Guild Wars 2

Hi guys, I’ve read a lot of topics regarding people missing GW1 and all the world of Tyria as it was before. A lot of people thought it is because GW2 doesn’t have specific mechanics, others because GW1 was better planned and all.

Well, I thought about it a little bit, and I’ll try to give you an explanation that you may find true or not: it’s all about the way you feel, but I hope that I can help you to define those feels. In this topic I’ll use what I remember of GW1 to help my explanations with examples.

Let’s begin.

Nature: The key element about why you feel so nostalgic about GW1 is the total absence of any kind of technology. Indeed history teaches us that the more you develop technological stuff, the more people will become skeptical about what it can’t understand.
Technology is something that mankind builds for the sole sake of being useful to something: may it be scavenging, transporting, etc.
It usually doesn’t give the same feelings art do, though sometimes people like to build technological stuff out of an artistic ispiration.
Anyway, the key point here is that before the world of Tyria was more magical, if we want to say, more innocent, purer.
There was no technology then, besides the medieval inspired tech; everything else was possible because of magic.
Rituals, gods, mystical beasts were given for granted and accepted while exploring the world, and this was one of the best reasons why GW1 had such an ascendent on players.
It was a classical fantasy world. Wizards, demons, supernatural beings, all mixed together to create the world of Tyria.
Nowadays, why GW2 doesn’t feel as great?
Because people have changed. Because people reclaims technology as something that is necessary but still desperately wants magic to be possible.
Nowadays, we can see how the Black Citadel has become a concentrate of industrial life. How Rata Sum has developed holograms and an even more futuristic tech. Guns, rifles, flamelaunchers, warships, cannons and such have almost replaced the summoned fire from the formula of the mage, or the earth spell channeled by the mystic. Elixirs, potions, are starting to being used over healing magics.
Gods have abandoned this world, the races are transforming the landscapes forever. And also we have titanic creatures such as elder dragons now that gives us the feel that the world doesn’t matter anymore, that it is nothing, because they could easily destroy it.

This world has become too similar to our real world. The historical progression is way similar to ours, and after all I’ve always had this sensation since I read the lore.
Before, Tyria was like the Middle Age of our history, and now, after 250 years, we are going through what we could consider Renaissance and Industrial Revolution / Enlightenment. So the fantastic element is not as strong as before.
That’s why you feel nostalgic towards GW1: it gave you something precious for your person, something that helps you become a man: fantasy.
Lost that, you are left whith only one possible world before your eyes, and suddenly you feel limited.

Story: Another thing that influences the perception of the game is the way we go through personal history. Despite the difficulties that an author may encounter to create a story that fits every race and every possible origin, everything heads to only one possible explanation: Militaristic characters.
The overall personal development gives you the feel of being a soldier rather than a citizen, or a person. The problem is that in order to face the elder dragons, there was the need to create a great army. So everyone is no more an adventurer or a citizen. You are instead a soldier, and your only purpose in the game is to fight the dragons, and the enemies.
Now, of course in GW1 you did the same, but there was a key element here. The attitude and the way it is presented was different.
In GW1 the overall feeling was that of an adventurer who happens to help others and fight the great evil because during his adventures it met them. There was still a casual element that contributed to avoid this feel of predestined and forced.
In GW2 instead you are brought into action from the very beginning: it is a dynamic game, it has a world collapsing, so is somehow understandable that they want you to experience fight from the very beginning, but everything just yells this: “Fight, fight, fight”. And people treat you most ot the times like this: a fighter.
They focused more on the relationships between races then on the relationships between characters and world.
Only recently they have tried to create a living story that wasn’t only about fighting, but was about involving you in a murder case. It is welcomed, but it’s still too modern. In order to get the attention of people, there is the need of more stories like fairytales, where there is a drama, and there are very iconic characters that we can feel alive.
In GW1 there was Gwen. We followed Gwen’s life from her early ages until her youth, until she becomes the mature commander she was. Gwen really gives you a sensation of progression, and the tragedy of her story is well done. You get to feel sad for her.
In GW2 we probably can’t live this again, because now all the races are united, and the only way to feel involved is against the major treats. The scale of the events is way too big to feel compassionate for somebody. One thing was just Ascalon, but in the entire world, how can we be so concerned if they kill people who we didn’t know? Also the way they present them to us is just “casualties”.
But again there are a few exception. Tybalt. Tybalt is that character that just gets you with his kindness and cuteness, and shows some personality. He is indeed a person who wasn’t born to fight, was born in the wrong society (Charrs who are compassionate and passive?), and was forced in this war. But other than him, nothing.

Characters: The dynamic nature of the game requires dynamic characters. The problem is that in this way we don’t feel those characters as deep as they should be. Again, Tybalt is well done, but what about the others? Nothing.
The entire Destiny’s Edge doesn’t give you nothing: they are the example of these characters created just to have some strong and typical figures who end up in being too stereotyped. Again, lack of personality.
Also, we often meet characters who treat this war like it was nothing, trying to lower the atmosphere of epicness with their soooo foregone irony.
This speech lowers the quality of the game, reducing drastically the involvment.
Almost every major character behaves like it must have the last word.
There is somekind of egocentric way that makes you feel sorrounded by guys too full of themselves.
Where is the struggle? Everyone behaves like the task is already done, and when they try to give it some importance, the struggle itself end up in being too easy.
In GW1 you could somehow feel not too strong, but not too weak neither.
In GW2 you feel too strong or too weak.

Expansions: This is something we can’t talk about yet because GW1 showed us other cultures, other civilizations, making us explore other sides of the world of Tyria. It was beautiful because we could explore other places and meet other people, not only the classical fantasy world, but also an oriental and a Middle East / african world.
Unless you are a bigot, you enjoy doing the same in the real world too. It’s called curiousity and gives us this feeling that what we don’t know, we want to know.
Plus, GW1 was based on the real world cultures, just presented in a more mythological way, and this is what was one of its strong points.
GW2, instead, is acting like a general mix of everything, where indeed we don’t have the possibility to look at the original places. We are stuck in Tyria, we know that for now we cannot go anywhere, so we somehow feel pressed and limited, and of course we don’t like it.
Moreover, when first playing Prophecies, we couldn’t know they were going to expand the already existing world, and when Factions came out, it was a big surprise.
After all, in GW1 we already had almost all the possible environments: plain, mountains, snow, desert, volcano, forest and jungle.
In order to expand everything, they had to create new continents, or else everything in Tyria would have been too repetitive.
But here, on GW2, there was a regression. Even the existing world of Tyria is limited to us, and most of the areas we could explore before are closed.
We can no longer go to a desertic place, or a pure magmatic place, or in a jungle: instead we have the continent of Orr which is a good way to present an aquatic ambience. We can also go underwater for that matter, so somehow they gave us underwater worlds for what we can’t have now.
The problem is that underwater worlds are not so different like surface worlds, so it gives always the same feeling.
It also means that we can expect these areas to get unlocked in the future, probably thanks to a living story passage (because an expansion for these areas is way too wasted). But we already know these places from the previuos game and the only reason to go there is to see what has changed in 250 years. So basically it’s like giving us the illusion of something new while indeed it is something we already know with just some differences.
One of the strong points in GW1 was the exploration because the world is well done and resembles the real one, though it has that fantasy appeal. It didn’t have this geometrical divison neither, making it more natural and less forced. That’s why you liked it.
Here in GW2 the world is way too small. We have more actions and more ways to walk, but we lack quantity. Also the way each area is divided seems way too forced: there are big rocks or mountains everywhere, forming a squared area. It doesn’t feel right.
Also we had the possibility to visit other continents, while now we are forced to stay here (just for now we hope), so it’s like looking at the big picture and then being able to see just a corner of the painting.

I think you might be making this a bit too complex. People don’t like change. It really is that simple. There are many people on this forum who loved Prophecies and said by the time Nightfall came out, Anet had effectively destroyed the game.

Most of those who started in Nightfall thought Prophecies was too slow.

Those who started after Eye of the North and got used to PvE only skills hated the game without them (and without heroes). People don’t like change.

What many Guild Wars 1 players wanted was Guild Wars 1 with better graphics. Not a different game. What they got was a different game.

You claim Guild Wars 1 characters were more likable than Guild Wars 2 characters. I don’t know. I don’t know many people who had a love affair with Komir. I don’t think people universally liked Prince Rurik. In fact, I know many who were happy he was dead. As one dimensional characters go, he was up there.

And I know people didn’t love Togo either. Some did, but many didn’t.

Eye of the North probably had the best characters in the game, but I know a whole lot of people who don’t like Gwen.

But we knew them better because the game was instanced, so they could be with us in the game world, not just instances. And that’s part of the problem with telling a story in an MMO.

Now people who started with Guild Wars 2 and never played Guild Wars 1 have a different opinion and if they went and tried Guild Wars 1, I’m pretty sure most wouldn’t like it.

It’s like Star Trek. I was a fan of the original series, long before Next Generation came out. And while I really enjoyed Next Generation, I’ll always have a soft spot in my heart for the original series. The writing wasn’t better. The acting wasn’t better. The special effects weren’t better…but the second series couldn’t have existed without the first.

Those who started watching Star Trek with the Next Generation often can’t stand the original series.

It’s all about experience and perception. You don’t need more than that to explain it.

I have to admit I didn’t read all of the OPs points, I got through a post and a half without agreeing with a single thing and decided I’d almost certainly have the same reaction to the rest of it.

Honestly I’m skeptical about how much these people really miss GW1. Like GW2 the game is buy to play, there’s no subscription and the servers are still running so if they really want to they can go back at any time.

And sure, if you log on to GW1 chances are you’ll encounter a few bitter peopl ranting about GW2 in the main cities, but not nearly as many as there seem to be here talking about how much better it was. Which suggests to me that for whatever reason they’re not opting to go and play the game they apparently prefer.

And kind of related to that point I think a lot of it is nostalgia more than anything. Every so often I find myself thinking I miss GW1 and that certain things were so much better in that game. But then when I start playing it again (which I do every so often) I find myself frustrated by things that were changed for GW2. Yes it’s nice to be able to map travel for free, but it’s a lot nicer to be able to log off in the middle of a zone and not have to start from the begining (especially in Prophecies where some zones are a long way from an outpost), or to be able to stop off at any heart NPC or other vendor and empty my inventory without going back to a town or outpost. And being able to move in combat!

I loved GW1 and played it regularly for 5 years. I still do love it for what it is. But given the choice (and fully aware I have that choice, I’m reminded every time I log in to GW2 because the GW1 icon is right above it on my desktop) I’ve chosen to play GW2 instead the vast majority of times.

Edit: Also I don’t think people are that oblivious to their own thoughts and feelings. The majority of people who say they prefer GW1 have not brought up any of these points, except for occasionally complaining about the quality of the story-telling. I think if someone says they miss heroes or the ability to choose all their own skills or instanced explorable areas chances are that is what they miss, rather than misinterpreting their feelings about the level of technology in Tyria.

Vayne.8563:

What many Guild Wars 1 players wanted was Guild Wars 1 with better graphics. Not a different game. What they got was a different game.

Indeed, that’s exactly what people wanted, for better or worse they didn’t get what they want.

Danikat.8537:

Honestly I’m skeptical about how much these people really miss GW1. Like GW2 the game is buy to play, there’s no subscription and the servers are still running so if they really want to they can go back at any time.

And sure, if you log on to GW1 chances are you’ll encounter a few bitter peopl ranting about GW2 in the main cities, but not nearly as many as there seem to be here talking about how much better it was. Which suggests to me that for whatever reason they’re not opting to go and play the game they apparently prefer.

To give me my perspective, if I may.

I played GW1 for 6 years, managed GWAMM and 50/50. I’ve gotten everything out of that game I wanted. The only thing left for me, is to relive memories. I don’t really enjoy playing it anymore just like I don’t want to go back to that ex-girlfriend I still love.

I’m very happy for GW2 to be an entirely different game. If it were merely GW1.5 like so many unimaginative sequels, I probably wouldn’t be here anymore. On the other hand, there’s enough GW1 left for me to enjoy. To carry the ex-girlfriend analogy further, I like brown hair. But apart from that, my current partner doesn’t resemble my ex in any way. That’s good.

Syrpharon.7491:

This world has become too similar to our real world. The historical progression is way similar to ours, and after all I’ve always had this sensation since I read the lore.
Before, Tyria was like the Middle Age of our history, and now, after 250 years, we are going through what we could consider Renaissance and Industrial Revolution / Enlightenment. So the fantastic element is not as strong as before.
That’s why you feel nostalgic towards GW1: it gave you something precious for your person, something that helps you become a man: fantasy.
Lost that, you are left whith only one possible world before your eyes, and suddenly you feel limited.

Nah, with respect to the “real world” it’s more like the so-called technological singularity that Tyria is going through. Only thing is the singularity is theoretical and we haven’t went through it yet. However, it is “near,” according to Ray Kerzweil. Read his book, “The Singularity is Near,” hahah. It’s a good read, really.

Oh about books, with respect to what you have said in the above quoted and other parts of your post, read “Future Shock” by Alvin Toffler. That’s a good one.

I think i should not be posting a reply, since my ideia of this game is awfull (worse mmo i ever played so far).

-Bad skill, classes and mechanics with small deathmatch WvW maps ,in my opinon map design sould never be adopted with the deathmatch design, siege is other thing that needs to be reworked altough is getting fixed by time, wvw ranks made me start to avoid WvW at all since was the only insteresting thing gw2(and even WvW is a bad game mode due how the game is limited).

- Dragons arent anything special has i tough would it be, lore is friendly but story progression is clumsy, the only good point i found in story is while on the human city but thats all it has to offer.

Danikat.8537:

I have to admit I didn’t read all of the OPs points, I got through a post and a half without agreeing with a single thing and decided I’d almost certainly have the same reaction to the rest of it.

Honestly I’m skeptical about how much these people really miss GW1. Like GW2 the game is buy to play, there’s no subscription and the servers are still running so if they really want to they can go back at any time.

And sure, if you log on to GW1 chances are you’ll encounter a few bitter peopl ranting about GW2 in the main cities, but not nearly as many as there seem to be here talking about how much better it was. Which suggests to me that for whatever reason they’re not opting to go and play the game they apparently prefer.

And kind of related to that point I think a lot of it is nostalgia more than anything. Every so often I find myself thinking I miss GW1 and that certain things were so much better in that game. But then when I start playing it again (which I do every so often) I find myself frustrated by things that were changed for GW2. Yes it’s nice to be able to map travel for free, but it’s a lot nicer to be able to log off in the middle of a zone and not have to start from the begining (especially in Prophecies where some zones are a long way from an outpost), or to be able to stop off at any heart NPC or other vendor and empty my inventory without going back to a town or outpost. And being able to move in combat!

I loved GW1 and played it regularly for 5 years. I still do love it for what it is. But given the choice (and fully aware I have that choice, I’m reminded every time I log in to GW2 because the GW1 icon is right above it on my desktop) I’ve chosen to play GW2 instead the vast majority of times.

Edit: Also I don’t think people are that oblivious to their own thoughts and feelings. The majority of people who say they prefer GW1 have not brought up any of these points, except for occasionally complaining about the quality of the story-telling. I think if someone says they miss heroes or the ability to choose all their own skills or instanced explorable areas chances are that is what they miss, rather than misinterpreting their feelings about the level of technology in Tyria.

It is also nostalgia indeed, but here I’ve tried to explain why that nostalgia has happened.
Also, in the premise I’ve said that I wanted to leave away people who were talking about missing a specific part of the game, such as game design, mechanics, etc. because it obviously has to do with the system. I’m refeering here to those guys who said they’ve got nostalgic for GW1 but don’t really have a particular reason, they just point out “Ah, the good old times”.
If they knew what they missed about GW1 they would probably say it, instead sometimes they just say it was better and that’s all.
Here I’ve tried to examine the thing and try to figure it out to make it visible and why not, help everyone, players and devs, in any way it can help.