Guild Wars 2

I don’t understand all of the anger towards Anet at the minute.

This is an MMORPG. RPG games, since the dawn of time, have been about stats and vertical progression.

Anet has, from what I understand, introduced 1 end game tier dungeon, and items needed to progress in this dungeon, and everyone is acting like this is the death of the game.

Am I missing something? Surely you can choose not to do this dungeon? It is specifically aimed at those who want to grind, which is what the other 50% of the fanbase has been moaning about since launch.

This is meant to appease them, not alienate you. Why is this such a bad thing? I honestly don’t understand…

It is difficult to appease everyone in the player base considering everyone holds somewhat of a unique opinion. The argument against the ascended gear is that it adds a stat boost a very mild one but nonetheless a stat boost and players are afraid/angry that this will split the community into two.

Here are some of the suggestions I’ve seen that I personally agree with:

— Have Ascended and Legendary Gear have the same stats as Exotic Gear – the only difference being that the “higher tier” gear will have better cosmetics.

— Make the new gear be available in all avenues of the game: make them be craftable by the crafting professions, buyable thru Karma Vendors, barter/drop in WvWvW, be available for SPvP. Heck they can even make them drop off a chest at the end of jumping puzzles. The idea being you can get the gear no matter what type of player you are.

A lot of people bought Guild Wars 2 expecting it would be similar to Guild Wars. It took about 6 hours to get a char to max lvl in Guild Wars and another 5 hours to get max gear. Ascended gear/endless dungeon grinding is about as far from that concept as you can get.

This isn’t the case . RPGs are about story and character progression. In most RPG, outside the MMO space, you hit max level eventually. It wasn’t until EQ that MMORPGs became about gear and not some other character progression mechanic.

Slyder.9215:

Here are some of the suggestions I’ve seen that I personally agree with:

— Have Ascended and Legendary Gear have the same stats as Exotic Gear – the only difference being that the “higher tier” gear will have better cosmetics.

— Make the new gear be available in all avenues of the game: make them be craftable by the crafting professions, buyable thru Karma Vendors, barter/drop in WvWvW, be available for SPvP. Heck they can even make them drop off a chest at the end of jumping puzzles. The idea being you can get the gear no matter what type of player you are.

I like the first suggestion a lot basically solves most of the concerns presented by the players, assuming that the majority of players do not care for the stat boost.

While we’re at it:

— In the essence of horizontal progression, maybe have all the stat combinations (Berserker, Valkyrie, Carrion, Soldier and whatnot) available equally. As of now, not all of the stat combinations are available to craft. Some of them are specific to certain dungeon sets (that you have to grind to get).

i was about to ask a similar question.
from what i can gather it seems they have introduced some items that are slightly different to the ones in game at launch?
i don’t see how this can generate such hatred lol.
i came here from tsw and i played gw1 briefly and im loving gw2 atm.
im gonna treat this game like a single player game with some online bits and already i have had my monies worth.
so its all good imo.

i dunno I actually really liked this update, like the new dungeon is amazing like each fractal has a really distinct characteristic which is super cool. It does suck that the new gear has better stats but tbh it would only matter for ppl in fractals 10+ which is fairly hard to get to anyway unless you play hardcore in which case this new gear is great news

for more casual ppl the new gear isnt such a big deal as it only affects high lvl fractals and the stat boost is barely noticeable and Anet has said that they wont b introducing higher tier gear regularly so again not a huge deal,

as for the event, while I understand it did screw some ppl with D/Cs and stuff, they have repeatedly stated they are looking into a fix, so have some faith again u may not get everything but least they are trying and the new zone is alot of fun with high dmg hard mobs and stuff, the only thing i think they needed to fix was the fact that the event was so top heavy with the loot, tbh they should have dolled out loot at each stage of the event as each stage was really a huge task (funnily the easiest stage was actually killing him which was the bit that gave all the rewards) that and the strict one time only was a bit of a dodge move but again these things are there to be learnt from overall I think it was a great fun event with lots of content that has enriched the game as a whole

Southern Lord.7254:

I don’t understand all of the anger towards Anet at the minute.

This is an MMORPG. RPG games, since the dawn of time, have been about stats and vertical progression.

Anet has, from what I understand, introduced 1 end game tier dungeon, and items needed to progress in this dungeon, and everyone is acting like this is the death of the game.

Am I missing something? Surely you can choose not to do this dungeon? It is specifically aimed at those who want to grind, which is what the other 50% of the fanbase has been moaning about since launch.

This is meant to appease them, not alienate you. Why is this such a bad thing? I honestly don’t understand…

While I agree to a certain extent, RPGs are not defined by stat progression. RPG stands for role-playing game. No where in a rule book does say that an RPG needs to be designed with vertical scales, or even numbers for that matter.

flash.8432:

i was about to ask a similar question.
from what i can gather it seems they have introduced some items that are slightly different to the ones in game at launch?
i don’t see how this can generate such hatred lol.
i came here from tsw and i played gw1 briefly and im loving gw2 atm.
im gonna treat this game like a single player game with some online bits and already i have had my monies worth.
so its all good imo.

There are many players who love Guild Wars 2, and that’s okay. Guild Wars 2 is not a bad game.

However, many hardcore vets and players who come from other games are pretty let down by Guild Wars 2. These are usually the biggest fans and those who go on to buy collectables, posters, extra gems, extra items for their character, etc. It is generally a bad idea to alienate this playerbase.

People wanted the liberation of knowing that at some easily-obtainable point they would be done with the part of the game where they make the numbers go up, and the rest of the game would be a matter of learning to play the game more and more skillfully, using the tools given to you more and more efficiently, all without the meaningless illusion of “progress” provided by ever-escalating tiers of gear.

Guild Wars 1 was built on this philosophy, and never deviated from it in seven and a half years (there are weapons that were obtained on the first day that the GW1 servers went live that are exactly as powerful as the best weapons available today – I know, because I have one). All of the marketing and pre-release information for Guild Wars 2 featured the developers appearing to be even more enthusiastically in favour of this design ethic than they were in the first game (The (in)famous “Manifesto” video, the “Golden Rules of Guild Wars” article, and many, many other sources from the game’s lead designers). There was every reasonable expectation that this was a philosophy that they would hold to.

The announcement that there would be a new gear tier was sprung on the community with about three days notice before being put into the game. No attempt at gathering feedback was made, and no two-way communication existed – there is one developer post in that giant 10,000 reply thread, and it is completely logically inconsistent with the way the game had been designed up until that point. No clarification was given, at all. There is still nothing but abject silence from ArenaNet on the issue.

And there are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of very specific, very well-reasoned, constructive arguments on why this is a bad decision for the game, what sorts of things might be better alternatives, why it isn’t reasonable to suggest that this new direction will stop with this tier, or even how to accomplish the exact same design goals without compromising the soul of the game.

People have every right to be as upset as they are over these changes, and it is nothing but a good thing for the future of the game that people continue to try to make themselves heard.

Waffler.1257:

A lot of people bought Guild Wars 2 expecting it would be similar to Guild Wars. It took about 6 hours to get a char to max lvl in Guild Wars and another 5 hours to get max gear. Ascended gear/endless dungeon grinding is about as far from that concept as you can get.

Moreover, Anet profusely and widely advertised that GW2 would not have a gear grind – it is in their manifesto and interviews on youtube, and it has also appeared in abundant written interviews as well. Many people, myself included, bought the game (and have spent money in the game) specifically because of this fact. I repeat: I would not have bought the game if I knew this was just going to be another gear-grind game.

Now, just 3 months after release, they’ve done a complete backflip and are now committed to gear-grinding as a core part of the game. Moreover, given the amount of time this content has been in development, they have probably planned this all along.

By any measure, this is false and deceptive advertising, and they deserve the hatestorm they are getting.

Waffler.1257:

A lot of people bought Guild Wars 2 expecting it would be similar to Guild Wars. It took about 6 hours to get a char to max lvl in Guild Wars and another 5 hours to get max gear. Ascended gear/endless dungeon grinding is about as far from that concept as you can get.

And the beautiful part of this is that after you achieved it, it was just the beginning! You had an entire campaign to conquer. Back when there were no optimal builds, clearing a campaign took quite a while.

If ANET hadn’t promised that there wouldn’t be a gear grind, I wouldn’t have purchased GW2. They lied.
How do you respond to when you find out someone lied to you ?

On an internet forum, anger is the only response you will see quickly. Other options (large number of players leaving, summoning lawyers, etc) take time to be noticed.

Waffler.1257:

It took about 6 hours to get a char to max lvl in Guild Wars and another 5 hours to get max gear.

I am sorry but I can’t help to point out, this is just so not true, at least for a first time player without some veteran players’ help… Let’s not bend the facts here. The original Guild Wars while being good, is far from painless / stressless / no grinding to play. Don’t get me wrong, I love the original Guild Wars, but that doesn’t make it a better game than Guild Wars 2, in every way in my opinion.

The original Guild Wars release wasn’t that quick to level you up, that’s true. Only the last 25% of the campaign (not including Underworld, Fissure of Woe, etc) was actually true max-level content. To its credit, though, you were able to buy max-level armour basically as soon as you actually hit max level, and you never needed to upgrade again after that.

However, later expansions were a different story. Factions brought you to max level literally within two or three hours, and Nightfall was only a couple hours more than that (You ended up getting maxed-out armour at about the same time in each). In both cases, 80%+ of the campaign was at max level.

It’s kind of weird, given that, that in GW2, Cursed Shore was the only non-dungeon zone in the game meant exclusively for max-level characters – but that’s a bit off-topic for this thread.

planetaska.3290:

Waffler.1257:

It took about 6 hours to get a char to max lvl in Guild Wars and another 5 hours to get max gear.

I am sorry but I can’t help to point out, this is just so not true, at least for a first time player without some veteran players’ help… Let’s not bend the facts here. The original Guild Wars while being good, is far from painless / stressless / no grinding to play. Don’t get me wrong, I love the original Guild Wars, but that doesn’t make it a better game than Guild Wars 2, in every way in my opinion.

When I first got Factions I made a ritualist and got him to lvl 20 in 6 hours by doing the quest line. Maybe they nerfed the xp in the beginning areas for factions later on, but when it first came out it was incredibly easy to level up. Original campaign did take a bit longer as did nightfall, but I would say they were still 10 hours tops.

dimgl.4786:

Southern Lord.7254:

I don’t understand all of the anger towards Anet at the minute.

This is an MMORPG. RPG games, since the dawn of time, have been about stats and vertical progression.

Anet has, from what I understand, introduced 1 end game tier dungeon, and items needed to progress in this dungeon, and everyone is acting like this is the death of the game.

Am I missing something? Surely you can choose not to do this dungeon? It is specifically aimed at those who want to grind, which is what the other 50% of the fanbase has been moaning about since launch.

This is meant to appease them, not alienate you. Why is this such a bad thing? I honestly don’t understand…

While I agree to a certain extent, RPGs are not defined by stat progression. RPG stands for role-playing game. No where in a rule book does say that an RPG needs to be designed with vertical scales, or even numbers for that matter.

No, but every single RPG, video game or table-top, has had stats and progression. It is not defined by this, but it is a part of what the genre entails.

Southern Lord.7254:

This is an MMORPG. RPG games, since the dawn of time, have been about stats and vertical progression.

Anet has, from what I understand, introduced 1 end game tier dungeon, and items needed to progress in this dungeon, and everyone is acting like this is the death of the game.

Am I missing something? Surely you can choose not to do this dungeon? It is specifically aimed at those who want to grind, which is what the other 50% of the fanbase has been moaning about since launch.

This is meant to appease them, not alienate you. Why is this such a bad thing? I honestly don’t understand…

As stated, progression was quite a bit different in GW1. GW1 vets likely are reeling a bit at the different gearing philosophy prevalent in GW2.

Moving away from GW1 to “appease” players who weren’t used to that and were upset, if that is indeed a primary catalyst for doing it, is a pretty bad thing to do, doubly-so when press emphasized the GW-style characteristics this game would have.

It’s certainly not the death of the game or ruining everything ever forever, but it’s a bummer.

Southern Lord.7254:

No, but every single RPG, video game or table-top, has had stats and progression. It is not defined by this, but it is a part of what the genre entails.

“Every single RPG?” That hasn’t been true in the tabletop world for years now. Probably well over a decade.

Southern Lord.7254:

No, but every single RPG, video game or table-top, has had stats and progression. It is not defined by this, but it is a part of what the genre entails.

I take it you have never played Dread. It’s a table top RPG built for one off horror sessions. There is no advancement there.
Instead of dice, it uses a Jenga tower.

You’re missing a 209 page thread you could have posted your question in. Surprised this didn’t get moved.

To answer you question: Some of us either don’t like dungeons or have a very limited tolerance for them yet desire the best gear in order to do things like WvW. We are not pleased with this new setup, nor should we be.

Just a quick point. MMOs were not “always about gear grinding” and RPGs definitely weren’t.

Anyone who truly believes that is not old enough to know the truth behind it and only thinks about the current generation (which is about 10-12 years old).

In table top the constant gear grind is considered “munchkin” and is a bad word and looked down on by players and other DMs as the laziest way to run a game. Yet you WANT this in an MMORPG?

Get older and wiser please. Learn about the world and the games you play before making comments about the “it is what makes it blah blah blah”

@Snoring Sleepwalker.9073: Indie-gaming high-five!

Southern Lord.7254:

I don’t understand all of the anger towards Anet at the minute.

This is an MMORPG. RPG games, since the dawn of time, have been about stats and vertical progression.

Anet has, from what I understand, introduced 1 end game tier dungeon, and items needed to progress in this dungeon, and everyone is acting like this is the death of the game.

Am I missing something? Surely you can choose not to do this dungeon? It is specifically aimed at those who want to grind, which is what the other 50% of the fanbase has been moaning about since launch.

This is meant to appease them, not alienate you. Why is this such a bad thing? I honestly don’t understand…

I don’t get it either. Everything is sooo…dramatic, for lack of a better word. Its a computer game. Not the end of the world.

Don’t like Ascended gear…then don’t use it. There are 80 levels of content & 8 professions to explore. There is PvP, WvW, RP, personal story…and just having fun with friends.

I don’t care for dungeons, but the fact that there a lot of dungeons in this game doesn’t make me unhappy or want to quit. I just don’t include them in my play.

People tend to exaggerate changes made to the game to ridiculous proportions. It happens all the time in MMOs. Once the herd find something new to complain and write rants about being betrayed, this issue will be long forgotten(Like the mad kings chests).

Southern Lord.7254:

I don’t understand all of the anger towards Anet at the minute.

This is an MMORPG. RPG games, since the dawn of time, have been about stats and vertical progression.

Well, exactly. A lot of us got very excited that Anet promised something that was actually different from the same old same old that RPGs have delivered since, as you say, “the dawn of time”.

And then it turned out that what we get isn’t something different at all – it’s the same old same old. Hence the anger.

Don’t get me wrong – I don’t think that progression games are inherently bad or anything. I’ve enjoyed them plenty. But if you want to play that sort of game, there are dozens of them out there. If you wanted something different, there was GW2 and nothing else.

Now, there’s just nothing.

Yeah it’s odd how folks are being vocal and complaining about a change that was said to be introduced due to people being vocal and complaining…

People are whining because of their warped sense of entitlement. Anet has the right to change the game mechanics to their liking, and players have the right to stay or go. Like someone said above, if you don’t like the gear, don’t play the dungeon that requires it. Simple as that.

It’s the classic joke of an mmo. There was a huge outcry about no progression at endgame. Now that they added a bit of progression, there’s a huge outcry against changing the game mechanics.

You can’t please everyone, so its best to listen to the player base that matters the most. I think Anet can collect statistics on who plays regularly, what that player base wants far better than we can. And they adjust accordingly.

For some reason, people can’t come to terms with that. Remember the old axiom from Star Trek 2? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? It applies here.

Bottom line – people are upset whenever they feel their needs are not heard. Don’t worry about it, it will quiet down soon enough, and those people will sliver off to their holes, while the rest of us have fun.

slazzy.7309:

There was a huge outcry about no progression at endgame

Where was this outcry ?

Because I never saw it.

slazzy.7309:

People are whining because of their warped sense of entitlement. Anet has the right to change the game mechanics to their liking, and players have the right to stay or go. Like someone said above, if you don’t like the gear, don’t play the dungeon that requires it. Simple as that.

It’s the classic joke of an mmo. There was a huge outcry about no progression at endgame. Now that they added a bit of progression, there’s a huge outcry against changing the game mechanics.

You can’t please everyone, so its best to listen to the player base that matters the most. I think Anet can collect statistics on who plays regularly, what that player base wants far better than we can. And they adjust accordingly.

For some reason, people can’t come to terms with that. Remember the old axiom from Star Trek 2? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? It applies here.

Bottom line – people are upset whenever they feel their needs are not heard. Don’t worry about it, it will quiet down soon enough, and those people will sliver off to their holes, while the rest of us have fun.

It has nothing to do with a sense of “entitlement”. We paid for a game that was advertised, promoted, and “manifestoed” to be without a power-creep gear treadmill, and now that they have our money they’ve completely reversed the game philosophy.

If anyone had a sense of “entitlement”, it is those players that lobbied for ANET to change the core philosophy of the game against what has been stated for 5 years and which is already present in dozens of other MMOG titles currently on the market. To come into GW2 – which was supposed to be exactly “not” that kind of game – and beg and cajole the designers to change it to what every other game out there is, is entitlement beyond belief. Apparently, content locusts believe that every mmog should cater to their playstyle.

When I pay for something that is promised to be X, and sold and promoted to be X, and then is changed to “not-X”, it is not out of a sense of “entitlement” that I complain, but rather out of a fully justified sense of having been deceived by unethical people.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

slazzy.7309:

There was a huge outcry about no progression at endgame

Where was this outcry ?

Because I never saw it.

Really? Ok, I’ll take the troll bait. Warp back 2-3 weeks. All you saw was “no progression! We need progression! How can you have a game with no progression!”

:)

As I said before, you have only to thank yourselves for the mechanics changes.

Don’t piss in your bed and then cry when you wake up wet.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

slazzy.7309:

People are whining because of their warped sense of entitlement. Anet has the right to change the game mechanics to their liking, and players have the right to stay or go. Like someone said above, if you don’t like the gear, don’t play the dungeon that requires it. Simple as that.

It’s the classic joke of an mmo. There was a huge outcry about no progression at endgame. Now that they added a bit of progression, there’s a huge outcry against changing the game mechanics.

You can’t please everyone, so its best to listen to the player base that matters the most. I think Anet can collect statistics on who plays regularly, what that player base wants far better than we can. And they adjust accordingly.

For some reason, people can’t come to terms with that. Remember the old axiom from Star Trek 2? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? It applies here.

Bottom line – people are upset whenever they feel their needs are not heard. Don’t worry about it, it will quiet down soon enough, and those people will sliver off to their holes, while the rest of us have fun.

It has nothing to do with a sense of “entitlement”. We paid for a game that was advertised, promoted, and “manifestoed” to be without a power-creep gear treadmill, and now that they have our money they’ve completely reversed the game philosophy.

If anyone had a sense of “entitlement”, it is those players that lobbied for ANET to change the core philosophy of the game against what has been stated for 5 years and which is already present in dozens of other MMOG titles currently on the market. To come into GW2 – which was supposed to be exactly “not” that kind of game – and beg and cajole the designers to change it to what every other game out there is, is entitlement beyond belief. Apparently, content locusts believe that every mmog should cater to their playstyle.

When I pay for something that is promised to be X, and sold and promoted to be X, and then is changed to “not-X”, it is not out of a sense of “entitlement” that I complain, but rather out of a fully justified sense of having been deceived by unethical people.

Well, then you obviously don’t understand how MMO development works. Its a living, breathing development cycle that never ends. And it may change from its core mechanic. And maybe, just maybe you will read the ToS next time and realize that content may change at any time.

You agreed to it, whether you like it or not. If you don’t think so, then have the guts to form a class action lawsuit, because that’s what you are suggesting.

Put your money where your mouth is and do something about it, if you are so unsatisfied. Take the ToS to a lawyer and ask what your rights are. Then post it here. Then we will have a real conversation. Until that time, you aren’t saying anything.

TommyProvolone.3715:

People tend to exaggerate changes made to the game to ridiculous proportions. It happens all the time in MMOs. Once the herd find something new to complain and write rants about being betrayed, this issue will be long forgotten(Like the mad kings chests).

Yeah, like we’ve all “forgotten” about SWG-NGE, or the EVE Incarna expansion?

From http://news.softpedia.com/news/CCP-Admits-Failure-of-Incarna-Expansion-Will-Focus-on-Core-Gamers-238512.shtml

“CCP Admits Failure of Incarna Expansion, Will Focus on Core Gamers
When Incarna was originally envisioned, the developers at CCP saw it as a way to make the starting game experience more welcoming, allowing newcomers to create an avatar that could embody their character and only then introducing them to the nuances of space exploration and battle. But the established gamers who make up most of the EVE Online subscriber base saw this move as a betrayal of their trust and reacted badly to the changes made. CCP now says that it will not make the same mistake again and that it will always put the needs to long-term players before efforts to expand the appeal of the MMO.”

synk.6907:

As stated, progression was quite a bit different in GW1. GW1 vets likely are reeling a bit at the different gearing philosophy prevalent in GW2.

Moving away from GW1 to “appease” players who weren’t used to that and were upset, if that is indeed a primary catalyst for doing it, is a pretty bad thing to do, doubly-so when press emphasized the GW-style characteristics this game would have.

It’s certainly not the death of the game or ruining everything ever forever, but it’s a bummer.

Thanks for stating this.

A thing that people who support this change are missing is that many of us bought the game because it did not have “gear stat progression.” Some of us made cash shop purchases to support the game and its vision.

We spent money based on a well advertised core feature. Now they have changed the product. What do you call that?

I have used this example a few times. What if Call of Duty suddenly removed first person view? Suddenly penalized you for killing more than 2 players in a match? simply because there are customers that hate first person or getting killed all the time. If you love COD, how would you feel? How many COD fans do you think would continue playing that game?

This radical change is as bad as the above – a complete, unexpected radical change in the core product.

slazzy.7309:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

slazzy.7309:

People are whining because of their warped sense of entitlement. Anet has the right to change the game mechanics to their liking, and players have the right to stay or go. Like someone said above, if you don’t like the gear, don’t play the dungeon that requires it. Simple as that.

It’s the classic joke of an mmo. There was a huge outcry about no progression at endgame. Now that they added a bit of progression, there’s a huge outcry against changing the game mechanics.

You can’t please everyone, so its best to listen to the player base that matters the most. I think Anet can collect statistics on who plays regularly, what that player base wants far better than we can. And they adjust accordingly.

For some reason, people can’t come to terms with that. Remember the old axiom from Star Trek 2? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? It applies here.

Bottom line – people are upset whenever they feel their needs are not heard. Don’t worry about it, it will quiet down soon enough, and those people will sliver off to their holes, while the rest of us have fun.

It has nothing to do with a sense of “entitlement”. We paid for a game that was advertised, promoted, and “manifestoed” to be without a power-creep gear treadmill, and now that they have our money they’ve completely reversed the game philosophy.

If anyone had a sense of “entitlement”, it is those players that lobbied for ANET to change the core philosophy of the game against what has been stated for 5 years and which is already present in dozens of other MMOG titles currently on the market. To come into GW2 – which was supposed to be exactly “not” that kind of game – and beg and cajole the designers to change it to what every other game out there is, is entitlement beyond belief. Apparently, content locusts believe that every mmog should cater to their playstyle.

When I pay for something that is promised to be X, and sold and promoted to be X, and then is changed to “not-X”, it is not out of a sense of “entitlement” that I complain, but rather out of a fully justified sense of having been deceived by unethical people.

Well, then you obviously don’t understand how MMO development works. Its a living, breathing development cycle that never ends. And it may change from its core mechanic. And maybe, just maybe you will read the ToS next time and realize that content may change at any time.

You agreed to it, whether you like it or not. If you don’t think so, then have the guts to form a class action lawsuit, because that’s what you are suggesting.

Put your money where your mouth is and do something about it, if you are so unsatisfied. Take the ToS to a lawyer and ask what your rights are. Then post it here. Then we will have a real conversation. Until that time, you aren’t saying anything.

I know what I agreed to. That’s not the point; the point is that how I’m reacting is fully and reasonably justified. Just because something is written in the ToS doesn’t make what a developer does “right” or “ethical”. It just means they’ve covered their rears legally – nothing more. Just because what they did was legal doesn’t mean it was ethical, responsible, or sensible. It is not a sense of “entitlement” that leads reasonable person to expect a developer to adhere to a design philosophy after promoting it for 5 years. It’s a reasonable expectation – especially coupled with the fact that the company did just that very thing for 7 years with GW1.

Are you saying it is not my right to complain about such a turn of events? Are you saying that I shouldn’t voice my strenuous disagreement with this abandonment of core principles?

I live in America, and if I’m dissatisfied with my treatment at the hands of what I consider an unscrupulous business practice, I have the right to speak up, complain, and see if I can get them to make it right. I also have the right to go to amazon and write bad reviews, write critical blogs, make critical youtube videos, and do everything that is in my power legally to voice my displeasure at this.

slazzy.7309:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

slazzy.7309:

There was a huge outcry about no progression at endgame

Where was this outcry ?

Because I never saw it.

Really? Ok, I’ll take the troll bait. Warp back 2-3 weeks. All you saw was “no progression! We need progression! How can you have a game with no progression!”

I saw a few people complaining. But nothing that could be called an outcry. Nothing like the threadnaught with over 10 thousand posts.

If there was an outcry, I’d like you to prove it, by linking to large threads calling for progression

As I said before, you have only to thank yourselves for the mechanics changes.

Don’t piss in your bed and then cry when you wake up wet.

I notice you are assuming that people calling for stat progression are the same people complaining about it happening. What an odd assumption. Please prove it.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Are you saying it is not my right to complain about such a turn of events? Are you saying that I shouldn’t voice my strenuous disagreement with this abandonment of core principles?

I live in America, and if I’m dissatisfied with my treatment at the hands of what I consider an unscrupulous business practice, I have the right to speak up, complain, and see if I can get them to make it right. I also have the right to go to amazon and write bad reviews, write critical blogs, make critical youtube videos, and do everything that is in my power legally to voice my displeasure at this.

You feel entitled if you feel you deserve certain rights over and above the rights you agreed to. So what are you saying, the ToS that you agreed to is not enough, you feel an entitlement that you deserve something more than what the ToS states. Ethics? Do you know what those even are? So, again, if Anet states they can change the game anytime they desire, and you, the player, agree to it, when they change it they are being unethical. Wow. Your logic baffles me.

You can complain until your blue in the face. I’m just saying you have no right to splash a glass of milk on the floor and then complain when you step in it.

If you agreed to it, and you still complain, do you have a right? Sure you do? But that right is called entitlement, because you want more than promised.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

slazzy.7309:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

slazzy.7309:

There was a huge outcry about no progression at endgame

Where was this outcry ?

Because I never saw it.

Really? Ok, I’ll take the troll bait. Warp back 2-3 weeks. All you saw was “no progression! We need progression! How can you have a game with no progression!”

I saw a few people complaining. But nothing that could be called an outcry. Nothing like the threadnaught with over 10 thousand posts.

If there was an outcry, I’d like you to prove it, by linking to large threads calling for progression

As I said before, you have only to thank yourselves for the mechanics changes.

Don’t piss in your bed and then cry when you wake up wet.

I notice you are assuming that people calling for stat progression are the same people complaining about it happening. What an odd assumption. Please prove it.

There was a large number of posts arguing how this game would fail because there was no stat progression at end game. It went on for days. If you can’t find them, you’re lying. Am I calling you a liar, yes I most certainly am.

Ascended Gear goes against everything the Guild Wars we know and loved represented. The Lost Shores are an abomination and should be deleted.

Southern Lord.7254:

No, but every single RPG, video game or table-top, has had stats and progression.

Nope.

Stick to the MMORPG subgenre, otherwise you’re gonna get yourself into trouble.

Southern Lord.7254:

IThis is an MMORPG. RPG games, since the dawn of time, have been about stats and vertical progression.

And this is where GW2 devs for the past five years bodly claimed they were going to do it differently. For the first 2.5 months they did infact break the stereo typical most recycled design base ever and made something truely unique.

Last patch changed all that and has essentially become just like every other MMO out there. Problem is, other MMOs does it far better and there is no tricks in marketing to make you think other wise; you know what you are getting into from the beginning.

Not so in GW2 now.

Keep in mind this is only the tip of the iceberg; the flood gates have been open.

When you promise something to get sales then go back on it later on….that is called bait and switch. This could also be deemed as fraud.

Southern Lord.7254:

I don’t understand all of the anger towards Anet at the minute.

This is an MMORPG. RPG games, since the dawn of time, have been about stats and vertical progression.

Anet has, from what I understand, introduced 1 end game tier dungeon, and items needed to progress in this dungeon, and everyone is acting like this is the death of the game.

Am I missing something? Surely you can choose not to do this dungeon? It is specifically aimed at those who want to grind, which is what the other 50% of the fanbase has been moaning about since launch.

This is meant to appease them, not alienate you. Why is this such a bad thing? I honestly don’t understand…

So your argument is that new ideas are bad and games should never try to do anything different from before? Guess what, this game was sold as being different from other MMOs, and the lack of a gear grind or any power differentiation between those that grind and those that don’t was a large part of that. It was built upon the legacy of a game that while more lobby than MMO proved the viability of an obtainable gear plateau and horizontal progression.

And yes, let’s just chose to not play the hardest high-end content with the coolest (and now statistically best) rewards when there was already a distinct lack of any sort of challenge in the game. This is seriously one of the most narrow-minded arguments and yet one of the most spewed.

slazzy.7309:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

slazzy.7309:

There was a huge outcry about no progression at endgame

Where was this outcry ?

Because I never saw it.

Really? Ok, I’ll take the troll bait. Warp back 2-3 weeks. All you saw was “no progression! We need progression! How can you have a game with no progression!”

:)

As I said before, you have only to thank yourselves for the mechanics changes.

Don’t piss in your bed and then cry when you wake up wet.

Nope!

The complaint was lack of content at maximum level. How many zones are designed for lvl 80 characters? What % of the game world is relevant once you reach lvl 80?

The more vertical progression you have in a game, the smaller the % of content is relevant at any given power level. In this regard, vertical progression limits content and starts a downward spiral of grind.

slazzy.7309:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

slazzy.7309:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

slazzy.7309:

There was a huge outcry about no progression at endgame

Where was this outcry ?

Because I never saw it.

Really? Ok, I’ll take the troll bait. Warp back 2-3 weeks. All you saw was “no progression! We need progression! How can you have a game with no progression!”

I saw a few people complaining. But nothing that could be called an outcry. Nothing like the threadnaught with over 10 thousand posts.

If there was an outcry, I’d like you to prove it, by linking to large threads calling for progression

As I said before, you have only to thank yourselves for the mechanics changes.

Don’t piss in your bed and then cry when you wake up wet.

I notice you are assuming that people calling for stat progression are the same people complaining about it happening. What an odd assumption. Please prove it.

There was a large number of posts arguing how this game would fail because there was no stat progression at end game. It went on for days. If you can’t find them, you’re lying. Am I calling you a liar, yes I most certainly am.

Prove I’m lying by linking to that thread. Oh and make sure it was calling for stat progression, because I will read it.

Then prove your assumption by naming people who wanted progression, but are now whining about it. Or admit you were wrong when you made this comment:

As I said before, you have only to thank yourselves for the mechanics changes

Oh and jumping straight to calling me a liar, rather than just thinking I missed the thread ?
Insults don’t win you arguments.