Guild Wars 2

With the upcoming reveal of leaderboards I thought I should highlight a problem with the current system.

As it stands the achievement points from daily/monthlies account for about 50% of all available achievement points. This will mean that the majority of points are time gated and unable to be achieved if not already obtained.

Is this okay with everybody? Should leaderboards simply be tracking who has been logging in every day, with anyone not playing on day one, or who took a few days holiday out of luck?

Solution: ANet should unlock previous daily and monthly achievements once all current day achievements have been completed. Meaning that a new account would be able (through a lot of gameplay) to eventually catch up to legacy accounts.

I completely agree. The thing is though, forcing as many people to log in daily is the most profitable route they can take. Yeah it cheapens achievements for the players, but do you really think that’s their main concern with APs?

Are you joking? For example if someone has played soccer for 20 years, u should be equally skilled as him if u started today?

So, how does having a high score on the leaderboard make you better/cooler/whatever?
I might have agreed if this score actually gave you an advantage in-game, that is however not the case, and the only thing it actually does is stroking the e-kitten of people.

Let them have that I say. It won’t effect you or anyone else.

Covis.6037:

Are you joking? For example if someone has played soccer for 20 years, u should be equally skilled as him if u started today?

Should the rankings of a player be determined by the number of games they’ve played? So that a striker that has never scored a goal and has played 100 games would be 100 times better than a striker that has scored 100 times in the 10 games he has played in?

Because that is exactly how it is going to work currently.

Or another way: For each day a person missed of playing the game they would need to kill 40 thousand people in WvW to make up an equivelent amount. Do you think playing for a single day makes you better than someone who has killed 40 thousand people in WvW?

How one does make AP points in to “skill points” ? Does doing your dailies make u play better?

E: And for the post above, i never intended that post to be like that.
E: edit for your edit.. Now u are trying to fight against me with same opinion as i have?

lordkrall.7241:

So, how does having a high score on the leaderboard make you better/cooler/whatever?
I might have agreed if this score actually gave you an advantage in-game, that is however not the case, and the only thing it actually does is stroking the e-kitten of people.

Let them have that I say. It won’t effect you or anyone else.

What’s the point of having a leaderboard if it’s meaningless? And if you think it is meaningless regardless of what they do to it- why are you here? Technically you don’t have an opinion, so why fill the air with your nonsense?

Covis.6037:

How one does make AP points in to “skill points” ? Does doing your dailies make u play better?

E: And for the post above, i never intended that post to be like that.
E: edit for your edit.. Now u are trying to fight against me with same opinion as i have?

I have no idea how to even begin to understand what you just typed.

Risingashes.8694:

What’s the point of having a leaderboard if it’s meaningless? And if you think it is meaningless regardless of what they do to it- why are you here? Technically you don’t have an opinion, so why fill the air with your nonsense?

I did not say it was meaningless. I said it don’t effect the game though. And it doesn’t. The only thing it does is helping those kind of people that like stroking their e-kittenes stroking them. Most of us will most likely not even care about the leaderboard, but some probably will, and I am happy for them.
If they feel the need to be on the top in a game then good for them. I never understood that myself though.

I think the point Rising is trying to make here is that if leaderboards add nothing to the game, why take the time to add them to the game?

Umm.. DUH achievement leaderboards is going to be a joke. That’s the entire point. It’s all about kitten stroking for noobs obsessed with achievement points because they know they can’t possibly hope for most kills in WvW or highest WXP rank. To share you a secret, the leaderboards for the latter two are also wery funny jokes. What real players want out of the leaderboards is along the lines of guild or commander rankings; stuff that actually has tangible meaning other than “I played more than you”. If it’s made correctly, we’ll FINALLY have data that shows which guilds do the most for their server or which commander is most effective – with detailed breakdown of points/kills/caps/whatever so you can define what “most” or “effective” means to you.

lordkrall.7241:

Risingashes.8694:

What’s the point of having a leaderboard if it’s meaningless? And if you think it is meaningless regardless of what they do to it- why are you here? Technically you don’t have an opinion, so why fill the air with your nonsense?

I did not say it was meaningless. I said it don’t effect the game though. And it doesn’t. The only thing it does is helping those kind of people that like stroking their e-kittenes stroking them. Most of us will most likely not even care about the leaderboard, but some probably will, and I am happy for them.
If they feel the need to be on the top in a game then good for them. I never understood that myself though.

Some people like for achievements to prove that you’ve achieved something.

Geikamir.6329:

Some people like for achievements to prove that you’ve achieved something.

Which is more or less the definition of e-kitten stroking.

lordkrall.7241:

Geikamir.6329:

Some people like for achievements to prove that you’ve achieved something.

Which is more or less the definition of e-kitten stroking.

I’m not entirely sure that people that want to compare their progress with others that play the same game are more sad than people who are jealous of the things that others have done in a game.

Since, for some reason, that is the conversation we seem to be having I thought we should spell it out so everyone knows what is happening.

lordkrall.7241:

Geikamir.6329:

Some people like for achievements to prove that you’ve achieved something.

Which is more or less the definition of e-kitten stroking.

Do I insult you for how you choose to play the game?

Geikamir.6329:

Do I insult you for how you choose to play the game?

Do I?

Someone had over 20k achievement points because of salvaging. They mean little to nothing.

lordkrall.7241:

Geikamir.6329:

Do I insult you for how you choose to play the game?

Do I?

Yes.

AP who the kitten cares about those stuffs in MMO

The leaderboards were originally designed to add competition to PvP, so they didn’t waste anything by making them.

For PvE, an achievement based leaderboard was simply the easiest to throw in since the counter was already there. Eventually, there’ll probably be more, like how they had challenge mission leaderboards in GW1.

For actually ranking achievements though, the system doesn’t make sense. For example, why is 5 dailies worth more than the hardest achievements in the game? Because of that, the #1 person won’t be who has all the achievements but who has 100%‘d (not just the minimum) all the dailies and monthlies because eventually, that’ll be all that matters. Without them however, eventually it’ll come to a point where hundreds of people are tied for #1, and it’ll never change.

Sil.4560:

Someone had over 20k achievement points because of salvaging. They mean little to nothing.

That was me. They’ve been removed in preparation for the leaderboards, yet dailies remain.

PVE leaderboards have never worked in MMO’s. Some people will love them, fair play to them. I’ll look at them for a laugh, but they’ll have no bearing on the game so I’ll just ignore them.

I might care for leaderboards if it only counted 1-time only achievements, or have looping achievements cap at a certain number. With dailies and monthlies counting towards score it’s going to be a joke.

This is pointless i people gonna be all like “look at me i killed 50 spiders I’m so pro!” the achievement system is a joke.

If they remove monthlies/dailies we will have people with the exact same amount of points. Also, dailies and now monthlies have a variety of activities to choose from in order to fullfill them, the only “benefit” for doing more is 1 achievement point and a little 5% xp bonus. Offering that point for those who get into the trouble of doing more than the 5 dailies is something of a reward, since there is no other benefit.

Unless they add a lot more and varied achievements that award points, the top players on the leaderboard will have the exact same points, so dailies/monthlies should be in. But, they already stated that leaderboards are now actually active, just not viewable by the public, they are watching the list and how much of a difference exists in it, between players and once they are happy, I guess when there is enough “variety” in numbers and not everyone with the same amount of points, they will make it public.

What I’m more worried about is the fact that dailies/monthlies used to reward different amounts of points since their introduction. For a time, dailies used to reward 25 points each, which means those who were doing dailies back then have a huge advantage because dailies now reward 5-tops 9 points, that’s a rather significant difference in points.

If they really want to keep dailies in, they should “normalize” the points someone got in the past by doing them.

By far the most uninspired Achievement system I have seen… Nothing creative from Anet just a database of how many kills from each mob… Also the only MMO that i don’t care about achievements… Let them have the “leader board”… I agree with you though OP

Perhaps we should gain a couple of achievement points each time we level up after level 80?

Just a thought. I don’t think that the issue is that we get achievement points from dailies and monthlies. I think we just don’t get them from enough different areas.

Soooo, they took away your salvage “effort” points, and now leaderboards are here and you wont be on top! Sounds like right time to call out their design decisions…

MY GOSH they decided to give advantage to consistency over fanaticism, the nerve!

While it’s sort of silly…it pretty much is legitimate that if you want the achievement system to be an indicator of how much of things in the game you’ve done..you can’t have one category able to provide infinite points.

They seem to have realized this with the salvaging, but have done nothing to address dailies and monthlies….which is kind of strange? They could cap them at a relatively high point like they did with salvaging (like 1000 dailies and 100 monthlies) and things would be consistent and harm nobody…seems like a no-brainer.

They can’t cap daily and monthly achievement points because if they did that it wouldn’t be a leaderboard. It would be a, “hey look the top 2000 players all have the exact same number of points, its a 2000 way tie!” board.

People who play more get more achievement points, I don’t see how that’s a problem. It’s like saying, oh sorry you got your 500th home run, that’s the cap, we aren’t going to count any more of those for you because we need to give other people the chance to catch up.

or “oh sorry you just got 1000 rushing yards, that’s it you’ve hit the cap, we want to make sure other newer players can catch up so the rest of them don’t count”

lol the absurdity of what you’re asking amazes me.

People who invested more time are naturally rewarded with more points? I don’t get your point. Do you want a just fresh started player being able to beat a long time veteran player who has been playing since release? There are many achievements out there which gives points much more than daily which is a maximum of 10 points per day (rarely anyone does all 10 I believe)

Lafiel.9372:

People who invested more time are naturally rewarded with more points? I don’t get your point. Do you want a just fresh started player being able to beat a long time veteran player who has been playing since release? There are many achievements out there which gives points much more than daily which is a maximum of 10 points per day (rarely anyone does all 10 I believe)

Yeah….i dont think that argument works. Example:
Player a has been playing since launch, has only done 10 achievements.

Player b has played for just a month, has done 20 achievements.

Thus, player b appears higher on the board. Daily and monthly points remain so there is movement in the lineup, thats all.

Risingashes.8694:

Sil.4560:

Someone had over 20k achievement points because of salvaging. They mean little to nothing.

That was me. They’ve been removed in preparation for the leaderboards, yet dailies remain.

Oh, I didn’t know they did that already. What’s the new cap for the Entropy achievement?

Sil.4560:

Risingashes.8694:

Sil.4560:

Someone had over 20k achievement points because of salvaging. They mean little to nothing.

That was me. They’ve been removed in preparation for the leaderboards, yet dailies remain.

Oh, I didn’t know they did that already. What’s the new cap for the Entropy achievement?

It’s 250 for both Entropy and Dungeon Explorer. However, the dungeon one is bugged and won’t let some people get credit. Mine has been stuck at 30 points for months.

incoming LFG, must be in the the top 500 we will check!

And the QQ that comes with it, however that doesn’t really matter when you can just make your own group or join a different one

People already ask for 3k+ AP for some dungeons.
And i like those requests, because when i pug i want a exp team not a team full of noobs.

AP are importante when you pug, when i see people with 5k AP in my group i know nothing will be wrong.
But yeah the leaderboards are going to be useless, but who cares anyway? i dont.

ExZee.8109:

Umm.. DUH achievement leaderboards is going to be a joke. That’s the entire point. It’s all about kitten stroking for noobs obsessed with achievement points because they know they can’t possibly hope for most kills in WvW or highest WXP rank. To share you a secret, the leaderboards for the latter two are also wery funny jokes. What real players want out of the leaderboards is along the lines of guild or commander rankings; stuff that actually has tangible meaning other than “I played more than you”. If it’s made correctly, we’ll FINALLY have data that shows which guilds do the most for their server or which commander is most effective – with detailed breakdown of points/kills/caps/whatever so you can define what “most” or “effective” means to you.

TBH a ranking system is where Commanders should come from not “go to NPC and buy blue tag”.

That way leaderboards themselves begin to be seen as the real achievement system for players and guilds… as it is and likely will be, is nothing more than “I played more than you”
Leaderboards could hold the key to specific unlocks in each core element of the game PVP, WvW, PvE but I guess they prefer it to be a stroking compliment to the kiddies brigade.

There are plenty of achievements that aren’t about just killing 1000 spiders, or getting 1000 kills with the bow. Some of them involved finding certain things, completely jumping puzzles, completeing every path of every dungeon, both story and explorable mode.

Like the rest of the game, there are achievements for people who are more casual and achievements for people who aren’t.

No game is going to make only achievements that are hard to get, because it would lock out too many people from ever getting one.

The trick is to find the balance, and make sure there are harder or more interesting achievements in the mix.

To me it’s not a big deal either way. I enjoy getting achievements, particularly the challenging ones, but I’m taking my time. For example I still need 4 paths of two dungeons to get my Dungeon Master achievement.

Vayne, the problem is the amount the points different tasks reward. Like it takes years to get 20 points in a WvW track and Legendaries grant 5 each, but old dailies would give 25. Every day.

What if they reset the boards every so often (once a month?), that way monthly and daily points don’t matter whether you are newer or a vet.

Also, it would be cool if they had a score and totaled points based on how active you are in events, so that players that run in attack 1 or twice for credit and run off wouldn’t be ranked very well; meanwhile, players that were actively attacking and reviving other players would score more points. The event rankings would be based on several different factors combined for your overall score: damage dealt, players revived, support provided (buffs), mob control, etc. Each overall/sum event rank would be saved into a players achievements where it would be totaled at the end of each week to update monthly rankings….

….or something =/

Otherwise, yes it will be a joke if it’s just based on the current achievement system.

Ze Dos Cavalos.6132:

People already ask for 3k+ AP for some dungeons.
And i like those requests, because when i pug i want a exp team not a team full of noobs.

AP are importante when you pug, when i see people with 5k AP in my group i know nothing will be wrong.
But yeah the leaderboards are going to be useless, but who cares anyway? i dont.

Lol, yes. Because someone who salvaged 999999999999999999 items is definitely an elite player. …. AP is meaningless, I probably have 3k doing nothing but leveling in game and wandering around randomly. And admittedly I am terrible at dungeons and never do them. I know people with 10k who also have been to <10 dungeons or <10 spvp matches or never go to wvw. Hell I’m even a commander. because I lead people in WvW? Nope, cause I wanted to have the title just because. Status means nothing in this game. Actions speak louder than words, or AP for that matter.

Geotherma.2395:

Ze Dos Cavalos.6132:

People already ask for 3k+ AP for some dungeons.
And i like those requests, because when i pug i want a exp team not a team full of noobs.

AP are importante when you pug, when i see people with 5k AP in my group i know nothing will be wrong.
But yeah the leaderboards are going to be useless, but who cares anyway? i dont.

Lol, yes. Because someone who salvaged 999999999999999999 items is definitely an elite player. …. AP is meaningless, I probably have 3k doing nothing but leveling in game and wandering around randomly. And admittedly I am terrible at dungeons and never do them. I know people with 10k who also have been to <10 dungeons or <10 spvp matches or never go to wvw. Hell I’m even a commander. because I lead people in WvW? Nope, cause I wanted to have the title just because. Status means nothing in this game. Actions speak louder than words, or AP for that matter.

I think they removed salvages ap.

Geikamir.6329:

Vayne, the problem is the amount the points different tasks reward. Like it takes years to get 20 points in a WvW track and Legendaries grant 5 each, but old dailies would give 25. Every day.

I’m not disagreeing with this. I’d like to see dailies removed from the totals altogether, myself. I was responding to people who said all the achievements were just killing 1000 mosquitos and meant nothing. Some of them are quite challenging.

Sorry to derail the conversation.

I am totally okay with it. People should be rewarded for playing since release actively. “Casuals” shouldn’t be able to score high in leaderboards.

Vayne.8563:

Geikamir.6329:

Vayne, the problem is the amount the points different tasks reward. Like it takes years to get 20 points in a WvW track and Legendaries grant 5 each, but old dailies would give 25. Every day.

I’m not disagreeing with this. I’d like to see dailies removed from the totals altogether, myself. I was responding to people who said all the achievements were just killing 1000 mosquitos and meant nothing. Some of them are quite challenging.

Sorry to derail the conversation.

Ah ok, I see. Sorry, I misunderstood you.

Risingashes.8694:

Covis.6037:

Are you joking? For example if someone has played soccer for 20 years, u should be equally skilled as him if u started today?

Should the rankings of a player be determined by the number of games they’ve played? So that a striker that has never scored a goal and has played 100 games would be 100 times better than a striker that has scored 100 times in the 10 games he has played in?

Because that is exactly how it is going to work currently.

Or another way: For each day a person missed of playing the game they would need to kill 40 thousand people in WvW to make up an equivelent amount. Do you think playing for a single day makes you better than someone who has killed 40 thousand people in WvW?

You’re wrong. It’s not just “time based”, it’s actually achievement based. To obtain the dailies or monthly achievements, a player actually has to actively the play the game and do a certain achievable objective. Sure, those that have playing longer have had a greater chance to complete these, but doesn’t mean they actually do. In the past week alone, I’ve missed two dailies…nothing to cry over because I’m down a few Achievement Points.

Siphaed.9235:

You’re wrong. It’s not just “time based”, it’s actually achievement based. To obtain the dailies or monthly achievements, a player actually has to actively the play the game and do a certain achievable objective. Sure, those that have playing longer have had a greater chance to complete these, but doesn’t mean they actually do. In the past week alone, I’ve missed two dailies…nothing to cry over because I’m down a few Achievement Points.

I’m not wrong at all. It is ‘time based’.

A person starting playing today has a 0% chance of ever reaching someone who started at launch and plays for 1 hour each day.

Regardless of how much the newer player does in game, regardless of if they do the hardest content repeatedly, regardless of if they are the most active WvWer, regardless of any of their actions they will never even come close to the person who started at launch.

If previous dailies could be unlocked once the current daily is completed this wouldn’t be an issue, but they aren’t.

If you want to play casually, you shouldn’t be concerned with leaderboards. If this statement is false, let me know and convince me otherwise.

ScottBroChill.3254:

If you want to play casually, you shouldn’t be concerned with leaderboards. If this statement is false, let me know and convince me otherwise.

Leaderboards were not hinted about at launch.

Those that didn’t do dailies AND pvp dailies for the rewards presented will now never be able to compete against those that did.

People joining the game at any date past the launch date will never be able to compete against those that did.

This has nothing to do with casual vs hardcore.

Risingashes.8694:

ScottBroChill.3254:

If you want to play casually, you shouldn’t be concerned with leaderboards. If this statement is false, let me know and convince me otherwise.

Leaderboards were not hinted about at launch.

Those that didn’t do dailies AND pvp dailies for the rewards presented will now never be able to compete against those that did.

People joining the game at any date past the launch date will never be able to compete against those that did.

This has nothing to do with casual vs hardcore.

You have convince me good sir. Yeah, there should be something done about that I suppose.