Guild Wars 2

The agony resistance is a great stat, but it is only usefull inside the fractals.

In PvP and WvW the damage of the conditions is a problem (unless you are using a condi build jajajaj).

Why not make the agony resistance the stat of the condition damage redution?

It is in game, the prize of the infusions would rise, the ascend armor would be more important, and the WvWer could be happy.

The conditions are not a problem! GG noob you do not know how to play against them!

The items exist, the spots in the armor exist, so less work for Anet.

Sure, if toughness makes it so that i can’t get an 8K crit through 1.7K toughness we can talk about this.

So you want to make every PvPer and WvWer have to own ascended weapon and armor ? WvWer will not be happy because there is no way for them to gain ascended armor in wvw. It feels like a terrible change.

We have drops and most wvw guys have some pieces of asc gear either drops or crafting it slowly…. All i do now is wvw, working on asc weapon but have 3 asc armor pieces and all trinks are asc…. Its not hard to attain the pieces. And i am a casual player, so those that play hardcore shouldnt have an issue with getting asc gear either

I would love that change that agony would effect condi damage.

When it comes to power specs think how much damage you would receive if u had no toughness or armor…. That 8k crit would be what? 12 or 14k crit?

As of right now condi damage has no stat to midigate its damage, agony resist would be perfect. But oh condi spect players say but but you have utilities like cleanses and whatnot. But when those are on cd… Just saying.

If condi damage is so high on tics then there needs to be a stat to midigate it slightly.

pow pow power creep – pow power creep – power creeeeep! king of the creep!

No. there are stat infusions that provide a trivial bonus if you have ascended gear and don’t fractals but do wvw and want to be a true munchkin. PVP doesn’t actually use your gear other than weapon type and skins for looks, and that certainly doesn’t need to suddenly change.

If condi is a problem in zergs, it either needs rebalancing or (more likely) people need to bring more condi removal – you don’t just add arbitrary resistance to only one of the two types of damage, especially the one whose damage potential can already be largely avoided after it’s been delivered and before it takes effect.

signed,
a thief that regularly doesn’t bring enough condi removal, and plays power builds.

Power technically has resistence stat… Armor rating and toughness…. Condi does not…
Granted i play zerk trait shout build so condi isnt an issue, but teefs and revs would prob love a stat that lowers condi damage.
Power creep isnt new in any mmo all well.

The problem with having agony provide condition damage reduction is that there’s no trade-off. You slot the infusions into your ascended equipment and that’s it.

You’re essentially suggested the equivalent of a game-wide (excluding sPvP) reduction on condition damage that’s only for those that shell out the gold for ascended gear.

If conditions are truly an issue then it should be resolved at the source and not with indirect fixes that only serve as a bandaid.

Gear doesnt mater in Spvp but it does matter in WvW, still have no idea why that mode has availability to get asc and WvW doesnt but all well no biggy

LouWolfskin.3492:

Sure, if toughness makes it so that i can’t get an 8K crit through 1.7K toughness we can talk about this.

Agreed. Overall TTL is the problem, not conditions in particular.

Toughness does need a rework then too. But as we know enet would overtune it and then we would have more condi builds… And the cycle starts all over

Agony originally was added as a gating mechanic for fractals. The theory was that only people with experience would have enough AR to participate at top tier fractals. In practice, that’s no longer true: anyone with enough gold can get 150 AR (through a variety of methods).

I think it would be foolish for ANet to consider spreading agony resistance requirements to other game modes, including raids — it adds nothing to those game modes while alienating people who don’t have already have lots of AR.

You know what’s really bad though anet gated ar to fractals then gated the ONLY legendary back piece for pve scrubs like me with wvw of course and then gate it at a 98 fractal that you need what 148 ar to even think of stepping in? Better add another legendary back piece and soon because I absolutely hate fractals but I want that back so I shelled out $700 into gems just so I could have the AR required. so not only are we limited on well….everything yep that’s about it oh no new races no new lands(continents ex. Cantha/Istani) why don’t they just close the game and refund all of us? Sorry anet I had high hopes when the game was announced and even at release and during betas but this game will forever be a shadow of your first work unless something changes.

Sincerly,
Guild Wars Vet.

flog.3485:

So you want to make every PvPer and WvWer have to own ascended weapon and armor ? WvWer will not be happy because there is no way for them to gain ascended armor in wvw. It feels like a terrible change.

i thought having asc in wvw is a must coz its really good

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Agony originally was added as a gating mechanic for fractals. The theory was that only people with experience would have enough AR to participate at top tier fractals. In practice, that’s no longer true: anyone with enough gold can get 150 AR (through a variety of methods).

I think it would be foolish for ANet to consider spreading agony resistance requirements to other game modes, including raids — it adds nothing to those game modes while alienating people who don’t have already have lots of AR.

he doesnt say it as a requirement he says that make ar work as toughness but for condis. Its an interesting idea but idk id prefer an actual stat that give condi resistance

cyn.2157:

If condi is a problem in zergs, it either needs rebalancing or (more likely) people need to bring more condi removal

Man if only that was possible. With the way classes kitten out conditions there would never be enough condi removal in this game to deal with it all.

The rebalancing needs to happen at the source of conditions where each class has 1 damaging condition and 2 covers max. If you’ve ever played condi Guardian, it’s probably the most balanced condi class when it comes to this. You have burning as your damage and if you spec into DH you can gain cripple and vulnerability as covers, unlike other condi classes that just look at you and you gain 5 conditions really. Though if the rumors are true, Guardian will be joining the other classes and probably kitten out conditions like no tomorrow come next expansion.

Though the true rebalancing that should happen are with stats in general. All stats, even condi damage and expertise, should start at 1000 and have a base value. Then all condis should all have a scaling factor with no base value to them, so that when you gain 1000 condi damage the damage of the condition doubles just like how 1000 power doubles your power damage. This would solve the problem that occurs currently where when you gear 1000 condi damage bleeds increase by ~250% damage while burning only increases by ~180%. There is a true failure in the stat system when Anet added stats beyond power, precision, vitality, and toughness, but didn’t decide to overhaul it completely.

If they added something like this they could relook at vitality and toughness (as well as maybe adding a resistance stat, cause you resist conditions), where at 2000 toughness you’d reduce damage by 50% and at 2000 resistance you’d resist 50% condition damage as an example. At the same time 2000 vitality should make you have double the health (aka base health scaling x vitality = current health, since Guardians have ~12k health at no extra vitality they’d have a scaling factor of 1.2 x vitality, while warriors would have 1.8 x vitality to get their 18k, and at 2000 vitality you’d have 24k and 36k). In a system where all stats start at 1000 and everything is a scaling factor healing power would become more powerful as well doubling the output for certain terribly scaling abilities.

Yes I know this post took a total tangent, but the problem with condis stems from the core stat system not being universal across the stats and their usefulness.

Oh I definitely agree – the stat system as it currently works is rather horribly broken, and you’ve called out the exact problem – all stat combinations give the same numbers, but those numbers rarely (if ever) have an equal effect. I’d love for ANet to do a massive change and just fix it all, and make everything have sane equivalent formulas, and re-stat celestial to truly give a ‘balanced’ amount of ALL stats (Celestial is such a nice idea, but it’s too timegated for all the stats it lacks) – but the amount of balancing required from ANet to change all the skills and everything, I can’t imagine it ever -can- happen. Add on top of that the rage that it would cause people is nigh unthinkable, with leather prices where they are now, and no way to extract runes/sigils outside of gemstore – I don’t even know what it currently costs to change a full set of scholar (or another expensive rune) ascended with another stat set + repurchase runes, but multiply that by – well – probably just about everyone doing it all of a sudden? The TP would melt in a shiny fiery goldsink that would consume so much of the economy, and a single piece of leather would be worth like 100 gems by the time the smoke cleared.

zealex.9410:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Agony originally was added as a gating mechanic for fractals. The theory was that only people with experience would have enough AR to participate at top tier fractals. In practice, that’s no longer true: anyone with enough gold can get 150 AR (through a variety of methods).

I think it would be foolish for ANet to consider spreading agony resistance requirements to other game modes, including raids — it adds nothing to those game modes while alienating people who don’t have already have lots of AR.

he doesnt say it as a requirement he says that make ar work as toughness but for condis. Its an interesting idea but idk id prefer an actual stat that give condi resistance

And I’m saying it would be a bad idea to spread its use elsewhere, regardless of its use.

It is a gating mechanic; it’s not meant to serve any other purpose. Shoehorning it to have other uses will annoy the tons of people who haven’t had any reason to play fractals or spend gold on infusions. It will also force frequent fractallers to regear appropriately for these other uses.

I wasn’t going to comment on the specific idea of a toughness for conditions, but since you bring it up: I think that make the idea even less useful. Conditions are intended as indirect damage over time. Because they take longer to scale up, they deliberately bypass toughness.

If there’s an issue with conditions no longer being balanced for WvW, wouldn’t it be better for ANet to address that directly, rather than cobbling together some weird new mechanic? There are already a variety of suggestions from the community that don’t require redoing infusions.

In short:

• It’s generally a bad idea to reuse a gating mechanic for just about anything other than gating.
• Any issue with balance in WvW is best handled by, you know, adjusting the balance in WvW.

zealex.9410:

flog.3485:

So you want to make every PvPer and WvWer have to own ascended weapon and armor ? WvWer will not be happy because there is no way for them to gain ascended armor in wvw. It feels like a terrible change.

i thought having asc in wvw is a must coz its really good

No way that everyone running around in wvw all have ascended armor and weapons. Even more so when the wvw centric players have no access to ascended
Armor in their preferred mode.

“vitality” is what you’re looking for.

There’s already a game mechanic to mitigate condi damage. It’s called condi cleanse. People on here talking about about conditions like there’s absolutely no counter what so ever. This must be your first week in gw2 or some nonsense. I can have 99 stacks of bleed and 50 stacks of burning slammed on me all at once and all I have to do is astral form as a druid and low and behold, every single condition I had on me is gone, wiped from existence. Wheres my direct damage cleanse? Sure armor partially mitigates, but it certainly doesn’t make direct damage disappear without a trace.

If you run around without any condi cleanse that’s your fault, not the games. I don’t run around with no armor on and then come complain on the forums because a dagger thief backstabbed me for the entirety of my health bar in a single hit.

Azoqu.8917:

cyn.2157:

If condi is a problem in zergs, it either needs rebalancing or (more likely) people need to bring more condi removal

Man if only that was possible. With the way classes kitten out conditions there would never be enough condi removal in this game to deal with it all.

The rebalancing needs to happen at the source of conditions where each class has 1 damaging condition and 2 covers max. If you’ve ever played condi Guardian, it’s probably the most balanced condi class when it comes to this. You have burning as your damage and if you spec into DH you can gain cripple and vulnerability as covers, unlike other condi classes that just look at you and you gain 5 conditions really. Though if the rumors are true, Guardian will be joining the other classes and probably kitten out conditions like no tomorrow come next expansion.

Though the true rebalancing that should happen are with stats in general. All stats, even condi damage and expertise, should start at 1000 and have a base value. Then all condis should all have a scaling factor with no base value to them, so that when you gain 1000 condi damage the damage of the condition doubles just like how 1000 power doubles your power damage. This would solve the problem that occurs currently where when you gear 1000 condi damage bleeds increase by ~250% damage while burning only increases by ~180%. There is a true failure in the stat system when Anet added stats beyond power, precision, vitality, and toughness, but didn’t decide to overhaul it completely.

If they added something like this they could relook at vitality and toughness (as well as maybe adding a resistance stat, cause you resist conditions), where at 2000 toughness you’d reduce damage by 50% and at 2000 resistance you’d resist 50% condition damage as an example. At the same time 2000 vitality should make you have double the health (aka base health scaling x vitality = current health, since Guardians have ~12k health at no extra vitality they’d have a scaling factor of 1.2 x vitality, while warriors would have 1.8 x vitality to get their 18k, and at 2000 vitality you’d have 24k and 36k). In a system where all stats start at 1000 and everything is a scaling factor healing power would become more powerful as well doubling the output for certain terribly scaling abilities.

Yes I know this post took a total tangent, but the problem with condis stems from the core stat system not being universal across the stats and their usefulness.

wow wish they would hire you or copy paste was you suggest.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

There’s already a game mechanic to mitigate condi damage. It’s called condi cleanse. People on here talking about about conditions like there’s absolutely no counter what so ever. This must be your first week in gw2 or some nonsense. I can have 99 stacks of bleed and 50 stacks of burning slammed on me all at once and all I have to do is astral form as a druid and low and behold, every single condition I had on me is gone, wiped from existence. Wheres my direct damage cleanse? Sure armor partially mitigates, but it certainly doesn’t make direct damage disappear without a trace.

theres also a counter to power builds its called evades blocks aegis etc but theres also a stat that even further counters power.

You bring that up as if its some big “GOTCHA” except evades, blocks, and aegis work just as well against conditions so…

It’s like you’re making my argument for me. So not only can you cleanse conditions if they do get applied, but you can also just evade, block, or aegis the condition applying attack. Thanks… you’re right there are a lot of ways to counter conditions.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

You bring that up as if its some big “GOTCHA” except evades, blocks, and aegis work just as well against conditions so…

yes but power dmg comes in a smaller window so these means of midigating or ignoring the dmg are much stronger while for conditions the fact that they last that long makes it so after u used said skills u just stand there unable to do much.

zealex.9410:

yes but power dmg comes in a smaller window so these means of midigating or ignoring the dmg are much stronger while for conditions the fact that they last that long makes it so after u used said skills u just stand there unable to do much.

And when a player drops their condi rotation on someone and then watches it all get cleansed away with the press of a button, you think their cooldowns just magically reset and they get to do it all again instantly? Its the same thing. If your argument is that power builds only have some kind of 30 second cd burst window and they don’t have consistent damage, then I have to ask what game you’re playing, because its not this game.

Azoqu.8917:

The rebalancing needs to happen at the source of conditions where each class has 1 damaging condition and 2 covers max. If you’ve ever played condi Guardian, it’s probably the most balanced condi class when it comes to this. You have burning as your damage and if you spec into DH you can gain cripple and vulnerability as covers, unlike other condi classes that just look at you and you gain 5 conditions really. Though if the rumors are true, Guardian will be joining the other classes and probably kitten out conditions like no tomorrow come next expansion.

Then you run into an Ember/Fire Elemental/Destroyer and realized what a terrible mistake it was to rely only on burning. :P

The idea of cover condition is also subverted by the fact that some condi removal target specific conditions or specific types.

Azoqu.8917:

cyn.2157:

If condi is a problem in zergs, it either needs rebalancing or (more likely) people need to bring more condi removal

Man if only that was possible. With the way classes kitten out conditions there would never be enough condi removal in this game to deal with it all.

The rebalancing needs to happen at the source of conditions where each class has 1 damaging condition and 2 covers max. If you’ve ever played condi Guardian, it’s probably the most balanced condi class when it comes to this. You have burning as your damage and if you spec into DH you can gain cripple and vulnerability as covers, unlike other condi classes that just look at you and you gain 5 conditions really. Though if the rumors are true, Guardian will be joining the other classes and probably kitten out conditions like no tomorrow come next expansion.

Though the true rebalancing that should happen are with stats in general. All stats, even condi damage and expertise, should start at 1000 and have a base value. Then all condis should all have a scaling factor with no base value to them, so that when you gain 1000 condi damage the damage of the condition doubles just like how 1000 power doubles your power damage. This would solve the problem that occurs currently where when you gear 1000 condi damage bleeds increase by ~250% damage while burning only increases by ~180%. There is a true failure in the stat system when Anet added stats beyond power, precision, vitality, and toughness, but didn’t decide to overhaul it completely.

If they added something like this they could relook at vitality and toughness (as well as maybe adding a resistance stat, cause you resist conditions), where at 2000 toughness you’d reduce damage by 50% and at 2000 resistance you’d resist 50% condition damage as an example. At the same time 2000 vitality should make you have double the health (aka base health scaling x vitality = current health, since Guardians have ~12k health at no extra vitality they’d have a scaling factor of 1.2 x vitality, while warriors would have 1.8 x vitality to get their 18k, and at 2000 vitality you’d have 24k and 36k). In a system where all stats start at 1000 and everything is a scaling factor healing power would become more powerful as well doubling the output for certain terribly scaling abilities.

Yes I know this post took a total tangent, but the problem with condis stems from the core stat system not being universal across the stats and their usefulness.

i will upload this as a thread of its own if that’s ok with you

Khisanth.2948:

Azoqu.8917:

The rebalancing needs to happen at the source of conditions where each class has 1 damaging condition and 2 covers max. If you’ve ever played condi Guardian, it’s probably the most balanced condi class when it comes to this. You have burning as your damage and if you spec into DH you can gain cripple and vulnerability as covers, unlike other condi classes that just look at you and you gain 5 conditions really. Though if the rumors are true, Guardian will be joining the other classes and probably kitten out conditions like no tomorrow come next expansion.

Then you run into an Ember/Fire Elemental/Destroyer and realized what a terrible mistake it was to rely only on burning. :P

The idea of cover condition is also subverted by the fact that some condi removal target specific conditions or specific types.

Coincidentally, modern destroyers and embers are not immune to burning. I wish that would get refitted back to the older ones too… though thankfully I’m not burning focused any more when I run about the maps.