Guild Wars 2

Why do players feel that they are entitled to achievements and the associated rewards?

Achievements used to be a fun sense of accomplishing content. Go do XXX content, get a “You completed XXX, congratulations!” and then go about doing whatever it was that you were doing. Slayer types are the most random of these as we adventures slash our way through the countryside killing everything in site.

However, lately achievements have become a hassle. It’s not that they’re more complicated and/or grind-tastic. That’s not the case. Instead achievements have turned the community upside down.

• “But I need the achievement for my next chest.”

• “I hate this content, but I need XXXX achievement.”

• “Bleh! They really shouldn’t make PvP achievements for a PvE game.”

This is the sour taste of people who apparently hate certain pieces of content, but put themselves through it just to get +5-10 achievement points. Ever heard the term “one rotten apple spoils the whole bunch”? Well, this kind of constant complaining in team/map chat while players are enjoying the game,…well that makes the game less enjoyable. It gets to the point where one wishes they could just do a /votekick and make the complainers leave the game by popular vote.

• “Can someone let me win for the achievement?”

• “Dude, stop griefing! I want the achievement too!”

• “Let’s just swap kills/wins for the achievements.”

Poor sportsmanship. Every mini-game that has come out since the beginning of the year has been plagued with self-centered attitudes. These mini-games are a type of Player-vs-Player (or ‘Team-vs-Team’) challenge. It seems that those achievement chasers try to avoid playing the content as designed, to the best of their abilities; instead opting to cheat their way to some more +achievement numbers.

Definition time:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/achievement

achieve·ment
noun \?-?ch?v-m?nt\
Definition of ACHIEVEMENT
1: the act of achieving : accomplishment
2a : a result gained by effort b : a great or heroic deed
3: the quality and quantity of a student’s work

That seems kind of contradictory of the attitudes within the game as of late. Doesn’t it? What’s one really accomplishing by begging for someone to allow them to kill them or give them first place? Is it really a heroic deed by cheating the system to cause only a single mob to spawn out of what’s designed to be ‘waves’ of them?

A player does not need every achievement in the game.
A person is not forced to do content they don’t want to do, save for by their own will.
Achievements are rewards for accomplishing content completion within the game.
Achievements are EARNED, not handed out.
Achievements are not a requirement, only a want by personal/self reasoning.

@cesmode
Or maybe people just need to a take a kitten chill pill. Its a game, not a job.

The issue isn’t with Anet, its with the players.

They see us working away at the list of achievements they gave us ‘just because’ and they opt to reward us for time spent. Now, because there are rewards, a bunch of people that could give a kitten less before suddenly want the achieves? Ha! Sounds like a personal problem to me. They weren’t ‘good enough’ before because they didn’t give you the shinies? Sorry, but that’s pathetic.

We are the ones that cry ‘gimme gimme gimme’ and ANet attempts to comply. When they do, we holler and whine that what we wanted wasn’t handed to us on a silver platter, like spoiled children.

The players and their attitudes are the issue that needs to be fixed. Understanding that in a game you may not necessarily get everything. That if you don’t get something you want but someone else does, you accept it with grace and either move on or keep trying. That an ‘achievement’ should be earned (oh dear gods what a concept), not handed to you (Back to the spoiled child syndrome here). Sure, once in a while people are going to take the path of least resistance – a Mesmer port, the hand out, etc, that’s fine…just don’t expect it all the kitten time and again, this resides solely on the player. Only the player can choose to not be an entitled brat.

When players run out of things to do, they try to become entitled to believe they are the best. Wearing Obsidian Armor and Glowing White gloves in GW1 meant you spent hundreds of plat for the same gear, and people did it constantly while complaining. People did this for some sense of “Time Sinker” and something to do while waiting for their next fix of content/ lore or new gear to farm.

Finding yourself turned off by other people’s opinion is pure bandwagon. If someone complains that a boss event I did was boring, I say “Not to me” and continue on.

People find themselves searching for the next thing to do, and the pessimistic attitude may be the only thing that stops them from doing much more negative things, such as spamming, flipping in the auction house, and generally stopping playing. Some people need to complain about everything, who are you to stop them?

This whole thread seems to be revolved around the fact that YOU care about what OTHER people say on the internet. Do not let your opinion be influenced by others. That is all I can really say.

This is what happens when you add a prize to the achievements. Because the prize is available people want it right away. They feel they can’t wait. I’ve seen it with achievement titles as well. Someone mails someone else a bunch of gold so they can get the “Golden” title. Look at the “Combat Healer” title. Do you think most people with that title went out of their was rez 1000 other players? It is more likely they farmed downed NPCs.

Now there are chests with shineys tied to it and people “have” to have it right now.

unfortunetly obtaining achievement is a wy to showing one’s dedications towards the game. If you keep on doing things mindless you wil burn your self out.

Yes some achievement are soooo dull thakittens better to get help then actually do them by your self.

to a certain extent you are right but to others you are not. For example the keg brawler, costume and the drinking games are soo poorley thought out since not many do this kind of cntent and that it would be easier to get a friend to assist.

also now they provided more motivation into obtaining achievement oints then why stop us in doing them.

This has actually completely broken Keg Brawl. You now have more than half the players of any full match of Keg Brawl leaving the arena to farm achievement points. It’s disgusting.

Mustafa.7684:

unfortunetly obtaining achievement is a wy to showing one’s dedications towards the game. If you keep on doing things mindless you wil burn your self out.

Yes some achievement are soooo dull thakittens better to get help then actually do them by your self.

to a certain extent you are right but to others you are not. For example the keg brawler, costume and the drinking games are soo poorley thought out since not many do this kind of cntent and that it would be easier to get a friend to assist.

also now they provided more motivation into obtaining achievement oints then why stop us in doing them.

You’re wrong. They’re not poorly thought out mini games at all. I made a guild out of people who enjoy Keg Brawl, so whatever point you tried to make is moot. The fact of the matter is that people are coming in and spoiling the enjoyment of others by exploiting or otherwise playing the game in a way it was NOT intended to be played.

Wing Leigh.3795:

When players run out of things to do, they try to become entitled to believe they are the best. Wearing Obsidian Armor and Glowing White gloves in GW1 meant you spent hundreds of plat for the same gear, and people did it constantly while complaining. People did this for some sense of “Time Sinker” and something to do while waiting for their next fix of content/ lore or new gear to farm.

Finding yourself turned off by other people’s opinion is pure bandwagon. If someone complains that a boss event I did was boring, I say “Not to me” and continue on.

People find themselves searching for the next thing to do, and the pessimistic attitude may be the only thing that stops them from doing much more negative things, such as spamming, flipping in the auction house, and generally stopping playing. Some people need to complain about everything, who are you to stop them?

This whole thread seems to be revolved around the fact that YOU care about what OTHER people say on the internet. Do not let your opinion be influenced by others. That is all I can really say.

As far as Keg Brawl is concerned, it’s actually in a very practical sense getting in the way of others’ enjoyment by breaking or denying gameplay.

I love complainers.

Nothing makes me happier then grabbing an arrow and headshotting them at the start of every game.

All I can say is:

1 – You can block chat rather than hope for a system that “allows you to kick people out of the game”.

2 – Hate the game or the way it’s made not the players….ask why some of these achievements are put into the game when Anet should surely know it will cause issues like this.

3 – Despite their best efforts griefing exists in this game – via any new minigame that comes in when players can simply do the BEST that they can to ANNOY other players and stop them from earning certain achievements. They can then turn around and simply say “Anet want’s us to play this game this way!”

I already hate the radiant gloves because everyone else has one.

The whole idea of “achievement rewards” was smelling bad for me since the very first day when they announced it. Reward for doing achievements should be achievements themselves and thats it. Using them as a form of currency to obtain shiny stuff undermines the whole concept. I guess I look like a whiner since I complain that Arena delivered some “free stuff” and I guess there is some truth to that. It just an opinion however and mine is that the game would be better if they would never introduced those AP chests. I also agree with OP here. To each his own I suppose.

Paulytnz.7619:

All I can say is:

1 – You can block chat rather than hope for a system that “allows you to kick people out of the game”.

2 – Hate the game or the way it’s made not the players….ask why some of these achievements are put into the game when Anet should surely know it will cause issues like this.

3 – Despite their best efforts griefing exists in this game – via any new minigame that comes in when players can simply do the BEST that they can to ANNOY other players and stop them from earning certain achievements. They can then turn around and simply say “Anet want’s us to play this game this way!”

Lol, are you actually saying that the people who want to play the game the way it was designed to be played are griefers?

You see it mostly with the living story achievements because they’re limited. Players have a short time to do something they don’t want to do in order to “finish” it.

Now we have rewards, so again, people are trying to do things they don’t want to do in order to get things they want.

It’s all about giving general rewards to the game through content that many people want nothing to do with.

I don’t think the problem is as much with the players as with the achievement system itself. General rewards, whether it be a skin or a number, shouldn’t be added up as a single entity. Each individual aspect of the game should be kept separate.

Serelisk.6573:

This has actually completely broken Keg Brawl. You now have more than half the players of any full match of Keg Brawl leaving the arena to farm achievement points. It’s disgusting.

Uhh, I haven’t been in Keg Brawl for months now, but what exactly are you talking about? How does one “leave the arena”?

This was going on far before any actual rewards beyond abstract achievement points and titles. Remember all the whining back during the Halloween and Wintersday events?

The good thing about an Achievement system is that it provides both time sinks, time gating, and skill gating, all without actually denying people without skill or time from seeing any of the content. The problem is all these low skill people with massively inflated senses of entitlement just cannot fathom that the game wasn’t designed for them alone… and it is not good enough that they are not being locked out of content due to their skill level, but that they are being locked out of having a few more abstract “Achievement points” and titles.

However it is a good point that the Achievement rewards spur these low skill players with massively inflated senses of entitlement to go into overdrive with their whining. It just sucks that they are so adamant about trying to ruin everyone else’s fun because they just can’t be without those extra achievement points. Keep your OCD obsessions to yourself please, we don’t want it polluting all these channels of communication.

Zaxares.5419:

Serelisk.6573:

This has actually completely broken Keg Brawl. You now have more than half the players of any full match of Keg Brawl leaving the arena to farm achievement points. It’s disgusting.

Uhh, I haven’t been in Keg Brawl for months now, but what exactly are you talking about? How does one “leave the arena”?

Just hop the fence.

And what do they do after that? Just pass kegs to each other repeatedly?

Zaxares.5419:

And what do they do after that? Just pass kegs to each other repeatedly?

Pretty much.

Charak.9761:

I already hate the radiant gloves because everyone else has one.

And I love wooden swords because nobody else uses them. And I’m not talking about wintersday weapons, I’m talking straight up a “wooden sword.”http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wooden_Sword :D

JustTrogdor.7892:

This is what happens when you add a prize to the achievements. Because the prize is available people want it right away. They feel they can’t wait. I’ve seen it with achievement titles as well. Someone mails someone else a bunch of gold so they can get the “Golden” title. Look at the “Combat Healer” title. Do you think most people with that title went out of their was rez 1000 other players? It is more likely they farmed downed NPCs.

Now there are chests with shineys tied to it and people “have” to have it right now.

+1

I had the “Combat Healer” title within the first 3-4 months of the game (might have been less, I wasn’t really paying attention; I don’t use titles.) Didn’t even know what it meant. I was just playing the game and loving the fact that I could help the community by reviving downed players. No reward other than the good feeling that I was part of something bigger, something helpful and friendly.

I agree with the sentiment that attaching rewards (to things that could just be part of regular play) will incent some players to behaviors that aren’t always in the best interest of the game overall, nor the community.

It’s always sad to see community spirit devolve as intrinsic motivation disappears . And I’ve given feedback on that to the devs.

That is gaming nowadays.

Blame Microsoft.

Serelisk.6573:

Paulytnz.7619:

All I can say is:

1 – You can block chat rather than hope for a system that “allows you to kick people out of the game”.

2 – Hate the game or the way it’s made not the players….ask why some of these achievements are put into the game when Anet should surely know it will cause issues like this.

3 – Despite their best efforts griefing exists in this game – via any new minigame that comes in when players can simply do the BEST that they can to ANNOY other players and stop them from earning certain achievements. They can then turn around and simply say “Anet want’s us to play this game this way!”

Lol, are you actually saying that the people who want to play the game the way it was designed to be played are griefers?

No, I am saying there are some people who play these mini games just to grief others for the fun of it.

Example, some noob playing the sprint minigame not even bothering to finish the race and sit (camp) near the last set of jumps just to “push” others off over and over so that they can’t finish the race unless they are lucky enough to get past this part with a light travel pick up.

Another example was in the dragon bash game where some players would just camp spawn points and kill you over and over just for the heck of it.

I have seen players do both these things and other such things.

You can not deny people WILL abuse parts of game for the fun of it just because they can. Remember those in WvW who would place siege in the JP’s? Same thing, they were not there trying to complete the JP but to stop other players from doing so and they had found ways that could not be countered, thus – griefing.

At what point do you reach ‘entitlement’ and not a simple sense of designing a game to provide people with what they want?

In other words, are people wrong to want these achievements, and is it up to the people to change, or up to Anet to take into consideration how people react to time-limited, reward-offering achievements?

I’m an achievement kitten and I have been since the beginning of the game. I’ve made it my goal to get all the achievements. Unfortunately, I’m also rather busy and some of the content I have to go through to get those achievements I don’t like. Now, am I wrong to want the achievements? It is true that I’m currently playing that Survival game with the pure intent to get the achievements, instead of just enjoying the game-mode. I don’t like it that I do that, but I do like the sense of completion I get after I get all the achievements.

I could give up on that, but it is a somewhat difficult decision, I have to pick between 2 things I both like, and right now I’m choosing the achievements. Are there solutions that can solve this conundrum?

JustTrogdor.7892:

This is what happens when you add a prize to the achievements. Because the prize is available people want it right away. They feel they can’t wait. I’ve seen it with achievement titles as well. Someone mails someone else a bunch of gold so they can get the “Golden” title. Look at the “Combat Healer” title. Do you think most people with that title went out of their was rez 1000 other players? It is more likely they farmed downed NPCs.

Now there are chests with shineys tied to it and people “have” to have it right now.

So you are saying that resing NPC’s shouldn’t count? What about the players who boosted this title by having their friends suicide over and over simply because it was a lot faster than finding Npc’s to res?

I don’t fit into this category at all but the new rewards system did get me out to do some content I might have otherwise left alone.

I mostly spend time in WvW but I do not mind exploring the regular maps for things I need or to complete some achievements.

The content I just can’t get into is with the living story though. I am not a dungeon player and will never bother to do it but the living story was more accessible when it was first introduced. Now it feels forced and largely more complicated to pick up when you are doing other things and want to participate even at a leisurely level.

In the most recent segments I feel as if the PvE players are in another game entirely from the one I am playing. I don’t think of this as entitlement as much as it is like being on the outside looking in. I find it much harder to get involved in the living story content without giving up a great deal of other things I do in the game and when I do choose to get involved the living story content seems awkward and confusing to follow for me anyway.

This might have more to do with how each new patch seems to be overlapping with the previous one or two and if you did not participate in those ones the feeling of being out of the loop is much larger and perhaps even overwhelming for some people.

Here is why your argument is flawed.

You forgot to factor in two things, TIME & REWARDS.

You see, before a few weeks ago, doing the “Slayer” achievement was just something to work towards as you were playing. If the little icon popped up on the screen, you would be like, “Oh, cool.”

However, now things are different. That “Slayer” achievement helps you get stuff like gear, and gold. What was once a casual achievement that gave you some interesting feedback, is now something that directly affects you.

Not only that, but take the Living Story achievements.

These are multiple achievements, that are required to obtain better gear, gold, and resources. They are also only available for a limited time.

So, if you’re wondering why suddenly people are complaining. It isn’t because they feel entitled, it is because they feel pressured.

That said, I’m going to address your list:

A player does not need every achievement in the game.

A player does not NEED to play this game at all. We WANT to play this game and that is a big distinction. We’re not getting paid to play this game, we choose to because we enjoy it. To say we don’t need something is pointing out the obvious.

A person is not forced to do content they don’t want to do, save for by their own will.

Of course, so what is your point? Again, this game is something we want do to. If there is no desire to play the game (get the achievements set out by ANet) then why waste time? Your argument makes no sense, because my own will is an important enough reason.

Achievements are rewards for accomplishing content completion within the game.

Of course they are, and most people have no problem doing them. The problem, as I said above is that when the rewards are tied to a timeline, players must start assessing time vs. reward.

If the reward doesn’t justify the time required, then players will look for alternative ways of accomplishing the goal. They will take the easy route.

Achievements are EARNED, not handed out.

Again, most players are perfectly willing to earn their own achievements, because they enjoy playing the game. However, again…you’ve completely neglected to put this into context.

Achievements are not a requirement, only a want by personal/self reasoning.

You’re repeating yourself. Lets put aside the fact that this is a want, and not a need for a moment.

Achievements ARE a requirement. If you don’t gain achievements, you will not get the latest and greatest rewards. If you choose not to, or are unable to complete a task, you run the risk of missing out on the reward.

The closer to that reward players get, the more desperate they become. They see the clock ticking down, and they see the amount they have ahead of them. They start to feel that if they don’t find some way to get the rewards (within the time they can, or feel they can dedicate to it), then all they have done to that point has been, in some ways a waste.

This is not a hard concept to understand.

Take university for example. People want educations. The university sets out achievements you must earn, but puts a time limit on them. As you become more financially and emotionally involved, the more at stake you have to lose if you don’t complete it.

This is why students are super stressed. They want to graduate, they want the achievements, and some…not able to complete them will resort to cheating, corner cutting, and/or otherwise cheating the system to earn it.

So, you need to understand that the reason that people are complaining is because they are faced with a new dilemma every two weeks. How do they accomplish the goals in the game that they have chosen to play, and what hurdles do they face?

Make sense?

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

That said, I’m going to address your list:

A player does not need every achievement in the game.

A player does not NEED to play this game at all. We WANT to play this game and that is a big distinction. We’re not getting paid to play this game, we choose to because we enjoy it. To say we don’t need something is pointing out the obvious.

A person is not forced to do content they don’t want to do, save for by their own will.

Of course, so what is your point? Again, this game is something we want do to. If there is no desire to play the game (get the achievements set out by ANet) then why waste time? Your argument makes no sense, because my own will is an important enough reason.

Achievements are rewards for accomplishing content completion within the game.

Of course they are, and most people have no problem doing them. The problem, as I said above is that when the rewards are tied to a timeline, players must start assessing time vs. reward.

If the reward doesn’t justify the time required, then players will look for alternative ways of accomplishing the goal. They will take the easy route.

Achievements are EARNED, not handed out.

Again, most players are perfectly willing to earn their own achievements, because they enjoy playing the game. However, again…you’ve completely neglected to put this into context.

Achievements are not a requirement, only a want by personal/self reasoning.

You’re repeating yourself. Lets put aside the fact that this is a want, and not a need for a moment.

Achievements ARE a requirement. If you don’t gain achievements, you will not get the latest and greatest rewards. If you choose not to, or are unable to complete a task, you run the risk of missing out on the reward.

The closer to that reward players get, the more desperate they become. They see the clock ticking down, and they see the amount they have ahead of them. They start to feel that if they don’t find some way to get the rewards (within the time they can, or feel they can dedicate to it), then all they have done to that point has been, in some ways a waste.

This is not a hard concept to understand.

Take university for example. People want educations. The university sets out achievements you must earn, but puts a time limit on them. As you become more financially and emotionally involved, the more at stake you have to lose if you don’t complete it.

This is why students are super stressed. They want to graduate, they want the achievements, and some…not able to complete them will resort to cheating, corner cutting, and/or otherwise cheating the system to earn it.

So, you need to understand that the reason that people are complaining is because they are faced with a new dilemma every two weeks. How do they accomplish the goals in the game that they have chosen to play, and what hurdles do they face?

Make sense?

Absolutely agree with this. I often find myself not doing much of the Living Story because it isn’t the part of the game I enjoy. However, people who are semi-OCD or don’t want to miss out on certain achieves and rewards, for instance lets say, the gift of quartz, which may have much more significance in the future of the game than it does now, are being pressured by the fact that these things are available for 2-4 weeks and if you are a casual player, this is not always doable.

Because so many of the achievements are not requiring that you win the game but that you play as it is intended (crystal picking up in Sprint) and participate occasionally, Anet is addressing this. That being said, if a group of people in an arena are selfless enough to let others win so that they can get the achievement/title, kudos to them. That’s good karma, (real karma) and that’s a nice thing to do for someone who struggles with PvP like arenas, such as Mario Kar- Sanctum Sprint, and Aspect Arena. If you enter an arena and the people there are doing this, just leave and enter a new one. Not every single one is doing this, but let the people have their fun. If a group of 12 people are attempting to get everyone the achieves, those are 12 people who are working together and who approve of this method. Just because you do not does not mean everyone else is wrong.

Siphaed.9235:

…Go do XXX content, get a “You completed XXX, congratulations!” …

my girlfriend never says: congratulations when we complete xxx content

“You don’t need to level to 80 to enjoy the game. It’s optional.”

Achievements are now a form of progression. If you dislike people feeling the need to progress or quit the game because they can’t. Then maybe the problem is not with them.

Do you get annoyed that people crafted their way to 80 whilst you slogged it through heart quests and/or wvw too?

Serelisk.6573:

Lol, are you actually saying that the people who want to play the game the way it was designed to be played are griefers?

Anet devs should not feel entitled to plaudits when they produce POS mini games like Keg Brawl and played only by 1% the 1337 Pvpers and not expect their mini game to be achievement farmed. Thats right 1% of the 1337ists not the general population.

Anet should release the number of players of playing Keg Brawl during its peak time on their website to settle the matter objectively.

Next thing you know QQs about the Slayer achieves, followed by daily achieves, almost every achieve.

Coarr.3286:

Siphaed.9235:

…Go do XXX content, get a “You completed XXX, congratulations!” …

my girlfriend never says: congratulations when we complete xxx content

Sounds to me like you’re getting bronze, maybe even silver, but haven’t quite reached gold on that event yet.

Everyone is seriously over-inflating the value of the Achievement chest rewards. You can make infinitely more gold, badges etc. by just playing the game and not concerning yourself with achievements at all.

10k Achievement points for 30g is laughable. If I really forced myself, I could make 30g in a day by farming dungeons. In doing so, I might end up with a whopping 2 or 3 more AP from occasional Daily overlaps or something. Same goes with Gems (conversion from Gold) and Laurels are not that difficult to come by. 500AP for 1 Laurel and 1000AP for 2 Laurels…Daily and Monthly Laurels accelerate WAY past that.

People have been spoiled by getting a chest every day and now they want it to be the norm. The chests are a tiny little bonus to say “well done, now go outside for a bit”. They’re hardly rewarding in any big sense of the word.

i can’t help myself, i never cared about any form of achievement in the game. or else, i did, casually, or as something different to do while i was alone and bored. so i completed a lot of them and there are some i want to complete because i enjoy, like the fashion one, i could do with “emperor” title (even if queen would be better for my male character^^).
anyway, i know those achievement are there and in time i can complete them all, even the mini collector.
i don’t enjoy keg brawl very much, so i do it when daily pop up, i try to play the game as intended while i try also to complete that daily. i feel no rush in completing any of the keg brawl achievement and i don’t care about achievement chest, i like them and i’m happy they exist now, but i don’t feel the urge to get one anytime soon.

but as living story is concerned i can’t help myself. no matter how much i try to convince myself i don’t need them, unless it is impossible for me to complete them like the mad king jumping puzzle or the wintersday one, i want to do it, even if i don’t like, because they’ll never be back. maybe, or maybe not.
i don’t like them because i cannot do it casually, if i could, than the story would be very different.

anyway it’s a problem i have and shouldn’t concern anybody else than me, but when i see people bashing on those who want to complete their achievement at all cost, the faster the better, well, they should be concerned of their own problems and not ours.
i have a problem with time gated content and is my own problem not yours.

the good thing is i never ask nobody to let me win, although i asked somebody if they needed to and i don’t feel guilty for letting them win.
i do the same in pvp jumping puzzle, if people don’t attack me, i don’t attack back (too pity we cannot talk to players from other servers). i don’t care it is pvp and i am supposed to kill them! i have plenty of places to kill people in this game already.

Paulytnz.7619:

JustTrogdor.7892:

This is what happens when you add a prize to the achievements. Because the prize is available people want it right away. They feel they can’t wait. I’ve seen it with achievement titles as well. Someone mails someone else a bunch of gold so they can get the “Golden” title. Look at the “Combat Healer” title. Do you think most people with that title went out of their was rez 1000 other players? It is more likely they farmed downed NPCs.

Now there are chests with shineys tied to it and people “have” to have it right now.

So you are saying that resing NPC’s shouldn’t count? What about the players who boosted this title by having their friends suicide over and over simply because it was a lot faster than finding Npc’s to res?

In my opinion NPCs should not count. It would give the achievement much more merit. Dead NPCs are all over the place and rezing 1000 of them while playing normally in my opinion is not a major achievement. If someone want’s to jump off a ledge 1000 times so their friend can get the title so be it. I don’t really see that happening that much though as it would be rather time consuming. It’s too late though as changing the achievement would not work now that it is already in place.

Siphaed.9235:

Why do players feel that they are entitled to achievements and the associated rewards?

Achievements used to be a fun sense of accomplishing content. Go do XXX content, get a “You completed XXX, congratulations!” and then go about doing whatever it was that you were doing. Slayer types are the most random of these as we adventures slash our way through the countryside killing everything in site.

However, lately achievements have become a hassle. It’s not that they’re more complicated and/or grind-tastic. That’s not the case. Instead achievements have turned the community upside down.

• “But I need the achievement for my next chest.”

• “I hate this content, but I need XXXX achievement.”

• “Bleh! They really shouldn’t make PvP achievements for a PvE game.”

This is the sour taste of people who apparently hate certain pieces of content, but put themselves through it just to get +5-10 achievement points. Ever heard the term “one rotten apple spoils the whole bunch”? Well, this kind of constant complaining in team/map chat while players are enjoying the game,…well that makes the game less enjoyable. It gets to the point where one wishes they could just do a /votekick and make the complainers leave the game by popular vote.

• “Can someone let me win for the achievement?”

• “Dude, stop griefing! I want the achievement too!”

• “Let’s just swap kills/wins for the achievements.”

Poor sportsmanship. Every mini-game that has come out since the beginning of the year has been plagued with self-centered attitudes. These mini-games are a type of Player-vs-Player (or ‘Team-vs-Team’) challenge. It seems that those achievement chasers try to avoid playing the content as designed, to the best of their abilities; instead opting to cheat their way to some more +achievement numbers.

Definition time:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/achievement

achieve·ment
noun \?-?ch?v-m?nt\
Definition of ACHIEVEMENT
1: the act of achieving : accomplishment
2a : a result gained by effort b : a great or heroic deed
3: the quality and quantity of a student’s work

That seems kind of contradictory of the attitudes within the game as of late. Doesn’t it? What’s one really accomplishing by begging for someone to allow them to kill them or give them first place? Is it really a heroic deed by cheating the system to cause only a single mob to spawn out of what’s designed to be ‘waves’ of them?

A player does not need every achievement in the game.
A person is not forced to do content they don’t want to do, save for by their own will.
Achievements are rewards for accomplishing content completion within the game.
Achievements are EARNED, not handed out.
Achievements are not a requirement, only a want by personal/self reasoning.

One could also argue that one major problem with the community people spend way to much time worrying about how others are playing the game, come to the forums and create a giant wall of text complaining about the complainers.

Kinda like the pot calling the kettle something or other. :-P

If people complain about the complainers they should have to admit that are part of the problem no?

I agree. They are more carrots in front of our faces now. They are dailys without the time restraint.

Why would you do something that you don’t like doing? The new achievement system gave me an incentive to do more stuff that I like for which I can get nice rewards. Do I play the content I don’t find interesting to get those achievements? Of course not.

You can get those points one way or another, but if you are forcing yourself to do something you don’t like then you are the only one to blame.

Solution:

Remove all forms of currency except: Copper/Silver/Gold, Karma, Gems, Dungeon Tokens.

Make every mini-game, every dungeon COMPLETION, every dynamic event, every renown heart, every jumping puzzle, every achievement, every guild mission, every daily, every monthly…make everything you do in the game that is worth rewarding, reward you with in game currency, Karma, and XP.

Make everything purchasable through these means. Make all ascended gear we have available now purchaseable through karma….even remove the ecto requirement for the accessory. Make the laurel rewards purchasable through karma. Make everything done through karma and gold.

This does two things that are healthy for the game:
1. It removes the 50 different currencies the game currently has and alleviates the pressure of keeping track of all currencies.
2. It makes ALL content worthwhile. Whether you are doing a simple jumping puzzle, killing harpies for a slayer achievement, a dungeon run, or dynamic event, completing a daily…all of these will reward roughly the same stuff. Karma. XP. Gold. You can then spend this Karma on the current laurel gear. Or on obsidian shards for your legendary. Or ascended gear. Or guild boosts.

You will no longer feel obligated to farm dragons, or complete the daily, or check off boxes for achievement points. This truely opens the game up for the player to really play how they want to because no matter what, they will get the same rewards for doing whatever they choose.

This needs to happen. The game will flourish if all content rewards are streamlined.

Coarr.3286:

Siphaed.9235:

…Go do XXX content, get a “You completed XXX, congratulations!” …

my girlfriend never says: congratulations when we complete xxx content

Maybe she feels you got rewarded more than she did. ^^

Khal Drogo.9631:

Serelisk.6573:

Lol, are you actually saying that the people who want to play the game the way it was designed to be played are griefers?

Anet devs should not feel entitled to plaudits when they produce POS mini games like Keg Brawl and played only by 1% the 1337 Pvpers and not expect their mini game to be achievement farmed. Thats right 1% of the 1337ists not the general population.

Anet should release the number of players of playing Keg Brawl during its peak time on their website to settle the matter objectively.

Next thing you know QQs about the Slayer achieves, followed by daily achieves, almost every achieve.

And you don’t think this has anything to do with the fact that it’s an unsupported game type? That it has zero social tools and is now plagued with problems that are objectively terrible for newer players (i.e Lobbing)? You cannot make an argument that Keg Brawl is a bad mini-game while comparing it to the rest of the game when there’s clear inconsistencies of content that Keg Brawl has/does not have with the rest of the game, outside of the game play itself.

And even if 1% of the player base actually truly enjoy it, does their small #‘s means you have every right to spoil their fun by breaking the game? There’s no way you’re going to justify any of that, lol.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

~snipped~

The “context” is clearly written out in the paragraphs above those sections you selected out of my entire post. It’s best to read the whole post instead of just taking cut from the bottom section and trying to post against it for that sake.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Absolutely agree with this. I often find myself not doing much of the Living Story because it isn’t the part of the game I enjoy. However, people who are semi-OCD or don’t want to miss out on certain achieves and rewards, for instance lets say, the gift of quartz, which may have much more significance in the future of the game than it does now, are being pressured by the fact that these things are available for 2-4 weeks and if you are a casual player, this is not always doable.

Because so many of the achievements are not requiring that you win the game but that you play as it is intended (crystal picking up in Sprint) and participate occasionally, Anet is addressing this. That being said, if a group of people in an arena are selfless enough to let others win so that they can get the achievement/title, kudos to them. That’s good karma, (real karma) and that’s a nice thing to do for someone who struggles with PvP like arenas, such as Mario Kar- Sanctum Sprint, and Aspect Arena. If you enter an arena and the people there are doing this, just leave and enter a new one. Not every single one is doing this, but let the people have their fun. If a group of 12 people are attempting to get everyone the achieves, those are 12 people who are working together and who approve of this method. Just because you do not does not mean everyone else is wrong.

What you’re asking others to do is inconvenience themselves by going through two additional loading screens just because other players are basically manipulating content. And yes, it is both manipulation and cheating. To that extent, there are rules related to it in the game’s Code of Conduct.

• While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people’s game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

• You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars 2 and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Guild Wars 2.

…and…

You acknowledge that You may not, without signed written consent from a legally authorized representative of NCSOFT, do any of the following:

• Use, or provide others with, any “hack,” “cheat,” “exploit” or “mod

See there? Those are clauses that you agreed to when deciding to play this game. Everyone agrees to them. Because of this, manipulating the mini-games (which are a form of PvP), is considered breech of User Agreement.

More over is the harassment that happens in chat by those trying to manipulate the game to get their achievement points. The constant complaints in chat; the begging to allow them to get whatever goal is needed; the name calling and hate speech to those who constantly come in 1st Place (in the race, in Southsun Survival, in Aspect Arena, and before in Dragon Ball).

• While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

So, before trying to applaud people for “approving this method”, realize that this method is against the design of the game and the rules outlining the play of the game. If they cannot earn an achievement normally without cheating the system (or other players), then said achievement is outside their grasp of reach. A bummer, sure, but they are in no way entitled for said achievement(s).

Siphaed.9235:

A bummer, sure, but they are in no way entitled for said achievement(s).

I never said people are entitled to these achievements. But honestly if you’re going to be kitten about a second loading screen to be able to play the way you want to, I don’t think there’s anything else anyone can say on the matter.

I played the ‘skillz’ games in GW1 (specifically Dwayna vs Grenth arena and especially the AT’s) and enjoyed the tactics and micro abilities those types of games brought. Keg Brawl in GW2 is very similar to those games and has a similar experience of using your skill and micro ability to win games and be competitive. However, achievement farming has run rampant in the game and it’s common to see full games of 9-10 players farming for achievements for hours on end. For people who come to actually play the game, this is very annoying, especially when you’re the bad guy for ‘stealing’ the kegs from the farmers at the beginning and actually attempting to score. I’ve seen people flat out afk hoping for wins, pressing a button every few minutes

If anet were to implement some form of structure (PvP game browser, custom arenas?) for the game where you could control which skills can or can’t be used (addresses lobbing) and can remove players at popular request or by command of the arena owner, players can play actual games while farmers can farm if that’s what they’d like to do. Yes, this will probably be shot down because Keg Brawl isn’t a very popular game, but the issues it does have often stops regular gameplay and sours the format in general

It’s plain and simple .. the real culprit is frustration. When people get frustrated they can choose different ways of dealing with it and one of those ways is complaining. The OP is frustrated with other players and is here venting his frustration. Other players are frustrated with certain aspects of the game and they vent their frustration.

Society has changed tremendously just in the last decade. I’m 65 years old and when I was growing up there were no fast food restaurants, we never had a phone until I was 10 years old, and no tv until I was 8. Sending a letter to Italy took 2 weeks and then 2 weeks for the reply to get back to us. Now instead we have instant everything. With iphones people can communicate instantly and be in touch with the rest of the world. If you are bored with a tv program you change the channel and there are many to choose from. We live in a world where people don’t have to wait for things and have not learned to deal with the frustration that comes with that.

I believe this is why Anet is going with living story content being released every 2 weeks now. People will get bored and “change the channel” or game in this case. It’s an unfortunate consequence of mass communication, technology, internet, transportation and the society we live in today.

Players are just a reflection of our society for good or for bad.

I agree. Players really do act like the game is a job and don’t enjoy playing it like they should. The latest patch, the Zephyr airship or something like that, made me realize how many players actually just play for the achievement points, and not the actual content. I’m guilty of doing this myself every once in awhile, but I usually try to enjoy the content I’m doing.

I came to this realization when I got yelled at about 30 times in the Sanctum Sprint. Let me start with this: I am very good when it comes to fast reaction time/jumping/landing and stuff like that, so I came in first about 90% of the time. On my first race, I even got the wind catcher skin and linked it in chat. You wouldn’t believe how angry people got. It’s like they all turned super saiyan and threw a plasma ball at their computers, because they all logged off at the same time when I linked that.

But I digress. As I ran more and more of the Sanctum Sprints, I began to see people saying, “Let’s take turns winning so we can all get the achievement”. I said “Play the game the way it’s supposed to be played”, and I got multiple insults back. So? I said screw you and rushed as fast as I possibly could to get in first every time.

If everyone in the game got the achievement, then it wouldn’t really be considered an “achievement”, would it?

Choosing an “answer” to agree with your opinion, biased much?

Many of you go on about how it is just a game without realizing it is just a game. That is why the achievement system is what’s wrong. You think human nature is what needs to be changed when it never will, because its human nature.

Your achievements are not your achievements, they are a number that people equate to experience. These problems didn’t exist when there was no achievement system. People did what was fun and that was that.

Achievements bring people into content they don’t consider fun because they reward players in ways not relating to that content. That’s the problem.

My main problem with achievements is living story went from cool plotlines to follow and have fun with every 2 weeks to a checklist that needs to be finished because its the best way to get your AP/exclusive rewards. I absolutely hate aspect arena, yet I’ve played about 70 games trying to get the crystal breaker achievement only to have people jump off cliffs before they die so I fail to get credit. Its not fun for me at all and its absolute bs that I can get someone down to 5 hp then not get credit, or position myself to knock them off a cliff and not get credit. Its stuff like this that makes it unfun and makes people complain about having to run through 25 5-minute games,

As others have mentioned, I don’t think there is any problem with rewarding achievements. In fact, since achievements are closely tied to playing the game it’s a perfect way to add relevant reward to the game.

The only possible problem with this is when significant achievement points are tied to temporary, time-limited content. Some players may sense a time to completion difficulty because of life-limited availability of play time. And, because of its sometime niche nature (platformers anyone?), some players may not want to play it, but feel forced by the level of reward. This is fairly easy to understand. If the achievement points were tied to permanent, MMO-like content, for the most part, I don’t think you could find a problem with the system.

Dog.1472:

Choosing an “answer” to agree with your opinion, biased much?

Many of you go on about how it is just a game without realizing it is just a game. That is why the achievement system is what’s wrong. You think human nature is what needs to be changed when it never will, because its human nature.

Your achievements are not your achievements, they are a number that people equate to experience. These problems didn’t exist when there was no achievement system. People did what was fun and that was that.

Achievements bring people into content they don’t consider fun because they reward players in ways not relating to that content. That’s the problem.

The ‘achievement system’ has been in the game since the beginning. People were doing them anyway. Using them as guides to help them find little things, using them as goals both long and short term, etc. People did the ones they wanted to do and were happy. They only difference now is that we get nice tidbits for the work we put in. There is no reason to change how you treat that list of achievements unless you are playing only for the shinies. Sure, if you are playing a reward centric game, you’re going to suddenly grind those APs and that is the issue. Greed.