Guild Wars 2

I didn’t really do a back check on how good these were for the Guardian profession, but I bought one anyway.

While I have no hurries to get Ascended items I ’’really’’ need, I just wonder what you people think of these Ascended items with all stats.

I bought the Celestial Sigil, which is an accessory.

So, any opinions on the All stats Ascended items?

Initially they were the only way to get healingp power and So I used them. However i felt kind of a waste to have condition damage on my build so I got a new one with the new stats. Lost the toughness but gained more Vit.

The difference between the stats is I think 20 points. That counts if you are playing he max min game. However they have great all around stats.

Alot of people say +All Stat gear is rubbish. I play with +All Stat fully ascended gear. Its your choice.

@OP – A lot of people hate on the +All Stat gear (Celestial stuff), however if your build calls for that then go ahead and use it, a lot of the times a Jack-of-all-trades can be sooo much better then a Trinity-Focused build, it just depends on the build/situation. Play what you want and don’t take others opinions of your build too much to heart.

It’s the worst gear in the game. You’re not invited to groups because you can do everything mediocrely. You’re brought into a group because you specialize in a way that pushes the group forward and helps round out weaknesses or reinforce strengths. That’s how RPGs work.

From a game design standpoint, I don’t think it should be in at all. It’s too tempting for less knowledgeable players.

I use it on my jewel slots for a few reasons:

1) I got lots of armor sets on my engie so switching between them makes it less of a hassle since I don’t feel like I have to switch out accessories too

2) Engies are basically hybrids no matter what weapon you take so no stat bonuses ever go to waste.

3) Celestial gives overall slightly higher stat total than other types, plus free magic find

Lopez.7369:

It’s the worst gear in the game. You’re not invited to groups because you can do everything mediocrely. You’re brought into a group because you specialize in a way that pushes the group forward and helps round out weaknesses or reinforce strengths. That’s how RPGs work.

From a game design standpoint, I don’t think it should be in at all. It’s too tempting for less knowledgeable players.

So question then…is damage the most value-able resource?

I think they work pretty good on an Elementalist. One of the few classes that use a lot of the stats. Yes its not as good as getting multiple sets to pertain to every scenario if you are min/maxing. But since they only exist for accessory/jewelry slots I think they don’t hinder a all-around player that much.

As for a guardian I don’t think its a totally bad choice. I don’t know much about guardians but I’ve heard of a few who praise celestial stats for them as well.

I don’t think I’d ever roll Celestial gear/runes. But as accessories I say they can be plausible at least. But if you use it in everything then I think it really starts to hurt you.

Some interesting theorycrafting here about Celestial gear if you want a read:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1bxscy/celestial_gear_a_comparison/

Celestial anything is bad. Stop using it.

I run a feedback build on my mesmer. This means I have built vitality/healing via traits. I run soldier’s gear for this because stacking health is more effective when you add in some toughness as well. Mesmer’s best weapon is the GS, which is primarily power based. No matter what weapon you are using, you will have your shatters, which are a required part of combat if you expect to do well with a mesmer. Shatters are great at inflicting confusion, and putting trait points into reducing shatter recharge gives you condition damage as well as one of the best traits for fighting players: Illusory Persona. Also 5 points in the mesmer crit trait line will allow you to gain vigor whenever you crit, which is priceless. I’ve played around a lot with this build. It’s capable of holding its own 1v1 as well as providing excellent support in WvW.

This build uses everything, so Celesital gear is perfect for it. All-stat gear is far from useless. Mesmer builds/traits build well off each other. I can’t speak for other professions, and until you can, you should not generalize about an item’s usefulness.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with All-Stat/Celestial gear. People saying they are awful and bad (Lehova.9518 and Lopez.7369, to name a few in this thread) are either ignorant or trolling (I’m inclined to believe the former). Celestial gear provides on average 20% more statpoints, and so long as you can make use of them, even a bit, its worth it..

I wear full valkyrie with divinity and ascended celestial trinkets on my thief, and am able to make use of all the stats nicely. I can still throw around 7-9k backstabs like a zerker thief, but ive got 17k health padded by a good amount of toughness. The precision is helpful because ive got no precision on my gear. I rely on the Hidden Killer trait (providing 100% crit from stealth) for my backstab crits, and i receive about 30% crit chance from traits and ~10% from my trinkets and runes. The condition damage gets used by my poison fields and bleeding from multiple skills, the healing power doesn’t matter much but it is helpful for sustain and Signet of Malice.

What im trying to get at is that the only reason you shouldnt get ascended celestial is if you are a complete min/maxer type or you will not use ~2 of the stats AT ALL. There is a _very_small difference in damage between zerker/ruby builds and ceslestial and if you can use the stats its a much better choice.

Let me ask you this: What would a generalist (celestial) do better than a specialist? In what situation would I want someone who uses celestial over someone who specializes in said task?

Why would I take a celestial player over a zerker player when I need dps?
Why would I take a celestial player over a carrion/rabid playerwhen I need a condition damage player?
Why would I take a celestial bunker over a soldier/cleric/knight bunker when I need a bunker?

In a world of specialists, generalists are useless as there is nothing they can do that a specialist cannot do better.

6/6 Divinity, all Celestial trinkets.

5k Bomb crits, 1.2k medpac heals, and almost 19k HP. #getlikeme

These are also nice for Rangers since you use pretty much every stat.

I think they have more use if you are in a dynamic environment (WvWvW) where you may not being playing the same “specialist” role every time so you get added flexibility with little cost.

But speed running COF, yeah, most will demand ask that you be a specialist.

The reason people hate them is because you can’t max/min your gear. Most people want to be all out dps or all out tanky.

I personally use x6 Divinity runes and 3 celestial trinkets on my guard. It’s great. Working on getting more.

And because I’m bored here’s a screenshot of my unbufffed stats.

Logic.2358:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with All-Stat/Celestial gear. People saying they are awful and bad (Lehova.9518 and Lopez.7369, to name a few in this thread) are either ignorant or trolling (I’m inclined to believe the former). Celestial gear provides on average 20% more statpoints, and so long as you can make use of them, even a bit, its worth it..

I wear full valkyrie with divinity and ascended celestial trinkets on my thief, and am able to make use of all the stats nicely. I can still throw around 7-9k backstabs like a zerker thief, but ive got 17k health padded by a good amount of toughness. The precision is helpful because ive got no precision on my gear. I rely on the Hidden Killer trait (providing 100% crit from stealth) for my backstab crits, and i receive about 30% crit chance from traits and ~10% from my trinkets and runes. The condition damage gets used by my poison fields and bleeding from multiple skills, the healing power doesn’t matter much but it is helpful for sustain and Signet of Malice.

What im trying to get at is that the only reason you shouldnt get ascended celestial is if you are a complete min/maxer type or you will not use ~2 of the stats AT ALL. There is a _very_small difference in damage between zerker/ruby builds and ceslestial and if you can use the stats its a much better choice.

I agree with Logic.2358.
Personally i use Celestial trinkets on proffessions that can use 5-6 of the 7 combat stats. Allthough i tend to do alot of WvW on my characters and in pvp scenarios full damage builds are easily punished if you solo roam. Sometimes i do mistakes and dont see the thief/warrior flanking me when im fighting 1v2 or 1v3.
The extra defensive stats give leeway to recatch your balance in such situations and gain control over the fight instead of dying to the burst.

So i use celestial trinkets on my guardian, mesmer and elementalist.
Fun bit of math: when you compare celestial to berserker you loose ~80power, 30prec and 2% crit dmg. Projectile reflects ignore your power but include your precision and crit damage to calculate reflected damage. So its a smaller dps loss if you are running a reflect heavy build on your guardian or mesmer for example.

I like them, some dont. Only reason to not take them for me is if i were to only speedrun with my characters – never pug at all – and never do wvw.

In pve the mob AI is blunt enough to avoid every bit of damage which makes zerker superior, otherwise celestial is a good choice.

i use all celestial rings, amulets, and earrings so i don’t have to change trinkets anytime i want to change weapon…

i still run dungeons, fractals, pve, and pvp, and not only nobody complained about me, but i do just great.
so if you like it, go for it, i’m very happy about this choice and as soon as i can get there i’ll have a set of armor full of runes of divinity. just to bother berserkers lovers ^^

I generally always like hybrid and balanced builds in whichever game I’m playing. As others have said, if your build can make use of most of those stats, then it very well may be what you’re looking for. My Guardian has full celestial ascended jewellery and I am very confident in that specific build.

When I am able to get ascended jewellery for my Mesmer it will most likely be a fair amount of celestial stats as well, as my Mesmer’s build also uses a lot of the stats (currently using a lot of Rampager stuff on the Mesmer now, and a bit more survivability is nice to have).

As for the arguments that generalists are always worse than specialists, in some cases the bunker build is not going to do much with his toy sword, and the all out damage build can be caught off guard, or miss their burst and their paper armour is not going to save them. I don’t know about you guys, but I look at damage builds as my lunch (unless they are thieves and they just run away).

But ummm, yes.. clearly celestial stats are so bad, so very bad, they obviously need to be buffed. Yes that’s it! Buff celestial stats.

ahahahah oh yes they need to be buffed^^

oh i’m a mesmer too, and celestial allow me to make some weapons not included in my build more efficient, and even if my weapon of choice are slightly less effective, i can be more versatile and basically not hopeless in situation that are completely new to me.

also i put the build to the test in pvp and i was worried everybody could wipe me and i couldn’t kill a rabbit… but actually i’m doing fine!

They’re excellent on Guardians and Elementalists, and pretty reasonable on several other characters.

Celestial gear is the best for splashing supplemental stats onto a character without giving up a whole lot of your primary stats. An Elementalist works really well with a combination of Rampager’s gear with Celestial trinkets, and a Guardian with a mix of Knight’s with Celestial, for example. In each case, the Celestial trinkets give you the touch of vitality you want to not die in one hit, and a decent amount of critical damage to make your precision pop, without sacrificing much from the core Power/Toughness or Power/Precision core of those classes.

I would not want to run 100% Celestial on anyone; virtually all classes benefit more from some stats than others. That said, with the way all stats grant linear returns, all but the most specialized of character builds will benefit from a few pieces of Celestial gear.

Archon.6481:

Let me ask you this: What would a generalist (celestial) do better than a specialist? In what situation would I want someone who uses celestial over someone who specializes in said task?

Why would I take a celestial player over a zerker player when I need dps?
Why would I take a celestial player over a carrion/rabid playerwhen I need a condition damage player?
Why would I take a celestial bunker over a soldier/cleric/knight bunker when I need a bunker?

In a world of specialists, generalists are useless as there is nothing they can do that a specialist cannot do better.

1. 5 celestial players combined will do better, number wise, than 5 specialized players.
2. If you only need zerkers, like for cof, only take them. Nobody is saying celestial does anything better than someone designed specifically for that role. But if you need multiple people to do multiple things, or if you are playing in PvE or WvW where there is less group structure, celestial wins (given that you can make use of the stats).

Min-max builds shine in certain situations and are absolute rubbish in others. Best example is zerker gear, which leads to downed players doing zero dps at many bosses.

Celestial on the other hand is master of none, which leads to extremely versatile characters. They add to dps, conditions and support with more stats than any other build.
In real life that’s the same. Most jobs rather have someone who can speak 5 languages mediocre than one flawlessly.

Agreed I don’t personally use celestial trinkets but they have a very strong place in the game, too many “zerker” fans out there who cannot play for crap.

Mind you as someone who runs fractals I don’t really have to deal with it much :P

(don’t get me wrong I have some zerker gear and a warrior devoted to full zerker cof runs now, but for the game itself outside of speedrunning the easiest dungeon in the entire game… no)

Celestial gear is min/maxed for a lot of characters. All-in one dimensional characters are just that, all-in characters – it may or may not be min-maxed depending on the design.

I think the problem is people don’t quite understand what min-maxing means. It’s not about having the most of X stat that you can. It’s about getting the most out of your build you can.

Now for some builds, for example Warrior DPS, they get the most bang for their buck from stacking as much in Power/Prec/Crit as possible. Why is this? because when it comes down to it the 3 stats multiply each other so the more you have of each the more each point in the other 2 does for you. (In other words, you put more points in precision, the more likely you are to Crit, therefore the more each point in crit damage does, and as criticals are based off the base damage of a weapon that it is affected by power, the more each point of power does).

When it comes to support builds min/maxing is not quite as simple. It’s not just a case of throwing all your points in 3 stats. It’s about maximising the amount you do. Vitality is about surviving spike damage. So if your min/maxing, you aim to have enough to survive most hits, but any more than that is wasted stats. Toughness is about mitigating damage. So your aiming to have enough Toughness to be the last one standing most of the time, but having any more of that is wasted stats. What’s the point of having enough to survive much longer than this. You will be taking all the bosses agro so probably won’t survive to kill it, your support so you won’t do enough damage to take it down in a reasonable amount of time. So personally if I’m min/maxing my support, I’m aiming to have just enough Vitality and just enough Toughness to do my job. Then where do the rest of the stats go, damage is good, taking down things quickly lowers the amount of damage they will do to you, and lowers the length of fights. Healing is good if your throwing out enough group healing to make it worthwhile. Conditions not bad if enough of your hits have a condition part, and preferably multiple types of damaging condition (which is why it’s more questionable on a Guardian).

SO the main point. Min/Maxing in case of support is not about choosing 3 stats and putting as much in them as possible.

This is where Celestial come in.

Pros: has 20% more stats
Cons: stats spread across the entire spectrum.

So when your Min/Maxing you have to ask does the Pro outweigh the Con. Now your probably going to need the Vit/Toughness in a support build and taking it in the Celestial Jewelery means you don’t have to take it elsewhere. Your also going to be able to take enough extra survivability, to get to the desired amount, in the rest of your equipment and traits that the Power/Prec/Crit is probably not going to be wasted either. So that leaves 2 out of the 7 stats (roughly 28% of the stats) unaccounted for the Condition and the Healing. So whether Celestial works in a min/maxed build really comes down to this, is the loss of that 8% stats from Surviability and Combat Damage to gain the 28% bonus to Condition/Healing worth it?

This comes down to rotation. As a boon support Elementalist, I’m throwing out a fair amount of conditions when I’m putting Might onto the team. I’m also throwing out a fair amount of Healing in the form of Regen and AoE heals. Therefore overall I think it’s worth it. Therefore for my build running Celestial Jewelery is Min/Maxed. I’m getting the most bonus for the least penalty I can.

I personally think on a Guardian it might not be worth it, and an Engineer it really depends on build (hell on a Ele it depends on build too.)

Ratty.5176:

This is where Celestial come in.

Pros: has 20% more stats
Cons: stats spread across the entire spectrum.

So when your Min/Maxing you have to ask does the Pro outweigh the Con. Now your probably going to need the Vit/Toughness in a support build and taking it in the Celestial Jewelery means you don’t have to take it elsewhere. Your also going to be able to take enough extra survivability, to get to the desired amount, in the rest of your equipment and traits that the Power/Prec/Crit is probably not going to be wasted either. So that leaves 2 out of the 7 stats (roughly 28% of the stats) unaccounted for the Condition and the Healing. So whether Celestial works in a min/maxed build really comes down to this, is the loss of that 8% stats from Surviability and Combat Damage to gain the 28% bonus to Condition/Healing worth it?

I’d like to think that certain stats are always useful. I wouldn’t leave home without a bit of toughness and vitality. Healing is literally always a useful stat. Same for power. The only ones that really depend on circumstances are boon/condition based stats. Still, if you neglect one, you still get a pretty good overall spread.

I bet you dollars to dimes, that a team wearing all celestial performs better overall than a team wearing any other stat. Sure, optimization works in some places, yet that’s where celestial comes in.
- in specialization cases you’re 30% less efficient than the optimal build
- in specialization cases you’re 100% more efficient than a bad build
- on average, you’re 20% more efficient than any other stat combo.

So for a person who doesn’t care about speedrunning and farming, celestial is one of the best stat combos possible, because all content can be done with it relatively efficient. Would I be wrong to claim that most people don’t care about such boring things?

Most people don’t care about perfect play, as long as they can finish the content at hand. Most people don’t want 10 gear sets for all the min-maxing in different dungeon paths. I don’t feel good with min-maxing, because every second in a spreadsheet, could be better spent ingame, having fun. I’m pretty sure most people rather play GW2.exe than GW2.xls

That doesn’t take away from the achievement of a perfect speedrun, but please, some people just don’t care and want a simple set with all stats.

Archon.6481:

Let me ask you this: What would a generalist (celestial) do better than a specialist? In what situation would I want someone who uses celestial over someone who specializes in said task?

Why would I take a celestial player over a zerker player when I need dps?
Why would I take a celestial player over a carrion/rabid playerwhen I need a condition damage player?
Why would I take a celestial bunker over a soldier/cleric/knight bunker when I need a bunker?

In a world of specialists, generalists are useless as there is nothing they can do that a specialist cannot do better.

Dead DPS does no DPS
A celestial condition build will do more damage alongside those conditions and lose minimal damage.
A celestial bunker will outdamage a soldier/cleric/knight bunker. A dead enemy does no damage.

In most builds you make use of EVERY stat in celestial. Everyone does damage so power, precision, crit, crit damage are all used. Everyone takekittens so defense and vitality are used. And everyone heals so healing power is used. Almost every single weaponset features conditions so even condition damage is used. That’s actually one of my major complaints on my necromancer, I would love to fully make use of my condition damage with all of my skills but 1/2 of them are either conditions that don’t do damage or they do direct damage.

90% of this game doesn’t require a specialist build. There are a few occasions where specialists are needed(CoF speed runs) and a lot of that comes from poor class balance. If Warriors didn’t do insane base damage, have heavy armor, and have the highest base health the CoF speed runs wouldn’t be possible. In fact in most cases a rounded build will be far better off because you can adapt to all situations should something outside of the plan happen. This is especially the case in WvW and it’s easy to see who specializes because the second they step foot outside that specialization they are canon fodder.

In conclusion, if all you want to do is 1 thing in GW2 and nothing else, celestial gear is bad. However if you like doing multiple dungeons, open world events, WvW, etc; Celestial gear is the better choice.

That’s a bit of an oversimplification, there are plenty of Weapon Sets that have VERY little to no condition damage, eg D/D Necro, GS LB Ranger, S/P Thief. There are also quite a few classes where Healing is just not amazingly useful, Thief for example where your doing no real group healing and your self heal is quite long. There are definitely classes where they will get far more out of stacking more Prec/Crit than getting some Condition/Healing.

Out of all 8 classes I have only one I run as full Celestial, and I’m very pro the stat combo in the right cases. But there are a lot of cases were it it not the best choice.

I’ve ran with a d/d ele commander in WvWvW and he had full celestial ascended gear and 6/6 divinity. He’s tanky, hard to kill and does lots of damage.

Curo.2483:

Archon.6481:

Let me ask you this: What would a generalist (celestial) do better than a specialist? In what situation would I want someone who uses celestial over someone who specializes in said task?

Why would I take a celestial player over a zerker player when I need dps?
Why would I take a celestial player over a carrion/rabid playerwhen I need a condition damage player?
Why would I take a celestial bunker over a soldier/cleric/knight bunker when I need a bunker?

In a world of specialists, generalists are useless as there is nothing they can do that a specialist cannot do better.

1. 5 celestial players combined will do better, number wise, than 5 specialized players.
2. If you only need zerkers, like for cof, only take them. Nobody is saying celestial does anything better than someone designed specifically for that role. But if you need multiple people to do multiple things, or if you are playing in PvE or WvW where there is less group structure, celestial wins (given that you can make use of the stats).

1. How so?
2. Give me one real, in-game situation where i would desire a skilled celestial player over a skilled zerker/rabid/carrion/knight/bunker player

Distaste.4801:

Dead DPS does no DPS
A celestial condition build will do more damage alongside those conditions and lose minimal damage.
A celestial bunker will outdamage a soldier/cleric/knight bunker. A dead enemy does no damage..

On celestial accessories you gain 38 of every stat. On other gear, its 91/60 primary/secondary. Thats a pretty big loss in damage if youre comparing to zerker. You still do less damage on a condition damage build since youre losing so much condi damage. And you still gain decent toughness/vit and prec/power with rabid/carrion

Why are you bunkering and caring about damage? I thought a build as a bunker to soak damage, not deal damage.

Your argument of “dead dps does no damage” is true until said player is good enough to not need defensive stats anymore because you’re good enough to not stand in red circles anymore.

As an Engi who changes builds often, Celestial Stat accessories are great. I can benefit from all of the stats so I find they add to my versatility. Plus, I like to add some group support into my play so extra healing power is a good thing, not to mention a bit of survivability. My armor/weapons are all Berserker/Rampager so having that extra vit/tough boost is nice.

Archon.6481:

Why are you bunkering and caring about damage? I thought a build as a bunker to soak damage, not deal damage.

Any Stat you put into survivability over what you need to do your job are wasted. If you can face tank a boss and survive any extra stats are better put in damage than even more survivability.

But generally I would say Celestial is more for support builds than tank builds. IE builds that put out healing and remain close to the fight to buff their team.

Celestial is also not brilliant for DPS builds. Due to the way Power/Prec/Crit stacks, your so much better of pushing more stats into these and maybe using a bit of Knights on Helm/Chest/Leggings if you need a bit more survivability than run Celestial.

Comes down to build really not every class has full benefits from going all Celestial many classes do though like Mesmers and Elementalist which use pretty much every stat. Although it will make u lack in some categories it makes up for other places.

It’s an jack of all trades master of none

It’s rubbish because you go from exotic to ascended just for that tiny percentage of stat gain, only to lose it to stuff like healing power and magic find. Specialize is the key. If I wanted to change builds every now and then, I’d rather prepare 4 sets of cheap exotic trinkets, each for a build, rather than invest in one jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none.

And then there’s the issue of jack of all trades “im a bit of everything” being worthless here. But that’s another topic.

Lopez.7369:

It’s the worst gear in the game. You’re not invited to groups because you can do everything mediocrely. You’re brought into a group because you specialize in a way that pushes the group forward and helps round out weaknesses or reinforce strengths. That’s how RPGs work.

From a game design standpoint, I don’t think it should be in at all. It’s too tempting for less knowledgeable players.

From a game design standpoint, there are certain profession (for example: Necro) with a certain build can benefit from all-stat equipments. Believe it or not, such necro build in a skillful player’s hand can easily out DPS full zerker warrior/thief (that is, if DPS is the only thing that you care).

In addition, a single all-state equipment may look bad. However, combination of six Divinity runes and accessroy/ring/amulet may not be as bad as you think.

Of course, this requires significant amount of in-game knowledge and understanding of gaming mechanism. It may be a bit difficult to understand for less knowledgeable players.

I’d imagine it’d work nice on a hybrid damage necro that uses scepter.

Then again, most of you forgot there’s such a profession, so I’ll leave it at that.

Of course, it’s much easier to stack damage and think one is pro.