People who have been playing since the release of GW2 might remember some of the old Dailies – stuff like:
Daily Condition Applier
Daily Condition Remover
Daily Skill Interruptor
Daily Combo Killer
Daily Dodger
Daily Healer
I really liked those dailies as they forced people to understand how their classes (combo-fields, condition removel, etc.) and the general gameplay work (for example: reviving is (most of the time) a good thing).
Just look at how many players nowadays don’t understand break-bars. They complain about mobs being way too hard and if you go to help them you’ll notice that they totally ignore the BBs.
So why not add back the old dailies and add new ones like a “Daily Bar Breaker” daily which requires players to break 3 break-bars (and other game-mechanic related things).
That way, players would at least have a small reason/incentive to learn about how their classes and the game work without ANet having to create elaborate tutorials.
Yeah, “real” tutorials would be nice – but in my experience a lot of people will just skip them. And it would most likely take ANet a lot more ressources to add them to the game than adding daily-achivements.
Yeah, “real” tutorials would be nice – but in my experience a lot of people will just skip them. And it would most likely take ANet a lot more ressources to add them to the game than adding daily-achivements.
At least new event scaling with more Veterans and Elites would be nice.
A lot of the events in Core-Tyria should be on a much higher level already when there are 5+ Players.
It should involve knowing your class to do event chains in Orr, at least in my opinion.
Heck, i’d like it if the outpost system from HoT was moved to Orr because it would actually fit the maps.
Tutorials need to be done in a 1vs1 situation. As a daily, people would accidentally finish the breakbar daily while zerging.
If they actually wanted to teach people, they would have had a boss in the story that had to be broken, with the NPCs pointing it out and maybe even a UI popup. It needs to be somewhere that everyone’s going to be forced into it. Hero challenges for example could have been done like adventures and designed as tests.
More daily variety would be welcome. The “cycle” is boring as heck right now.
Not just boring but frustrating. Go to an easy vista. Gather some mats. Then try to get to 4 events before they end. What does that teach you? How to use the ‘f’ key and punch your monitor because an event ended seconds after it was announced? Note that this is PVE, the other modes are pretty much the same for people that have played them before.
I am all for dailies that actually mean something. Especially if they are not tied to a specific zone so people can just incorporate them into their normal play.
People who have been playing since the release of GW2 might remember some of the old Dailies – stuff like:
Daily Condition Applier
Daily Condition Remover
Daily Skill Interruptor
Daily Combo Killer
Daily Dodger
Daily Healer
I really liked those dailies as they forced people to understand how their classes (combo-fields, condition removel, etc.) and the general gameplay work (for example: reviving is (most of the time) a good thing).
Just look at how many players nowadays don’t understand break-bars. They complain about mobs being way too hard and if you go to help them you’ll notice that they totally ignore the BBs.
So why not add back the old dailies and add new ones like a “Daily Bar Breaker” daily which requires players to break 3 break-bars (and other game-mechanic related things).
That way, players would at least have a small reason/incentive to learn about how their classes and the game work without ANet having to create elaborate tutorials.
Agreed. I miss those old school dailies. It would be nice if they included them. No need to replace the current ones, just add a bit more variety to the pool. Requiring more than 3 might be a good idea too.
Still one worth bringing back and maybe have a look at it.
Combo Fields should be a key mechanic for PvE but many people i end up talking to in game don’t know jack about them and are actually surprised what you can do if you try to use them to your advantage.
Only one I ever did of those was daily dodger and healer (if you mean daily rez). As it is now, dailies are meant to get players to do certain activities and visit certain maps, not perform certain mechanics.
Only one I ever did of those was daily dodger and healer (if you mean daily rez). As it is now, dailies are meant to get players to do certain activities and visit certain maps, not perform certain mechanics.
A mixture of both would be nice though. Especially since a few of those would be done regardless of area so no pressure.
Yeah, “real” tutorials would be nice – but in my experience a lot of people will just skip them. And it would most likely take ANet a lot more ressources to add them to the game than adding daily-achivements.
At least new event scaling with more Veterans and Elites would be nice.
A lot of the events in Core-Tyria should be on a much higher level already when there are 5+ Players.
It should involve knowing your class to do event chains in Orr, at least in my opinion.
Heck, i’d like it if the outpost system from HoT was moved to Orr because it would actually fit the maps.
What is so interesting about making an HP sponge into a bigger sponge?
If they ever get around to implementing the scaling they mentioned before launch then that would be different story.
outpost system? I do’t remember how that works.
also i’d love these old daylies to get back, it’s never bad to learn more about our classes, and many things we just forget…
the only problem is that it takes considerably less time to do some of these than the ones we have now…
I’m all in favor of more in-game tutorials for both fundamental mechanics (everything on the OP’s list) and basic tactics. I don’t think adding these to the Daily rotation is the best way for players to learn (and in some cases, I think it encourages bad habits).
So +1 to the OP’s goal; I only object to the proposed mechanism for achieving that goal.
These mechanics are much more likely to require active engagement by the player. Unfortunately, they seemed to have been removed because their triggers were wonky.
Combos: How do you ensure that your combo is responsible for a foe death? (And if you make it just applying a combo, it’s as trivial as the three above).
Interrupter: The classically-trained Bear Bow™ pushes back foes using indiscriminate Point Blank Shots — is that what we want newer players to learn?
Dodger: a lot of people dodge when they should shuffle-step or just, you know, walk out of an AoE, resulting in folks who are out of dodges when they really need one. Again, is this what we want folks to learn?
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Yeah, “real” tutorials would be nice – but in my experience a lot of people will just skip them. And it would most likely take ANet a lot more ressources to add them to the game than adding daily-achivements.
At least new event scaling with more Veterans and Elites would be nice.
A lot of the events in Core-Tyria should be on a much higher level already when there are 5+ Players.
It should involve knowing your class to do event chains in Orr, at least in my opinion.
Heck, i’d like it if the outpost system from HoT was moved to Orr because it would actually fit the maps.
What is so interesting about making an HP sponge into a bigger sponge?
If they ever get around to implementing the scaling they mentioned before launch then that would be different story.
If you’d read my former post as well i would love to see Vets have more advanced builds from normal foes and Elites more advanced from Vets.
That’s how those things should work and in some games did work (CoX for example had a great Trash-Mob Tier system where each different Tier added or changed how a foe worked).
And honestly, what normal foe is a HP sponge? Most normal foes in core game fall with you looking at them, now if they had some updated mechanics (1 poison stack spider spray should apply at least 3 stacks), and would fulfil different roles in a meaningful way (Undead Healers for example, they do exist), that would be something else again.
What i want is for foes to actually pose a challenge, heck i’d reduce the amount of damage power can dish out by quite a margain, the whole game needs a rework in regards of damage, buffs, healing and so forth.
(Please consider i want this for events mainly, although the average foe could use a look at too…)
People who have been playing since the release of GW2 might remember some of the old Dailies – stuff like:
Daily Condition Applier
Daily Condition Remover
Daily Skill Interruptor
Daily Combo Killer
Daily Dodger
Daily Healer
I really liked those dailies as they forced people to understand how their classes (combo-fields, condition removel, etc.) and the general gameplay work (for example: reviving is (most of the time) a good thing).
Just look at how many players nowadays don’t understand break-bars. They complain about mobs being way too hard and if you go to help them you’ll notice that they totally ignore the BBs.
So why not add back the old dailies and add new ones like a “Daily Bar Breaker” daily which requires players to break 3 break-bars (and other game-mechanic related things).
That way, players would at least have a small reason/incentive to learn about how their classes and the game work without ANet having to create elaborate tutorials.
I have been waiting for a post like this for years.
Yes!! Bring back a system of dailies that was actually fun and helped me to learn my class!
This new tour of Tyria is boring and tends to force me to forgo all but the simplest of dailies be sure of the limited time I have to play duribg the week thanks to my professional life.
I did not particularly care for these before, but didnt hate them either. As long as they were additions to the existing list rather than replacements…sure, why not.
Yeah, “real” tutorials would be nice – but in my experience a lot of people will just skip them. And it would most likely take ANet a lot more ressources to add them to the game than adding daily-achivements.
At least new event scaling with more Veterans and Elites would be nice.
A lot of the events in Core-Tyria should be on a much higher level already when there are 5+ Players.
It should involve knowing your class to do event chains in Orr, at least in my opinion.
Heck, i’d like it if the outpost system from HoT was moved to Orr because it would actually fit the maps.
What is so interesting about making an HP sponge into a bigger sponge?
If they ever get around to implementing the scaling they mentioned before launch then that would be different story.
If you’d read my former post as well i would love to see Vets have more advanced builds from normal foes and Elites more advanced from Vets.
That’s how those things should work and in some games did work (CoX for example had a great Trash-Mob Tier system where each different Tier added or changed how a foe worked).
And honestly, what normal foe is a HP sponge? Most normal foes in core game fall with you looking at them, now if they had some updated mechanics (1 poison stack spider spray should apply at least 3 stacks), and would fulfil different roles in a meaningful way (Undead Healers for example, they do exist), that would be something else again.
What i want is for foes to actually pose a challenge, heck i’d reduce the amount of damage power can dish out by quite a margain, the whole game needs a rework in regards of damage, buffs, healing and so forth.
(Please consider i want this for events mainly, although the average foe could use a look at too…)
Going from normal → veteran → elite is mostly just piling on HP and damage with a few exceptions. Same with scaling their levels above the player which also adds glancing blows effectively increase the HP pool without changing other things.
Yeah, “real” tutorials would be nice – but in my experience a lot of people will just skip them. And it would most likely take ANet a lot more ressources to add them to the game than adding daily-achivements.
At least new event scaling with more Veterans and Elites would be nice.
A lot of the events in Core-Tyria should be on a much higher level already when there are 5+ Players.
It should involve knowing your class to do event chains in Orr, at least in my opinion.
Heck, i’d like it if the outpost system from HoT was moved to Orr because it would actually fit the maps.
What is so interesting about making an HP sponge into a bigger sponge?
If they ever get around to implementing the scaling they mentioned before launch then that would be different story.
If you’d read my former post as well i would love to see Vets have more advanced builds from normal foes and Elites more advanced from Vets.
That’s how those things should work and in some games did work (CoX for example had a great Trash-Mob Tier system where each different Tier added or changed how a foe worked).
And honestly, what normal foe is a HP sponge? Most normal foes in core game fall with you looking at them, now if they had some updated mechanics (1 poison stack spider spray should apply at least 3 stacks), and would fulfil different roles in a meaningful way (Undead Healers for example, they do exist), that would be something else again.
What i want is for foes to actually pose a challenge, heck i’d reduce the amount of damage power can dish out by quite a margain, the whole game needs a rework in regards of damage, buffs, healing and so forth.
(Please consider i want this for events mainly, although the average foe could use a look at too…)
Going from normal -> veteran -> elite is mostly just piling on HP and damage with a few exceptions. Same with scaling their levels above the player which also adds glancing blows effectively increase the HP pool without changing other things.
Hence i’m calling for a rework of it all. Thanks for reading.
These mechanics are much more likely to require active engagement by the player. Unfortunately, they seemed to have been removed because their triggers were wonky.
Combos: How do you ensure that your combo is responsible for a foe death? (And if you make it just applying a combo, it’s as trivial as the three above).
Interrupter: The classically-trained Bear Bow™ pushes back foes using indiscriminate Point Blank Shots — is that what we want newer players to learn?
Dodger: a lot of people dodge when they should shuffle-step or just, you know, walk out of an AoE, resulting in folks who are out of dodges when they really need one. Again, is this what we want folks to learn?
The point is not to necessarily re-introduce the same dailies that we had before, but dailies that at least try to teach people some things about gameplay-mechanics (and i really don’t care if they can be done way quicker than current dailies – lets be honest, 9 out of 10 times, the 3 dailies you need for the “Daily Completionist” can be done in just a few minutes).
And to answer your question: yes, thats what we want people to learn… because that would mean that at least they learned something. After spending a LOT of time playing with people in EotM, WvW and PvE I’m pretty sure that a lot of people don’t even know what most of their skills do. And if they at least start to understand “Skill X does THIS” or “Skill Y does THAT”, that would be an improvement over “I just push random buttons and see if i survive”.
Personally I think its kinda hilarious that ANet did so many changes to the game when they introduced the “New Player Experience” back in 2014 but totally failed in adding things to it, that people actually teach how the combat-system works.
Btw. there are some Living World episodes that actually try to teach people game-mechanics. Like the “Hidden Arcana”-mission (where you have to get certain buffs to destroy the fragments, etc.) or recently in “Precocious Aurene” when they tell you about Aurene’s special attack. I wish they would do something like this in the early personal story steps to explain the basic game-mechanics.
Btw. there are some Living World episodes that actually try to teach people game-mechanics. Like the “Hidden Arcana”-mission (where you have to get certain buffs to destroy the fragments, etc.) or recently in “Precocious Aurene” when they tell you about Aurene’s special attack. I wish they would do something like this in the early personal story steps to explain the basic game-mechanics.
Someone was clearly thinking about it because the starter zones each have something to show you how to dodge. There was pretty much nothing else to teach mechanics until we got the cc oysters in Ember Bay.
More daily variety would be welcome. The “cycle” is boring as heck right now.
Not exactly what OP intended, I’m sure. Though I definitely am for some more passive dailies that would simply involve playing the game anywhere, as well as focusing on what you’re actually doing. (although for me it’s just playing the game in most of the proposed dailies)
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
I did not particularly care for these before, but didnt hate them either. As long as they were additions to the existing list rather than replacements…sure, why not.
This. Though I doubt the efficacy of dailies as a teaching tool. There’s too much randomness and visual clutter in events done by groups for people that don’t already know to be able to pick out what’s happening.
The point is not to necessarily re-introduce the same dailies that we had before, but dailies that at least try to teach people some things about gameplay-mechanics (and i really don’t care if they can be done way quicker than current dailies – lets be honest, 9 out of 10 times, the 3 dailies you need for the “Daily Completionist” can be done in just a few minutes).
I don’t care about quicker — what I care about is that it happens without anyone needing to learn a thing. You can get daily condition without learning how to apply conditions.
And to answer your question: yes, thats what we want people to learn… because that would mean that at least they learned something.
You really think the game needs people to learn how to knock foes out of meteor showers instead of instead learning to keep foes in the AoE? I’d rather folks remained ignorant until they find a mentor (in-game or via videos) rather than learn habits that make things worse.
After spending a LOT of time playing with people in EotM, WvW and PvE I’m pretty sure that a lot of people don’t even know what most of their skills do. And if they at least start to understand “Skill X does THIS” or “Skill Y does THAT”, that would be an improvement over “I just push random buttons and see if i survive”.
I’m sure you’re right that people don’t know what some (or even most) skills do. So wouldn’t it be better for ANet to offer more opportunities to learn the nuances instead of offering overly-simplistic dailies that ignore the trade-offs?
Personally I think its kinda hilarious that ANet did so many changes to the game when they introduced the “New Player Experience” back in 2014 but totally failed in adding things to it, that people actually teach how the combat-system works.
I was disappointed, too, that they didn’t include more tutorials. They re-invented the learning curve for leveling up, which was a good start; they could also have done more than give people a reward for dodging.
Btw. there are some Living World episodes that actually try to teach people game-mechanics. Like the “Hidden Arcana”-mission (where you have to get certain buffs to destroy the fragments, etc.) or recently in “Precocious Aurene” when they tell you about Aurene’s special attack. I wish they would do something like this in the early personal story steps to explain the basic game-mechanics.
Yes, I agree — I’d much rather that they do things like that instead of getting diverted by rewarding bad habits via the daily system.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
@Illconceived – I don’t think that its impossible to make these dailies teach players how to play the game better. They could easily be stuff along the lines of
Break the Shatterers defiance bar
Open X clams in Embers Bay (though hopefully they would add those clams to core tyria maps as well). Requires knowing your CC skills and starts to associate those skills with the blue bar
Dodge X world boss attacks. Teaches players how to dodge well choreographed attacks. This can easily translate into them learning how to dodge more efficiently in general
Condis are harder to do well, but it wouldn’t be that bad if they were something along the lines of
Apply X stacks of Y condition using utility skills
This would prevent them from getting it via spamming weapon skills, and makes it less likely that they will get it accidentally since it would require a specific condition to be inflicted. This brings about the potential of players using a utility skill, seeing that they achieved a daily with it and possibly learning something new about their skills.
I would love to see some of those dailies added to new accounts (accounts with the highest character being under 80). They are relatively simple to understand, and they do teach (or remind) players about mechanics.
I’m not sure they would be useful for most people who are at level 80, as in they wouldn’t expand or reinforce any gameplay. Granted I don’t see some current level 80 dailies as being useful, but that’s a whole other forum topic .
PS: I just realized my idea is moot thanks to the level 80 boost… Ah well, hope you enjoyed reading my rambling.
PPS: I do like the expanded interpretation that OriOri has above.
@Ori: I like that better than the implied suggestion in the original post. I agree that it is possible for dailies to be designed in a way that encourages people to learn. My concern remains the same: once people learn how to cheeze dailies (and people always do), they cease to be as effective as teaching tools; they just become chores (easy or grindy or whatever).
Consequently, I still think that it would be a better use of ANet resources to build tutorials. (And, as others have suggested, include more of these core mechanics/tactics as requires steps in personal and living story instances.)
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
They should just try that, like simply change the text on the kill daily to breaking it just to test if people actually do it. I rarely go out there anymore, maybe once in 3 months on average, but from what I’ve seen, it’s bad. Making old stuff like that a daily is the only way they’re going to get the average zergs to do it.
None of that would actually teach players however. Obviously breaking the bar is a group effort, so random attacks that happened to have CC would work. Dodging? Dodge/evade randomly. Specific conditions on specific skills? Too limited.
If they actually want to teach something, they need specific events that must be done the way they’re intended and in a 1 on 1 situation where others can’t do it for you, like adventures. For combo fields for example, there could be an exercise where your skills are the finishers, your utilities are the fields and your objective is something like killing elementals by using their opposing elements. For example, there could be an ice elemental where only burning would damage it, might would greatly multiply the damage (without it – why is this taking so long?) and fire shield would block its attacks (or you’d die eventually). Now imagine stuff like that being something you’re going to do on every character, like hero challenges.
No to the dodge one, that one is murder to people with bad pings. Used to drive me up the wall trying to get it.
The great thing about dailies is that there is a ton of variety and you only ever have to do a small fraction of them to get the AP, gold and spirit shards.
No to the dodge one, that one is murder to people with bad pings. Used to drive me up the wall trying to get it.
The great thing about dailies is that there is a ton of variety and you only ever have to do a small fraction of them to get the AP, gold and spirit shards.
Didn’t used to be that way. Back when the dodge one was used, it was all or nothing. Obviously that’s no longer the case, but all the same its kinda a stupid task.
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