The problem isn’t the game, it’s the players.
Yep.
Wrote about it on my first blog:
http://kichwas.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/guild-wars-2-a-rare-intrinsic-reward-based-mmo-or-why-loot-is-so-low/
The game was marketed as an intrinsic reward based game. Too many ON THE FORUMS are stuck in an extrinsic reward model – they were never the intended audience for this MMO though. No matter how hard ArenaNet tries to change the game to please them, the company does not understand their playstyle at a fundamental level and will never meet that bar.
But its attempts will annoy the people they actually made the game for: us intrinsic-reward model types.
Now I’m going to wait for somebody to post up something in reply to me that is an extrinsic reward that they claim is intrinsic, or an intrinsic reward they claim is extrinsic… because invariably people respond to these terms with no clue at all what they mean… :p
Because the game is mostly intrinsic is why I enjoyed the game so much.
Problem with intrinsic though is you get used to that reward unless you step back and look at it again with a fresh set of eyes. Those of us who know how to do that will continue to enjoy the game for years to come.
I would argue that a game needs both intrinsic and extrinsic to survive. ArenaNet is trying to improve the extrinsic rewards.
They will never really give some of the people what they want however because some want a rare extrinsic reward that they can only get by grinding confusing it with skill.
I didn’t make this post so you guys could play the blame game. I was merely hoping to have a discussion about a mindset being developed within this community.
It’s clear as day that rewards are set as a major issue among the lot of you. I want to know why rewards have to be such a priority. Why not aim at reworking replay value so people can have fun taking on missions without ever having a second thought about how they’ll be rewarded? Wouldn’t that be a better improvement? Imagine, end-game, people signing in because they actually want to fight the flame legion and not worry too much about tokens, gold or w/e.
I’m not suggesting we take away rewards. I’m simply wondering how such a grand MMO has withered down to greed.
Why does everybody think that when people say that they want rewards, they automatically mean items? A rewarding experience would be great, too. Something that isn’t “push f here and there” and is actually compelling? That would be a reward, too. New content that’s actually enjoyable to play, and is something that players want to do because it’s enjoyable not because it’s the newest thing on the list of achievements and there’s a carrot at the end. Carrot at the end should be a bonus.
….Unfortunatelly, MMORPGs are not good games….
You say this every chance you get. Why are you still playing if you are? Why bother logging in to a MMORPG forum to say you hate MMORPG’s?
Stick to single player games if they are so much more superior.
I didn’t make this post so you guys could play the blame game. I was merely hoping to have a discussion about a mindset being developed within this community.
It’s clear as day that rewards are set as a major issue among the lot of you. I want to know why rewards have to be such a priority. Why not aim at reworking replay value so people can have fun taking on missions without ever having a second thought about how they’ll be rewarded? Wouldn’t that be a better improvement? Imagine, end-game, people signing in because they actually want to fight the flame legion and not worry too much about tokens, gold or w/e.
I’m not suggesting we take away rewards. I’m simply wondering how such a grand MMO has withered down to greed.
Why does everybody think that when people say that they want rewards, they automatically mean items? A rewarding experience would be great, too. Something that isn’t “push f here and there” and is actually compelling? That would be a reward, too. New content that’s actually enjoyable to play, and is something that players want to do because it’s enjoyable not because it’s the newest thing on the list of achievements and there’s a carrot at the end. Carrot at the end should be a bonus.
There is plenty of that in the game. Sadly you just got used to it and can’t look at it with a fresh set of eyes.
Why does everybody think that when people say that they want rewards, they automatically mean items? A rewarding experience would be great, too. Something that isn’t “push f here and there” and is actually compelling? That would be a reward, too. New content that’s actually enjoyable to play, and is something that players want to do because it’s enjoyable not because it’s the newest thing on the list of achievements and there’s a carrot at the end. Carrot at the end should be a bonus.
Perhaps because there are a lot of rewarding experiences in the game. I seldom see people mention the fantastic views in the Shiverpeaks zones, the stark beauty of Ascalon, the conversations with and between NPCs, the hidden rooms and challenging jumping puzzles…
What do I see? Champions should drop better loot. High-level crafting mats don’t drop often enough. More rares/exotics. Why won’t a precursor to drop so they don’t have to buy it. On and on.
The reason I play is in the first paragraph. The complaints I see are the second, it’s not an assumption, it’s an observation.
I believe that the most desired change in guild wars 2 is the core combat mechanics. Maybe add in more combat choices or movement abilities besides dodging, (I’m hoping this new living story will cover that.) Also the combat could use some more strategy to it, especially the bosses, by that I mean maybe there could be soft spots or weaknesses on the dragons you need to aim for, or maybe more noticeable impacting attacks instead of gradually decreasing health. More interaction in your battles could help too. Being able to climb up a dragon or actually have to watch out for it’s legs would be amazing. My points can only really focus on the boss aspect of the game, but they CAN be implemented into the rest of the game as well, I hope for great things in guild wars 2.
Thank you
(edited by Jaws.1569)
Why does everybody think that when people say that they want rewards, they automatically mean items? A rewarding experience would be great, too. Something that isn’t “push f here and there” and is actually compelling? That would be a reward, too. New content that’s actually enjoyable to play, and is something that players want to do because it’s enjoyable not because it’s the newest thing on the list of achievements and there’s a carrot at the end. Carrot at the end should be a bonus.
Perhaps because there are a lot of rewarding experiences in the game. I seldom see people mention the fantastic views in the Shiverpeaks zones, the stark beauty of Ascalon, the conversations with and between NPCs, the hidden rooms and challenging jumping puzzles…
What do I see? Champions should drop better loot. High-level crafting mats don’t drop often enough. More rares/exotics. Why won’t a precursor to drop so they don’t have to buy it. On and on.
The reason I play is in the first paragraph. The complaints I see are the second, it’s not an assumption, it’s an observation.
Just because people don’t mention the fantastic views or such, does not mean they weren’t actually enjoyable and rewarding in the sense that it felt refreshing and good. The things you’re talking about with people complaining for better rewards is for content that has been in the game. In which case, I’m inclined to agree. If you expect players to continue doing the same old same old, they need an incentive.
Why does everybody think that when people say that they want rewards, they automatically mean items? A rewarding experience would be great, too. Something that isn’t “push f here and there” and is actually compelling? That would be a reward, too. New content that’s actually enjoyable to play, and is something that players want to do because it’s enjoyable not because it’s the newest thing on the list of achievements and there’s a carrot at the end. Carrot at the end should be a bonus.
Perhaps because there are a lot of rewarding experiences in the game. I seldom see people mention the fantastic views in the Shiverpeaks zones, the stark beauty of Ascalon, the conversations with and between NPCs, the hidden rooms and challenging jumping puzzles…
What do I see? Champions should drop better loot. High-level crafting mats don’t drop often enough. More rares/exotics. Why won’t a precursor to drop so they don’t have to buy it. On and on.
The reason I play is in the first paragraph. The complaints I see are the second, it’s not an assumption, it’s an observation.
There is no right and wrong here. You said it yourself…Your reward is the experience. Because someone else desires a different reward does not make them wrong.
I think Anet did a pretty good job of balancing the two at first. Grinders/Farmers had a clear path to their reward of choice…either shinnys or accumulation of wealth. Of course the ones wanting the “experience” still have that.
Grinders/Farmers are complaining because they have had their clear path to their reward virtually destroyed. With the general population coming to the conclusion that Anet has done so to force people to buy gems.
What if Anet decided to open whole new worlds of great wonder, far more beautiful than anything else they have created…only catch is that you have grind hundreds of mobs in Orr to gain access to it?
You say the players are the problem…well, maybe MMO’s are not for you, because well…they are generally played by…well…players. Players of different mindsets no less.
Just because people don’t mention the fantastic views or such, does not mean they weren’t actually enjoyable and rewarding in the sense that it felt refreshing and good. The things you’re talking about with people complaining for better rewards is for content that has been in the game. In which case, I’m inclined to agree. If you expect players to continue doing the same old same old, they need an incentive.
They aren’t asking for compelling experiences, they’re tossing kittens because they don’t like the loot. Specific complaints about the loot.
The game is designed so that if you get bored with it you can take a break and come back when there is something compelling to experience. And with the living story, those new experiences now come every two weeks.
You say the players are the problem…well, maybe MMO’s are not for you, because well…they are generally played by…well…players. Players of different mindsets no less.
I already know that. I wouldn’t bother logging in to WoW. But GW2 was made for players like me, and the ones who are disappointed with it want it to be more like a typical MMO. Players like me are happy because it’s not.
Just because people don’t mention the fantastic views or such, does not mean they weren’t actually enjoyable and rewarding in the sense that it felt refreshing and good. The things you’re talking about with people complaining for better rewards is for content that has been in the game. In which case, I’m inclined to agree. If you expect players to continue doing the same old same old, they need an incentive.
They aren’t asking for compelling experiences, they’re tossing kittens because they don’t like the loot. Specific complaints about the loot.
The game is designed so that if you get bored with it you can take a break and come back when there is something compelling to experience. And with the living story, those new experiences now come every two weeks.
Yes, but a lot of the living story is not compelling. Pushing “f” 300 times is not fun. Betting gold on Moa Races that you have no control over and no interaction with is not fun. Dragon Ball was pretty good, and I’ll give the team credit for MF and AR.
But anyway, there are plenty of people asking for better content that is more rewarding in terms of gameplay. Look at all the threads in the Living Story section complaining about how boring it is to push F. There were loads for weeks and weeks, and now ArenaNet stopped doing that with this latest Living Story update and a lot more people were satisfied with this past update.
Yes, but a lot of the living story is not compelling. Pushing “f” 300 times is not fun. Betting gold on Moa Races that you have no control over and no interaction with is not fun. Dragon Ball was pretty good, and I’ll give the team credit for MF and AR.
But anyway, there are plenty of people asking for better content that is more rewarding in terms of gameplay. Look at all the threads in the Living Story section complaining about how boring it is to push F. There were loads for weeks and weeks, and now ArenaNet stopped doing that with this latest Living Story update and a lot more people were satisfied with this past update.
It takes months to develop these things, you don’t post a request and next week it appears in the game – if this happens, it’s a coincidence. So congratulations, they have been listening, and you’re getting your more rewarding experiences. That’s how it works.
Yes, but a lot of the living story is not compelling. Pushing “f” 300 times is not fun. Betting gold on Moa Races that you have no control over and no interaction with is not fun. Dragon Ball was pretty good, and I’ll give the team credit for MF and AR.
But anyway, there are plenty of people asking for better content that is more rewarding in terms of gameplay. Look at all the threads in the Living Story section complaining about how boring it is to push F. There were loads for weeks and weeks, and now ArenaNet stopped doing that with this latest Living Story update and a lot more people were satisfied with this past update.
It takes months to develop these things, you don’t post a request and next week it appears in the game – if this happens, it’s a coincidence. So congratulations, they have been listening, and you’re getting your more rewarding experiences. That’s how it works.
I guess we were arguing, because you seem to have been offended. I was just explaining how people actually were requesting better and more interesting content, because you said that nobody was asking for that.
I guess we were arguing, because you seem to have been offended. I was just explaining how people actually were requesting better and more interesting content, because you said that nobody was asking for that.
It takes a lot more than that to offend me. I can only speak about my experiences and what I see. I don’t have time to read every thread on the forums, I mostly stick to General and read what catches my eye.
As far as meaningful experiences in the game, I have no problem with the game as it is, and I haven’t seen the complaints you have seen. I have only seen complaints about loot, and comments that the game is about more than shinies.
I guess we were arguing, because you seem to have been offended. I was just explaining how people actually were requesting better and more interesting content, because you said that nobody was asking for that.
It takes a lot more than that to offend me. I can only speak about my experiences and what I see. I don’t have time to read every thread on the forums, I mostly stick to General and read what catches my eye.
As far as meaningful experiences in the game, I have no problem with the game as it is, and I haven’t seen the complaints you have seen. I have only seen complaints about loot, and comments that the game is about more than shinies.
Well that’s good. I’ve got time to read through the forums, and there were plenty of complaints about how dull and grindy the Living Story was. Not that they needed bigger, shinier wings on their back, or anything of that sort. But that spamming “f” just wasn’t fun.
I am not going to find them and link you to them, but they are definitely there. I promise. So be glad knowing that there are people out there after more than just shinies.
I am not going to find them and link you to them, but they are definitely there. I promise. So be glad knowing that there are people out there after more than just shinies.
There’s one sitting next to me right now, but she doesn’t read the forums.
All I can say is I spent some time playing the game at launch to level 60. The entire time I played and invested hours of my time I felt like it was all for nothing. No matter how long I played nothing seperated me from any one else. An example of this is all level 60 gear is the same with just a slighlty different look and all level 80 gear is = to one another. I don’t play RPG’s to get a item that looks cooler just to find out its no more powerful then the last item I had. For me this defeats the purpose of investing time in this game because the reward for time spent is pretty much non existant.
Yes you can get titles, yes you can do PVP if you like it. Overall the PVE content is very lacking and thats the only aspect of the game that I intended to play. I tried pvp a few times and it was just not fun at all. If I want a big arena with teams I will go play something like Quake, COD, BF3, etc. The only pvp I ever enjoyed in a mmo was old school Ultima Online PVP where someone could be be in a OPEN WORLD dungeon killing a dragon and I sneak up behind him while he’s in there killing monsters and then kill him, take his loot, kill his monsters and take their loot too. This created a sense of risk to the game. The greater the risk then the greater the reward. If their is no risk in a game while I am questing or in a dungeon then the game looses its appeal to me very quickly.
Their has to be a consiquence to leaving a town with no group. The wilderness and dungeons should be a brutal place where only players who grp up, are careful, and keep an eye out around every corner survive. If you blindly leave a town you should expect to get destroyed! Dungeons should be huge and vast like the wilderness and all open world with no instances! PVP should be allowed in every zone with no such thing as a battleground or arena! Stealing should be a skill you can use to rob players. You should be allowed to do this in towns, but if guards see you then they all start rushing you to uphold the law. This makes it where doing criminal activities is not impossible in towns but, very difficult and the risk for doing so is greater like death by guards and potential to loose items by other players off your body.
Instanced dungeons, raids and battleground arena based PVP ruined all mmos for me! Point being all Dungeons & Raids need to be huge vast zones and all open world. PVP needs to be allowed anywhere at anytime. Now I do agree that certain policies need to be in place to prevent certain players from going gank crazy. Why you need a bounty system where if you kill a player or steal from them you are labeled criminal or murderer. This way every one knows to beware when they see you. Also the more players you kill the greater the bounty on your head. So if you do nothing but gank every player out there will be looking to kill you, turn in your head for a huge cash reward, and take your items on your body. What this does is create a risk to PVP where if you do it a lot everyone will be out for your bounty and you might loose good items too. This in itself would punishment enough for grief players.
Anything other then this style of MMO is just way too carebear for me to ever enjoy! That is why I play DAYZ, why I played Ultima Online before they made it Disney Land, and why I hope Archage stays true to hardcore MMO Players!
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