Guild Wars 2

Talyn.3295:

It’s Not a tool of Elitism, it is a tool to prevent trolling of groups

Though the scope is very different, this is similar to how governments suggest saving everyone’s internet traffic as a measure of finding potential terrorists.

The screwed part about this is that you’re effectively making everyone a suspect in the hopes of finding a few where that suspicion was justified.

A gear check would be similar. You’re assuming the world is out to troll you. Instead of adding measures to do something about the people actually trolling, you’re adding a blanket measure which has serious downsides, in the hopes of actually catching a few where you could justify the change.
It’s… not something I like, as a citizen. Sorry.

A better measure would be to add a secondary category for reports, and have “Trolling” as one subcategory of Harassment. By itself that might not actually do much but store a snippet of log (bonus points if I can select t he one to send in). Should that person get multiple reports for various things, an admin could see those logs send in, add them to the slate, and decide upon an action.
Much better a tool as it specifically adds measures to penalize those trolling your parties than just flat out forcing everyone to go through screening at the airport, so to say. :P

But then I won’t have the ability to join groups as my full-nomad’s healing guardian that does 1/12th of the DPS of a decent guardian, and provides no useful support for my team. like a decent guardian would provide.

It’s perfectly fair if I join groups where I am clearly not wanted because I will waste their time by my presence, but it’s not fair if they want to exclude me because I’m wasting their time. Those zerker elitists should be forced to play with me; after all, I don’t actually want to play with other people like me, because then we spend 1 hour on CM p3. That’s why I try and leech off of better groups.

When I do feel like an hour long CM p3, however, none of those filthy zerker elitists should join my group, because they’re toxic and awful and want to complete things too quickly. Everyone should accept me and do whatever I want, merely because I exist and am more important than they are.

Did I do justice to your reasoning as to why you don’t want a feature that allows us “zerker elitists” to find like-minded players (in terms of valuing efficiency and time) to play with more easily, while excluding players who are intentionally wasting our time for their own benefit?

Its not forcing everyone to go through screening at the airport its providing direction signs so that those trying to catch a flight to Hawaii get to the right line while those trying to catch a flight to Paris do the same.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

naiasonod.9265:

Odd. I’m utterly against this and yet, I seem to have four full sets of ascended gear, go on regular runs with a guild nutty with scores of people running everything there is to run in the game without needing to be carried and…amazingly…not wanting to be either.

Nevets Crinsonwing, your assertion must either be far more selective in its application than your absolute terming suggests, or you’re simply…wrong.

I’ma go with ‘wrong’. Good day.

If you primarily play with a guild group, why are you opposing a useful feature that is intended for enhancing PUG gameplay?

Perhaps instead of just telling people they are wrong, and being rude, you actually articulate the reasoning behind your opposition. As things are currently, you just seem to be spouting off at people “nope” “wrong” without any elaboration.

There is a definite desire for an inspect gear feature by at least half of the playerbase.
and yet… the other half is opposed.

Neither side of the argument can be wrong for having wants/desires.

…and if a feature is not immediately useful to you….. and you say you won’t have problems since you have appropriate gear…. what is the problem here?

You’ve clearly not read my posts. Understandable. I’ll summarize and offer some small correction where you’re in err – I’ve been quite vocal about why I’m opposed to it. I cite its existence in numerous other games and the painfully easy-to-find abuses people perpetrate on eachother with inspect tools as the vector enabling them to get nasty and judgmental at eachother over gear.

Whether anyone chooses to believe that assertion I make or not does nothing to prevent it from being very observable by anyone that would like to check it out for themselves.

I have no personal need to PUG, but ya know, I do PUG plenty often. Truth be told, I kinda enjoy it – its always such a toss-up as to who I’ll meet. Most of the time its rubbish and forgettable, but every so often, I find a team I can actually help out with my own knowledge of clearing dungeon paths.

I met three players that are now on the very short list of people I call friends doing exactly that one night. I joined a pug AC and found that they were trying to do AC p1 naked. Why? Because they were all half-drunk and had no reason not to.

We didn’t win. It was hilarious and Skype info was traded. Flash forward a year and a half and here we are, running Drunk Slobbering Idiot roams out in WvW every so often.

PUG’ing isn’t the problem – jerks are the problem. What the ersatz elitists want is a means by which to get the groups they want. There’s nothing wrong with that, but inspect tools aren’t the way that’s going to happen.

Inspect tools as a solution to that problem are tantamount to using a shotgun as a flyswatter – yes, you might well kill the fly, but whether you do or don’t will be irrelevant to the problem you’re absolutely going to create for trying to solve it that way.

If they were asking for tools in the LFG that allowed them to set something like a minimum on some assortment of stats, and their listing doesn’t show up for anyone without the stat arrays they’ve listed? That’d be totally workable. That wouldn’t be handing a loaded gun to an MMO population prone to setting its own draperies on fire and wondering why everythings burnt to hell and back five minutes later.

I’m wondering if this “Gear Check” will solve any of your problems.

As I can see the following coming from this:
Players without the meta build / gear will be rejected from the Speed Runners group.
So our player will do his mostest best to get all the gear the “Current Meta” is telling him to grab.

Our so proud player with full meta now joins a group of Speed Runners and is showing off all his fancy gear

Though, halfway or even earlier into the dungeon he’s failing epicly. As he’s not used to having this meta build, and there was little to no practice because our player doesn’t have a guild or friends to teach him.

Now we can counter this aswell, by adding some “review” system to the table, to review players on their qualities. but that’s a little over the top.

In short:
You’ll find players with the right gear / traits, but that doesn’t tell a single bit about SKILL.

Practice makes perfect, but I can already see players with “Full Meta” getting kicked as they die on accident / unexperienced at certain bosses. Just to be replaced by another “Full Meta”

naiasonod.9265:

Inspect tools as a solution to that problem are tantamount to using a shotgun as a flyswatter – yes, you might well kill the fly, but whether you do or don’t will be irrelevant to the problem you’re absolutely going to create for trying to solve it that way.

What is this problem that will be created?

I don’t see a problem arising from allowing players to choose what types of players they have in their parties.

Jade Arkadian.9280:

I don’t like the idea at all. It’s just a tool for PuG elitism.
There are already some dummys that request 5k AP in the LFG, wrongly believing that thats a way to know if you are good enough for their l33t party which will pretty much disband as soon there is a wipe because it’s a waste of time. (IMO, it’s sad the fact that some players can’t have fun without cheesing the instance)

If you really need that kind of tools because you can’t trust PuGs, then you should run dungeons only with guildies, with friends or solo.

Above that, there are better things to code and develop that making something only aimed to a very specific and small type of players.

Why should the lfg tool be solely for phiw’s?

What your’e saying is those who want to enjoy smooth runs have to guild up.
ok. all phiw must go guild up and never use the lfg tool. lfg tool is for zerkers only.

- pretty kitten selfish ey?

The OP’s suggestion would allow ALL phiws (yeah, meta players are playing how they want too) to find like-minded people.

The lfg tool is pretty much the best way to find others who want to do dungeons. It makes sense this tool should work for those who want to do them efficiently.

LFG filtering is purely a quality of life fix that would remove the frustrations of people who wish to play completely differently from having to argue/kick/rage/forum QQ.

Simple “view gear” with lfg filtered on weather or not a player chooses to make their gear visible would make it easier for sure.

alternative could be build templates, including gear and allowing those to be previewed via chat link. - Aiming at 2 birds with one stone here…

Ultimately though, I’d rather lfg filtering. The good players don’t need to gear check, they can tell within a fight or two that you’re running wrong gear/traits/skill rotations.
Just save the hassle of people joining unsuitable groups and getting kicked. It just causes more hassle for everyone.

In continuation of my last post, consider exactly what the ersatz elitists (I hate that term, but since we’re on the kitten topic I need a point of common reference) actually want.

I myself would get a lot of use to the exact purposes everyone asking for inspect tools seems to be wanting if I could set parameters for my own dungeon listings. When I want to do a zerk run, if I could enter a Power requirement of 2100+, precision of 1400+ and ferocity of maybe 800+, and my listing would only show up for those browsing the list with the stats at or higher than what I threw in my listing as filters?

Bam, problem solved insofar as it ever really could be.

But then there are some that seem to also hope that inspect tools would solve other problems that cannot and will never be solved by such technologies.

Inspect tools aren’t going to stop a dork from gear-swapping mid-run, but an auto-kick feature dropped on anyone violating the stat requirements the host sets might curb it mightily.

Inspect tools will never stop a determined troll from finding a way to troll a pug run. It will never and can never do a single cotton-pickin’ thing about people being ignorant or just plain malicious.

Those realities will persist unchanged in any meaningful way by the existence or continued non-existence of inspect tools, and they’re the real problem here.

So, as I see it, inspect tools won’t do a thing to help those that aren’t being plagued by other problems anyway. Trolls? Inspect won’t stop them. Idgits that won’t listen to simple strats or take five minutes to figure out how to prepare themselves and their builds for a dungeon run? Good luck solving that with an inspect tool.

Good luck solving that with anything other than a gallon of gas and a blowtorch.

Inspect tools might help a few, yes. But that is a maybe in contrast to what they will invite across the entire game’s population in terms of the divisive trolling and vicious judgmentalisms such tools do nothing but enable.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

alternative could be build templates, including gear and allowing those to be previewed via chat link. - Aiming at 2 birds with one stone here…

That’s a great idea too. Nothing pops out about it that could be used to troll and harass others. I’d vote for it.

Meh. Whether or not it encourages elitism (which it would), a tool like this would definitely encourage animosity and toxicity between players. Giving some minor convenience to “pro” dungeon-runners is not a sufficient reason to introduce it.

I look at this thread and my instant reaction was hell no – but the fact that it is optional is nice.
There is one big flaw though. It will always cause elitism.
Even if you join a group that doesn’t demand, say, full zerker, a group will almost always want to check gear if it is that easy to do so. This could actually mean that gear checks become common practice outside of the elite running groups – because if you have decent gear why not? This will segregate the community i believe.

Why do I get the feeling that the naysayers still have not even bothered to read and respond to what the OP actually said?

Do you guys even realize what the OP is suggesting?

The lfg posts of players wanting to gear check will not even be visible to those players that are not willing to succumb to gear checks. Which means anyone who wants to play with any gear can still do say and their game will not even change or look any different than before. After the proposed change, ONLY those players wishing to troll will be kicked from groups.

Seriously people, READ the OP before going on long nonsensical rant posts with the word elitism sprinkled in every 15 words that don’t even address what the OP suggested.

Ironically, this is exactly why some people want this tool added to the game because people simply cannot or will not read or respect what other players requests are.

Since it is not in game it is not a problem.
Just reading the over the top posts gives a very good clue that with it in game there will be lots more over the top crap to deal with.
Better off not in game.

This is an awesome idea!

Please also add a profession check – if I ask for an Ele :they can view it but cannot join unless they hop on there ele.
So many groups I have had to kick people who have come on the wrong profession (PHIW- Please help I’m worthless and cannot read the LFG description so carry me now I just want the shineys).

Having to relist so many times means that the LFG tool bugs out and in the end we complete content 3 or 4 man as its easier than carrying someone who won’t listen or is badly setup.

TPMN.1483:

So many groups I have had to kick people who have come on the wrong profession (PHIW- Please help I’m worthless and cannot read the LFG description so carry me now I just want the shineys).

content 3 or 4 man as its easier

The funny thing is, we’ve had this and gone – hang on, this is no slower than with a pug in the 4th or 5th spot? Do they even do any damage?

But with full guild team where we know everyone is geared? much faster.

This is what we get for not gear checking these pugs. Maybe we should start gear checking more..

edit: Yeah when we advertise for pugs.. all we want is more dps. We cover all the active defences already. So runs are smooth with 3 or 4. Just want to speed things up.

Talyn.3295:

3) When a Looking For Group post is made box is added to require this gear check box to be clicked in order to see the LFG post. If the player has not opted in they can not see it.

This right here is what makes this a quality suggestion. No whining, no one is forced gear check or gtfo. If it’s important to you it’s on, and no one who doesn’t want to opt in will ever bother you again and therefore you can’t bother them either. I have no interest in being judged for my build, or being told I can’t participate because I don’t follow their impression of what I should be. I 100% support this proposal.

I will be frank: Zeker Elitist is a derogative term and generally means somebody who thinks his zerk gear entitles him to feel better then any other player

Having said it I want to stress my zerk gard, warrior, thief,ele, ranger and necro with meta builds have seen all.
ALL: from the nice 200 AP AC2 vet to the “I drop each time some circle appears zerk wannabe”. The ‘we are going to do all condi builds’ run, all 5 {enter proffesion here] runs
The 15k AP well this is my first [fill in path here], The "I only have 19% map "dungeoneer.
I’ve been impressed by people, I’ve wondered about people. I have admired people, I lolled at people and kicked people. And I love the people. I also did speedruns. I still do’m but the fun is starting to dissappear and a mandatory you need to this else you suck anyways ghost is manifesting

I have had nice runs with 70k AP combined and I have had speed runs where we had 20k combined, me contributing 16k. I did AC full in 45 minutes a few days ago in an epic run (with coffee break ), finished CoF 1&2 in just over 15 minutes 2 hours later.

I respect LFG and I expect others to do so as well. I still get l80 speed AC runs who insist stacking the spider, which tends to fail way too often, mostly when my sandstorm gets interupted, cause nobody knows to use any skills except mashing 2 for HB

Skill makes speedruns, and the comprehension of the game. Not a LFG build viewer.
90% of all speedruns are plain figments of imagination
I have 2-5 decent AC full runs a week 1-4 good one and 1-2 with idiots:
The bad runs tend to be fridays, saturdays and sundays, the good ones tend to be weekdays in the morning.. Differences lie mainly in the leisure factor, during weekdays I get food users, might stacking, efficient use of buffs and cnditions. In the weekends I see we need perfect dps chains an we will be victorious, food costs money, I have Ascended anyways comments.

I do not ask for zerk I type Exp, I ask you can think your own chain, help buffing and do the best you can squirting dps and group support out of your build, I expect the use of food, which seems normal with weekday users and completely unknown by the other group. People sometimes ask me: why do I die and you do not?, my answer normally is because +10% damage given is nice, but -10% received is very op. And people who know know this can bend everything their way…

So in the end Eveybody likes to play how they want, some people want their parties.
I am past it: I am 1.33 player and with a good group functioning like 7 combined.

And you might find me with a lfg 80 Exp, if you are like me we can be closer to 7 combined.

I’m against this feature for 3 reasons:
1: It is an extra step an inexperienced player has to take: A player who looks at his lfg tool group without knowing about this feature will think that there are no groups and will feel that the content is dead but it isn’t since the groups are hidden by this feature.

2: It makes the play how you want groups far more vulnerable: A player who has this feature activated will enter a a play how you want group, the other players will check his gear and see that he has gear that don’t satisfy their personal desires and they will kick the player faster then the group creator can respond to the kick motion. (before you say this doesn’t happen I had such an occasion with a low lvl who joined my group)

3. I don’t see how this is superior to ping’ing your gear, you could say that he could ping the wrong gear, but it is also reasonably to asssume that you’re not going to check it before every battle, so the troll can switch out somewhere in the dungeon.

Tim.6450:

2: It makes the play how you want groups far more vulnerable: A player who has this feature activated will enter a a play how you want group, the other players will check his gear and see that he has gear that don’t satisfy their personal desires and they will kick the player faster then the group creator can respond to the kick motion. (before you say this doesn’t happen I had such an occasion with a low lvl who joined my group)

So what your saying is, joining a phiw group, I could be kicked for any reason or even no reason.

As opposed to the tangible – not a good build/gear?
Which could still happen anyway.

Thats nice to know.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

So what your saying is, joining a phiw group, I could be kicked for any reason or even no reason.

As opposed to the tangible – not a good build/gear?
Which could still happen anyway.

Thats nice to know.

No it makes it easier to find a reason, you can’t kick every lvl 80 character without hurting yourself, you can kick a lvl 80 character in nomad gear. It’s not about that it can’t happen, it’s just that by adding this feature you could make it’s occurence much higher.

Pax, when you say you finished CoF 1&2 in 15 minutes, do you mean per path, or combined? Just curious. If you mean combined, what team composition did you have for each path?

Tim.6450:

I’m against this feature for 3 reasons:
1: It is an extra step an inexperienced player has to take: A player who looks at his lfg tool group without knowing about this feature will think that there are no groups and will feel that the content is dead but it isn’t since the groups are hidden by this feature.

There will still be groups. They just won’t be the elitist groups. Eventually, based on the new level up system there would be a plurb explaining the check box. Then if he wants to experience the aspect of the game he can.

2: It makes the play how you want groups far more vulnerable: A player who has this feature activated will enter a a play how you want group, the other players will check his gear and see that he has gear that don’t satisfy their personal desires and they will kick the player faster then the group creator can respond to the kick motion. (before you say this doesn’t happen I had such an occasion with a low lvl who joined my group)

So? That’s how it goes, that’s why this is the elitist option. If this is a problem for you do not check that box. It’s also far better to be kicked immediately like that than to get half way through the dungeon before the group decides you’re not living up to their expectations and kicks you anyway.

3. I don’t see how this is superior to ping’ing your gear, you could say that he could ping the wrong gear, but it is also reasonably to asssume that you’re not going to check it before every battle, so the troll can switch out somewhere in the dungeon.

This is superior in every way. It allows the groups that care about such things to “ping” your gear themselves at any time, so if you’re trying to trick them you’ll get caught. It allows those who don’t want to experience that aspect of the game to NEVER experience it.

On a side note, it will finally allow people a way of identifying pieces of gear that look interesting to them without having to pester the player and hope they’ll respond at all.

Tim.6450:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

So what your saying is, joining a phiw group, I could be kicked for any reason or even no reason.

As opposed to the tangible – not a good build/gear?
Which could still happen anyway.

Thats nice to know.

No it makes it easier to find a reason, you can’t kick every lvl 80 character without hurting yourself, you can kick a lvl 80 character in nomad gear. It’s not about that it can’t happen, it’s just that by adding this feature you could make it’s occurence much higher.

So.. Other people can’t play how they want?
They can’t have the team mates that they enjoy running with?

But you can have what you want?
I think your crown is squashing your brain sire.

This thread is a living definition of ochlocracy.

Tim.6450:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

So what your saying is, joining a phiw group, I could be kicked for any reason or even no reason.

As opposed to the tangible – not a good build/gear?
Which could still happen anyway.

Thats nice to know.

No it makes it easier to find a reason, you can’t kick every lvl 80 character without hurting yourself, you can kick a lvl 80 character in nomad gear. It’s not about that it can’t happen, it’s just that by adding this feature you could make it’s occurence much higher.

It’s rather simple. By adding that feature nobody will get kicked anymore… because those who are getting kicked because they don’t read the LFG and join the wrong groups, won’t join them anymore….

No matter what good intentions people may have for gear check it will only devolve into a way to exclude people because others don’t play the way someone wants them to.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

This thread is a living definition of ochlocracy.

No, it’s just an argument primarily between people who are ignorant of the actual specifics of the argument. None of these people have any actual control of the outcome, though, therefore they don’t rule anything. They’re just jabbering.

There are really only a handful of reasonable people in this thread who actually bothered to read the entire proposal, without blinders, and to then work out the benefits or otherwise themselves. They’re the posts that matter, and if ANet is watching, hopefully they’re ignoring the knee jerkers who don’t even understand how this proposal would still satisfy their sensibilities.

Malkavian.4516:

While I do like the idea, I can picture that a majority of dungeon lfgs would practically add in the “gear check” option to their advertisements. This is just a potential risk to consider.

For certain dungeons (like Arah) it won’t be any different than all the dungeon sellers. Just like when you see the “Selling Arah P2” and you KNOW what you will expect, with this feature you will also know what to expect when you join.

I don’t see that many people joining Selling runs thinking they are regular runs.

Mysticjedi.6053:

No matter what good intentions people may have for gear check it will only devolve into a way to exclude people because others don’t play the way someone wants them to.

Which is irrelevant because those people will do that anyway. This does not improve their ability to be elite, this allows them to exclude themselves from those who don’t want to interact with them in the first place. They’re not excluding PHIW people, because PHIW people won’t even see them to be excluded. Everyone is happier as a result.

Mysticjedi.6053:

No matter what good intentions people may have for gear check it will only devolve into a way to exclude people because others don’t play the way someone wants them to.

Please re-read the OP and the exact suggestion.

Here the important part:

The Idea:
1) Add a box to the Hero Equipment panel screen. When this box is checked Players can right click and see your gear/runes/traits/etc. There for no action is taken by players who do not want to have their gear inspected. This can be toggled on and off from this screen.
2) If a player doesn’t click this box they can not be inspected.
3) When a Looking For Group post is made box is added to require this gear check box to be clicked in order to see the LFG post. If the player has not opted in they can not see it.

How is this going to devolve into a way to exclude people?

The only people that will be hurt by this are trolls who either ping fake gear, or just join groups without reading the requirements. How is anyone else going to be affected by this?

maddoctor.2738:

Malkavian.4516:

While I do like the idea, I can picture that a majority of dungeon lfgs would practically add in the “gear check” option to their advertisements. This is just a potential risk to consider.

For certain dungeons (like Arah) it won’t be any different than all the dungeon sellers. Just like when you see the “Selling Arah P2” and you KNOW what you will expect, with this feature you will also know what to expect when you join.

I don’t see that many people joining Selling runs thinking they are regular runs.

Except, if they have gear check option checked, which is part of this proposal, and you don’t have it checked, you don’t see that post in the first place. Therefore, none of this is relevant.

3) When a Looking For Group post is made box is added to require this gear check box to be clicked in order to see the LFG post. If the player has not opted in they can not see it.

I’m posting this again in bold in the hopes people will actually read it and understand it. This is the most important part of the whole OP. And the part that seems to be missed by most of the decenters.

The only ones who are excluded, are those excluding themselves.
People keep saying the “zerker elitists” are a minority.
Thats fine. That doesn’t mean we have to be forced to play with phiw’s.
But so few read the lfg descriptions, in effect forcing themselves upon a group not suitable, resulting in : unhappy run, or kick.

Adding a (or several) means to filter the lfg is needed to limit the listings that can be joined. The OP’s suggestion was one possible idea.
If you are truly against it, then suggest a better way to improve the lfg. Asking people to read isn’t working. People are still too kitten lazy to read.

Guardian of Angels.9867:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Anyone who says no to this on the grounds that it would breed “elitism” is a tool who feels entitled to be carried by his or her superiors. That’s all there really is to it.

You sir, fit perfectly in your own insult.

So to be against this, players have to be leechers who can’t run a dungeon themselves?
lololol, if you’re against this you are an “insert insult”

Great opinion

You didn’t read what I wrote.

Mysticjedi.6053:

No matter what good intentions people may have for gear check it will only devolve into a way to exclude people because others don’t play the way someone wants them to.

And you feel people are entitled to be included?

Kal Spiro.9745:

There will still be groups. They just won’t be the elitist groups.

It’s not that there are always groups avaidable. Also just because they have the gearcheck means that they are elitist. A simple example would a no nomad group. It just cuts the extreme cornercases while still being completely accessible for beginning players.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Eventually, based on the new level up system there would be a plurb explaining the check box. Then if he wants to experience the aspect of the game he can.

If they remember this feature since it could be 50 levels later.

So? That’s how it goes, that’s why this is the elitist option. If this is a problem for you do not check that box. It’s also far better to be kicked immediately like that than to get half way through the dungeon before the group decides you’re not living up to their expectations and kicks you anyway.

That’s not a feature that’s a choir. Let’s assume a player who wants to play a less effective setup because he enjoys it, but has limited time for the content. He has an optimal setup but doesn’t like. He has to constantly shift this check box just to make sure that he won’t get kicked.

Kal Spiro.9745:

This is superior in every way. It allows the groups that care about such things to “ping” your gear themselves at any time, so if you’re trying to trick them you’ll get caught. It allows those who don’t want to experience that aspect of the game to NEVER experience it.

jay now you enhanced your smooth playing experience by doing constant checks and what with armor break cases?

On a side note, it will finally allow people a way of identifying pieces of gear that look interesting to them without having to pester the player and hope they’ll respond at all.

Different feature, different discussion (just a side effect that can be recreated without this feature)

Artemis Thuras.8795:

So.. Other people can’t play how they want?
They can’t have the team mates that they enjoy running with?

But you can have what you want?
I think your crown is squashing your brain sire.

I did not forbid anybody from playing full zerker or finding likewise team mates. By adding this feature you help a lot of players who want to check their requirements. On the other hand you make it easier for finding a reason to kick which will happen, diminishing the chances for players finding their teammates because they play an unpopular setup.

It’s giving something to one group while taking it from another group. So yeah please forgive me for saying that that playerbase will lose something.

On the other hand you make it easier for finding a reason to kick which will happen,

But the reason is already there, the tool just makes it easier to identify and quicker to deal with. How is that bad? If someone is set on only wanting people of a specific type in their group, having a tool that helps them achieve that is only a positive since it filters out undesirables from their group.

diminishing the chances for players finding their teammates because they play an unpopular setup.

No, what actually happens is that people asking for a certain type of gear don’t get trolled by non-(gear stat combo) people joining their group, and the people who don’t care about requirements can carry on forming groups no problem.

It sounds like people haven’t even read the OP and are just arguing about “gear checking” rather than what the OP actually wrote.

Tim.6450:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

So.. Other people can’t play how they want?
They can’t have the team mates that they enjoy running with?

But you can have what you want?
I think your crown is squashing your brain sire.

It’s giving something to one group while taking it from another group.

Only true if one group is currently receiving something they are not entitled to through deceit.

The only thing this change would bring is an end to group welfare. People don’t like it when their welfare runs out. People don’t like it when others can call them out on their lies.

I remember a couple years back there was a thread just like this one on this topic, only the elitists were screaming their heads off about the evils of Magic Find, and how someone in MF gear would add a terrible horrible minute or two to their speed run.

Magic find is gone now, thanks in part to these very same elitists who now have a new “reason” they should get their way.

Neural.1824:

I remember a couple years back there was a thread just like this one on this topic, only the elitists were screaming their heads off about the evils of Magic Find, and how someone in MF gear would add a terrible horrible minute or two to their speed run.

Magic find is gone now, thanks in part to these very same elitists who now have a new “reason” they should get their way.

What’s your reason for lying in zerk only groups by pinging non-zerk gear and feeling entitled to be carried?

If you say you don’t join such groups, why would you care how others want to play?

Why don’t you want a tool to filter out the zerker elitists you so despise?

Oh, what is it? What’s the problem, cupcakes? Here, climb on my knees and tell uncle Donny what the problem is. /sits and grabs pipe
You scared that they’re gonna see your gear and kick you straight away from a “zerk”, “dps only” or whatever party, while you try to sneak in with a knight armor and runes of the citadel (“But I had zerk trinkets!”)? Afraid that the mean zergburgers might abuse you for joining a non-descript “ac p1” with your dire thief? Worried that you won’t find parties willing to bear with you bumbling around the boss and dying after a coupla minutes of headless rodeo?
Lemme tell you this: most players don’t care if you’re clueless, as long as you’re not a complete idiot; most players don’t gearcheck and don’t demand much from you other than having a vague idea of what you’re supposed to do in the dungeon. You know that, you’re just pulling my leg now.
You’re still gonna find party and nobody prevents you from playing the game, but yeah, the cool kids (they think they are but they’re really not that cool…) are excluding you. They don’t want you. Tough… luck.
Are you self-conscious about your gear? Are you afraid of judgement? Well, this might hint you at the fact that… yes, you’re being carried and you know it. Don’t wanna join parties with 4 n—new players like you that use soldier gear because they need to, huh? But they’d accept you, they’d never ask you to ping gear, how come you don’t wanna join them? It’s slower, amirite? I know it is. I understand. Don’t want to get some decent gear and try to improve as not to be a liability? Want the shinies?
GO GET THEM YOURSELF, with OTHER PHIWs like YOU.
Now off you go, I have to bake some pancakes and you’re crushing my legs.

In any case, I don’t really support the gear check thingy. One reason: arenanet.
I don’t want them to fumble around and make a mess while wasting resources on it – just so the occasional troll can’t switch to another armor while running a path. Casuals would freak out, there would be a massive whining all over the place, Lucifer would rise and break free from his cage (sorry, watching spn!), all that jazz and in the end, baddies would still hide their setup because they’re self-conscious and lazy. I can ping gear to whomever wants to see it, and that will have to do for now. For now.
It’s exactly the same reason why I can’t see a dps meter working: anet making it bad, incomplete and inconsistent so that you can’t get any useful info out of it.
Same for “ping build”, like in gw1.
Sure, if you want it so badly and it comes to a popular vote, I’ll support it – but we all know that…

Tim.6450:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

So.. Other people can’t play how they want?
They can’t have the team mates that they enjoy running with?

But you can have what you want?
I think your crown is squashing your brain sire.

I did not forbid anybody from playing full zerker or finding likewise team mates. By adding this feature you help a lot of players who want to check their requirements. On the other hand you make it easier for finding a reason to kick which will happen, diminishing the chances for players finding their teammates because they play an unpopular setup.

It’s giving something to one group while taking it from another group. So yeah please forgive me for saying that that playerbase will lose something.

If you want to run an unpopular setup, that is fine. go run with other people who want to run unpopular setups.

The OP’s suggestion is an attempt to make it EASIER to find them. If you don’t like it come up with something better.

Oh wait – a lot of the people of this mentality want meta players to carry them through smooth runs regardless.

Edit:
DeSade summed this up brilliantly.

You’re getting kicked if you run with good players with a bad setup regardless.
Good players don’t need to gear check to see your running something bad.
The difference is: You’ll get booted part way, or just before the final boss.

The ops suggestion would help you use the LFG tool to find like minded people. Something that many are unable to do themselves BECUASE THEY REFUSE TO READ THE DESCRIPTIONS

This is the same reason i want class filtering: Description: “LF zerk ele” join on a warrior, expect to be kicked.
This means lfg has to be reposted, and the warrior now feels excluded because they got kicked.

To be quite honest lets remove the lfg tool. it seems only a minority is capable of using it correctly anyway. It’s too confusing for new players.

Suggestions that have come out: “zerker elitists should guild up together” “phiw should guild up together”. Quite a few meta people already do. There was a guy in the last meta QQ thread inviting people to join his phiw dungeon guild.

So why we may as well just remove this lfg tool completely.

Neural.1824:

I remember a couple years back there was a thread just like this one on this topic, only the elitists were screaming their heads off about the evils of Magic Find, and how someone in MF gear would add a terrible horrible minute or two to their speed run.

Magic find is gone now, thanks in part to these very same elitists who now have a new “reason” they should get their way.

Are you kidding?
Now I can have my stats AND my magic find.
That change was good. How could you possibly not have wanted that? eesh.

Zui.9245:

Pax, when you say you finished CoF 1&2 in 15 minutes, do you mean per path, or combined? Just curious. If you mean combined, what team composition did you have for each path?

DPS War, PugCar War, DPS Guard, DPS Guard, DPS Thief, full stacks in purging flames (banners,banners skill 5,SB) before attack, doublemace 4, axe 2 (25 vulnerability) speed boosts with banner, guards: WoR, Purging Flame, stand your ground/other shouts, thief d/d & sb really do not know what builds or traits, and It could have been 16 or 17 min. no fails, full dungeon sets , smothering & night 10% ,flamelegion slaying potion, power/ferocity food., 1st warrior warbanner (perma fury) w1 discipline & w2 strength, no condi remove. One of the guardians ran heal on dodge I remember, I do not remember virtue of resolve proccing on my war. PUGGED, no ts. I had ran with some before. Got the food (else I’d used my plate of truffle steak 100pow/70prec.) We encountered some minor problems in the assassin room, but as time before we tagged enemies @ down, skill1 , while others focussed them
I expect all be running zerk/strength TBH

Why is “elitism” bad? We should all strive to be elite; mediocrity is not a virtue.

I see 1 problem in a checkbox. move to the italic areas if you want to skip my “rant/motivation”"

Behind the checkbox is to be all fast runs with people who will be nagging eachothers head off due to well you should have all zerk, not all zerk a is better, runes strength,no scholar,, sigil of frailty no strength, no dungeon sigils, only ascneded but downscaling and so on…. etc. et.c etc.

If you have an opinion you will not get to play If you do not you’ll notice:
Pure meta is just copycatting, it shows you trust everything someone else calculates for you…

I wonder if things will heat up behind your checkbox if you find zerks, meta, without food, or with exotics, and where you will draw the line?

You can play the way you want. Yes. DO so, Get your checkbox. and if all wannabee’s crawl overthere I’ll be happy, cause I WILL be free to play. How I want to : zerk meta. without wannabees. The idea alone… -giggles-

Even if you can afford all ascended gear, and you did a path 1, 2 maybe 3 times, you are more likely to suck then someone who did a path 800 or 1000 times. There will always be carriers, I know AC front to back and I also make mistakes, and who cares?

Problem started with people who are afraid their world is going to end if they have a person not following -meta-. Well even if everybody is following -meta- still there can be noobs, phone calls, little children making a nice number 2 in their pants, dogs eating the couch, your car being stolen, food burning, whatever… And Newbs. And people who want to learn. The fact you want perfection isn’t going to appear, in a guild you can make agreements, you can plan, you can tune builds and so on. With pugs it’s a waste of time, so I agree it’s nice if it fits… But waiting for hell to freeze over before you can start your CoF p1 is just a waste of everybodies time?

So in the end your “elitist group behind the checkbox” is going to keep doing meta,
changing it without communication and people not using the checkbox will never get in leaving a game without teachers… Do you think this will happen?

Even if you do not want to teach each time you bring a realtively unexpereinced guy he will learn, thus be tought… If you lock it all… Where will it end? Think it will improve the game for all players? OR just for those few behind the checkbox?

And what would happen if the game engine is opened up to conditions, and the meta shifts or something else happens and the meta is “refreshed”??

1 Problem remains:

And eventually, if not right away, other people will check the checkbox to know what is going on, and people will start flaming the forums against people not staying on their side of the checkbox…. And the Casuals and the Non-Meta’s will flow in like a waterfall, and you can kick everything again based on stats now. But it will no longer be behind the checkbox, destroying your concept.

The reason why it will not work is curiosity.
Who is seperating who? It’s introcucing a gear check. The checkbox is an illusion… The concept the checkbox will make this completely full/fool-proof is an illusion as well, even double so.

maha.7902:

This is nothing to do with min-maxing or meta, this is to do with weeding out people who don’t meet your requirements joining your group.

You can already do that with asking them to ping their gear.

Something that I’ve noticed over these two years is the player base’s insistence on dividing themselves. They want to be able to exclude themselves from whatever segment of the player base they want (be it hard modes to filter out the “casuals”, or gear checks to filter out people who don’t have the “right” gear, or raids to filter out the “noobs” dragging them down, etc…)

I suspect you’re not seeing these tools because the last thing Arena.net has wanted to do is fragment the player base. They don’t want you filtering out swaths of players for whatever reason.