Guild Wars 2

Let’s all gather round and discuss what ascended items and infusions are to us and how Laurels and Infusions have now actually caused a big treadmill!

I was just looking at the Laurel vendor and came to this. I may be wrong on some parts so correct me if so.

1 Laurel a Day. 31/28 a month through just dailies
10-20 a month *not sure how many monthlies give.

Ascended gear costs 30 L (Laurel) a piece. Meaning 16/16 would cost 480 L (that’s hoping that ALL the pieces cost 30L and chest pieces don’t go for 50L)

Infusion which i had no time for until i saw the AMAZING 15% Karma 10L, 20% EXP 10L, 20% Magic Find 20L and 20% more Gold 20L meaning me a person who absoultly hates fractals will spend his game time doing Dailies and Monthlies then log off.

Now, Infusions are 5 – 20 L meaning a full 16/16 would cost between 80 – 320 L.

So a character with full ascended and infusions from Laurels alone would cost 560 -800 Laurels. You get 41-51 L a month from doing the dailies and Monthlies so it would take you 10-16 months to get a full set with full infusions.

So what do you think about this? Will it keep people busy for the next 10 to 16 months?

Oh wait i’m wrong I missed something out.

Ascended items cost 30L + some are 35L

I’m wondering whether Laurels are soulbound or not. If they’re not, and people have time, they could run them across all characters to get more per day and equip their main faster.

Well, they are going to convert your previous achievement points into Laurels at some stage, so I think its not as bad as you describe. I think you’d be able to get on character fully specced at least.

For me though, I’ve been collecting ascended gear, and I’ll be buying a new bank slot to house this new amulet collection lol.

Those new infusions will be a problem. It might end up forcing me to stick to one build which will be a pain. My 3 characters each have 3-4 viable builds with exotic gear

Look dude before you bust out your pitchforks and rally all the hillbillies around to attack Frankenstein take a deep breath and realize. That number #1 people like getting new gear in these types of games. #2 Dailies aren’t a treadmill, they happen naturally while you play the game. #3 Go play any other game in this genre and see if you like the gear system better.

1. Laurel’s will be gotten from all achievements not just dailies, this is just step 1.
2. I’m not sure where you got the idea that the only method for getting ascended gear will be laurel’s. In fact the devs have specifically said that different pieces will all be gotten from different methods, and that they plan on having multiple methods for each piece. You can already get rings from both fractals and laurels. So your entire calculation is essentially worthless since it doesn’t convey any sense of reality.

its a very small stat increase over exotics, that fact that you can’t stand doing fractals or doing dailys even to earn them, kinda makes me feel you don’t deserve it.

you don’t want to ‘grind’ the ‘treadmill’ for items then don’t play video games. i mean really… you have to do stuff in game to obtain items in game or there’d be no point in logging on. having stuff for nothing doesn’t make any sense.

Grizledorf.5290:

Look dude before you bust out your pitchforks and rally all the hillbillies around to attack Frankenstein take a deep breath and realize. That number #1 people like getting new gear in these types of games. #2 Dailies aren’t a treadmill, they happen naturally while you play the game.

25 underwater kills happen naturally?
If you don’t like crafting how does having to craft happen naturally?
Specifically having 10 combo kills happens naturally?

You may lack understanding of what a gear treadmill really is.

Wow, they have a 20% more gold infusion? That’s like a requirement for farming now. I wonder if they stack….

morrolan.9608:

Grizledorf.5290:

Look dude before you bust out your pitchforks and rally all the hillbillies around to attack Frankenstein take a deep breath and realize. That number #1 people like getting new gear in these types of games. #2 Dailies aren’t a treadmill, they happen naturally while you play the game.

25 underwater kills happen naturally?
If you don’t like crafting how does having to craft happen naturally?
Specifically having 10 combo kills happens naturally?

You sir, need to hop into WvW and defend your realm.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

You may lack understanding of what a gear treadmill really is.

Don’t even try to explain it, half the people on this forum just don’t get it or don’t want to see reason.

morrolan.9608:

25 underwater kills happen naturally?
If you don’t like crafting how does having to craft happen naturally?
Specifically having 10 combo kills happens naturally?

Hate to be THAT guy, but I went to Frostgorge, and shot at salmon. 1 shot to kill them, and they count toward it.

Not too bad imo. At least not that. I haven’t seen the other dailies.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

1. Laurel’s will be gotten from all achievements not just dailies, this is just step 1.
2. I’m not sure where you got the idea that the only method for getting ascended gear will be laurel’s. In fact the devs have specifically said that different pieces will all be gotten from different methods, and that they plan on having multiple methods for each piece. You can already get rings from both fractals and laurels. So your entire calculation is essentially worthless since it doesn’t convey any sense of reality.

He probably got the idea from the devs own posts that say that laurels may or may not be rewarded with other achievements in the future.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Eddie.6701:

I’m sure I read somewhere that the achievement points we already have from previous dailies and monthlies will be taken into account with this update, so some of us will already have some currency to spend?

Laurels are only earned through daily and monthly achievements (starting with the feb monthly) and will not reward for previous daily/monthly achievements completed since folks didn’t know this system was coming.

We will however introduce an expanded/new reward system in the future that will reward for other types of achievements, this system will reward previous achievement points earned. (But may require bringing back into line some infinitely repeatable achievements that would bloat/break this system)

Note the line about a new reward system, separate from laurels, that will be rewarded for non-daily/monthly achievements.

wait, so when i log on i have to do stuff? grind!

theres gear that im not automatically given? treadmill!

kKagari.6804:

Those new infusions will be a problem. It might end up forcing me to stick to one build which will be a pain. My 3 characters each have 3-4 viable builds with exotic gear

This is a HUGE problem with ascended items (heck it’s even a minor problem with exotic items for players who mainly WvW and don’t farm gold much). Unfortunately there are a lot of players out there who like spending hundreds of hours grinding for new gear so they can feel like their character is progressing. What I propose is that Anet allows everyone to fit whatever armor they like (with free transmutes) in WvW just like in sPvP, since build-crafting is vital to all forms of PvP. PvE players who like sticking to one build and grinding ascended items can still have their progression.

1.Laurels are account bound and you see the icon in your Inventory next to karma
2. At the moment (Note that ANET already announced that you will get Laurels for other achievements as well in the future) you get 40/41 laurels a month which means you could afford both rings as one costs 20 or a necklace and have 10 left over
3. the bought stat laurels are useless. they have 1 less stat then the offensive/defensive that can be crafted in the Mystic Forge and they even come with agony resist if you are a FotM runner, yaaay

If you want to go for different sets that’s your thing, you’ll need many laurels to do so, but using boosters/karma banners/guild karma boost will do more then 15% karma on an extra amulet you spent a whole month on getting (note that you can get 40 jugs of karma for each 7.500+ karma making it alone 300k+ a month, wait what? o.O) will not really do you anything good as you got way more karma in the process then the 15% will give you the next 7 month. (bang for the buck anyone?)

The only reason to get me a second necklace per character would be the magic find one. 30% magic find on just the necklace is good enough reason for that.

@Interpol: Dailies and monthlies are accountwide, so you only can do them once per day, as in 1 laurel a day, 10 a month

For the future items, whatever they may cost bring it up. 4k+ Achievment points and waiting to get laurels for the stuff i’ve done yet

Greetz (‘-’)/

P.S.: A 6% increase in stats is not a threadmill, especially as you can do everything in this game with exotic gear. Its a reward for dedicated and long time players. If you dont want to grind, dont do it, its not a necessity.

Sorry about the title. I don’t actually think it’s much of a treadmill, I just used it to get people in the topic :/

Magistrella.6970:

1.Laurels are account bound and you see the icon in your Inventory next to karma
2. At the moment (Note that ANET already announced that you will get Laurels for other achievements as well in the future) you get 40/41 laurels a month which means you could afford both rings as one costs 20 or a necklace and have 10 left over
3. the bought stat laurels are useless. they have 1 less stat then the offensive/defensive that can be crafted in the Mystic Forge and they even come with agony resist if you are a FotM runner, yaaay

If you want to go for different sets that’s your thing, you’ll need many laurels to do so, but using boosters/karma banners/guild karma boost will do more then 15% karma on an extra amulet you spent a whole month on getting (note that you can get 40 jugs of karma for each 7.500+ karma making it alone 300k+ a month, wait what? o.O) will not really do you anything good as you got way more karma in the process then the 15% will give you the next 7 month. (bang for the buck anyone?)

The only reason to get me a second necklace per character would be the magic find one. 30% magic find on just the necklace is good enough reason for that.

@Interpol: Dailies and monthlies are accountwide, so you only can do them once per day, as in 1 laurel a day, 10 a month

For the future items, whatever they may cost bring it up. 4k+ Achievment points and waiting to get laurels for the stuff i’ve done yet

Greetz (‘-’)/

P.S.: A 6% increase in stats is not a threadmill, especially as you can do everything in this game with exotic gear. Its a reward for dedicated and long time players. If you dont want to grind, dont do it, its not a necessity.

None of the rings costs 20 for starters. The lowest is 30L

confuzzled the ring and MF laurel prices, my bad there x.x
ok so one ring per month. Thank god i got mine in 12 lvl 10+ fractal runs

greetz (‘-’)/

I give ANet a pass on ascended gear because it was supposed to be in the game at launch and they did not have time to add it.

Should they add a next tier, I will not be as forgiving.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

You may lack understanding of what a gear treadmill really is.

You mean when they release an expansion with a level cap increase before you’ve even managed to finish a set of gear via laurels?

Vorch.2985:

I give ANet a pass on ascended gear because it was supposed to be in the game at launch and they did not have time to add it.

Should they add a next tier, I will not be as forgiving.

They won’t add another quality tier; they’ll just increase the level cap. It’s actually worse than adding another tier, IMO, since at least with extra tiers the previous tiers still hold some value; level cap increases usually render any classic gear useless.

I see with have mixed views here on what vertical progression is.

I thought at it’s most basic point vertical progression was when one needs to grind either it be money, tokens,dungeons,etc…. to get a specific armor/weapon set that would provide better stats making them more efficient.

No grind here for me. I can totally ignore this treadmill all together since there is no ascended gear with heal/toughness/power. /dodged a bullet

Hey, the complete set will be released incrementally throughout the year, and once they rolled it out, we will see how many people still complain about new gear tiers, and how many will have gotten used to the progression. Provided the acceptance is high enough at Christmas 2013, ANet will once again have the option to bless the game with even more gear. Why do you think they explicitly only mentioned that they won’t be introducing new gear in 2013?

Lvl 80+ ascended gear ahoy!

I will never have ascended gear. Hard to find a group for lvl 1, been looking for 4 days now and no dice. Almost had a party but moment I warned them I have not even been in FotM yet; I was told I was a worthless scrub and then promptly booted. Awsome awsome direction they went here. Bang up job.

ASB.4295:

Hey, the complete set will be released incrementally throughout the year, and once they rolled it out, we will see how many people still complain about new gear tiers, and how many will have gotten used to the progression. Provided the acceptance is high enough at Christmas 2013, ANet will once again have the option to bless the game with even more gear. Why do you think they explicitly only mentioned that they won’t be introducing new gear in 2013?

Lvl 80+ ascended gear ahoy!

I can’t believe people actually think ascended items “bless the game with even more gear”. New traits and skills is content. New armor skins is content. Ascended items with higher stats that, once acquired by everyone after hundreds of hours of grinding, makes the gameplay no different as if everyone still had full exotics, is not content. It is unimaginative filler.

Czar Peter.7961:

I can’t believe people actually think ascended items “bless the game with even more gear”. New traits and skills is content. New armor skins is content. Ascended items with higher stats that, once acquired by everyone after hundreds of hours of grinding, makes the gameplay no different as if everyone still had full exotics, is not content. It is unimaginative filler.

They are different types of content satisfying different kinds of player needs. Skins and titles are meaningless(or just the kind of filler you think gear is) to a fair number of people who want to be rewarded with equipment that is superior to their old, not just subjectively(skin) but objectively(stats). Don’t hate on peoples wishes.

We will see how big the retention rate will be once there is no new gear on the horizon, but for the coming months we will have a steadily paced gear progression keeping the IMO majority of players interested.

Grizledorf.5290:

Look dude before you bust out your pitchforks and rally all the hillbillies around to attack Frankenstein take a deep breath and realize. That number #1 people like getting new gear in these types of games. #2 Dailies aren’t a treadmill, they happen naturally while you play the game. #3 Go play any other game in this genre and see if you like the gear system better.

I don’t like response posts to single people, but I’m going to do it anyway.

1. Some people like new gear. This is a mutually exclusive benefit because there are plenty of people who hate new gear and the idea of constantly upgrading your characters and devaluing all your old equipment is abhorrent to others. This is well documented in feedback.

1. Combo kills in no way happen naturally while you play. Every single day I had to go out of my way to gather generic garbage for my daily. The amount of co-ordination required for combo kills for a lot of people is in no way natural to their play style.

1. Gear treadmills weren’t supposed to be in GW2. Just because GW2 isn’t as bad as other games doesn’t mean we have to accept it being bad in any way at all. It’s OK for people to expect better from ArenaNet that what they get from other people.

Correct me if I’m wrong (I don’t do Fractals), but isn’t the ascended gear offered by Laurels vendors just an alternative version (and thus means of acquisition) of something that’s already available in the game? If so, the gear treadmill began some time ago and is a 100% optional treadmill.

kKagari.6804:

Well, they are going to convert your previous achievement points into Laurels at some stage, so I think its not as bad as you describe. I think you’d be able to get on character fully specced at least.

I sure hope you’re right, however, with the recent history so far that has not been the case. It’s no joke when it comes to rewards for time spent in this title. Seriously out of whack.

It’s great they have a new system, now if only they would add T6 mats (which one still needs for legendaries btw) to the laurels (I personally didn’t see anything about those).

And I hope the OP is right about never having to step foot in a fractal EVER because that’s how I feel about them, they don’t belong, where are my metas at?

They never said that’s how you obtain other pieces of gear.

Stop doing this. Every single freaking time this is mentioned people always assume that how you get ONE Piece of ascended gear is how you get the rest. Just shut up about stuff you know NOTHING about.

It’s just like when people found the recipe for ascended books/quivers and some idiots were saying you’d need 50 ectos for every single piece.

The AMULETS take 30 laurels. That’s it. Nothing else.

Grizledorf.5290:

Look dude before you bust out your pitchforks and rally all the hillbillies around to attack Frankenstein take a deep breath and realize. That number #1 people like getting new gear in these types of games. #2 Dailies aren’t a treadmill, they happen naturally while you play the game. #3 Go play any other game in this genre and see if you like the gear system better.

I’m opposed to a gear grind treadmill—it’s why I left WoW, among other reasons. But, since Anet has added vertical progression, I believe I like WoW’s take on it better. Anet is new to grindy games and really aren’t that good at it. I look at ascended gear and I see the mother of all gear grinds. With WoW, a new tier comes out, you hop on the treadmill and in a relatively short time you are geared up, PvP and PvE. It’s pretty simple and straightforward. Then you can relax a while till the next cycle begins. With Anet’s slow grind you always have that sword hanging over your head. Considering the grind here as it’s playing out, I think I prefer an easy and fast one.

When I came to GW2 and first reached 80 and max level gear I breathed a sigh of relief—I would never have to grind again—or so I thought. It is and continues to be a huge disappointment.

oops must correct myself they have a NEW RNG bag for T6 mats and the sole item that can purchased without an RNG effect from the laurel vendor is a obsidian shards.

exactly 0 lodestones. Can we remove RNG from this entirely please so it’s much faster easier for us to reach the goals of gearing alts? Thanks. 16 months because that 1 piece of gossamer or the 6th loadstone we need won’t drop is a little much.

All complaining aside I am quite surprised they added buffs to the vendor like xp coin mf and that they added 2 gear boxes instead of 1 per 5 laurels. That’s actually nice.

darkace.8925:

If so, the gear treadmill began some time ago and is a 100% optional treadmill.

It would be 100% optional if the only stat difference was agony resist. With the additional stat padding Anet saw fit to implement, as more pieces are released, upgrading to ascended gear becomes less and less optional.

I want everyone in this thread who is insisting that previous achievements will be turned into laurels to go back and read what was actually said by the Arena net dev and what’s on the web site:

Web Site Quote: Down the road, we’ll also be adding a reward structure to total achievement points.

The dev quote is in one of the threads here.

They will be adding a reward structure, meaning IT IS NEW, i.e. not based on laurels.

They are purposefully being very COY in their responses. They never specifically said we would be getting LAURELS for past achievements.

30 Laurels per Amulet is too much. You can get only 1 per month wtf… + infusions extra month.

Raine.1394:

Grizledorf.5290:

Look dude before you bust out your pitchforks and rally all the hillbillies around to attack Frankenstein take a deep breath and realize. That number #1 people like getting new gear in these types of games. #2 Dailies aren’t a treadmill, they happen naturally while you play the game. #3 Go play any other game in this genre and see if you like the gear system better.

I’m opposed to a gear grind treadmill—it’s why I left WoW, among other reasons. But, since Anet has added vertical progression, I believe I like WoW’s take on it better. Anet is new to grindy games and really aren’t that good at it. I look at ascended gear and I see the mother of all gear grinds. With WoW, a new tier comes out, you hop on the treadmill and in a relatively short time you are geared up, PvP and PvE. It’s pretty simple and straightforward. Then you can relax a while till the next cycle begins. With Anet’s slow grind you always have that sword hanging over your head. Considering the grind here as it’s playing out, I think I prefer an easy and fast one.

When I came to GW2 and first reached 80 and max level gear I breathed a sigh of relief—I would never have to grind again—or so I thought. It is and continues to be a huge disappointment.

Your take on WOW’s treadmill is spot on what I see AN doing with their treadmill is how WoW was at launch Ascended gear grind looks remarkably like the MC/BWL loot treadmill and I wonder why that is…hint Mike O

Could someone link me to the direct quote or post stating there would be ways to gain Laurels through achievement points?

Peope said they wanted more variety to get ascended, here it is. WvW badges appear to be next month and after that I bet there will be a karma vendor as well.

Vorch.2985:

I give ANet a pass on ascended gear because it was supposed to be in the game at launch and they did not have time to add it.

Should they add a next tier, I will not be as forgiving.

Was this commented on prior to release? To my memory it wasn’t, at least not explicitly.

To me they stated it was always supposed to be there after the fact….
I’m not a conspiracy theorist but the introduction of ascended gear was done poorly (FotM only!? come on) and reeks more of a knee jerk reaction to a lack of end game perceived by many and the significant drop off of the player base.

they added a different way to get rings than fractals. What do you do? Complain about a “gear treadmill”. I have been doing my dailies since day 1 to get mystic coins to sell and karma. Now I get 1 reward point as well. 30 days from now I’ll buy a necklace.

SoPP.7034:

I’m not a conspiracy theorist but the introduction of ascended gear was done poorly (FotM only!? come on) and reeks more of a knee jerk reaction to a lack of end game perceived by many and the significant drop off of the player base.

If that’s what it looks like, it’s because that’s what it was.

Medazolam.3058:

Peope said they wanted more variety to get ascended, here it is. WvW badges appear to be next month and after that I bet there will be a karma vendor as well.

More variety not more effort to get if you think it takes you a month of farming FotM to get a piece of gear you’re mistaken.

Ansultares.1567:

SoPP.7034:

I’m not a conspiracy theorist but the introduction of ascended gear was done poorly (FotM only!? come on) and reeks more of a knee jerk reaction to a lack of end game perceived by many and the significant drop off of the player base.

If that’s what it looks like, it’s because that’s what it was.

Occam’s razor or Latin lex parsimoniae…. It states that among competing hypotheses, the one that makes the fewest assumptions should be selected.

Vorch.2985:

I give ANet a pass on ascended gear because it was supposed to be in the game at launch and they did not have time to add it.

Should they add a next tier, I will not be as forgiving.

Something completely counter intuitive to 5 years of development, against their core philosophy of no grind for max stat gear and that being available trough many means in the game, held secret from the public… then without warning released in only one place with only one way of obtaining it.
And you believe this stuff?

Laurels are just damage control.

Also just by pointing out that “there wont be a new tier above ascended this year” they ve made it very clear in what direction this game is going.

As a self-admitted altaholic, this essentially destroys my desire to continue this style of playing. The joke that is the laurel rewards reaffirms Anet’s decision that Fractals is the only viable means of getting ascended gear. And even getting it through Fractals is (aside from RNG luck) a 160 day “adventure” just to get rings (10 days worth of dailies x 2 rings x 8 professions), which is a complete slap in the face to the ideas of ‘no gear grind’ and alts being an encouraged endgame/playstyle. This number triples for those of us that thought getting Ascended gear outside of Fractals was going to be an actual option. Jokes on us, and it’s not a very funny one.

Before Nov 16th, my intentions were to have multiple characters of at least some professions. A way to have multiple builds without filling a character’s inventory with 3 full sets of gear, and giving more race/gender options for armor styles (I consider myself somewhat of an ‘armor collector’). I had hoped that after acknowledging the ridiculous grind of Ascended gear back in Nov, Anet would make this a viable option again. After this update, I see that Anet has no intentions of making max/‘best in slot’ gear accessible for even a single character, let alone someone enjoys playing all 8 of them. It is extremely discouraging to know that by the time I could get the current Ascended gear pieces for 1-2 characters, the next set of pieces (earrings, I assume) will already be added. It’s a treadmill that is going to be leaving people behind for months, or even years for us altaholics.

I really don’t want to do Fractals every day, or much at all honestly. I’ve done about 30 of them, and while there a several I do like, there are also several that I hope to never see again for various reasons. I certainly don’t want to them daily for the next 160 days in order to get rings for my current characters.

While I’m no hardcore dungeon runner, I do like the other dungeons. The rewards are nice, mostly optional (some stats need to be added to crafting/karma vendors), and you can get a full set of armor in about 20 runs. This can be reduced down to 7 days (each path once before DR starts reducing rewards, if I recall right) if you want to focus on it. If I’m not doing speed runs (which I/my guild do not), this is 10-20 hours of gameplay for an armor look/style. Even if it did take the 10-30 days per piece of ascended gear, it would only matter for the stats not available in crafting. There is a huge difference in having gear available with 7-20 days’ effort that has a unique style or fits a more niche stat distribution, and having gear that takes many months to get for a “required” boost in stats. While it’s true that nothing is really “required”, game balance can be expected to be based off of max/best gear, which is currently Ascended gear.

This being said, I have no intentions of chasing the carrot Anet has decided to dangle in front of me. I will not be supporting their decisions to add this first step onto the gear treadmill. I suggest those of you that feel the same way about ascended gear do the same. Let their precious metrics show them all of the out-geared alts that are left behind, sitting under the balance curve of new content and outclassed in wvw.

I do enjoy the gameplay GW2 has, and I do not plan on leaving…yet. Although recent changes have greatly discouraged my previuos intentions of contintuing as a long-term player.

If indeed there is a ‘gear treadmill’, it is not created by ANet, it’s created by players who come into gw2 with mentalities from other games.

Yes, it is going to take you a long time to get these things. It’s MEANT TO. You’re not supposed to be spending every waking minute working towards a goal of a full ascended set. That is such a small part of the game. You can only work towards it little by little because if you didn’t it would be a gear treadmill. ANet have done what they can to satisfy everyone, and still not turn the game into a clone of other mmo gear grinders.

You are supposed to play the game. Enjoy the game. Make friends, explore the world become good players. Along the way you’re going to pick up points and tokens and a bunch of other stuff, then, one day you’re going to realise that you can buy something with these things. I say ‘buy’ for want of a better word, the game owes you nothing for giving you enjoyment, just like ANet itself owes you nothing. But still, they give, and you can get better gear. It’s there if you want it. It is not necessary by definition in game. The only people that make it so are the players who look down on other players for not having the gear.

Solution: everyone needs to realise this is a game, not a living. It’s a game, if you don’t enjoy playing, it’s probably not the game for you. If you do, then play it! Don’t turn it into full time employment and look down on others when their ‘fun’ isn’t as hardcore or powerful as yours.

Praxis.4976:

If indeed there is a ‘gear treadmill’, it is not created by ANet, it’s created by players who come into gw2 with mentalities from other games.

Yes, it is going to take you a long time to get these things. It’s MEANT TO. You’re not supposed to be spending every waking minute working towards a goal of a full ascended set. That is such a small part of the game. You can only work towards it little by little because if you didn’t it would be a gear treadmill. ANet have done what they can to satisfy everyone, and still not turn the game into a clone of other mmo gear grinders.

You are supposed to play the game. Enjoy the game. Make friends, explore the world become good players. Along the way you’re going to pick up points and tokens and a bunch of other stuff, then, one day you’re going to realise that you can buy something with these things. I say ‘buy’ for want of a better word, the game owes you nothing for giving you enjoyment, just like ANet itself owes you nothing. But still, they give, and you can get better gear. It’s there if you want it. It is not necessary by definition in game. The only people that make it so are the players who look down on other players for not having the gear.

Solution: everyone needs to realise this is a game, not a living. It’s a game, if you don’t enjoy playing, it’s probably not the game for you. If you do, then play it! Don’t turn it into full time employment and look down on others when their ‘fun’ isn’t as hardcore or powerful as yours.

Wrong in so many ways.

First, players can never create a gear treadmill. That’s all on the game developers.

Second, As for the better gear not being necessary, did you miss the fact that PvP is a HUGE part of this game? Many players play this JUST for the PvP. Sure, the extra stats on better gear may not be that big a deal in WvW, but you can bet your kitten it is in anything more structured. And for that matter, if you really think it doesn’t matter, please tell me you do all your playing in just plain old white gear. After all, every quality level better only adds a few stats, surely it’s not necessary?

Thirdly, getting top-stat gear was always easy in GW1. That’s the spirit of the game. That’s one of the things that set it apart and made it attractive to those of us who are sick and tired of having to waste hours on end just to get the gear needed to run the content we want to run. Even exotic gear takes way too much time to acquire in this game. Seriously. No gear in GW2 should have better stats than rare quality gear. Exotic and Ascended gear should be different in appearance only. There’s already a billion and one MMORPGs out there that allow you to keep grinding and replacing gear forever, why on earth would you want that crap in GW2? So it’s just another run-of-the-mill MMORPG, except with chaotic group PvE instead of a trinity? Because that’s what it’s rapidly turning into.

I, for one, will not put up with ANY more vertical progression of any kind in GW2. Higher levels, another level of better gear, and I’m gone. Just like that. I’ve been there done that in way too many other games, and I’m DONE with gear grinds. They’ve already assured they won’t see any more money from me for a long while until I can be 100% sure they’re not going to screw it up further.

DocHolliday.5921:

Wrong in so many ways.

First, players can never create a gear treadmill. That’s all on the game developers.

Second, As for the better gear not being necessary, did you miss the fact that PvP is a HUGE part of this game? Many players play this JUST for the PvP. Sure, the extra stats on better gear may not be that big a deal in WvW, but you can bet your kitten it is in anything more structured. And for that matter, if you really think it doesn’t matter, please tell me you do all your playing in just plain old white gear. After all, every quality level better only adds a few stats, surely it’s not necessary?

Thirdly, getting top-stat gear was always easy in GW1. That’s the spirit of the game. That’s one of the things that set it apart and made it attractive to those of us who are sick and tired of having to waste hours on end just to get the gear needed to run the content we want to run. Even exotic gear takes way too much time to acquire in this game. Seriously. No gear in GW2 should have better stats than rare quality gear. Exotic and Ascended gear should be different in appearance only. There’s already a billion and one MMORPGs out there that allow you to keep grinding and replacing gear forever, why on earth would you want that crap in GW2? So it’s just another run-of-the-mill MMORPG, except with chaotic group PvE instead of a trinity? Because that’s what it’s rapidly turning into.

I, for one, will not put up with ANY more vertical progression of any kind in GW2. Higher levels, another level of better gear, and I’m gone. Just like that. I’ve been there done that in way too many other games, and I’m DONE with gear grinds. They’ve already assured they won’t see any more money from me for a long while until I can be 100% sure they’re not going to screw it up further.

All excellent points, couldn’t have said it better myself. However I wouldn’t go so far as to say I would not put up with any more vertical progression. I’ll keep playing if they keep all future (inevitable) vertical progression out of sPvP AND WvW.