Guild Wars 2

ICEing.9237:

I feel like so many players measure AP as a skill base. While yes it can determine how long someone has played for, it doesn’t measure how skilled you are. And while yes there is nothing in game to measure skill at first sight, capping LFG groups at “LFG Zerk Only 7,000+ AP Ping Gear or kick!” Is annoying at the least.

Last night In fractals I had a 21.000 ap guy repeatedly die at various parts more so than everyone else around 3-5k.

However I do agree if someone’s joining my group at high level fractals and has 500 ap I’m gonna kick them. I feel it should be loosely based on something like that to avoid wasting time.

You should be thankful to them for saving you some time. Anyone who thinks AP is a measuring stick for skill probably isn’t all that great themselves.

ICEing.9237:

What it comes down to is that AP shouldn’t be used as a measure to kick someone out a group under any circumstances!!

Why did you said you would kick people with 500AP in your original post, maybe they have been playing WvW only and dont get as much achievements as other people. Or simply dont care about them ( like me, although i gained 7600 last 1.5year )

I like how the OP is trolling so hard and everyone is falling for it LOL

10/10 successful

ICEing.9237:

What it comes down to is that AP shouldn’t be used as a measure to kick someone out a group under any circumstances!!

Unless someone has only 500 AP am I rite?

i just barely got over 3K, my skill lever however is better then the majority simply because i don’t waste time doing achievements but actually playing the game and trying out new builds/play styles.
better yet, in a dungeon i saved a whole group from death with my non-full geared necromancer, not because of some upgrade but because i know how to survive.

There isn’t anything in this game that actually requires skill. So what’s the issue?

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

ICEing.9237:

What it comes down to is that AP shouldn’t be used as a measure to kick someone out a group under any circumstances!!

Unless someone has only 500 AP am I rite?

Duh

Rouven.7409:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Why thank you Although honestly, unless I’m running in a very strict speed clear, I don’t typically wear it.

What, like armour in general?

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

Looking for hardcore dungeoneers that transcended the need for armour.

I have played naked, just to prove that 1) it was completely doable and 2) that as bad as I am, even I could manage it. At the time, my system couldn’t handle the game and recording what was happening. I’ll have to play around with it now and see if it can now that I’ve upgraded some stuff. Sadly, I can’t upgrade my kittenty kitten internet connection. ATT how I hate you , let me count the ways….

I have to say, I have never looked at another player and asked their AP nor have ever been asked for mine. I think this is a figment of some players imagination (or issue with self-worth, possibly?).

There isn’t anything in this game that actually requires skill. So what’s the issue?

Yeah….that’s a bit of an exaggeration (and sideways bragging). At the very least skillful use of knowledge IS required in many places and it’s quite obvious that some players are better than others when it comes to certain areas of content. Again, it’s mostly knowing HOW to approach specific content rather than being highly skillful at executing the required steps to success (tho that does help and the best players are good at both).

I guess what I’m saying that Tactical Knowledge applied skillfully is quite obvious when observing other players.

Offair.2563:

ICEing.9237:

What it comes down to is that AP shouldn’t be used as a measure to kick someone out a group under any circumstances!!

Why did you said you would kick people with 500AP in your original post, maybe they have been playing WvW only and dont get as much achievements as other people. Or simply dont care about them ( like me, although i gained 7600 last 1.5year )

Playing WvW regularly will net you quite a bit of AP actually. Perhaps he plays PvP, the tiers spread out pretty quick so I could see you not being able to generate AP as quickly. But even then, it begs the question, if that person strictly does PvP or WvW and never does dungeons, do you want them in your group?

Personally I wouldn’t care. I’m not a speedrunner. I like to do fast runs, but I don’t enforce any kind of gear req or AP, heck sometimes not even level req. If someone is just failing to listen to directions, that’s a reason to kick them. If they have low AP, it is not. Everyone has to start somewhere, and these dungeons are pretty forgiving, especially if 4/5 of your team is experienced.

ICEing.9237:

What it comes down to is that AP shouldn’t be used as a measure to kick someone out a group under any circumstances!!

And everyone would have been on your side to that effect if not for that one last line about how you do it anyway.

hm, I will hijack this thread with a question to all of those laid back, maybe doing dungeon once in a livetime, because doing other stuff in game and never actually got to doing them, they are rather boring, but with a fun group one would actually do some sometimes…

If I put up a lfg with such requirements
1)dungeon noob
2)brain
3)able to communicate
4)humor

would you join?

Chuo.4238:

There isn’t anything in this game that actually requires skill. So what’s the issue?

now it’s your turn

Nadha.6097:

hm, I will hijack this thread with a question to all of those laid back, maybe doing dungeon once in a livetime, because doing other stuff in game and never actually got to doing them, they are rather boring, but with a fun group one would actually do some sometimes…

If I put up a lfg with such requirements
1)dungeon noob
2)brain
3)able to communicate
4)humor

would you join?

Yup

I mean, that’s not really all that different than the ones I tend to put up:

“Casual, non-running, be prepared to massacre everything, newbies welcome”

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Nadha.6097:

hm, I will hijack this thread with a question to all of those laid back, maybe doing dungeon once in a livetime, because doing other stuff in game and never actually got to doing them, they are rather boring, but with a fun group one would actually do some sometimes…

If I put up a lfg with such requirements
1)dungeon noob
2)brain
3)able to communicate
4)humor

would you join?

Yup

I mean, that’s not really all that different than the ones I tend to put up:

“Casual, non-running, be prepared to massacre everything, newbies welcome”

I post LFGs like that as well. Stress it is casual and all levels/gear accepted.

Those groups fill up instantly let me tell you. And by instant, I literally mean, I click post and group is full within 3 secs. And meanwhile the “expert zerk only, ping gear, speed run, no noobs” group is still waiting to start, sometimes even after we finish our ~15min CoF p1 run.

I mean, at what point when you are “speed running” do you think to yourself “boy how much time are we wasting filtering out all these potential players, checking gear and AP, kicking people, waiting some more, before we can even start?”

I guess I’m actually asking this question. If you are a speed runner who posts zerk only/expert only, Xk AP req, ping gear LFGs, how long is it taking you to fill your groups on average (assuming you are PUGing and don’t have a pre-made group you run with obviously)? If it’s more than 5min, then doesn’t that defeat the purpose of a speed run? Isn’t quick turn-around the point? Which would include group creation of course. 8min to form a group, 7min to run the path. Versus 3 secs to form the group, 12-14min to run the path.

I dunno, seems like at some point it is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

People posting for speed runs on LFG don’t understand that anything outside of a record run is just a casual run. I mean yeah, I’ve completed Arah p3 in 8:58 to set the (at the time) record, but if you get four random pugs to “speed run” with you, you’ll probably do it in like 25 minutes if you factor in people lazing around waiting for people to enter the instance, building up stacks and generally just mistakes along the way. At that point it’s not a speed run, it’s probably just five dudes in DPS gear doing the path for their daily reward

If I put up a lfg with such requirements
1)dungeon noob
2)brain
3)able to communicate
4)humor

I join Arah groups with 1) to make sure their experience isn’t too painful and that they’re not stuck in there for hours. 2, 3 and 4, sure, though especially 3 since there are some groups which are honestly just terrible at communicating and it’s frustrating when things go wrong, you say what you can do to get it right and then … no response.

Draknar.5748:

To defend OP, someone with 500 AP is a player that has barely played the game at all. Unless you’re running FoTM1, I could totally see why you would want to kick them.

On the other hand, it could very well be a skilled player who got a new/second account, so I guess I don’t even know what I’m saying.

Here’s what you do: you ask them questions specific to FoTM.

“I see you only have 500AP”
“Uh yea, well its a new account I’m actually quite skilled”
“Cool cool, I’m sure, I’m sure, but just to be sure, could you maybe explain the Jade Maw fight, like what you do with the crystals?”
“Uhh, Jade Maw, yea, well you have to destroy those uh crystals, and uhm, then, uh, it will blow up, gulp, the uhm, uh, Jade Maw?”

kick from group

Exactly. But I’d throw in a “I think we need someone with a bit more experience. We will keep your resume on file and if anything opens up in the future we may give you a call.”

I feel stupid asking this but how do you see another player’s AP point total.

maha.7902:

Chuo.4238:

There isn’t anything in this game that actually requires skill. So what’s the issue?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTafFOu4jL0

now it’s your turn

Skill. Warrior. LoL.

Nadha.6097:

hm, I will hijack this thread with a question to all of those laid back, maybe doing dungeon once in a livetime, because doing other stuff in game and never actually got to doing them, they are rather boring, but with a fun group one would actually do some sometimes…

If I put up a lfg with such requirements
1)dungeon noob
2)brain
3)able to communicate
4)humor

would you join?

That sounds like a dungeon group I’d jump on, and hope there was someone who understood the end boss mechanic.

robertul.3679:

maha.7902:

Chuo.4238:

There isn’t anything in this game that actually requires skill. So what’s the issue?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTafFOu4jL0

now it’s your turn

Skill. Warrior. LoL.

I’m pretty sure that doing something (sub-5 lupicus) which like only 0.00000001% of the game population has even done let alone even capable of is skill, but YMMV.

ICEing.9237:

What it comes down to is that AP shouldn’t be used as a measure to kick someone out a group under any circumstances!!

ICEing.9237:

However I do agree if someone’s joining my group at high level fractals and has 500 ap I’m gonna kick them.

Then why do you do it?

K, thanks, bye.

-
-
Unlike the OP.

I am actually willing to allow anyone to do dungeons with me. As long as they will listen and communicate.

For example. Doing Arah P1/3 runs I frequently end up in parties with one or several 300-500 AP players. Do I kick them from the run because I’m doing Arah? No. I teach them how to properly run Arah paths. (Even went so far as to stay for almost two (2) hours on a run to make sure it got finished. So the players in question had a good experience their first trip in Arah.)

The OP of this thread however. Has just revealed himself to be an Elitist pick. (Add the extra letter yourself, I know you know what letter it is.)

Congrats OP on your post, and as everyone stated. Derailing your OWN THREAD within your very first post.

I do it because I hate scrubs that wipe every second. So I kick them.

But AP shouldn’t be the sole reason you kick someone unless 500 or less then by all means kick

Nadha.6097:

hm, I will hijack this thread with a question to all of those laid back, maybe doing dungeon once in a livetime, because doing other stuff in game and never actually got to doing them, they are rather boring, but with a fun group one would actually do some sometimes…

If I put up a lfg with such requirements
1)dungeon noob
2)brain
3)able to communicate
4)humor

would you join?

Can I join if I pretend to be a noob?

People who perform AP checks tend to bug me so I usually avoid those groups. I also find that groups who are the most serious about people being super pro tend to take longer to complete content than groups who are a little more chill. I would much rather take along someone with a low AP score, train them to do the dungeon, and then have an eager, reliable dungeon buddy in the long term.

Funny story: this one time I let someone bring a level 9 character into a CM explore path. That person not only did well, they died less than some people at level while also engaging in combat/not cowering in a corner while we moved through the dungeon. This person had a low AP score AND was ridiculously under-leveled. It was their first account. I spent the entire dungeon laughing hysterically as other party members were trying to figure out how the crap this person stayed alive.

Some days I just want to speed through a few dungeons to make some money, but I would rather dungeon with a fun, silly group than someone spewing gear requirements.

ICEing.9237:

I do it because I hate scrubs that wipe every second. So I kick them.

But AP shouldn’t be the sole reason you kick someone unless 500 or less then by all means kick

Then learn to either:

A) Get good enough to carry the scrubs who wipe every second.
B) Form a 5 man group you can consistently run with.
C) Go whine somewhere else.

TL;DR

Op’s post is a thinly veiled: “DPS meter/Player Rating – plox so I can kick noobs easier. I really hate noobs.”

Allaraina.8614:

Funny story: this one time I let someone bring a level 9 character into a CM explore path. That person not only did well, they died less than some people at level while also engaging in combat/not cowering in a corner while we moved through the dungeon. This person had a low AP score AND was ridiculously under-leveled. It was their first account. I spent the entire dungeon laughing hysterically as other party members were trying to figure out how the crap this person stayed alive.

I too find running dungeons with newer players, tends to go by faster, than the “pro runs” that some people insist on doing.

The problem is that when you have fun, the time really does go by quicker. (People who are not stressed out, usually tend to perform better. There are exceptions of course, but normally stress is bad.)

Ashadow.6874:

ICEing.9237:

What it comes down to is that AP shouldn’t be used as a measure to kick someone out a group under any circumstances!!

ICEing.9237:

However I do agree if someone’s joining my group at high level fractals and has 500 ap I’m gonna kick them.

Then why do you do it?

K, thanks, bye.

-
-
Unlike the OP.

I am actually willing to allow anyone to do dungeons with me. As long as they will listen and communicate.

For example. Doing Arah P1/3 runs I frequently end up in parties with one or several 300-500 AP players. Do I kick them from the run because I’m doing Arah? No. I teach them how to properly run Arah paths. (Even went so far as to stay for almost two (2) hours on a run to make sure it got finished. So the players in question had a good experience their first trip in Arah.)

The OP of this thread however. Has just revealed himself to be an Elitist pick. (Add the extra letter yourself, I know you know what letter it is.)

Congrats OP on your post, and as everyone stated. Derailing your OWN THREAD within your very first post.

I like how everyone is still taking this serious.

Keep feeding

As someone with 21k+ AP, I dont put any AP in my LFGs when I run dungeons/fractals.

But often I regret not doing so, because when a 1-2k AP dude shows up and dont know what to do, it is VERY VERY obvious. Just the same as when someone joins in when you ask for zerker gear. Or just the same as when you ask for guardian/warriors and you get rangers/engis. Ah well, the joys of the LFG tool I guess.

Anyway as everyone said, you’ll have more chance to have a guy who knows what to do in dungeons/fract at 20k ap than a dude with 1k. This is simple logic and also because people have been maybe too tolerant with unexperienced dudes who just try to sneak in an experienced run while they have no idea what to do.

AlexTakyra.8156:

I like how everyone is still taking this serious.

Keep feeding

If only the OP was trolling. His post might have been slightly more bearable. Your post however is trolling.

Bravo good sir, bravo! I tip my hat, would you like a slice of pie?

TA aether path – meta breaker
Player with 300 in-game-IQ played 100 times better than…
Player with 11,000 in-game-IQ <- wonder what, had to kick him
True Story

MotherKitten.6795:

I feel stupid asking this but how do you see another player’s AP point total.

You add to friends list. Shows AP.

Draknar.5748:

MotherKitten.6795:

I feel stupid asking this but how do you see another player’s AP point total.

You add to friends list. Shows AP.

You can also just hover mouse over the player in the group/party UI.

Draknar.5748:

MotherKitten.6795:

I feel stupid asking this but how do you see another player’s AP point total.

You add to friends list. Shows AP.

Or if you are partied with them. Mousing over the party icons shows information like account name, AP, location, etc..

Ashadow.6874:

Allaraina.8614:

Funny story: this one time I let someone bring a level 9 character into a CM explore path. That person not only did well, they died less than some people at level while also engaging in combat/not cowering in a corner while we moved through the dungeon. This person had a low AP score AND was ridiculously under-leveled. It was their first account. I spent the entire dungeon laughing hysterically as other party members were trying to figure out how the crap this person stayed alive.

I too find running dungeons with newer players, tends to go by faster, than the “pro runs” that some people insist on doing.

The problem is that when you have fun, the time really does go by quicker. (People who are not stressed out, usually tend to perform better. There are exceptions of course, but normally stress is bad.)

Absolutely true.

I wanted to add that while I did say ‘tend to’, obviously that isn’t always the case. I’ve certainly had many fantastically successful (and even fun!) runs with people who have 10k+ ap and have run dungeons a trillion times before. At the end of the day I think the point is it’s more about attitude than anything else.

I never really understood the AP, gear check, or “zerk only” mentality. But if thats how you want to roll, thats fine, but count me out. I always run “Any welcome” PUGs anyway. Most of the time we get an experienced group who knows what to do, sometimes not so much. Recently had to 2 man dredge factal boss because the other members didn’t know what to do and after 6 wipes we were getting frustrated. But that was a very rare occurance.

Anyway my point is, Why would you want to do a check of AP,gear, or whatever? It just doesn’t make sense to me.

AP are a very poor measure of skill for dungeon grouping. But there is no way to check someone’s skill level and the odds are people with less than 4k points are going to be worse then people with more than 4k points.

AP mesuring skill is as reliable as grouping with people wearing black obsidian armor with chaos gloves.

lol omg I remember in gw1 ‘NO CHAOS GLOVES NO INVITE’ sometimes with fowsc/uwsc groups, made me laugh so much.

But yes I agree that AP is ridiculous and that “5k ap plz” usually accompanied with “FULL ZERKER” when it’s a fractals group which I just can’t handle. It’s funny that it always seems to be lowish/medium lvl fractals like 20 then 35+ noone asks for ap.

If theres someone with a low AP in your group they may well have more of a likeliness to be bad but that doesn’t mean you should kick them. It creates an ‘elite’ in dungeon/fractals community which already exists ofc but if new players can’t learn then how are they going to have the chance to get better?

I understand if people want to kick them (boo) but we all had very low AP once and were probably kicked from a group, why not give them a chance and actually let them learn to play _ dungeon path or lvl ____ fractals so they can teach others etc etc etc boop boop im out

Its kind of like gear rating in other games. Its not a very good measure, but it’s the best we’ve got. Someone who played the game longer is likely to be better than someone who played less.

Meh… Some people have it hard with math. And this is the reason, why such threads appear again and again. There is a word for this. Probability.

It explains everything. Yes. U can find a coal in the bag full of diamonds. And opposite. U can find Diamonds in the bag full of coal. But what is the chance of that? Thats where comes probability. If u need diamond, which bag u would prefer to pick from? Diamonds or coal? Any sane man would pick bag with diamonds, because chances are better. Thats how the whole AP drama works.

Also. No one asks for ap in high level fotm, because it becomes obvious after 1-st agony wave. If u have no resist > bb. If u have, u most likely not so nooby. After all, u put some effort to get your gear ready.

Erus Keb.8379:

Draknar.5748:

MotherKitten.6795:

I feel stupid asking this but how do you see another player’s AP point total.

You add to friends list. Shows AP.

You can also just hover mouse over the player in the group/party UI.

TIL……..

It’s like the search bar in inventory. I didn’t even know it existed until two weeks ago. I was doing a FoTM24 run, had a pretty full bag and swear I had accidentally salvaged my scepter. Was saying things in group like “omg I can’t find my scepter I think I salvaged it omg! Guys I’m sorry, gotta run staff for ranged”.

Then someone in the group said “why don’t you use the search bar and type in scepter”.

._. wut.

I did not salvage scepter. Was just hidden among garbage.

ICEing.9237:

I feel like so many players measure AP as a skill base. While yes it can determine how long someone has played for, it doesn’t measure how skilled you are. And while yes there is nothing in game to measure skill at first sight, capping LFG groups at “LFG Zerk Only 7,000+ AP Ping Gear or kick!” Is annoying at the least.

Last night In fractals I had a 21.000 ap guy repeatedly die at various parts more so than everyone else around 3-5k.

However I do agree if someone’s joining my group at high level fractals and has 500 ap I’m gonna kick them. I feel it should be loosely based on something like that to avoid wasting time.

I have almost 16k AP. AP is absolutely not a measure of skill; it’s a measure of how long you’ve been playing the game. If you try to improve, the longer you play the better you’ll get … but if you don’t try, you won’t improve however long you play. I’ve played with people with half my AP who were better than me at the dungeon paths we were doing.

I’m less interested in parties with AP requirements, though I sometimes join if I can’t find another PUG doing a path I’m interested in.

ICEing.9237:

I feel like so many players measure AP as a skill base. While yes it can determine how long someone has played for, it doesn’t measure how skilled you are. And while yes there is nothing in game to measure skill at first sight, capping LFG groups at “LFG Zerk Only 7,000+ AP Ping Gear or kick!” Is annoying at the least.

Last night In fractals I had a 21.000 ap guy repeatedly die at various parts more so than everyone else around 3-5k.

However I do agree if someone’s joining my group at high level fractals and has 500 ap I’m gonna kick them. I feel it should be loosely based on something like that to avoid wasting time.

high achievement points usually equate to a high amount of pve. and what happens when pve exclusive players come into wvw? i get laughs.

ICEing.9237:

I do it because I hate scrubs that wipe every second. So I kick them.

But AP shouldn’t be the sole reason you kick someone unless 500 or less then by all means kick

Then kick them when they wipe. For all you know, that <500 AP player will be the one player that never goes down. And for all you know, you might have kicked someone who has a PR level of 40+ and max AR. With <500 AP.

Quizzing them about the Fractals dont always work either. I’ve beaten every single Fractal you can roll, yet I can only explain how to run a handful of them. Not because I dont know, but because for me as a person, it’s easier to show instead of tell.

Honestly, if you’re worried about your group being bad just go on a carry class like engineer, mesmer or guardian. That way it doesn’t even matter if they suck because you’ll be well prepared with decent utilities.

I could meet all these requirements and still not know WTF I was doing. Makes me feel like putting on some cheaper zerker gear and trolling these groups.

Leroy Jenkins!!!!

Usually the people who put such invested requirements in their lfgs are pretty mediocre themselves. At least that has been my experience. I am a little wary of people under 1000 AP or so, but I do not kick them. I just readjust my expectations for the run a little bit.

There really isn’t anyway to measure a player. Legendaries are common as dirt. Glory/rank is farmed. WXP is farmed. The only thing I’d be impressed by is maybe Yak Slapper. If nothing else, you know that dude is going to be patient.

I like joining these groups with my 11k ap, then calling then scrubs for not even being near me.

Its horrible judgment as time goes on, ap will continue to add up, causing higher qualifications. Not to mention probably half of everyone’s ap is from salvaging.

Serophous.9085:

I like joining these groups with my 11k ap, then calling then scrubs for not even being near me.

Its horrible judgment as time goes on, ap will continue to add up, causing higher qualifications. Not to mention probably half of everyone’s ap is from salvaging.

Salvaging is now capped. Similarly for hobby dungeon explorer.

AP is not a good way to determine skill. I have over 15k AP now, and I consider myself fairly skilled. I know all of Fractals, can solo just about all open world Champs, have been to multiple Teq/Wurm kills, know what to do in WvW ankitten ow slowly learning sPvP. Yet the highest dungeon I’ve done is SE; I wouldn’t have a clue what to do in CoF/CoE/HotW/Arah if I were to step in there now. When I first started SE, everybody was mindblown when I said I was new to this and for people to please give me instructions for tricky areas. They couldn’t believe that somebody with 14k (at the time) AP hadn’t done SE yet, but it happens!