Guild Wars 2

~tink~ ~tink~

[Repair Golems at Work]

This would be a great addition and also a nice resource sink for the economy. Maybe thick leather would gain some value.

Leo G.4501:

It’d also be pretty handy if you had a kind of “digital bookshelf” of books you’ve read and might want to look up again. And by that, I mean a UI tap where you can access anywhere and reference things written by other players or actual in-game lore.

Those lore junkies would likely put such an option to good use if they want to refresh themselves on certain things or for a quick reference to relevant knowledge.

That would be awesome.

Leo G.4501:

While I can see your perspective and this is definitely a concern of the ideas, it’s hardly a negative of the idea itself. “It might be more moderation work” isn’t a negative unless it is a specific additional feature added that could be exploited to disrupt the gameplay of players. This wouldn’t do that.

I don’t think you’ve fully explored the possible advantages and downfalls of the suggestion or your alternatives.

Do you remember that thread discussing the transgender NPC? The reactions? Now imagine a player selling stories on the Trading Post about Queen Jenna being a trans-gendered individual having sex with Logan in the form of an erotic diary.

And boom.

“How dare ANet endorse this!” lights up the boards. Gaming outlets pick it up. And then the media.

Do you think ANet wants that nightmare on their hands?

And that’s just one example of the kitten-storm this suggestion would create. Again, no, not happening. Players can do this on a separate board or website.

Please let’s not open this Pandora’s box.

I’m not even going to entertain a response about the fan-fiction aspect/copyright of this. You want that discussion, go to George R. R. Martin’s page. He’ll give you an earful about it.

penelopehannibal.8947:

What happens if you buy a book from the TP and it’s filled with childish obscenities?
What happens if someone sells a book with graphical eroticism in it, bearing in mind this is a 12+ game?
What happens if you spend 1 gold on a book with only two sentences in it?
What happens if someone creatively manages to use the font to create naughty pictures?

I’m sorry, I don’t think it’s a good idea. Firstly because you wouldn’t always get what you pay for, and secondly, it’d just blow the doors wide open to 4chan style puerility, that the customer has ended up paying for in gold.

Probably not any worse than what you read any number of map chats at any given time.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Do you remember that thread discussing the transgender NPC? The reactions? Now imagine a player selling stories on the Trading Post about Queen Jenna being a trans-gendered individual having sex with Logan in the form of an erotic diary.

And boom.

“How dare ANet endorse this!” lights up the boards. Gaming outlets pick it up. And then the media.

Do you think ANet wants that nightmare on their hands?

And that’s just one example of the kitten-storm this suggestion would create. Again, no, not happening. Players can do this on a separate board or website.

Please let’s not open this Pandora’s box.

I’m not even going to entertain a response about the fan-fiction aspect/copyright of this. You want that discussion, go to George R. R. Martin’s page. He’ll give you an earful about it.

Sensationalism aside, one cannot simply create hypotheticals without thought. There would be moderation. There would be censoring, just like regular chat. There would be character limits as well, partially for bandwidth ease but also for aid in moderation time. There could also be any number of other features such as report buttons, approval times and so on to police things. Just any old sensationalist example won’t make it through to the end users.

Even if horrible material makes it out to the end user, you speak as if it’s the end of the servers. Do the national presses stop to cover some kid spouting obscenities or shouting about in-game character genitalia in map chat? Then what makes the idea of players posting up lines for others to read later any different? And what makes it harder to moderate than regular chat? You’re not thinking logically, you’re thinking emotionally. Lol I can’t have a discussion about you breaking down over text that you chose to read.

Let me understand this. If I disagree with your reasoning, even with examples of why this can detonate in ANet’s face, I’m not thinking ‘logically’, I’m thinking emotionally? Do you have no idea how insulting that was?

I’ll put it in simple words: a bad idea is a bad idea.

And this is a bad idea. The benefits do not outweigh the negatives. Sorry you don’t agree with that opinion, but please keep your response civil. If you can’t do that without saying I’m ‘Having a break down over text’, please don’t respond any further.

There was no need for the personal attacks much less an incorrect assumption.

Well, if you’re not getting emotional, why attempt to strike a chord by mentioning transgender fanfic? Why bring up orientation at all but to somehow moralize specific orientations when the topic, in and of itself, is NOT a moral bomb to detonate in Anet’s face.

If you’re considering the idea logically, stick to logical issues such as bandwidth, moderation times, development resources, etc. No need to fling around wild assumptions, they don’t really carry any weight. I mean, I practically laughed out loud when you mentioned someone posting a some sort of strange erotica with Jenna and tran-gender or whatever. Is anyone suppose to take that example seriously? Because I’ll tell you right now, no body would give a crap and when people do give a crap, it’ll get censored. Simple as that.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Do you remember that thread discussing the transgender NPC? The reactions? Now imagine a player selling stories on the Trading Post about Queen Jenna being a trans-gendered individual having sex with Logan in the form of an erotic diary.

And why would this be a reason to not include the feature as a whole?

I mean, bannable offense is a bannable offense. If you’re not allowed to write derogatory works ingame or you’ll be banned, there, just police it.

The only counterargument is monetary in nature (additional GM work -> more GMs needed).

Otherwise, shutting down the game would work against ingame harassment but isn’t really a sensible scenario, and likewise not implementation a feature because it has the potential to be abused seems silly. People aren’t all bad, surprisingly enough. And the ones who aren’t kittens would still like some nifty features, especially for roleplaying.

(edit)
For your “media picks it up”-example, that’s exactly my point. What you want them to pick up is how the people who tried to abuse this were swiftly dealt with and regrettably, opted to live their days without GW2.
Basically if while writing a news story the ingame story in question already resulted in a ban and was removed, that is the kind of media attention you want. Free advertisement about how awesome your ingame service is.

Ofc, you need to provide it first, and as I said above that’d be the reason they won’t do this. They have too few GMs as it is. Shame, because not even being a RPer, I would love this.

I can’t figure out if you two are this naive, oblivious, or just plain sheltered. The answer is no. Period. If you want to do that mess, feel free to do it offline.

And no, I’m not the first person to mention such a scenario. Please reread the second response in this thread and its responses.

The mere idea anyone thinks that won’t happen is the part that’s laughable. But far be it from me to try to coax anyone down from their Ivory Tower. The view must be nice.

starlinvf.1358:

ewwwwww….. imagine the abuse and massive flood of Logan/Rytlock yoai fan fiction.

To be fair, there’s already a lot of that in CoE story.

heh heh heh

I’m neither for nor against this idea in concept, but could you please elaborate on why exactly this is a good thing to include in-game as opposed to, say, personal blogs, websites, and/or youtube channels, which fulfill exactly the same purpose (minus the “sell on TP” function) and are just as easy to create and share?

Ardenwolfe.8590:

The mere idea anyone thinks that won’t happen is the part that’s laughable.

The whole criticism boils down to:

• Yes, abuse will happen.
• Overall, people are not kittens.
• Overall, the system won’t be abused.
• It is not worth producing inferior games to avoid a minority trying to abuse it (which will try to abuse your game either way, in any case).

That’s the whole point. And that’s btw the basis of much of our society, that things don’t get completely removed just because they have the potential to be abused. Though the modern scaresciety does show some effects of this rather scary thought, friend of mine keeps getting the cops called on him when he’s at the playground with his daughters. Because “there’s this man”.

You agree that the thought that any man near a playground is wrong is rather stupid? Then what’s so bad about adding written books inside GW2 even though some people might abuse it? Punish or restrict the abusers, not everyone pre-emptively.

starlinvf.1358:

ewwwwww….. imagine the abuse and massive flood of Logan/Rytlock yoai fan fiction.

Ooh YEAH, baby!

Where do I get mine?

Where are you going to find the funding to pay for the additional support staff that is going to have to read each one whenever it gets reported?

Trise.2865:

I’m neither for nor against this idea in concept, but could you please elaborate on why exactly this is a good thing to include in-game as opposed to, say, personal blogs, websites, and/or youtube channels, which fulfill exactly the same purpose (minus the “sell on TP” function) and are just as easy to create and share?

In game sources are much more inline with playing the game then having to alt tab to go look up said blog, fan site, etc. With a minority of players visiting the official forums there are even less that look at fan made sites.

It does have some uses, even outside of the RP element. However if the effort to make it is worth it, is debatable. I still don’t see moderation as an issue, since Anet really isn’t liable for player made content anyways, hence the “Online Experience Not Rated” that goes into all MMOs.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Now imagine a player selling stories on the Trading Post…

Did you read the original post? I said nothing about trading them. The idea is that they are only readable in personal environments.

JDubsH.5740:

Concept: Purchase (or find) a blank book for 1g.

This controls the amount of books in the world as well as limit its effect on TP spam and filtering.

Did you?

No, just really open for abuse from abusive players.

Imagine receiving a book in the mail with negative and abusive comments from random strangers? Random strangers as they swapped to an alt trash account before commenting as they knew that account would probably be banned.

Don’t believe someone would throw away an account? Look up GW Dhuum ban on YouTube. Those accounts were thrown away just to enable minion rezzing by others.

If someone could write comments in a book then send to another abuse and trolling would catapult to a new level and I really don’t want to see that here.

Spirited Was Eceni.3869:

No, just really open for abuse from abusive players.

Imagine receiving a book in the mail with negative and abusive comments from random strangers? Random strangers as they swapped to an alt trash account before commenting as they knew that account would probably be banned.

Don’t believe someone would throw away an account? Look up GW Dhuum ban on YouTube. Those accounts were thrown away just to enable minion rezzing by others.

If someone could write comments in a book then send to another abuse and trolling would catapult to a new level and I really don’t want to see that here.

Bullseye.

Spirited Was Eceni.3869:

No, just really open for abuse from abusive players.

Imagine receiving a book in the mail with negative and abusive comments from random strangers? Random strangers as they swapped to an alt trash account before commenting as they knew that account would probably be banned.

Don’t believe someone would throw away an account? Look up GW Dhuum ban on YouTube. Those accounts were thrown away just to enable minion rezzing by others.

If someone could write comments in a book then send to another abuse and trolling would catapult to a new level and I really don’t want to see that here.

First off, that’s no different then receiving something rude in the mail. Second, that wouldn’t be a thing since it would be a soul bound item that could only be viewed by the writer or by being placed in a guild library by consent of the Guild Leader. Does this not sound fool proof?

Spirited Was Eceni.3869:

No, just really open for abuse from abusive players.

Imagine receiving a book in the mail with negative and abusive comments from random strangers? Random strangers as they swapped to an alt trash account before commenting as they knew that account would probably be banned.

Don’t believe someone would throw away an account? Look up GW Dhuum ban on YouTube. Those accounts were thrown away just to enable minion rezzing by others.

If someone could write comments in a book then send to another abuse and trolling would catapult to a new level and I really don’t want to see that here.

This is a problem I have with people on forums that post in suggestion threads. They post about easily solvable problems as if they are insurmountable and don’t even attempt to actually solve the issues with critical thinking.

I mean, yeah, the idea isn’t yours to ‘fix’ but the OP puts out a suggestion and you consider problems with it and THEN apply additional limits or alterations that then circumvent the issues or mitigate them.

This process is called brainstorming. Now if you have no suggestion on how to solve the issues you bring up, that’s okay. But don’t ignore the posts of other creative thinkers that will come behind you and suggest a hotfix to what you’re saying. In the end, the whole purpose is to make a more solid idea.

If you simply don’t like the idea then just say so. Trying to poke holes in the idea because you don’t like it only works if those holes are substantial.

Leo G.4501:

Spirited Was Eceni.3869:

No, just really open for abuse from abusive players.

Imagine receiving a book in the mail with negative and abusive comments from random strangers? Random strangers as they swapped to an alt trash account before commenting as they knew that account would probably be banned.

Don’t believe someone would throw away an account? Look up GW Dhuum ban on YouTube. Those accounts were thrown away just to enable minion rezzing by others.

If someone could write comments in a book then send to another abuse and trolling would catapult to a new level and I really don’t want to see that here.

This is a problem I have with people on forums that post in suggestion threads. They post about easily solvable problems as if they are insurmountable and don’t even attempt to actually solve the issues with critical thinking.

I mean, yeah, the idea isn’t yours to ‘fix’ but the OP puts out a suggestion and you consider problems with it and THEN apply additional limits or alterations that then circumvent the issues or mitigate them.

This process is called brainstorming. Now if you have no suggestion on how to solve the issues you bring up, that’s okay. But don’t ignore the posts of other creative thinkers that will come behind you and suggest a hotfix to what you’re saying. In the end, the whole purpose is to make a more solid idea.

If you simply don’t like the idea then just say so. Trying to poke holes in the idea because you don’t like it only works if those holes are substantial.

Seriously. This is why we can’t have nice things.

I held off from posting in this thread because I don’t like the idea. I don’t think it would be something used by many and feel it would be a waste of development resources. It has nothing to do with, “This is why we can’t have nice things.” It has to do with the amount of work that would go into it to produce an item that would not be used by the masses in my opinion.

The item, as proposed in the revised OP brings little to over all game play. Yes, it might be nice for a few people that like writing things, but overall GW2 players want more game play changes. Every minute dedicated to developing such an item would most likely take away from developing more game updates that would appeal to the majority of the player base. I’m sure I’ll take heat from the few in this thread that support it, but I don’t care.

Look at the Community Creations forum and the fiction posted there. For the most part, no one seems to care. Using development resources to add the same thing in game seems like a waste of resources to me. Sorry but I’d rather see the developers spend more time on things that will appeal to the bulk of the player base. Flame, on.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Every minute dedicated to developing such an item would most likely take away from developing more game updates that would appeal to the majority of the player base.

I’m cool with you not liking the idea, but can Anet really not handle developing what is essentially a guild notebook on top of future updates?

Hm. I think this idea is interesting, but it comes with it’s fair share of potential issues as well, as some others have mentioned.

As a possible alternative that still plays on this idea though, I think it would be cool if ANet perhaps used some of the community creations – such as art or stories created by users – in the game where appropriate. They should have a section on the site where people can upload their creations and then from there, ANet can choose what is appropriate for inclusion in the game.

Your artwork could appear on the wall of some structure, or your story could appear on a bookshelf somewhere, or perhaps even told by an NPC as a legend being passed on.

Either way, I do believe that this kind of material needs to be moderated. Not just for the possible obscenities though, but also to ensure that any additions to the game itself are inclined to add to the lore and immersion of the game, rather than breaking it.

Spirited Was Eceni.3869:

No, just really open for abuse from abusive players.

Imagine receiving a book in the mail with negative and abusive comments from random strangers? Random strangers as they swapped to an alt trash account before commenting as they knew that account would probably be banned.

And this is different from writing the abuse in the mail or in whispers… how exactly?

It would be on a mass scale for anybody to share. Also, mail limits the amount of characters used and the amount of mail sent out is also tapered. This probably wouldn’t be. Finally, you can block and report said whispers. Blocking and reporting ‘books’ is something else.

Again, if you want a ‘guild notebook’, just create a page or forum for it on your guild website. No need to get bent out of shape when you can do such a thing yourself and for your guild members should they desire to read about your misadventures.

As I said before, seen it done on many RPG sites outside the game. Don’t know why this one requires it to be in-game. And, not to be harsh, I think more than a few of you are overestimating the interest in yourselves/characters.

We can barely get players to read flavored quest text. So I’m doubtful players will pay gold to read about someone else’s . . . musings.

But maybe that’s just me.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

It would be on a mass scale for anybody to share. Also, mail limits the amount of characters used and the amount of mail sent out is also tapered. This probably wouldn’t be. Finally, you can block and report said whispers. Blocking and reporting ‘books’ is something else.

Well first off, why do you think there can’t be character limits for this idea? Most likely there would be. And why wouldn’t there be a limit on how people have access to these books?

See? You’re stating a problem and then figuring “This idea will probably have this problem, unlike mail” when you should be saying “This idea will probably have this problem so it should have these limits like mail”.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Again, if you want a ‘guild notebook’, just create a page or forum for it on your guild website. No need to get bent out of shape when you can do such a thing yourself and for your guild members should they desire to read about your misadventures.

You’re kind of not thinking about the non-guildie players (such as myself) who are super casual in guild and tend to create on my own for fun. Or the people that enjoy telling stories but most of their company around them don’t have the same sort of fun. Or the people who want to express themselves in hopes of discovering more players who like to have the same type of fun as them by showing what you’re made of.

I’m honestly rather flabergasted how adamant some people can be for an idea that is practically 100% harmless to them. City of Heroes had a system where you could create a backstory viewable by other passer-bys and I severely doubt that is why the game went under (and it was widely used by many players for various purposes too!). CoH also had a system to build instanced content so you can show a story as well and enjoyed that aspect of the game as well. Were there issues and problems and moderation that had to be done? Yes! That doesn’t make the idea bad unless the goal is to give the devs as little work as humanly possible, in which case they should probably stop developing new content as well and just leave the game be.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

As I said before, seen it done on many RPG sites outside the game. Don’t know why this one requires it to be in-game. And, not to be harsh, I think more than a few of you are overestimating the interest in yourselves/characters.

And some games have both. But no one is suggesting this idea is a requirement, just a cool addition. You’ve just decided to take an adverse stance to the suggestion for some reason. Perhaps it’s because you’re arguments are so easily countered (I mean, I’m trying my hardest not to write so many words to thoroughly bury the arguments you put forth) that you took the stance? You really only need to put forth your opinion that you think it’s a pointless addition and think it’d waste resources. That’s fine, because it does and it is. But a pointless suggestion doesn’t need the opposition you’re putting up, huh? And it’d be unknown how many resources would go into the suggestion.

And I’m not overstating my interest. Go look up City of Heroes. I had a background for every one of my characters eventually. I have backstories for every one of my current GW2 characters. I wouldn’t mind someone, who’s chatting with me in the game, to peek and ask me questions about my characters. It sparks conversation and possibly inspiration.

JustTrogdor.7892:

I held off from posting in this thread because I don’t like the idea. I don’t think it would be something used by many and feel it would be a waste of development resources. It has nothing to do with, “This is why we can’t have nice things.” It has to do with the amount of work that would go into it to produce an item that would not be used by the masses in my opinion.

The item, as proposed in the revised OP brings little to over all game play. Yes, it might be nice for a few people that like writing things, but overall GW2 players want more game play changes. Every minute dedicated to developing such an item would most likely take away from developing more game updates that would appeal to the majority of the player base. I’m sure I’ll take heat from the few in this thread that support it, but I don’t care.

Right, I see some of these as potential problems as well which is why I also tried suggesting other applications for an in-game journal that would expand the usability of the idea. Things such as text-code build links similar to the command that allows for gear to be linkable, the idea would not only allow you to share your build with others but also save multiple builds so that you can more quickly swap your traits and utilities.

Also, a kind of digital bookshelf so you can save read books (essentially a link) you’ve read in game so that you can reread them at your leisure or reference them quickly would be something useful for those interested in the game’s story and background lore as well as possibly others’ written stories.

Neither of these applications apply to fanfic writers or RPers.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Look at the Community Creations forum and the fiction posted there. For the most part, no one seems to care. Using development resources to add the same thing in game seems like a waste of resources to me. Sorry but I’d rather see the developers spend more time on things that will appeal to the bulk of the player base. Flame, on.

I’m not going to lie, but I never check for things like that. It’s just overall factors such as desirability and access tend to limit when I’ll see those things. Do you know when I do want to see cool and creative things about GW2? When I’m playing GW2. When I’m not playing GW2, I’m usually busy with other things to go searching for that stuff. If someone links me to something interesting, I might take a look but I’m far more likely in the mood to absorb some GW2 stuff when I log into GW2. And if I find something that hypes me up to search for stuff when I log off is a whole other bucket of fish.

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but what about a rating system for the books where before you put it up on the TP, you rate the contents so others know what they are buying?

I’m finding it telling that my ‘pointless’ opinion, and sparse sentences, generates paragraph after paragraph of argument from you, Leo. Perhaps it’s you who is emotional. Regardless, I’ve said my piece, offered alternatives, and will leave it at that.

The answer is still no.

Meh, fair enough actually Ardenwolfe, probably much more hassle than it’s worth.

Still, shame. I like these details. I used the WoW expansion which allowed for character backgrounds and custom books, too, and I loved the background-story in EQ1. You’re right, sure, but it’s a shame that we’re in a situation where a dev wouldn’t implement this because it’ll be abused.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I’m finding it telling that my ‘pointless’ opinion, and sparse sentences, generates paragraph after paragraph of argument from you, Leo. Perhaps it’s you who is emotional. Regardless, I’ve said my piece, offered alternatives, and will leave it at that.

The answer is still no.

“No” doesn’t sound like much of an alternative. No matter what this turns in to, it doesn’t hurt to pitch community ideas and try to revive collaboration in the game. Having a new dlc is our best chance of getting new features added, and something as simple as writing stories or having an official in-game rule book for your guild would be an awesome little treat for those who appreciate that stuff. It’s no so much the functionality, but letting the players have a bit more personal freedom with our guilds and our experience. I’ll take having to sift through my guild library deleting Rytlock and Logan smut if it means I can share stories and express my sense of creativity in-game.