Guild Wars 2

Icecat.4528:

Spin: FotM is wildly successful – look at all the players doing it!
Fact: Its the only way to get the new flavor-of-the-month gear so – yeah, ppl are doing it for fear they will be undergeared for the next content release and/or the next gear set (if we see one) on the treadmill.

Spin: FotM is equally open to all.
Fact: We are rapidly seeing an aging effect here in that a lot of the population has progressed well up the FotM chain. Those who still need to start at level 1 or 2, for example, have a much harder time finding a group. This is totally unlike the prior dungeons and is fracturing the player base. The only way to grow out of this is if more players reach the necessary level or alts are run through FotM to create a new wave for level 1.

Spin: The new content release was a success etc.
Fact: FotM has made all other dungeons irrelevant aside from achievement oriented players. Its much harder to find groups at all interested in running this content now as the token grind for exotics is worth less than the token grind for ascended, so if you are going to invest your time – ppl are opting to queue for FotM and the other instances are ghost towns.

Atop all this – a majority of the zones in-game are devoid of players. Its taking much much longer to down the 3 dragons, and many DEs are totally ignored at this point. The loot drops are not good enough to incent players to play these aside from those who simply love DEs and play them for grins and the small payout. None of the items you get are worth having when the goal is a legendary and/or ascended items.

IMHO – the game has taken a turn down a treadmill road that is driving people away. With Rift Storm Legion the flavor-of-the-month ( and Darkfall, among others, around the corner) I fear we are in a mode similar to that seen in The Secret World – a small loyal fan base who will play forever while the game struggles to attract new people and to keep others who don’t want the treadmill.

So wait is spin any thing you do not agree with? That a very bad way to look at life if you do it that way too much you will become comply alienated from most of the pop. see president election.
It cant be a gear thing treadmill as you put it if there only going to be 2 set put out over all and one of the set all but the weapon is out and the other set only rings and back that we know of is out.

Natural.7013:

Minos.5168:

plasmacutter.2709:

Natural.7013:

How is it a boatload? Because you don’t like it, so it’s crap. Vocal minority again.

You don’t even read the rest of my post. BTW, accusing the majority on this board of being a “vocal minority” sounds like the Romney camp before the election. We all know how well that went.

47% of people will never agree with anything ArenaNet does.

Good point.
/thread

I hope you realize that not only are you agreeing to a joke post regarding the recent election.

But let me give you the benefit of the doubt and you don’t follow US elections.
Its actually worse, since you actually believed that if the post wasn’t a joke, you’re agreeing to a completely made up percentage with no basis.

Yes, I realize it was Romney stylized sarcasm, so was the reply.

Back on point. No one here has any idea what the data mining reveals about player habits. Everyone views the dungeon and the gear through their own prism. Metrics regardless of what anyone thinks is a form of research and always considered along with qualitative feedback when it comes to decisions by many MMO companies.

If they keep going this route, I would love to know if it’s data driven and what the metrics show.

I personally like the way fractals were designed from a gameplay standpoint and enjoy doing them. However I still don’t like the addition of Ascended gear and hate that they have made fractals the only way to get them. It should have been available from all forms of play (world drop, crafting, WvW, dungeons, and fractals) from the start. They also should be tradeable.

Striker.9413:

I personally like the way fractals were designed from a gameplay standpoint and enjoy doing them. However I still don’t like the addition of Ascended gear and hate that they have made fractals the only way to get them. It should have been available from all forms of play (world drop, crafting, WvW, dungeons, and fractals) from the start. They also should be tradeable.

I respect this viewpoint. However, what should be the “new mmo’s” goal for keeping people engaged? Do “skins” really keep people playing?

Imho, the LoL model applied to a dynamic MMO would be great. However, what is truly competitive in this game right now? The closest thing to it was WvW, but that has a high burnout factor. Spvp is anything but competitive and nail biting for the most part and there are no real ladders to view via a Gui as with other games. Nothing, and I mean nothing in this game is truly a challenge imo. The new dungeons are a start imo.

Natural.7013:

Whiteside said they adding more fotm style dungeons. Something is showing them that they are successful?

This.

FOTM system is great, rewarding, fun and gives dungeon a longevity they don’t have in any other game.
If they’re adding more content following this mechanic it means a large majority of players loved this absolutely.
Sure, 100 people in a forum can be more noisy than 1 million in the game, but I’m sure Anet has their ways of knowing the satisfaction of their playerbase.

I don’t care what the doomsayers say, they are wrong.
The game isn’t dead, isn’t dying, isn’t killed or being killed or nothing. Nothing of all this.
Servers are full and many, GW2 is a success, but it will never be every single gamer’s cup of tea.
The law of evolution says evolve or die, so I say adapt to GW2 and it’s path or quit; there isn’t much chance of Anet accepting the complaints of a 1% while the 99% is happy.

Red Falcon.8257:

Natural.7013:

Whiteside said they adding more fotm style dungeons. Something is showing them that they are successful?

This.

FOTM system is great, rewarding, fun and gives dungeon a longevity they don’t have in any other game.
If they’re adding more content following this mechanic it means a large majority of players loved this absolutely.
Sure, 100 people in a forum can be more noisy than 1 million in the game, but I’m sure Anet has their ways of knowing the satisfaction of their playerbase.

I don’t care what the doomsayers say, they are wrong.
The game isn’t dead, isn’t dying, isn’t killed or being killed or nothing. Nothing of all this.
Servers are full and many, GW2 is a success, but it will never be every single gamer’s cup of tea.
The law of evolution says evolve or die, so I say adapt to GW2 and it’s path or quit; there isn’t much chance of Anet accepting the complaints of a 1% while the 99% is happy.

You, sir, win the post of the day award.

Jski.6180:

Icecat.4528:

Spin: FotM is wildly successful – look at all the players doing it!
Fact: Its the only way to get the new flavor-of-the-month gear so – yeah, ppl are doing it for fear they will be undergeared for the next content release and/or the next gear set (if we see one) on the treadmill.

Spin: FotM is equally open to all.
Fact: We are rapidly seeing an aging effect here in that a lot of the population has progressed well up the FotM chain. Those who still need to start at level 1 or 2, for example, have a much harder time finding a group. This is totally unlike the prior dungeons and is fracturing the player base. The only way to grow out of this is if more players reach the necessary level or alts are run through FotM to create a new wave for level 1.

Spin: The new content release was a success etc.
Fact: FotM has made all other dungeons irrelevant aside from achievement oriented players. Its much harder to find groups at all interested in running this content now as the token grind for exotics is worth less than the token grind for ascended, so if you are going to invest your time – ppl are opting to queue for FotM and the other instances are ghost towns.

Atop all this – a majority of the zones in-game are devoid of players. Its taking much much longer to down the 3 dragons, and many DEs are totally ignored at this point. The loot drops are not good enough to incent players to play these aside from those who simply love DEs and play them for grins and the small payout. None of the items you get are worth having when the goal is a legendary and/or ascended items.

IMHO – the game has taken a turn down a treadmill road that is driving people away. With Rift Storm Legion the flavor-of-the-month ( and Darkfall, among others, around the corner) I fear we are in a mode similar to that seen in The Secret World – a small loyal fan base who will play forever while the game struggles to attract new people and to keep others who don’t want the treadmill.

So wait is spin any thing you do not agree with? That a very bad way to look at life if you do it that way too much you will become comply alienated from most of the pop. see president election.
It cant be a gear thing treadmill as you put it if there only going to be 2 set put out over all and one of the set all but the weapon is out and the other set only rings and back that we know of is out.

“Spin” is what group A says about a given subject. This may include Anet and the official message regarding Lost Shores and FotM. Think of it like this – a GM car ad for a car that has a horrible track record in Consumer Reports but the GM ad says “Look – shiny”. Also similar to the last election where 50% of the people stupidly voted Obama based on bogus promises and despite his record.

How can you possibly know what the future holds in terms of gear and vertical progression? You suggest that we have seen the end of it – in my opinion thats a bit naive. There was never supposed to be this vertical progression in the first place, but now that its here what makes you think we won’t see more of the same?

I still play the game. I have no interest in ascended gear nor am I actively trying to get any. I do play FotM for pleasure and dungeon design – but thats the extent of it. Do not assume my initial posting means “That a very bad way to look at life if you do it that way too much you will become comply alienated from most of the pop” – simply calling it like I see it. If the game prospers and lots of new people come in and the current base stays – then they made the right call. If not – well, then perhaps it was the wrong call. Based on what I see in game we have a dropping player base so something is off.

the issue with measuring metrics is that you can only measure the level of interaction with game systems which are there, not game systems the players would rather interact with, or spend money on. You end up reinforcing the audience where the most monetization happens, instead of trying to grow your audience and bridge into new audiences.

Zynga tried to approach game design purely from a mathematical angle and they were dubbed “career accountants trying game design”. That certainly did not help them break into the market the GW2 community is a part of.

beyond the silly arguments of vertical vs horizontal progression (the game needs well measured amounts of both, instead of extremes), GW2 has driven itself into a corner where it contains way too much depletable content and not enough systems creating emergent scenarios and memorable moments.

But it is impossible for a fan to try and communicate the sheer insanity of sacrificing all interesting gameplay decisions for the sake of chasing a teenage power fantasy narrative of killing giant dragons. For a minute, try to think of the Walking Dead videogame and all its decisions, their emotional impact and gravity on the world. Then imagine what TellTaleGames would do, if they were forced to make it an MMO and have the sort of infrastructure to basically run a server process for each potential outcome and group players based on that. Then you have the direction GW2 needs to grow in. Not more content, not more dungeons, not more textures, not more vertical grind, but instead the thing we were most excited about: “more impact”.

Red Falcon.8257:

Natural.7013:

Whiteside said they adding more fotm style dungeons. Something is showing them that they are successful?

This.

FOTM system is great, rewarding, fun and gives dungeon a longevity they don’t have in any other game.
If they’re adding more content following this mechanic it means a large majority of players loved this absolutely.
Sure, 100 people in a forum can be more noisy than 1 million in the game, but I’m sure Anet has their ways of knowing the satisfaction of their playerbase.

I don’t care what the doomsayers say, they are wrong.
The game isn’t dead, isn’t dying, isn’t killed or being killed or nothing. Nothing of all this.
Servers are full and many, GW2 is a success, but it will never be every single gamer’s cup of tea.
The law of evolution says evolve or die, so I say adapt to GW2 and it’s path or quit; there isn’t much chance of Anet accepting the complaints of a 1% while the 99% is happy.

Couple weeks ago the majority of servers were Full. Today there are only 5 listed as Full. I see no evidence of load balancing across all servers (not seeing a massive influx of new people on Denravi) so I suspect load balancing does not account for this – more likely players have departed, freeing up space in the servers that had been shown as Full.

GW2 is fun and I am still playing it, but I doubt your optimistic appraisal of the game’s condition at present. I do believe players have left after seeing what Lost Shores did (or did not) offer. Time will tell what happens next. With new games coming out quarterly – will this game attract new blood and be able to keep current player base?

I don’t care if I’m the only person in the whole game who hates dungeon grinds, it doesn’t mean a thing to me. What matters is how I feel about it. I despise these changes and not only has it made me determined to spend no more money on this game, it makes me determined to spend no more on any MMOs. They all turn out like this in the end. It’s all about gear cliques.

You have that option then. It’s F2p maybe peek in down the road and see if you like it then.

Also, Anet did a quality feedback questionnaire, then Whiteside came out with his blog post not long afterwards. Does that mean even the feedback wasn’t as kittenome made it sound like on these forums? Or was this 100% damage control and spin post?

Questionnaires are like statistics, you only get out of them what you put in them. Let me put out a questionnaire. I bet you the results would tell and entirely different story.

Curlybaby.6258:

Questionnaires are like statistics, you only get out of them what you put in them. Let me put out a questionnaire. I bet you the results would tell and entirely different story.

Yes, if your sample size came from forum posters on 3 websites.

I filled out the write-in ‘other’ options on the survey monkey questionnaire, was that the one you guys are referencing? I made it very clear how I felt. Of course, that doesn’t mean they’ll tell everyone how many of us did that and what we wrote, either, does it?

The only semi-accurate statistics in existence are censes, which are mandatory. Unless you can get a mandatory questionnaire to the entire population of Guild Wars 2, none of the statistics you present will ever be able to be construed as representing the population or even a microcosm of the population.

Vermillion Hawk.9037:

The only semi-accurate statistics in existence are censes, which are mandatory. Unless you can get a mandatory questionnaire to the entire population of Guild Wars 2, none of the statistics you present will ever be able to be construed as representing the population or even a microcosm of the population.

Especially if your questionnaire is missing some key questions, suggesting you’d rather not know the answer to them.

Astralporing.1957:

Vermillion Hawk.9037:

The only semi-accurate statistics in existence are censes, which are mandatory. Unless you can get a mandatory questionnaire to the entire population of Guild Wars 2, none of the statistics you present will ever be able to be construed as representing the population or even a microcosm of the population.

Especially if your questionnaire is missing some key questions, suggesting you’d rather not know the answer to them.

It works in ways other than in the one you’re obviously insinuating.

Actions speak louder…

You mean like their new sale where only the new players they’re obviously trying to attract with the new content design will get the digital deluxe version of the game for the same price as the regular while their current players/supporters get nada?

Yes, most call that marketing and seeking to gain a profit for your company. Everyone wants everything for free. I get it. Free to play is a misnomer. Should everyone that bought Swtor get their sub fees back since launch because it’s f2p now? (kinda).

First off, I agree with the OP.

I cannot log on to most cities without being in overflow which was not the case 2 weeks ago.

All I see in LA is LFG Fotm 1-19, or lfg (name dungeon) people are playing way more than they did 2 weeks ago.

If you would stop whining for 2 sec. NO ONE has yet to prove how any of this will hurt the game. All you use is anecdotal evidence to prove your paranoia. No one knows the future. If two items that can only be gotten by months of playing the same dungeon is creating a gear treadmill, the treadmill must be set to UBER SLOW.

Also, it is not a grind. I LOVE the new dungeons. TA and AC are horrible dungeons, just awful. Fotm is so much fun. I am above level 5 but I will run 1-5 at any time. Why? Because they are amazing. Oh, and I see people all the time, my guild included, doing the same thing.

I have a reason to keep playing. I now see a future for this game. Before it was boring dungeon grinds to get pretty gear then do nothing. Sure I could make up content like see how fast I can run around LA but I didn’t pay 60 bucks to come up with my own games. What I mean by this is not that I can grind for gear, but that if the Fotm dungeons are the future, I WANT TO KEEP PLAYING. I don’t care about your stupid kittening gear, I just want to have fun.

NOTHING from these new pieces of “grinded treadmill” gear will make 1 bit of difference in WvW. Especially since all you conveniently miss the part where the gear will be made available OUTSIDE THE DUNGEON.

So freaking seriously, kitten and enjoy the game. Just because Anet isnt catering tot he GW1 crowd, doesn’t mean you get to clog the forums with your whining.

Anet won’t be able to see your tears because of all the money that I, my guild, and my friends will be throwing at them. So many whiners….

Azthioth.9682:

First off, I agree with the OP.

I cannot log on to most cities without being in overflow which was not the case 2 weeks ago.

All I see in LA is LFG Fotm 1-19, or lfg (name dungeon) people are playing way more than they did 2 weeks ago.

If you would stop whining for 2 sec. NO ONE has yet to prove how any of this will hurt the game. All you use is anecdotal evidence to prove your paranoia. No one knows the future. If two items that can only be gotten by months of playing the same dungeon is creating a gear treadmill, the treadmill must be set to UBER SLOW.

Also, it is not a grind. I LOVE the new dungeons. TA and AC are horrible dungeons, just awful. Fotm is so much fun. I am above level 5 but I will run 1-5 at any time. Why? Because they are amazing. Oh, and I see people all the time, my guild included, doing the same thing.

I have a reason to keep playing. I now see a future for this game. Before it was boring dungeon grinds to get pretty gear then do nothing. Sure I could make up content like see how fast I can run around LA but I didn’t pay 60 bucks to come up with my own games. What I mean by this is not that I can grind for gear, but that if the Fotm dungeons are the future, I WANT TO KEEP PLAYING. I don’t care about your stupid kittening gear, I just want to have fun.

NOTHING from these new pieces of “grinded treadmill” gear will make 1 bit of difference in WvW. Especially since all you conveniently miss the part where the gear will be made available OUTSIDE THE DUNGEON.

So freaking seriously, kitten and enjoy the game. Just because Anet isnt catering tot he GW1 crowd, doesn’t mean you get to clog the forums with your whining.

Anet won’t be able to see your tears because of all the money that I, my guild, and my friends will be throwing at them. So many whiners….

The only reason LA is in overflow is because the entire rest of the world is empty.

Just because you think explorables suck doesn’t mean everyone else does. They were going gangbusters before the patch, and THEY didn’t require superior loot to attract people.

If you either removed the superior loot from the dungeon, or spread that dungeon’s superior loot to everywhere else, you’d probably see FOTM drop to the same population as any ONE of the existing explorables.

Your anecdotes mean nothing, but the fact ANet just cut the price of the deluxe edition to that of the standard edition shows the oppostie of what you say in a very substantive manner.

I love how, when faced with the overwhelming majority of players, the minority’s only response is to try to refer to their opposition as the “vocal minority”. No one is actually stupid enough to believe that (not even the person making the comment), but they try anyway.

Yes, this event will be dubbed a success. They introduced a gear grind and made only 1 location to get it from. Any player who wants to remain up to date on their gear has no choice but to run fractals to get it, and of course Anet will look at that and say “Oh, aren’t fractals so wonderfully successful?!”

Manipulation at its finest.

Azthioth.9682:

If you would stop whining for 2 sec. NO ONE has yet to prove how any of this will hurt the game.

It’s already hurting the game. On most servers most of the content is now dead. In LA (where most people are) overflow queues are getting shorter. Not even once since the patch have i needed to queue for WvWvW entry.

Astralporing.1957:

Azthioth.9682:

If you would stop whining for 2 sec. NO ONE has yet to prove how any of this will hurt the game.

It’s already hurting the game. On most servers most of the content is now dead. In LA (where most people are) overflow queues are getting shorter. Not even once since the patch have i needed to queue for WvWvW entry.

Everywhere I play there are players. I don’t see a shortage anywhere. Enough to play any DE I’m involved in. I started two new characters today, one human, one silvari. Again, many players in both starting zones.

So, I’m not experiencing the same lack of players, the same “dead content”, as your suggesting.

There is no proof either way.

You can’t say how many players have dropped off after the LS update, just as I cannot say how many players have stayed.

You can’t say how many players are disappointed with the update just as I can’t say how many players could care less.

But all of you know this. You know any opinion either way is just that: opinion. Speculation about the effect a new tier will have, conjecture on how it affects Anet’s revenue.

You say content on most servers is dead. How do you know this? Do you have empirical evidence? Have you taken your own polls? What basis do you or anyone else have to suggest this?

I, nor my guild or my friends have observed one single shred of evidence to suggest that guilds are disbanding, players are emptying out, zones are completely dead. Not one bit. I’m I saying its not happening? No, I’m saying from my perspective and others I know, they’re enjoying, and excited that Anet is continually updating. Our opinion is, for an F2P, you can’t beat it. Very promising.

Also, on guildwars2.com, reddit.com/r/Guildwars2, mmorpg.com forums, massively, etc. you name it, I haven’t read or heard the same outcry as I’ve seen here. My observations, that of my friends and my guild, the players I’ve spoken to in-game, and from reviewing the other sites I’ve mentioned, are evidence enough for me that nothing is wrong. I’m not saying the game is bug-free, I’m not saying it doesn’t need improvements in areas. I’m saying what you and others are suggesting as a mass exodus of players because of Ascended gear is, in my opinion, simply not the case.

As a crafter who’s been cut off from gathering the mats needed for end game gear from any other source other then this single dungeon, I can tell you we’re definitely NOT the minority. Unless by minority you mean, those players who spend more then five minutes in a game and who don’t jump to the next shiny that’s released with a fancy title or box cover.

The minority here are the dungeoneers just like the minority is the pvp’ers. Those two have had a very long history of only temporarily jumping the numbers and then leaving a game out in the cold when it counts. Those of us who explore, RP, gather, craft, and care about looks and not spreadsheets should be the focus of any game developer because we are the ones who keep the profit margins going long after the crowds interested only in stats and theorycrafting have long gone.

Natural.7013:

Xandax.1753:

Natural.7013:

“Adding new dungeons to the Fractal of the Mists.”

“We’re very excited about the new content, and from the reactions we have seen, so are many of you. Players have already spent an incredible amount of time in the new Fractals dungeon, and their reaction to it has been phenomenal. "

Something is driving this viewpoint.

Well – yeah. It’s called PR.
Is this your first dealings with a company?

Keep it classy. Of course there’s PR there, but you think they really would add more of these if all the forum haters were the only data they use?

They have added nothing yet more yet.
Your own thread title; Actions speak louder…..

Hence – it’s merely PR. Much like how they lured many of us in with – amongst others their manifesto and how they wanted to make the grindable gear cosmetic.
However reading your ‘replies’ to other posts in here, I’m sure you already know this.

This game can’t thrive on cosmetics alone. It needs depth, it needs competition, it needs the game modes to make people wanna fight tooth and nail to be on top of a ladder. Right now, it has nothing that really keeps people playing…EXCEPT for Fotm atm.

There’s alot of hurt over this “manifesto”. The game was gonna be another niche game like GW1 at best. Now, maybe, MAYBE it has a shot to be much more if they add more depth and challenge. Fotm was the first real challenge this game has to offer. There’s literally nothing that is difficult in this game or has anyone tensing up, hoping that they hit that boss one last time and kill it before they wipe, or a tense pvp match where people are fighting tooth and nail.

Until now… Fotm has some of that at 10+ and even more at 20+. We need more depth and more competitive game modes. Revamp what is supposed to be “Esport” that’s what we need.

Natural.7013:

This game can’t thrive on cosmetics alone.

I hear second life and gw1 were just the most horrific flop.. oh wait.

It needs depth, it needs competition, it needs the game modes to make people wanna fight tooth and nail to be on top of a ladder. Right now, it has nothing that really keeps people playing…EXCEPT for Fotm atm.

There’s alot of hurt over this “manifesto”. The game was gonna be another niche game like GW1 at best. Now, maybe, MAYBE it has a shot to be much more if they add more depth and challenge. Fotm was the first real challenge this game has to offer. There’s literally nothing that is difficult in this game or has anyone tensing up, hoping that they hit that boss one last time and kill it before they wipe, or a tense pvp match where people are fighting tooth and nail.

Until now… Fotm has some of that at 10+ and even more at 20+. We need more depth and more competitive game modes. Revamp what is supposed to be “Esport” that’s what we need.

Please tell me what is “deep” and “challenging” about the mechanic of agony and the fact that it is overcome not by skill, but by stacking resist?

There is plenty of depth in this game right now. People are constantly discovering new builds in their chosen professions. You have tanking melee elementalists, healing thieves, etc. The storyline is compelling, the crafting system is an endless labyrinth of exploration, the world’s dynamic events let you cruise around saving the day like batman, and the list goes on and on.

The competitive play you ask for is in the many types of PVP. Some is still unrefined zerg on zerg, but the smaller scale versions are quite competitive and your skill matters.

So far as being top of the pve ladder, it was there before the stupid FotM dungeons and was demonstrated by sporting a full set of Arah skins — the only reason to have higher stats is to facilitate elitist griefing and the undermining of skill as a factor in pvp.

All FotM accomplishes is:
A – Pushing anyone who wants to be current into a set of dungeons they’d otherwise not want to do, and in so doing emptying the rest of the game’s many different segments.

B – Splintering even those in the community who want to do FotM for the sake of FotM rather than as a “chore” because its the only avenue for the gear through its ill-conceived gating system.

C – Encouraging people to be insufferable kittens and say things like “link exotics or be kicked, must be level XX or you can’t come”

I agree with OP. I would like to add this though the only way to keep from bottlenecking the FoTM dungeon is by adding the ascended gear to all of the other dungeons as well. This can be done very easly. The Devs already stated that the ascended gear will be made avaliable in other ways and not just this one dungeon. Right now FoTM is the only source for ascended gear. That will change in the weeks and months ahead. Just be a little patient.

This thread was brought to you by pro gear grinders.

That same group of people has made the world of Tyria seem more empty than ever after the new dungeon was released, but no the dungeon is a great success and the game is more lively than ever according to them. Get out of Lion’s Arch for once please.

1. Skinner box is successful on all mammals, including humans

2. WoW does it way better

3. See what Jeff Strain, ANet cofounder, had to say on this matter http://www.guildwars.com/events/tradeshows/gc2007/gcspeech.php

Conner.4702:

This thread was brought to you by pro gear grinders.

That same group of people has made the world of Tyria seem more empty than ever after the new dungeon was released, but no the dungeon is a great success and the game is more lively than ever according to them. Get out of Lion’s Arch for once please.

Funny cos Ive been busy farming, leveling up another toon, doing fractals etc. And only Orr has taken a hit in player numbers from my own experiance. Maybe you need to open your eyes while out and about in the world.

And will people please just shut the kitten up about vocal minoritys this and majoritys that. You dont have the numbers Anet has so you aint got a clue. Ur guessing and hoping your right.

moirweyn.9872:

That was a load of corporate babble speak crap.

The only way to get the new gear is in the new dungeon. Period. So they see that a lot of people are doing the new dungeons right now and not the dynamic content so the players must want new dungeons all the time! Let’s give them new dungeons all the time and make it the only way to get better gear in the game forever!

I totally agree with this.

If the new lower Ascended rings were 50k karma from a vendor, and the higher tier rings were 100k, I can pretty much guarantee there’d be drastically less people in the FotM than there are now. I’m 6 or 7 dailies without a ring, and I’m sick of the dungeons. Not that they’re bad, but how many times can one repeat the exact same content for no reward and still find it “fun”, especially with all the problems with FotM (DCs, fragmented players on different levels, etc).

The fact is, these are better items than exotics and there’s only one place to get them, they affect every other aspect of the game, but you are forced to go to the FotM if you want them – and then get lucky on top of that.

So it’s no wonder that so many people are doing FotM.

But notice how many people use every bug possible, and skip as many mobs as possible, to get done? That’s not a sign that they are enjoying the content, if you ask me.

“And will people please just shut the kitten up about vocal minoritys this and majoritys that. You dont have the numbers Anet has so you aint got a clue. Ur guessing and hoping your right.”

Xfire has successfully trailed numbers for all “western” mmos to date.

Are you familiar with the descriptive term “failcascade”?

Zid.4196:

3. See what Jeff Strain, ANet cofounder, had to say on this matter http://www.guildwars.com/events/tradeshows/gc2007/gcspeech.php

Does Jeff Strain still work at Anet?

I read that entire link, and agree with him on pretty much all points, and the reason I ask is that it seems that Anet has specifically, and seemingly intentionally, gone against a few of his points.

Indeed. Unfortunately, I don’t think Jeff Strain works for Anet in any capacity anymore. That said, the speech he gave is a must-read for mmo devs everywhere.

Zid.4196:

“And will people please just shut the kitten up about vocal minoritys this and majoritys that. You dont have the numbers Anet has so you aint got a clue. Ur guessing and hoping your right.”

Xfire has successfully trailed numbers for all “western” mmos to date.

Are you familiar with the descriptive term “failcascade”?

If we want to take Xfire seriously, the current statistics show that despite the exponential increase in hours played during the launch of the patch, it decreased just as fast to where it was before.

http://beta.xfire.com/games/gw2

Clearly the new gear grind did a spectacular job at retaining players.

Jeff Strain runs his own company now, that should say something by itself.

Also, contrary to popular belief, the silent majority doesn’t implicitly agree with the changes to the game. When they like something, they say nothing, when they don’t like something, they simply quit while still saying nothing.

The only people who will have truly accurate statistics from the game and from that survey are a.net and they’re unlikely to reveal them, especially if they’re quite negative ones.

plasmacutter.2709:

Natural.7013:

With all the vocal minority inundating the forums, it was no surprise that Whiteside coined the Fotm, event and new content a success. These forums were slammed with the same few thousand people complaining about the new gear and dungeon. Yet, the proof will be in the pudding in the end. MMO companies use metrics to help determine direction and a great many things about how they will move forward in their game.

Sure, they listen to feedback, but they also put alot of stock into the actions of players. If they see a good turnout in the dungeons on a daily basis, keep concurrency consistent and people wearing the new items by the hundreds of thousands, then it is definitely a success.

People that claim the forum spam is the majority could in fact really be in the minority by a large margin. We will never really know since MMO companies usually don’t reveal the metrics/data they keep.

Personally, I think they saw a huge population in exotic gear at 80 with little to do and average concurrency going south. The game is ultra simplistic and caters to casuals more than most MMOs. Your not in your GW1 Tyria anymore either. If this is to be a true mmorpg, then they are likely watching their metrics on a weekly basis and holding meetings to debrief the data…that data must show people were in need of Ascended gear and dungeons worth doing and reasons to log in.

This is a boatload of crap and you know it.

Let’s move the Ascended gear to all the known sources for exotics and see if FotM has more than a tiny fraction of the playerbase.

When FOTM ceases to be the ONLY source for the best gear in the game, THEN we can start to get true metrics on it.

As it stands now, all FOTM is doing is killing the rest of the game and encouraging incredibly bad behavior as it fragments the community.

Exactly. While it’s a shame they abandoned the ‘no gear grind’ statement, what’s worse is the fragmentation FOTM causes. The idea of fractals isn’t bad, but the grouping requirement is horrible. Even people in your own guild don’t want to play at a level lower than they are (understandable), and with so many levels, it’s a pain to get a group.

Spin: “We’re very excited about the new content, and from the reactions we have seen, so are many of you.”

Fact: The reaction to the new content has created the largest reaction on the forums to date. Most of this reaction has been critical. “Excited” is not necessarily a good thing.

I see the naysayers are up early this morning. These forums do not represent anything, but those that are vocal. Anet added Fotm and are adding more in the future. Why? No one has answered that with any credibility, so we must speculate. The answer lies somewhere between business and need to make money and metrics they use to measure the activities and player achievements in the world.

Here’s the thing, this content was under development and planned before launch. Was it just not finished enough for end of August, or pre-planned for a November release? Peole standing around in Orr in full exotics by October have anything to do with November? We will never know for sure what or when they came up with Fotm.

Vegas.5790:

plasmacutter.2709:

Natural.7013:

With all the vocal minority inundating the forums, it was no surprise that Whiteside coined the Fotm, event and new content a success. These forums were slammed with the same few thousand people complaining about the new gear and dungeon. Yet, the proof will be in the pudding in the end. MMO companies use metrics to help determine direction and a great many things about how they will move forward in their game.

Sure, they listen to feedback, but they also put alot of stock into the actions of players. If they see a good turnout in the dungeons on a daily basis, keep concurrency consistent and people wearing the new items by the hundreds of thousands, then it is definitely a success.

People that claim the forum spam is the majority could in fact really be in the minority by a large margin. We will never really know since MMO companies usually don’t reveal the metrics/data they keep.

Personally, I think they saw a huge population in exotic gear at 80 with little to do and average concurrency going south. The game is ultra simplistic and caters to casuals more than most MMOs. Your not in your GW1 Tyria anymore either. If this is to be a true mmorpg, then they are likely watching their metrics on a weekly basis and holding meetings to debrief the data…that data must show people were in need of Ascended gear and dungeons worth doing and reasons to log in.

This is a boatload of crap and you know it.

Let’s move the Ascended gear to all the known sources for exotics and see if FotM has more than a tiny fraction of the playerbase.

When FOTM ceases to be the ONLY source for the best gear in the game, THEN we can start to get true metrics on it.

As it stands now, all FOTM is doing is killing the rest of the game and encouraging incredibly bad behavior as it fragments the community.

Exactly. While it’s a shame they abandoned the ‘no gear grind’ statement, what’s worse is the fragmentation FOTM causes. The idea of fractals isn’t bad, but the grouping requirement is horrible. Even people in your own guild don’t want to play at a level lower than they are (understandable), and with so many levels, it’s a pain to get a group.

gw2lfg website 14 levels from using that so far.

Yes, some things need adjusting, but the concept is great, now the implementation needs work.

It’s a done deal now anyway. All this arguing isn’t going to change that.

Zid.4196:

“And will people please just shut the kitten up about vocal minoritys this and majoritys that. You dont have the numbers Anet has so you aint got a clue. Ur guessing and hoping your right.”

Xfire has successfully trailed numbers for all “western” mmos to date.

Are you familiar with the descriptive term “failcascade”?

Source of proof that xfire is accurate? Xfire holds statistics for those that log into a given game using their software?

…unless you are a mime.

What i don’t get is why Anet wants people to play for the gear instead of playing for the fun of the gameplay.
Don’t tell me that repeating x ad nauseam just for some reward is fun gameplay; the fun should be in “x”, not in getting the reward.

I guess the litmus test for how much fun “x” is, is “would you do x if you would not get a reward for completing it”?

This game is so casual as it is I really don’t it it. If they don’t make the pvp more competitive and the pve have more depth, it won’t matter anyhow.

@Slazzysaud “Also, on guildwars2.com, reddit.com/r/Guildwars2, mmorpg.com forums, massively, etc. you name it, I haven’t read or heard the same outcry as I’ve seen here.”

If you like the product change, that is fine. But please at least get your facts straight.

Discontent, negativity and concern over Arenanet redesigning GW2 is not isolated to these forums.

There are many threads and comments with people stating that they disagree with the change and the negative impact it is having. Here a few examples based on your list.

1. MMORPG.com http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/370114/page/1 (5 pages of replies and growing).
2. Reddit.com http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13itad/now_that_ascended_gear_is_available_what_is_it/
3. Massively http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/14/arenanet-responds-to-guild-wars-2-ascended-gear-gripes/ (over 300 comments discussing Arenanet’s only response to date to those concerned about the new gear stat tier).

Below are a few more user review sites that I found discussing the change.

1. Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/Guild-Wars-2-Pc/product-reviews/B001TOQ8X4/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
2. Metacritic.com http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/guild-wars-2/user-reviews?sort-by=date&num_items=100

There is no real way for us to determine whether those opposing the new gear tier or those in favour of it are the majority.

But what we can do is compare the reactions on the forums. There were people crying about lack of progress at lvl 80. Most of them were probably those who didn’t inform themselves beforehand about what this game was supposed to be about (e.g. casual and not gear grindy). And they were vocal. Unsatisfied people tend to be that way more than satisfied ones.

But there are now, as far as I can see here, way more people that are unsatisfied, to say the least.

So, we can’t really decide what the majority of players actually wants. But we can see that more people are willing to come to the forums to cry out their frustration about the recent changes than there were people willing to come here to cry out their frustration about the lack of vertical progression.

Draw what you will from that, but for me it seems more likely that more people are angry about the move than there are people happy with it.