Guild Wars 2

If you read the patch notes, there are plenty of things getting “nerfed” that sound like good old fashion grinding. Run a dungeon too much, and you get an invisible DR system (essentially, a punishment saying you farmed too fast). Like to do a few event back to back in Orr? Be careful, Arenanet cuts back your loot without even telling you.

I, for one, am displeased with the knee-jerk method in which they’re handling things in the game. If you dont like us getting lots of experience in a dungeon, just nerf the overall experience. Don’t make me feel like I’ve done something wrong because I’m farming it. At this point, I’m afraid to play the game because every way I think to make money or get fast XP runs the risk of Arenanet nerfing or calling me an exploiter.

So what is our end result? Well if you look today, the same botters are farming events for over a week with no ban, yet patches are rolling out that constantly keep me on the move. I do not want to be told to “stop enjoying dungeons, go do something else now”. I should be able to log in and do whatever I want for the same fun/reward regardless of how often I feel like doing it.

So yes, I’m starting to have some very well-founded concerns about the play experience. I’m getting put through the gold-sink ringer, barely keeping my head above water financially, while arenanet constantly patches invisible limiters on the success I can have.

At the very least, do me the courtesy of showing a debuff when I’ve capped out on experience or loot for an area. I should not have to guess when I’ve farmed an event “too much”. I resent that there even IS a “too much”, but demand to be treated with a little dignity. You got my $60. Please give me a lot of value and just a little respect.

Do you feel like you took an arrow to the knee?

So they put it in a week ago and now they’re trying to fix it and make it less restrictive and you folk are still complaining?

Tradewind, I think your question, best stated, is “Do you still feel you have the right to voice concerns on the forums?”. And if that’s your question, my answer is yes.

There’s a trend here. The trend is that GW2 has lots of stuff to do, and I’m feeling forced to hop around from thing 1 to thing 2 because I’m, for some reason, not allowed to hunker down and farm.

Farming/grinding is in MMO players’ blood. Even though games figure out creative ways to avoid it at times, the majority of MMORPG players understand that some thing just take time. So we learn to put the game on TV, grab some lunchable snacks, and mindlessly farm for an hour or two on our own version of “autopilot”. I think if there’s nothing wrong with doing an event once, there’s nothing wrong with doing it every single time it’s up.

And my biggest complaint remains: If i’m not doing anything WRONG here, at least give me the courtesy of a debuff. Right now, with no indication besides “man I don’t seem to be getting many greens or rares anymore”, I’m having to constantly ask myself “Am I farming too much? Am I getting penalized yet?”.

I resent the non-disclosure, and I resent being told exactly how I’m supposed to enjoy this game. I thought I got to log in and choose what I did for fun.

Tradewind.6913:

So they put it in a week ago and now they’re trying to fix it and make it less restrictive and you folk are still complaining?

They did it without public testing, seeking player feedback on whether they WANTED things like a story mode nerf, or addressing the root causes of undesired behavior. Thus the shaken confidence of the OP.

Tradewind.6913:

So they put it in a week ago and now they’re trying to fix it and make it less restrictive and you folk are still complaining?

Its not fixed, thats the point, thus the complaining will continue and rightfully so.

game is starting to go down the drain.

There’s a difference between voicing a concern and just making Orwellian accusations of being manipulated into playing the game “their way.” But since this is going to turn into one of those threads now the usual suspects are back at it, enjoy the confirmation and still trying to draw attention to matters of grinding in a game that isn’t about grinding.

Arena Net places some placeholder barriers while they make proper fixes.
It’s not “knee-jerk reaction”, it’s tempestively stopping exploits before it’s too late while they develop a proper response.

It’s what devs should do in general instead of letting people exploit for months and then “uh, we fixed that bug everyone got rich with, everyone starting to play now will be a joke”

I agree. IF they are going to reduce the stuff you get from farming things(which honestly I’m okay with, so whatever), at the very LEAST we should be informed somehow that we will now be getting less loot/xp/items, etc… Otherwise, get rid of it, because bots are still farming no matter how hard you try Anet. The real players seem to be the ones affected, the bots don’t care.

Oh and in reference to the “nobody communicates” problem:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Update-Notes-September-17th-2012/first#post149651

Looks like it’s in there, quite plainly.

I bought the Deluxe Edition, and was afraid to install the game. I installed it three days later.

Now I play three hours a night (too much) and find myself on these forums and reddit/r/guildwars2 when I’m @ work.

I should have never installed the game.

so to end farmers you make it harder to get items that you need to make things, or things you just generally want….seems legit. time to farm harder guys i want those armors!!! but they made it harder so i gotta farm even harder now! GG…just GG

Seriously dude? For 60$ you don’t think you got your value yet? If you don’t I don’t know what to say to you.

It comes down to if you are still having fun. Yes? No? If no, go do something else for a bit and come back.

they brought a patch to stop speedfarmers,so?

If they dont then ppl wil complain on how speed farmers are given free reign.

Booshbagg.6183:

so to end farmers you make it harder to get items that you need to make things, or things you just generally want….seems legit. time to farm harder guys i want those armors!!! but they made it harder so i gotta farm even harder now! GG…just GG

You get the tokens at the end of the run now with a added droprate next to that. How does that make the dungeon harder?

Unless your one of the speed farmers of course
Now the real goodies you get at the end of it, nothing new or strange about that is there.

…what? The dungeon reward system is infinitely better after today’s patch.

Eochaidh.4106:

…what? The dungeon reward system is infinitely better after today’s patch.

Yes but thats no fun to make threads about i gather

People on Forums

Complain about A because it is too much B
They fix A
Complain about B because it is too much A

I cannot count the number of threads I have seen where some people argue intensely for one thing, Anet actually PROVIDES IT (wtf?!) and then other people complain about exactly that.

Ex:

Dude: “Hello Anet, please make dungeon tokens account bound not character bound, thx”

Anet: “sure no probz dude you seem cool”

Dude2: “omfg Anet you are so stupid now characters that have never set foot in a dungeon can get armor sets from there omfg why is your game so full of crap”

Answer: There is no pleasing 100% of the playerbase. If Anet tries to please 80% of the playerbase it will only work 20% of the time.

Solution = kitten and only ask them to fix things that are IMPORTANT. Because unlike a number of other games, the development team actually seems to care, they have displayed the ability to make quick, decisive modifications based on customer feedback, and most importantly, THEY DO NOT LISTEN TO EVERYkittenON THE FORUMS.

Eochaidh.4106:

…what? The dungeon reward system is infinitely better after today’s patch.

I don’t believe you, because I’ve had many people on these forums telling me that it will never be fixed and that Arena.net has a PhD in kitten over everyone in the game!

Smackjack.5071:

Eochaidh.4106:

…what? The dungeon reward system is infinitely better after today’s patch.

Yes but thats no fun to make threads about i gather

This is probably the most complete answer I’ve seen.

Red Falcon.8257:

Arena Net places some placeholder barriers while they make proper fixes.
It’s not “knee-jerk reaction”, it’s tempestively stopping exploits before it’s too late while they develop a proper response.

It’s what devs should do in general instead of letting people exploit for months and then “uh, we fixed that bug everyone got rich with, everyone starting to play now will be a joke”

^This pretty much. Would you rather have the economy become completely out of whack while they are working on a fix that may take weeks?

The economy is already completely out of whack. Not sure what you are getting at here.

@Moonpuncher: “Farming/grinding is in MMO players’ blood.”

I get that a lot of people find that satisfying, but I certainly don’t think everyone thinks that way. It’s a personal preference really, and there are probably more than you would guess who don’t adhere to that quote.

That being said, I don’t know if ANet’s singling out of farmers is a bad call or not. Personally, I have no idea why players feel the need to amass wealth/gear/etc. But I suppose if a large enough portion of the player base wants it, it may change. ANet has typically been pretty responsive to player needs.

QUICK! Get a jar!

Catch the tears of the weak. They are the tears of the carebears. A loud whining animal. They seem to have evaded “survival of the fittest” but we shall bottle their tears and discover their weakness.

I didn’t know farming was being a carebear? I always thought it was a WoW term people on PvP servers used to attempt to think they are mega elite awesomes, and then whine when they lose to said carebears.

Carebear

Back in the day, Carebear referred to a person or a game mechanic which eliminated or reduced all risk and challenge and realism from the game.

These days people throw the term carebear around to mean ANYTHING derotagory. Want to craft? You’re a carebear! Don’t want to play an mmorpg like a first person shooter? You’re a carebear! Don’t like to play the game like I play the game? You’re a carebear!

The term carebear has become mangled and meaningless. But it used to mean something important to hardcore gamers.

Examples of the ORIGINAL term are:
No full loot was “carebear”
Safe zones were “carebear”
Limits on who you can attack and where you can attack them were “carebear.”
Limits on freedom in general were “carebear.”
Instances were “carebear.”

Carebears were people who wanted devs to develop/change games to make their gaming experience easy, safe, and cozy. No risk, no challenge, no realism. Cozy like a carebear.

SOOOOOO the OP is a Carebear because they made it harder and longer to get Items. They are a carebear because the dev’s introduced challenge and time to get items. The way it was before was easy, No risk, no challenge.

Now while still easy, it is hard then it was. And they are whining about it. They want it back to the easy and no challenge. Thus… Carebear.

Or in this case, Reverse Carebear…. Oh… I like that.

^No one should be using that term outside of hardcore PvP games either way, it’s just silly to do so.

There’s a trend here. The trend is that GW2 has lots of stuff to do, and I’m feeling forced to hop around from thing 1 to thing 2 because I’m, for some reason, not allowed to hunker down and farm.

yes that is called playing a game

Farming/grinding is in MMO players’ blood. Even though games figure out creative ways to avoid it at times, the majority of MMORPG players understand that some thing just take time. So we learn to put the game on TV, grab some lunchable snacks, and mindlessly farm for an hour or two on our own version of “autopilot”. I think if there’s nothing wrong with doing an event once, there’s nothing wrong with doing it every single time it’s up.

Are you freaking kidding me? Why in the name of all that is gaming would you want to do that? And then complain that you can’t? Play a game or watch tv- problem solved- the fact that you can’t seem to see that those 2 things are conflicting activities really scare the kitten out of me- and then you talk about how this is what you enjoy?
If you do- then I don’t know what to say to you.

I have never hit any kind of cap in this game but I guess that is because I actually play the game.

*And my biggest complaint remains: If i’m not doing anything WRONG here, at least give me the courtesy of a debuff. Right now, with no indication besides “man I don’t seem to be getting many greens or rares anymore”, I’m having to constantly ask myself "Am I farming too much? Am I getting penalized yet ? *

You are basically saying that you want to AFK while you are doing other stuff and just get rich, while your character farms for you- I have no sympathy for you

I resent the non-disclosure, and I resent being told exactly how I’m supposed to enjoy this game. I thought I got to log in and choose what I did for fun

There has been total transparency from the start- Anet gives feed back all the time, they are actively working to fix issues in the game all the time. The operative word here is game not FB app.
Sorry for my rant but really enough with this now!

Uh, there is no challenge. It is artificial time inflation to punish bots, no players. The OP isn’t a carebear. He wants to see results put in for his farming efforts. He doesn’t want to get punished for sitting on one -map- for 30 minutes. I say map, cause I personally do chain events myself and get little to no loot after the third-fourth event.

Your logic is mind boggling. People want a real reward for their effort put in. If I am spending 3-4 hours farming vials of thick blood, I actually want some vials of thick blood and not 5-6 of them.

Strato.4389:

Uh, there is no challenge. It is artificial time inflation to punish bots, no players. The OP isn’t a carebear. He wants to see results put in for his farming efforts. He doesn’t want to get punished for sitting on one -map- for 30 minutes. I say map, cause I personally do chain events myself and get little to no loot after the third-fourth event.

Your logic is mind boggling. People want a real reward for their effort put in. If I am spending 3-4 hours farming vials of thick blood, I actually want some vials of thick blood and not 5-6 of them.

Oh good kitten have you actually thought about just playing for 3-4 hours, with no farming in mind?
I promise you if you did you could just have bought the thick blood of the TP.

It is about doing things and seeing interesting places, hey maybe gather some nodes-take your rewards and spend it on whatever you want (thick blood) not farming- how hard is that to understand?

He’s right though the anti-farming code has made me stop playing the game entirely that combined with dungeons being a fiasco… game will straighten out i’m sure but i am kind of taking a break and hoping things get better… plus well torchlight 2 is amazing x3!

Had anyone actually read today’s patch and update notes, they’d have seen that there’s already been changes to how restrictive the anti-farming practices are, at least in terms of dungeons.

Well no my logic is sound… Here is why…

1. The no grind was meant for levels only… As seen here.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bKtGxVj3msM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

2. This whole “reward now” system really started with Wrath of The Lich King, By the whole implementation of the “Welfare Epics”. You could just go and grind out tokens and get gear from tokens with out really doing much int he way of Content. Then Cata came and then really took off. Since cata everyone can do Dragon soul. Which is good and bad at the same time.

Guild Wars 2 from the beginning has said they want to pull away from where MMO’s are now. They wanted to make something that is not really prevalent. IMO they wanted to make the game more like WoW vanilla, In spirit not letter. IN WoW vanilla. There were people running around in Teir2 who did BWL and such and people were like “man that is COOL!” that kind of gearing took for ever. It was hard it was tedious it took hours upon hours. Many did not follow in step to get said achievements because the time it took was not worth it to them. The percent of people who actually had these items was pretty small.

Now GW2 comes along and says we need to be different then where MMO’s are now, they see that there is a trend to farm out tokens and easily get gear. They are going to nerf it because they do not want to be like the current trend of other games. To not know this or understand it, is poor research and knowledge of the game the player bought.

3. If you are whining and crying about the farming in this game it is rude, dis-respectful and just plain ignorant to blame Anet for cracking down on it. Anet did not do the farming or set that up. The bots and the farmers did. That is why they cracked down it. Bots where farming the crap out stuff.

Whining about it, is like whining about how gun laws have shaped our society in terms of self defense. A lot of the laws we have now a days severely limit your right to own and carry a firearm and your ability to defend yourself. Do you blame the law makers for making crack head laws… NO it is response to bad people doing evil and bad things. Blaming the law makers is like blaming the messengers.

It is not Anet’s fault, it is the bots and bad farmers. Help Anet by reporting and black listing bots and farmers. that will make them stop. Kittening at Anet won’t.

That is why it is carebears and whinners… They just scream kick and whine instead of helping a company fix the issue by not being apart of the problem.

You can be the kid in the stroller who is screaming your head and everybody is watching and laughing at you, or you can be the kid that helps mommy and daddy out by not embarrassing them and making shopping that much easier. The choice is yours.

Oh good kitten have you actually thought about just playing for 3-4 hours, with no farming in mind?
I promise you if you did you could just have bought the thick blood of the TP.
It is about doing things and seeing interesting places, hey maybe gather some nodes-take your rewards and spend it on whatever you want (thick blood) not farming- how hard is that to understand?

Cause Orr is a magical, pretty, wonderful place full of amazing scenery. I can’t wait until I log in, and see wave after wave of risen infront of one mining node, and then run off to do an event for 300 karma and a silver!

^_^

I promise you, buying the amount of fine crafting materials to level a craft costs almost 3x the amount of a finished product. The game is -all about farming-. Especially if you want to make money to buy anything.

It is not the player’s fault the only level 80 areas are generic undead land A, and generic snow land B. There isn’t any interesting places to just visit. Alot of skill points/events are bugged. Making finishing my 83% out of 100% map exploration really hard to do.

The entire game is about farming at 80. Especially if you want some decent looking armor/weapon skins.

Maybe you should go play the game instead of kittening, because you’re complaining about things they just fixed in last night’s patch still.

Maybe you should play the game and see there is plenty still bugged, and people still can’t reliably farm fine crafting materials.

That’s very clever, taking what I said and then trying to make it something else, then tossing in something anecdotal like that. It’s neat. Obviously there’s a disconnect in what the term “reliably farm” means…your definition seems to preclude the notion of “having to do it in more than one tiny area.”

Saying what I am posting is anecdotal (Ghostcrawler loves this word!) without providing evidence of your own just makes you silly. Considering there is TONS of people complaining about the lack of reliable farming options for fine crafting materials to level, as opposed to people like you, I’d say there is nothing anecdotal about what I’ve posted.

It isn’t even forums based, I actually see -more- complaining in game than in forums.

So everyone who has found a way to do it is just wrong. Gotcha.

Judging by the amount of these materials on the trading post many people have found ways to gather them. Maybe you should focus on figuring out how that’s being accomplished.

You mean the bots selling the materials? Indeed. They have found a way.

I’m sure you’ve found a way too, and for a game that proclaims being a community based game, the community wants to do nothing to help others. But please, keep acting like you are some moral high horse cause you are fine getting 2-3 fine crafting materials an hour. Rest of us want a real reward for our time put in.

Oh now you’re making up numbers for me and apparently everyone selling the materials is a bot. You’re on a roll. Again, try picking up your sleeves instead of clamoring for appeasement.

p.s. if you hadn’t figured it out, the best way around it is to seek out more valuable items and buy the raw materials you need. Typically at a profit beyond farming them in the first place. That’s some free community help.

The concept of reward for time invested is a workplace concept that doesn’t belong in games. Rewards should exist for achieving something significant, but not for killing the same mobs over and over again. Anet’s philosophy on this is spot on. The problem lies with the players and their fixation on getting the skins they want ASAP — which turns everything into fine-crafting-mats/hr equations and a big spreadsheet in your head, when the idea is to play the game naturally and the rewards will follow. If you don’t find the gameplay rewarding, you really shouldn’t be chasing rewards, because as Anet said, there is no “endgame” to “use the rewards” in — the rewards are there as something that happens naturally through longer gameplay (and they’ve shortened it a lot now with the increased dungeon token drops anyway).

Oh now you’re making up numbers for me and apparently everyone selling the materials is a bot. You’re on a roll. Again, try picking up your sleeves instead of clamoring for appeasement.
p.s. if you hadn’t figured it out, the best way around it is to seek out more valuable items and buy the raw materials you need. Typically at a profit beyond farming them in the first place. That’s some free community help.

Lol. This doesn’t even work. The only thing that sells for really high prices on the TP is crafting materials, and legendary exotics.

@Knightblaster – Then I should naturally get enough money, and crafting materials to level my professions without the need to farm out tons of gold/materials to do so right? ohwait. I don’t care if I am sitting in rares, or exotics, I want to be able to level my crafting profession. Crafting is what I enjoy doing in every game, yet it is a job in this one. Crafting in FFXIV is -easier-, and that is saying a lot. The gameplay is more of the same really. Collision detection was added to attacks, tanking/healing was removed infavor a mediocre support abilities and a limited dodge roll.

Obviously, I still somewhat like the game or I wouldn’t be here on these forums. There is still nothing being done about bots, or people that exploited to get insanely ahead of most of the community.

Again you’re precluding the notion that you have to actually invest some time into it. 10g is 10g regardless if it needs 1 or 2 items of high value or 20-30 of lower value. You said there’s no “reliable” methods remaining to obtain crafting mats. That’s one reliable method…and actually takes considerably less time to do it.

Yes you need gold and materials. If you are focused on grinding up your professions, yes, it’s going to be a hellacious grind.

GW2 is designed to be played — various content, mix it up. If you are focused like a laser beam on maxing one area of the game, it will be a hella grind, by design.

It wasn’t designed that way, it is only through recent patches to punish bots that it was made that way.

Actually the adjustments are not just to punish bots, but to cut down on materials farmed overall. The design has always been one that rewards a variety of gameplay, not focused gameplay.

Hey guess what! I can act like all of you too!

These patches are stupid and all of you are babies!

Oh man! That proved my point, right?!

Read the dungeons thread for incredibly good reasons why this is the dumbest thing to hit GW2 since Anet started letting just anyone make their changes on a whim.

Read the dungeons thread for incredibly good reasons why this is the dumbest thing to hit GW2 since Anet started letting just anyone make their changes on a whim.

I see people complaining, justified I guess…then Devs asking for details…then more people just complaining and still no details being provided. I think it’s some unwritten rule that people live to just make other’s jobs harder for no reason, even when they’re trying to help.