Guild Wars 2

So for my Warrior I am using this accessory from the event. It gives you 25 of each statistic for a whooping total of 150 stat points, plus 3% Crit damage and Magic Find. I slapped an Exquisite Ruby in there for an additional 25 Power, 15 Precision and 3% Crit damage.

Am I really just fooling myself thinking it is Best In Slot™ …? Or anyone else love it as much as I do?

It’s nowhere near BiS. It gives you a load of stat points, but they’re spread all over the place and the individual bonuses are nothing special at all. I’ll take my Ruby, Emerald and Beryl accessories any day.

Despite what the above poster has said, it may be the best for you or may not. It all depends on your build and how you use each of the stats. I personally make use of all except the MF, which is a nice bonus to have.

BiS the moment you start to utilize power, precision, crit damage, vitality and toughness from it. If you are a guardian, you can also manage to somewhat utilize healing power and condition damage. And we, warriors, can receive minimal bit from it, too.
And until the moment ascended trinkets come out.
I would ask to not confuse that BiS with ascended all-around rings. They are nowhere near best in slot unless you can utilize 6 stats including critical damage from it.
power/precision/crit damage/toughness/vitality – and then condition damage either healing power have to be utilized before you can call it BiS for yourself. Works for damage-orientied guardians with small survivability focus(they can get some benefits from condition damage and healing power, while not much, still can).
Warrior basic bleed on crit from trait(95% warriors have it) and healing spell(6) can not be called utilizing the stat, by the way.
Like math.
Compared to ruby trinket you could get otherwise – ruby gives 96 points of useful power/precision and 3% critical damage. Karka shell gives 100 useful points, not 96(assuming you are getting 25 vitality and 25 toughness that you would get somewhere else instead of power or precision, I mean come on even the hardest DPS needs to survive a bit), and comes with extra benefits on top such as condition damage and healing power(magic find is off the table, but not bad anyways).

Evalia.7103:

Compared to ruby trinket you could get otherwise – ruby gives 96 points of useful power/precision and 3% critical damage. Karka shell gives 100 useful points, not 96(assuming you are getting 25 vitality and 25 toughness that you would get somewhere else instead of power or precision, I mean come on even the hardest DPS needs to survive a bit), and comes with extra benefits on top such as condition damage and healing power(magic find is off the table, but not bad anyways).

Worth pointing out that 96 dedicated points are more valuable than 100 points spread around equally.

Especially since many factors like damage are multiplicative, and thus higher dedicated stats yield significantly better results on the whole.

This is why very few people run “spread stat” builds that utilize all of the stats at once, and tend to dedicate themselves to one pursuit (usually high-damage or high-crit). It gives you a jack-of-all-trades feel, true….but you’re also definitely the master of nothing.

critickitten.1498:

Worth pointing out that 96 dedicated points are more valuable than 100 points spread around equally.

Especially since many factors like damage are multiplicative, and thus higher dedicated stats yield significantly better results on the whole.

This is why very few people run “spread stat” builds that utilize all of the stats at once, and tend to dedicate themselves to one pursuit (usually high-damage or high-crit). It gives you a jack-of-all-trades feel, true….but you’re also definitely the master of nothing.

you realise that 100 were substracted from a total of 150?
these 100 were the ones that are completely necessary. Just like those 96, they hold the true value. And they are supported by extra 50 points that do not really cost 50 points, though. But still something.
While it is true that damage indeed stacks multiplicatively, survivability gain from first points into vitality and toughness is the greatest(1k hp to 10k hp thief is 10%, to 20k hp wariror is just 5%. Same with armor, thief with just 2k armor will get 5% damage decrease from 100 toughness while warrior with 3k will get 3.3% damage decrease) will. Good luck and have fun being that thief in wvw with 10.8k HP and no toughness. Or you could lose a trivial amount of precision and power(due to those amazing all-around items) while solidly racking in bulk.
Your DPS will not meet it’s target if the target is clever enough. You will hit the dirt first. In PvE you get oneshotted by everything, so it’s not exactly funny either(works if you are sure you are not getting any aggro, but that does not always happen in pugs).
Proper build can offer you serious survivability while losing minor amounts of damage.

It was rather fun when you said high-damage or high-crit. I would like to hear the difference, since crit is a part of damage formula and one of things you have to balance out(for example, GS warrior with billionzillion of on-crit effects can get up to 90-100% crit and be totally happy with it because it is better than plain power(when you get might stacks from going precision… well you know. Precision also gives power, power gives only power. Also other useful bonuses like extra bleeds, possible vulnerability from trait, sigil procs, food procs(omnomberry pies/ghosts are incredible)).
Not quite as attractive on someone who does not benefit from landing a crit except in a way of dealing increased damage, of course.
Back to my intentions, I want to point out that a true damage dealer is a person who is able to keep himself up while still dealing ridiculous amounts of damage. A damage potential that is never going to be realized is just not worth it.

Evalia.7103:

-snip-

You’re not understanding. The point I made is 100% accurate: dedicated points are worth more than spread points, which is why there needs to be more points on a spread-stat item in order to make the net power gain ~the same. And even then, it still doesn’t make you great at any one thing, your only true advantage is a greater amount of adaptability.

It’s interesting to hear you mention thieves specifically, because thieves are among the most complained about professions in terms of balance in WvW due to their stealth capacity (leading to culling issues) and extreme burst damage that allows them to gank many of the other professions in the game in a few quick blows, often before you’ve had time to react.

A decently “well rounded” build is entirely achievable without speccing specifically into every single stat. This can be done in a variety of ways, anything from speccing a few pieces of armor into different stats, or pumping a few points into an alternative trait tree, and even some traits provide stat boosts based on trees you’re already using. To use your example of the “easy to kill thief”, one trait allows a thief to get 5% of his Precision as as a bonus to Vitality. For a high-crit thief running, say, 2k Precision or higher, that’s 100 free Vitality or more, and is easily supplemented with other things to help keep the thief on his feet.

If you spec into six different areas, the only net result is that your damage is lower, you’re not as “tanky” as a dedicated tank, and you’re not as good of a healer as a dedicated specialist either. Yes, you will be more well rounded, you’ll be “good” at multiple things, but you’re be “great” at nothing.

Lastly, you’re misunderstanding how stats work, which is why you can’t understand the difference between high-damage and high-crit.

Precision does not give power. It doesn’t impact your normal attack damage in any way. It only impacts your critical rate (and not your critical damage, which is a separate stat). That, in turn, improves your average damage, but not your normal damage.

In other words, the difference is that high-damage builds focus on trying to maximize their normal damage output, whereas high-crit builds focus on improving the strength and frequency of their criticals.

To illustrate: A player with default stats who is entirely nude at Lvl 80 has 916 to all four primary stats. Let’s set up two scenarios. In the first, a player specs into armor with high Power, Vitality, and Toughness, and dumps 30 into their Power trait. In the second, the player specs with Precision, Vitality, and Toughness, ditto for their Precision trait. For ammys, accessories, and rings, we’ll assume they both use Power/Precision/Critical Damage.

Thus the Power player has:
916+300+45+34+101+34+67+34+90+112+134+75 = 1942 Power
916+64+40+96+45 = 1161 Precision

And the Precision player has:
916+90+112+134+75 = 1327 Power
916+300+45+34+101+34+67+34+64+40+96+45 = 1776 Precision

Presuming they both attack a target with no Toughness, the Power player deals 1047.5 * (1942) / (916+968) = 1080 damage per strike on average, and a [4+(1161-916)/21] = 15% chance to deal (150+26) = 176% damage. The Precision player will deal 1047.5 * (1327) / (916+968) = 738 damage per strike on average, and a [4+(1776-916)/21] = 44% chance to deal (150+26) = 176% damage.

So they both have the net effect of “higher damage”, but one build is designed to be more reliable damage, whereas the other incurs more risk by relying on criticals, but uses traits to take advantage of those critical hits when they do occur. There is a very, very distinct difference between the two.

critickitten.1498:

Evalia.7103:

-snip-

your only true advantage is a greater amount of adaptability.

this is all i cared to comment about in your post. adaptability > specificity, especially in groups. granted, it’s worth more in pugs than static groups where everyone knows their ‘role,’ however being flexible is the most important thing in gw2 since there are no defined roles based on profession.

just the karka shell alone won’t make a big impact, but the more all stat gear you can equip, the more powerful that concept becomes. of course the more you can utilize those extra stats, the better off you are. if your profession/build benefits from only using 3 stats, then these all stat items are not for you, but i will venture to say that MOST builds rely on more than 3 stats, going so far as to say that it is unavoidable to use more than just 3 core stats.

kiba.2768:

this is all i cared to comment about in your post. adaptability > specificity, especially in groups. granted, it’s worth more in pugs than static groups where everyone knows their ‘role,’ however being flexible is the most important thing in gw2 since there are no defined roles based on profession.

You misunderstand what I mean when I say “adaptability” and that’s partially my own doing. I don’t mean “the ability to adjust to a given situation”, which is possible with ANY build without much alteration at all. I mean “the ability to effectively change your entire build at a whim, even in dungeons”. Which is nice but not practical.

You won’t be able to “tank” as well as a real tank, you’ll be dealing less damage than those specced for DPS, and you’ll be healing less than someone who invested in healing abilities and traits. You’ll be able to change roles a lot more dynamically, but you’ll never perform in any of those roles as well as someone who’s designed for it. That doesn’t make you more desirable, it makes you less desirable. If I need a party member who can provide good support, I’m going to take the guy who specced into a heavy support role, not the guy with slightly higher damage who is only kind of good at it.

just the karka shell alone won’t make a big impact, but the more all stat gear you can equip, the more powerful that concept becomes. of course the more you can utilize those extra stats, the better off you are. if your profession/build benefits from only using 3 stats, then these all stat items are not for you, but i will venture to say that MOST builds rely on more than 3 stats, going so far as to say that it is unavoidable to use more than just 3 core stats.

Not really, it’s easy to design a build around three stats. I’ve got several characters fashioned in this way.

I’m not saying this to stop you from running a six-stat character, I’m simply warning you that your experience will not be the perfect rosy picture that it’s being painted as. You’ll find that your health drops much faster than you expected it to, that your damage isn’t as high as you expected it to be, and that your healing just isn’t enough to counteract all of the incoming damage and conditions. You’ll be efficient if you play it well, but you won’t be as efficient as you would’ve been if you had organized your build more effectively. A guy with 1.4-1.5k to every stat isn’t going to do well against people running 2k+ in one or two stats simply because of the game’s mechanics. Every little bit helps, especially in WvW zergs, but it’ll be left to other more specialized players to provide the extra “oomph” that you lack.

For example, I run a glass cannon ranger in WvW. I deliver death from above, and can pop single targets before they even realize it’s happening in many cases. Yeah, I don’t take hits as well, but I avoid this problem by designing my character to have longer range, more damage (so as to pressure the target to flee rather than engage me), and by evading attacks with traits and skills that help me avoid extra pressure (like Lightning Reflexes). So my weak defenses rarely become a problem.

It’s not a matter of designing your build so that you have average/mediocre stats in several areas. It’s about designing your build so that your weaknesses rarely show themselves, if ever.

i was referring to every situation/encounter. changing builds is not an option in the open world since your profession trainer isn’t available 24/7. what i can say is that after every encounter i am able to pick different utilities that capitalize on my stat distribution based on the next encounter and the efficiency of our pug. if our ‘healer’ keeps getting downed, i can definitely pick up his slack, though not as well, but it’s better than not having any support. dps will suffer as i’m removing myself from damaging mobs to heal or support, but given the situation(my personal preference), i would rather sacrifice damage until i can get our healer or support up. pve encounters are static as enemies’ attacks rarely if ever change rotation. it plays to our advantage.

in wvw, i have no problem with thieves. i either draw or win, but that’s more of a skill thing than stats.

[edit]
i run full valkyrie slotted with 6/6 divinity, solaria, lunaria and karka. triforge is an option as i have all the mats to craft it, but pending an ascended amulet being introduced, i’m keeping it as raw mats. the rest of my gear is a mix of zerker, knight’s and soldier’s. i do keep cleric trinkets in my bag, but healing scales horribly unless you go all in(an omission i will admit, which makes all stat gear basically all stats minus the magic find and healing).

i utilize power, toughness, vitality, precision, crit dmg. in a minor way, i use healing and condition dmg. magic find has no use for me. the tradeoff is noticeable after running full zerker, full soldiers, full knight’s, etc. my playstyle and ‘role’(role-less) have not changed since trying out different sets of stat distribution.

[edit2]
my experience comes from only pugging. i don’t do static groups, ever. my friends list is less than 10 people with never more than 4 on at a time. my followers list, however, is quite lengthy, but like i said, since i don’t do static groups…there’s no need to add them as i only chat with the few friends on my list. this may color the above explanation, as running a (good) static group, i would much rather go with a 3/4 stat distribution as i know that everyone will be performing admirably.

kiba.2768:

i was referring to every situation/encounter. changing builds is not an option in the open world since your profession trainer isn’t available 24/7. what i can say is that after every encounter i am able to pick different utilities that capitalize on my stat distribution based on the next encounter and the efficiency of our pug. if our ‘healer’ keeps getting downed, i can definitely pick up his slack, though not as well, but it’s better than not having any support. dps will suffer as i’m removing myself from damaging mobs to heal or support, but given the situation(my personal preference), i would rather sacrifice damage until i can get our healer or support up. pve encounters are static as enemies’ attacks rarely if ever change rotation. it plays to our advantage.

If your healer is getting downed all the time, then he’s not very good at it (skill-wise, not stat-wise). :P

And due to your lower stats in Power and Precision, your DPS likely wasn’t that much to begin with so your PUG wouldn’t suffer all that much in that area if you just stop.

And as I pointed out, anyone can respec their traits (meaning the Major Traits, not the trait points) or utility/elite skills outside of combat to adapt to a situation. I’ve often done this while still running a DPS-heavy build on the ranger. You’re not doing anything that a dedicated player can’t do with a bit of skill and some finesse. All you’re really doing is making yourself able to use a larger variety of skills and traits, but they’re all going to be weaker skills/traits than they would have been if you’d specialized.

Again, you’re not making yourself more useful by spreading your stats thin. You’re just making it so you can switch roles more dynamically. But that doesn’t mean that you’re more useful in any way, shape, or form. In fact, so long as everyone else is doing their job, you’re likely dragging your team down more than you’re helping. Sort of like how those who spec heavily into MF are providing less support to their team, except that their decision is somewhat more selfish.

actually, removing myself from combat is a bad idea since i draw aggro the easiest in my pugs. i should put up a screen of my stats, but i’m not on my laptop at the moment. my dps is between a full support and a full zerker. however, STATISTICALLY speaking, i live longer than my zerker groupies and longer than my medium/light armored support.

and it’s a matter of opinion, but your argument stems from having the highest or most dps in a party, which doesn’t win the day every time. everyone does damage. more damage does not mean the encounter ends sooner. if more damage = squishy, losing your main dps since he’s paper thin, means losing more than 20% dps because he was 1-2 shot. skill aside that is. i’ve often found a good balanced mix of players to have the fastest encounters. full zerk and full bunker parties run slower since i’m always having to rez the cannons and bunkers…we never die but we take forever killing something.

my argument comes from utility of your profession against your argument of just dps.

kiba.2768:

actually, removing myself from combat is a bad idea since i draw aggro the easiest in my pugs. i should put up a screen of my stats, but i’m not on my laptop at the moment. my dps is between a full support and a full zerker. however, STATISTICALLY speaking, i live longer than my zerker groupies and longer than my medium/light armored support.

If you’re drawing aggro the easiest, it’s because your stats are lower than everyone else. That’s one of the conditions for aggro.

and it’s a matter of opinion, but your argument stems from having the highest or most dps in a party, which doesn’t win the day every time.

No, that’s not my argument at all. You’re not reading it correctly if that’s what you think I’m saying.

critickitten.1498:

If you’re drawing aggro the easiest, it’s because your stats are lower than everyone else. That’s one of the conditions for aggro.

don’t think so. official post to prove me wrong?

my total power, precision, toughness and hp are higher than my respective party members’

what i’ve heard is that aggro is dependent upon highest hp. but is also untrue as i’ve pulled aggro from warriors and have had d/d ele’s pull aggro from me.

It’s an awesome item. But if you understand how stats and gear work in GW2, it doesn’t matter all that much.

kiba.2768:

don’t think so. official post to prove me wrong?

what i’ve heard is that aggro is dependent upon highest hp. but is also untrue as i’ve pulled aggro from warriors and have had d/d ele’s pull aggro from me.

It’s based on a number of factors, one of which is your stats. Specifically toughness and armor rating.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro

For a neutral (yellow outlined) NPC the player must attack first to gain its attention. The aggro table of a hostile NPC changes dynamically depending on a number of factors, in order of importance :
closest target to them
who is dealing damage
top damage dealers
who is using a shield / has more toughness and overall armor
others (see Tanking tactics below)

my total power, precision, toughness and hp are higher than my respective party members’

It’s statistically impossible for you to spread yourself among Power, Precision, Toughness, Vitality, Healing Power, Condition Damage, and Critical Damage, and still be stronger than a specialized player in every single individual stat. There is no gear in the game that would allow you to do that.

So I’m sorry, but I don’t believe you.

your post is misleading or not worded correctly, because you said my stats are the lowest, which is fallacious. my stats numerically cannot be the lowest, in fact, probably the highest since i’m utilizing so many all stat items, which give out more stats numerically than anything else. compare numbers-wise solaria, lunaria, karka and 6 divinity runes vs anything else you like.

numbers don’t lie.

however, if the aggro mechanic is running off of a different algorithm than what you posted, then it’s a mystery still.

however, again, by what you posted, if the list is up-down in importance, that would lead me to believe that i:

1. am closest(melee)
2. dealing damage(of course i am)
3. top damage(1h sword is 2nd for static top damage on guard)
4. who is using a shield(i am, both my offhands are shields)

that ‘official’ information killed your argument, as it states those who are in closest proximity, do (the most) damage and are using a shield/has MORE ARMOR gain aggro.

if i’m always aggroed, i fulfill all of those requirements

i’m also not saying i’m not stronger than anyone in a particular ONE stat, but if aggro works on a number of factors, i fulfill all of not most of them(aside from cannons/bunkers)

kiba.2768:

-snip-

You didn’t read it correctly if you think that “dismisses” my argument.

It states that aggro is based on a large number of factors, with those being the major ones. Ergo, it looks to see who is closest, who is dealing the most damage, who has the most armor, etc when deciding who to target.

It did not say that the person with the highest toughness will draw aggro, only that the game checks to see who has the highest toughness when trying to determine who draws aggro.

If aggro in this game works even remotely similar to how it did in GW1 and in many other games, it’s actually looking for a close-range target (so that it can deal melee damage, which is often the strongest attack of most bosses) who has the lowest armor rating when deciding who to attack.

So you’re probably being targeted because you’re right in his face and don’t have great toughness. Which is precisely what I said before.

And I’m glad you admit that your individual stats are not as high as a dedicated player, because this conversation would have been awkward if I had needed to ask for proof and then had to numerically prove your assertion false.

home from reunion.

what’s not shown is the 54% crit dmg. and the rhs giving me 56% crit chance.

i can see why i draw aggro. not on your terms, of course, but in keeping with the semi-official if that, post from the wiki.

[edit]
even if my armor was low-which it’s not, i still fulfill the other requirements

Very nice, and I am glad it works for you. But, as I’ve said no less than five times, your individual stats are still weaker than a dedicated stat build.

My ranger is still wearing a couple of blues and greens, yet still has significantly more Power than yours, and is very close to an equal amount of Precision. Just as an example.

that doesn’t make your argument any more true than mine. i perform and adapt to any situation and my stats compliment and allow me that freedom. i can specc cannon and be fine as well, though that is not my goal. what i want to do is be as valuable a team member in a party and this allows me to do so because i can’t count on everyone to do their duty 100% if specced 100% into that role. your particular skill lvl may be higher than the pugs i play with, but that’s the nature of the beast. since i pug, my party comp is different every time and i factor this into my playstyle. if i had a static group with a ranger like you in the party, i could afford to go full support/heal and not feel bad about contributing miniscule dmg, but i don’t.

aggro-wise, i definitely own it with the shield and proximity. dmg can be argued, but i stack might on crits and also on blocks, of which i have 3 immediate uses. blinds i cause also grant vulnerability(9 stacks). my damage is nothing to laugh at.

It’s as I said earlier: it can work if you build yourself around it well. That’s one thing I like about GW2, you have a lot of build freedom and you can make your build work if you’re smart about how you do it.

What I was protesting in your post was the perceived notion that you’re going to be equally as good at DPS as a person who specifically specs into DPS….which is clearly false. You may output respectable damage and respectable healing, no one’s arguing otherwise….but it’s not at the same level as someone who stated into those areas specifically. That’s all I’ve been trying to say here.

At first I looked that 100 useful stats compared to 96 useful stats. Now I look that 50 useful stats + 50 half-useful stats + 50 useless stats.

As a ele i find the karka shell to be the BiS since i get use of every single stat on pretty much every single weapon set.
I guess it comes down to what your prof is and what are you using it for.

critickitten.1498:

It’s as I said earlier: it can work if you build yourself around it well. That’s one thing I like about GW2, you have a lot of build freedom and you can make your build work if you’re smart about how you do it.

What I was protesting in your post was the perceived notion that you’re going to be equally as good at DPS as a person who specifically specs into DPS….which is clearly false. You may output respectable damage and respectable healing, no one’s arguing otherwise….but it’s not at the same level as someone who stated into those areas specifically. That’s all I’ve been trying to say here.

yes i agree that i will never be better than anyone who specced specifically into those roles. however, more often than not, i’ve not had a great party comp with the ideal setup, whatever anyone’s perception of that may be. for me, the closest i’ve had was:

ele: staff water/earth for support/heals
thf: sword/dagger for dps
war: gs or xxx/axe for dps, sometimes banners or shouts for hybrid support
nec: staff with wells/marks for control/support
grd: hammer or scepter/shield for control and support

because it’s rare that i get such a nice comp, i usually have to hybridize between dps and support. i can control with hammer, if i must, and usually take healing of some kind if i go that route. my main focus as you can see is sword/shield and scepter/shield because i love shield 4’s ability and 5 is great for control, especially in wvw.

since i have aggroed the wife and as some of you may know, no stat distribution can defeat an aggroed wife, i will leave with the final comments(i would love to continue this discussion):

-whatever stat distribution compliments your playstyle/utilities, go with it. my experience has dictated that having as much all stat as possible works in my favor(just karka alone or solaria or any ONE all stat item can’t make justify the loss in 3 focused stats). also, experiences vary wildly. this, like i said, is what i’ve come to expect on an average day of play.

-if you can utilize most if not all of the stats in an all stat item, then your gain is much larger than had you specced into a focused 3/4 stat distribution. i will say that you will gain a marginally at the least to a significant advantage over the average casual player.

-skill will always trump stats. not much to say about that. a terrible player with all stats is still terrible. a terrible player with focused stats is still terrible. if a player with incredible dps gets downed, his contribution during the downed phase is ZERO. in addition, once he goes down, everyone who stops to rez is no longer contributing to dps. in contrast, a great player with great dps can stay up longer if he has the support he needs. i tend to be a gap filler to fill in what my party lacks and all stats allows such flexibility.

Wethospu.6437:

At first I looked that 100 useful stats compared to 96 useful stats. Now I look that 50 useful stats + 50 half-useful stats + 50 useless stats.

well you’re the resident war expert going solo on any and all bosses. i can’t argue with you really since my play revolves around grouping. i use 7/8 of any all stat gear. mf is the only NON use stat. it fits guardian playstyle very well as someone posted earlier. cannons will find little use. bunkers will find marginally more use. hybrid, well i needn’t say any more than i’ve already said about hybrid builds(myself).

Healing pulls agro too, i believe high conditions do too, i play a support Engineer and my damage is comparatively much lower to everyone else, i do not fight in melee, yet i pull agro a lot from Guardians and Warriors alike, all i’m doing is healing and stacking conditions..

My stats are as good as anyone elses, just Engineer does crap damage

Wethospu.6437:

At first I looked that 100 useful stats compared to 96 useful stats. Now I look that 50 useful stats + 50 half-useful stats + 50 useless stats.

Hey, I equip full berserker with scholars too when I get to solo something that does not require me to be survivable(I repeated arah p2 after you just to see how hard it was, hardest part to be honest was lupicus and I figured him out after an hour of fails or so(I hate his kick…)).
When I go into a place where I can not evade the damage reliably, like… world versus world? Or half the dungeon encounters? I can’t help it but to search where to get that survivability while trying to sacrifice as little of damage as possible. And of course, I’m looking at all-arounds first since they seem to be the best place where to get that survivability(interesting note that for a warrior I found lyssa rune to be a superior all-around rune rather than divinity… it utilizes around offensive stats but survivability bonus from all boons and full conditional removal is phenomenal for short wvw fights)

kiba.2768:

-snip-

Seems we’re pretty much in agreement on all counts.