do them. Why can’t someone actually like doing it get some rewards out of it.

Again, that’s not the point, nor is it an argument to justify badly designed achievments.

Bubi.7942:

laokoko.7403:

I honestly hate the current AP design. Why dont’ Anet give AP to everything. Like I should get AP for doing dungeons, fractals, spvp, wvw.

Uhmm… you do get AP for doing dungeons in form of Hobby dungeon explorer and the collection. There is also a tab dedicated to Fractals. There is also a tab dedicated to PvP. There is also a tab dedicated to WvW (altough those are lol – at the current rate I’m gonna get Yakslapper in 60 more years – note, same bad design as with WD achievments).

That’s not what I mean. They capped the AP for dungeon right?

They should give AP for every single dungeon once a day.

Why should AP be capped just because some AP hunter dont’ felt like doing them.

Bubi.7942:

Not sure what you mean. You mean it should be really infinite to not cap AP,? Cause that’s what I suggested, among others.

Probably not what I mean, because if it is not cap in some way people’ll always choose the easiest way to gain AP.

For example, people’ll rather salvage 5 item than doing the activities if salvage is not cap.

but they can cap it to once(or a few times) per day.

That’s a different thing.

Those are capped so that new players can catch up eventually. Not because of AP hunters not wanting to do them…

Bubi.7942:

That’s a different thing.

Those are capped so that new players can catch up eventually. Not because of AP hunters not wanting to do them…

that’s not what I mean. For example there are like 5 wintersday activities. If it’s not capped, people’ll “only” do the shortest one.

quite honestly I didn’t do the winterday acitivities. Mostly because the rewards is crap. They give a few AP and a tonic??? The only activities I do daily is the winter’s bell, so i can get laurell.

If GW2 dont’ give such poor rewards for most of it’s content, I might actually bother to do them. I didn’t even bother to do spvp or 80% of the dungeon untill they release dungeon collection. And quite honestly the rewards is still pretty crap for an ascended trinket.

So we had 5 instances of putting a muzzle on SM, but instead got a change to gifts that does hardly anything but ruin the snowflake market. GG anet GG.

laokoko.7403:

Bubi.7942:

Olvendred.3027:

Bubi.7942:

-also snip-

The flaw with your argument is that it assumes this is all-or-nothing. You think players will either max out the AP, or not do any at all. It’s perfectly plausible for a casual player to complete one or two iterations in one activity. Or maybe one iteration in a couple of activities.

As I said before, the achievements are meant to be infinite. The AP cap is high enough to simulate infinity, for the average player. But there is a cap, because otherwise a tiny segment of the population would attempt to take advantage of it, if there weren’t.

As the numbers show, it is far from simulating infinite. Basicly most of them have 5 tiers and that’s it. As you can see in the my previous post, 3 out of 4 activities are whithin comprehension, 1 is not. Why?

- No one would have a problem with this, if it was truly infinite
- No one would have a problem with this, if it didn’t gave any AP at all
- No one would have a problem with this, if it gave AP only on the first completion

So again, why this awful, careless decision?

I honestly hate the current AP design. Why dont’ Anet give AP to everything. Like I should get AP for doing dungeons, fractals, spvp, wvw.

You said no one will have a problem with it. I actually have.

Why can’t people get AP if they actually like the activities. It’s almost like Anet remove a bunch of AP just because the “AP completionist” dont’ like it because they can’t finish every single AP.

There should be 100 activities all give AP everyday. And if the AP completionist can’t complete it all, screw them. It’s almost like ANet caped AP just because some completionist can’t do them all.

My point is if you dotn’ like them, dont’ do them. Why can’t someone actually like doing it get some rewards out of it.

That being said, with all the whining and complaining, Anet should probably listen. I’m just expressing my opinion. I doubt Anet want those AP hunter to give up and quit the game.

I agree with the sentiment here. Which is why I argued very hard against a daily AP cap. We should be able to get as much AP as we want, any way we want, doing it as many times as we want.

But, Anet has already taken a stance that there should be a maximum amount of AP obtainable at any given time for a given activity. Which is what places a emphasis on getting every point possible if you are unlocking lets say the radiant armor sets and the weapon skins on that track anyone has yet to reach.

So for people like myself that have a high focus on AP and what it rewards missing these points can matter because we can’t say “oh I will just make it up doing more daily, dungeons, fractals, ect”. No, because these activities are capped and can only derive so many points. So the only way to keep progressing the AP reward track is to do these repeatable achievements.

So really Anet is encouraging a completion mentality with AP limits, which is driving frustrations when something is not reasonable. Which is frustrating to people like that don’t necessarily care about getting them all just want to progress the track and have already hit up nearly all permanent achievements and caps and stuck with the grind it out option.

Slyther.1297:

Why do I have to do it again?

Notice to all players, especially the AP farmers:

You do NOT have to do this. Period.

Carighan.6758:

Saint.5647:

Good joke. There were some achievements in this game reliant on great skill, effort, perseverance, or courage. Still looking at the people who complained about Liadri or Triple Trouble….likely the same people who tried to cheese them or gave up altogether.

Let’s not lie to each other. There is nothing remotely challenging about the dailies.

Notice how his definition cites (as do you) perseverance. Playing 150 rounds of Snowball Mayhem might not be challenging you on a skill level the same way Master-league in Starcraft 2 is, but it requires persistence and effort.

In a way, whoever said above that they should start a thread asking for all achievements to take significantly more effort is right: Most current achievements are pointless.
They require nothing. You get them automatically, more or less. Why even have them in that case? Just because the skinner box trick works so well and there’s a significant amount of people whose brains will encourage them to continue doing something they don’t enjoy at all? (and hence lash out when the amount increases, as per this thread)

Because yes, it does work. Basic game design.
But it’s also really really kittenty game design, and frankly I’d like a game to have zero automatic achievements for once.

Yep. Although, if you read my post, you will see that it’s about the dailies. An easy thing to miss though since both the dailies and the grindy achievements are being discussed in the general thread.

In either case, I agree with you as well. I actually enjoyed gaming before achievements became a thing haha. For whatever reason, people are compelled to do insane things like 150 rounds of Snowball Mayhem for achievements.

Nothing about that suggests anything beyond persistence I also agree that these achievements should go away. If it’s not an achievement, it shouldn’t be there. To an extent, I think there should be a certain amount of general story ones to encourage replay or to encourage players to play certain content or visit certain areas. Past that, I’d like more like Liadri or gambit achievements for general play.

Seems this topic has generated a nice discussion over the past couple days, and I feel it’s time to re-enter it to clarify one point that was made early on.

I don’t have a problem with hard achievements as long as they are permanently available, it’s the time-limited achievements that I was largely complaining about in my OP. The problem with temporary achievements is that once they are gone, that AP is forever lost.

Grindy achievements already exist, like many of the PvP activities that are on rotation. You don’t hear many complaints about them because they are permanent and can be picked away at leisure, there is no pressure to get them done.

I’ve made the decision to cap out Bell, Wonderland, and Toypocalypse, as they are actually somewhat sane, which means I’ll only miss out upwards of 15 of the available 65 AP associated with the grindy achievements.

Slyther.1297:

~Snip~
-Bell choir, 3 AP/30 songs for 20 AP total, 210 songs required
-Toypocalypse, 3 AP/30 rounds for 15 AP total, 150 rounds required
-Wonderland, 3 AP/15 completions for 15 AP total, 75 completions required
-Snowball, 3 AP/30 rounds for 15 AP total, 150 rounds required

~Snip~

As someone else did the math, for the first 3 it’s approximately 4.5 hours total each, to be finished within 28 days. For SM, it’s ~30hrs over 28 days, or a little over an hour per day.

As for your statement(that I didn’t quote), the Ahievements were not reset for WD 2014, let me explain in simple English. Last year(2013), you completed the Achievements for WD 2013, this year, you’re doing a completely new set of Achievements for WD 2014, now they might be the exact same Achievement tracks, but they’re still an entirely new set, which explains why the prior years(same for Halloween) are shown as Historical(they’re history).

Azhure.1857:

Slyther.1297:

Why do I have to do it again?

Notice to all players, especially the AP farmers:

You do NOT have to do this. Period.

That’s basically just a cop out excuse, kinda like playing GW2 itself is ‘optional’.

I’ll be perfectly frank. In regards to Achievement Points, play how you want is not an argument. People will play how they want, regardless. If you want AP you’re going to play to get it, and thus play how you want. If you don’t care about AP you’ll continue to do whatever and play how you want.

They’ve gone and drastically simplified the daily and monthly rewards as well. Previously there was something along the lines of 11 categories per day each worth 1AP. Now they’re all worth 0. If you do any 3(or more) from the list you get 10 AP. It simplifies things. It honestly makes things easier and takes less time. What you’re really complaining about is not that they’re making you play their way and not your own way, but rather that they’re altering how it is that you choose to play your own way.

In regards to tracks that roll over like the snowball mayhem or choir bell, I couldn’t agree more.

fishball.7204:

Azhure.1857:

Slyther.1297:

Why do I have to do it again?

Notice to all players, especially the AP farmers:

You do NOT have to do this. Period.

That’s basically just a cop out excuse, kinda like playing GW2 itself is ‘optional’.

It really isn’t.

Azhure.1857:

fishball.7204:

Azhure.1857:

Slyther.1297:

Why do I have to do it again?

Notice to all players, especially the AP farmers:

You do NOT have to do this. Period.

That’s basically just a cop out excuse, kinda like playing GW2 itself is ‘optional’.

It really isn’t.

It really is.

If it makes you all feel better thinking that you HAVE to farm AP. Please, go right ahead and keep fooling yourselves. There are players out there enjoying the game without the stress that comes with “having” to do every achievement, time-gated or otherwise.

Have: to be required, compelled, or under obligation
Want: to feel a need or a desire for; wish for

Tempted to add the definition for obsession and addiction… but I figured I’d be nice.

Azhure.1857:

If it makes you all feel better thinking that you HAVE to farm AP. Please, go right ahead and keep fooling yourselves. There are players out there enjoying the game without the stress that comes with “having” to do every achievement, time-gated or otherwise.

Have: to be required, compelled, or under obligation
Want: to feel a need or a desire for; wish for

Tempted to add the definition for obsession and addiction… but I figured I’d be nice.

Except AP shouldn’t be tied to farming anyway? Your argument is flawed at every corner.

“flawed at every corner”

Only flaw I see is that I’m still posting in this thread. You don’t want to listen to anyone else. Just hug each other and QQ together. I’ll take my leave.

Azhure.1857:

“flawed at every corner”

Only flaw I see is that I’m still posting in this thread. You don’t want to listen to anyone else. Just hug each other and QQ together. I’ll take my leave.

You should probably listen to your own advice.

35 games to go…