Guild Wars 2

Satenia.9025:

Well, after a couple of days, my GW1 legacy is still in ruins, I’m hearing even stranger voices than normal and the pet is refusing to behave. To me, these things matter because I cannot really avoid them. If an activity doesn’t work, I can do another… but the current bugs affecting me are universal.

Sure, I’m confident that everything will be resolved in time, but what I’m not so confident about anymore is the quality of the updates. Hopefully, this turns out to be some kind of wake-up call though.

Vayne.8563:

I’m not congratulating them for fixing what they broke. I’m offering some balance on a forum that has over-reacted for ages, using hyperbole like a sword. It’s a silly think for someone to say this is the worst patch in the history of mankind, so pointing out that much of what was wrong is fixed in two days would seem warranted.

It’s called being reasonable.

Since this is only a balancing act, shouldn’t your thread be removed as well then? :P

One thread may have been removed, but the amount of vitriol in general is still way out of proportion. Or do you think this forum is mostly a positive happy place?

Many.8419:

I know, I still dont understand why anyone would test the product without being paid.

That’s what we do every patch day. I’ve lately come to the conclusion that GW2 doesn’t need a player test server: it already has mass quantities of player test servers. Mine’s called Crystal Desert! When I’m not being megaserved, that is. What’s yours?

Ppl still write here because they want this game to be good. They spent their money and time on this game and many of them is still actively spending money on this game. It is customers right to complain and this is the only way a company can feel obligated to do anything. If more ppl share the same attitude as the V-bot, companies won’t care even a little about quality of products. Bussiness is bussiness but money comes from ppl so we, customers, must be treated with respect. We are no walking wallets.

I wish there is a red post saying "we are sorry, it happened because …. " not so much but helps to understand why this patch is so annoying. Good ideas, bad execution.

Tachenon.5270:

Many.8419:

I know, I still dont understand why anyone would test the product without being paid.

That’s what we do every patch day. I’ve lately come to the conclusion that GW2 doesn’t need a player test server: it already has mass quantities of player test servers. Mine’s called Crystal Desert! When I’m not being megaserved, that is. What’s yours?

wow… I think… you are right. This whole game feels sometimes like beta test going too long.

Many.8419:

Ppl still write here because they want this game to be good. They spent their money and time on this game and many of them is still actively spending money on this game. It is customers right to complain and this is the only way a company can feel obligated to do anything. If more ppl share the same attitude as the V-bot, companies won’t care even a little about quality of products. Bussiness is bussiness but money comes from ppl so we, customers, must be treated with respect. We are no walking wallets.

I wish there is a red post saying "we are sorry, it happened because …. " not so much but helps to understand why this patch is so annoying. Good ideas, bad execution.

Tachenon.5270:

Many.8419:

I know, I still dont understand why anyone would test the product without being paid.

That’s what we do every patch day. I’ve lately come to the conclusion that GW2 doesn’t need a player test server: it already has mass quantities of player test servers. Mine’s called Crystal Desert! When I’m not being megaserved, that is. What’s yours?

wow… I think… you are right. This whole game feels sometimes like beta test going too long.

The companies should be treated with respect as well. This is something everyone seems to forget. They are providing services in exchange for that money. They are made of people trying their kitten dest to make their customer base happy. They are not REQUIRED to build this game, they are not required to make you happy. That is their privilege. They could all sell the game, and then leave to work for other companies. In business, BOTH sides must have mutual respect for one another. If someone truly believes that ANET, or any company, should be cow towing to their wims, then they have the wrong philosophy of life.

Tachenon.5270:

Many.8419:

I know, I still dont understand why anyone would test the product without being paid.

That’s what we do every patch day. I’ve lately come to the conclusion that GW2 doesn’t need a player test server: it already has mass quantities of player test servers. Mine’s called Crystal Desert! When I’m not being megaserved, that is. What’s yours?

This is not even close to reality. I play this game, I don’t test it. Believe it or not, I even dare to enjoy it. I don’t feel the slightest way as if I am misused as a free tester. If I was a tester, I would run around with the intention of finding bugs to report them. I don’t do that. I rarely ever find bugs and almost never do they destroy my gaming experience or hinder my progress.

You are exaggerating. Stay fair and don’t aim for such a cheap catch phrase.

gricks.1897:

Many.8419:

Ppl still write here because they want this game to be good. They spent their money and time on this game and many of them is still actively spending money on this game. It is customers right to complain and this is the only way a company can feel obligated to do anything. If more ppl share the same attitude as the V-bot, companies won’t care even a little about quality of products. Bussiness is bussiness but money comes from ppl so we, customers, must be treated with respect. We are no walking wallets.

I wish there is a red post saying "we are sorry, it happened because …. " not so much but helps to understand why this patch is so annoying. Good ideas, bad execution.

Tachenon.5270:

Many.8419:

I know, I still dont understand why anyone would test the product without being paid.

That’s what we do every patch day. I’ve lately come to the conclusion that GW2 doesn’t need a player test server: it already has mass quantities of player test servers. Mine’s called Crystal Desert! When I’m not being megaserved, that is. What’s yours?

wow… I think… you are right. This whole game feels sometimes like beta test going too long.

The companies should be treated with respect as well. This is something everyone seems to forget. They are providing services in exchange for that money. They are made of people trying their kitten dest to make their customer base happy. They are not REQUIRED to build this game, they are not required to make you happy. That is their privilege. They could all sell the game, and then leave to work for other companies. In business, BOTH sides must have mutual respect for one another. If someone truly believes that ANET, or any company, should be cow towing to their wims, then they have the wrong philosophy of life.

I pay the so I expect a product to be good. When they make a mistake I want them to hear it. And who are you to tell me about my life philosophy? Are you another online shrink?

Vayne.8563:

The reputation I have is with some people and I have a lot of people who like what I have to say as well. The problem is one person sees talking down and another person doesn’t. I don’t usually talk down to anyone and if that’s what you’re getting from what I’m saying, you’re most likely misintpreting it. Take the whole brainwashing thing.

Human beings form expectations based on habits. We all do. Years and years of the same thing over and over again, create an expectation in a large percentage of people. This is something that has been shown over and over again and pretty much any psychologist will back it up.

So maybe it’s not brainwashing in a literal sense, but it is a form of programming. There’s an old saying, if all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail. There are many times I’ve seen people come to this game from other games and walk away because this game doesn’t have mounts, or raids, or end game as they’ve learned to define it.

But I’ve also seen some of those same people come back and “get it” the second time they’ve come. It’s not insulting to people or it shouldn’t be, to point out that every MMORPG, at least every western one, for the last five years has tried to emulate WoW. That’s pretty much common knowledge. They’re not called WoW clones for nothing.

If you don’t think that sort of constant repetition has an effect on how people perceive things, I don’t really know what to say. Where you see condescending, I’m just using words which you can take at face value or you can read into it. We’re all programmed by experience.

Some people have made up their mind about me long ago and anything I say will go through that veil of thinking one way. It’s a bit like programming. Like people who claim I only say positive things. It’s not true. You guys really have no clue about me.

But a lot of what I say is just balanced. If people are calling this the worst page in the history of mankind, I think a bit of balance is justified. If you don’t like it, don’t reply. If you do reply, I’m going to answer you.

I’ve seen you on both sides of the fence, when Anet has done something that was not well received. I never said you hadn’t. You are usually on the frontlines of defense, which in itself is not a bad thing. Some people on the other side who attack everything Anet does do take things to the extreme sometimes and the forums should not be a wholly negative place.

However….

Vayne.8563:

If all you want is raids and gear grind, yes, you should just quit. That’s because you’ve bought into the rhetoric of an industry that has brainwashed people to make everything about upgrading stats.

If you just want a raid with gear, there are lots of choices out there for you. But if you can overcome that mindset, there’s a lot of choices here for you too.

This kind of talk voids your arguments in defense of GW2, IMO. While this is trying to speak positive of GW2, the attitude is still overly negative because someone simply doesn’t “get it”.
It’s one thing to tell someone they’ve come to the wrong game and that there’s other choices. With the sea of MMO’s out there, it’s a lot easier to find one that suits your preferences than hope one changes to fit them. But, its entirely another to insult them by telling them they’ve bought into a brain washing industry and must overcome a certain mindset to enjoy GW2.
Talk about blanket terms, then lump everyone that may actually like raids and min/max stat creeps for a slight edge in other MMO’s as being a brainwashed sheep. Because believe it or not, some people do like it. Some people love the stat crawls and numbers game of having slightly higher stats. Not because they’ve bought into anything, but because they actually prefer it.
Oh, I know you can say to read deeper and between the lines, but most ways you slice it, talking to people like that is insulting.

Cazamar.7148:

All I have had go wrong is random voices coming from no where and that is easily ignored.

In the game or in real-life?

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

snip

So maybe it’s not brainwashing in a literal sense, but it is a form of programming. There’s an old saying, if all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail. There are many times I’ve seen people come to this game from other games and walk away because this game doesn’t have mounts, or raids, or end game as they’ve learned to define it.

But I’ve also seen some of those same people come back and “get it” the second time they’ve come. It’s not insulting to people or it shouldn’t be, to point out that every MMORPG, at least every western one, for the last five years has tried to emulate WoW. That’s pretty much common knowledge. They’re not called WoW clones for nothing.

If you don’t think that sort of constant repetition has an effect on how people perceive things, I don’t really know what to say. Where you see condescending, I’m just using words which you can take at face value or you can read into it. We’re all programmed by experience.

Some people have made up their mind about me long ago and anything I say will go through that veil of thinking one way. It’s a bit like programming. Like people who claim I only say positive things. It’s not true. You guys really have no clue about me.

But a lot of what I say is just balanced. If people are calling this the worst page in the history of mankind, I think a bit of balance is justified. If you don’t like it, don’t reply. If you do reply, I’m going to answer you.

I’ve seen you on both sides of the fence, when Anet has done something that was not well received. I never said you hadn’t. You are usually on the frontlines of defense, which in itself is not a bad thing. Some people on the other side who attack everything Anet does do take things to the extreme sometimes and the forums should not be a wholly negative place.

However….

Vayne.8563:

If all you want is raids and gear grind, yes, you should just quit. That’s because you’ve bought into the rhetoric of an industry that has brainwashed people to make everything about upgrading stats.

If you just want a raid with gear, there are lots of choices out there for you. But if you can overcome that mindset, there’s a lot of choices here for you too.

This kind of talk voids your arguments in defense of GW2, IMO. While this is trying to speak positive of GW2, the attitude is still overly negative because someone simply doesn’t “get it”.
It’s one thing to tell someone they’ve come to the wrong game and that there’s other choices. With the sea of MMO’s out there, it’s a lot easier to find one that suits your preferences than hope one changes to fit them. But, its entirely another to insult them by telling them they’ve bought into a brain washing industry and must overcome a certain mindset to enjoy GW2.
Talk about blanket terms, then lump everyone that may actually like raids and min/max stat creeps for a slight edge in other MMO’s as being a brainwashed sheep. Because believe it or not, some people do like it. Some people love the stat crawls and numbers game of having slightly higher stats. Not because they’ve bought into anything, but because they actually prefer it.
Oh, I know you can say to read deeper and between the lines, but most ways you slice it, talking to people like that is insulting.

What I said here is true. People have bought into that. It’s an opinion. It voids nothing. It’s not even disrepectful to say that someone bought into it. People buy into all sorts of things. You have an opinion and you’re entitled to it, but it doesn’t void my opinion.

My opinion is the popularity of WoW so damaged MMO space that MMOs may never recover. That’s just an opinion, but it’s mine. I believe, really believe, WoW did more to turn people away from MMOs than it did to sell them to the public. Sure there were 12.4 million WoW subscriptions at one point, but that’s only a small percentage of gamers over all. And for each person who loves WoW, I’m convinced another was driven away from MMOs because of it and games that copied it. I believe people who come to any other game and expect WoW"s features have bought into the rhetoric.

Not sure why you think that’s condescending. It’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it. Trying to make it something it’s not invalidates pretty much everything you’ve said.

Vayne.8563:

Satenia.9025:

Since this is only a balancing act, shouldn’t your thread be removed as well then? :P

One thread may have been removed, but the amount of vitriol in general is still way out of proportion. Or do you think this forum is mostly a positive happy place?

While I agree with the overall sentiment that bugs happen regardless of what kind of QA ANet chooses, I’m greatly in favor of PTRs for players to try out the new patches before rolling them out.
It wasn’t all that bad but some patches like the ‘fractured’ update were pretty buggy upon release. Stuff like forgetting to add a WP so the party can’t respawn is something, players would have noticed in less than an hour. Granted, it’s really only a small portion but that fact that those game breaking bugs could’ve been prevented in the first place make it all the more frustrating.

The reaction from a few select people was overblown but just because a small part of the community reacts in an unreasonable manner doesn’t mean we need someone who seems (personal impression) to view themselves as some kind of savior to bring ‘balance’. It’s because of this, that some might call you a ‘shill’, ‘whiteknight’ or ‘fanboy’ for lack of a better term.
I don’t agree with that kind of dirt-slinging but what I definitely noticed is your general attitude of talking down on others or viewing yourself as someone in the position or with the obligation (?) to bring balance (; you used that term in several threads).
You are not ANets PR department nor are you responsible or even qualified to influence the overall climate on the forums.
I think (and that’s really just my personal impression) it’s for that reason some call you names; not because you really are a ‘whiteknight’ or whatever, but because you just don’t seem like a pleasant person.

Not sure why you think that’s condescending. It’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it. Trying to make it something it’s not invalidates pretty much everything you’ve said.

You are entitled to you opinion but but it’s how you present it to others, that makes them disagree with you. I am, by the way, of the same opinion as other here who have said that the way you treat others comes across as incredibly insulting.

Needlessly negative threads should be removed if they don’t contain some kind of constructive criticism and they are. In the same vain, threads that serve no purpose other than praise ANet or try to ‘balance’ the positive : negative ratio should be removed too. If people are discontent with the way certain things are run, they should tell ANet and leave feedback on here. We only benefit from the stuff that’s been written on here even though yes, from time to time there are useless and needlessly negative threads, the same as there are useless and needlessly positive threads.

On another note I’d like to add that from the 3 MMOs I’ve played (XIV, GW2, WoW – but stopped 2011) this game has by far the most negative forums. I think it’s good people let ANet know what bugs them about the game and what improvements they could make. Because of player feedback we got a ton of stuff and it’s my understanding that a lot of content from HoT like the new borderlands, guildhalls and more difficult content was included due to player feedback.
If there are a lot of negative voices then that’s a good sign that ANet still can enhance many aspects of the game and make it even better. Remember that we are all here because we want to see them improve a game that we all love.

edit: english isn’t my first language so if i made mistakes or sounded stupid, feel free to point it out.

Crovax.7854:

doesn’t mean we need some self declared ‘saviour’

For someone to be a “self-declared” saviour… they have to actually declare themself a saviour. It doesn’t work if you do it for them.

Just fyi.

Olvendred.3027:

Crovax.7854:

doesn’t mean we need some self declared ‘saviour’

For someone to be a “self-declared” saviour… they have to actually declare themself a saviour. It doesn’t work if you do it for them.

Just fyi.

Vayne.8563:

I’m offering some balance on a forum that has over-reacted for ages, using hyperbole like a sword.

Sounds pretty clear to me. He also stated similar things in multiple other threads but you are right, I didn’t use the word correctly. I’ll change it in my post. Thanks for pointing that out!

Crovax.7854:

Olvendred.3027:

Crovax.7854:

doesn’t mean we need some self declared ‘saviour’

For someone to be a “self-declared” saviour… they have to actually declare themself a saviour. It doesn’t work if you do it for them.

Just fyi.

Vayne.8563:

I’m offering some balance on a forum that has over-reacted for ages, using hyperbole like a sword.

Sounds pretty clear to me. He also stated similar things in multiple other threads but you are right, I didn’t use the word correctly. I’ll change it in my post. Thanks for pointing that out!

Actually I agree with you and I think you should change nothing in your posts.

Vayne.8563:

Having played many other MMOs before this, I think people greatly underestimate the development team.

Thanks, Anet.

“Thanks ArenaNet, for releasing a patch filled with a lot of bugs even though you delayed it because it had a lot of bugs!”

Riiiiiiiiight.

Since the discussion in this thread has derailed and is no longer constructive this thread is now closed.