Guild Wars 2

There have been a few threads over the past months about AFKers either causing event scaling problems or leeching by collecting rewards from events they didn’t participate in. In Silverwastes the fort NPCs will often revive a downed AFK player even if the other players ignore the AFK person.

As a possible solution I wanted to suggest that when a player’s armor is all broken that they become unrevivable and their only option is to waypoint out (and hopefully visit an armor repair station.)

From the perspective of the AFK player, this should not be too burdensome a problem if you had a legitimate reason to go AFK for a short period of time such as bio-break, check a crying child, grab some food, etc. The chances of you going down and being revived enough times to both damage and then break all your armor during your short AFK are hopefully slim. From the perspective of the intentional “bot” AFK type of player, they would still be able to leech a few times, but after all armor was broken, they’d be stuck at the downed screen with a message something like “All your armor is broken and you are unrevivable” with the option to waypoint out.

From the perspective of the other players, if someone went down with all armor broken, their corpse would not be able to be interacted with, and it would just fade away after a few seconds, similar to how an enemy corpse fades away after a few seconds. An unrevivable (and thus invisible) player would not count toward event scaling.

This suggestion is provided only in the context of PvE.

This is a really interesting concept. I can’t really think of any major problems this would create and I agree with the advantages that you’ve outlined.

The only minor problem that I can think of is that it could negatively impact new players who aren’t familiar with armour repairs or regularly obtaining waypoints. If this was a problem, I’m sure A-net could change it so that this wouldn’t affect starter areas or players under 80.

+1 for this idea.

Though I do think that there should be some sort of tutorial for it if it were implemented.

Miss Lana.5276:

+1 for this idea.

Though I do think that there should be some sort of tutorial for it if it were implemented.

Why? Just put it with the info about repairing your gear and be done with it. Why accomodate people who are intentionally exploiting the system?

Overall, I like the idea.
+1

I’m not against the idea. I’ve never had my armor broken.

Question is: what do you do about fractals? I’ve had my guildies break their armor in fractals and die. :S No waypoints exist in fractals.

Red Queen.7915:

Miss Lana.5276:

+1 for this idea.

Though I do think that there should be some sort of tutorial for it if it were implemented.

Why? Just put it with the info about repairing your gear and be done with it. Why accomodate people who are intentionally exploiting the system?

Overall, I like the idea.
+1

Tutorials are now accommodating people who are exploiting the system? Tell me how that works.

AegisRunestone.8672:

I’m not against the idea. I’ve never had my armor broken.

Question is: what do you do about fractals? I’ve had my guildies break their armor in fractals and die. :S No waypoints exist in fractals.

Could still have the checkpoint prompt.

Wondrouswall.7169:

AegisRunestone.8672:

I’m not against the idea. I’ve never had my armor broken.

Question is: what do you do about fractals? I’ve had my guildies break their armor in fractals and die. :S No waypoints exist in fractals.

Could still have the checkpoint prompt.

That would work.

I support the overall idea (although, as others have suggested, I hope it is implemented with some sort of tutorial and/or pop-up explanation).

This is the first idea I’ve seen that allows for the possibility that not everyone who is AFK is intentionally leeching. At the same time, it also finds a way to reduce any upscaling that can be caused by event non-participants.

I remain convinced, however, that AFKers are almost never the cause of event failure. Still, regardless of whether AFKers matter, they are a constant source of divisiveness and it would be good to neutralize this as even a theoretical issue.

(Of course, some AFKers will find a way to make use of their 218 repair canisters. Fortunately, those will eventually run out.)

Miss Lana.5276:

Red Queen.7915:

Miss Lana.5276:

+1 for this idea.

Though I do think that there should be some sort of tutorial for it if it were implemented.

Why? Just put it with the info about repairing your gear and be done with it. Why accomodate people who are intentionally exploiting the system?

Overall, I like the idea.
+1

Tutorials are now accommodating people who are exploiting the system? Tell me how that works.

I was reading this as adding an extra tutorial for anyone in endgame doing something like exploiting SW for long enough to end up in this state. Which would be very much accomodating them.

If this was meant as an addition to what’s already there, sorry, I completely missed that point. It’s late, and our football team is losing to England, I’m a little preoccupied ._.

AegisRunestone.8672:

I’m not against the idea. I’ve never had my armor broken.

Question is: what do you do about fractals? I’ve had my guildies break their armor in fractals and die. :S No waypoints exist in fractals.

Exit to Character Select→ go back to same character→ repair armor while in LA→ hop back into fractal

this doesn’t solve the scaling problem.

the person is still AFK.
the character is still inside the range and still scales the fight up.

[suggestion]
a better solution is to add code to the scaling to check for actions taken by those within proximity of the fight. if no actions have been taken in over 10 seconds, (no keyboard or mouse input) then the character no longer scales the fight. (in other words, the character doesn’t count in scaling up the fight)

as soon as any action is taken (including movement, jumping, skill usage) within the range threshold of the event, then the character scales the fight accordingly.

[pros]
~ people can AFK without scaling the fight: no more griefing
~ since dead player-characters will de-scale the fight after 10 seconds of inactivity, they will not be able to grief the fight either.
~ map chat toxicity will go away. (no more “IF YOU’RE DEAD, THEN WAYPOINT [insert deragatory words here]”)
~ GMs will have to deal with fewer “verbal abuse” reports
~ this would this would make the game more friendly to newer players who don’t know about hidden mechanics like “proximity to an event scales the event up or down”

[cons]
~ players who get their jollies from griefing others this way will no longer be able to do so.
~ players who get their jollies from griefing others will try to find other ways to grief, since this way will have been removed from the game

Interesting idea. I would be for this type of behavior if implemented properly.

The only thing that comes to my mind right away as a possible method for circumventing the broken armor check would be that a perma-AFK player could unequip all of their armor prior to leeching so they wouldn’t be wearing any armor to then get broken that would lock them out of being able to be revived. It may be possible for a character to still have enough stats even without armor that would allow them to get event credit via their auto-attack still doing enough damage. I’m sure it would need to be evaluated and configured to take this scenario into account were this type of behavior penalty to be implemented.

I am also entirely for what Forgotten Legend has outlined.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

this doesn’t solve the scaling problem.

Normally it wouldn’t, but that’s what I’d meant by the sentence below – in other words event scaling algorithms would need to account for the new “unrevivable” state and not include it in event scaling.

Orion Templar.4589:

An unrevivable (and thus invisible) player would not count toward event scaling.

StinVec.3621:

a possible method for circumventing the broken armor check would be that a perma-AFK player could unequip all of their armor prior to leeching so they wouldn’t be wearing any armor to then get broken that would lock them out of being able to be revived

That’s a good point – I hadn’t originally considered that scenario. I suppose a possible way to address that would be to have the unrevivable state not necessarily be tied to broken armor, but to getting defeated a certain amount of times in a row without active keyboard/mouse input. For example going down 10 times in a row without active input you’d still be revivable and this could account for the legitimate temporary AFK scenarios. But for the bot leecher who went down that 11th time, they’d become unrevivable, the corpse would disappear, and they’d be removed from any local event scaling algorithms.

That or they automatically get teleported to the nearest waypoint WITHOUT being revived (keeping the armor broken idea in mind). Still get the prompt to waypoint. Kinda like how if you log out in WvW you end up in LA or something dead.

No need for crazy scaling algorithms that might get wonky.

For dungeons, it would bypass it and send them to the beginning waypoint.

For Fractals, same thing. Beginning area where everyone first enters the fractal.

Also, they should be removed from any rewards they would obtain from the event if this were to happen to them. It wouldn’t affect people who died, WP, and tried to go back.

Not so fun if u spent 200g to craft it

Extreme.8350:

Not so fun if u spent 200g to craft it

Broken armor doesn’t need to be replaced. It can just be fixed. And as of late, fixing both broken and damaged armor is free.

What’s your issue here?

no, this will not only hit AFKers, but also casual players. I think it shows a very elitistic mindset to add even more difficulty to the game. It is almost unbearably hard as it is in PvE.

Also, dead players still scale events up :P just an FYI

Interesting idea, I do think it should be implemented as when there are afk players with no clothing visible I do no longer revive them, though other people still do.

Cross Tobias.2680:

Also, dead players still scale events up :P just an FYI

This has been pointed out numerous times in this thread.

Miss Lana.5276:

Extreme.8350:

Not so fun if u spent 200g to craft it

Broken armor doesn’t need to be replaced. It can just be fixed. And as of late, fixing both broken and damaged armor is free.

What’s your issue here?

Nvm
I missed this part

(and hopefully visit an armor repair station.)

but tbh since it dosen’t cost anything why have it -_-

Allthose methods are fine, but there’s a simple solution :

- reduce the time you can go afk in SW. period.

Whenever i want to go SW to farm or do events, i’m prepared. If i do need to go to the bathroom or do something else, i’m not away for more then 10 minutes.

If you’re in a party and you’re away from the zone for that amount of time, party members will boot you, so why won’t the game ? You either play the game or you don’t (afk), if you don’t, you get booted out. And 10 minutes is more then enuf time to take a small bathroom break or get some coffee or something.

Don’t make it complicated, just boot inactives after 10 minutes and your problem is solved. No need for a broken armor check.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

this doesn’t solve the scaling problem.

the person is still AFK.
the character is still inside the range and still scales the fight up.

[suggestion]
a better solution is to add code to the scaling to check for actions taken by those within proximity of the fight. if no actions have been taken in over 10 seconds, (no keyboard or mouse input) then the character no longer scales the fight. (in other words, the character doesn’t count in scaling up the fight)

as soon as any action is taken (including movement, jumping, skill usage) within the range threshold of the event, then the character scales the fight accordingly.

[pros]
~ people can AFK without scaling the fight: no more griefing
~ since dead player-characters will de-scale the fight after 10 seconds of inactivity, they will not be able to grief the fight either.
~ map chat toxicity will go away. (no more “IF YOU’RE DEAD, THEN WAYPOINT [insert deragatory words here]”)
~ GMs will have to deal with fewer “verbal abuse” reports
~ this would this would make the game more friendly to newer players who don’t know about hidden mechanics like “proximity to an event scales the event up or down”

[cons]
~ players who get their jollies from griefing others this way will no longer be able to do so.
~ players who get their jollies from griefing others will try to find other ways to grief, since this way will have been removed from the game

True, they still scale it up, and with 7 pieces needing to be damaged and then broken they have to die 14 times before his idea would kick in.
So maybe include something like you suggest where it stops counting them after a while, though they’ll just R into a corner or use a macro (or build a simple button pressing lego robot, people will go to great lengths to avoid working for what they want).

People being able to AFK freely is not a pro, it encourages leeching, which is the other half of the problem. People wanting to be rewarded for other peoples work.
The fact they scale up the event for everyone else is only half the problem.

Telling people to waypoint during an event is not “map chat toxicity”
In major events (i.e. teq) there is no time to rez dead people, you stop healing and more people die, and the event fails.
The fact so many people are perfectly fine sitting there scaling the event up intending to just leech rewards is not the fault of the commanders or others leading the event.
That doesn’t excuse verbal abuse, but the verbal abuse does not exonerate the leechers either.

It should definitely be better telegraphed that events scale up/down with your presence.
Maybe have some indicator to tell players whether they’re being counted or not?

one option would be to implement the 5 minute timer system that they use in WVW where if you’re not ressed within 5 minutes you get ressed at citadel, only make it the nearest available waypoint? that way afk’ers would be moved away from the area and not scale up the event. though with the speed that many bosses come down the timer may need to be lower than 5 minutes

zxstanyxz.8769:

one option would be to implement the 5 minute timer system that they use in WVW where if you’re not ressed within 5 minutes you get ressed at citadel, only make it the nearest available waypoint? that way afk’ers would be moved away from the area and not scale up the event. though with the speed that many bosses come down the timer may need to be lower than 5 minutes

This is the (near) perfect solution. No significant code changes involved so it is easy to implement. They could even make it so that the rez at the nearest waypoint is free of charge so there is some “benefit” for people who are AFK for a legit reason. Five minutes might be too long. 2-3 minutes should suffice. Would there be any drawbacks to doing this?

Ugg … AFKers. At least go somewhere safe and out of the way.

Yesterday one person went afk in a place where undead spawn an event frequently. Obviously someone that had been around based on his title so he should have known better. The first time I revived him not realizing he was afk. After that I decided to wear my dorito for a few minutes (even though I was still leveling to 80) so people would not make my mistaken assumption that he was the one there who knew what they were doing.

Algreg.3629:

no, this will not only hit AFKers, but also casual players. I think it shows a very elitistic mindset to add even more difficulty to the game. It is almost unbearably hard as it is in PvE.

Where are you PVEing that you regularly get broken armor? As soon as anything in my armor gets even dented I stop at the next armor repair spot. I think I have had broken armor twice and those were probably fighting bosses and such.

telling people to WP when dead isn’t toxic…. it’s what comes afterward… the toxic part is people start name calling after a failed attempt to kill a champ. ie “we failed because these idiots / scrubs / nubs refused to waypoint just so they could save 2 silver” accusations.

being yelled at because of a game feature that is not explained anywhere in game is toxic. being called an idiot, scrub, noob, etc is the very definition of verbal abuse. being blamed for causing a 100+ player event to fail is also verbal abuse.

i witnessed one commander in silverwastes start calling out specific players because it took them longer than 5 seconds to waypoint out after a champ wolf killed them.

that sort of verbal abuse wouldn’t happen if events downscaled after 10 seconds of inactivity. (no movement or skill usage, including death)

PS: i completely understand the logic and reasoning behind telling people to waypoint, and the same logic and reasoning behind wanting something to be done to fix the problem. the trouble is, the root problem is still the same, inactive characters still upscale the event. this causes map chat toxicity. this also causes people to make suggestions to punish players without explaining why they’re being punished, because the event scaling mechanics are never explained by Anet in game.

this idea is good, it works, although i wonder if they will just make their afk bots go fix their armor again and walk back to the location, it doesnt seem that hard compare to the wvw bots ive seen running around

Algreg.3629:

no, this will not only hit AFKers, but also casual players. I think it shows a very elitistic mindset to add even more difficulty to the game. It is almost unbearably hard as it is in PvE.

Wut..
What exactly is so incredibely hard about walking up to an armor repair merchant, press the repair button and get FREE repairs?

I repair my armor as soons as there is even a dent lol. I never even have all of my armor damaged, let alone all of it broken.

I like it. Good idea.

It’s a great idea. People arguing that it will affect casual players… If their gear gets that broken and they have not figured out they need to head to a repair npc, this mechanic will make it more likely that they will question why they can’t get rez’d and therefore figure out their gear is broken and they need to repair.