Guild Wars 2

So, first off, to remove some of those people who don’t agree with me and their assumptions:

I’ve more than enough AP to get into generally any group that I want, unless it’s a AP15k+ group, if they even exist.

The reason I believe this is for the better is how the system currently works, if you’re friends or in group you can see their level, character an AP. If you’re in a guild you can see their crafting and AP(and no last logged in which is pretty ridiculous by now). And this is OK in some way.

AP is used to measure if someone is skilled at the game or not. In other games, like Guild Wars that was measured on things that ACTUALLY could say if you were good, such as titles(champ, hero, glad, GWAMM, LB, EoTN titles)

AP is in itself just a “Who can farm the most achievement points”.

It is not a measure of skill and can’t be used as such, and the amount of low IQ people I find around the game in groups that require this is the same as of those that don’t.

I don’t really care that people use it, but I feel AP should be a private thing. It is not a title, it’s not a measure of worth and so it shouldn’t be used that way. If they want people to show how skilled they are ANet needs to make titles appropriate to PvE dungeons etc.

I’m not even the kind of person who encourage the whole: play how you want with your full cleric healing thief! I honestly understand the need for skilled players but I feel it needs a better system to filter them.

A person who’s done all the JP’s and daily’s aren’t going to be skilled in your full berserker Arah run.

Nope, I like to look to people’s AP, I dont judge much based on it, but I just like to do it, just as much as I like people looking at mine. 9k is nothing impressive, but I have been called out for it before, and It made me feel good, made me feel….accomplished ingame.

So no, for every 1 of you who dont want achievement points out, there are plenty more who does. In fact, the top AP scores in my guild love to brag aboutit with their 12-13k AP. Im well aware it means nothing in dungeons given my dungeon experience, but who cares;

AP is a good bragging way without anything to really brag about

I follow wvw commanders with 10k, I follow commanders with 6k, I also follow commanders with less than 3k. It makes no diff to me.

The amount of AP is useful for me when i want to report a bot. If i suspect a player is a bot first i add him to my block list, then if the person has like 200 ap i report him for botting.

There are lots of bots on the HoTW entrance and in the champion train in frostgourge sound in Blackgate, there is even a guild for these bots.

If I reach the next 500-step of AP, I generally think “Oh, cool! =D”.

If someone has really a lot of AP (and I happen to see that or if I check out of curiosity), I think “lol wow, he must have played a lot (or be quite dedicated to farm them)”.

Other than that, I don’t really care about how many AP someone has. I can understand if some people prefer to only take people to dungeons who have at least 1k achievement points, though; because you get those kinda fast while making your first experiences with the game. With 1k AP, you are way more likely to have a general understanding of how the game works than if you’re below that (because as I’ve already said, you get those first 1k kinda fast).

Personally the strangest about this AP-measuring contest is that ppl only started caring about the amount you have after Anet implemented rewards. Before that I never saw anyone advertise a dungeon run with AP requirements or players getting kicked for not having a lot of them.

neko.9028:

So, first off, to remove some of those people who don’t agree with me and their assumptions:

I’ve more than enough AP to get into generally any group that I want, unless it’s a AP15k+ group, if they even exist.

The reason I believe this is for the better is how the system currently works, if you’re friends or in group you can see their level, character an AP. If you’re in a guild you can see their crafting and AP(and no last logged in which is pretty ridiculous by now). And this is OK in some way.

AP is used to measure if someone is skilled at the game or not. In other games, like Guild Wars that was measured on things that ACTUALLY could say if you were good, such as titles(champ, hero, glad, GWAMM, LB, EoTN titles)

AP is in itself just a “Who can farm the most achievement points”.

It is not a measure of skill and can’t be used as such, and the amount of low IQ people I find around the game in groups that require this is the same as of those that don’t.

I don’t really care that people use it, but I feel AP should be a private thing. It is not a title, it’s not a measure of worth and so it shouldn’t be used that way. If they want people to show how skilled they are ANet needs to make titles appropriate to PvE dungeons etc.

I’m not even the kind of person who encourage the whole: play how you want with your full cleric healing thief! I honestly understand the need for skilled players but I feel it needs a better system to filter them.

A person who’s done all the JP’s and daily’s aren’t going to be skilled in your full berserker Arah run.

I don’t really care about achievements so 95% of the ones I have came from not trying to get them.

I have around 600 hours playtime and I have never seen anyone discriminating solely because of low AP. Neither have I seen someone require other to be above a certain AP and neither have I seen anyone ever mention that High AP = High Skill so I have no idea where you got that from.

solrik.6028:

I don’t really care about achievements so 95% of the ones I have came from not trying to get them.

I have around 600 hours playtime and I have never seen anyone discriminating solely because of low AP. Neither have I seen someone require other to be above a certain AP and neither have I seen anyone ever mention that High AP = High Skill so I have no idea where you got that from.

watch the LFG tool and dungeons for awhile, it does crop up, it’s not super common but I see it at least once a day.

solrik.6028:

I have around 600 hours playtime and I have never seen anyone discriminating solely because of low AP. Neither have I seen someone require other to be above a certain AP and neither have I seen anyone ever mention that High AP = High Skill so I have no idea where you got that from.

It actually happens fairly often. Open up the LFG tool and you should see plenty of groups wanting 4-5k+ AP for their speed runs.

EDIT: ninja’d

I despise the idea that AP = Skill and knowledge of the game, for it is one that is unequivocally incorrect.

I’ve played since launch on and off and only just hit 4,000 AP. The reason for this is there are various types of gamers out there and unfortunately I’m one of those that suffers from the AP system. I’m not a collector, I have no desire to fill a fancy tick box and I hate the fact that the Living world system rewards players by doing so. Its brings me back to the core reasons why questing in games like World of Warcraft where boring as hell… Couple that with the fact that a lot of the high end rewards are based around the Laurel system which is tied into AP it just frustrates me. That said Laurals are not a major issue since the daily and monthly categories are quite often easily completed by general gameplay.

I want more things to do in the world of Guild Wars 2 and I struggle to feel satisfied between temporary content where I complete a list of tasks and get a chest pop up. I’m focused too much on the reward list than the actual game play and is the main reason why I avoid the content. This unfortunately leaves me 50+ AP down from everyone else every two weeks.

@solrik – I don’t know perhaps servers differ because very frequently I’ve seen groups in LFG etc or people mentioning AP as a defining factor of ones ability to play the game or said dungeon.

I am on the fence on this issue.

1. On the one hand, I do hear of people who won’t group with players with less than (X) AP. It would be almost laughable except that in general, it’s fairly easy to get that first few thousand AP. Up until about 2-3K it does mean you have a good grasp of the game and how it works, but after that it’s just numbers (except for point 2 below.) In this case, yeah, there’s no reason for it to be public.

2. On the other hand, it’s one of the few ways this game has to give you a sense of accomplishment. Without a Hall of Monuments type display area, it gives people a sense of “Look what I did!” When I see people in my friend list that have over 10K, I know without a doubt that they like this game, or they wouldn’t have put that much time and energy into it. It’s the one thing in the game that you can’t buy. Ascendeds? Legendaries? Go ahead…whip out your credit card…but Achievement Points are yours through actually playing the game. In this case, let them show for everyone to see.

So in summary, yes, there are elitist who will use the AP to beat their collective chests and exclude lower-AP players, but in general, AP is a good way to show off your accomplishments.

I would rather that they leave it alone, I think. We’re (yes, all of us) not responsible for someone else. If they (the elitist AP snobs) are exclusionary because of a number, do you really want to group with them in the first place?

Edit: I am just under 5K in AP, even though I’ve played for a year and I am good at what I choose to do. I just don’t chase AP.

Zomaarwat.3912:

Personally the strangest about this AP-measuring contest is that ppl only started caring about the amount you have after Anet implemented rewards.

I’m inclined to agree with this. AP was largely an abstract entity for most people until leaderboards/rewards were introduced.

Personally my AP was always high, but that was more the completionist in me. The rewards were a bonus that came later.

Getting back to the OP, I’m not sure how i feel, I’m in 2 minds. Occasionally people have offered congratulations on a high AP and it’s a good feeling that people have taken the time to notice and do so. On the other hand I’ve had situations were people start with the attitude and you don’t really understand what their beef with you is until they starting calling you out on your high AP meaning nothing, meanwhile their AP is half yours.

In any event, I’m happy to leave it as it is. You meet stupid people online fairly regularly, life goes on.

Saturn.6591:

If I reach the next 500-step of AP, I generally think “Oh, cool! =D”.

If someone has really a lot of AP (and I happen to see that or if I check out of curiosity), I think “lol wow, he must have played a lot (or be quite dedicated to farm them)”.

Other than that, I don’t really care about how many AP someone has. I can understand if some people prefer to only take people to dungeons who have at least 1k achievement points, though; because you get those kinda fast while making your first experiences with the game. With 1k AP, you are way more likely to have a general understanding of how the game works than if you’re below that (because as I’ve already said, you get those first 1k kinda fast).

Agreed, I’m almost to 6k AP but I stink a PvP, and WvW, depending on the toon I’m playing I stink at PvE but I don’t really care, I play to have fun and get a sense of some form of achievement for the hours played the chests at every 500 AP are just another carrot dangling in-front of my toons that I must try to get, doesn’t mean that I’m the least bit competent at any one aspect of the game. It does show that I have played and completed tasks and should have a basic knowledge of the game mechanics.

They don’t measure skill. The measure your ability and patience for completing a list full of tedious chores.

Fortus.6175:

Nope, I like to look to people’s AP, I dont judge much based on it, but I just like to do it, just as much as I like people looking at mine. 9k is nothing impressive, but I have been called out for it before, and It made me feel good, made me feel….accomplished ingame.

So no, for every 1 of you who dont want achievement points out, there are plenty more who does. In fact, the top AP scores in my guild love to brag aboutit with their 12-13k AP. Im well aware it means nothing in dungeons given my dungeon experience, but who cares;

AP is a good bragging way without anything to really brag about

The bulk of achievement points come from dailies which are the same mundane tasks. If you start the game late you will be at a disadvantage and never reach the leaderboards. Then we have living story achievements another set l achievements new players can’t obtain.

I do not like the AP visible either… I play WvW and basically only WvW. I have over 5k APs and when I do run dungeons I get to listen to someone with 10k+ APs complain saying they know how to play better because their APs are higher… Seriously had to revive the guy and his guild mate 10x in row because they just tried to rush through and leave behind the lower levels in group. They then complained voted to kick me out of group right near end of dungeon and since they were 2 players from same guild vote worked. Saddest part, is I didn’t invite the 2nd guy, we had someone lose connection and the guy invited his guild mate without asking. When they kicked me, everyone got removed from dungeon since I was the creator.

#WillNeverPugAgain Lol

It is not a measure of skill and can’t be used as such, and the amount of low IQ people I find around the game in groups that require this is the same as of those that don’t.

I believe you’ve answered your own question, OP.

The problem isn’t in the mechanic or even its design. It’s within the psychology of players. Arenanet can make statements regarding the design, intent, or use of AP, but it’s the choice of each individual on how to perceive it.

IMO, players who see anything as a restriction (whether it be AP, gear score, AR, or any sort of barrier of entry) just refuse to challenge themselves, and are content with their assumptions of skill level (or time-level, depending on your point of view).

Play how you want is a two way street. If they only want people with high AP who are you to deny them that? It’s not as if there isn’t an abundance of other parties that don’t have any requirements at all. Even if there was a lack of party types that you want, there is never anything stopping you from making your own party. The only people that would be in favor of something like this would be a party crasher trying to force others that wouldn’t want to play with them for whatever reason.

Aberrant.6749:

If they only want people with high AP who are you to deny them that?

Because having a lot of AP really makes any difference whatsoever..

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Aberrant.6749:

If they only want people with high AP who are you to deny them that?

Because having a lot of AP really makes any difference whatsoever..

I believe that’s precisely the point Aberrant was trying to make.

Let them wallow in their stupidity and/or ignorance

There are plenty of other parties available with no assumed restrictions.

Don’t hide AP, get rid of it, it means nothing, and the rewards for AP aren’t really that impressive. The only thing that the AP score measures is your ability or perhaps rather your desire to obtain AP.

AP is just another tool to keep people playing the game and chasing that next 500 point box that’s only few more points away. Another tool, a short cut really used rather than creating something meaningful to do.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Aberrant.6749:

If they only want people with high AP who are you to deny them that?

Because having a lot of AP really makes any difference whatsoever..

Any difference or not, let them play with whoever they want.

Player with higher AP has a higher chance of being better than one who has lower AP simply because of having been in the game longer.

Yenn.9185:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Aberrant.6749:

If they only want people with high AP who are you to deny them that?

Because having a lot of AP really makes any difference whatsoever..

Any difference or not, let them play with whoever they want.

Player with higher AP has a higher chance of being better than one who has lower AP simply because of having been in the game longer.

Slightly true. They have a higher chance of having more knowledge about gear, builds, and skills. This does not mean they can execute. In fact, sometimes the best number crunchers will be the worst team members, because they’ll criticize others, with no regard to team composition or morale.

I have nearly 11K achievement points and didnt even know people cared about them in GW2, lol. They have nothing to do with being a good player, just spending time ingame and knowing what to do to get them. I dont recall anyone ever asking about it in any party or bringing it up in chats.

The only thing its good for is belittling guild members for having less than you.

How about semi-private? Remove the ability to see other players ap in game but keep them viewable on leaderboards via search

AP is somewhat a measure of how much a player has played GW2. Of course, there is a huge rift in AP between those that farm it and those that don’t, but you can generally say that a player who has <1k hasn’t been in-game long, because of how easily AP accumulates at first. When looking at dungeon PUGs, you can generally tell who’s going to have the least experience if they’re below 2k or so. Players who have played longer are more likely to have more experience and be better at the game. I would be perfectly fine if AP on hover was replaced with hours played, as it would be a much better indicator. In general I don’t mind if people are low AP, but if everyone in a party but me is below 1.5k it’s almost guaranteed to be a painful run. Sometimes I want to avoid that.

(But seriously, AP stops being a decent indicator of time played after 2.5k-3k, so I have no idea what those guys advertising for 4k or 5k+ AP parties are thinking)

When I see somehow with AP under 1k I simply think “oh he probably started not too long ago” and I might take time to explain things if necessary.
But to judge skill with it ? GW2 isn’t a complicated game to pick up for some, while for others, even with 9k+ AP they still can’t be useful teammates (and on top of that, they dare to have an attitude).

If anything, those with higher APs are more likely bad players, as they go off gallivanting through living story “updates” completing every achievement included, and prance through the jumping puzzle and generally just do through everything but dungeons in order to get more APs.

An example, someone I’m “forced” to play with has about 200 less than me, and I’ve played for many more months than him, he is horrendous in dungeons because he messes about focusing on trying to +1 everybody with APs.

My AP is almost to 10,000… and it certainly doesn’t warn people that I’m old, slow and have a super power that allows me to fall off of anything…

Casmurro.9046:

The amount of AP is useful for me when i want to report a bot. If i suspect a player is a bot first i add him to my block list, then if the person has like 200 ap i report him for botting.

Tell you this, at one point my own account was hacked and used for botting for about 12hrs before i managed to get it rightfully back and at that time i had at least about 2k ap so you do have some flaws in that system of yours i’d say x3

Flissy.4093:

If anything, those with higher APs are more likely bad players, as they go off gallivanting through living story “updates” completing every achievement included, and prance through the jumping puzzle and generally just do through everything but dungeons in order to get more APs.

An example, someone I’m “forced” to play with has about 200 less than me, and I’ve played for many more months than him, he is horrendous in dungeons because he messes about focusing on trying to +1 everybody with APs.

I’ve found the opposite true. Those with lower AP’s tend to be much worse in dungeons than those with higher AP. The ones with higher AP are much more reliable in terms of able to dodge, block, or kite even if they do not know the instances quite well.

Consequently, I’ve also seen those with high AP to be TERRIBLE at WvW and PvP but most will say they do PvE content only – which makes sense. High AP usually mean dungeon runners and PvE content, but not always true either.

AP has absolutely nothing to do with player skill. Anyone who thinks it does is just trying to lord themselves over other players. It’s some sort of syndrome or something I’m sure, but I don’t know the name of it.

Generally, I avoid people with really high AP, as they usually have an attitude, think they are better than everyone else, and play at a reduced level from normal people because they are busy worrying about AP to begin with.

Then again I’m a WvW player, I don’t really care how many LS updates and mind numbing daily quests you have done to inflate your insignificant number.

Are there good and kind high AP players out there? Absolutely! But they are the exception, not the norm from my personal experience. To each their own, I think we should all play our own way anyway, and worry about what we feel is important rather than others.