Guild Wars 2

Subscription-based MMOs usually give a free month with purchase, so immediately on release there is a tidal wave of players who rush through the game as fast as possible and complain that the game isn’t enough (or is too much) like WoW.

They flood the servers, then complain because they can’t get online fast enough because the servers are flooded. They complain there aren’t enough servers, when new servers open they complain because their buddy got stuck on the new server and can’t join the old server’s guild. They grind through the content like a starving man at a buffet then complain they ran out of things to do. They complain there aren’t enough players at max level, and then when the players get there they complain the newer players are noobs.

After 30 days, the credit card starts getting charged for the subscription fees, and like a cloud of locusts these players disappear into thin air. Server populations drop and all those new servers created to handle the overload are no longer necessary. Late-comers are stranded there and by the time they can move to a more populated server most of the players there are at max level so the new (old) server still seems underpopulated.

A minority of these locust-like players may remain because they have extra cash to afford a sub or don’t have a new game to go to. They harass players in game and post messages to the effect that the mass exodus means Game X is dead and will shut down shortly. They pretend to care about the game but don’t actually say anything constructive or even appear to care about building a communitiy within the game. They are just passing the time until Game Y is released so they can begin the process again.

I’ve seen this happen several times, in the last year or so several games have premiered and expanded. Rift, Cataclysm, SWTOR, TERA, The Secret World, GW2, MoP have been released and the Storm Legion expansion is coming in a few weeks. I don’t play WoW but I’ve tried several games on the list and they have all followed the same pattern.

The only exception with GW2 is that the game does not follow the subscription model, and so there is nothing pushing the locusts onward except the release of WoW’s and eventually Rift’s expansions. On the other hand, losing a chunk of belligerent and impossible to please players to another game doesn’t mean as much to Arenanet because they don’t rely on the sub fees to survive.

Not that it matters in this case because the majority of these players only pay for the box and cancel before the subscription fees kick in. So losing these players, whether they leave on their own or are encouraged to move on because of Arenanet’s actions, don’t make a dent in the long-range plans for GW2 or any other game.

You’re not fooling anyone. The game designers are a smart bunch, and they’ve been studying these trends for years. Yes, newcomers like Bioware make missteps and overestimate the effect their personal tweaks will have on the games and their players. But for the most part it is normal and expected that the game population will drop sharply around a month after launch, when the shiny begins to wear off and the ADHD crowd moves on to the next big thing.

It will be interesting to see the extent to which this happens to GW2, because there is nothing inherent to the game that really pushes these players onwards, once you buy the box you can come back to it a week, a month, a year later for no additional cost. The current drop is mostly due to MoP and will rebound when the shiny wears off there too. The handling of “farming” and “grinding” habits in the short term and long term may also have an effect in encouraging these players to move on, but I suspect it won’t be permanent. They’ll always have a free game to come back to between releases.

Ever consider that you are talking about a large number of people and making generalizations is silly?

Outstanding considerations, OP.

To add onto those facts, there is also to say that people get attached to their investments.
I.E. they will be unwilling to drop a game where they dropped 1 or more years worth of monthly fees for a new one.
I thin most of the complaints are just people trying to convince themselves GW2 is bad so they can go back to the game they invested in without feeling guilty they’re playing trash.
They brainwash themselves that everything else is worse than the poorly designed grindfest treadmill they have invested in.

The current drop isn’t owing to MoP.

I’ve never played WoW in my life and never intend to as I don’t socialize with children in RL, so I have no propensity to do it online.

I am leaving until these things are fixed:

1. Bugs. An odd bug is understandable, excusable even when it’s quickly and quietly cleared up. Scripting and coding is done by humans who make mistakes. We get that.

The amount and frequency of bugs that appear in this game outweigh anything I’ve seen.

It’s just not acceptable after spent millions on R&D, alpha and beta stages and coming from a big name developer. I won’t take this type of lackadasical attitude.

2. Bots will exist forever. They can make real money from the game. You’ll never change the moral standpoint of the person that buys gold, so there’s no point trying that. However to make your game a haven for bots seems to be bizarre. It’s like nothing is being done at all to combat it. The in-game mailing, in-game messages and bots filling up DE areas has to stop, which leads to this point….

3. DR is a joke and failed experiement. It was a failed experiment even before this game launched. SE tried it with FFXIV and it killed the game. It’s not a lie or some drama to prove a point, I watched it happen from inside that game.

The reason DR exists is to combat bots. It isn’t doing that. It’s punishing me. Stop punishing me for paying for the game and wanting to play it. It’s extremely counter-intuitive and a really odd move from a business wanting to make a profit.

So that’s just 3 points, but I could write more.

It’s not WoW causing the drop in players, it’s GW2 causing players to leave. It will continue to haemorrhage at an increasing an exponential rate until they decide to stop punishing and restricting legitimate players playing their game.

It’s a really really odd business strategy they have. How can we annoy all of our users? Our fanboys will still love us, but how can we really stick it to the newcomer or convert?

DR is the way to do it boys. DR and nothing else.

I have one word for you “Gem$” with out the sale of Gem$ Anet will shut this game down faster then you can blink your eye!

“Ever consider that you are talking about a large number of people and making generalizations is silly?”

I dabbled in anthropology in college, though it never really was a focus. Have you tried talking about a large number of people without making generalizations?

Soulwatcher.2604:

I have one word for you “Gem$” with out the sale of Gem$ Anet will shut this game down faster then you can blink your eye!

But the people I’m talking about refuse to loosen their grip on the credit card to pay a monthly fee. Why would they buy gems when they just want to pass the time until the next MMO release?

You’re talking about the Farmville crowd there, where a single “whale” spends enough to subsidize the game for thousands of free players. Arenanet only needs a small number of these players and they are not among the group I posted about.

tolunart.2095:

Soulwatcher.2604:

I have one word for you “Gem$” with out the sale of Gem$ Anet will shut this game down faster then you can blink your eye!

But the people I’m talking about refuse to loosen their grip on the credit card to pay a monthly fee. Why would they buy gems when they just want to pass the time until the next MMO release?

You’re talking about the Farmville crowd there, where a single “whale” spends enough to subsidize the game for thousands of free players. Arenanet only needs a small number of these players and they are not among the group I posted about.

I hate to break it to you they need more then a small amount to keep the game going and updated. If enough people don’t buy Gem$ then customer support, game development, and new expansions and your very own player experience will suffer!

Gohlar.3671:

Ever consider that you are talking about a large number of people and making generalizations is silly?

Wither or not it is a generalization… the evidence seems to be true. I have also seen this type of trend over the last decade. I blame it on the “Give it to me NOW” entitlist generation. Those that want an EASY button, and are unwilling to EARN what they get.

News flash… the customer is NOT always right. The idea that just because you spent some money on a game, the devs have to cator to your every whim is total BS. (when I say YOU, I am refering to gamers in general)

I am all for rewarding accomplishments. But todays gammer seems to think that just by logging in, that accomplishment deserves awards galore. Or they demand the devs to change the game to be more like game “X”. When they don’t get what they want they start trolling the forums, bashing other players in game for having fun etc.

It’s like they are throwing a perminate temper tantrum. Then once their social verbal abuse is satisfied they move on. But before they do they have to post one last QQ thread to tell everyone just how much they hated the game, and why you should to. Then they bash you one last time because you do not agree with their assesment.

I find this type of attention seeking a sign of a more deeply rooted mental imballance. Maybe they should seek some kind of professional help. After all it’s not the end of the world… it’s just a game.

Ronin.8095:

It’s a really really odd business strategy they have. How can we annoy all of our users? Our fanboys will still love us, but how can we really stick it to the newcomer or convert?

DR is the way to do it boys. DR and nothing else.

I’m well aware of your opinion towards DR from the dozens of threads about it. My take on it is that it is a temporary measure, perhaps too hastily implemented, to control the bleeding while they seek to stop gold farmers from stealing the accounts of unsupecting players.

It’s not the selling that’s the problem, like most criminals the gold sellers don’t care how many rules they break, or who they hurt. In the long run, losing thousands of paying customers because they spent $60 on the game only to lose their account to a hacker within a week will hurt more than chasing away the ADHD crowd by changing the way the game is played.

Also, I think it’s a matter of design philosophy. If you rushed to 80 to farm high-level mats and buy/create a legendary weapon within single-digit weeks of the playing the game, you’re doing it wrong, according to Arenanet developers. So they want to discourage this kind of play by making it more rewarding to explore the entire map whether before or after your toons are max level.

I intend to create a legendary weapon eventually, but I haven’t even started on that journey yet, and I’m not in any hurry to get there.

Soulwatcher.2604:

I have one word for you “Gem$” with out the sale of Gem$ Anet will shut this game down faster then you can blink your eye!

Except that because GW2 is B2P instead of F2P they’re not relying on the gem store as their primary source of income. GW1 went for several years without a cash shop at all, because the income came from selling boxed copies. (Helped by the relatively quick release of new campains.)

Which is good because the gem store is mostly novelty items and minor conviniences which (combined with the fact that you can buy gems with gold) means they’re unlikely to ever make a big profit from it. It’ll help sure, but it’s not going to keep the game running and I seriously doubt it was ever intended to.

There are some people that play through a game in 30 days or less just because that’s how they play any game, subscription or not (not to mention free pizza). The play, have a good time, and leave rather quietly, maybe some mild suggestions. They move on to the next game. Nothing wrong with that. It’s just how they play.

There’s another group of people that play that way, maybe ‘chasing’ those other people, because they see they’ve moved on, and don’t want to be “so 10 minutes ago”, so they leave. Sometimes they need to justify their actions, so they come out and post why the game will be dead in three and a half hours and we all lose for staying. Off they go.

Then there’s some people that just that really wanted to like the game, and don’t, and are a bit frustrated and post about their frustrations before they go. And sometimes we’re quick to lump them into the ‘never be happy’ group, but really they don’t habitually play like that, and that’s not terribly fair for them to have to listen to us assume they’re part of the “so 10 minutes ago” crowd.

And some people play the game, stay, really enjoy the game, and are vocal about specific problems they feel the game has. Some I agree with, others I don’t at all. I just cross my fingers that the devs listen the ‘right’ things and don’t change the game so much that it’s not what I bought and wanted to enjoy (like FFXIV 2.0).

At the end of the day, it’s all subjective, and everyone has their reasons for high praise and negative comments, and the differences in our posting styles (I’m a rambler) start to muddle the line between fanboys and hater/locusts, where some posts that that seem like a rant really have legitimate points, but only seem like a rant because that’s the poster’s style.

I don’t know. Lots of folks in the world.

This is my theory, but I could be entirely wrong:

GW2 has no sub.

When people get tired of sub games, they have to stop playing. If they don’t, they will be charged for the next 30 days.

If GW2 is on the computer of someone who gets tired of a sub-based game, they are, imo, going to log in for a little bit. It is between the release of a competitor and the rejoining of a member of the community that ANet needs to put out new content or new patches. That keeps people who come back feeling like there is something fresh.

GW2 will do swimmingly with it’s model. IMO, the only two MMOs that can justify a sub anymore are WoW (idk why people still play it) and Rift (hate or love the game, mad props to Trion for actually giving a crap about their players).

Ronin.8095:

snip

Bugs happen in other great games such as Skyrim (god skyrim is filled with bugs), but if you can’t be bothered to do the testing/reporting job then don’t play games upon launch.
After a couple months they are fixed, join by that point.

@Dan there is a HUGE difference between GW1 and GW2. GW1 was a peer to peer game which means some ones PC was hosting the game and sharing their bandwidth with other players.

GW2 on the other hand is a full fledged MMORPG which means Anet is hosting the game on their servers and using their bandwidth. The cost to maintain GW2 is at least 10x that of GW1 and that can not be maintained on B2P alone or they wouldnt have a cash shop!

Notebene:
I have no problem with constructive criticism. I welcome it. But seems to me alot of people do not understand what that is.

They think pointing out every flaw and complaining about it solves the problem. "Anet “X” is broken.. fix it NOW!"… This mentality is absolutely kitten

Point out flaws… yes but come up with a few viable solutions. Otherwise it comes across as trolling or whining, and gets mostly ignored.

We all know this game has a few issues. Even Anet has conceded to this fact. Anet has been very forthcomming on fixes and the like. The communication has been a blessing compaired to alot of other gamming companies that I have been apart of. (as a player ofcourse).

People need to realize, not everything can and will be fixed withing 1-24 hours. The game has only been out for 1 month today. So far this has been the smoothest launch for an MMORPG I have ever been apart of. And I have been apart of quite a few.

Anet has even posted a schedule for fixes and the like. Personally i wouldn’t of done this. Puts way to much stress on the dev team to make the deadlines. Beacuse we all know if something dosen’t happen on the day in question, the forums and ingame chat will be ablaze with troll spewing.

Yes i an a fan, but I am a realistic fan. Do we have some game issues… yes. Are they being worked on and fixed… for the most part yes. Will it ever be perfect… never. I can live with this.

Sorry to sound rude, but I think the OP is lost somewhere in one of his own orifices. There is no need for a clever or elaborate explanation for the trends he is observing.

1) Some people leave after their free month is up. There is nothing strange here. They didn’t enjoy the game enough to begin with.

2) Some people stay a few months beyond the free month but complain a lot. That’s because they want to stay in the game, but they feel it isn’t fulfilling their needs. SWToR was a great example of this for me. The released a game with loads of flaws, worked hard to patch in fixes but ultimately, who wants to pay subs for 6 months while they try to bring the game up a decent level of enjoyability. I will add to this, that even without paying subs, who wants to log into a game where it isn’t meeting their needs? You can always come back in 6 months and see if it is fixed, as long as the populations have not tanked completely.

3) Some people stay and don’t complain. Maybe the flaws in the game don’t bother them. Maybe they are not the complaining type. All games are flawed, particularly newly released MMOs.

I’m not sure how I stand with GW2 at the moment. I definitely feel my interested has waned over the last couple of weeks and a lot of that has to do with constantly running into stalled events, but I’m not quite at the point of leaving, and if the event engine gets sorted within the next couple of weeks the rest of the game may well get my vote.

WoW is a reserve for me, I will admit it. It’s uninspired and a little immature, but it’s a game where you can both PvE and PvP in teams and don’t have to worry too much about running into bugs while you do it. I’m seriously hoping I don’t have to find out whether pandas are as irritating as I think they will be.

Vorch.2985:

GW2 will do swimmingly with it’s model. IMO, the only two MMOs that can justify a sub anymore are WoW (idk why people still play it) and Rift (hate or love the game, mad props to Trion for actually giving a crap about their players).

Rift is a wonderful game, one of the best CRPGs I’ve ever played, single- or multiplayer, and the first game since the original Neverwinter Nights that I really could not put down. It’s also the only MMO I’ve maintained a subscription for, continuous since the day it opened to the public until April 2013. I’ve taken breaks to try other games like SWTOR and TERA but found Rift to be more to my liking. The rate of bug fixes and content releases is such that I don’t ever regret paying a monthly fee even if I don’t log in for a few weeks.

I do have to admit, though, as a casual player the pace of the game and lack of kill and loot stealing in GW2 is spoiling me to the point where I’m not sure about going back to Rift for a while.

If the “grinder” is frustrated by the way GW2 plays out, I sympathize, but I feel like someone wrote the game just for me. If I were to organize a project of this magnitude, it would turn out very similar though I am a little disappointed that the DEs don’t have a more lasting effect on the world. I’d write out subplots of DE chains that last anywhere from hours to weeks and make semipermanent changes to the world. But that’s just me…

tolunart.2095:

They complain there aren’t enough players at max level, and then when the players get there they complain the newer players are noobs.

Well excuse us for not being 14 years old and on summer vacation lol!

Soulwatcher.2604:

tolunart.2095:

Soulwatcher.2604:

I have one word for you “Gem$” with out the sale of Gem$ Anet will shut this game down faster then you can blink your eye!

But the people I’m talking about refuse to loosen their grip on the credit card to pay a monthly fee. Why would they buy gems when they just want to pass the time until the next MMO release?

You’re talking about the Farmville crowd there, where a single “whale” spends enough to subsidize the game for thousands of free players. Arenanet only needs a small number of these players and they are not among the group I posted about.

I hate to break it to you they need more then a small amount to keep the game going and updated. If enough people don’t buy Gem$ then customer support, game development, and new expansions and your very own player experience will suffer!

I say they just release pay to be a pro gemstore content. I know such isn’t popular in these kinds of games and Anet devs have been on so many other games’ forums and know that pay to be a pro stores push games away… at least the gamers say so, games like Wonderland Online have outrageous pay to be a pro prices in their item mall, yet people spend (literally) hundreds there. Look up the game and its item mall.

OP is generally correct. The MMORPG genre of games was never intended for millions of players. It was designed as a niche genre for people who like MUDs or Dungeons & Dragons. They were made for people who like to actually live in a world of fantasy and magic. When WoW came out, it turned the genre into a theme park ride that is fun for a while but then you need more. The term “theme park MMO” wasn’t even around until WoW.

Let’s go back to the beginning of video games themselves. It wasn’t really until the end of the Xbox/PS2 era that video gaming itself became mainstream. Once the Xbox360 and PS3 came out, game publishers have been blowing their loads releasing new games faster than anyone can keep up with. Video games these days are designed for the OCD crowd; always waiting for their next fix. Why do you think DLC is so prevalent now? Look at Borderlands 2 and Darksiders 2. You can buy a Season Pass for DLC that isn’t even released yet. This is insane. Just the words “Season Pass” mean the game is only meant for a short while until the new one comes out.

When new games sell millions of boxes and then 2 months later half the population is gone, that does not mean the game is dying or is bad. These people were never really interested in the game anyway. There’s always something newer and better for most people and that is the way our consumerist society is. Look at the iPhone. Every iteration sells another millions of units. Do you really think there were millions of people who didn’t already have an iPhone waiting for the next one? No, it is the same people always buying the new one to replace the old one, even though there isn’t really anything wrong with the old one.

It’s becoming a boring and repetitive argument to have, which is a shame as the forum has been fun and now it’s boring and repetitive – just like the game I don’t want to play.

The DR’s going to kill the game. It’ll have to be taken out. It won’t survive the way it is right now.

That’s just a cast iron fact.

Have fun debating all the intricacies of it. I can’t really be bothered anymore.

Um, my post didn’t mention DR at all until a roundabout mention regarding “grinding” and “farming” at the end. It was about people with too-short attention spans dismissing the games as dead and moving on to the next one because they lack the perspective to appreciate them. And how developers expect this to happen and plan for it. I saw it as a casual user over the last year and a half, I can’t imagine people who have spent the last 10 years in this industry would find such an attitude surprising.

Yes, if you go into every thread on the GD board and post “DR is killing the game!” over and over again, it’s going to get old fast. I hear there’s a new game coming out in a month or two, I’m sure that will be much more to your tastes than the last five or six.

Vorch.2985:

This is my theory, but I could be entirely wrong:

GW2 has no sub.

When people get tired of sub games, they have to stop playing. If they don’t, they will be charged for the next 30 days.

If GW2 is on the computer of someone who gets tired of a sub-based game, they are, imo, going to log in for a little bit. It is between the release of a competitor and the rejoining of a member of the community that ANet needs to put out new content or new patches. That keeps people who come back feeling like there is something fresh.

GW2 will do swimmingly with it’s model. IMO, the only two MMOs that can justify a sub anymore are WoW (idk why people still play it) and Rift (hate or love the game, mad props to Trion for actually giving a crap about their players).

That’s the best rational guess of the thread and probably the most likely to be accurate.

People will continue to buy GW2 simply because it most resembles their general game buying habit of a one off purchase with no strings. Many of you seem to be almost discounting just how powerful an inducement that is – a game that offers much of what encompasses the MMO genre for nothing more than the initial cost.

And many of them are going to be more than happy with what they find. GW1 did extremely well against all expectations with (imo) much less to offer besides an initially weak instanced pve campaign that served as little more than a front end for the pvp. I’d be extremely surprised if GW2 did not achieve at least comparable success with the added improvements in both pve and pvp. It’s a no brainer.

Meanwhile, the same old listless crowd of MMO gypsies will continue to wander aimlessly from one launch to the next, haunting forums with their woes. They’re not a breed of player that was around when I first started playing these games, but we get to hear from them constantly. Frankly, if they all go somewhere else I won’t miss them. And GW2 will still be fine.

Oh, did I mention DR is killing the game?

Just because your post doesn’t mention does it not mean it’s a phrase that cannot be mentioned.

You want a world where forums say only what you want to say, that’s fine. Have that world and be lonely.

You know nothing about me. Stop making wildly wrong speculative guesses about what type of gamer I am and what I will enjoy and what I should do with my time.

I can’t stand people like that. I leave everyone else alone. I don’t deride what type of person or player other people are in any of my posts. I just say I don’t like DR, bugs and bots. That’s all. I’ve repeated myself. It’s a kittening forum. Get used to it.

Effectively, you’re saying leave GW2 as there’s some rubbish out there will entertain me until the next rubbish comes along and I suddenly say “Oh shiny! Shiny good!” and then jump ship and keep doing that ad infinitum.

Thanks for that baseless assessment! That’s not the kind of person I am at all. So thanks for tarring me with some stupid brush you have there. Nice one. I’m loyal to developers if they make a product that’s worth the money I spent. This isn’t. Not even slightly. The DR is the main problem. I’m allowed to talk about it in a general forum.

I haven’t made one thread about it thus far. Your post here is really making me reconsider that. It could get a whole lot worse if you don’t like seeing the words or phrase DR.

Your attitude of telling people to leave isn’t going to endear the GW2 community to me, not in the slightest.

Thanks for telling me to Foxtrot Oscar, I might just do that if you’re the kind of person that is representative of GW and the franchise.

Every thread? It’s about 5 of 1000’s which is less than .005%. Stop being an exaggarating drama queen.

I don’t complain about all the hundreds of posts you make repeating yourself, if you want me to do so, it’s not going to be hard to collate them all and put them in a thread for you to see.

I’ll say what I want about the DR, where I want until I’m ready to stop and telling me not to will encourage me to do it more!

I hope that chip on your shoulder doesn’t lead to back problems later in life.

“Every thread? It’s about 5 of 1000’s which is less than .005%. Stop being an exaggarating drama queen.

I don’t complain about all the hundreds of posts you make repeating yourself, if you want me to do so, it’s not going to be hard to collate them all and put them in a thread for you to see.”

Interesting… call me an exaggerating drama queen only to be one yourself in the very next paragraph. I won’t call you a troll of course… but… I understand you all too well.

lagrangeify.5641:

Vorch.2985:

This is my theory, but I could be entirely wrong:

GW2 has no sub.

When people get tired of sub games, they have to stop playing. If they don’t, they will be charged for the next 30 days.

If GW2 is on the computer of someone who gets tired of a sub-based game, they are, imo, going to log in for a little bit. It is between the release of a competitor and the rejoining of a member of the community that ANet needs to put out new content or new patches. That keeps people who come back feeling like there is something fresh.

GW2 will do swimmingly with it’s model. IMO, the only two MMOs that can justify a sub anymore are WoW (idk why people still play it) and Rift (hate or love the game, mad props to Trion for actually giving a crap about their players).

That’s the best rational guess of the thread and probably the most likely to be accurate.

People will continue to buy GW2 simply because it most resembles their general game buying habit of a one off purchase with no strings. Many of you seem to be almost discounting just how powerful an inducement that is – a game that offers much of what encompasses the MMO genre for nothing more than the initial cost.

And many of them are going to be more than happy with what they find. GW1 did extremely well against all expectations with (imo) much less to offer besides an initially weak instanced pve campaign that served as little more than a front end for the pvp. I’d be extremely surprised if GW2 did not achieve at least comparable success with the added improvements in both pve and pvp. It’s a no brainer.

Meanwhile, the same old listless crowd of MMO gypsies will continue to wander aimlessly from one launch to the next, haunting forums with their woes. They’re not a breed of player that was around when I first started playing these games, but we get to hear from them constantly. Frankly, if they all go somewhere else I won’t miss them. And GW2 will still be fine.

It won’t be fine. You know it won’t be fine. That’s why you’re here, trying to convince yourself mostly, that it will.
Keep telling us to leave, it really helps. It’s nice and welcoming. You won’t alientate yourself and the game that way at all!
Lolgypsies. Can you be any more speculative and rude at the same time? You know nothing of anyone’s gaming habits on these forums. Stop pretending you do.

Well obviously I said hundred of your posts on purpose. If you can’t see that then that’s not my problem at all.

Which chip on my shoulder, please explain… I’d love to know.

You’re saying I’m this type of gamer, this type of person, with this type of attitude. I’ve not said anything like about you at any point, as there’s no possible way I could know.

I can’t know anything about you, other than the fact that you exaggerate in your posts.

Oh and ythat you’re omniscient, apparently. Seeing as you know me, my personality, my gaming habits, my chips on my shoulders and everything else about me. Amazing talent you’ve acquired there. How do I get to be so all-knowing too?

Oh, Ronin, I think I remember you mentioning you were 33 yrs old… I’m a bit older than you, so you might want to take my advice and dial back the venom a little. It will do nothing but lead to an early heart attack. Just some friendly advice, young one.

Ronin.8095:

Oh and ythat you’re omniscient, apparently. Seeing as you know me, my personality, my gaming habits, my chips on my shoulders and everything else about me. Amazing talent you’ve acquired there. How do I get to be so all-knowing too?

Live a few more years. I used to be just like you. You need seasoning.

Seriously. Ten years ago I was posting to other sites’ forums, raging because people wouldn’t step up to fix the glaring problems with whatever I was interested in at the time. I had all the answers and no one wanted to hear them. Eventually you learn that it’s just not possible to MAKE people see what is right in front of them, so you either kill yourself trying or accept it. I accept it.

tolunart.2095:

Oh, Ronin, I think I remember you mentioning you were 33 yrs old… I’m a bit older than you, so you might want to take my advice and dial back the venom a little. It will do nothing but lead to an early heart attack. Just some friendly advice, young one.

I don’t want your advice. Even if it is friendly. Thanks, but it’s totally unrequited. When I do need advice, it won’t be from an anonymous forum warrior I don’t know from Adam. I can assure you. I know much wiser people to answer my more personal problems.

The game I’m playing really isn’t one and I’ll be on a real beach tomorrow for some clam digging, which I’ll cook and eat later. My heart’s really looking forward to that.

Older or younger, I don’t see the relevance here and nor do I see venom. Venom where exactly? Venom as I share a different opinion about you to a game? I dont seem to recall resorting to name calling (drama queen is not name-calling if you’re actually being a drama queen!), I’m not agitated or swearing. You mean vitriol? Nope, not doing that either. Either you don’t know what venom means, or you do and you’re not using it in the right way on purpose. I can’t make out which.

I just won’t have some kind of gamer-psych evaluation done on me by you and people like you and then told with some authoratative tone that I’m “x” kind of person. You don’t know me. You can’t know me.

It’s rubbish. Total rubbish.

I’m not trying to belittle or ridicule your gaming habits, I’m talking about the game and it’s perceived flaws from my perspective and getting told to leave in the process. I don’t think it’s me who needs to dial back anything.

Dial back yourselves.

tolunart.2095:

Ronin.8095:

Oh and ythat you’re omniscient, apparently. Seeing as you know me, my personality, my gaming habits, my chips on my shoulders and everything else about me. Amazing talent you’ve acquired there. How do I get to be so all-knowing too?

Live a few more years. I used to be just like you. You need seasoning.

Seriously. Ten years ago I was posting to other sites’ forums, raging because people wouldn’t step up to fix the glaring problems with whatever I was interested in at the time. I had all the answers and no one wanted to hear them. Eventually you learn that it’s just not possible to MAKE people see what is right in front of them, so you either kill yourself trying or accept it. I accept it.

Dude, I’m not raging. I’m laughing my kitten off! Really I am. You’ve totally gone off on the wrong angle here.

I don’t really know why.

Listen, I’ve said I don’t want people making baseless assumptions about other people as they have no right to. That’s a fair point to make. That’s a very common theme in forums.

I’ll talk about the DR to my heart’s content. Nothing you can say will stop me and all your nicely-nicely older brother chat is just coming over as creepy now and massively condescending.

If you want to have that kind of conversation with me, tell me how old you are first and then let me decide if I want to take forum and/or gaming advice from you.

I’m not irate, you seem to think I am. I’m having a beer, having a special type of cigarette and getting ready to watch the football highlights when they’re on TV later.

What I choose to do in the interim, even if it’s talk about DR until it drives me insane is my choice.

I won’t be told I’m this or that kind of person in the process. I don’t do it to other people, why do you guys have the right to do that to me? I’m just asking. It’s a valid point.

Fanboys are unable to be reasonable so they tell themselves nonsense like the OP here to make themselves feel better.

It comes off as pretty desperate imo. Assuming so much about so many is obviously dumb.

But hey, that’s what keeps these forums entertaining.

I agree with tolunart that you seem unnecessarily vitriolic, Ronin. Whether you see it or not, other people see it. You may not care about what other people think, but there’s a difference between being staunchly independent and being just plain anti-social.

If your goal here is to persuade people to your view, being unpleasant in your posts will not help.

If your goal here is to vent or state your own opinion regardless of others, being unpleasant in your posts is unnecessary.

If your goal here is to create a negative vibe, being unpleasant in your posts is bang on.

It’s entirely your decision. Regardless of how we feel about you, being a jerk affects you more than it affects anyone else.

How many of us has ever had the power to change human nature, if they had the desire to do so? We can mostly only change our own opinions, and naturally such things will change as a person gains more personal experience in life. While we may make the observation that many people behave with less maturity than ourselves; perhaps we can allow that they will have enough time to grow out of it. None of us has the capacity for perfect knowledge, due to natural limitations we all lack some factual knowledge about reality. If we could ever be more informed about conditions, perhaps it would become arguable that all manner of human behavior is somehow justifiable. As the Taoist says, “the soup is just right,” the world is exactly what it should be. Our expectations have no special power to make it different.

Eh, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and figured you were getting all riled up because you care about the game. Obviously you’re the other sort.

Token.6501:

As the Taoist says, “the soup is just right,” the world is exactly what it should be. Our expectations have no special power to make it different.

Thanx for getting it.

tolunart.2095:

Eh, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and figured you were getting all riled up because you care about the game. Obviously you’re the other sort.

You are coming off as absolutely desperate to convince yourself anyone with criticism is somehow at fault.

It’s both sad and funny at the same time.

Then sorry, but you don’t know what vitriol is. You can’t. I’ve been reasonable and stable all throughout this conversation.

You see, you do it again and don’t even realise you’re doing it now.

I’m unpleasant how? You’re just saying I’m unpleasant as you’ve made your mind up that I am. I haven’t exhibited the properties of unpleasantness. Unless you’d kindly point out where this vitriol and unpleasantness is.

Can’t you see the irony in saying “Being a jerk about it” when I’ve said or done nothing of the sort to anyone else.

That made me laugh out loud when I read that.

You want to stop me from being a jerk by calling me a jerk? It’s that what happening now?

You want me to stop name calling (which I haven’t done yet) by name-calling yourself?

Think about what you’re saying there. It makes little sense and you contradict yourself almost all the way through what you’ve said.

You may think it’s unpleasant if you personally don’t like what I say. That doesn’t mean it is unpleasant. You may think I’m a jerk too, that doesn’t make me a jerk.

You calling me a jerk makes you a jerk, that is a trueism and therein lies the problem.

It’s called a forum, where other people are allowed to express an opinion. At no point have I said other people’s opinions are wrong, I’ve definitely never said they’re unpleasant, negative, or called them a jerk, even if I think that’s the case.

That is being rude and vitriolic in my book. Don’t undermine your argument by purposefully or inadvertently being the things you accuse someone else of being.

Especially when they’ve been polite to you and tried to handle themself with decorum. As I genuinely have. I want to be treated as other people treat me.

I’m not being treated with any kind of equal respect here and told I’m this kind of person, who’s now a jerk, is unpleasant and negative.

All because I hate DR and want to shout about it!

Hmmm.

MrThebigcheese.2014:

tolunart.2095:

Eh, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and figured you were getting all riled up because you care about the game. Obviously you’re the other sort.

You are coming off as absolutely desperate to convince yourself anyone with criticism is somehow at fault.

It’s both sad and funny at the same time.

I think he was replying to Ronin, not you mate.

MrThebigcheese.2014:

tolunart.2095:

Eh, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and figured you were getting all riled up because you care about the game. Obviously you’re the other sort.

You are coming off as absolutely desperate to convince yourself anyone with criticism is somehow at fault.

It’s both sad and funny at the same time.

You see this^

This is the reality.

Ronin.8095:

Then sorry, but you don’t know what vitriol is. You can’t. I’ve been reasonable and stable all throughout this conversation.

You see, you do it again and don’t even realise you’re doing it now.

I’m unpleasant how? You’re just saying I’m unpleasant as you’ve made your mind up that I am. I haven’t exhibited the properties of unpleasantness. Unless you’d kindly point out where this vitriol and unpleasantness is.

Can’t you see the irony in saying “Being a jerk about it” when I’ve said or done nothing of the sort to anyone else.

That made me laugh out loud when I read that.

You want to stop me from being a jerk by calling me a jerk? It’s that’s what happening now?

You want me to stop name calling (which I haven’t done yet) by name-calling yourself?

Think about what you’re saying there. It makes little sense and you contradict yourself almost all the way through what you’ve said.

You may think it’s unpleasant if you personally don’t like what I say. That doesn’t mean it is unpleasant. You may think I’m a jerk too, that doesn’t make me a jerk.

You calling me a jerk makes you a jerk, that is a trueism and therein lies the problem.

It’s called a forum, where other people are allowed to express an opinion. At no point have I said other people’s opinions are wrong, I’ve definitely never said they’re unpleasant, negative, or called them a jerk, even if I think that’s the case.

That is being rude and vitriolic in my book.

Interesting post there.

I think you are unpleasant, because you use too much agression in your posts. You did it in this one even.

I can see from what you write that you either don’t understand that yourself or you are currently feeling a bit defensive and therefore not letting yourself see it.

Neither of those things stops it being true. And it won’t matter how much you up the agression levels, how much you attack people, or how personal you get – you can’t stop things being true by shouting at them.

Feel free to have the last word on this one, because I won’t be posting about it again. It’s not good for forums to have this kind of discussion going on.

Cribbage.2056:

MrThebigcheese.2014:

tolunart.2095:

Eh, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and figured you were getting all riled up because you care about the game. Obviously you’re the other sort.

You are coming off as absolutely desperate to convince yourself anyone with criticism is somehow at fault.

It’s both sad and funny at the same time.

I think he was replying to Ronin, not you mate.

I know, just sharing an observation. He’s trying way to hard.

Cribbage.2056:

Ronin.8095:

Then sorry, but you don’t know what vitriol is. You can’t. I’ve been reasonable and stable all throughout this conversation.

You see, you do it again and don’t even realise you’re doing it now.

I’m unpleasant how? You’re just saying I’m unpleasant as you’ve made your mind up that I am. I haven’t exhibited the properties of unpleasantness. Unless you’d kindly point out where this vitriol and unpleasantness is.

Can’t you see the irony in saying “Being a jerk about it” when I’ve said or done nothing of the sort to anyone else.

That made me laugh out loud when I read that.

You want to stop me from being a jerk by calling me a jerk? It’s that’s what happening now?

You want me to stop name calling (which I haven’t done yet) by name-calling yourself?

Think about what you’re saying there. It makes little sense and you contradict yourself almost all the way through what you’ve said.

You may think it’s unpleasant if you personally don’t like what I say. That doesn’t mean it is unpleasant. You may think I’m a jerk too, that doesn’t make me a jerk.

You calling me a jerk makes you a jerk, that is a trueism and therein lies the problem.

It’s called a forum, where other people are allowed to express an opinion. At no point have I said other people’s opinions are wrong, I’ve definitely never said they’re unpleasant, negative, or called them a jerk, even if I think that’s the case.

That is being rude and vitriolic in my book.

Interesting post there.

I think you are unpleasant, because you use too much agression in your posts. You did it in this one even.

I can see from what you write that you either don’t understand that yourself or you are currently feeling a bit defensive and therefore not letting yourself see it.

Neither of those things stops it being true. And it won’t matter how much you up the agression levels, how much you attack people, or how personal you get – you can’t stop things being true by shouting at them.

Feel free to have the last word on this one, because I won’t be posting about it again. It’s not good for forums to have this kind of discussion going on.

No, no.

You replacing the word vitriol or unpleasant now with aggression instead doesn’t make it any more true. In fact, it’s not true at all. You’ve just made up these facts that I am these things you say, even being rude and aggressive to me in the process.

Therein lies the irony and you can’t see that. It’s a shame.

Disagreeing with someone is not being aggressive. That’s a ridiculous thing to say.

Jeez, if you think this is aggressive, I’d hate to see you when really vitriolic and aggressive people are actually around.

Towards you personally, I’ve been polite, cordial and balanced. I don’t know you, I can’t know you. Why would I ever be rude to you?

I cannot say, even within your last few posts that you’ve extended the same courtesy to me. Thanks.

I explained that I took umbrage to the way you tried to pigeon-hole the kind of person I am without knowing me. I’ve said that a few times now in calm and reasonable ways.

You seem not to be able to take this on board at all.

Heaven help you when you really get some negativity, vitriol and aggression thrown your way!

It’s hard to continue a conversation with people who are so presumptive, actually it’s nigh on impossible, so I won’t even bother!

MrThebigcheese.2014:

Fanboys are unable to be reasonable so they tell themselves nonsense like the OP here to make themselves feel better.

It comes off as pretty desperate imo. Assuming so much about so many is obviously dumb.

But hey, that’s what keeps these forums entertaining.

And people like you, all they do is troll the forums. How about constructive criticisim. Instead of telling fanboys how much of a fanboy they are, how about actually identifying issues you are having and giving multiple viable solutions to those issues.

I have seen you post many times before. You stoke the flame quite a bit but offer very little if nothing in return.

I am a fan, but I acknowlege there are problems with the game. Anet has fixed quite a bit of those problems. Unfortunately not all fixes can happen in a blink of an eye. And some problems or issues have no viable fixes at the moment. I acknowlege that some decisions (DR for example) were a bad call or implimented horribly.

DR should be taken away immediately or down graded severly. It only hurts honest gamers. Does nothing for gold sellers. It’s like gun control laws… they only hurt the law abiding citizen. Criminals don’t get their guns legally, so doesn’t effect them. Same with gold sellers. I cannot think of anything else that is a viable fix. DR is driving players away… not a good thing.

See that? I indentified an issue and provided 2 viable alternatives for fixing. that is how constructive criticism works.

Not once in this thread, other than “drama-queen” (which I really did say tongue-in-cheek) have I used derogatory adjectives to desribe anyone here. Not once. Why would I do that?

I’ll take my aggressive, vitriolic, venom-filled, attacking, rude, jerk self elsewhere!

Keep casting aspersions on other people you don’t know if it makes you happy! Just do it with out me around!

Another thing that is a huge problem in forums (in general). People constantly “nit-pick” every little word and fight over it. Most overlooking the idea or context of the post. No wonder there is no much flamming going on.

Instead of arguing semantics and punctionation etc. How about trying some comprehension. How about understanding the idea or intent/message that is being presented, instead of picking something totally irrevelant and going off on it.

The OP makes a good valid point. So what if he is generalizing… it’s still valid and true. We have all seen this common trend in many many MMO’s over the last 6-8 years.

“DR should be taken away immediately or down graded severly. It only hurts honest gamers. Does nothing for gold sellers. It’s like gun control laws… they only hurt the law abiding citizen. Criminals don’t get their guns legally, so doesn’t effect them. Same with gold sellers. I cannot think of anything else that is a viable fix. DR is driving players away… not a good thing.”

Something tells me you’re not going to get shot down in flames for saying this. Nice to see someone also articulate this point well.

That’s all I tried to do, but instead I get a barrage of lightweight abuse.

You’re very right and DR is driving players away and it will start to increase exponentially as it always does when there’s some kind of mass exodus away from something.

I have tried to be constructive about the DR system and think of an alternative, but the only thing I can say is take it out. There’s not much that’s constructive about that.

The bugs could occur with much less frequency than they do. It’s got the most bugs in it of any MMO I’ve played.

As you said perfectly, bots will always be there and imposing DR on them just moves them into other places we want bots even less.

The fact is, you can’t deal with bots in a cheap way. DR is just a cheap and lazy way of dealing with the problem. It’s poorly thought out and is far too punitive to us, the players.

I keep trying to say this normally and in the most articulate way I can, but I’m just a vitriolic, rude, aggressive, jerk who deserves to be in the loony bin from what I can ascertain from people in this thread.

“The bugs could occur with much less frequency than they do. It’s got the most bugs in it of any MMO I’ve played.”

Have you played SWTOR?

Guild Wars 2 was the MMO of choice of both /v and /b (/vg is just a step above 9gag and Reddit as people there prefer to one shot lowbie mobs with their level 90 raid gear), and now many feel betrayed by Anet for their DR decisions.