Guild Wars 2

Olvendred.3027:

It’s indicates time spent playing the game. No one has 10k+ AP without having spent a lot of time in GW2. As a rule of thumb, someone who has spent more time playing tends to be better than someone who has spent less time playing. It doesn’t exactly have an overwhelming degree of accuracy, but it’s the best indicator available in game.

This.

All else being equal someone with more AP is more familiar with the game and statistically more likely to play better. By eliminating low AP and thus lower time played players you are more likely to complete the dungeon without any problem.

Note: Incoming comments from people who don’t understand statistics and use random anecdotal evidence to try and say i’m wrong. I will not respond to you, go back to school.

I have 11,500 AP and I wish I could hide it because it don’t mean squat. I’m a very casual player who rarely does dungeons. I have about 8 paths done on dungeon completion and may not do a dungeon in a month’s time, which means I’m clueless on what the mechanics are and depend on my guildies to tell me what to do and where to go. With my high AP I hate to pug as people will see it and think I know what to do in the dungeon. :/

ZudetGambeous.9573:

All else being equal someone with more AP is more familiar with the game and statistically more likely to play better. By eliminating low AP and thus lower time played players you are more likely to complete the dungeon without any problem.

Note: Incoming comments from people who don’t understand statistics and use random anecdotal evidence to try and say i’m wrong. I will not respond to you, go back to school.

Mainly because of the somewhat combative tone of para 2, since you’re sure of the statistics, let’s see the numbers. This isn’t an expected but unsupported by research thing is it?

~~~

(I agree that a ton of AP makes it somewhat more likely you know what’s going on, but the whole ‘people don’t know statistics’ vs. the guy misusing the word ‘statistics’ was just too much to pass up)

The way to measure a players ability? Actually playing with them. People with over 15k points are what I call “achievement whores”

ap’s =/= skill. I’ve partied with people who have over 15k AP’s who were just flat out awful, I’ve partied with people who have 2k AP’s and are better than 3/4 of my guild.

Needless to say find people who you want to play with and play the game with them. It will make partying less dreadful and much more fun.

AP to me doesn’t indicate skill and certainly doesn’t indicate dungeon experience. To me, it indicates a particular account having particular goals on a checklist so to speak and being able to accomplish those goals at least once.

I mostly stay away from groups that have any requirement, let alone an ap check. Fractals I’ve done on guard when group specifically asked for one, same goes for AC and my ele.

Game is too casual for me in so many respects that I would rather just take my time with everything I do. No pressure. I’ve chosen to play this game in a relaxed manner.

Currently sitting above 17k ap. That doesn’t mean I can react better in fights than someone who has 3k ap.

Honestly, when it comes to dungeons, I purposely treat them all as if I were playing them the first time and never really show my experience in them unless it starts falling apart which is rare enough. That’s when I will step up so to speak and offer suggestions. Pve to me has never been about min/maxing and being super organized. To me it’s about doing things together with other players. Some fights need organization ofc, but not to the point of exclusion because of inexperience. My view anyway.

No it’s not. It’s an indicator of participation and playtime. You participate in all the events. You participate in all aspects of the game (PvE, PvP, WvW). You do dailies and monthlies.

Now you can argue that level of participation and playtime should make someone really good. But they could just have been fortunate to tagalong with actual good players or their level of participation is autofiring 1 at everything.

When I see a lfg that looks promising the first thing i glance over is AP because its all the info the game gives me before I potentially waste my time. If I see any under 2-3k its a red flag, if these indicators add up too high its time to leave the party.

Other such indicators include not speaking(ignorable if its a guild group on their own voice comm.), having starter gear skins like pearl and draconic etc.., and not moving until I move indicating that they are just following whoever seems like they know what theyre doing. Oh, and bearbow.

Does it mean your going to be great at the game in every sphere of course not. I have had much more fun on most of my dungeon runs with very low AP players than with very high AP players. Most of the very high AP players I have found to be good guys, with one or two trolls which I hope never to see in this lifetime again! Dungeon runs with high AP players feel more serious and more business like. Iv left high AP parties in disgust on occasion, on the way a minority treat low AP players, without giving them a chance. No excuse whatsoever for bad behavior.

Up until very recently I have never asked for a AP rating on dungeon runs. Unfortunately with the nerfing of the troll in HotW P1, and being on the brunt end of party wipes and last man standing, anet has forced my hand in that instance to do so, mainly because with a moderate amount of AP there is a chance they know what they are doing. Let me tell you, I HATE having to do that, but can only play the hand anet deals me. Wether, it needing nerfing or not, im not going to go into, but there it is—-sorry if that upsets anyone out there.

But please don’t paint all high AP achievers with the same brush, just like in everything else, there are good apples and bad ones. Its just that they become more prominent when they have a lot of AP behind their name.

Up to a point, Ap does show you aren’t a total noob. if someone had 200 AP, they probably would slow the rest of the group. how ever someone with 2000 ap could be just as good as someone with 15000 ap.

If you have at least 1000, then there’s a much higher chance that you wont be a liability with someone with only say 300 ap.

a minimum of 1000 ap would be a reasonable request when youre trying to dungeon. but say, 5000 ap or higher, thats a useless requirement.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Astralporing.1957:

…i have seen enough legendary-wielding 10k+ AP players kissing the floor every two minutes to realize, that some players are just bad, and no amount of AP is going to change that.

…or they may be full-DPS glass canons who’re used to killing bosses in seconds with 25 stacks of might, perma fury, timewarps, blinds/aegis/reflects but go down if a PUG is not as coordinated as their usual guildies/friends party with Teamspeak/Skype.

Are they bad as players? No, they’re probably better players than many “casuals” because they’re playing with instincts that they’ve been sharpening for thousands of hours. Are they bad in suboptimal PUGs? You may say so, or you may say that the PUG is not good enough for them – it all depends on your mindset.

I used to measure the skill of my fellow healers in WoW by how well they could react to situations gone awry, not just by their healing output. Anyone can repeat a task endlessly until it becomes a mechanical second nature to them. I don’t believe that’s a measure of skill though. Skill is determined on a more moment to moment basis, how you react to different scenarios. So if a person is completely unable to react to a change in the way they’ve repetitively performed in their dungeon runs, then I’d argue they were never really skilled at all. I’m not saying the rest of the group isn’t also at fault for not performing at their best, but at least they can survive a bad situation. Whereas this person who only knows how to succeed in the most optimal scenario will likely immediately go down if something changes.

The first few, maybe 2-3 thousand AP do give you an indication whether this person has played this account before (assuming it’s not been bought off of … someplace).

After that, no relation to skill for a very long time. If you have someone with 20k AP I guess you can say they are dedicated/persistent.

AP matters – high AP means that you’ve spent a lot of time in the game and also that you consider the game important enough for you to spend that much time playing it.

Chances are if you care about it that much you might have cared enough to get good at it.

So yes – it matters when picking people for a run – I’ll always prefer a high-AP player over a low-AP player provided I have no other indicators for how they play.

Yes – there are very bad players with high AP.
Yes – there are very good players with low AP.

It’s all about probability – it’s more probable that a player with high AP will play well and a player with low AP will play badly.

It’s more of an indicator of time spent playing. However, while high AP doesn’t necessarily mean good player or vice versa, more time spent playing will usually mean a an experienced, savvy player who knows the in and outs of the game.

I’ve actually noticed near-opposite trends.

I find that those within the 3-6k range are actually the best players, often because those with over 6k usually either have no dedication to a particular aspect of the game, or simply played a lot of GW1.

With most of my parties with pugs, those with over 10k AP often have some kind of superiority complex and believe they never do anything wrong. Reality often demonstrates, however, that they play overly-selfish classes and builds and often find themselves dead or dying when being incapable of working with the rest of the team or expecting the rest of the team to work around keeping them alive.

I recently had a party in AC p1 where three of the other members had above 7k AP. The party took over two hours to get to the final boss and never finished the dungeon. I was heavily carrying the group alongside another player who only had 2.1k.

AP is but a mere measure of how much content one has plowed through. Nowhere does it present any effective yield of how well a player has mastered any of it.

DeceiverX.8361:

I’ve actually noticed near-opposite trends.

I find that those within the 3-6k range are actually the best players, often because those with over 6k usually either have no dedication to a particular aspect of the game, or simply played a lot of GW1.

With most of my parties with pugs, those with over 10k AP often have some kind of superiority complex and believe they never do anything wrong. Reality often demonstrates, however, that they play overly-selfish classes and builds and often find themselves dead or dying when being incapable of working with the rest of the team or expecting the rest of the team to work around keeping them alive.

I recently had a party in AC p1 where three of the other members had above 7k AP. The party took over two hours to get to the final boss and never finished the dungeon. I was heavily carrying the group alongside another player who only had 2.1k.

AP is but a mere measure of how much content one has plowed through. Nowhere does it present any effective yield of how well a player has mastered any of it.

I must say I agree with all of the above, with the current dungeon meta in place only being legally mentally dysfunctional would prevent a player from succeeding within a PUG concept.
While I and my guildies prefer not to follow the meta as it bores everybody with at least a half pea sized brain, I must agree it puts newer players in a position to succeed right off the bat when taking part in PUG dungeon runs… So seeing the community straying away from that exact principle by enforcing minimal AP on joining a group that’s about to perform something anyone who can follow simple instructions can do is most curious indeed.

Just over 8.5k AP i havent really been playing for a while (i came back only to see living story end and participate in those) I havent really actually played in 4 months now, with all these updates i have no idea how to do certain runs in certain dungeons anymore. I’m a example that AP means nothing… even more so living story was a huge AP boost.

I recommend avoiding any of these silly requirements given in the pugmachine. The people who ask for these requirements simply die too fast if their party isn’t constructed of what they need.

My advice: if you see a LFG ad demanding requirements like “zerk only” or minimum achievement points, just avoid it like the plague. It is a one-way ticket to a bad time.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Astralporing.1957:

…i have seen enough legendary-wielding 10k+ AP players kissing the floor every two minutes to realize, that some players are just bad, and no amount of AP is going to change that.

…or they may be full-DPS glass canons who’re used to killing bosses in seconds with 25 stacks of might, perma fury, timewarps, blinds/aegis/reflects but go down if a PUG is not as coordinated as their usual guildies/friends party with Teamspeak/Skype.

Ah, you mean they have just enough skill to be carried by a good team, but not enough skill to pull their own weight when necessary?
(and the last case i saw was a bunker AH guardian, by the way).

Think I got around 12K AP and I don’t see myself as very good at dungeons, I have just played this game alot.

ill have to say not entirely true, its been said the person who got 250k kills in wvw had only 2k ap, i have met ppl with 10 k ap who hasn’t done arah dungeons, and i have also met twilight wielders with 1 to 2 k ap.

So ap should also be considered as a reference to player ability not anything else ever.

i got over 18k ap and im a total pro…n stuff… (more or less)
okay just interesting that i stopped playing for achievement points half a year ago… xDD
anyway back to topic NO it is definetly NOT a good indicator if the player is experienced or not
why not searching for at least “title dungeon master” if you are looking for experienced players… okay i got mine about 4months after release
(since there were a few bugged paths..>__<)
but i still dont know how to do speedrun here..and there just because im heavily focusing on pvp …
also second accounts my not have the 5k mark or something…
it just means the player has spent a lot of time within the game
which doesnt mean hes skilled
a "2k ap at least level 80 and champion title from pvp) that would mean he knows what his class is capable of…or at least one build and some mobility…

the time spent and achievent point gatherers however often are quite good jumping puzzlers (at least most of them) so i could possibly see the ap being used as a reference in the super adventure box..
(even if it is in most cases solo the easiest and ill do it dou with a good friend just awesome to find out which flower blows up and which rock jumps in your face )

in case of dungoen running..
from time to time i do take part in such a party i know my skills what they do i know the enemies perfectly.. but what i dont know is where i am supposed to drag them (sure just stacking with teammates is almost enver wrong ..but still)
well yeh i would probly just ask for full exotic lvl 80 and just start quicker than the guys who are lf 10k ap
in fact i did it quite oftne at cof instead of full berserker ping gear 6k ap min ..blablah.. id join with my mes a p1 group and were half way through eb4 they start..
this whole zerker meta to run dungeons quicker is just kitten if you take up to 10minutes to even start.. rly^^

another thing…: i hate guys who post lfg fractals 49 8k ap when they (they where two) have together not even 9k…. just wtf?!?^^

The best one is, when you see something like “2,800 ap min” in description, like i just saw now. Because, you know, when you hit 2,800 ap, you all of sudden become qualified to do smooth TA run. lmao

serialkicker.5274:

The best one is, when you see something like “2,800 ap min” in description, like i just saw now. Because, you know, when you hit 2,800 ap, you all of sudden become qualified to do smooth TA run. lmao

2800? Thats just ridiculous! U need to have at least 5k ap for it! That guy was so kind to pick up some newbies on the road!

Windsagio.1340:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

All else being equal someone with more AP is more familiar with the game and statistically more likely to play better. By eliminating low AP and thus lower time played players you are more likely to complete the dungeon without any problem.

Note: Incoming comments from people who don’t understand statistics and use random anecdotal evidence to try and say i’m wrong. I will not respond to you, go back to school.

Mainly because of the somewhat combative tone of para 2, since you’re sure of the statistics, let’s see the numbers. This isn’t an expected but unsupported by research thing is it?

~~~

(I agree that a ton of AP makes it somewhat more likely you know what’s going on, but the whole ‘people don’t know statistics’ vs. the guy misusing the word ‘statistics’ was just too much to pass up)

Are you claiming that on average someone who has played the game for 2 hours has more knowledge of the game then someone who has played for 2000 hours? If that is your claim then I am going to have to say the burden of proof is on you. You don’t always need exact numbers to apply probability and statistics.

I don’t need numbers to tell you that it is statistically more likely you will be killed by a gunshot wound than a knife wound. Are the numbers out there somewhere? probably, but you can use basic logic in some situations to know the outcome without needing 20 studies to prove your point.

A college degree doesn’t mean that you know your profession but it increases the likely hood that you do when there isn’t much to go off of. Thats the idea behind AP requirements. Do I agree with them, no. Thats not to say that they aren’t completly baselesss metrics though.

VoiceOfUnreason.5976:

I used to measure the skill of my fellow healers in WoW by how well they could react to situations gone awry, not just by their healing output. Anyone can repeat a task endlessly until it becomes a mechanical second nature to them. I don’t believe that’s a measure of skill though. Skill is determined on a more moment to moment basis, how you react to different scenarios. So if a person is completely unable to react to a change in the way they’ve repetitively performed in their dungeon runs, then I’d argue they were never really skilled at all. I’m not saying the rest of the group isn’t also at fault for not performing at their best, but at least they can survive a bad situation. Whereas this person who only knows how to succeed in the most optimal scenario will likely immediately go down if something changes.

Is a wood carver who carves astounding sculptures out of best wood skillful? Yes.

Is a wood carver who carves good sculptures from any kind of wood skillful? Yes.

Yes, I agree that a downed-downed-downed-dead glass canon in a PUG is the last thing I want to see, and I agree that it’s not that hard to get some PVT armour for AC tokens and adapt if you’re in a PUG. But still, even performing repetitive tasks in a correct way (similar to carving) requires skill.

Astralporing.1957:

Lishtenbird.2814:

…or they may be full-DPS glass canons who’re used to killing bosses in seconds with 25 stacks of might, perma fury, timewarps, blinds/aegis/reflects but go down if a PUG is not as coordinated as their usual guildies/friends party with Teamspeak/Skype.

Ah, you mean they have just enough skill to be carried by a good team, but not enough skill to pull their own weight when necessary?
(and the last case i saw was a bunker AH guardian, by the way).

Let’s take an ascended zerker 10k AP+ ele. What’s he/she and his/her “elitist” party doing during a boss fight? Let’s suppose we have an ele, a mesmer, a guardian and 2 warriors.

1. Ele slots damage utilities instead of defensive.
2. Ele builds 12+ stacks of might plus fury with fire fields and attune rotations. Warriors blast fields with (different) banners.
3. Mesmer shares 12+ might with signet of inspiration for 25 might on all other players.
4. Mesmer drops a timewarp.
5. Ele conjures a Fiery Greatsword and uses 4 and 3 into a wall. A warrior grabs FGS and does the same.
6. Mesmer cleanses conditions and reflects heavy attacks, guardian provides stability and aegis so that ele can survive.
7. If the boss is still alive, ele rebuilds might and DPSes with a lightning hammer.

Now let’s replace other party members with a “play-how-you-want” bunker staff mesmer with Seed Turret and Take Root, a warrior in Giver’s armour, a guardian with a staff, and let’s put a condi necro who fears the boss out of the corner or a bearbow ranger instead of another warrior. So that’s what happens:

1. Ele builds might.
2. Ele drops FGS but no one grabs it.
3. Ele can’t FGS into the corner because a ranger’s pet dragged the boss away or it got feared away.
4. Ele switches into water in panic.
5. Ele dies.
6. Everyone else kite the boss for 10 minutes.

So… Are you still sure that perfect teamwork (with ele’s role mostly as a damage dealer in the trinity system) is the equivalent of “carrying”?

Fristly i do not count 6-10k AP as “low” AP..

Secondly i’ve been in a Frac.. lvl 2x for daily, had some guy with like 768 AP join.. u just KNOW he’s going to be bad.. no one with that low AP has had enough game play to create a smooth run in frac.. and guess what? he sucked.. died constantly.. was rubbish at his class.. dmg was close to non existant, had no clue what to do

i do not demand anything when i make dungeon groups, i take people as they come and i rarely kick anyone out (unless they are literally hindering the group to the point you cant progress) because i think its mean and if its something like COf/COe/Ac u can usually carry them through -_- , but AP can be an indicator of how much time someone has invested in the game, which means they are more likely to know their stuff

Ofc there is the odd person who has decent AP and sucks too, its not a perfect science but in some cases it gives you a general idea

I had this before. Looked in he lfg, saw one saying ‘min 8000 ap’. I joined with my 13000, spat out ‘ew. 8000? Noobz’, and left.

There’s no gear rating, so people have to judge by SOMETHING

Serophous.9085:

I had this before. Looked in he lfg, saw one saying ‘min 8000 ap’. I joined with my 13000, spat out ‘ew. 8000? Noobz’, and left.

There’s no gear rating, so people have to judge by SOMETHING

LOL, can imagine their faces at that

I only wish people would give low APs a chance.

If they show up properly geared (berserker exotics), appear communicative (tell they know the dungeon) and seem to know what they are doing (do short dungeon quiz!), then, why not?

Most likely they will contribute more than a staff spamming support Guardian which you seem to get in every run.