Guild Wars 2

This has come up a lot recently, but rather than hijacking another topic to ask I thought I’d make a separate one.

Can anyone explain what other MMOs do that makes them more “alt friendly” and therefore makes creating alternate characters such an unpleasant process for some people in GW2?

I’m used to single player games where all your characters are totally separate, when you start a new one it’s like you’ve only just started the game, absolutely nothing carries over. So I’m used to the idea that when you create a new character you start at level 1, with no money and only basic equipment and have to gain everything again. Just the fact that I can share gold and some equipment is a novelty for me.

Based on what other players have said they expect here’s how I understand it works in other MMOs. Is this correct?

• Once you’ve gotten to the maximum level you can then create new characters already at that level.
• There is no such thing as soulbound gear, anything you acquire can be used by any character on your account.
• Any progress you’ve made with exploring the map (especially whatever the equivalent of way points are) carries over so new characters can instantly get to all the areas you’ve explored.
• All kinds of faction/area ranks, like WvW ranks or Fractal levels are unlocked account-wide.
• Equipment tiers, skills etc. are unlocked account-wide so once you’ve (for example) gotten one set of top-tier gear you can get as many as you like relatively quickly and easily.

And if any/all of that is correct does anyone know why Anet decided to do it differently? Did they ever explain?

With the exception of there being no souldbound gear, I’ve never played a game with the features you have listed here. Everything was character based in other games I played, except gear could be ‘stashed’ through an account stash or bank to equal-levelled alts.

I’m not really sure where all this “GW2 is anti-alt” or “alt unfriendly” comes from. I’ve played quite a few mmos and in comparison GW2 is pretty standard – not overly alt-friendly or unfriendly.

It has shared bank and currency, which to me are the two most important things for characters with alts.

In fact in terms of being ‘friendlier’ the only thing I can think of is some mmos give an exp bonus for alts once you have a character to level cap, but that’s about it.

Edit: Just reread your post. Of that list the only thing I’d choose to add in game is the map completion. As for finding any of that stuff in other mmos – not of the 10+ I’ve played!

Not sure most other MMORPG’s from what I seen are less alt friendly as they are completely separate.

The main reason why people say GW2 is not alt friendly is due to laurels and how they are account wide. Daily and monthly achievements are also alt unfriendly as in other games they can be repeated by any number of characters.

WvW and Fractal ranks in GW2 will be account-wide soon.

Suddenflame.2601:

Not sure most other MMORPG’s from what I seen are less alt friendly as they are completely separate.

The main reason why people say GW2 is not alt friendly is due to laurels and how they are account wide. Daily and monthly achievements are also alt unfriendly as in other games they can be repeated by any number of characters.

WvW and Fractal ranks in GW2 will be account-wide soon.

I see the logic. However I’d draw the opposite conclusion from the way it is set up. I can start my dailies on my main and if I log into my alt I can finish them on there – the fact that they’re shared, to me, means they’re friendlier – it’s not doubling up on workload :P

In all other games i played it took longer to max level, it took longer to get better gear and that gear was by far worse than exotic compared to ascended. It was more like level 60 blue compared to ascended or whatever.

Also most items you found in dungeons were also bound on pickup and of course you had to roll for them with all others in your party each time.

One of the pros however is maybe that you always had to do all quests in every region to level, while here you can level wherever you want and skip all areas you don’t like and maybe powerlevel in your favourite area … and suddenly you feel like you are forced to grind .. or whatever.

Danikat.8537:

Based on what other players have said they expect here’s how I understand it works in other MMOs. Is this correct?

• Once you’ve gotten to the maximum level you can then create new characters already at that level.
• There is no such thing as soulbound gear, anything you acquire can be used by any character on your account.
• Any progress you’ve made with exploring the map (especially whatever the equivalent of way points are) carries over so new characters can instantly get to all the areas you’ve explored.
• All kinds of faction/area ranks, like WvW ranks or Fractal levels are unlocked account-wide.
• Equipment tiers, skills etc. are unlocked account-wide so once you’ve (for example) gotten one set of top-tier gear you can get as many as you like relatively quickly and easily.

From almost all the MMORPGs I’ve ever played (and I’ve played most big ones) none of the above exist as a whole in any game.

I don’t know of any game that allows you to create max level characters once you reach the cap once, cash shop insta leveling excluded, and pvp (as in GW1/GW2) excluded as well.

Some games don’t have soulbound gear at all, but I’ve mostly seen this in korean grinder games or games that are not heavily based on gear. In the majority of games, the Best in Slot gear is bound in some way or another, even in GW1, weapons had to be customised to be BiS (20% extra damage).

I don’t know of any game that you share exploration points with all your characters.

There are games with Account Bound Faction/Area ranks, but sometimes it’s not all of them, for example in GW1 there were both Account Bound and Character Bound faction ranks.

Once again, I don’t know of any game that works like this.

So no, the above list is false for the majority of video games out there.

Ren.5842:

Suddenflame.2601:

Not sure most other MMORPG’s from what I seen are less alt friendly as they are completely separate.

The main reason why people say GW2 is not alt friendly is due to laurels and how they are account wide. Daily and monthly achievements are also alt unfriendly as in other games they can be repeated by any number of characters.

WvW and Fractal ranks in GW2 will be account-wide soon.

I see the logic. However I’d draw the opposite conclusion from the way it is set up. I can start my dailies on my main and if I log into my alt I can finish them on there – the fact that they’re shared, to me, means they’re friendlier – it’s not doubling up on workload :P

The idea that the reward is given to the one that completes it is where people have the issue. People want the reward per character rather than per account. I agree with you however.

Beldin.5498:

Also most items you found in dungeons were also bound on pickup and of course you had to roll for them with all others in your party each time.

That’s the one thing I miss in GW2, I can understand how pugs don’t want to share their loot, but, guild/friend groups can benefit greatly from it. It’s badly needed to reduce the RNG dependence in this game.

maddoctor.2738:

Beldin.5498:

Also most items you found in dungeons were also bound on pickup and of course you had to roll for them with all others in your party each time.

That’s the one thing I miss in GW2, I can understand how pugs don’t want to share their loot, but, guild/friend groups can benefit greatly from it. It’s badly needed to reduce the RNG dependence in this game.

I hated it. Even with friends. For example i did a dungeon in Rise of Kunark 100 time because i wanted a special sword for my shadowknight .. however it never dropped .. or a rouge rolled higer or whatever .. then one day i played my healer instead .. and it dropped and i wasn’t even able to roll for it since healers can’t wear swords .. and yeah .. its also bind on pickup.

Ok, now I’m even more confused. If other MMOs handle alts basically the same way as GW2 does why do so many people act like it’s totally unacceptable to have to level and gear each alt independently?

I’d always assumed it was because they were used to other games that let you skip that.

Beldin.5498:

maddoctor.2738:

Beldin.5498:

Also most items you found in dungeons were also bound on pickup and of course you had to roll for them with all others in your party each time.

That’s the one thing I miss in GW2, I can understand how pugs don’t want to share their loot, but, guild/friend groups can benefit greatly from it. It’s badly needed to reduce the RNG dependence in this game.

I hated it. Even with friends. For example i did a dungeon in Rise of Kunark 100 time because i wanted a special sword for my shadowknight .. however it never dropped .. or a rouge rolled higer or whatever .. then one day i played my healer instead .. and it dropped and i wasn’t even able to roll for it since healers can’t wear swords .. and yeah .. its also bind on pickup.

I’ve made this example on another thread:
2 friends playing fractals, one is a Guardian with a fractal sword but wants a dagger for his Ele, the other is a Thief with 2 Fractal Daggers but wants a Sword for his Ranger. Final boss is beaten and player1 gets a Sword, player2 gets a Dagger and in this amazingly fair system they can’t switch them around.

Also, for your example: Since the sword was bound on pickup, once the rogues in your guild got it, you should’ve been next to get it, that’s the beauty of it, even if your rolls are horrible, you KNOW you will get your sword someday. For something like that to happen, you were either in a huge guild (taking different people in your 100 runs) OR you were doing it with total randoms.

Yes, that system doesn’t work well in PuGs but think of the benefits (my fractal skin example) for organised teams. And I’m only considering this for account bound items anyway, fractal rings/skins, ascended gear drops etc, so there is no profit to lose on the TP, if you don’t want them, give them away.

Danikat.8537:

Ok, now I’m even more confused. If other MMOs handle alts basically the same way as GW2 does why do so many people act like it’s totally unacceptable to have to level and gear each alt independently?

I’d always assumed it was because they were used to other games that let you skip that.

DW, many opinions on game forums get me confused – this being one of them! Best to sigh, shrug and move on sometimes

Danikat.8537:

Ok, now I’m even more confused. If other MMOs handle alts basically the same way as GW2 does why do so many people act like it’s totally unacceptable to have to level and gear each alt independently?

I’d always assumed it was because they were used to other games that let you skip that.

Because people are people

I’d consider GW2 to be pretty alt-friendly, personally. The one thing that really hinders alts is, as already mentioned, laurels. If it weren’t for those being extensively time-gated, alts would be a bit easier/faster to gear.

I’ve never played a game that made previously discovered maps and quests suddenly done on new characters, or one that let you make alts at max level, and in every game I’ve ever played, the majority of items (if not everything) were character-bound. In some games, cash shop items were character-bound as well. I would hate it if everything was character-bound here…grinding up a crapload of karma for every alt would be horrible.

Granted, the one thing I wish we could do per character is dailies/monthlies for laurels. Everything would still be time-gated, but we wouldn’t be forced to focus on only gearing up one character at a time.

maddoctor.2738:

Beldin.5498:

maddoctor.2738:

Beldin.5498:

Also most items you found in dungeons were also bound on pickup and of course you had to roll for them with all others in your party each time.

That’s the one thing I miss in GW2, I can understand how pugs don’t want to share their loot, but, guild/friend groups can benefit greatly from it. It’s badly needed to reduce the RNG dependence in this game.

I hated it. Even with friends. For example i did a dungeon in Rise of Kunark 100 time because i wanted a special sword for my shadowknight .. however it never dropped .. or a rouge rolled higer or whatever .. then one day i played my healer instead .. and it dropped and i wasn’t even able to roll for it since healers can’t wear swords .. and yeah .. its also bind on pickup.

I’ve made this example on another thread:
2 friends playing fractals, one is a Guardian with a fractal sword but wants a dagger for his Ele, the other is a Thief with 2 Fractal Daggers but wants a Sword for his Ranger. Final boss is beaten and player1 gets a Sword, player2 gets a Dagger and in this amazingly fair system they can’t switch them around.

Also, for your example: Since the sword was bound on pickup, once the rogues in your guild got it, you should’ve been next to get it, that’s the beauty of it, even if your rolls are horrible, you KNOW you will get your sword someday. For something like that to happen, you were either in a huge guild (taking different people in your 100 runs) OR you were doing it with total randoms.

Yes, that system doesn’t work well in PuGs but think of the benefits (my fractal skin example) for organised teams. And I’m only considering this for account bound items anyway, fractal rings/skins, ascended gear drops etc, so there is no profit to lose on the TP, if you don’t want them, give them away.

It was not a huge guild, but some people often play alts or simply have bad luck on RNG .. and no .. i never ever got that sword after running that dungeon 2-3 times a week for over 6 months.

I saw people complaining about gw2 not being alt friendly after the dungeon rewards got account bound. Before that you could farm all the tokens you needed from a dungeon to gear up an alt much faster, you only had to switch characters at the end of the run to get the 60 tokens plus xp, after the changes it got much slower to farm tokens from one dungeon.

You could also farm world bosses on different characters with that system. Then they introduced wvw ranks that are character bound, which made alts less desirable to play in wvw. In other mmos you have an wardrobe system, where you can put the skins you purchased to be used on any character at any time, without consuming or transmuting or whatever.

Fractal reward level used to be character bound, but they changed that, but the ascended grinding is too time gated, making it too boring to try to gear up alts in full ascended stuff.

You can still farm worldbosses once per character per day for the dragonite and the boss chest.

Depends on the game you’re talking about. For many RPGs, you can pass gear freely between party members. (Dragon Age: Origins for example, Baldur’s Gate, etc…). To me, Guild Wars 2 feels more like that, rather than a single player experience. I have a team of characters, and only one can be present at any given time. (like forming a party of one).

From this perspective, the idea of soul bound gear makes absolutely no sense. The only reason to do it is to prolong the amount of time someone spends in game getting the gear.

IMO, guild wars 2 is not alt-friendly based simply on the fact that if Guild War 2 were the way it is now a year and a half ago, I would never have created an alt.

I wouldn’t mind seeing “Heirloom” gear (from WoW) come to GW2. Each armor piece gives +10% experience gain.

Nat.4029:

I wouldn’t mind seeing “Heirloom” gear (from WoW) come to GW2. Each armor piece gives +10% experience gain.

Then we need selectable primary and secondary superstats so that the heirloom gear gives us something like +100 to primary and +50 to secondary superstats .. like in Champions Online.

Beldin.5498:

Nat.4029:

I wouldn’t mind seeing “Heirloom” gear (from WoW) come to GW2. Each armor piece gives +10% experience gain.

Then we need selectable primary and secondary superstats so that the heirloom gear gives us something like +100 to primary and +50 to secondary superstats .. like in Champions Online.

And the gear levels with you… left that bit out.

Danikat.8537:

This has come up a lot recently, but rather than hijacking another topic to ask I thought I’d make a separate one.

Can anyone explain what other MMOs do that makes them more “alt friendly” and therefore makes creating alternate characters such an unpleasant process for some people in GW2?

I’m used to single player games where all your characters are totally separate, when you start a new one it’s like you’ve only just started the game, absolutely nothing carries over. So I’m used to the idea that when you create a new character you start at level 1, with no money and only basic equipment and have to gain everything again. Just the fact that I can share gold and some equipment is a novelty for me.

Based on what other players have said they expect here’s how I understand it works in other MMOs. Is this correct?

• Once you’ve gotten to the maximum level you can then create new characters already at that level.
• There is no such thing as soulbound gear, anything you acquire can be used by any character on your account.
• Any progress you’ve made with exploring the map (especially whatever the equivalent of way points are) carries over so new characters can instantly get to all the areas you’ve explored.
• All kinds of faction/area ranks, like WvW ranks or Fractal levels are unlocked account-wide.
• Equipment tiers, skills etc. are unlocked account-wide so once you’ve (for example) gotten one set of top-tier gear you can get as many as you like relatively quickly and easily.

And if any/all of that is correct does anyone know why Anet decided to do it differently? Did they ever explain?

I’ve played every mmo under the sun since the original EQ. I’ve never seen a mmo with those features.

Soulbound is mmo basics.
No mmo i’ve ever seen has let you auto level a toon to 80 except maybe WOW and that’s because of the massive list of expansions they’ve added at this point.

Gw2 gives you level 20 scrolls, you can buy levels in spvp. I don’t know how much easier they’re supposed to make it before they just give away level 80’s.

Gw2 is by far the most alt friendly mmo i’ve ever played in 12+ years of mmo gaming.